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Happy Frog
03-27-2009, 04:11 PM
I might be opening a can of worm but here is a comparison chart of the "big name" top of the line backpack blowers.

Before settling down on a specific model, one must understand that the actual blowing power has much to do with the volume of air displaced (air mass) and the speed at which the blower will move this air (velocity).
The blower efficiency index on the chart is a very good indicator of how the blower will perform compared to the others.

As you can see here, there is actually not much difference between the three "big names" top of the line blowers (Echo, Redmax and Stihl).
You can also see that a good performer not much talked about is the Kawaski KBR750 which has the highest engine power and performs about the same as the Stihl BR-600 while being the quieter of all.
On the other hand, the two new Shindaiwa blowers are in a whole different ball park in terms of actual blowing performance with a 33% and 48% increase in performance compared to the much talked about Stihl BR-600.

141704

jkilov
03-27-2009, 04:49 PM
A blower is a blower. As long as it has some decent oomph, it's fine by me.

mississippiturf
03-27-2009, 06:14 PM
Thanks for the chart. I'm sure it will used many times on this site throughout the year.

Turf Dawg
03-27-2009, 06:24 PM
After trying several blowers, I will have to say that I do not believe the CFM at nozzle numbers. I do not own a Redmax 8001 because I think they are heavy and I do not like the way they feel, but I will say that I believe they have the most air volume out of the pipe no matter what these charts show. I can tell you that my Sthil 600 blows harder than my Redmax 7001, but not as much as what the difference in ratings would suggest. Not that anyone cares, but after trying a Shin 802 I'm about 99% sure that will be my next blower. It has great power, nice weight and feels good on.

Happy Frog
03-27-2009, 07:15 PM
After trying several blowers, I will have to say that I do not believe the CFM at nozzle numbers. I do not own a Redmax 8001 because I think they are heavy and I do not like the way they feel, but I will say that I believe they have the most air volume out of the pipe no matter what these charts show. I can tell you that my Sthil 600 blows harder than my Redmax 7001, but not as much as what the difference in ratings would suggest. Not that anyone cares, but after trying a Shin 802 I'm about 99% sure that will be my next blower. It has great power, nice weight and feels good on.

That's funny you say that... ;)
The Redmax EBZ7100 (which is not on the table) would have a performance index of 1231 which is below all the blowers of this panel but not that big of a difference with the BR-600 (just 16% less in blowing performance).
You see, because of the laws of physics an increase in air speed has a bigger effect on performance than an increase in air volume but both are needed to get the job done.
I, for one, believe in the rating given by the manufacturers. They are consistent with the performance index on this chart... :rolleyes:

TheUfan
03-27-2009, 07:43 PM
For my money at this moment, I would use the BR-600. It has great performance, low noise volume, and is amazingly comfortable. I like shidaiwa and I might try the 802 but it would have to be more comfortable than the stihl to get my dollars. I have owned an echo 755 and a 620 and they are reliable blowers. The 755 is very uncomfortable though to wear for long periods of time.

Frontier-Lawn
03-27-2009, 07:53 PM
I might be opening a can of worm but here is a comparison chart of the "big name" top of the line backpack blowers.

Before settling down on a specific model, one must understand that the actual blowing power has much to do with the volume of air displaced (air mass) and the speed at which the blower will move this air (velocity).
The blower efficiency index on the chart is a very good indicator of how the blower will perform compared to the others.

As you can see here, there is actually not much difference between the three "big names" top of the line blowers (Echo, Redmax and Stihl).
You can also see that a good performer not much talked about is the Kawaski KBR750 which has the highest engine power and performs about the same as the Stihl BR-600 while being the quieter of all.
On the other hand, the two new Shindaiwa blowers are in a whole different ball park in terms of actual blowing performance with a 33% and 48% increase in performance compared to the much talked about Stihl BR-600.

141704

thats why i love my Kawaski KBR750

johnnybravo8802
03-27-2009, 08:09 PM
Good chart frog. I still believe Stihl sets the bar in accessory equipment and am diehard about their products. I love my BR600R. I can barely hear it running when idling. I personally focus on CFM as the important number over air speed.

Happy Frog
03-27-2009, 08:10 PM
For my money at this moment, I would use the BR-600. It has great performance, low noise volume, and is amazingly comfortable. I like shidaiwa and I might try the 802 but it would have to be more comfortable than the stihl to get my dollars. I have owned an echo 755 and a 620 and they are reliable blowers. The 755 is very uncomfortable though to wear for long periods of time.

I agree with you on the Echo 755 being reliable but uncomfortable to use and this is why I bought the EB-802. More power and by far the most comfortable blower on the market today.

LouisianaLawnboy
03-27-2009, 08:14 PM
I have an Echo PB620 and have no problems with it. I think its up to personal preference.

Happy Frog
03-27-2009, 08:16 PM
Good chart frog. I still believe Stihl sets the bar in accessory equipment and am diehard about their products. I love my BR600R. I can barely hear it running when idling. I personally focus on CFM as the important number over air speed.

Check your mass inertia formulas and you'll understand why increase in speed has a greater effect than increase in mass (or air volume) on inertia (blowing force).

ed2hess
03-27-2009, 09:48 PM
[QUOTE=TheUfan;2886885]For my money at this moment, I would use the BR-600. . I have owned an echo 755 and a 620 and they are reliable blowers. QUOTE]

Interesting that reliability drops off the list as an important factor in purchasing a blower. To me that is probably the most important thing considering most of the other things are practicalliy equal. Probably why we still got our two PB650 units still in service after many many years of high use.

LouisianaLawnboy
03-27-2009, 09:57 PM
Not too good of a chart if you ask me.

TheUfan
03-27-2009, 10:08 PM
Interesting you would ascertain from one line that reliability is not a top priority for me much less anyone. Is echo a more reliable brand that redmax, stihl, shindaiwa, or any other maker of commercial equipment? More than likely, you, like the majority of successful LCO's, consider reliability to be a mitigating factor....but equally so is dealer support, ease of use, comfort, performance, warranty, etc. Happy to see you are an echo loyalist.

Kelly's Landscaping
03-27-2009, 10:19 PM
Missing a few important items on the chart Number one retail price Number two fuel efficiency. Id like to see comfort on there as well but thatís rather subjective so thatís any ones guess. I found the stihl br 600 to be the most comfortable backpack iv ever used. And price well I know what the retail is but I donít pay that of the 8 I own iv paid as little as 399.00 each and as much as 419.00 it may not be the most powerful but price speaks volumes. Also it may have the smallest tank but we get 1- 1.25 hours per tank at full use during clean ups. She has got to be in contention for most fuel-efficient.

Happy Frog
03-27-2009, 10:25 PM
[QUOTE=TheUfan;2886885]For my money at this moment, I would use the BR-600. . I have owned an echo 755 and a 620 and they are reliable blowers. QUOTE]

Interesting that reliability drops off the list as an important factor in purchasing a blower. To me that is probably the most important thing considering most of the other things are practicalliy equal. Probably why we still got our two PB650 units still in service after many many years of high use.

You got a good point here and reliability or comfort of use are certainly to be considered before buying any of these.
I made this chart to only compare factual data about the top of the line blower offered by major manufacturers.
I did not include price points or reliability ratings because your own mileage may be different.
I bought my Echo PB-755T because I had a good price, I thought it would be reliable and had enough power for my needs at that time.
To each one its own and I just hope this chart will save time to anyone on the market for a new blower.

Happy Frog
03-27-2009, 10:26 PM
Not too good of a chart if you ask me.

No one asked you but would you care to elaborate on your comment?

pinto n mwr
03-27-2009, 10:34 PM
didn't read every post on this thread but enough to again realize that every LCO has a difference of opinion. I for one love power, power only! BUT, I have demo'ed the best of the best and found that thw most powerful blower do not have a practical used in what I would use them for. Blowing clippings is one thing but when doing spring and fall cleanup I cannot do the detail work of blowing out shrubs and landscape due to the mess I will create. IMO in this case the most powerful blowers are glorified backparck billy goats.

genesis215
03-27-2009, 10:54 PM
Good chart. I ended up going with the BR 600 after considering all the facts. I absolutely love it. It's 1 1/2 years old, but it always starts first pull, even in 25 degrees! IMO, it has nicer features than the Shindaiwa EB802 that I was just about to get, namely carb adjustment screws, much lower exhaust tone, and lighter weight. The biggest factor in my decision was fuel efficiency. Getting 1 hour to 1.25 hours on a 47 oz. tank of fuel is incredible. The Shindaiwa EB802 by contrast uses up a 67 oz. tank in 1 hour. That's big money savings, and I don't think the power difference is all that big, and people that have tried them side-by-side say that they are pretty similar in power. I would like to find out how long a tank of fuel lasts on a Shindaiwa EB8520. That wil be interesting.

For now I'll stick with the Stihl BR 600 due to the rising fuel prices, and the good dealer support, but I might try an 802 once I get a little bigger in the business.

All things considered, the Shindaiwa EB802 really is clearly the best blower on the market, and it probably can't be beat.

Cuttinitclose
03-27-2009, 10:59 PM
Good chart. I ended up going with the BR 600 after considering all the facts. I absolutely love it. It's 1 1/2 years old, but it always starts first pull, even in 25 degrees! IMO, it has nicer features than the Shindaiwa EB802 that I was just about to get, namely carb adjustment screws, much lower exhaust tone, and lighter weight. The biggest factor in my decision was fuel efficiency. Getting 1 hour to 1.25 hours on a 47 oz. tank of fuel is incredible. The Shindaiwa EB802 by contrast uses up a 67 oz. tank in 1 hour. That's big money savings, and I don't think the power difference is all that big, and people that have tried them side-by-side say that they are pretty similar in power. I would like to find out how long a tank of fuel lasts on a Shindaiwa EB8520. That wil be interesting.

For now I'll stick with the Stihl BR 600 due to the rising fuel prices, and the good dealer support, but I might try an 802 once I get a little bigger in the business.

All things considered, the Shindaiwa EB802 really is clearly the best blower on the market, and it probably can't be beat.

What is your dealer?

genesis215
03-27-2009, 11:30 PM
My dealer is Midwest Equipment near Peoria.

CGlisson
03-27-2009, 11:51 PM
Nice work man, awesome thread.

Happy Frog
03-28-2009, 02:15 AM
didn't read every post on this thread but enough to again realize that every LCO has a difference of opinion. I for one love power, power only! BUT, I have demo'ed the best of the best and found that thw most powerful blower do not have a practical used in what I would use them for. Blowing clippings is one thing but when doing spring and fall cleanup I cannot do the detail work of blowing out shrubs and landscape due to the mess I will create. IMO in this case the most powerful blowers are glorified backparck billy goats.

Better throttle control should solve your issue about power... :rolleyes:
Squeeze, don't pull... :laugh:

LouisianaLawnboy
03-28-2009, 09:21 AM
No one asked you but would you care to elaborate on your comment?

Doesn't count reliability. Only measures one model per company, which any company can have a dud. It just doesn't give you an overall good rating IMO

grassman177
03-28-2009, 09:38 AM
very cool chart, we use the echo 755 and find them more than enough power. actually the idle is too much somethimes when dealing with mulch a tthe edge of a bed!! we dont find them uncomfy at all either! it is interesting the number how the 755 air vol at housing is soo high and then at tube is low. they blow so hard it can hurt your shoulder when you first start using them!!! i am not arguing the numbers, but they dont seem right compared to use in the field. but i know they are form the manufacturer so they dont lie. they do use some fuel though i have noticed, but you can walk fast using them so you can more than make up for that.

Happy Frog
03-28-2009, 01:36 PM
Doesn't count reliability. Only measures one model per company, which any company can have a dud. It just doesn't give you an overall good rating IMO

You are correct, I made this chart to only compare the technical data of the most powerful blower of each major manufacturer, Shindaiwa has two models on the chart because of the two type of engine they use.
I added an objective (calculated) performance index to help compare the actual blowing performance of each blower.

I did not put the MSRP because what you actually pay for them is what really count and this will vary with the dealer you are using. All of them can be had between $399 and $520 anyway.

To stay objective, no comment is made on design, reliability, ease of use, dealer support or other subjective values but for what it's worth, I'll be happy to discuss my point of view with anyone asking for it.

Happy Frog
03-28-2009, 01:46 PM
very cool chart, we use the echo 755 and find them more than enough power. actually the idle is too much somethimes when dealing with mulch a the edge of a bed!! we dont find them uncomfy at all either! it is interesting the number how the 755 air vol at housing is soo high and then at tube is low. they blow so hard it can hurt your shoulder when you first start using them!!! i am not arguing the numbers, but they dont seem right compared to use in the field. but i know they are form the manufacturer so they dont lie. they do use some fuel though i have noticed, but you can walk fast using them so you can more than make up for that.

The air volume at the housing is mesured without tubes and the PB-755 housing output flex tube is too small. Kind of like a big engine with a small exhaust pipe... :laugh:

lawnpro724
03-28-2009, 02:56 PM
The air volume at the housing is mesured without tubes and the PB-755 housing output flex tube is too small. Kind of like a big engine with a small exhaust pipe... :laugh:

one doesn't have anything to do with the other. The smaller tube is used to improve air speed and the housing volume is used to move leaves. If you enlarged the tube you would loose air speed and air volume.

Happy Frog
03-28-2009, 03:21 PM
one doesn't have anything to do with the other. The smaller tube is used to improve air speed and the housing volume is used to move leaves. If you enlarged the tube you would loose air speed and air volume.

I did not mean it that way and it was a bad analogy...
On the Echo 755 there is a bigger difference between the housing and tube cfm than on the other blowers.
With the tubes on, the engine simply does not have the power to displace the same volume of air in a given period of time (minute), hence the bigger difference...
Actually, enlarging the tube would give you less air speed, more air volume and less blowing power...

Mike Blevins
03-28-2009, 10:04 PM
Horsepower on the Redmax is 4.4

grassman177
03-28-2009, 10:13 PM
i did not think it is too small. it is the same diameter all the way down from the start of the curved tube at the housing to the tip of the tube. so i am not sure what you are talking about here. i get the concept, but i dont agree with the analagy of the blower design. we have five or six of these and i runthem everyday.

pinto n mwr
03-28-2009, 10:57 PM
Better throttle control should solve your issue about power... :rolleyes:
Squeeze, don't pull... :laugh:

after 16 years of doing this, finally i have an answer..........

Happy Frog
03-28-2009, 11:08 PM
after 16 years of doing this, finally i have an answer..........

You're welcome... :laugh:

InSiDeR
03-31-2009, 06:54 PM
one doesn't have anything to do with the other. The smaller tube is used to improve air speed and the housing volume is used to move leaves. If you enlarged the tube you would loose air speed and air volume.

