premergent/what do you think?

[joevg]

hey guys new to the site but i got a question for all of you.

the premergent we are using is an anderson herbicide. its 12-0-9 with .125 demention i believe the spelling mite be wrong but i dont have a bag infront of me to look.

i am paying right around $19 a bag.

what do you guys think about it? has anyone used it? does the price seem right?

jjust looking for some info please thanks everyone.

[Think Green]

Joe,
I Surmise this is your home lawn. What is the target weed in question.?

[joevg]

this is our first step of our fertilizer/weed control program. its 12-0-4 40% uflexx with .125 dime. its a fertilizer with crabgrass premergent.

[mikesturf]

Is it your lawn its being applied too?

[j05h22]

Why won't someone answer this guys question without badgering him about whose yard its for. Everytime someone gets on and asks a question about what to apply the first 10 responses are people criticizing others for not having a license. Maybe it's just his house and he's not savvy on the applicator requirements, and maybe he just want a straight up answer without the bull sh----it. This site has amazing information but this particular forum is horrible.

[sciturfman]

The reason nobody wants to answer this guy is because everybody is sick and tired of unlicensed,law-breaking grasscutters trying to weasel in and do everything illegally!! Get a license after studying up and these questioins like this will never be asked. Why do we even have a license requirement if the law is not enforced?

[Volman]

You said it jo5h22. This site is designed to help not to be a ass about a non card carrying members. Yes. you would hope he has a certification if he's treating anothers yard, but your not the yard police.
To help answer your question, the price sounds pretty good. You can usually put down pre's cheaper in liquid form.

[joevg]

thanks volman appreicate the feedback. and to everyone else i am licensed in the state of iowa. didnt mean to cause a big problem i am new to the site and trying to get some good info.

[j05h22]

I'm going to school to get a degree in Turf management, and all I seem to read on this site is people ranting about licenses and insurance. I know how to get that stuff and when the time comes to start my business I will, but until then I like to read get on this site and compare what I've learned in school to what is happening in the world. But crap like this is the reason I never post anything, I just read

[turf hokie]

I'm going to school to get a degree in Turf management, and all I seem to read on this site is people ranting about licenses and insurance. I know how to get that stuff and when the time comes to start my business I will, but until then I like to read get on this site and compare what I've learned in school to what is happening in the world. But crap like this is the reason I never post anything, I just read

I understand where you are coming from, BUT once you get out of school and have student loans to pay, a business to run, licenses to maintain and pay for, a family to feed and a mortgage to pay. You will understand why a lot of guys get aggravated about non-licnesed applicators trying to glean our knowledge for free.

As far as the original question. Pricing varies too much by areas just based on trucking costs alone. But it does not sound out of the park either way.

All we use is dimension for our pre-emergents, you should be fine.

[redbuckcavs]

Joevg
I use Andersons 19-0-0 (19 % N compared to your 12%) and pay $14.50 per bag
However, I do use 15 skids

[turf hokie]

Joevg
I use Andersons 19-0-0 (19 % N compared to your 12%) and pay $14.50 per bag
However, I do use 15 skids

What % dimension is yours? Makes a big difference

[joevg]

yea i got mine and it has .125% dimension but i could have got the 19-0-0 but it had .105 dime. i went with the one with a lit more chemical in it cause we had a lot of crab grass pop up last year after the spring and i was told cause of all the rain we had last spring. should i have used or should i use the 19 next year?

[turf hokie]

I have used .09 & .10 in the past. This year because of issues that you stated plus we use split applications we are going with .13 and .15 this year. I think you made the right choice.

I dont like using high N in the spring, it only promotes growth which is bad for everyone

[joevg]

thanks guys for the advise i really appreciate it.

[mngrassguy]

I use a 19-0-0 w/.10 dim but I put it down twice at a lower rate like Turf Hokie suggests. I see very few breakthroughs. Your price seams about right for that product.

BTW, thanks Sciturfman. You are right. Promoting an illegal activity here is against LS policy too.

[Jaspell]

I agree with Joe. This particular sub forum is particularly unhelpful for anyone asking an honest question. If the person is asking the question, they are not going to be going out and hiring one of you folks in the first place so rather than salvaging a non-customer you're coming across as paranoid and unhelpful. If , rather than applying it to their own lawns, they are doing it on a commercial basis, then that is up to the local enviornmental protection or consumer protection folks to worry about. Not some applicator on LS that is likely thousands of miles away and doesnt have a dog in the fight. If you dont wish to answer a question then don't. If you want to write an editorial, go get a degree in journalism and work for a newspaper.

[joevg]

i feel the same way jaspell, i mean i am licensed and everything but if someone just has a simple question i think a forum would be the place to go. but anyways what is the benefit of putting the 19-0-0 with .10 dim down twice?

[turf hokie]

i feel the same way jaspell, i mean i am licensed and everything but if someone just has a simple question i think a forum would be the place to go. but anyways what is the benefit of putting the 19-0-0 with .10 dim down twice?

You get a longer window of crabgrass control. We find in our area a good % of germination happens in late June and July. By applying a split application we extend our window of control to cover this time frame.

It isnot something that needs to be done in all parts of the country but we find ours is one of those areas.

[turf hokie]

I agree with Joe. This particular sub forum is particularly unhelpful for anyone asking an honest question.


Not some applicator on LS that is likely thousands of miles away and doesnt have a dog in the fight.


Second post and bashing those in this forum. Not a good start. My issue with a lot of the questions is the lack of research on the posters part, many of these beginner questions have been answered numerous times and can be found with a simple search.

We ALL have a dog in the fight, just because a particular poster is not in our backyard THIS TIME does not mean they wont be next time.

True story, I had given a homeowner a quote for their lawn about 2 years ago, they had issues and I explained to them the problem and that I would take care of it, but did not go into tremendous detail. The homeowner found this site and posted pics, got answers and never called me back. Not only did I lose out on a potential $150 per service customer but I wasted an hour of my time walking the property with this person.

And before you say they were not going to use me anyway, they currently had a service that was not doing the right thing ....So you tell me do I have a dog in the fight, not this time, but I have and surely will again. I lost all value of my knowledge in this situation because someone came on here and got answers from a professional thousands of miles away.

[GracesLandscaping]

ok well since this is the topic whats the best thing for me to use as a crabgrass preemergent and when do i use it. ill go ahead and say i have my applicators card but this will be for use on my lawn only. any help appreciated!

[turf hokie]

ok well since this is the topic whats the best thing for me to use as a crabgrass preemergent and when do i use it. ill go ahead and say i have my applicators card but this will be for use on my lawn only. any help appreciated!

Well, since you have your applicators card:hammerhead: read the posts prior to this to determine what pre-emergent you might use.

[GracesLandscaping]

Well, since you have your applicators card:hammerhead: read the posts prior to this to determine what pre-emergent you might use.

I have the card from an ag class in college... its a certified private applicators liscence... so i just figured id ask while you were already on the topic... im half scared to even start a thread asking in this forum due to all the bashing and arguing that is on the pesticide forum :hammerhead:

I dont spray with my lawn business, other than spot treating my lawn. I have never used a preemergent so i thought id ask...

[Jaspell]

Correct me if I'm wrong Scotty, but if you're a licensed applicator you probably shouldnt need a forum to ask questions. Arent you already supposed to know what you're doing? That's kind of the point of passing the test and getting licensed isnt it? And again, I think that if the issue of people asking questions bugs you so much, then dont answer them. That will solve the problem pretty quickly. If no one with knowledge answers, then the hoi poloy will stop asking questions here.

[GracesLandscaping]

Correct me if I'm wrong Scotty, but if you're a licensed applicator you probably shouldnt need a forum to ask questions. Arent you already supposed to know what you're doing? That's kind of the point of passing the test and getting licensed isnt it? And again, I think that if the issue of people asking questions bugs you so much, then dont answer them. That will solve the problem pretty quickly. If no one with knowledge answers, then the hoi poloy will stop asking questions here.

if you are talking about me, no im not suppose to know jack about lawn care as i stated i got it in an ag class for farming, not lawncare. and just because you have a liscence DEFINATELY doesn't mean you wont have questions about what to use or do. if i recall when we took the test to get this card the only things we had to know were safety precautions and such, or what do do if you ahve a spill.... mainly common sense... anyone can get the card but they have to learn this stuff somehwere else :hammerhead:

[joevg]

well back to your question, im not a pro at this stuff but i was told to use dimension. seems people have had good luck with it and i am using it for the second season. here in iowa we put it down early spring, pretty much as the grass comes out of dorment. again i am not a pro but just trying to help. if anyone has anymore suggestions for me that would be greatly appreciated.

[Jaspell]

Grace, I wasnt referring to your post. I was giving a bit of s*** to the folks in this particular subforum who dump on people asking questions. I am with you and Joe. If you have a question, ask away. If someone is put out by the question then they shouldnt answer it.

[GracesLandscaping]

Grace, I wasnt referring to your post. I was giving a bit of s*** to the folks in this particular subforum who dump on people asking questions. I am with you and Joe. If you have a question, ask away. If someone is put out by the question then they shouldnt answer it.

ok my apologies then!!!! i wasn't sure and thought you were saying since i had the card, i should know everything about it lol!

and where can i find this diminsion stuff at? (like i said i am new at this section of lawn care)

[ted putnam]

Look guys, I understand your frustration. But you have to see things from our angle too. Just like the other thread "200gal recipe". That's got "I don't know what the hell I'm doing" written all over it. It's like giving someone a hand grenade and not telling them they have to put the pin back in before they let go of it or it will explode.You've got to know what you are doing with many of these products or it can and will blow up in your face. Many of these guys are formally educated as well as going through the school of "hard knocks" working for someone else, paying their dues. I personally have been doing this for about 19 yrs now. I don't have a problem sharing my knowledge with someone who truly wants to learn and is willing to put forth some effort themselves but I do have a problem just handing a grenade to someone with absolutely no experience who isn't interested in how or why it works...They just want to see it explode...now! I hope you guys can appreciate this.

[Jaspell]

Ted, I absolutely do understand where you're coming from. When I started out in the business, I worked in a high end garden and landscape center. People used to come in and pick my brain on what the appropriate solution was with regards to what chemicals to buy etc. They would then leave and drive over to Wal-Mart (of course in those days it wasnt Wal Mart but another big store) and buy the chemical I told them they needed for 30% less than we sold it for.

It's an imperfect situation. I do think with a site such as this, the problem is not so much the home-owner: Not many HO's are gonna Google "lawn care forum" and end up here. It is more likely the cut and blow guys who have a customer ask them to do a "4-step" or some such thing.

As far as the hand grenades, I know a lot of so called pesticide professionals (most of them, to be fair, spraying trees---not lawns) ---that are licensed, yet have absolutley no clue about the proper proportions of methoxychlor or whever it may be that they are spraying and end up either way over or way under concentration.

I dont know what the answer is, but I dont think a guy like Joe who asks a question about a relatively innocuous topic as pre emergent crabgrass control deserves the pile on.

I do know this is how you feed your family and I do respect that and all that is behind it.

Peace

Jaspell

[joevg]

Man this has got pretty deep. like i said before i am fairly new at all this and was just looking for some help. i understand both sides of it and i understand where everyone is coming from. i am 19 and trying to learn as much as i can because this is what i choose to do with my career. i did lawncare all the way through high school and took some turf managment classes and i really enjoyed it. i choose to start doing the lawncare full time on my own taking over our little family business. i just want to expand and make a living while showing all my customers i do some of the best work around. the reason i joined this forum is to get help and advise from people who have done it for years and know everything first hand. its kinda hard to ask for advise from your competitors around town so i figured the forum was the best option. this is a great site and very helpful. again i am licensed and not trying to steal anyones advise or anything. i really appricate all the help and hope to get a lot more advise.

back to graceslandscaping, i get it from our local dealer that i buy all of my product from. i believe the dimension comes in a lot of differnet products and there are a couple of differnet premergents you can use i believe.

[GracesLandscaping]

for a preemergent the only local places we have are probably going to be like a lowes or home depot :/ The only chemical/fert places here are southern states and farming places, they sell farming chems and stuff like that so they probably wouldnt have this. the only "turf" style product would be ferts such as a triple ten or 6-24-24. of course they sell 2-4-d and all that but its mainly for the farmers

[Young Bros]

I am using Lesco 13-0-5 with .10% Dimension. I used 19-0-6 .10% Dimension with good results last season. The 13-0-5 is new and cost less. $17 something a bag + delivery. I don't think the lower N will be a problem. If we have any break throughs (all products seem too) we will use Q4 spot spraying out of the tank round 3.

[Happy Frog]

That's funny...
Ask a question about grass cutting and most everyone will do it's best to help you out, whether you are licensed, bonded, insured or not . Ask a question about chemical application and people start giving you crap and ask about your license... :confused:

Here is one I would like an answer to:
Which pre-emergent is best on Southern lawns (effectiveness/cost ratio)?
Pendimethalin (Pre-M), Dithiopyr (Dimension), Sulfentrazone/Prodiamine (Echelon) or Prodiamine (Stonewall)?

[ted putnam]

That's funny...
Ask a question about grass cutting and most everyone will do it's best to help you out, whether you are licensed, bonded, insured or not . Ask a question about chemical application and people start giving you crap and ask about your license... :confused:

Here is one I would like an answer to:
Which pre-emergent is best on Southern lawns (effectiveness/cost ratio)?
Pendimethalin (Pre-M), Dithiopyr (Dimension), Sulfentrazone/Prodiamine (Echelon) or Prodiamine (Stonewall)?

The reason people get grilled a little more about the spraying is because contaminating a stream/pond or nuking someones lawn is a little different than mowing a little to close or buzzing the bark off of a bradford pear with the weedeater. That being said, I have great luck with prodiamine. Costwise it is very close to pendimethalin and much less mess. However, you'll notice when reading the label that it does not control as broad a spectrum of broadleaf weeds as pendi. Each have their positives and negatives.

[Happy Frog]

The reason people get grilled a little more about the spraying is because contaminating a stream/pond or nuking someones lawn is a little different than mowing a little to close or buzzing the bark off of a bradford pear with the weedeater. That being said, I have great luck with prodiamine. Costwise it is very close to pendimethalin and much less mess. However, you'll notice when reading the label that it does not control as broad a spectrum of broadleaf weeds as pendi. Each have their positives and negatives.

Yeah, that was I thought about Pre-M, effective but messy.
Last year, almost every resident in my community who used Tru-green had their lawn seriously damaged or killed by wrong chem application... I asked a local applicator if he was interested to pick up some accounts and he never followed up so when they ask me what to do, I tell them to buy a spreader so they can kill their lawn themselves instead of paying Tru-green to do it... :laugh: