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rmdm94
03-25-2009, 12:42 AM
Today I saw other Lawn Care company putting off-road diesel in their truck. He saw me looking at him funny and simply said his truck runs better with the red diesel. He then asked me if I do it and I said " No, Its illegal" He than quickly finishes and leaves. Would you turn him in? Ive never seen His rig before and have no clue who he is other than the name on His rig.

robct
03-25-2009, 12:44 AM
No it's not your job to turn him in, he'll get caught himself if the DOT stops him

Grits
03-25-2009, 12:53 AM
No it's not your job to turn him in, he'll get caught himself if the DOT stops him

Agree.
It is funny that he said it runs better on the red diesel. Isn't it the same as on-road diesel, but with a red dye.

nosparkplugs
03-25-2009, 12:54 AM
Karma will get folks like this, I have been checked to many times in the last three years buy the Tennessee Department of Weight & Measures the officers are very patient and were waiting at my truck while were had been mowing the Pipe Line. I role legally:usflag: not worth the $1,000 penalty per gallon here.

Sure you can turn them in; however he will know it's you that did it should he get caught. I only wish Karma worked faster:hammerhead:


Or you could just claim your running used ATF additive package for cost savings:rolleyes:



Today I saw other Lawn Care company putting off-road diesel in their truck. He saw me looking at him funny and simply said his truck runs better with the red diesel. He then asked me if I do it and I said " No, Its illegal" He than quickly finishes and leaves. Would you turn him in? Ive never seen His rig before and have no clue who he is other than the name on His rig.

4.3mudder
03-25-2009, 12:58 AM
Red dye and no highway tax is the only difference, which can be sometimes 50 cents less.

Synergy Ground
03-25-2009, 01:01 AM
No, It's not your job to be turning people in. As for running better, in the 80's, off-road fuel had a higher sulfur content and did run a little smoother in the old diesels. Todays Diesel is all the same. There is zero difference in any of it. Todays off-road fuel is simply died red. This dye is extreme, it will stain the internal engine parts, injectors, pumps, etc... If he takes his truck to the shop for repairs, it will only be a matter of time before he gets nailed. However, I don't blame them for running it.

South Florida Lawns
03-25-2009, 01:18 AM
my friend does that every other day of the year in his ford. He put diesel from his shop in his 5.7 hemi when it was almost empty and made it home a few times.

nosparkplugs
03-25-2009, 01:19 AM
Man surly someone will jump in, and argue that ULSD & Off-road diesel are NOT the same fuels:rolleyes:. I love those folks whom think Sulfur is a lubricant.

The process that removes Sulfur in ULSD also removes some of the natural lubricating properties of ULSD. :cry:

I just add about 1 quart of 2-stoke TC-W3 outboard engine lube, per 40 gallons of diesel, for added insurance. The extra "black" smoke works great on the tail gaters or "ricers":laugh:

nosparkplugs
03-25-2009, 01:22 AM
Dude I want to call total BS on that story:clapping::laugh:


my friend does that every other day of the year in his ford. He put diesel from his shop in his 5.7 hemi when it was almost empty and made it home a few times.

Synergy Ground
03-25-2009, 01:26 AM
Im no expert, but we purchase 1,500 Gallons of On-Road and 2,500 Gallons of Off-Road every week on average. We've had the same supplier for more than 10 years and we have had this conversation with them many times. They claim all of the fuel is exact, no difference. They sort out there supply, and add the dye. No tax on Red, Tax on the Green. Maybe you know best, but I'm just telling you what we have been told from several fuel suppliers, and our most recent of 8 years.

nosparkplugs
03-25-2009, 01:29 AM
I agree with you 100%, but their are still some hard core diesel folks whom swear their suppliers are still selling high Sulfur off-road diesel in certain parts of the country still to date period.



Im no expert, but we purchase 1,500 Gallons of On-Road and 2,500 Gallons of Off-Road every week on average. We've had the same supplier for more than 10 years and we have had this conversation with them many times. They claim all of the fuel is exact, no difference. They sort out there supply, and add the dye. No tax on Red, Tax on the Green. Maybe you know best, but I'm just telling you what we have been told from several fuel suppliers, and our most recent of 8 years.

Synergy Ground
03-25-2009, 01:34 AM
Maybe so but I have reason to believe they are misinformed. I wish I could find the Old Fuel as it "Did" run better in the older John Deere's and Fords. You could smell the Sulfur cooking pulling a heavy 6 bottom plow.

ALLPro Landscaping
03-25-2009, 01:49 AM
No their is a big difference, Im not sure what, but I have put it in my 6.0 and boy I get hell of better millage and the truck idles smoother and runs better

Fox Lawn & Garden
03-25-2009, 07:10 AM
Try using some white kerosene instead of OR diesel.

kaferhaus
03-25-2009, 08:32 AM
They do still refine high sulfur diesel fuel. However you cannot buy it at a gas station or from a fuel dealer.

