Kohler command solenoid

[lawnandl]

maybe a silly question... but, what is the purpose of a carburetor solenoid? how do i know if its bad? ;)

Thanks...

[MowerMedic77]

It's to stop the flow of fuel during shut down of your engine, it shuts off first before your coils so you don't load up the cylinder(s) and backfire. They require 12volts to operate most times you can hear them click open when you turn your key on or touch with your hand while some one else turns the key to the on position and you should also feel it when it opens. Or remove it from the fuel bowl and bench test it with 12volts it should pull the plunger back with 12volts applied and release when you remove it.

[lawnandl]

thanks for the help! as you said about the click, i do not get one and i think its dead. i guess this is the reason why the carb keeps flooding, and the problem is not the carb itself...hopefully. i understand these solenoids go for about $100.00 , is this true?

[MowerMedic77]

They tend to fail in the closed position, meaning they don't open or pull back when power is applied. Now this is not always the case so its good to pull it out and bench test it. And yes they can be expensive:cry: the range depending on manufacture is usually around $70-$80. But they will not cause flooding this will be caused by something not allowing the needle and seat to close, either debris or a float that is stuck. Sounds like you will need to pull your carb and go through.

[topsites]

After you get it out, check with Napa, they might have one for less.

[4.3mudder]

If it is bad, I would not worry about putting the money out for it unless you want it done. If you let you mower sit there and idle for half minute after it has been mowing you should not have a problem with it "dieseling" or popping.

[topsites]

If it is bad, I would not worry about putting the money out for it unless you want it done. If you let you mower sit there and idle for half minute after it has been mowing you should not have a problem with it "dieseling" or popping.

Ohhh, I thought that was standard shut-down procedure anyhow...

Because fuel solenoid or not it's going to backfire when shutting down instantly from WOT.

[ed2hess]

If it is bad, I would not worry about putting the money out for it unless you want it done. If you let you mower sit there and idle for half minute after it has been mowing you should not have a problem with it "dieseling" or popping.

I guess I don't understand the device....I thought that if it failed to actuate you can't get the engine to run? I guess you are saying if it is stuck open not a big deal just let it alone?

[pugs]

Ohhh, I thought that was standard shut-down procedure anyhow...

Because fuel solenoid or not it's going to backfire when shutting down instantly from WOT.


Not on a Kohler. Their anti backfire solenoids only affect the high speed idle circuits. You are supposed to shut them down at 1/2 throttle or above to prevent backfires.

But I still generally idle any engine down for a bit and then shut it off.

At any rate, I dont think the solenoid is your problem. The solenoid will not cause or prevent a carb from leaking fuel or flooding. Sounds like you have a leaking needle/seat.

[4.3mudder]

I guess I don't understand the device....I thought that if it failed to actuate you can't get the engine to run? I guess you are saying if it is stuck open not a big deal just let it alone?

If the solenoid does not work, it will either be in a open or closed position. You can take the solenoid out and oush and pull on the plunger by hand. All you have to do if it is not working then push the plunger down and it should stay there, I don't think they have a spring in them to push them back up when there is no current going to them.

Only reason they out those are on there is to keep from popping after the engine is shut down. If you let it sit there and idle for 30 seconds to a minute or so after running it, you will not have that problem with it popping after shut down.

[4.3mudder]

Not on a Kohler. Their anti backfire solenoids only affect the high speed idle circuits. You are supposed to shut them down at 1/2 throttle or above to prevent backfires.

But I still generally idle any engine down for a bit and then shut it off.

At any rate, I dont think the solenoid is your problem. The solenoid will not cause or prevent a carb from leaking fuel or flooding. Sounds like you have a leaking needle/seat.

No, the plunger goes up into the main jet. You are supposed to idel and engine down to prevent backfiring, but who does? I do always.

[4.3mudder]

Ohhh, I thought that was standard shut-down procedure anyhow...

Because fuel solenoid or not it's going to backfire when shutting down instantly from WOT.

Yes it is going to backfire if you immeditaley shut it down at WOT, does it all the time on my kohlers, so I idle everything down when I'm done.

[MowerMedic77]

This post is now... beating a dead horse :hammerhead:

[4.3mudder]

This post is now... beating a dead horse :hammerhead:

:laugh: oh well

[pugs]

No, the plunger goes up into the main jet. You are supposed to idel and engine down to prevent backfiring, but who does? I do always.

