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Whitaker24
03-28-2009, 09:40 AM
Guys this year seems we have clover everywhere. I have been told to put out weed and feed to help so i did. I have noticed the dandelions going away. The clover seems to not be effected. What more can I do? Im almost to the point of tilling up sections of my yard in 20x20 sections and starting over. If I start over i plan to till up old soil and clover ect, rake it up, then plant new grass. I live in SC how should I do the seed, fertlizer ect. In the past I just put it out and then put hay over the top of it.

Looking for grass what will not be too high ect. I would love to plant golf course grass, but not sure it will grow.

If I can get rid of the clover without all this i would be more than happy to.
Thanks for any help.

betmr
03-28-2009, 12:58 PM
If you till it up without kill the Clover, you will probably still get clover, as clover is one of those plants that sets roots from each of those little nodes. If you don't rake out every one of them, they will root and come right back. You need to get a liquid herbicide especially for clover and spot treat it. most times this will take 2 applications spaced as per LABEL.

If you plan to Renovate, I would suggest you spray w/ round up wait 14 days, till and rake smooth then plant new seed.

Whitaker24
03-28-2009, 03:39 PM
would u recommend any particular ones?

david shumaker
03-28-2009, 06:57 PM
I had to spray the clover in my yard 3 times to kill it. I only had a small area of clover and now wish I had left it there. A little clover doesn't hurt anything and actually adds nitrogen.

Bumble Bees like clover and now I miss the little bees since I killed the clover.

david shumaker
03-28-2009, 07:00 PM
would u recommend any particular ones?

I've been using SpeedZone for broadleaf weeds.

BostonBull
03-28-2009, 07:27 PM
Do you not like the look of the clover? if you mow high enough the clover is covered and cant be seen. Clover are natures little N machines. They produce pounds of N per sq/ft in a year and dont do anything bad besides look different. Scott's used to sell clover to homeowners in the 40's and 50' for this very reason. I personally leave mine, mow high (like you should anyways) and enjoy the free fertilizer!

http://www.allaboutlawns.com/lawn-weeds-pests/removing-the-clover-from-your-lawn.php

http://www.lesslawn.com/articles/article1061.html

Whitaker24
03-28-2009, 09:53 PM
I just have so much of it. Its thick to say the least Ill see if I can get some photos. I dont mind it in lil spots here and there, but over septic lines ect its tough to cut. I have some beside my garage, off my back porch, next to my sons play areas.


I mow on 3" cut. If I go higher Ill have to mow my yard every week without rain. We live in what used to be a pasture, so the lawn yard grows fast.

Sweet Tater
03-28-2009, 10:24 PM
try 2-4-d, its its for your own lawn you dont have to be lic, it will kill broad leaf weeds suck as clover, wild onions,dandilions and such.

BostonBull
03-28-2009, 10:30 PM
try 2-4-d, its its for your own lawn you dont have to be lic, it will kill broad leaf weeds suck as clover, wild onions,dandilions and such.

And your son, dog, cat, etc etc Toxic stuff I wouldnt want near my family!

Mowing once a week is normal. 3" is good for the height. if it is getting too thick try some corn gluten meal, or vinegar for a more natural solution...?

GracesLandscaping
03-28-2009, 11:58 PM
And your son, dog, cat, etc etc Toxic stuff I wouldnt want near my family!

Mowing once a week is normal. 3" is good for the height. if it is getting too thick try some corn gluten meal, or vinegar for a more natural solution...?

2-4-D is basically the best thing for this. most all type of weed out mix has the main ingrediant of 2-4-D

Whitey4
03-29-2009, 09:26 AM
And your son, dog, cat, etc etc Toxic stuff I wouldnt want near my family!

Mowing once a week is normal. 3" is good for the height. if it is getting too thick try some corn gluten meal, or vinegar for a more natural solution...?

Seriously? Are you aware that vinegar is five times more toxic than Roundup is? (Based on EPA LD50 testing) And that it has an incredibly long half life, 50 to 100 times longer than Roundup? The toxicity of vinegar will build up in the soil as well because it takes so long to volatize. Corn gluten meal? Very expensive, and it takes 3 years of applications to become 80% effective for weed control.

