Catagorize yourself

[BRIAN GALLO]

Lately there have been a lot of posts talking about bids, prices, part timers, overhead, etc. I was just wondering which catagory above you would put yourself in. I'm not trying to pry or be critical of anyone's business practices, so please don't post any dollar ammounts. I was just curious because I feel people react differently to business decisions depending on what catagory you are in. :blob4:

[AK Lawn]

I am a young person still living at home(dorm room college) but 100% of my income come from my business, i have paid for all of my equipment, trucks, and everything else that comes along with it, and am in the process of finding my own place to live and run my business, i run two full crews with 100+ plus clients, but yes i am still young, 19
AK Lawn

[BRIAN GALLO]

As I said, I didn't post this to be critical. Good for you AK Lawn, you are a young gogetter - keep up the good work. The way I see it you would be in catagory #1. No offense meant to any young people out there, just merely asking the question.

[AndyL]

I fit none of the above categories...

I am young, don't live at home, I am married, do have a kid, not in a post secondary institution. Currently, my wife works a fulltime job, I work a full time job outside of landscaping.

Landscaping to me is a passion, I love to see what I can do with a lawn. So it'll be a somewhat more than part-time job. (I'll probably have one crew working full time, and I'll just go play after work, I work a 4-10's shift, so it leaves me lots of time to play)

Maybe later in the season, depending on how things go, I'll go to fulltime myself, show these young'uns how things are done :D

Andy

[stslawncare]

im 16 ive been doing yardwork for about 4 years, in 2000 i mowed 3 lawns a week, quite a few misc jobs, and made good money that winter, last year do to parents separating and moving i only did a few misc jobs so i concentrated on learning abuot the business. this year im diving in, right now i know for sure i have two full time landscape customers (work weekly doing various projects through out the year), i have one full lawn and landscape customer (doing just about everything from mowing to mulching), and another pending 5 customers, all of these are from word of mouth, reccamendations, or from last year, so far i have handed out about 40 flyers with another 100 to go. so right now i for sure have 3 well paying customers, and if i get the 5 pending i will be very satisified and wont do any advertising. as far as money goes, i have a few expenses (webpage, internet, cell) plus gas etc, all my equip is paid for. so i do consider this much much more then a hobby, as it is paying bills, plus its my only income for spending money. i do plan to make this my career.

[mike payne]

I am a retired teamster and receive a very good retirement plan. My wife is a cardiac specialist earns a very good salary. I have two painting crews and a digital photogharphy business.

[Southern Lawns]

Hmmm! I don't fit in there either. Wife makes good money but my income is hardly extra cash. We like the finer things in life and tend to buy the better than average "things", we feel it pays in the long run. we have all the overhead of a legit business and then some. Our goal is to create Southern Lawns into a large enough income producer to allow her to retire early and relax, this is my passion, I love my work. She does not love her work. Don't know how I got off on that subject but you get the point.
To all a great year!
Raymond

[MOW ED]

I don't fit either. I have another job as a Firefighter/Paramedic but I run my business as a business and not a hobby. I have over 40 grand in vehicles and equipment and I make a profit at the business. I count on the money from lawn care equally as the benefits from my other job. My wife does not have a formal job but she helps me in the lawn business both in the field and in the office.
So mayby the last category should have been OTHER, explain below.

[mike payne]

Southern Lawns, I love your verse: "Yes, I'm sure you could find someone to do it cheaper but will you be happy after you do?" I will use this on the prospective customers than want to hire someone that does not have insurance, pay taxes or is licended.

[wattsup]

I am with AndyL. I have a "full time job" as a bail bondsman, kids, etc... I am only doing this because I love it. I will probably never do this fulltime though. I only work four days so I have Friday and Saturday to pursue my passion.

[1stclasslawns]

I'm in there with MOWED, I'm a Firefighter for a small city in Arkansas where they don't pay enough, 30% under state average. So to make ends meet I started mowing again (I did so in my teens)and it has developed into an exceptional bussiness.

Jim

[J&JPROPERTY]

I too am with Mow Ed, I work as a fulltime firefighter/paramedic, but I also run a fulltime business which thanks to this winter ....will definately effect the bottom line, 3 trucks, 2 crews , still looking for more work

[KirbysLawn]

I also am like Ed and don't fit into any of those. I am a Paramedic in Charlotte, Nc with 15.5 years so far. Started the lawn care service to have a profession set up for when I retire in a few years. The full time job (I work nights) has excellent pay and outstanding benifits and a 50% matching 401k, I'd be stupid to quit.

[Dennis Watson]

I don't really fit the profile questions either. My wife makes good money but I work this business full time. 1. I love it. 2. I strive to be the best lawn maintenance company in the area building each year with the goal of being able to sell out in 5-6 years. Am 51 years old and hope to retire early , along with wife , and be able to enjoy life before I die.

[Southern Lawns]

Thanks Mike. Sooo many customers just don't seem to catch on!
I have found that in life "you""we""us""everyone" is going to pay!Either it be in the front end or the back end but we all pay either way. Why not pay on the front end and be done with it....instead of a little in the front some in the middle and more in the back end to get it right.
Just my .02

Raymond

[mklawnman]

I am currently 18 living at home going to school for landscape horticulture. I also run my lawn and landscape maintenance service too. So far have 7 residential accounts, 2 big appartment complexs that i do all the landscape maintenance at, 2 commercial accounts. Dont plan on getting much bigger than that until school is done but my brother(16) has helped me alot by working with me. Also my dad has helped me buy some of the equipment and help get me more customers. Best way of advertising for me has been WORD OF MOUTH, havent had to put out fliers yet. When you do quality of work for the customers, the customers end up bragging to other people and then you end up doing that persons lawn.
So i say to all those young teenagers out there in this business is to do quality of work(licensed/insured of course) and you can find yourself getting more customers, loving the job and making great money :cool:
Matt (lawnman)

[odin]

The business is me and my three brothers we all are drawing pensions and about as good medical benefits as you can get from general motors
The business is full time and no hobby we make good money in the business and from our pensions.
My wife dont work never has but one of my brothers wives is a cpa and makes big time money.
Other brothers wives work some part time on and off now that their kids are pretty much grow.

[1MajorTom]

Our full income comes from our business. No other side jobs. We support ourselves and two kids doing this. Although I do look to maybe work one more season, two at the most, if our business continues to grow as planned. I enjoy working outside, but it is extremely hard having to come home and run a house too. I am an extreme neat freak, and it takes a lot out of me doing all the household chores after working outside all day. Matt yells at me and tells me that I have to quit trying to act like "June Cleaver" during grass cutting season and just let things in the house go for a few days. I drive him nuts cause I just can't stand untidyness!

So hopefully in the future, Matt will run the whole show, and I will only take care of the office work. We'll see how it goes.

And back to the original thought on this thread.
Quote: I was just curious because I feel people react differently to business decisions depending on what catagory you are in.
Yes, I do believe it makes a difference if you have another job and use lawn maintenance as a side income. It changes the whole playing field. Or maybe the wife works carrying all the families benies, 401K, etc..

A strictly full timer might just not have luxury of turning away a lawn just because it is not irrigated, or because the lawn is little bumpy. I believe a fulltimers position is going to differ from a person that does this parttime with a wife that's working also.

This field is infiltrated by droves of parttimers.
So what positive or negative effect do parttimers have on a fulltimers business?
Do part-timers help the industry or hurt it? Thoughts?

[LAWnENFORCER]

I also don't fall into the catagory. I work fulltime as a police officer and my wife also works full time. I am 25 yoa and have two kids. I have a legitimate part time lawn co. that is mostly residential(about 20 accounts). I do this work for several reasons. First, for the challange of running a sucessful and profitable buisness. Second, it pays a lot better than any other part time job w/ my qualifications. And at last it gives me the opportunity to get off my a$$(riding in a patrol car) and get some exercise and sunshine(I work the midnight shift).

1MajorTom- I think that a legit part timer has the same effect on a full timer as another full time buisness. Let me explain, I feel that most or all part timers are mainly in lawn care for the money. If our full time jobs paid good enough to let us be totally picky about what jobs we take then why would "we" have a part time job. Also, part time work is also part time hours, so sometimes it is more profitable to take two maintained, irrigated lawns compared to a hilly, dusty, bumpy, rocky lawn etc... I know that I can't speak for all part timers, but I take a job if I see a profit. If I do not see a profit then I move on, and let some one else, who sees a profit ( a full timer or a part timer) take it.

I am not trying step on any toes or to be a smart a$$. I just want to say that legit competition is part of the buisness.

Just my opinion

Kevin
KB LAWN SERVICE

[ceaman]

My wife makes good money (Thank God or we would have starved this winter!)But the bills wont all get paid if I don't bring in some good cash this year. Im praying for a great summer. I allready have more contracts than last year, so I guess I am on a roll.

[awm]

wife and i pull the load togather.

[bruces]

I don't fit anywhere either. My wife has a full time, very good job with great benefits.

I am a CPA, working full time (60hrs / wk) thruough April 15.

Starting April 16, I will be working at the accounting office every morning and running the lawn care business from noon until I quit or get done every day. The lawn care business is part time currently, but the income is very important, it is a business, not a hobby. If I don't think I can make 50 to 60 per hour on a job, I don't want it.

I'm running top quality equipment and doing a top quality job and intend to be compensated for it.

Hopefully, after this year, I will be doing accounting during tax season only and lawn care full time the rest of the year.

[jbt]

I am an EMT that works 24hrs on and 48hrs off. Great schedule for mowing. I have 20-25 customers that I take care of. Mostly mowing for homeowners, but a few commerical accounts. I am insured, licenced and have good equipment. My wife works full time as a teacher. We also have 2 kids with 1 on the way.

[walker-talker]

Well I don't fit in there either, so I can't vote. I am single and work full-time and mow about 20 hours a week. I am making plans to quit my full-time job and mow full-time next season. I still have a lot of number crunchin' to do.

MATT

[Loosestrife]

I found this to be one of the most interesting threads ever on this discussion forum. I know that we have a wide representation of different types of operators, from a kid cutting a couple of neighbors lawns, to large scale operations with sales in the millions.

It seems, at least from the responses so far that there are many that only are operating their bueiness as a sideline to another job. This "safety net" can have a great inpact on the way the bueiness is run.

I am in the bueiness full time, married with no children. My wife works a good job, not a great job. I guess that some could say that we have a bit of a "safety net".

As others have said, when operating on a full time basis, and depending on that income to meet payroll, overhead, owners salary, and profit, often the luxuries of dropping a customer, or only taking on "premium" accounts are not there.

As full timers, our equipment purchase decisions can be different than a part timer. In some cases, a part timer can operate without profit, spending much of his income on equipment.

Each type of operation is different, and faces a different set of obstacles. A kid living and operating at home has a much different set of responsibilities and expenses when compared to a full time operation that operates out of a commercial warehouse, owns a home, and supports a family.

[LAWNS AND MOWER]

I definitly fit in the first catergory. Full-time lco. My goal is to get the cashcow (wife) back to work so I can move down to the " spouse makes good $$$$" catergory. Don't get me wrong. I love what I do. I told my wife that should we win the Powerball lottery, I would still continue to work, but scale down a bit.

LAWNS AND MOWER

[GarPA]

wife has decent job...ok benefits. I'm full time in this biz.

love the work...not a young guy anymore...goal is to get off the equipment in 2 to 3 years and 'manage' the business...Want to do what some of you do...put the young guys on the equipment and play on Lawnsite most of the day!!!!!

now come on be honest......

[TLS]

I am a full time Lawn Maintenance Contractor, and in the winter I work Full time at my local Supermarket (full benefits !) Come about now, I go to Part time, just Sarurday mornings 5AM-1PM and Sundays 11AM-7PM at the Supermarket (16 hrs/week). This doesn't impede on my lawn work, and it pays the bills during winters like this past one (not much white stuff).
It really is the best of both worlds. I couldn't imagine paying for the good benefits that I get for free! Plus the pay isn't all that bad, and its air conditioned in the Summer! Saturdays are my catch-up day after 1. I dont cut on Sundays anyway, so I mind as well be making real good money (time and a half) in the airconditioning!!!

[lawnkid]

I only apply to the young and live at home one. I'm 14, live in my parents house where they pay the bills but I mostly cut grass because it's an awesome job and I have been inspired since I was like 5. I have 16 current customers most of whom I do weekly services only cause I can't drive but I'll make it work out somehow in the longrun because now I'm just learning how it really fells like to be proud of what I've done so far.

[KirbysLawn]

Originally posted by 1MajorTom
Yes, I do believe it makes a difference if you have another job and use lawn maintenance as a side income. It changes the whole playing field. Or maybe the wife works carrying all the families benies, 401K, etc..


How does it change? Is there really a difference in full v/s part time? I know several full time LCO's that have been in business for years and can't even apply herbicides or insecticides. There are many other full time LCO's that can't even idenify common weeds and grasses. I'm am part time, but within 6 months of starting my business I was fully licensed.

I don't think it has anything to do with full v/s part time, it has to do with being professional, offering full service, being licensed, carring insurance, and so on.

It has everything to do the individual(s) in the company, that's it. If full time LCO's have a concern with the industry and part timers then they need to start doing something about it. How many full time LCO's here, on this board are actively involved in a local, state, or national organization? This part timer has served on our local association board for 3 years and have been involved in state and national associations.

That's my thoughts.

[anythinglawns]

My wife has a full time job. Ok pay good benifits.
Lawn care is my full time job. In the winter I volunteer for extra duty in the reserves.

[1MajorTom]

Quote: How does it change? Is there really a difference in full v/s part time

Yes.
The original question was: Are business decisions affected by the category that you are in. YES!

You turned the question into a matter of quality and service, and hob knobbing with the association heads.

When questions are asked here concerning bidding, pricing, and equipment etc, the answers come from a diverse bunch of people ranging from teenagers to over 50plus, to part timers to full timers. The answer all depends upon the category you are in.

Comparing a full time LCO to a part time LCO that has a FULL TIME job, is like comparing an apple to an orange.

We aren't trying to say that part time LCO's can't be legitimate competiton. But they have the luxury of a full time paycheck to help base their business decisions on. Whereas a fulltimer has to look at his bottom line and make smart decisions that work for his business and his family.


This is Matt's editorial for the evening.

[KirbysLawn]

Well, I guess we will just disagree on this one. I do not make decisions based what my full time income is and I hope I make "smart" business decisions just as a full time business does. I agree that part times businesses make poor decisions, so do full time businesses. Again, it all falls back to the person and how they choose to run the business.

As for quality and service, I thought that was what this was all about. As for "hob knobbing with the association heads", if some people would get off their butts and get involved with fellow LCO's instead of complaining about competition maybe they could make a difference in what their state's requirments are for LCO's. If a contractors license was required for LCO's that would filter out many, including "full time" LCO's.

[1MajorTom]

Somehow, we inadvertently missed Loosestrife's post.
His post says it all.

Quote: It seems, at least from the responses so far that there are many that only are operating their bueiness as a sideline to another job. This "safety net" can have a great inpact on the way the bueiness is run.

Quote: As others have said, when operating on a full time basis, and depending on that income to meet payroll, overhead, owners salary, and profit, often the luxuries of dropping a customer, or only taking on "premium" accounts are not there.

Quote: As full timers, our equipment purchase decisions can be different than a part timer. In some cases, a part timer can operate without profit, spending much of his income on equipment.

As for quality and service, that's a whole different thread. This is about basing business decisions on what category you are in.
So yes, I do agree with you about disagreeing on this issue. You don't see how having a safety net affects your buying, bidding, etc...

[KirbysLawn]

My first post did address the topic of this thread.

You brought up a different topic and asked for "thoughts", I shared. I not going to argue about it. If you want opinions fine, accept them, otherwise don't ask for them.

[Commander]

My attitude towards part timers is that ultimatley they will help full timers. A part timer will be able to do lawns and what not, provided that they are not massive places. A part timer may be able to do apps, and maybe some mulch and what not. A part timer is not however going to be able to take on jobs where a crew of 4 or 5, or even more including the company owner sits for a month or two improving a property from a wood lot to a beautifully landscaped property, or from a poorly maintained property to an award winning property. They just don't have the time to commit to a job like that. They also don't have the resources to do a job like that. A part timer also a good amount of the time is not coming from a background of horticulture, a part timer is coming from a background of computers, or banking, or what have you. So therefore what they will know about horticulture will be a lot less than what somebody who has had proper training will know. Now when a part timer comes into the business they really won't have the time to take courses in order to get the degrees and what not. So that is how I think part timers affect full timers.

[Lawn-Scapes]

Off topic mode:

Ray.. I didn't know you were part time...

What kind of part time hours do you put in? Does anyone work with you.. part time too?
----------------------------------------------------------

On topic..

The business has been the primary income.. my wife just graduated (BA English/certified secondary ed).

[KirbysLawn]

While I agree with most of the above, I will add this. I know several "part-timers" who have several crews working for them. One of the biggest LCO's in the Charlotte area is owned by a firefighter that started part time and finally retired and has a huge operation.

Again, it all has to do with the person. How many fulltime people do you know who do not even have an applicators license? I know several that don't or have just obtained them after years of operation.

TSG, I work night shifts as a Paramedic. I have 2 people that work with me and are doing most of the work right now. I also have several people that i contract out for dirt, grading, pineneedles, larger mulch jobs, etc. I have cut back my customer base back about half of what it was a year ago due to health problems and having my equipment paid off.

[Bill Davis]

natualawn, what town in arkansas do you live. I live in Little Rock and am a full time student at ualr and work full time for my own little company. I just was surprised to see someone on here that lived in Arkansas. have a good one, Bill.

[trophytkr]

:blob1: I don't fit in any of your 5 choices! I work full time as does my wife. After 25 years of 3rd shift I want to see the sun light! Just starting out goal is to quit my maintenance mechanic job in foundry after 25 years and have a real job. One that keeps me home at night. Sure will be different being able to sleep with my wife like I'm supposed to be doing! Hopefully next spring I can make the big change. This year I will have to burn the candle at both ends to build up business so I can..:D Wish me luck!

[1MajorTom]

Quote: Again, it all has to do with the person. How many fulltime people do you know who do not even have an applicators license? I know several that don't or have just obtained them after years of operation.

I take this as a subtle dig against us, but it is only re-inforcing our stance. As fulltimers, we are growing our business slowly, and adding more services as our customer base grows. We have to build wisely since we don't have a safety net.
We would rather do this than buy too much equipment, then have to liquidate after realizing that we just don't have the customer base and are making no profit.

When Sam Walton started Walmart, did he put one store up in every town in America right from the start? Or did he gradually expand his business all over the U.S? Today Walmart stores are still being built. So as full timers, we should have offered every service there is right from the get go, and just took the plunge and became heavily in debt right from the start? This would have made us more professional?

[TLS]

Originally posted by KirbysLawn


I know several full time LCO's that have been in business for years and can't even apply herbicides or insecticides. There are many other full time LCO's that can't even idenify common weeds and grasses. I'm am part time, but within 6 months of starting my business I was fully licensed.
.

Ray,

I've been a legitimate registered Lawn Maintenance Contractor for 14 years, and have been mowing grass as Tommy's Lawn Service for 22 years. I cant "even" apply herbicides or insecticides either! Why? Well I dont want to spend the money on spray tanks, liquid storage tanks, equipment to remove truck mounted tanks, and the daily breathing of "who knows how dangerous" chemicals. Sure it would be nice to be able to do it myself, but I choose not to right now. I have a friend that I sub that out to, and he does a real good reasonable job for me.

I know more than most, but not as much as others on herbicide/fertilizer applications, but have no present desire to dive into all the associated headaches I listed above. I could go out and take my core test tomorrow and probably pass with flying colors. I may just jump in and do that just so I can spray roundup, etc.

But to look down on others that aren't able to, or dont want to become licensed for this is a little...small of you , dont you think? :(

[Loosestrife]

Well, it looks like I stirred the pot a little bit...

Mr. Kirby:

What bearing does having an applicators license have on this topic? Do you have a license to provide ANY POSSIBLE service that your customers want for their lawn and landscape? Arborist, excivating, gereral contractor? You may need these to biuld walks, steps, patios, change grade, prune trees... Others may choose to offer these services, but not pesticide application.

That being said, I feel that as I said before, each person/business has its own unique set of circumstances. A person with a full time job, working his business on the side MAY have an advantage over someone working his buisness as his sole income.

Let me explain...

Person A works a full time job with medical and retirement benefits. He operates his lawn care bueiness on his off duty hours.

Person B operates his lawn care business on a full time basis, as his sole source of income.

The total take home pay of person A and B are equal.

Person A has a fixed, steady income from his full time job. Person B has a varible income, dependent on many facotrs.

Person A and Person B are each looking to purchase a large piece of equipment for this season. This is a large capital expense that will either be financed, or take a large chunk of reserve cash.

Person A decided that he will have the means to pay for the machine, even if his business slows this season. He feels that he can support his family with the funds from his full time job, and that if the business slows, he will be able to survive.

Person B decided that he will have the means to pay for the machine, IF business goes as planned this season. Person B does some additional considering, and decides not to purchase. Person B is concerned that if the business slows, or is not there, that he will not have the means to provide support for his family.

The business could slow or not exist for a number of reasons, weather conditions, economic conditions, OR, there could be some additional expected business expenses. Person A will still have a source of income, while Person B may have a reduced income, or no income.

There may be some business owners out there, be it full time, or part time, that are in such a finincial position that these issues don't really matter to them. I feel, that for the majority of contractors, these are real issues.

Full or part time status should have no bearing on whether or not a contractor is professional or not. The quality of the work, competitive pricing, licensing and insurance requirements, and behavior of the contractor will determine whether or not he is professional.

Many full timers are not professional, as well as part timers.

I hope this helps you to see how a full timer person makes desisions. I also hope that you see how a part time operator that has a steady, fixed income may have an advantage when it comes to making some business decisions.

[UGA]

I originally bought a commercial mower because for 3 acres there were no homeowner mowers fast enough or sturdy enough. As well, I had 3 different crews either say they would do my yard but never show or start and get stalled due to high grass and never return or do it once and never return.
I was out of options so seeing as I have loved mowing the lawn since I was 8 I decided to get a commercial unit. After getting the mower, trailer, and trimmer other jobs began popping up from work and relatives although some were for free (mother-in-law).
It gives me some extra spending money or if nothing else gives me enough money to slowly buy more equipment as I see fit or maintain what I have.
I guess I am a 5 on that list but I never considered it a hobbie like golf or bass fishing. I guess it is although I plan on increasing my business only where it works for me in terms of location(proximity to other jobs) and the right price. It is important to me to be home by 6ish most days si I will only take on more jobs where it is convenient. This is obviously not a good way to generate quick income but that is not what I'm looking for.

[KirbysLawn]

Jodi, no I was not taking a "dig", I don't have any idea what your status is. Sorry if I offended anyone, I figured it might, including some I know fairly well here, sorry. That was my thoughts, as wrong as they may be.

[leeslawncare]

I'am i part time L.C.O. been in biz for 9 yrs now liget an all that good stuff.......why i do it??good $$ i make better money at this than my regular job but,it has better benifets ..for now my wife /( book keeper here ) is finisheing up her masters degree .when is all said an done .ii hope to be leaveing the current job an doing this full time The last few years i've made as much $ at this as i have at my full time job an only done it 3days a week 4 hrs a day ..i know i can do better ,,but the benifits there weigh out to be moe ! Lee..

[Grass_Slayer]

i too am young, 18, i have 2 fairly well paying commercial accounts, close to ten other accounts, and hoping to have several more to keep busy. i'm going to talk to the insurance agent tomorrow bout some insurance and im always lookin for more work!!