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GreenerGrass9
04-01-2009, 08:24 AM
This is what a inexsperianced lighting installes does.

irrig8r
04-01-2009, 11:12 AM
This is what a inexsperianced lighting installes does.

And the above is an example of what an inexperienced speller types. :)

EOL
04-01-2009, 11:49 AM
That is funny.:laugh:

klkanders
04-01-2009, 12:11 PM
Harsh Gregg!


.......but dang funny!

Keith

irrig8r
04-01-2009, 12:19 PM
Harsh Gregg!


.......but dang funny!

Keith

Sarry, ah jest couldn't halp muhself.

I have seen duct tape or duck tape (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape) used in bad lighting installs too.

JoeyD
04-01-2009, 12:46 PM
Duct Tape and Pierce Points nonetheless!! Thats Home Depots finest right there!!

David Gretzmier
04-01-2009, 04:18 PM
we need a thread on what we have seen at connections- duct tape, electrical tape, scotch and masking tape I have seen, along with pierce points and wire nuts with no silicone, and of course, just twisted together with nothing.

Pro-Scapes
04-02-2009, 12:10 AM
How about hot glue filled wire nuts. At least thats what I assume it was. Connections were actually quite clean. It was the 300w daisy chain that killed the system. Who knew you could put 50a fustats in a certain transformer

klkanders
04-02-2009, 01:42 AM
Check this out: :hammerhead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3MtKjfvng0

And to think I have been seeking advice from all of you for 3 yrs.
This guy is my new hero........love the shades!

Keith

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
04-02-2009, 02:04 AM
Billy, I am quite sure you cannot put a Bussman Fustat of a 50A rating into a Nightscaping Powercenter. Just as the S-15 fustat uses a different shape base than the S-25 fustat, I would suspect that any S-50 (which are 240V by the way) would not fit into either the S-15 or S-25 Socket.

Perhaps you were mistaken? Or, perhaps the reported S-50, 240V "fustat" you saw had been forced or jury rigged into the socket? In any case, installer/maintainer stupidity cannot be entirely stopped, but don't blame the product. "It" did nothing wrong.

Personally, I prefer the instantaneous response that a fustat will provide to an overload situation. I have seen too many magnetic breakers that either do not trip, or take much too long to trip when overloads occur. Both technologies are fine for shorts, but I don't really want to have the potential for a slow meltdown under some mulch when a magnetic breaker does not respond to an overload situation. Don't believe me, try it for yourself. Load up a transformer to near is maximum capacity through the secondary circuit's magnetic breaker, then slowly start adding more load to that cable, see what happens when you gradually increase the load on the magnetic breaker.

Pro-Scapes
04-02-2009, 10:02 AM
I didnt say nightscaping did I. I am not sure how they screwed a 50a fuse in. If I am mistaken as you say then the 50A on the fustat must have have been a typographical error.

I never said it wasnt installer error we are talking about lighting NO NO's not product prefferences or secondary protection.

I agree fuses do provide a good protection, This is why I use an inline fuse for any structurally mounted fixtures with the lowest possible rating.. However in our climate I find more fuse sockets rusted or rotted out than I do working ones. I am quite sure there are at least 1000 perfectly good working power centers in my area.

On the magnetic breakers. If you overload it once again it is installer error just like installing a fuse that is too large.

irrig8r
04-02-2009, 10:57 AM
Billy, I am quite sure you cannot put a Bussman Fustat of a 50A rating into a Nightscaping Powercenter. Just as the S-15 fustat uses a different shape base than the S-25 fustat, I would suspect that any S-50 (which are 240V by the way) would not fit into either the S-15 or S-25 Socket.

Perhaps you were mistaken? Or, perhaps the reported S-50, 240V "fustat" you saw had been forced or jury rigged into the socket? In any case, installer/maintainer stupidity cannot be entirely stopped, but don't blame the product. "It" did nothing wrong.

Personally, I prefer the instantaneous response that a fustat will provide to an overload situation. I have seen too many magnetic breakers that either do not trip, or take much too long to trip when overloads occur. Both technologies are fine for shorts, but I don't really want to have the potential for a slow meltdown under some mulch when a magnetic breaker does not respond to an overload situation. Don't believe me, try it for yourself. Load up a transformer to near is maximum capacity through the secondary circuit's magnetic breaker, then slowly start adding more load to that cable, see what happens when you gradually increase the load on the magnetic breaker.

Believe it or not there are other brands of "Fustat" out there besides Buss. I have run across a 20A and a 30A that homeowners have used in place of 25A (never a 50).

The 30A was either yellow or orange... I asked Bill about it and he said no problem. He said the Powercenters were overbuilt and purposely underrated to 25A. Obviously the 20A would limit the use oof the circuit.

JoeyD
04-02-2009, 01:08 PM
Spade Fuses are the best for secondary protection!!!

David Gretzmier
04-04-2009, 02:10 AM
ah, yes, fustats. who doesn't have at least a few in the tool box or bag? why is it I have replaced hundreds of fustats but i rarely ( once yearly? once every 2 years? ) reset a built in breaker on a trans?

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
04-04-2009, 09:35 AM
None the less David. In many overload situations, the fuse is going to protect your system whereas the magnetic breaker will not even notice the situation.

Not a lot of people understand that the S series Fustat is actually a diagonstic tool. Depending on how it 'blows' it will tell you if you have a short or an overload on the circuit. A breaker does not do that for you.

MAGLIGHTING
04-04-2009, 10:05 AM
None the less David. In many overload situations, the fuse is going to protect your system whereas the magnetic breaker will not even notice the situation.

Not a lot of people understand that the S series Fustat is actually a diagonstic tool. Depending on how it 'blows' it will tell you if you have a short or an overload on the circuit. A breaker does not do that for you.

This is not always true. 90% of the time the spring will collapse and result in shutting down the circuit even with shorts. Shorts are supposed to burn the link and that rarely happens only on severe dead shorting will this occur.

An amp probe will give you the same diagnostic capability. The magnetic breaker will give you just enough time before tripping and resetting to find the cable that has the high amperage.

Fuses are no longer used in home breaker panels, magnetic breakers are. UL, ETL, ARL doesn't have a problem with magnetic breakers.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
04-04-2009, 10:37 AM
Mike, I am not suggesting that the magnetic breaker is inferior or unsafe or unapproved etc etc. My point on the fustats is that they do still offer some functionality that can be beneficial. (The magnetic breaker still requires more time to sense and trip in situations of circuit overload than a fuse does... this is one reason that in-line fusing is recommended by many for all building and structure mounted circuits.)

It might be a bit of a dinosaur, but it is not completely obsolete either.

Regards.

MAGLIGHTING
04-05-2009, 04:20 PM
Mike, I am not suggesting that the magnetic breaker is inferior or unsafe or unapproved etc etc. My point on the fustats is that they do still offer some functionality that can be beneficial. (The magnetic breaker still requires more time to sense and trip in situations of circuit overload than a fuse does... this is one reason that in-line fusing is recommended by many for all building and structure mounted circuits.)

It might be a bit of a dinosaur, but it is not completely obsolete either.

Regards.

The magnetic breaker still requires more time to sense and trip in situations of circuit overload than a fuse does...

This may be true in certain situations depending upon cable gauge size and distance the short occurs from the transformer. Most 25 amp magnetic breakers are rated to 32 amps. Even at 32 amps the cable will not get hot enough to melt or cause a fire.

For me However the fustat has proven to be too unreliable and too much of a problem over the years . I just can't justify charging a client $90 to come out to unscrew and replace a fustat that blew for no apparent reason (old age, voltage spike etc.) and it ends up costing me time and money as I must eat it. With the volume of work I do there is no way I could continue to use this relic in my business. Otherwise I'd be buried in call backs for no good reason. It's just a smart business decision I made plain and simple. Since getting that object out of my life my call backs for circuit shutdowns for no reason have been reduced to zero.:dancing:

Pro-Scapes
04-05-2009, 06:49 PM
The fuse does have its time and place. ANYTIME I run cable in/on or into a dwelling it gets an inline blade type fuse with the fuse set to the next highest level. On this last job I had a 12ga wire drawing 7a. I installed a 10a blade type fuse knowing that the slightest problem with the wiring will blow it and cause for a service call in which I can make sure all is well and make any needed repairs. This is needed because I am not able to be on every project weekly to make sure someone else doesnt mess up things.

It gives me some peace of mind knowing I protected my clients. Ground mounted circuits are left to be protected by the Magnetics.

MAGLIGHTING
04-05-2009, 10:24 PM
The fuse does have its time and place. ANYTIME I run cable in/on or into a dwelling it gets an inline blade type fuse with the fuse set to the next highest level. On this last job I had a 12ga wire drawing 7a. I installed a 10a blade type fuse knowing that the slightest problem with the wiring will blow it and cause for a service call in which I can make sure all is well and make any needed repairs. This is needed because I am not able to be on every project weekly to make sure someone else doesnt mess up things.

It gives me some peace of mind knowing I protected my clients. Ground mounted circuits are left to be protected by the Magnetics.


Why no Fustat? :cry:

Pro-Scapes
04-05-2009, 10:47 PM
Why no Fustat? :cry:

They still make thoes things ??? :laugh:

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
04-06-2009, 02:55 AM
Yes, just as they still make incandescent lamps.

touche'

cgaengineer
04-06-2009, 04:32 PM
Check this out: :hammerhead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3MtKjfvng0

And to think I have been seeking advice from all of you for 3 yrs.
This guy is my new hero........love the shades!

Keith

This guy has got my business! I will hire him when I need to get out from under my mortgage in a hurry!

GreenerGrass9
04-06-2009, 05:55 PM
I think his sunglasses needs a transformer, or atleast a photocell

NightLightingFX
04-06-2009, 06:17 PM
Check this out: :hammerhead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3MtKjfvng0

And to think I have been seeking advice from all of you for 3 yrs.
This guy is my new hero........love the shades!

Keith

I checked out the guy's website FYI here is his outdoor lighting section www.sadreedesign.com/lighting_page.htm I think the guy's intentions are good but he is obviously ignorant on what makes a quality outdoor lighting system. I LOVE the "Water Proof Tape" I wonder if FOLD or Terradek carries it? As far as using "Malibu" equipment and "hack" techniques his job didn't look tooooo? bad? (I ve seen worse) If the guy got educated, he could be a pretty good outdoor lighting guy. Someone bold should introduce him to this forum.
~Ned

irrig8r
04-06-2009, 09:54 PM
I checked out the guy's website FYI here is his outdoor lighting section www.sadreedesign.com/lighting_page.htm I think the guy's intentions are good but he is obviously ignorant on what makes a quality outdoor lighting system. I LOVE the "Water Proof Tape" I wonder if FOLD or Terradek carries it? As far as using "Malibu" equipment and "hack" techniques his job didn't look tooooo? bad? (I ve seen worse) If the guy got educated, he could be a pretty good outdoor lighting guy. Someone bold should introduce him to this forum.
~Ned


Ned...this one hurts my eyes... and could explain the sunglasses. (Not that it's too bright, just that he wants to remain incognito.)

http://www.sadreedesign.com/Images/Clients/Albritton/a1.JPG

NightLightingFX
04-06-2009, 10:06 PM
Ned...this one hurts my eyes... and could explain the sunglasses. (Not that it's too bright, just that he wants to remain incognito.)

http://www.sadreedesign.com/Images/Clients/Albritton/a1.JPG

Yah, that lighting design is pretty bad. Those rediculous fixture are hideous.

cgaengineer
04-06-2009, 10:10 PM
This is no joke. A neighbor gave me a set of plastic Malibus (set of 10 4w each) along with the wire and the 30 watt transformer. I didn't want them so I gave them to my father to sell on eBay. Well he sold them today for $35 plus $25 shipping. When he told me all I could think is whoever bought them must have been on crack. Three people were actually bidding on them.

I looked them up on the web and they retail for $35 brand new in the box, the ones he sold were used.

So I must ask...which one of you on here bought them?

Pro-Scapes
04-07-2009, 05:04 AM
I LOVE the "Water Proof Tape" I wonder if FOLD or Terradek carries it?
~Ned


:laugh::laugh: I thought you had some. Sorry could not resist that one. You set yourself up.

Mr. Quik electric
04-07-2009, 11:31 PM
This guy has got my business! I will hire him when I need to get out from under my mortgage in a hurry!

Wow, I think I just heard the trunk of a geo slam outside. I better check it out.

Thanks, that was way too funny.