Arsenic is natural too. Maybe try that...

BostonBull
03-29-2009, 09:34 AM
Seriously? Are you aware that vinegar is five times more toxic than Roundup is? (Based on EPA LD50 testing) And that it has an incredibly long half life, 50 to 100 times longer than Roundup? The toxicity of vinegar will build up in the soil as well because it takes so long to volatize. Corn gluten meal? Very expensive, and it takes 3 years of applications to become 80% effective for weed control.

Arsenic is natural too. Maybe try that...

Are we as a green industry more worried about the toxicity to the soil, or to oursleves and families? Great priorities! I have never heard of a dog dieing of vinegar poisoning, 2-4-d on the other hand.......!

BostonBull
03-29-2009, 09:36 AM
And again, a proper THICK lawn that is low in P, and not kept wet 24/7 will natuirally diminsh the "BAD" clover! lol Clover are great little plants, produce lots of N for free, and are easily kept in check without any chemicals, just proper lawn care.

Whitey4
03-29-2009, 10:08 AM
Are we as a green industry more worried about the toxicity to the soil, or to oursleves and families? Great priorities! I have never heard of a dog dieing of vinegar poisoning, 2-4-d on the other hand.......!

You have heard of a dog dying from exposure to 2,4-D? Please, I'd like to read about that. Just because something is "organic" or "natural" does not mean it MUST be safer than a man made chemical.

You make a big jump here pal, by assuming I place a priority of my soil above that of my family's safety. Typical knee jerk assinine comment from a biased tree hugger who lacks objectivity. Maybe you should stop putting gasoline in your car... that is awfully close to where your family sits in the car. But, clearly, you place a higher priority on getting somewhere than you do on your family's safety, right?

Marcos
03-29-2009, 10:25 AM
Seriously? Are you aware that vinegar is five times more toxic than Roundup is? (Based on EPA LD50 testing) And that it has an incredibly long half life, 50 to 100 times longer than Roundup? The toxicity of vinegar will build up in the soil as well because it takes so long to volatize. Corn gluten meal? Very expensive, and it takes 3 years of applications to become 80% effective for weed control.



Quote the name of the fish-wrapping from which you retrieved this information, Whitey.
Also, specific name of article & date.

betmr
03-29-2009, 10:54 AM
Are we as a green industry more worried about the toxicity to the soil, or to oursleves and families? Great priorities! I have never heard of a dog dieing of vinegar poisoning, 2-4-d on the other hand.......!

Yes we are a green industry. It happens that in the 40's & 50's there weren't the grass varieties we have today. Clover will grow almost anywhere, so it was used in grass mixes. If you like YOUR lawn to look like a pasture that is your choice. how about Dandelions, Chick Weed, Oxalis, etc. are they good for you also, I mean they must have a purpose... Dandelion wine? And tell me, just when are these little nitrogen factories putting all this nutrient back in the soil? When they're mowed. Well don't we get the same effect by mulch mowing our grass.

Sir think, IPM ( Integrated Pest Management). Pesticides ARE a part of IPM, you can look that up. Over time, Left unchecked, those weeds will take over, they Will crowd out the lawn, and most people don't want, I am one.

Properly spot treating weeds, will not kill your dog or your Children. Read the label, and allow the proper re-entry time, Oh and tell your children not to lick the grass.

As for attracting the bees and beneficial wasps? 1) who's to say the bee aren't just going to visit all those lovely clover flowers, and not spend much time w/ your Petunias. and 2) The wasps come for the pray, not the clover. So no pray, no wasps. Ever hear of someone buying a shipment of lady bugs, and find they were all gone a few days later, not enough pray, they went somewhere else, to get a meal.

IPM works for any pest problem, if your organic and you have aphids, get ladybugs, no aphids, save your money. Got weeds, Spot treat as per LABEL directions, and don't let them get out of hand.

You can do what you want w/YOUR clover, but remember this, your seeds are finding their way to your neighbor's yard, and he might not like clover as much as you. So he's out there spaying them, maybe you're adding to the pesticide dilemma.

I am licensed to apply pesticides in the state of NJ, and the lead groundskeeper at a University here, I attend regular seminars conducted by the NJEPA & Rutger's Turf Sciences Lab. I believe very strongly in IPM, and that pesticide's are a useful tool in conducting that type of program.

I advocate soil testing, as opposed to 3&4 step programs. And I believe strongly, that clover shades out grass & takes away the nutrients that could be feeding my Kentucky Blue. If you want a mess... go organic!

BostonBull
03-29-2009, 02:11 PM
Yes we are a green industry. It happens that in the 40's & 50's there weren't the grass varieties we have today. Clover will grow almost anywhere, so it was used in grass mixes. If you like YOUR lawn to look like a pasture that is your choice. how about Dandelions, Chick Weed, Oxalis, etc. are they good for you also, I mean they must have a purpose... Dandelion wine? And tell me, just when are these little nitrogen factories putting all this nutrient back in the soil? When they're mowed. Well don't we get the same effect by mulch mowing our grass.

Sir think, IPM ( Integrated Pest Management). Pesticides ARE a part of IPM, you can look that up. Over time, Left unchecked, those weeds will take over, they Will crowd out the lawn, and most people don't want, I am one.

Properly spot treating weeds, will not kill your dog or your Children. Read the label, and allow the proper re-entry time, Oh and tell your children not to lick the grass.

As for attracting the bees and beneficial wasps? 1) who's to say the bee aren't just going to visit all those lovely clover flowers, and not spend much time w/ your Petunias. and 2) The wasps come for the pray, not the clover. So no pray, no wasps. Ever hear of someone buying a shipment of lady bugs, and find they were all gone a few days later, not enough pray, they went somewhere else, to get a meal.

IPM works for any pest problem, if your organic and you have aphids, get ladybugs, no aphids, save your money. Got weeds, Spot treat as per LABEL directions, and don't let them get out of hand.

You can do what you want w/YOUR clover, but remember this, your seeds are finding their way to your neighbor's yard, and he might not like clover as much as you. So he's out there spaying them, maybe you're adding to the pesticide dilemma.

I am licensed to apply pesticides in the state of NJ, and the lead groundskeeper at a University here, I attend regular seminars conducted by the NJEPA & Rutger's Turf Sciences Lab. I believe very strongly in IPM, and that pesticide's are a useful tool in conducting that type of program.

I advocate soil testing, as opposed to 3&4 step programs. And I believe strongly, that clover shades out grass & takes away the nutrients that could be feeding my Kentucky Blue. If you want a mess... go organic!


Ill take it line by line

Clover takes what in needs from the air and PRODUCES nitrogen, which it then pumps back into the soil. It doesnt produce it when it is mowed...? That would mean that clover is only good as long as it is mulched back into the soil??? Maybe do some further reading on the subject. Clover, in a nice thick lawn is hardly noticeable, aside from when it flowers. I value the benefits of it, and see no reason to kill it off when its in small patches. Dandelions, chick weeds, etc are invasive and WILL take over if left unchecked. I hand pluck the few I have in my lawn, much cheaper.

Yes you are correct on IPM. Clover is not a pest, rather its a beneficial and easy to control via proper mow height, water, and low P.

Easy enough to spot treat, but the OP is talking his whole lawn! Ever try to TELL a toddler/small child not to put something in their mouths? haha

Never touted the wasps, dont care for em. Bees though are great! They love clover flower, and who knows, maybe thats the only flowers he has on his property this time of year?

your last statement wreaks of ignorance! "Organic" only refers to the carbon ratio of an ingredient. Different argument thats been covered in hundreds of pages!

Whitey4
03-29-2009, 02:22 PM
Quote the name of the fish-wrapping from which you retrieved this information, Whitey.
Also, specific name of article & date.

You can kiss me where the sun don't shine, Marcos. Go Google it yourself, search for LD50 numbers on Roundup and 14% acedic acid. I've already done that, and I won't repeat that excersice because the likes of you called me out. Go look it up yourself. You organic guys like to do that sort of thing... go have some fun.

BostonBull
03-29-2009, 02:28 PM
You have heard of a dog dying from exposure to 2,4-D? Please, I'd like to read about that. Just because something is "organic" or "natural" does not mean it MUST be safer than a man made chemical.

You make a big jump here pal, by assuming I place a priority of my soil above that of my family's safety. Typical knee jerk assinine comment from a biased tree hugger who lacks objectivity. Maybe you should stop putting gasoline in your car... that is awfully close to where your family sits in the car. But, clearly, you place a higher priority on getting somewhere than you do on your family's safety, right?


Why resort to name calling? You get that irate over someone not wanting to use toxins on their lawns?

Why am I a treehugger? For being an educated Arborist who excels in his field? Then guilty as charged.

Never heard of a cars gasoline killing children. 2-4-d is a toxin to humans, wildlife, and pets alike. heres the governments take on it.....pretty toxic stuff if it gets on your skin, eyes, lungs, etc etc. How about in streams?!
http://www.epa.gov/ttn/atw/hlthef/di-oxyac.html

If that argument of yours about gasoline is true then you should NEVER give anything from a refrigerator to your family. See, those things are filled with a toxic refrigerant that is lethal! Whats more important, food or your family!? hahaha run for a cave in the hills were all gonna be killed by cars and gasoline!!!!!

BostonBull
03-29-2009, 02:30 PM
You can kiss me where the sun don't shine, Marcos. Go Google it yourself, search for LD50 numbers on Roundup and 14% acedic acid. I've already done that, and I won't repeat that excersice because the likes of you called me out. Go look it up yourself. You organic guys like to do that sort of thing... go have some fun.


Thats a quite grownup response! How old are you, 20? YOU made the statement WE asked for proof. No proof, means your a storyteller and fearmonger. Way to make yourself look like an ignoramus!

Whitey4
03-29-2009, 02:51 PM
OK, Marcos... this should keep you occupied for awhile:

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/dienochlor-glyphosate/glyphosate-ext.html

http://www.nvcc.edu/alexandria/science/MSDSweb/Vinegar7percent.htm

http://www.cem.msu.edu/~reusch/VirtualText/cem&soc.htm

http://www.aenews.wsu.edu/Feb01AENews/Feb01AENews.htm#anchor5338542

:cool2:

BostonBull
03-29-2009, 03:10 PM
2 articles about Glysophate, a very low toxic herbicide. One article from 1994, impressive!

One about INDUSTRIAL vinegar. "Organic tree huggers" use white vinegar. FYI.

Nothing about the extremely toxic 2-4-d....?

Whitey4
03-29-2009, 03:19 PM
2 articles about Glysophate, a very low toxic herbicide. One article from 1994, impressive!

One about INDUSTRIAL vinegar. "Organic tree huggers" use white vinegar. FYI.

Nothing about the extremely toxic 2-4-d....?

Here ya go.... 2,4-D is hazardous to the applicator, not so much for anyone else...

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/24d-captan/24d-ext.html

And where is this link to 2,4-D killing any dogs? That IS what you said, right? Let's see some proof, and not an old wive's tale. You told me to put up... I did. Now you put up, or shut up.

ussoldierforhire
03-29-2009, 03:22 PM
bout to hit my clover today with some Bayers

BostonBull
03-29-2009, 04:30 PM
Nasty stuff! kills fish, dogs, prevents honeybees from giving birth and kills the hive......
like anything when used in moderation, by a proffessional, its fine. Homeowners should use caution, IMO.

http://www.sierraclub.ca/national/programs/health-environment/pesticides/2-4-D-overview.pdf

http://www.audubon.org/bird/at_home/pdf/LawnFlyer.pdf

http://www.fs.fed.us/foresthealth/pesticide/pdfs/093006_24d.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/09/04/us/lawn-herbicide-called-cancer-risk-for-dogs.html?sec=health Oder article, you like those, right?

http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/24-D.htm

Whitey4
03-29-2009, 05:16 PM
Nasty stuff! kills fish, dogs, prevents honeybees from giving birth and kills the hive......
like anything when used in moderation, by a proffessional, its fine. Homeowners should use caution, IMO.

http://www.sierraclub.ca/national/programs/health-environment/pesticides/2-4-D-overview.pdf

http://www.audubon.org/bird/at_home/pdf/LawnFlyer.pdf

http://www.fs.fed.us/foresthealth/pesticide/pdfs/093006_24d.pdf

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/09/04/us/lawn-herbicide-called-cancer-risk-for-dogs.html?sec=health Oder article, you like those, right?

http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/24-D.htm

Finally some sense.... yes, when applied properly by a trained professional, used in moderation, it's fine. The problem is the home owners who always think if this much is good, twice as much must be better!

I'm actually a died in the wool IPM person, and only use pesticides when I feel that economic loss outwieghs the risk of using chemical controls. Most things can be fixed with cultural controls and using things like clean compost and other things that don't involve more toxic substances, and when I say that, I mean to include some the the "safe organic" chemicals as well.

Vinegar has no place in my arsenal. Compost tea, some manures and compost are an integral part of my IPM program. I'll say it again... Roundup is SAFER than vinegar. 2,4-D is obviously more toxic than vinegar is.

Glyphosate has been around so long, research from 1998 is no less relevant than most more recent studies. I want to see more sudies on vinegar. Gly has been studied to death, and it's still proven very safe to use. They haven't even scratched the surface on what vinegar can harm. Gly breaks down... acetic acid does not.

BostonBull
03-29-2009, 06:02 PM
Finally some sense.... yes, when applied properly by a trained professional, used in moderation, it's fine. The problem is the home owners who always think if this much is good, twice as much must be better!

I'm actually a died in the wool IPM person, and only use pesticides when I feel that economic loss outwieghs the risk of using chemical controls. Most things can be fixed with cultural controls and using things like clean compost and other things that don't involve more toxic substances, and when I say that, I mean to include some the the "safe organic" chemicals as well.

Vinegar has no place in my arsenal. Compost tea, some manures and compost are an integral part of my IPM program. I'll say it again... Roundup is SAFER than vinegar. 2,4-D is obviously more toxic than vinegar is.

Glyphosate has been around so long, research from 1998 is no less relevant than most more recent studies. I want to see more sudies on vinegar. Gly has been studied to death, and it's still proven very safe to use. They haven't even scratched the surface on what vinegar can harm. Gly breaks down... acetic acid does not.

What a thoughtful post! Very different from earlier.

Some parts of this post make you sound like a dirty organic tree hugger though! :drinkup:

Whitey4
03-29-2009, 07:12 PM
What a thoughtful post! Very different from earlier.

Some parts of this post make you sound like a dirty organic tree hugger though! :drinkup:

There is always a reasonable middle ground that reasonable people can reach. LI has had serious ground water problems, nitrates, merit, and other issues. I AM sensitive to the environmental impact of ANY application, be it "natural", "organic" or synthetic. I don't care what you put down, there is always SOME kind of impact on the balance of things. A professional can apply most controls and keep risk to people, pets, the water supply and the environment at an extremely reasonable minimum.

You happened to post about vinegar and CGM. They are both ineffective, CGM is quite expensive, and even after 3 years, only 80 to 85% control can be expected. Vinegar gets this free ride because we eat it. I love the stuff. Malt vinegar on fish and chips, red on salads, cider in cole slaw. I've never put roundup on a salad, and I'll never taste it either voluntarilly, but the data does say it's safer than vinegar.

I am certified, and environmentally responsible. I don't pollute my client's property, I maintain them responsibly. I will use any control that is in my arsenal, as long as I believe it to be effective, cost efficient and safe. For instance, I HATE when guys talk about most "preventative" apps. I will only resort to a grub control as a last resort, never as a preventative. But I'll be derned if I'll watch a lawn die from grub infestations on one of my customer's lawns either. I'll treat when I need to.

Sorry, but you struck me as an extremist, and I have never met an extremeist I respected. Life and horticulture are not black and white issues, there is always much more gray than the pure extremes. All controls have their place. Refusing to use any synthetics is as bad as refusing to use any organics. We have many tools... we should use all of them responsibly.

Off soap box.

david shumaker
03-29-2009, 07:46 PM
I realize alot of people like nice lawns, but from what I understand, the worst your lawn looks and the more weeds, the better it is for nature. My neighbor down the street has the worst yard on the block. Her yard is mostly what other people don't want....weeds, etc..... but all the birds, butterflys, bumblebees, etc. flock to her yard.

When I go by her house, I see a variety of this wildlife that I don't see on the well manicured yards.

So, all this yard care stuff could just be bunk anyway.

BostonBull
03-29-2009, 07:47 PM
Life and horticulture are not black and white issues, there is always much more gray than the pure extremes. All controls have their place. Refusing to use any synthetics is as bad as refusing to use any organics. We have many tools... we should use all of them responsibly.

Off soap box.

:clapping:

betmr
03-29-2009, 10:33 PM
:clapping:

Just want to say that I too am professional, trained & licensed by the NJEPA as a commercial pesticide applicator. I attend continuing education through NJEPA & Rutger's Turf Science Dept. on a regular basis, and I take all of this stuff very seriously, and I don't go around spraying pesticides willy nilly. Now you may go out and hand pull your weeds, but most people don't think about that until it is too late. I treat only what is necessary, & very rarely do I broadcast spray!!!

As you can tell by other posts of mine that you have read I advocate Soil tests for fert. apps. and not these step programs that are being pushed now adays by Co.s like Sc**s. I believe these programs are adding unnecessarily to much product. In this buis. I say add only what you need.

Oh, and as an Arborist, I hope you're not cutting down any Trees just because a customer doesn't want it there??? Or, God forbid, it's growing into the wires, I say let's get Greener, move the wires!

And 1 last thing "One man's flower(clover) is another man's WEED.:dancing:

Marcos
03-30-2009, 08:34 AM
OK, Marcos... this should keep you occupied for awhile:

http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/dienochlor-glyphosate/glyphosate-ext.html

http://www.nvcc.edu/alexandria/science/MSDSweb/Vinegar7percent.htm

http://www.cem.msu.edu/~reusch/VirtualText/cem&soc.htm

http://www.aenews.wsu.edu/Feb01AENews/Feb01AENews.htm#anchor5338542

:cool2:

Roundup........? :confused:
Who the hell brought Roundup into this discussion? :confused:

Whitey, If you get your head out of your ### long enough to stop posting unrelated information, and go back & look at this thread closely to see what was actually DISCUSSED, maybe you'll then be ready to join the discussion! :laugh:

BTW....vinegar used controlling weeds is not a 7% solution.
It's typically 15-20%!
And I've yet to have met anyone in the organic field that has come forth & admitted that they've COVER-SPRAYED a given section of lawn with 15-20% vinegar!!! (UH....Can you say "TORCH THE GRASS"? :laugh:)
That kind of stuff just isn't done by the organic crowd, Whitey!
They take their time doing things right the IPM way spotting every weed!

So, Whitey, taking THAT into consideration, what are the odds of toxic exposure to kids & pets in a 2, 4-d cover sprayed yard vs. that of a vinegar-sprayed IPM yard? :waving:

But getting to the real meat of the problem with 2,4-d:
Mainly because of the problem with 2,4-d's half-life in many heavier soil structures, I'd still take the chances of using a 20% vinegar in an IPM spot-treating mode, over the broadcast application of any 2,4-d based chemical.
There's simply too much risk of permanent damage being done to beneficial soil microbes over time with repeated blanket applications of 2, 4-d.

That's one of the key reasons why I never cover-spray ANYTHING, but instead offer IPM- inspired approaches in both traditional & (for lack of a better word) "non-traditional" means of weed control.
Nature can handle & process small doses of 2, 4-d (etc) "here & there" occasionally, just not blanket apps of it repeatedly.

ussoldierforhire
03-30-2009, 08:51 AM
I am about to spray my yard today with a 2,4-d product. how long should i keep dogs off the grass? in your opinion not the label's

Marcos
03-30-2009, 08:55 AM
Yes we are a green industry. It happens that in the 40's & 50's there weren't the grass varieties we have today. Clover will grow almost anywhere, so it was used in grass mixes. If you like YOUR lawn to look like a pasture that is your choice. how about Dandelions, Chick Weed, Oxalis, etc. are they good for you also, I mean they must have a purpose... Dandelion wine? And tell me, just when are these little nitrogen factories putting all this nutrient back in the soil? When they're mowed. Well don't we get the same effect by mulch mowing our grass.



betmr, you especially will be interested in reading through this 15-month-old thread....

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=210049&highlight=weed+recipes

The kids & I have been picking dandelion greens like crazy the last couple of weeks. :dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:
They're at their peak right now. Get 'em while their still young & sweet!:clapping: Two, three weeks from now, they'll start to become bitter, as they harden off in the warmer weather.

Marcos
03-30-2009, 08:57 AM
I am about to spray my yard today with a 2,4-d product. how long should i keep dogs off the grass? in your opinion not the label's

Do you like your dog? :rolleyes:

ussoldierforhire
03-30-2009, 09:24 AM
Do you like your dog? :rolleyes:

Haha, yeah. I only plan on one broad application of this stuff this year.

Marcos
03-30-2009, 10:17 AM
I am about to spray my yard today with a 2,4-d product. how long should i keep dogs off the grass? in your opinion not the label's

2, 4-d labels & most state laws call for 24 hrs before re-entry.

I personally wouldn't recommend that anyone (or any pet) enter turf that's been cover-sprayed with 2, 4-d until your area's had 1/3" of natural rainfall or more.

ussoldierforhire
03-30-2009, 11:02 AM
thanks for the info!

betmr
03-30-2009, 02:01 PM
betmr, you especially will be interested in reading through this 15-month-old thread....

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=210049&highlight=weed+recipes

The kids & I have been picking dandelion greens like crazy the last couple of weeks. :dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:
They're at their peak right now. Get 'em while their still young & sweet!:clapping: Two, three weeks from now, they'll start to become bitter, as they harden off in the warmer weather.

So, should we tell our turf customers to forget about the weeds, in fact, Cultivate them and go to lawnsite and get some recipes. Save money on lawn care, & the grocery store too. What about all the seeds blowing onto the neighbor's yard, who doesn't like Dandelion salad? what about the WHOLE neighborhood, we'll end up spraying weeds all over the place, because one guy likes dandelion wine?

Marcos
03-31-2009, 08:44 AM
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.p...t=weed+recipes

The kids & I have been picking dandelion greens like crazy the last couple of weeks.
They're at their peak right now. Get 'em while their still young & sweet! Two, three weeks from now, they'll start to become bitter, as they harden off in the warmer weather.

So, should we tell our turf customers to forget about the weeds, in fact, Cultivate them and go to lawnsite and get some recipes. Save money on lawn care, & the grocery store too. What about all the seeds blowing onto the neighbor's yard, who doesn't like Dandelion salad? what about the WHOLE neighborhood, we'll end up spraying weeds all over the place, because one guy likes dandelion wine?


I simply can't over-emphasize this point:

Don't pick dandelion greens (or any other type of greens) for human consumption from any piece of ground that has ever had a remote chance of being treated with a systemic herbicide such as 2, 4-d, MCPP, dicamba, etc...

If you can't find a hayfield or meadow that's never been sprayed, then don't pick!! These chemicals can sometimes linger within the vascular systems of rhizomous perennials for many years, especially if they were initially over-applied!! :cry:

ussoldierforhire
03-31-2009, 09:17 AM
yep, that wouldnt be too bright