The high sulphur diesel is used in ships and power plants (small ones). The epa banned production of the high sulphur diesel for use in anything other than seaborne vessels and stationary equipment (with exhaust scrubbers) years ago.

The stuff you can pump at the gas station or get delivered to you is all the same except the color.

ALC-GregH
03-25-2009, 08:39 AM
No their is a big difference, Im not sure what, but I have put it in my 6.0 and boy I get hell of better millage and the truck idles smoother and runs better

Maybe it's the red dye in there that makes it run better. :D

AI Inc
03-25-2009, 08:42 AM
Maybe it's the red dye in there that makes it run better. :D

Could be, when I eat red peppers I seam to fart more then with green peppers.

ProTouch Groundscapes
03-25-2009, 09:20 AM
i always keep an eye out for the green ULSD sticker on the pumps when i fill up, but on our way back from Michigan once, we pulled over at a rest area and went to fill up but the pump still had the red LSD sticker so we went to the next stop and that had ULSD. How do the semis run on the new ULSD? I thought pre 07 diesels had to put an additive b/c of the lower lubricity of the ULSD.

I fill up from the Pilot station close to my house, only ULSD and is always about 20 cents cheaper than the in town stations.

ExtExc
03-25-2009, 11:15 AM
No their is a big difference, Im not sure what, but I have put it in my 6.0 and boy I get hell of better millage and the truck idles smoother and runs better

placebo effect. :rolleyes:

All Seasons Landscaping
03-25-2009, 12:22 PM
We've had the same supplier for more than 10 years
...
what we have been told from several fuel suppliers, and our most recent of 8 years.

Wait, what? haha :rolleyes:

Kennedy Landscaping
03-25-2009, 01:09 PM
What a moron thinking it runs better that way. Its just a red dye. Oh well his time will come and he will get caught.

mag360
03-25-2009, 02:57 PM
my friend does that every other day of the year in his ford. He put diesel from his shop in his 5.7 hemi when it was almost empty and made it home a few times.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

South Florida Lawns
03-25-2009, 04:10 PM
Dude I want to call total BS on that story:clapping::laugh:

I thought so too but thats how he messed up that engine. Now he bought a powerstroke and runs the same fuel they use for the construction equip. at his work.

Duffster
03-25-2009, 04:25 PM
No their is a big difference, Im not sure what, but I have put it in my 6.0 and boy I get hell of better millage and the truck idles smoother and runs better

Maybe...In that 6.9 you claim they put in the Fords in '03:dizzy:

Pietro
03-25-2009, 08:59 PM
You can get #2 heating oil in a diesel truck. That is high sulfer stuff. I didnt know they stop pickups in other states. The DOT here just checks Semi's. Its hard to get off road diesel in NJ. You gotta have a permit for the tank, and it must be double walled and blah blah. We have oil heat in the house, but they wont deliver off road diesel to that tank because its not meant for it. The heating oil works great in my toro diesel thou, I can vouch for that.

topsites
03-25-2009, 09:06 PM
It's against the law to run Off-road fuel in an on-road vehicle, all I need to know.

Duffster
03-25-2009, 09:49 PM
You can get #2 heating oil in a diesel truck. That is high sulfer stuff. I didnt know they stop pickups in other states. The DOT here just checks Semi's. Its hard to get off road diesel in NJ. You gotta have a permit for the tank, and it must be double walled and blah blah. We have oil heat in the house, but they wont deliver off road diesel to that tank because its not meant for it. The heating oil works great in my toro diesel thou, I can vouch for that.

Last I knew #2 Heating Oil was the same as #2 Off Road

Pietro
03-26-2009, 01:38 PM
It says its #2 high sulfer heating oil on the bill.

luckylawnboy
03-27-2009, 12:00 AM
Off Road diesel and On road diesel have different PPM and yes you will get better mileage with Red Fuel. ULSD is 15 PPM vs 500PPM basicly todays Off Road diesel is pre emmision 06 Diesel a few years ago. Thats why newer Diesel with DPM can not run Off Road Diesel. It will clog up the emmision control Diesel Particulate filters. I pulled Campers for a wile and different fuels give different power and different mpg. Winter additives decrease mpg by 1-2mpg. Winter ULSD vs Off road can yield 4mpg difference. Before you guys knock each other get your facts straight. Oh by the way I had a guy put 15 gallons of diesel in a gas V-10 dodge and it still ran. Ran crappy but ran. Had to run fuel injector cleaner and a few tanks before it was back to normal.

nosparkplugs
03-28-2009, 01:42 AM
Those are good points; however it still remains true the EPA does not have it straight yet:dizzy: diesel fuel quality still varies from refinery to refinery. Depending on you location & refinery ULSD & off-road have close PPM. Testing shows PPM varies between stock, and in 2010 ALL off-road diesel will be ULSD or 15PPM. Off-road diesel is closer to ULSD as of 2007 per sulfur PPM. The Marine or locomotive off-road diesel fuel is SUPER DIRTY very high sulfur, and would qualify as "your" pre-2006 off-road diesel fuel.

http://www.epa.gov/nonroad-diesel/2004fr/420r04007f.pdf


Off Road diesel and On road diesel have different PPM and yes you will get better mileage with Red Fuel. ULSD is 15 PPM vs 500PPM basicly todays Off Road diesel is pre emmision 06 Diesel a few years ago. Thats why newer Diesel with DPM can not run Off Road Diesel. It will clog up the emmision control Diesel Particulate filters. I pulled Campers for a wile and different fuels give different power and different mpg. Winter additives decrease mpg by 1-2mpg. Winter ULSD vs Off road can yield 4mpg difference. Before you guys knock each other get your facts straight. Oh by the way I had a guy put 15 gallons of diesel in a gas V-10 dodge and it still ran. Ran crappy but ran. Had to run fuel injector cleaner and a few tanks before it was back to normal.

SouthSide Cutter
03-28-2009, 07:38 AM
There is a difference in the fuel. We ran one fuel from a company in the summer and one from CO-OP during the winter. All summer the dozers had no power and always had to change the fuel filters. With the other we never changed the filters and the power came back.
We burnt maybe 18,000 gals a month. I ask the dealer of the good fuel one day about this. He said CountryMark (CO-OP), Sunoco and I think Marathon all had the same diesel and the C rating was better on it. Told some of my friends this and they switched from what they were using and got better fuel mileage.
I always buy fuel this way, use a high volumn station, never buy from one in a low spot.
Around here most brands come from same terminals.
I have always bought from Pilot, Love, BP, Sun, CO-OP, but for a while I run off road at a local station. Change and do all my filters and service myself. Fuel filters always look new just wet. Well after using the off road they were black and I mean black. Dont know where it came from but stopped using it and it took awhile but it cleared back up.
All fuel is not the same trust me.

grass-scapes
03-28-2009, 10:15 AM
The dot can even test the percentage of Red dyed diesel in your on road vehicle. That means even if you run a little bit in each tank to save a few bucks, you can still be caught.

AND.....
When you get caught, you will pay an initial fine. Then, the State Department of revenue will send you a bill for each and every gallon they think you might have used for 1 year back. If they think you use 50 gallons per week per vehicle, you will get a bill for the taxes for 50 gallons x 52 x number of diesel vehicles in your name or company name. Doesn't matter if it was the only time you did it and got caught.

Then.....
They will notify the FEDS and they will send you a bill for taxes. And both the state and the IRS will levy penalties and interest.

I have heard of a small lawn company with 2 trucks owing a hundred thousand dollars in fines and taxes due to off road diesel. needless to say, they lost everything to save 50 cents a gallon.

vinny69
03-28-2009, 10:33 AM
my friend does that every other day of the year in his ford. He put diesel from his shop in his 5.7 hemi when it was almost empty and made it home a few times.

oh ya,diesel in a gas engine:drinkup::drinkup::hammerhead::hammerhead::laugh::laugh::nono::nono:

Duffster
03-28-2009, 10:38 AM
The dot can even test the percentage of Red dyed diesel in your on road vehicle. That means even if you run a little bit in each tank to save a few bucks, you can still be caught.

AND.....
When you get caught, you will pay an initial fine. Then, the State Department of revenue will send you a bill for each and every gallon they think you might have used for 1 year back. If they think you use 50 gallons per week per vehicle, you will get a bill for the taxes for 50 gallons x 52 x number of diesel vehicles in your name or company name. Doesn't matter if it was the only time you did it and got caught.

Then.....
They will notify the FEDS and they will send you a bill for taxes. And both the state and the IRS will levy penalties and interest.

I have heard of a small lawn company with 2 trucks owing a hundred thousand dollars in fines and taxes due to off road diesel. needless to say, they lost everything to save 50 cents a gallon.

That don't make any sense

even if they where big rigs @6mpg x 600 miles a day x 250 days a year x 2 trucks can only burn 50k gals in a year

Kinda tough to say they owe a 100k in taxes:hammerhead:

grass-scapes
03-28-2009, 10:46 AM
That don't make any sense

even if they where big rigs @6mpg x 600 miles a day x 250 days a year x 2 trucks can only burn 50k gals in a year

Kinda tough to say they owe a 100k in taxes:hammerhead:


Obviously you have never dealt on this level with the irs. I forgot to file one piece of paperwork on time and my fine and penalty were 2 times what the original cost was. Then you have the state, then the DOT. And for each month you don't pay it, you owe more. By the time its all said and done, its very feasible.

It may have been more than 2 trucks though. This came straight from a DOT officers mouth so it must be taken with a grain of salt.

Moral of the story is if you get caught, its more than just DOT fines you have to worry about.