Air volume at the housing means absolutely nothing. Air volume at the tube tip is what moves the material. Think of it like a pressure washer; they generally have a maximum operating pressure (measured at the pump) and a working pressure (measured at the nozzle). Air volume at the housing on a blower is much like maximum operating pressure on a pressure washer, it really doesn't equate to performance. Air volume and air speed at the tube tip is what counts.

ed2hess
03-31-2009, 07:54 PM
Interesting you would ascertain from one line that reliability is not a top priority for me much less anyone. Is echo a more reliable brand that redmax, stihl, shindaiwa, or any other maker of commercial equipment? More than likely, you, like the majority of successful LCO's, consider reliability to be a mitigating factor....but equally so is dealer support, ease of use, comfort, performance, warranty, etc. Happy to see you are an echo loyalist.

Just for the record I run several BR420 units in additiona to Echo and........in 35 years I have yet to have an engine failure on either the BR420s or an array of different Echo models. I keep asking the chief mechanic at the dealer each year if the problems are stopping on driving the valves into the piston on the BR600 and the answer continues to be the same.....no. I don't buy equipment to throw away after 2 years but rather I keep them running. My big Echo units are many years old and still running.

lawnpro724
03-31-2009, 08:15 PM
Air volume at the housing means absolutely nothing. Air volume at the tube tip is what moves the material. Think of it like a pressure washer; they generally have a maximum operating pressure (measured at the pump) and a working pressure (measured at the nozzle). Air volume at the housing on a blower is much like maximum operating pressure on a pressure washer, it really doesn't equate to performance. Air volume and air speed at the tube tip is what counts.

I think you need to read my post better and read the post it was intended for. If you added a larger tube the air volume at the housing would be lower and air speed at tube would be lowered. I am well aware of how a blower works.

CFB
03-31-2009, 11:32 PM
price differences are a big part of the equation considering how much they vary.. These are the current prices if I were to get one. Think I'd go Stihl for sure.

Redmax EBZ7001 $430
Redmax EBZ8001 $520
Shindaiwa EB802RT $450
Echo PB410 $450
Echo PB755 $410
Stihl BR600 $410
Stihl BR550 $350

Happy Frog
04-01-2009, 01:23 AM
price differences are a big part of the equation considering how much they vary.. These are the current prices if I were to get one. Think I'd go Stihl for sure.

Redmax EBZ7001 $430
Redmax EBZ8001 $520
Shindaiwa EB802RT $450
Echo PB410 $450
Echo PB755 $410
Stihl BR600 $410
Stihl BR550 $350

BR-600 @ $410 vs. EB-802 @ $450? I took the EB-802 without thinking twice about it.
If the EB-8520 had been available I would have had a closer look but not sure I would have bought it... ;)

Z-Man
04-08-2009, 09:46 AM
I am thinking of the PB620, do you like it. Will it do most of what you need it to?

Happy Frog
04-08-2009, 11:02 PM
I am thinking of the PB620, do you like it. Will it do most of what you need it to?

The PB620 has a calculated performance index of 907 which is quite lower than any of the top of the line blowers.
So, unless you are very fond of this specific model, I would not recommend it.
My Poulan Pro handheld blower has a performance index of 883 and costs less than $100.00...

Turf Commando
04-08-2009, 11:08 PM
A blower is a blower.
You obviously haven't a clue ....

CGlisson
04-09-2009, 10:15 AM
The PB620 has a calculated performance index of 907 which is quite lower than any of the top of the line blowers.
So, unless you are very fond of this specific model, I would not recommend it.
My Poulan Pro handheld blower has a performance index of 883 and costs less than $100.00...

True that. You're better off buying a handheld blower unless you're gonna go with a bigger model backpack. I have a Craftsman handheld to do my driveways and a Shindaiwa EB802RT for the bigger stuff. I couldn't be happier with the setup. I also demoed all makes except Redmax. Shindaiwa was most comfortable for me and I like my dealer.

NOTE: Don't listen to those who say the Shindaiwa 802 is the same as the Echo 755T. The difference is noticeable.

Happy Frog
04-09-2009, 11:24 AM
True that. You're better off buying a handheld blower unless you're gonna go with a bigger model backpack. I have a Craftsman handheld to do my driveways and a Shindaiwa EB802RT for the bigger stuff. I couldn't be happier with the setup. I also demoed all makes except Redmax. Shindaiwa was most comfortable for me and I like my dealer.NOTE: Don't listen to those who say the Shindaiwa 802 is the same as the Echo 755T. The difference is noticeable.

Yes it is. I have both and the EB-802 is much more effective (and comfortable) than the PB-755T.

tallimeca
04-09-2009, 08:19 PM
Without reading through this whole thread, I can tell you this.......there are many flaws in those specs on the chart there.

Some of those manufacturers rate their weight of the machine WITHOUT the hose and tubes......

Some of those cfm outputs are not correct either.

Happy Frog
04-09-2009, 11:33 PM
Without reading through this whole thread, I can tell you this.......there are many flaws in those specs on the chart there.

Some of those manufacturers rate their weight of the machine WITHOUT the hose and tubes......

Some of those cfm outputs are not correct either.

The cfm outputs are taken from manufacturer web sites or manuals. I you have different numbers I'll be glad to update the table.
You are correct on the weight, some weights given by manufacturers are without tubes (as far as I know, the hose weight is always included).
Like I said before, this table is just a quick way to compare data given by manufacturers on their top of the line blower. The only value added, is the performance index.

Wizz
04-10-2009, 12:16 AM
I think the 'manufacturers' numbers can't be used to compare blowers, they only give you a ballpark. I demoed the BR600 and Shindy 802 side by side at the same time at a dealer...both had the same amount of usage on them (minimal). I was fully expecting the 802 to blow harder due to their published specs but it didn't, it blew no harder than the BR600...it actually seemed like the debris I was blowing blew a little further/easier with the 600 in my real life test, so I bought the 600 even though I was initally expecting to walk out with the 802 until I ran them side by side. For 'me' the 600 was less bulky/more comfortable, and it definately vibrated less due to the spring mounts. Just my observations testing them side by side.

Happy Frog
04-10-2009, 01:18 AM
I think the 'manufacturers' numbers can't be used to compare blowers, they only give you a ballpark. I demoed the BR600 and Shindy 802 side by side at the same time at a dealer...both had the same amount of usage on them (minimal). I was fully expecting the 802 to blow harder due to their published specs but it didn't, it blew no harder than the BR600...it actually seemed like the debris I was blowing blew a little further/easier with the 600 in my real life test, so I bought the 600 even though I was initally expecting to walk out with the 802 until I ran them side by side. For 'me' the 600 was less bulky/more comfortable, and it definately vibrated less due to the spring mounts. Just my observations testing them side by side.

I bet you did not use the small nozzle on the EB-802... If you had, you would have bought it...

jkilov
04-10-2009, 05:21 PM
You obviously haven't a clue ....
Nice out of the box complement. All I'm trying to say is that obsession with figures is meaningless.

To me all that matters is that a blower gets the job done within a reasonable amount of time. Sure, you can never have enough power on a blower but sometimes the smallest details make a difference.

No one mentioned these aspects, I would consider them equally important:
- reliable idle, you don't want it to cut out on your back
- fast to warm up
- long run time (big fuel tank or economy, I don't care which)
- somewhat comfortable, fast and reliable to strap on
- not prone to clogging up with leaves
- long life, no 2-year lasting toys
- high fuel fill, so it does'nt burp/gush when refueling
- practical shape
- NOISE, not rated but guaranteed dB(A)
- AIR FILTER, funny no one mentioned this yet, some cost considerable cash and fill up way too fast

Just to explain, I owned 3 different blowers till now: echo pb-60, stihl br-400 and redmax ebz8000. They all got the average job done. First one took 25min, the other 22 and the new one 20 minutes. But there's more to it ...

The redmax is heavy and you aren't exactly thrilled about getting it on your back. The exposed fuel lines are begging for some branch to tear them apart, frame is a bit weak and screws get loose. Hoverer it blows like no other, the air filter can eat spoons of dirt. Runs long and is easy to refuel.

The stihl was nice to work with but what a riot. Talk about loud, also loved sipping fuel and eating air filters. The shape of the fuel tank made it impossible to fully refuel if set on unlevel ground. Would burp if shifted even a bit when refueling and then you had to wipe all of that fuel off.

And finally the least powerful of the three. The echo had this goofy box frame you'd think does nothing but weigh it down. What it lost in performance it made up in practicality. I din't have a blower rack back then, I din't need it. The echo you would just throw like a brick on the trailer or bed, pick it off just as fast. Would'nt roll around like the new ninja turtle blowers.

There you have it. Three different blowers that did the same job comparably good. One saved time on site, the other when walking and strapping on and the third one at loading on/off the trailer. It's not all about figures!

cutterschoice24
04-10-2009, 10:44 PM
I'm a BR600 fan but I also have a echo 620 very reliable blower but not that comfortable

mictrik
05-21-2009, 12:27 PM
didn't read every post on this thread but enough to again realize that every LCO has a difference of opinion. I for one love power, power only! BUT, I have demo'ed the best of the best and found that thw most powerful blower do not have a practical used in what I would use them for. Blowing clippings is one thing but when doing spring and fall cleanup I cannot do the detail work of blowing out shrubs and landscape due to the mess I will create. IMO in this case the most powerful blowers are glorified backparck billy goats.


Are the most powerful blowers equipped with a throttle? Cant you just use less throttle for the shrubs and landscape? I am using an Echo Pb-413 but wish to get a more powerful blower. The little Echo is very very reliable though...

Happy Frog
05-22-2009, 01:31 AM
Are the most powerful blowers equipped with a throttle? Cant you just use less throttle for the shrubs and landscape? I am using an Echo Pb-413 but wish to get a more powerful blower. The little Echo is very very reliable though...

Of course they hav a throttle. Most have a cruise control as well.

jk mow & more
05-22-2009, 02:21 AM
just got br600 love it awsome machine wish i got it sooner get one wont be disapointed:walking::clapping::dancing::cool2::drinkup:

LKNBigFish
05-22-2009, 10:31 PM
how would the kombi blower on a km 130 compare?

Lazer_Z
05-23-2009, 09:41 AM
how would the kombi blower on a km 130 compare?I was told that it's comparable to the 550 when I asked about it at my dealer.

Happy Frog
05-24-2009, 06:29 PM
how would the kombi blower on a km 130 compare?

on a KM130R it produces 589 cfm @ 157 mph which gives a calculated performance index of 726.

Not much power at all...

Rons Rightway Lawncare
05-25-2009, 07:05 AM
I bought a kawasaki based on how well I like their trimmers and how it ranked in this chart. I took it back to the store a week later and it is sitting there on consignment.... and I went and got another BR600.

The kawasaki is fairly quiet, and has power, but it isn't nearly as powerful as the stihl and is no where near as comfortable to wear, and it takes a hell of a pull on the cord to get her running ( the stihl starts with 2 fingers, spoils you really.... )

Richard Martin
05-25-2009, 09:14 AM
I bought a kawasaki based on how well I like their trimmers and how it ranked in this chart. I took it back to the store a week later and it is sitting there on consignment.... and I went and got another BR600.

The kawasaki is fairly quiet, and has power, but it isn't nearly as powerful as the stihl

This is the very reason I pay almost no attention to the specs put out by manufacturers.

As soon as blower specs and testing are standardized and performed by a single independant testing lab then I'll start paying attention.

It should also be noted that what happens at the end of the pipe has little to do with actual use. It's is well known that Stihl and Redmax have two completely different nozzles. The Redmax tends to direct it's air in a straight line and the Stihl fans it out a but more. Both blowers could have the same exact specs at the end of the nozzle but because of their fanning patterns they will blow completely different.

The best way to evaluate a blowers performance and suitability is to try them out.

Wizz
05-25-2009, 10:28 AM
This is the very reason I pay almost no attention to the specs put out by manufacturers.

As soon as blower specs and testing are standardized and performed by a single independant testing lab then I'll start paying attention.

It should also be noted that what happens at the end of the pipe has little to do with actual use. It's is well known that Stihl and Redmax have two completely different nozzles. The Redmax tends to direct it's air in a straight line and the Stihl fans it out a but more. Both blowers could have the same exact specs at the end of the nozzle but because of their fanning patterns they will blow completely different.

The best way to evaluate a blowers performance and suitability is to try them out.

Yup...when I compared the Shindy 802 and BR600 side by side I found out that either Shindy over-rated their blower specs or Stihl under-rated theirs...the BR600 actaully moved more debris even though Shindy's specs were slightly higher, it's all marketing...that's why it's a degreed field in College.

Rons Rightway Lawncare
05-25-2009, 09:59 PM
Yes, there was more to the Kawasaki saga than I let on....

First off, I had been spoiled by the Stihls flexible part of their tube. The Kawasakis tube was stiff as a board. It truely gave my arm a workout trying to wave the tubes side to side. I thought it must just need a few days to break in, but after a solid week it hadn't gotten even the slightest bit easier to flex. The brand new BR-600's tube was as soft flexing as my 2 year old BR600....


Then there was the issue with the darn hoses coming apart. No matter how tight you tightened the clamps, at least once a day one or both of the main connection points on the hose would blow apart on the kawasaki. I have never had this happen on the stihl. I ended up using some gorilla glue between the hoses on the Kawasaki, and tightened the hell out of the clamps to fix the kawasaki, but why should I have to do all that?

Another issue was the size of the kawasaki, I was bumping into things with it when blowing in tight quarters ( such as up on a customers front porch ) that I don't bump into with the BR600, due to the kawasakis additional depth over the more compact Stihl.

The straps on the kawasaki are comfortable, but are shaped in a way that made them slide off my shoulders as I worked, it was as if they needed to be clipped together in the middle to keep them on my shoulders....

the only other thing I didn't like, and this would probably apply to all 2 stroke blowers, is I keep my blowers on a shelf in the front of my enclosed trailer, and call me a girlyman, but I like to " Blow off " myself after the end of each job so I am not bringing in a ton of debris into my truck and just to keep myself a little cleaner during the day. The Kawasaki put out so much exhaust fumes I would come out of the trailer smelling extremely strong of 2 stroke exhaust. By the end of the day I smelled like the muffler packing out of my dirtbike.... Even though the Stihl burns mixed gas, there is very little smell or exhaust odor coming from it, and this was a issue for me.


Most of the blowers on the market are all good, but little details are the things that make it or break it for me. The Kawasaki stuff is good, I love my kawasaki trimmers and hedge clippers, and the blower would be fine for a employee to use.... but for me, I am much happier with the BR600 which was the same price

Happy Frog
06-12-2009, 03:24 PM
Yes, there was more to the Kawasaki saga than I let on....

First off, I had been spoiled by the Stihls flexible part of their tube. The Kawasakis tube was stiff as a board. It truely gave my arm a workout trying to wave the tubes side to side. I thought it must just need a few days to break in, but after a solid week it hadn't gotten even the slightest bit easier to flex. The brand new BR-600's tube was as soft flexing as my 2 year old BR600....


Then there was the issue with the darn hoses coming apart. No matter how tight you tightened the clamps, at least once a day one or both of the main connection points on the hose would blow apart on the kawasaki. I have never had this happen on the stihl. I ended up using some gorilla glue between the hoses on the Kawasaki, and tightened the hell out of the clamps to fix the kawasaki, but why should I have to do all that?

Another issue was the size of the kawasaki, I was bumping into things with it when blowing in tight quarters ( such as up on a customers front porch ) that I don't bump into with the BR600, due to the kawasakis additional depth over the more compact Stihl.

The straps on the kawasaki are comfortable, but are shaped in a way that made them slide off my shoulders as I worked, it was as if they needed to be clipped together in the middle to keep them on my shoulders....

the only other thing I didn't like, and this would probably apply to all 2 stroke blowers, is I keep my blowers on a shelf in the front of my enclosed trailer, and call me a girlyman, but I like to " Blow off " myself after the end of each job so I am not bringing in a ton of debris into my truck and just to keep myself a little cleaner during the day. The Kawasaki put out so much exhaust fumes I would come out of the trailer smelling extremely strong of 2 stroke exhaust. By the end of the day I smelled like the muffler packing out of my dirtbike.... Even though the Stihl burns mixed gas, there is very little smell or exhaust odor coming from it, and this was a issue for me.


Most of the blowers on the market are all good, but little details are the things that make it or break it for me. The Kawasaki stuff is good, I love my kawasaki trimmers and hedge clippers, and the blower would be fine for a employee to use.... but for me, I am much happier with the BR600 which was the same price

Thanks for a good post. It is always helpful to hear about these details.
You may want to put some muscles on them shoulders though... :laugh:

barlowlawncare
06-12-2009, 04:14 PM
thx for the great chart, do you have one for weed wackers?

mictrik
06-12-2009, 11:37 PM
Has anyone compared the Shindaiwa 802 with the Redmax 8001 in terms of power? I am looking for a very powerful blower to use on a ivy ridden hill and wish to have it done as quickly as possible. I did try on the Redmax and Schindaiwa and I do acknowledge that the Schindaiwa is more comfortable. The unit also has a longer tube and a reducing nozzle (65mm) that increases airspeed while reducing CFM. I thnk it should be noted that the performance figures quoted by schindaiwa depict the airspeed with the 65mm nozzle and the max CFM figure without it. I have not seen published specs with out the 65mm nozzle and with it for both CFM and MPH. The longer tube on the schindaiwa can be shortened to a more normal length by removing a tube section this will also have some effect on performance.

HenryB
06-13-2009, 07:49 AM
Has anyone compared the Shindaiwa 802 with the Redmax 8001 in terms of power? I am looking for a very powerful blower to use on a ivy ridden hill and wish to have it done as quickly as possible. I did try on the Redmax and Schindaiwa and I do acknowledge that the Schindaiwa is more comfortable. The unit also has a longer tube and a reducing nozzle (65mm) that increases airspeed while reducing CFM. I thnk it should be noted that the performance figures quoted by schindaiwa depict the airspeed with the 65mm nozzle and the max CFM figure without it. I have not seen published specs with out the 65mm nozzle and with it for both CFM and MPH. The longer tube on the schindaiwa can be shortened to a more normal length by removing a tube section this will also have some effect on performance.

The Shindaiwa 802 and Stihl 600 are more comfortable but the Redmax 8001 is substantially more powerful. I've owned all three, all good units.

Tray
06-13-2009, 02:49 PM
I just bought the Shindaiwa and demo'd a Redmax 8001. I couldn't tell the difference between the two other than the Shindaiwa was more comfortable.
I bought the Shindaiwa because the dealer is fantastic.

STIHL GUY
06-13-2009, 11:37 PM
i was all set to buy a BR600 untill saw this chart. now i am going to check out some otherr brands

mictrik
06-14-2009, 01:40 AM
the Redmax 8001 is substantially more powerful.

I am surprised that the 8001 would "substatially" more powerful than the 802.

Happy Frog
06-14-2009, 02:53 AM
I am surprised that the 8001 would "substatially" more powerful than the 802.

Yup, me too...:confused:

Rons Rightway Lawncare
06-14-2009, 07:45 AM
The chart is the chart, but my experience so far with blowers, I wouldn't have anything other than the BR600. I honestly can't see how anyone who had a chance to use all the leading blowers and use them, not just look at spec charts or speculate about how this or that should last or hold up or make power etc..... Well I can't see how anyone else would pick any other blower than the BR600.


I am glad people buy the other blowers, makes for all the companies to do R&D and come out with even better units every few years. But for me, my money will go to Stihl when is comes to blowers.

cinquefoil
07-17-2009, 05:49 PM
Where did the formula used in the chart come from? I am curious to where this rating method came from and how it was determined as the method to use to measure blower efficiency.

cinquefoil
07-18-2009, 04:14 AM
Anyone? I'm interested in learning about this.

topsites
07-18-2009, 09:52 AM
Where did the formula used in the chart come from? I am curious to where this rating method came from and how it was determined as the method to use to measure blower efficiency.

Those are simple mfg specifications, every unit has them, just a matter
someone went through the trouble of looking it up and posting it for us.

Which, it was a nice thing to do.

cinquefoil
07-18-2009, 01:21 PM
Those are simple mfg specifications, every unit has them, just a matter
someone went through the trouble of looking it up and posting it for us.

Which, it was a nice thing to do.


I understand about the mfg specs, what I was looking to find out is where the formula came from to to determine the efficiency rating. I have not seen this on any mfg site. I saw one online equipment dealer rate blowers by multiplying cfm x velocity to come up with a "blower power" figure, but have not seen it used elsewhere.

The formula used by the OP in this thread seems to have some science behind it. Thanks for the reply.

Happy Frog
07-19-2009, 10:33 PM
I understand about the mfg specs, what I was looking to find out is where the formula came from to to determine the efficiency rating. I have not seen this on any mfg site. I saw one online equipment dealer rate blowers by multiplying cfm x velocity to come up with a "blower power" figure, but have not seen it used elsewhere.

The formula used by the OP in this thread seems to have some science behind it. Thanks for the reply.

(Air volume / 2) x (squared velocity) divided by 10000

It's based on the basic (mass/2) x (square velocity) energy formula and it gives a prety good comparison index on the actual capability of blowers in terms of raw power.

cinquefoil
07-19-2009, 11:52 PM
(Air volume / 2) x (squared velocity) divided by 10000

It's based on the basic (mass/2) x (square velocity) energy formula and it gives a prety good comparison index on the actual capability of blowers in terms of raw power.

Where did the divided by 10,000 come from? I have never seen this method used to rate blowers anywhere but here. Thanks for the reply.

Happy Frog
07-20-2009, 02:01 PM
Where did the divided by 10,000 come from? I have never seen this method used to rate blowers anywhere but here. Thanks for the reply.

The 10,000 is there to get a smaller and easier to compare number. :laugh:

The reason you've never seen this method before is because I came up with it. :dancing:
I wanted an easy mean to compare their actual blowing power and I found that this formula was working pretty well as it takes in consideration the mass of air (volume) and the acceleration (air speed) the blowers give to that mass of air.
The end result is an easy comparison index of the actual force (energy) of the air flow produced by any given blower. :drinkup:

cinquefoil
07-20-2009, 10:21 PM
Turf Eagle multiplies CFM x Velocity to come up with a blower power figure. If any of these methods were an accurate way to compare blowers, I wonder why they aren't used by any of the mfgs?

Happy Frog
07-21-2009, 12:48 AM
Turf Eagle multiplies CFM x Velocity to come up with a blower power figure. If any of these methods were an accurate way to compare blowers, I wonder why they aren't used by any of the mfgs?

What can I say? Turf Eagle has it wrong...
Velocity must be squared to give an valid comparison.
If they don't know why, they should go back to school...
Manufacturers use air volume and velocity because this is what people are asking for and they don't know any better...

It doesn't compensate for compressibility and some other factors but the formula I used is close enough for me. :drinkup:

Alan0354
07-21-2009, 01:15 AM
All the specs are nice and good. But my understanding is there is no unified way of testing so what is the number really means?

You have the BR600 that is only 64cc but people swear that it is even stronger than the EBZ802/8510. There are people that claim PB755 is as strong. I have the equivalent of Kawasaki which is spec 720cfm and 200 mph at the tube which is supposed to be very strong, there are people think it is as strong as any other big blowers but there are people that thing it is weak knee!!! I have not use any other big blowers so I cannot contribute to this.

So where are we going with all the spec?:hammerhead::hammerhead:

Happy Frog
07-21-2009, 01:33 AM
I made the chart so it is easy to compare the specs of these blowers and that is all.

The performance index I calculated is an easy way to compare their raw performance but the rest is a matter of personal opinion.

For a specific job, one blower will appear better than another one to some users while others may think differently...

For instance, the Echo PB-755 is often described as anemic but with the end tube replaced by the one used on the PB-265L it works better for me than the Shindaiwa EB-802 while burning much less gas. On the other hand, it is heavier and not as comfortable...

Alan0354
07-21-2009, 01:52 AM
I made the chart so it is easy to compare the specs of these blowers and that is all.

The performance index I calculated is an easy way to compare their raw performance but the rest is a matter of personal opinion.

For a specific job, one blower will appear better than another one to some users while others may think differently...

For instance, the Echo PB-755 is often described as anemic but with the end tube replaced by the one used on the PB-265L it works better for me than the Shindaiwa EB-802 while burning much less gas. On the other hand, it is heavier and not as comfortable...

I don't mean to put down your chart, you did a very good job. I am just confused.

You brought up a very good point. I remember when I first got my Maruyama BL8100(same as Kawi), I took out one section of the tube. It was not that impressive. I kept thinking it was just so so. It was months later when I put back the middle section, day and night difference!!! It is much stronger now. I think it really depend on the size of the spot the blower blows, the bigger the spot, the weaker at any given spot is. I believe the strength is 1/(radius of the spot)^2. So the strength at any spot drop by square of the radius.

We still don't have 802 in Kalif yet!!!

cinquefoil
07-21-2009, 01:58 AM
Very true Happy Frog, personal preference and opinion are another matter besides the specs. Good point about the blower tube too. A smaller tube or end reduces CFM but increases velocity. What do you think about the CFM at the housing? Is that a truer indicator of what the blower is actually cabable of putting out? Some have a big drop from the housing to the nozzle while others are closer in number. This must be due to the variations in the tube length, diameter and nozzle design. Just curiosity on my part. Somewhere in there it's just plain physics.

Now you're making us think! Good job.

Happy Frog
07-21-2009, 02:20 AM
My personal opinion is that most of the blowers on the chart are good blowers and four of them are very good.
They will perform well and do the job.
The rest is a matter of personal preference. Best way to chose is to ask specific questions to reliable users. Then, go try them and ask more questions.

For instance, I like my Shindaiwa EB-802 a lot but I dislike the position of the primer bulb which is not easily accessible (under the carb and behind two fuel lines). I hate the tank opening location making it difficult to refill without spilling gas all over. It needs the small nozzle to perform at its best (except for leaves) and I think it burns too much gas compared to the Echo PB-755.

I like my Echo PB-755 a lot but it is heavy and not very comfortable. It needs to have its end tube replaced by the same as the PB-265L to perform at its best (except for leaves) and the pull to start is a bit hard. Also, the "S" hooks at the bottom of the harness are some ***** to deal with.

I would not attach much importance to the numbers given at the housing because the blower is useless without the tubes and depending on the design of the compressor impeller, they can really affect the end performance.

cinquefoil
07-21-2009, 02:47 AM
There is s good analogy made at the RedMax site about CFM and velocity. Which would do a better job, air coming out of a straw at 500 mph, or a jet engine at 100 mph? Quite the extreme, but the point is made. Airflow and velocity are both important and in theory whichever machine pushed the most air at the highest velcity should be the best performer, but in reality, is it? :laugh:

Happy Frog
07-21-2009, 11:47 AM
I hope this will close the subject on volume vs. speed:

Dynamic pressure is the component of fluid pressure representing the fluid kinetic energy.

Dynamic pressure is a defined property of a moving flow of gas or liquid and can be expressed as

PD = 1/2 P x V^2

where

PD = dynamic pressure (Pa)
P = density of fluid (kg/m3)
V = velocity (m/s)

In other words, the kinetic energy of the air flow coming out a blower tube is equal to:

1/2 the mass of air multiplied by the square of the air speed

The actual mass of air will depend on many factors like temperature and moisture content but is a direct relation of the air volume for any given conditions.

You can masturbate your intellect all you want but at the end of the day, this Kinetic energy is the actual energy (moving force) produced by the blower.

Don't be a fool, stay in school...

Alan0354
07-21-2009, 12:33 PM
I hope this will close the subject on volume vs. speed:

Dynamic pressure is the component of fluid pressure representing the fluid kinetic energy.

Dynamic pressure is a defined property of a moving flow of gas or liquid and can be expressed as

PD = 1/2 P x V^2

where

PD = dynamic pressure (Pa)
P = density of fluid (kg/m3)
V = velocity (m/s)

In other words, the kinetic energy of the air flow coming out a blower tube is equal to:

1/2 the mass of air multiplied by the square of the air speed

The actual mass of air will depend on many factors like temperature and moisture content but is a direct relation of the air volume for any given conditions.

You can masturbate your intellect all you want but at the end of the day, this Kinetic energy is the actual energy (moving force) produced by the blower.

Don't be a fool, stay in school...

I know you are an engineer, my question is how reliable are the numbers given by the manufacturer. All the talk about the tube and all, but how sure are we on the numbers.

Happy Frog
07-21-2009, 01:40 PM
I believe the numbers given by manufacturers to be reasonably accurate but the conditions these numbers where taken under vary (ie: tubes or no tubes for the weight given).

The suitability for a blower to perform a specific job (ie: blowing wet leaves) will not depend only on the kinetic energy of the air flow.
The tubes design has a lot to do with the "reach" and shape of the air flow.

Raw data is only a part of the equation and user feed back is important deciding factor.

The question is: How reliable is user feedback? ;)

We've all seen these posts claiming "My blower is the best, all the others are crap..."

Who to believe? :confused:

I think the chart I made is a good starting point as it gives you all a broad view of what is available and how they compare to each others in terms of advertised performance.

You will have to do your own homework for the rest of it...

barlowlawncare
07-21-2009, 08:22 PM
wow all this math! I never realized blowers got so much attention, we use two redmax one is smaller and lighter I think its like a 6500 the other is heavier and more powerful I think its like the 8200 or something but my point is usually the first person to grab a blower grabs the smaller, lighter, more comfortable one, the both do the job with no problem at all, so at the end of the day the only thing that really matters is how comfortable it is use. I think pretty much all comercial blowers on the market will blow grass and leaves with ease, so it just boils down to ease of use and comfort in my book. Now can you make a chart for trimmers?? I love the chart though cause i just like to know what is out there so when i buy I can say performance wise specs are good and its light and comfortable. So how bout it trimmers?

mictrik
07-22-2009, 03:54 AM
I made the chart so it is easy to compare the specs of these blowers and that is all.

The performance index I calculated is an easy way to compare their raw performance but the rest is a matter of personal opinion.

For a specific job, one blower will appear better than another one to some users while others may think differently...

For instance, the Echo PB-755 is often described as anemic but with the end tube replaced by the one used on the PB-265L it works better for me than the Shindaiwa EB-802 while burning much less gas. On the other hand, it is heavier and not as comfortable...

Happy frog, using the the PB-755 with its standard tube and the EB-802 with its standard (large tube) how do you compare the two?

Also, I want to state that Shindaiwa is using the small tube (65mm) to come up with the 224 MPH velocity figure and the 74mm tube to come up with the 762 CFM volume figure. This is deceiving as the unit will never be able to deliver 224 MPH at 762 CFM. Your use of the Kinetic energy formula (EK = (1/2)mv2) is fine so long as you have "true" values but when applying to Shindaiwa we have a problem because Shindaiwa marketing has chosen to be a bit deceitful and only published maximum figures for volume and velocity with and without the 65mm nozzle. So unless you obtain the figures for CFM with the 65mm nozzle and/or MPH for 74mm nozzle we can not use this formula to compare the Shindaiwa blowers. This of course is not to say that EB-802 is not powerful as it is very powerful and I recently bought one but it is not as powerful as those very high figures would produce. I do believe that the EB-802 may well be the best high performance BP blower on the market when considering all factors.

Happy Frog
07-22-2009, 12:17 PM
This is very true.
I can only use the figures available to me. One way to to check the air speed without the small nozzle is to use an airplane pitot tube and correct the reading for ISA conditions.
With the big tubes on boths, I feel the Shindi has more blowing power.

Alan0354
07-22-2009, 01:01 PM
This is so true about Shindaiwa. I have the EBZ3410 hand held. Spec said 398cfm and 199mph at the tube. I came with two tubes, I can assure you the spec are from two different tubes.

brucec32
08-31-2009, 11:29 AM
Can some knowledgeable person (one who has experience with more than 1-2 brands) point me to a blower that:

1. has very good performance in terms of moving stuff (ala Echo 755)
2. but is lighter and more comfortable
3. and is reasonably reliable

Happy Frog
08-31-2009, 02:35 PM
Can some knowledgeable person (one who has experience with more than 1-2 brands) point me to a blower that:

1. has very good performance in terms of moving stuff (ala Echo 755)
2. but is lighter and more comfortable
3. and is reasonably reliable

Put a smaller end tube on your Echo 755 (the one from the PB-265L) and you will not want to change your blower.
If you really want to spend the money, the Shindi EB-802 will do just fine.
It is much more confortable then the Echo.

lawns Etc
08-31-2009, 03:58 PM
The lightest and most comfortable is the Stihl BR600 by far but raw power is the Redmax 8001 I havent tried the Shin 802 but hear good things. The Echo 755 is very uncomfortable IMO

Alan0354
09-01-2009, 03:22 AM
Can some knowledgeable person (one who has experience with more than 1-2 brands) point me to a blower that:

1. has very good performance in terms of moving stuff (ala Echo 755)
2. but is lighter and more comfortable
3. and is reasonably reliable

Kawasaki KRB750 or Maruyama BL8100. It is the lightest of all, cheapest of all, very comfortable for me. Lowest noise spec. 2 pull start, no warmup.

The engine is Kawasaki TK65 which is also being used on John Deer and some European brands. So the engine has been pretty well provened. Never heard of anything bad about it.

About power, I am sure you can find more powerful ones, you can't compare with the 70+cc blowers. But you mentioned PB755, should give Echo a good run for the money.

Turfeagle sell the Maruyama online for only $369!!! You get a big blower for the price and weight of a medium size blower like Stihl BR420, Echo 610.

I am not saying it is not as strong as the other big blowers, I just have not compare them.

Happy Frog
09-01-2009, 11:07 AM
+1 for the Kawasaki KBR750.
It's light, quiet and has a lot of power.
A very good blower indeed. :drinkup:

brucec32
09-01-2009, 11:00 PM
Thanks guys, I had picked the Kawi/Maru out from my research so that is good confirmation. The price sure is right. There are dealers for them nearby so parts should not be a problem down the line. I would miss the ability to just mail order parts with the echos. But that's less important than comfort.

I'm getting another blower, not a replacement for the Echo 750, it's starting to get some age on it and I think lose a little power and I like to place them into "reserve" as quality backups before they wear to where they are not good for much anymore. I just thought it'd be nice to have a lighter one.

gogreenmaureen
09-19-2009, 04:58 PM
My original RedMax 7001 was lighter than the 8001. To me the 8001 blew harder but was heavy. Our newer 7001 feels like the same weight as the 8001. I wanted a lighter one my husband and dealer say the lighter one doesn't blow any where as well. We use the two 7001. It does work well. In tight areas we get out the rakes. I lower the blower so not to remove mulch from beds. They start with one pull but take a little to warm up. And as long as I grab mine it fits fine. But like I said I never used any other.

Alan0354
09-19-2009, 05:05 PM
My original RedMax 7001 was lighter than the 8001. To me the 8001 blew harder but was heavy. Our newer 7001 feels like the same weight as the 8001. I wanted a lighter one my husband and dealer say the lighter one doesn't blow any where as well. We use the two 7001. It does work well. In tight areas we get out the rakes. I lower the blower so not to remove mulch from beds. They start with one pull but take a little to warm up. And as long as I grab mine it fits fine. But like I said I never used any other.

I think you will find Maru/Kawi big blower much lighter, cheaper and likely stronger than EBZ7001. Also a lot quieter.

RJGiants75
10-20-2009, 12:46 PM
Thanks for putting this list together. I originally had a Redmax EBZ7100 and felt that it was lacking power and wasn't as light as I thought it would be. Sold.

I then bought the BR 600 and even though it felt great on the back, again it didn't feel as strong as I thought it would. Sold.

Picked up the Shindaiwa EB802RT and love it. Has plenty of power ,comfortable(great padding & straps) and isn't too heavy.Pretty much what I was looking for.

Alan0354
10-20-2009, 04:49 PM
Leaf season is here and I started to use my Maruyama BL8100( Kawi KRB750). I remember a lot of you guys said something like "My blower is so strong that it to push me around!!" or " I can blow bricks!!!"

I felt none of them. Never even push me a little!!!! Won't move bricks until I get really close. I was starting to think something might be wrong with mine. This is until I pull out my 34cc Shindaiwa EB3410 hand held to do some final touch......Then I notice the huge difference in the blowing power!!!!! My Shindy is no dog, it only eclipsed by the Maru BL3100!!!

Are you guys exaggerating just a little?:laugh::laugh:

I never try another blower so I can't judge myself.

Richard Martin
10-20-2009, 05:25 PM
My BR600 will easily move a brick. I also constantly find myself leaning into it when using it. You just need a bigger blower.

brucec32
10-21-2009, 12:31 AM
Leaf season is here and I started to use my Maruyama BL8100( Kawi KRB750). I remember a lot of you guys said something like "My blower is so strong that it to push me around!!" or " I can blow bricks!!!"

I felt none of them. Never even push me a little!!!! Won't move bricks until I get really close. I was starting to think something might be wrong with mine. This is until I pull out my 34cc Shindaiwa EB3410 hand held to do some final touch......Then I notice the huge difference in the blowing power!!!!! My Shindy is no dog, it only eclipsed by the Maru BL3100!!!

Are you guys exaggerating just a little?:laugh::laugh:

I never try another blower so I can't judge myself.


I have to agree here. My Kawi 750 does not have the power the echo pb 750 does. It's not weak, but it is not quite as powerful. The echo would spin itself in place when you started it at full throttle. This machine won't even come close.

I am ok with it, as it is much lighter and for the same weight as a smaller echo, it does outperform them slightly. But, despite what the chart provided says, it is not superior to the echo big blowers. This just goes to show that numbers aren't everything, and that there is plenty of fudge room from manufacturers in that regard.

I also noticed that it seems to really suck gas! It's not scientific, but I find myself refilling much more often than expected, even in routine "blow off the driveway" situations. It sounds fine, cranks easy, and I assume it is not defective. But this just goes to show that there is a tendency to built in bias towards machines one owns when reviewing them.

Thankfully I don't blow leaves accross lawns, I mulch. But if I needed to blow leaves into piles or something, I'd be wanting a more powerful unit. I also still have the echo for that, even though I've had some trouble with it running weak unless I choke it a little.

Alan0354
10-21-2009, 02:12 AM
I have to agree here. My Kawi 750 does not have the power the echo pb 750 does. It's not weak, but it is not quite as powerful. The echo would spin itself in place when you started it at full throttle. This machine won't even come close.

I am ok with it, as it is much lighter and for the same weight as a smaller echo, it does outperform them slightly. But, despite what the chart provided says, it is not superior to the echo big blowers. This just goes to show that numbers aren't everything, and that there is plenty of fudge room from manufacturers in that regard.

I also noticed that it seems to really suck gas! It's not scientific, but I find myself refilling much more often than expected, even in routine "blow off the driveway" situations. It sounds fine, cranks easy, and I assume it is not defective. But this just goes to show that there is a tendency to built in bias towards machines one owns when reviewing them.

Thankfully I don't blow leaves accross lawns, I mulch. But if I needed to blow leaves into piles or something, I'd be wanting a more powerful unit. I also still have the echo for that, even though I've had some trouble with it running weak unless I choke it a little.

I look at it the same way, it price cheaper than the Echo PB620 and is still a little lighter. I agree it is thirsty. I don't think one full tank ( half gallon ) can last two and half hours. I don't have piles of leaves, we just don't in our area. Most of the people use Husky 150Bt or Echo PB413 which make mine a monster already!!!

Wish I know someone that have RM8001 or BR600 so I can take it for a spin and see are they really that awsome!!!

TandM
10-21-2009, 10:46 AM
Shindaiwa 8520 will be my next blower. ITs way mor ecomforatable then the 8510. and the blowing power is amazing!

mictrik
10-21-2009, 12:05 PM
Shindaiwa 8520 will be my next blower. ITs way mor ecomforatable then the 8510. and the blowing power is amazing!

My understanding and bet is that the EB8520 will be comparable to the EB802 in power. Would love to hear from anyone who has experience with both... Personally, I would go with a 2 cycle over the 4 cycle and since i never hear much about the EB8520 I have to assume that I am not alone in that opinion. In terms of power output I can only say that the numbers that Shindaiwa publish are bogus. The air speed for eb802 was just dropped from 224 to 211 MPH. They provide two nozzles with their blowers and do not publish results for each nozzle nor state which nozzle the published numbers represent. Other manufacturers have also played "games" with their specs to include Stihl and Redmax so we as "consumers" are on are own.

TandM
10-21-2009, 04:14 PM
I cannot confirm the numbers obviously. but i have demoed both and I felt that the 8520 had a little more oomph. I normally would have gone with the eb 802 but my 8510 has been so great I bought it the day my dealer got one. and I havent had a problem with it yet! knock on would haha and thats been what almost 2 years? so Im just gonna keep a good thing going starts on the 2nd pull every time!

mowzilla
10-23-2009, 10:57 PM
I own a redmax eb4300 and a shindaiwa eb8520rt..
i use a stihl br420 mag and br600 4 days a week at day job..

i used my new eb8520rt today to blow a huge church in the rain and it simply has no competition.. it feels stronger than the br 600.. i am going to take the shindy into my day job and run her head to head with the br600 next week and will swap out with my asst supervisor (i am the supervisor on my truck at day job) to see if feels the same way. i have worn the stihl and shinny 8520 for 4+ hrs each and the shinny is may more comfy..and as far as running quality and fuel consumption, the eb8520rt beats the stihl there too. i get approximately 1 hr 20 min out of tank on the br 600, got 1 hr 35 min out of a tank on the shinny at continous wide oprn throttle.. wow!!

results a.s.a.p..

from my experience over the last few years, the reliability, performance, and productivity of a shindaiwa simply has no equal..

demhustler
10-24-2009, 01:12 AM
how they measuring cfm? seems like there is no standard procedure or agency to certify manufacturer's numbers
with liquid would be easy to confirm - just pump from one bucket to
another : )))

anyway - may be take comparable units, barn with no wind, and blow pile of leaves from one corner to another few times...? then we can compare average time & performance

Green Industry Pro
11-30-2009, 05:11 PM
Nice chart!!

LKNBigFish
11-30-2009, 06:38 PM
I have had the blower on my km130 for a few months and can't believe the power.

brucec32
12-01-2009, 01:53 AM
Ok, after getting the Echo PB-750 running nicely again (carb probs) and comparing it to the new Kawi KRB750 I got, I can confirm that the Echo (a few years old) is noticeably more powerful than the Kawi. The Kawi is lighter and cheaper, but output is more like the midsized Echos. This is despite the nice chart that shows numbers that should make it superior to the large Echo blower it's compared to. The Echo really moves heavy concentrations of leaves better, and even moves lighter stuff faster it seems.

I also feel the durability of the Kawi is slightly off that of the Echo. Still, it should be fine for owner-operator use.

I'll use the Kawi April-Sept and save the Echo hours for leaf work. The lighter weight unit is fine for routine use, but it seems there is no free lunch here in terms of weight and cost. Lighter and cheaper does come at a price in max power.

Alan0354
12-01-2009, 03:09 AM
Ok, after getting the Echo PB-750 running nicely again (carb probs) and comparing it to the new Kawi KRB750 I got, I can confirm that the Echo (a few years old) is noticeably more powerful than the Kawi. The Kawi is lighter and cheaper, but output is more like the midsized Echos. This is despite the nice chart that shows numbers that should make it superior to the large Echo blower it's compared to. The Echo really moves heavy concentrations of leaves better, and even moves lighter stuff faster it seems.

I also feel the durability of the Kawi is slightly off that of the Echo. Still, it should be fine for owner-operator use.

I'll use the Kawi April-Sept and save the Echo hours for leaf work. The lighter weight unit is fine for routine use, but it seems there is no free lunch here in terms of weight and cost. Lighter and cheaper does come at a price in max power.

I notice the Kawi take a while to break in. Not 10 or 20 hours. I feel my Maru which is the exact same as the Kawi get a lot stronger after a while. At the begining, it was not very strong.

Happy Frog
12-08-2009, 11:40 PM
how they measuring cfm? seems like there is no standard procedure or agency to certify manufacturer's numbers
with liquid would be easy to confirm - just pump from one bucket to
another : )))

anyway - may be take comparable units, barn with no wind, and blow pile of leaves from one corner to another few times...? then we can compare average time & performance

CFM is measured as it is: it is the volume of air in cubic feet the blower will move in one minute.
To be accurate and comparable, it should be measured under ISA conditions (Seal level and 15 degrees celsius).

Pennington Lawncare
04-19-2010, 07:45 AM
I wish the engine displacement was in cc's and not cubic inches. We're talking about small engines, not big blocks.

Richard Martin
04-19-2010, 08:39 AM
I wish the engine displacement was in cc's and not cubic inches. We're talking about small engines, not big blocks.

Here you go...

http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm