I need help!

[karelle]

We live in southern Oregon (we don't get as much rain here as most of Oregon is known for...our weather tends to be more like northern CA weather). We bought this townhome March 2008 (first owners, new construction, built in 2007). There are automatic sprinklers, but we have no control over them...the homeowners association takes care of the front and they are the ones to set the sprinklers. When we moved in, the grass looked great.

I have two boys (7 and 4) and last summer spent a lot of time outdoors playing in the sprinklers and wading pool. Since we have such a tiny yard, we just have a push mower. We watched, over the year we've been in here, the grass thin out and bare spots emerge. Is that due to kids running, overwatering due to wading pool/sprinker fun? There seems to be dead grass layer over the soil (is that thatch?).

Here are some pictures taken today:

Most of our lawn...L shape around our patio with bark mulch along the house and both sides of the fence; bushes along the back fence.
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/0481.jpg

This shows some of the green grass, the dead grass underneath, and a bare patch.
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/0482.jpg

Here's a close up of a full, healthy spot of grass (you can see it in the first picture on the right side between the corner of the patio and the tree).
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/0485.jpg

Please help! We'd love to have a lush, thick lawn. Any tips? We're just slowly killing it off it seems! My husband and I have no clue how to take care of a lawn (we just thought we had to keep it watered and we'd be fine).

[FYS777]

are you on the west side of cascades or east side? have you fertilized? yes young ones are hard on it and probably is compacted and needs aerating, with the young ones it playing all that much on it it has no time to recuperate in between uses, I figure you must be in the medford area?? try and keep it cut a little bit longer also.

[BostonBull]

I would give it a good raking, over seed with appropriate seed, add 1/4"-1/2" of fresh, good quality Compost, then add a little more seed.......lil more seed wont hurt anything.

In the fall I would aerate the heck out of it, I agree with the compaction from the pictures you showed. anytime you are standing/playing/jumping/etc on wet soil things get compacted real easy real fast.

How often do the sprinklers come on? I have a feeling too often.

Widen the mulch ring around that tree (Dogwood? tough to tell from pic), and put some compost down around it too! Looks like it is either planted too deep, or the mulch is too deep around the trunk......cant see the flare.

Any pics of the rest of that lawn area? or is that the whole backyard?

[FYS777]

maple tree looks like, aerate now and in the fall. go over it a few times with aerator, and rake up plugs so the young ones wont want to eat them , I say that because i know kids that age might do that, the compost and seed thing, you will have to keep kids off of lawn for half the summer till the grass is mature enough to play on:(

[karelle]

are you on the west side of cascades or east side? have you fertilized? yes young ones are hard on it and probably is compacted and needs aerating, with the young ones it playing all that much on it it has no time to recuperate in between uses, I figure you must be in the medford area?? try and keep it cut a little bit longer also.

We're on the west side of the Cascades - you're right, Medford. Last year we used some Scott's Liquid Turf Builder on the lawn, but we've done nothing since fall/winter. Yeah, I need to check to see how to raise the blades on our mower.... Thanks so much for the reply!

[karelle]

I would give it a good raking, over seed with appropriate seed, add 1/4"-1/2" of fresh, good quality Compost, then add a little more seed.......lil more seed wont hurt anything.

In the fall I would aerate the heck out of it, I agree with the compaction from the pictures you showed. anytime you are standing/playing/jumping/etc on wet soil things get compacted real easy real fast.

How often do the sprinklers come on? I have a feeling too often.

Widen the mulch ring around that tree (Dogwood? tough to tell from pic), and put some compost down around it too! Looks like it is either planted too deep, or the mulch is too deep around the trunk......cant see the flare.

Any pics of the rest of that lawn area? or is that the whole backyard?

In the summer, the sprinklers came on every morning before dawn...and there for awhile they also came on in the evening after dark (not sure if that was a mistake, didn't last long). I'm just wondering if I should somehow disable the sprinklers and take care of the watering myself?

I'm pretty sure it's a maple...and at the moment there is no mulch around the base of the tree - that's dirt you're looking it. I'm guessing that's really bad?

That's pretty much the whole lawn. There is a little more to the left, which I'll take a picture of in the morning. Also will take a close up of the base of the tree.

Thanks for your help!

[FYS777]

We're on the west side of the Cascades - you're right, Medford. Last year we used some Scott's Liquid Turf Builder on the lawn, but we've done nothing since fall/winter. Yeah, I need to check to see how to raise the blades on our mower.... Thanks so much for the reply!

A suggestion use scotts any time fert, garnualar , its kid and pet friendly, plus it will last longer for feeding the lawn, slower release, then the spray on, did you fertilize at lest 3 times in the season?

[karelle]

maple tree looks like, aerate now and in the fall. go over it a few times with aerator, and rake up plugs so the young ones wont want to eat them , I say that because i know kids that age might do that, the compost and seed thing, you will have to keep kids off of lawn for half the summer till the grass is mature enough to play on:(

Okay, so I can go ahead and aerate now? Haha, you are right about eating the plugs! My 7 year old is special needs and you never know what will go in his mouth next. My 4 year old hates being dirty, so I'd guess I wouldn't need to worry as much about him. :)

Do you have any ideas where I could get fresh compost? And how do I tell what kind of grass I have? Pick some and take it to someone?

And here I thought all lawns needed were sunlight and water. :dizzy: :laugh:

[karelle]

A suggestion use scotts any time fert, garnualar , its kid and pet friendly, plus it will last longer for feeding the lawn, slower release, then the spray on, did you fertilize at lest 3 times in the season?

Yeah, I believe we did three times...whatever it said on the back of the bottle. I'll check out the any time fertilizer.

[FYS777]

the watering sounds normal for your area, depends on how long, the aerating will help get water and air to the root zone of your grass, when your watering starts I would get a shovel and sink it in the grass about 6 inches and look to see if the soil is wet under the sod, that will show you if its getting enough water to the roots .

[FYS777]

Yeah, I believe we did three times...whatever it said on the back of the bottle. I'll check out the any time fertilizer.

have your sprinklers been turned on yet? about compost, not manure, I don't know what they have there, but here in bend the landfill has bio fine compost for top dressing lawns, it's ground up lawn debris, really good stuff, the local nurseries should have some also, if you wont to go that route, for that size lawn in back probly 3 or 4 bags, of compost, dosen't take much, and the nurseries should know the grass mix for area, I'm guessing KBG mix

[Smallaxe]

What your picture shows has happened to every lawn I've seen that has 'daily' irrigation. You will have more and more airless compacted brown spots as time goes by.

Unfortunately, there is disagreement on sensible irrigation, but allowing the soil to dryout between waterings will make a difference in your grass's ability to grow healthy roots. So if you can disable the sprinklers - go for it. :)

[Smallaxe]

This is an excellent page about losing Nitrogen. I picked out the paragragh about soil without air, losing N. Constant water removes air from a quality loam. Sandy soils can use water everyday, but not a soil with a decent amount of clay and OM.

Every lawncare professional should have this page memorized. :)

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/crops/00550.html
4. Nitrate nitrogen to gaseous nitrogen (denitrification). When soil does not have sufficient air, microorganisms use the oxygen from NO3- in place of that in the air and rapidly convert NO3- to nitrogen oxide and nitrogen gases (N2). These gases escape to the atmosphere and are not available to plants. This transformation can occur within two or three days in poorly aerated soil and can result in large loses of nitrate-type fertilizers.

[FYS777]

What your picture shows has happened to every lawn I've seen that has 'daily' irrigation. You will have more and more airless compacted brown spots as time goes by.

Unfortunately, there is disagreement on sensible irrigation, but allowing the soil to dryout between waterings will make a difference in your grass's ability to grow healthy roots. So if you can disable the sprinklers - go for it. :)

Hi, I've lived there, it gets very hot there and drys out quickly, and by looking at the way the sun is hitting on the lawn in the photo, it will dry out enough, not to be contrary to you smallaxe, you have good points. and good post, thats why i said check with a shovel to see if the soil is staying moist, being compacted the water may be running off instead of socking in the lawn, very dry climate, 100 degree days in summer,

[BostonBull]

If there is a worry about the grass being trampled before it is mature, then dont overseed. For a lawn that size though the small amount of grass, whether it lives or dies, isnt going to break the bank.

Compost is MUCH better for the soil and plant than fert would be. Especially if the soil is compacted.

Get a hold of those sprinklers, and turn them off. Water only when necessary, and water it DEEPLY. Deep and infrequent is better, especially with high traffic compacted areas. It forces the roots further into the soil for nutrients and water, and when drought time comes your lawn will have a higher survival rate than if you elave those sprionklers on all day.

If that is a Maple tree, I would think about 86'ing it. It will quickly outgrow that area, and you will hate it. maybe put a smaller woody type plant in its place. OakLeaf hydrangea, Viburnum, Red Twig dogwood, Apple Tree, etc etc

[karelle]

have your sprinklers been turned on yet? about compost, not manure, I don't know what they have there, but here in bend the landfill has bio fine compost for top dressing lawns, it's ground up lawn debris, really good stuff, the local nurseries should have some also, if you wont to go that route, for that size lawn in back probly 3 or 4 bags, of compost, dosen't take much, and the nurseries should know the grass mix for area, I'm guessing KBG mix

The sprinklers in the front are on (I see the wet pavement when taking my son to catch his bus), but I don't think the ones in the back yard are on yet (which makes me wonder why they told me they were all on the same timer).

There is Biomass One nearby that offers compost....do any of these look good? http://www.biomassone.com/landscaping_materials.php?PHPSESSID=9868765a28cc2a272d1725c209c8a006

Also, we don't have a truck to rent one of those nice big aerators. Since we have such a small backyard, could we get away with something like this? http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=56887-37309-D-6C&detail=&lpage=none Or should we just hire someone to come do it for us?

[BostonBull]

This place looks better, http://www.southernoregoncompost.com/ although its a hike from you. Good compost should be odor free.

Check ourt the local dairy farms too. alot of them have compost they use for their fields. If you ask nicely they may sell you some. Especially since you only need a small amount. 1 yard at the most I would say? Unless that yard is bigger than it looks.....?

As for the aeration......just hire someone. and aerate this fall. I am sure smallaxe and his huge brain will be by to tell you why. In short it promotes weed growth when aerating in spring.

[FYS777]

This place looks better, http://www.southernoregoncompost.com/ although its a hike from you. Good compost should be odor free.

Check ourt the local dairy farms too. alot of them have compost they use for their fields. If you ask nicely they may sell you some. Especially since you only need a small amount. 1 yard at the most I would say? Unless that yard is bigger than it looks.....?

As for the aeration......just hire someone. and aerate this fall. I am sure smallaxe and his huge brain will be by to tell you why. In short it promotes weed growth when aerating in spring.

The SOC compost does look better, if its close by, don't use dairy manure, to many weed seeds!! what it looks like you, considering the house tracts, is you probably have between 600 to 800 sgaure feet of lawn, if you put 1/4 inch of compost on the lawn you would need 1/2 yard of compost, roughly three 30 gallon garbage cans filled. but then you would have messy feet coming in and out of the house, for a while. I do suggest aerating now, the weed problem wont be to bad on small lawn as your, plus if you have it done now you will save water, it will soak in instead of run off. most folks either charge 50 to 75 dollar min, for aerating, if you did get whats at lowes the foot aeraters you could have that done in a couple hours easy and don't have to do it all at once, could actually get one for each foot, and then you'll have them for any time aerating also, just doing whats economical for you, make sure the water is going in back:):):)

[karelle]

Thanks again everyone! You guys are a wealth of knowledge!!

Okay, I can make a run to Grants Pass...so do I want the "manure compost" (is that what you're saying NO to, FYS?) or the "fine compost" that they have listed (or something else completely)? Although, crap...that's a lot of compost. Will I be able to get this all in my minivan? Perhaps I need to find someone with a truck?

Here's the layout/dimensions of the yard (just the grass):
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/lawn.jpg

A shot of the other side of the patio
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/0489.jpg

And the base of the tree (does this need bark mulch or something covering the dirt so it doesn't dry out so fast?)
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/0492.jpg

[FYS777]

Thanks again everyone! You guys are a wealth of knowledge!!

Okay, I can make a run to Grants Pass...so do I want the "manure compost" (is that what you're saying NO to, FYS?) or the "fine compost" that they have listed (or something else completely)? Although, crap...that's a lot of compost. Will I be able to get this all in my minivan? Perhaps I need to find someone with a truck?

Here's the layout/dimensions of the yard (just the grass):
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/lawn.jpg

A shot of the other side of the patio
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/0489.jpg

And the base of the tree (does this need bark mulch or something covering the dirt so it doesn't dry out so fast?)
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/0492.jpg

three of the 30 gallon cans or 6, 2 cubic foot bags with those measuremnet it would take a little over a 1/3 cubic yard hope that helps

[karelle]

three of the 30 gallon cans or 6, 2 cubic foot bags with those measuremnet it would take a little over a 1/3 cubic yard hope that helps

Thanks, it does.

Is the valve in here something I can turn off to stop having the sprinklers come on? White arrow is pointing to the valve cover:
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/0481-.jpg

[BostonBull]

get the fine compost, it will work in the soil easier with less residual materail leftover. On a large lawn this would not be a problem. Get 4 30 gallon barrels worth, easily will fit in your minivan. Spread some on the rear lawn, around that tree, some through the boxwoods near the fence, and put the rest out front on the lawn/landscape.

yes the valve will be in that box. Turn it on and off as you please. maybe every 5th day turn it on and every 2nd -3rd in dry conditions, depending on natural rain and sunlight.

That tree is planted a lil too deep, nothing major. there is a TON of mechanical damage on the trunk from mowers/weedeaters/tractors/etc

Got a better pic of the branches to see what variety it is?

with kids around that yard as much as they are I would shy away from synthetics that will effect them. Lean toward compost, and other natural options.....IMO.

[karelle]

get the fine compost, it will work in the soil easier with less residual materail leftover. On a large lawn this would not be a problem. Get 4 30 gallon barrels worth, easily will fit in your minivan. Spread some on the rear lawn, around that tree, some through the boxwoods near the fence, and put the rest out front on the lawn/landscape.

yes the valve will be in that box. Turn it on and off as you please. maybe every 5th day turn it on and every 2nd -3rd in dry conditions, depending on natural rain and sunlight.

That tree is planted a lil too deep, nothing major. there is a TON of mechanical damage on the trunk from mowers/weedeaters/tractors/etc

Got a better pic of the branches to see what variety it is?

with kids around that yard as much as they are I would shy away from synthetics that will effect them. Lean toward compost, and other natural options.....IMO.

Mechanical damage? Yikes! It goes all the way up the trunk until it reaches the branches, then it smooths out. Here are pictures of the tree...would love to know what it is!

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/0508.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/0509.jpg

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/0514-1.jpg

old leaves from last fall
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/0515.jpg

[karelle]

Hmm, those leaves look more like Oak than Maple, right? Haha, I have no idea what I'm talking about!

[BostonBull]

Some sort of Oak (Quercus). mayeb a red oak?

the base appears like mechanical damage, the other parts up the trunk is probably just natural loose bark some oaks get as they mature.

these are slow growing trees, but it WILL outgrow that area. This is the time to make the decision of if you want a 50-80 foot tree in that spot.

[betmr]

Please help! We'd love to have a lush, thick lawn. Any tips? We're just slowly killing it off it seems! My husband and I have no clue how to take care of a lawn (we just thought we had to keep it watered and we'd be fine).

I'm Going to suggest the next time you go to ANY home center...You buy "SCOTTS LAWNS- Your Guide To A Beautiful Yard. This is your starting point. If not that one, ANY Book on lawn care. You need to gain an understanding of Lawn care and that "I" would say is the best way for you to start to start.

[karelle]

Heh, great advice betmr! I've thumbed through a few and when my eyes glossed over, I put 'em back on the shelf (the ones I saw where mostly about gardens and flowers and such though). But you're right...now that my lawn is looking like crap, it's time for me to do some serious reading. I'm going to see if the library has any to check out.

[betmr]

Heh, great advice betmr! I've thumbed through a few and when my eyes glossed over, I put 'em back on the shelf (the ones I saw where mostly about gardens and flowers and such though). But you're right...now that my lawn is looking like crap, it's time for me to do some serious reading. I'm going to see if the library has any to check out.

No, nowadays they have 'em on lawns, Sprinkler systems, Etc, good place for someone to start, with a book about what you want to know.

[FYS777]

Heh, great advice betmr! I've thumbed through a few and when my eyes glossed over, I put 'em back on the shelf (the ones I saw where mostly about gardens and flowers and such though). But you're right...now that my lawn is looking like crap, it's time for me to do some serious reading. I'm going to see if the library has any to check out.

how is it turning out for you lawn, and what you have been doing to green it up, do you have everything under control?

[karelle]

Wanted to give a big THANK YOU to the folks that helped me out...my lawn is doing very well thanks to you!

First thing I did was go buy a manual aerator and go over the whole lawn with it. It was so compacted, I just couldn't stand to wait until fall....weeds or no weeds!

After that, I got some fine compost (there were an awful lot of large pieces of wood in what was said to be "fine" compost that I was worried a bit about, though turns out to not have been a problem) and raked that all over.

A few days later, I remembered that I'd wanted to give overseeding a try (I know, should be done before the compost layer) so I bought some seed and a hand held spreader and went to town.

A couple weeks later, I bought some of the Scott's Turf Builder Fertilizer granules (http://www.scotts.com/smg/catalog/productTemplate.jsp?tabs=general&proId=prod100036&itemId=cat50034&id=) and spread some of that over the lawn. That's when things really started to get going!

Anyway, it's nice and lush and wonderful to walk on! We've also very much limited the amount of walking/playing on the lawn when it's wet.

(Look, the valve cover is almost hidden!)
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/IMG_1546.jpg

Now.....I've just got to figure out how to make these bushes into hedges. Any ideas on how to prune so the left side grows into the middle part? Here's two pictures spliced together (that's why it looks kinda strange) so you can see the whole back fence.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/Untitled_Panorama1.jpg

[FYS777]

Wanted to give a big THANK YOU to the folks that helped me out...my lawn is doing very well thanks to you!

First thing I did was go buy a manual aerator and go over the whole lawn with it. It was so compacted, I just couldn't stand to wait until fall....weeds or no weeds!

After that, I got some fine compost (there were an awful lot of large pieces of wood in what was said to be "fine" compost that I was worried a bit about, though turns out to not have been a problem) and raked that all over.

A few days later, I remembered that I'd wanted to give overseeding a try (I know, should be done before the compost layer) so I bought some seed and a hand held spreader and went to town.

A couple weeks later, I bought some of the Scott's Turf Builder Fertilizer granules (http://www.scotts.com/smg/catalog/productTemplate.jsp?tabs=general&proId=prod100036&itemId=cat50034&id=) and spread some of that over the lawn. That's when things really started to get going!

Anyway, it's nice and lush and wonderful to walk on! We've also very much limited the amount of walking/playing on the lawn when it's wet.

(Look, the valve cover is almost hidden!)
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/IMG_1546.jpg

Now.....I've just got to figure out how to make these bushes into hedges. Any ideas on how to prune so the left side grows into the middle part? Here's two pictures spliced together (that's why it looks kinda strange) so you can see the whole back fence.

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k294/karelle11/Untitled_Panorama1.jpg

thanks for the pics , looks like its doing well.. dont trim for a while, specially in between plants, and if you do trim in between only clip about half inch that way it will start forking off,, looks good.:clapping::clapping::clapping: