look out the val packs are out

[LJ lawn]

just got one of those "val pack" coupon packets in the mail today,must be 5 LCO's in there .each one givin' away something for free.as in "3 free lawn cuts with seasonal agreement" or "first 2 fert apps FREE with contract" blah,blah,blah.things must be getting rough out there.can't wait to see the free total lawn fert package for every new client ad.then i'll know for sure the market has gone to heck.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

ROTFLMAO

At a 20% profit margin, who in their right mind would give 10% away?

2 free apps, hahahahahahahaha. I hope they juiced their prices up.

This is a good reason NOT to use Val-Pac's.

I am glad I changed my mind and decided not to use them.

Although I haven't seen one LCO advertise in a coupon mailer yet this year. Saw one tree service.

[lbmd1]

LGF,
why would you be rolling on the floor laughing your a#@ off about a guy discounting or giving free things away in a val pak, when in another post where someone was charging less than half the going rate for aerations that might lead to other work, you call it creative marketing? Which one is it?

[LAWNGODFATHER]

You don't give away a low profit service.

You don't give away a service that has material costs.

Aeration I didn't agree that he should have given it away like that, but it seemed to suit his expectations to aquiring his clientel.

Also if you read and not just skimmed through, there was a reason he did it that way.

Go back and see if you can find it, I know I pointed it out.

Discounting service is one thing but plain out giving them away, big NO NO.

I had my coupons, they were all rewording, not giving anything away at all.

[Nebraska]

If your talking about the article in L&L he marketed his price for aeration half the price of the "going rate" and did this during an estimate, eliminating any free estimate what so ever. Looks like he has been quite sucessful in growing his business using this method. Nothing wrong with giving a "try it before you buy it" offer to attempt to differentiate yourself or break into a new market.

[Jason Pallas]

That's great - devalue the service as much as possible - then we can all work for free - or better yet maybe we can pay people to cut their lawns!!! This industry has to try to ban together and start acting like professionals (like the ones most us us are). I'll start discounting my services when I get an advertisement from my dentist that has a coupon for a free teeth cleaning with the purchase of 2 others.
My point - respect yourself, respect your time and labor and then you'll have the customers respect the industry. It helps us all. Otherwise we'll all be cutting lawns for free. These types of marketing approaches do a huge disservice to the industry and ultimately keep the profit margins at a minimum.

[Nebraska]

Read the article again. It is working for him. It is in last months Lawn and Landscape.

[Jason Pallas]

Oh I'm not saying they don't work - they really do. What I'm saying is that by giving away service or greatly discounting it, you depreciate the value of the service. The service is only worth what you value it at - and if you place a value of "Free" on the service - that's what the customers are going to expect - so get used to working for nothing.
There's a service industry rule - you don't ever discount labor - and since most of our work is labor, discounting it really undermines the development of this profession as a profession.

[proline32]

Exactly, The paint indusrty has had this problem for years and recently you'll find that paint contractors on a whole( especially professional ones) are getting together and forming associations to discuss these issues and raise the level of professionallism and thier profits.. It only does good when everybody does well.

As for giving away freebees, Today I had to "fire" a customer.... She sends me a letter complaining about the fact that I charged her for the rental fee for an extended hedge trimmer that I rented and then accused me of not even performing the service and whines that last year I gave her some of these services for free. ( which I did and regret it.) and wants to know why I am charging her for it this year. Basicly I sent her check back for the service and informed her that I will not work for a customer who implies that I cheated on the service and do not feel that I have to defend myself for the services I performed and that I have dropped her from my list. I no longer will give anything away for free just to try to encourage business, what pisses me off is that this customer only looked at the cost for one friggin hedge trimming service and thinks I ripped her off. As far as I'm concerned, she can mow her own yard.

Fellow LCO's ......... Please don't give anything away for free, you may think it will help you gain business But then the customer expects it from you all the time and you are screwed.... If you write an estimate for a customer make sure they understand that no other services are offered and that a seperate estimate will be written for ANY service requested.

[Nebraska]

Have you guys read the article? If not look it up and read it.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Originally posted by proline32

As for giving away freebees, Today I had to "fire" a customer.... She sends me a letter complaining about the fact that I charged her for the rental fee for an extended hedge trimmer that I rented and then accused me of not even performing the service and whines that last year I gave her some of these services for free. ( which I did and regret it.) and wants to know why I am charging her for it this year. Basicly I sent her check back for the service and informed her that I will not work for a customer who implies that I cheated on the service and do not feel that I have to defend myself for the services I performed and that I have dropped her from my list. I no longer will give anything away for free just to try to encourage business, what pisses me off is that this customer only looked at the cost for one friggin hedge trimming service and thinks I ripped her off. As far as I'm concerned, she can mow her own yard.

Fellow LCO's ......... Please don't give anything away for free, you may think it will help you gain business But then the customer expects it from you all the time and you are screwed.... If you write an estimate for a customer make sure they understand that no other services are offered and that a seperate estimate will be written for ANY service requested.

First I would like to say, you did not imform your client of the extra fee, so she was in the right. That's if you did it for the same price and added the fee on. Then It's her fault for not asking a price up front, it can go on and on.

Second, the rest of your post says the entire reason for the whole give services away for free BS.

Don't give a thing away, that guy with the aeration ordeal, used that service to give estimates for his bread and butter services and to still get paid for the estimate. It's a one in a million thing.

If you want to do coupons, be creative, these guys giving 3 free mowings away have to figure it will take them 6-8 more mowings after to make up for the 3 freebies. That's at least 9-10 cuttings for no profit.

Don't give the service away, if you discount it, it has to be made up some where.

[toby]

Do you really think your getting a free pizza when you buy 2 for 1?
These guys arn't giving away free services, they make it up elsewhere.
Ever hear of marketing ploys? Yea they work because SOME people actually believe they're going to get something for nothing. Seems even experienced LCO's believe the hype.

[lbmd1]

Excellent post Jason! My point being whether its the aerating guy or not discounting, all we do is degrade our service pricing standards for the sake of short term market share. Isn't that what everyone complains about with TG\CL? Sure they may be number #1, but for how long? And what about their financials and customer service? Do we want the whole industry summed up with them at the helm? When Jason said " These types of marketing approaches do a huge disservice to the industry and ultimately keep the profit margins at a minimum", he is absolutely correct. My point with the aeration guy was this, if you're an established LCO and know the going rate for a service is say $90, why would you cut that price in half to a customer just for more market share or as a lead in for possible future work when the customer already knows the going price for that service is $90. Now you have just lowered the standard industry wage for that service just for your own satisfaction. Now that guy with the aeration only business who charges full price (with no problem) who has an investment in his equipment, employees livelihoods, customer education and retention he's built upon, is now in the shi#$er because this one guy that wants to personally gain his areas' market share has decided that instead of taking the time to market it right and get his own customers, he's taken the easy way out with creative marketing to lowball the other LCO's in the area. Nice example of our green industry future leaders. I'll stick with professional like Jason who keeps his standards high and if he loses some business by not discounting, so be it. At least he has some standards and morals. You know gentlemen, there are some things just as valuable as money and market share in business. Don't sell our industry short.

Mike

[Nebraska]

I would have to agree with some of the previous and disagree with some of the previous posts.

1 "pizza" free @ $40 in return for a season of pizza's @ $40 (30x) comes to a discount of 3%....Give away "pizza" for free to someone that only is going to buy one "pizza" and folks you have a 50% discount...

Translated to lawncare operations your ...consider the frequency of the service and the prospects who you are offering this "deal" to. Obviously you would not advertise this type of discount in a valu pak that blankets the city... On the other hand if you offer this to high high end residentials via direct marketing and specify the offer is only valid for the person the offer is addressed to, it could quite possibly be your only "foot" in the door. By offering it only to that specific person it does have a TON of VALUE. To blanket the city with a blind offer of a free mowing, free aeration, or free application is only inviting abuse and of course devalues the services. It all comes down to how the offer is marketed; blindly or directly.

[HBFOXJr]

I always have dull drill bits. One day in the shop a guy spent I don't know how long punching a hole through a piece of 3/16 plate. He wasn't real bright and working this hard showed he was too dumb to work for me because he was working hard and not smart. Other bits were available.

Needless to say he's no longer here. But what is here is Drill Dr. Those things you see in Northern hydraulics or other tool and stuff catalogs that you can't live without.

Normally Drill Dr. for up to 3/4" bits is in the $160-$180 range I think and then sometimes they DISCOUNT down a few bucks.

Well I saw one in a catalog about the dull bit time for $119-$123??? and I told my wife, git it.

So for once and only once she obeys the command and ole brown comes along shortly with the Dr. Now that was a genuine deal. Don't know what trick they had up their marketing sleeve but I haven't bought anything else.

Moral of the story. Drill Dr. works darn good and buy one soon as ya kin, if they're on sale.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

So what you said Harold was if it was cheap enough to try, some one would try it, that wouldn't normaly?

And may only try it once because it was less expensive?

Nebraska, I am glad you saw the point of the aeration guys marketing ploy.

[Nebraska]

Maybe I was like everyone else the first time I read it, it did not hit home...I probally walked away like most people did. It was my wife, who has shown interest in the business during this boring winter (no snow), that pointed out the strategy he was using. I caught her reading L&L one morning (imagine that! She choose L&L over her Bon Apetit and Eddie Bauer Catalog!)and she said something about the guy using aeration marketed directly to "high end clients" as a way to market the business and virtually eliminate the "free estimate" while pushing the whole program. Cater to the rich!

[lbmd1]

That's funny, I cater to the affluent almost exclusively and I've never had to explain much about pricing to them at all since most don't even ask. So then explain to me again why I would discount a service that they would normally pay full industry standard pricing for? And why resort to"marketing ploys" and lowballing services to get customers. Can't we as professionals gain clients through our quality of work, reputation, image and trust? I guess there are some that think that trickery is marketing and that giving "free estimates" is a big inconvenience. I actually enjoy going out on first estimates for clients to spend time getting to know them briefly, walking over their property and getting to know their wants and needs. What's the big marketing genius with leaving a bid behind while you're out lowballing a service to begin with? Is that suppose to impress me that he has saved so much time in going back if they called without the bid being left off? I guess we can all go back and forth from here on what marketing is. We all market to different clientele as well so what works for you in your market area would definetely not fly here. Most of the LCO's around here don't have to resort to these tactics, plenty of work on high end res's here that actually respect and treat an LCO like gold if they find a good one. Ask member "Site" from Stratham, NH. I've seen Chuck work on some of the million dollar homes right beside me. We all charge industry prices around here, still there's plenty of work, and not many scapers can break into our area even with low pricing. Someone who buys a Mercedes, Porsche or BMW's would not buy a Hyundai just because of the price no matter how enticing or slick the marketing. Even though they both get you from point A to point B, they buy them for quality, prestige, workmanship, image and their value. Professional landscapers have alot of those same qualities.

Mike

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Well I guess you work in a perfect world and no one else does.

Estimates take time, and that time is nonproductive unpaid time.

How do you get your foot in the door?

How much does it cost you to get new clients?

I can't belive peoples reading comprehension. Did you miss that it was a one time price? Did you miss he went from 0 to over a million in like 3 years? Did you miss he works in lowball heven?

Again I still disagree with the product, but the plan was successfull.

Now back to giving away "FREE" mowings and "FREE" applications.

Nebraska said it best.

consider the frequency of the service and the prospects who you are offering this "deal" to. Obviously you would not advertise this type of discount in a valu pak that blankets the city... On the other hand if you offer this to high high end residentials via direct marketing and specify the offer is only valid for the person the offer is addressed to, it could quite possibly be your only "foot" in the door. By offering it only to that specific person it does have a TON of VALUE. To blanket the city with a blind offer of a free mowing, free aeration, or free application is only inviting abuse and of course devalues the services. It all comes down to how the offer is marketed; blindly or directly.

[Sean Adams]

I want everyone to know I genuinely enjoyed reading this post that LawnGodFather pointed out to me. I have to admit that I did not read every single post to the end, but I think (hope) I understand all sides. The market and potential and existing clientele often dictate situations and offerings by all types of contractors. Professional, reliable, high quality service is important and often times will separate you from the rest. Talking to a business owner he made a very good comparison when it comes to utilizing "marketing ploys". He compared it to courting a beautiful woman. She has what every man wants. The problem is there are many men who wants what she has. Therefore, the man who makes the best first impression and goes out of his way to get her attention will often times win her over, even if he isn't the "best of the bunch". What this means is.... You can still be a respected professional business and tactfully apply different, unique, eye catching marketing strategies to get them to notice you, trust you, rely on you, and eventually befriend you. I think that those in this industry who make attempts to be creative and "fresh" with their approach will make some mistakes, and maybe even lose some money here and there. But in the end, they will catch that beautiful woman's eye and have a long productive relationship in the process. To stand by idle, knowing you look good, hoping the beautiful woman will approach you and court you based on your reputation alone...well, I think we have all been this foolish at one time or another.

Sean Adams

[bobbygedd]

i did a val pac mailer one year, hit 10000 homes, got 3 calls, got 2 jobs out of the 3 calls. the mailing cost me $600. waste of money. now, another year when we had a rough summer, i advertised for thatching +seeding, offered a "free" fert program for the following season with a thatch and seed now. it worked out awsome. not only did we make out great on the thatching intake, but the lawns looked great and alot of these people hired us to cut also. then the following season were more than happy to pay the fee for the fert program. worked good for me

[Nebraska]

p.s. I do have the perfect wife that's "out of my league" (if you know what I mean). Must of been the free pizza!

[LawnLad]

My thought has always been "Win 'em on price, loose 'em on price" If you want to sell price, then expect to loose a customer on price when the next guy comes along and offers a low price.

Marketing by price ALONE is lazy advertising - it isn't even marketing to your clients. Find and keep your customers with quality service and good employees.

How many employees have you lost over the years, not because you couldn't pay them enough, but because they didn't have job satisfaction? The relationship fit wasn't right? Pay to employees is not as important as other job factors. How is this different with customers?

I would rather have a reputation for charging too much, but being worthwhile, than being cheap/inexpensive. People weed themselves out before they call.

Look at price theory on perfume - classic marketing example. The more expensive the perfume and the more limited the quantity (Georgio, I think, when if first came out), the higher the demand and the higher the price. If you could buy cologne or perfume for $8.00 a bottle, what would you think? You expect to pay $60 or more.

If people doubt your abilities as a landscaper... RAISE YOUR PRICES. People will stop doubting, why? Because you must be worth it to charge those prices. Do yourself a favor though... just make sure you can back up the price with excellent service.

[lbmd1]

To answer a few questions that you posed LGF, here you go.

Do I live in a perfect world where no one else does. I have said before that I am lucky to have started my lco business here and have benefited greatly. We all know of Eric ELM's properties he maintains, ours are similar, does Eric offer free or discounted services or work in a perfect world too? Or does he rely on his laurels of finely manicured lawns and quality personalized service that he has created over the years to get new clients?

Prior to any marketing effort on my firms part, we have carefully and over the years created a niche in the maintenance end of offering impeccable services, bordering on being anal about lawn care. It didn't take slick offers, just more time spent on properties maintaining them, spending "unproductive" time talking to customers getting to know them personally. By getting to know your customers, you build a great trust, thus insuring the lack of any "lowball" penetration no matter how low. So by begining with a goal in mind of offering outstanding service, a natural following of great clients came thereafter.

How do I get my foot in the door?
I purchase a mailing list of newly purchased properties in my service area from the months of October to March thereby insuring that these newly moved people have not yet aquired an LCO. I then mail them a professionally designed mailer that shows our service offerings with no pricing listed or free/discounted offers. It's quite funny when they call and say how what a coincidence it is that I sent this mailer because they just moved into the area and hadn't yet aquired anyone for lawn services yet. This list of newly sold homes lists their names, where they were from, how much they paid and so on. Out of about 180 properties (with sale prices of over $750,000) on last year's list, we got 12 of them who called and signed up. There total sales for these 12 last year was around $27,000 alone, all paying full pricing on all services. Want to know what this list cost me? $90 plus $75 in postage and paperwork / time. Not a bad investment!

So there are your answers to our "Marketing" ploys. No tricks, free offers, discounted services. You speak of creative marketing from time to time, I beleive what we do is true creative marketing. Something that not many scapers do or know about. I think that free or discounted offers are a lazy mans way out to sell his services, but thats my opinion, it works for some I guess.

As for the aerating guy discounting his services. So what if it's a one time offer. Don't you think that an established LCO with 3mil in sales could find a creative way to gain sales without resorting to discounting services? If I had that much in sales, I'd probably have a little spare change in the advertising/marketing budget to attract new clients without discounting. Usually we see this resort tactic with newbies entering the field. Although TG\CL is also a master of this and we all know how we feel about them.

We grow our businesss slow trying to gain only quality clients. It can be done in any area of the country. Sure if I want to grow to $3 mil in a fast 3 years, I too could offer deals like this to get business fast. But I would rather work smarter and not harder retaining quality cleints as opposed to quantity. This works well for us, but may not for others. It funny, it doesn't bother me as much when a newbie entering the field uses discounts and freebies to get his feet wet. There's always room for new scapers. It's the big guys who have been around for awhile that bother me who have established businesses that resort to these tactics just for ego growth and more sales needed to offset low profit services due to their discounting in the first place.

[Nebraska]

I get this strange feeling no matter how long this one goes on the point will be overlooked...........................

[Nebraska]

in all your infinite wisdom......

[lbmd1]

That's funny Nebraska, I was thinking the same thing about others regarding your last 2 posts!

[Nebraska]

And your speaking from the experience of developing a million dollar company?

All that has been done is a TARGETED DIRECT MARKETING EFFORT SELLING QUALITY SERVICES WITH SOMETHING TO GRAB YOUR ATTENTION. Emphasis on something to grab the prospects attention. No low balling, no scrub, no newbie etc. Basic Marketing.

[Sean Adams]

Like I had mentioned in my last post.... Many times the area and clientele in which you live will determine the need for "marketing ploys". On top of that, every company is different in terms of what they expect or demand to charge and/or profit. For example, LBMD1 made mention of using direct mail (very effective) to new people moving into $750,000 homes. Of these approached, 12 becamse clients, paid full price for all services, and generated $27,000 of income. In many areas, that kind of pricing would be a marketing"ploy" in itself. That is on average, $2,250.00 per client. To provide full maintenace service for these types of clients, there may be other business owners out there that can or do provide the same high quality, but would easily charge $5,000 on average per client. What this means is every company is different and every company has a different idea of need in regard to what they desire to profit. Because of this, different approaches are utilized. In the end, all that matters, after getting the client to give you a chance, is how well you service that client, how long you retain that client, and how often that client refers you to their friends and colleagues. It's all about developing a relationship where everyone involves feels that they are being treated fair and reasonably.

Sean Adams

[Nebraska]

Reading this paper this evening before my family and I sat down for dinner and what do I notice?

Dell Computers: Buy this system for $695 and get a FREE printer.
Southwest Airlines: Friends fly FREE.
Cemetary Plots: 50% off all plots purchased by Memorial Day
Window Company: Save $225 or more on any style window replacement
High End Redwood Playsets (swing sets): Free Installation.
Qwest: First Month Free
Lasek Eye Surger: 1/2 price with sugery of both eyes.
Furniture Store: 70% off all Furniture
Large Grocery Chain: $50 Free Groceries if you transfer a prescription.

Have any of these companies devalued their services?

LawnLad My thought has always been "Win 'em on price, loose 'em on price" If you want to sell price, then expect to loose a customer on price when the next guy comes along and offers a low price. That would not apply to the type of marketing that the L&L article implies.

Eric?


We all know of Eric ELM's properties he maintains, ours are similar, does Eric offer free or discounted services or work in a perfect world too?

By getting to know your customers, you build a great trust, thus insuring the lack of any "lowball" penetration no matter how low. So by begining with a goal in mind of offering outstanding service, a natural following of great clients came thereafter.
Do you believe there is honestly something wrong with marketing the same message with "flair"?

Value pak is one thing. Direct target Marketing using methods to differentiate yourself is another. After that it's up to you to cultivate the client to keep them. Market, Cultivate, Retain.

[Commander]

I saw the best 2 in my pennysaver today. 1) somebody actually advertised for topping and 2) free snow plowing for 2002 - 2003 season when you sign up for a maintenance contract ($139 a month for mowing and clean-ups up to 1/2 acre)

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Originally posted by Commander
free toppings

Is that for how many and can I get sausage, italian sausage, pepperoni, mushroom, extra cheese, onion, green pepper, pineapple, ham, anchovies, thick crust, thin crust, hand tossed, and/or pan?


Can I have that delivered?

[plow kid]

I'll take a Large hand tossed with butter garlic crust with peperoni and bacon with extra cheese.~NaTe

BTW. Vitos in Toledo has the best pizza in that combo of topings.

[proline32]

Lawngodfather..... The customer called me to and asked me to do a real nice job on her yard and bushes because her husband was coming home from sea after 6 months..... She informed me to quote" do a real nice job and do what you feel is best and send me the bill...." I charged her the same amount that I did last year for the hedge trimming, but the difference is that I charged her the rental fee for an extended hedge trimmer since mine was broken and she KNEW that I would be renting a trimmer. She WANTED me to EAT the cost of the trimmer and charge her the same as last year , on top of that she acused me of not performing the trimming service and charging for it. All she had to do was looking in her compost pile and see the debris that I took off. So who is in the right? Look, there is more to this than meets the eye, her husband has been harping for months last year that he is considering discontinuing the service because he felt paying me to take care of thier lawn was to expensive and that he could do just as good of a job with a cheap mower and a black and decker trimmer, she was paying my bill out of her own pocket. When I first started back up for this year she didn't want me to do a spring clean up because her husband felt it was to expensive.
2) they cut me back from weekly mowing to mowing every two weeks,
3) I was scheduled to thatch the yard for them and she cancelled on that as well because her husband said the lawn didn't need it.

Do you see my point, There was no problem here until the husband returned home this time.... She didn't complain to me a few days after I did the service about the trimmer cost when I saw her in person.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

TELL HER SEE YOU LATER BYE-BYE!!

[scagman]

At the bottom of my spring flyers in a box I have:


SPRING SPECIAL 15% OFF YOUR SECOND BILL WITH OUR WEEKLY MOWING PACKAGE!

[Nebraska]

Be careful, creativity here will get you labeled as a "lowballer".;)

[scagman]

Call me a lowballer, I am the most expensive service in my area along with highest quality service. I could honestly care less if my little attention grabber is labeled as "lowballing" I think this whole lowballing deal is getting tiresome. I concentrate on more important things in this buisness, than some guy in a geo metro with a 21" murray offering $10.00 buzz cuts. You guys post all these pics and threads about "lowballers" Its pointless, you will see these guys as long as your in this buisness, so except it and move on to your next lawn. Their probably working as hard as we are to put food on the table. They just charge alot less, dont have a nice truck, trailer and equipment, but im sure they dream of it and will have it someday. I think they just dont realize the affect it has on this industry, but they will smarten up fast. Im sure some of you remember when you first started out, desperate for any jobs, giving an extemely low bid on a distasterous flowerbed and then kicking yourself in the head while doing it. I do.