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View Full Version : uplighting within 10' of pool


niteliters
04-10-2009, 10:39 AM
Have some columns within 10' of pool that I want uplit. any manus/fixtures that would fall under code?

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
04-10-2009, 11:30 AM
The code states that you cannot install any LV lighting systems, fixtures, etc within 3 meters / 10 feet of a swimming pool.

If you must you will have to look to fiber optic lighting, locating the illuminator outside of the 10' exclusion zone.

Regards.

irrig8r
04-10-2009, 11:56 AM
How about downlighting them instead?

Check with your local inspector about interpretation of the rules...

I can't remember if it's 10 ft. vertical as well as 10 ft. horizontal, but there was a drawing I saw somewhere that showed it clearly.

I'll bet Billy remembers.

JoeyD
04-10-2009, 12:09 PM
if you install a light from 5-10ft of the pool it has to be grounded and on a GFCI, so essentially it has to be 120v lighting per the code. We do have a fiber optic lighting fixture product line coming out that will blow all your minds!

Now I will say you can speak witht he inspector and explain since there is grey area in the code for lv that if you use a Pool and Spa rated Transformer on a GFCI with Secondary Fuse Protection can you power those lights up?

We are also working ona 12v GFI to help accomodate this code!

rememebr though NO LIGHTS WITHIN 5 FT PERIOD! The code fears sosmeone could use the fixture as a prop to pull themself out of the pool and shock and kill themselves with that mighty 12v shock!! LOL Actually they fear the 120v but to much grey area for LV in article 680 of the NEC.

niteliters
04-10-2009, 12:26 PM
10 foot horizontal, Joey. I'm going to talk to him about the spa rated transformer. thanks for your help. If he says yes on the spa rated I'll be calling you. James, forgot to note that f.o. would be more difficult here, I will look again at the possibilities..
txs

JoeyD
04-10-2009, 12:43 PM
10ft PERIOD, Horizontal or verticle!

Call me or email me for anything you need Chris!!

worx
04-10-2009, 06:21 PM
Joey could you have a combination of 5' horizontal and 5' vertical?

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
04-10-2009, 06:43 PM
Back to grade 10 geometry Steve. You would have to calculate out the X and Y distances to make the diagonal verticy exactly 10' from the water. Use Pythagoras' Theorem: A2 + B2 = C2

So to have a C distance of 10 Feet, you would have to place the fixture at 7.2 feet out and 7.2 feet up! Now try explaining what you have done to an electrical inspector!

:)

Ruben Rocha
04-10-2009, 07:11 PM
The first thing you need to do is find out what code the local jurisdiction is using.
Typically it is nfpa 70 or called the national electric Code(NEC).
The code renews every three years and the current code is 2008 but the local jurisdiction may not have adopted it yet.
Then research article 680 which is the section that covers swimming pools,Spas and fountains etc.

And by the way it is not the voltage that kills but the current.
You could have a shock hazard from just a simple hand rail or ladder in the pool
So you have a equipotential plane to maintain around the pool so there are not voltage gradients. That is why any metallic surface such as posts, windows screen enclosures have to have a electrical bond connection to all of the pool equipment including the rebar in the pool and the wire mesh in the deck.

And by the way the distance is in a chart(diagram) in the NEC handbook. But if you are maintaining the 5' or 10' clearance it is really pretty simple. Take a rope with one end and touch the water in the pool then stretch it out to where you are going to , around obstacles etc. Mark that end then measure the amount of rope and determine if you met the minimum distance for your installation.

niteliters
04-10-2009, 10:43 PM
interesting, I'll the try the rope. what's your thoughts on whether they have adopted 08 or not. I have 08 but not 05. was there a change from 05 to 08 regarding this issue?

Pro-Scapes
04-11-2009, 09:50 AM
indeed I do rememeber. This is originally posted on another forum by a fellow named Gene Raptor

NECHB 680.6

Areas c and D would be our biggest concearn. It states a GFCI must be used but makes no mention of the voltage. 5 ft is the no no zone. anything between 5 and 10 must be on a GFCI. Makes no mention if this GFCI must be on the primary side of a transformer or the luminaire must be a 120 v device.

680.22 states.

Area Lighting, Receptacles, and Equipment.
(C)(4) GFCI Protection in Adjacent Areas. Luminaires, lighting outlets, and ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans installed in the area extending between 1.5 m (5 ft) and 3.0 m (10 ft) horizontally from the inside walls of a pool shall be protected by a ground-fault circuit interrupter unless installed not less than 1.5 m (5 ft) above the maximum water level and rigidly attached to the structure adjacent to or enclosing the pool.

Ruben Rocha
04-11-2009, 09:53 AM
Well you don't actually need a rope you can use a tape measure ,the rope is just an example. Same as if the light was a receptacle, plug an extension cord in it and run the cord the shortest distance to the waters edge. That is the length.
But you still have the issue of running the underground wiring which is measured to the waters edge without obstacles.
There is a lot to keep up with when dealing with pools
As far as what code most states in the SE USA use the international code and adopt pretty quick.
Here is Florida we are still on the 2005.
Best thing is to call your local building dept and ask waht code they are using and if they have any local amendments.

I don't have the 2008 because we don't use it yet.
But in case you are not aware. When you are reading the 2008 if anything was changed from the previous code book there will be a vertical line to the side of the paragraph indicating it was changed.
Sometimes the change could be just wordsmithing or an actual requirement change.
So for whatever article your reference in the 2008 if you don't see the vertical line then you know that section did not change from the 2005.

niteliters
04-13-2009, 09:20 AM
if you install a light from 5-10ft of the pool it has to be grounded and on a GFCI, so essentially it has to be 120v lighting per the code. We do have a fiber optic lighting fixture product line coming out that will blow all your minds!

Now I will say you can speak witht he inspector and explain since there is grey area in the code for lv that if you use a Pool and Spa rated Transformer on a GFCI with Secondary Fuse Protection can you power those lights up?

We are also working ona 12v GFI to help accomodate this code!

rememebr though NO LIGHTS WITHIN 5 FT PERIOD! The code fears sosmeone could use the fixture as a prop to pull themself out of the pool and shock and kill themselves with that mighty 12v shock!! LOL Actually they fear the 120v but to much grey area for LV in article 680 of the NEC.


Joey, pool/ spa rated transformer, what's different about its make up. all the details you care to share my brother

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
04-13-2009, 11:50 AM
It is the faraday shield that makes the difference Chris. A 'pool & spa' rated transformer has an isolating (grounded) shield that physically speparates the primary side from the secondary side. This removes any possibility of a short between primary and secondary windings.

Ruben Rocha
04-13-2009, 04:03 PM
Hence why inspectors look for a ul listing on equipment for pools or around them.
Or they reference the UL white book.
It is called CYA in the building department. So they don't have to make a field judgment call or interpretation on their own.