Thats great, and that is why it only affects the high speed. It does not affect the low speed circuit. It cuts fuel off to the high speed circuit and thus you are supposed to shut the kohlers down at 1/2 throttle or above.


Direcly from their owners manual:

Stopping
1. Remove the load by disengaging all PTO driven
attachments.
2. For Carbureted Engines Without A Shutdown
Solenoid: Move the throttle to the slow or low
idle position. Allow the engine to run at idle for
30-60 seconds; then stop the engine.
For Carbureted Engines Equipped With A
Shutdown Solenoid: Position the throttle control
between half and full throttle; then stop the
engine.
For EFI Engines: Move the throttle to the slow or
idle position; turn key off to stop engine.

[4.3mudder]

Huh, that's weird, I guess mine is not working, because if I go from WOT to idle and do not let is sit and idle, I can quickly shut off the engine and it will backfire. But normally, from all of my equipment I just let it idle anyway. I don't think it hurts anything or causes any harm.

it's just funny why to shut if off at mid throttle with a solenoid. Thanks, learned something today :waving:

I just always thought it was good to idle anything down before shutting down. I guess I was off.

[Jim@MilkyWay]

.... I don't think it hurts anything or causes any harm.
I don't know if anyone else has ever noticed this, but I have blown a muffler out; I mean it blew out a rolled seam at the end cap.

[4.3mudder]

I don't know if anyone else has ever noticed this, but I have blown a muffler out; I mean it blew out a rolled seam at the end cap.

Awesome, you should gain another 5 horse or so :rolleyes:. Maybe no, I would get that fixed, or you are going to have some pretty pissed off people because you making all that noise :hammerhead:

[Jim@MilkyWay]

Screw the 'other people'!
I dern near had a coronary.

[4.3mudder]

Screw the 'other people'!
I dern near had a coronary.

That's where big ear muffs come in handy :hammerhead:

[lawnandl]

now that i have done all of that, i replaced the carb with a brand new one. i thought it was no good anymore, but come to find out, i put the new carb on and the engine will run for a few seconds and then shut off, just like the old carb did. obviously there must be a greater problem somewhere. the mower is a walker with a 20hp kohler...

[4.3mudder]

Sounds like it is still not getting any fuel, will it run on choke?

[lawnandl]

problem found...the carb solenoid was not getting any juice. tested it by putting a wire directly from the positive post to the carb solenoid and wala!

[Jim@MilkyWay]

Hopefully you needed a new carb.

[lawnandl]

Nope! but you need one....??? haha

[S DIAMOND]

I guess Mower Medic is right, poor horse.:laugh:

Anyway, I found this from some technical information I had in my files, perhaps it will help. It really depends on the design of the carburetor and the OEM’s set up on the piece of equipment.

Shut engine down with throttle above idle. Usually throttle settings between ¼ to ¾ are sufficient. However, some engines may require shutdown at full throttle to solve.

• Engines used on these model tractors are equipped with a fuel shutoff solenoid. This solenoid shuts off fuel to the main jet at shutdown, therefore preventing raw fuel from entering the cylinder or muffler as the engine spins down after the key is turned off. However, at idle speeds the carburetor sources fuel from the idle jet circuit, which is independent of the main jet, and is not controlled by the shutoff solenoid. If shut down at idle, the engine will continue to pull raw fuel into the cylinder and muffler via the idle circuit, possibly resulting in backfire.

• In “the old days” customers were warned to not shut engines down at high engine speeds because engine damage could occur. This was true as older engines without fuel shutoff solenoids would continue to pull large quantities of raw fuel through the main jet at shutdown and possibly wash down the cylinder walls and cause premature wear and damage. On engines equipped with fuel shutoff solenoids, this cannot happen and no engine damage will occur as a result of shutting down at higher engine speeds.

• Due to leaner fuel mixtures brought about by EPA regulations, today’s engines are more prone to backfire than older non-EPA engines with richer mixtures.

• Some customers have found that after the engine breaks-in (50+ hours), they can shut down at idle without backfire.

• This is the shutdown procedure recommended by both Briggs & Stratton and Kohler. :walking:

[MowerMedic77]

I guess Mower Medic is right, poor horse.:laugh:

I'm usually always right:rolleyes:.....ask my ex-wife :laugh:

142344

[4.3mudder]

problem found...the carb solenoid was not getting any juice. tested it by putting a wire directly from the positive post to the carb solenoid and wala!

:hammerhead::hammerhead: