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View Full Version : Taking away paid personal time


dmunoz
04-19-2009, 09:44 PM
What do you think about taking away a benefit from employees. I pay my employees personal time and vacation time. I've been too generous and now it's costing me. I have some long-term employees who have accumulated a lot of paid time off and I have to use temps or reschedule jobs when they use their paid time off. I'm thinking about taking away their paid personal time and letting them keep their vacation time. I can't afford to keep paying them to not be at work.

wbw
04-19-2009, 10:19 PM
Have a two tiered system where you aren't so generous with new hires. You may also want to consider not allowing them to continue to accrue more personal time. However, I wouldn't attempt to take away the time they have already earned.

Bru75
04-20-2009, 12:20 AM
Change your policy so future personal time expires if not used by a certain date, don't let it add up.
I don't think you will be able to take it away from the guys who have earned it, it is part of the compensation that you promised them. Your crew needs to know that they can trust what you tell them.

AmsoilPower
04-20-2009, 12:44 AM
Taking away what is rightfully theirs will create nothing but negativity. If you want to cease a benefit, start it say 30 days from now. Assure them you will honor what they have earned but there will be no more from such and such date. Allow enough time for the steam to dissapate from their heads and if they are good people they will understand.

Fvstringpicker
04-20-2009, 10:33 AM
You will not prevail in court if you take it away. Change your policy to a maximum days they can accumulate and you better get legal advise on this.

HOOLIE
04-20-2009, 02:11 PM
If you feel you must reduce/eliminate personal time, do it for new hires, not your current guys. Taking away bennies and perks is a great way to kill morale amongst your employees. Whether the 'writing is on the wall' or not, they will think that writing's there. Smart guys abandon ship before it sinks, so to speak, don't want your best workers to leave.

ED'S LAWNCARE
04-22-2009, 09:05 PM
Limit the accum portion. Do not take away what is already theirs. Just think if you worked for a guy for a long time bustin your butt earning the time off and one day he says I can't afford to give you your earned time off. I know if that was me you'd be seeing a dr to get a new grill.:laugh:

Toy2
04-22-2009, 09:28 PM
Were they building time instead of OT pay?

I don't think its a good idea to take it away, just set an ending date and take it from there.

dwlah
04-22-2009, 09:44 PM
Just my .02
Could you roll the pto vacation sick and holiday time into one grouping
set a max of hours to the total of accumalated time for say 2 years
Example
80 hours vacation + 40 pto+ 40 sick + 40 holiday = 200 hours to take how ever they want
Time stops accumalating after he has 400 hours on the books(does implement a use it or lose policy)
Guys with more vacation time will have more time off
Guy doesnt have time on the books for a holiday then he gets an uncompensated day off
I would pick a figure where the guy with the most amount of time on the books has at least a couple of months to max out

Another thing you may think about is buying back vacation time at the end of the year(just before Christmas)
Allow the employee to sell his time back to you at the end of the year
Set some rules like must have a min number of hours on the books or a max number of hours they can sell back to you

dwlah
04-22-2009, 09:49 PM
One other thing I would let them acumalate the time per pay period

200 hours of time divided by 52 weeks=3.85 hours per week

WheatBookkeeping
05-21-2011, 09:15 PM
Guys, always remember to record vacation and personal time, thatís accrued by your employees, as both an expense and liability.

As part of the pay cycle, when wages are calculated for work performed, the accrued time-off benefit amount will be posted as an increase to both the Personal/Vacation Expense account and the Personal/Vacation Payable account.

When the employee takes time off, you will decrease the Personal/Vacation Payable account by the value of the hours used up.

AI Inc
05-22-2011, 06:03 AM
Cut em a check for unused time 2 weeks before christmass every yr. They will be happy with that.

Greg78
05-22-2011, 08:08 AM
OP seeing as how this thread is 2 years old, what did you do? How did your employees handle it?

snomaha
05-22-2011, 10:33 AM
Just my .02
Could you roll the pto vacation sick and holiday time into one grouping
set a max of hours to the total of accumalated time for say 2 years
Example
80 hours vacation + 40 pto+ 40 sick + 40 holiday = 200 hours to take how ever they want
Time stops accumalating after he has 400 hours on the books(does implement a use it or lose policy)
Guys with more vacation time will have more time off
Guy doesnt have time on the books for a holiday then he gets an uncompensated day off
I would pick a figure where the guy with the most amount of time on the books has at least a couple of months to max out

Another thing you may think about is buying back vacation time at the end of the year(just before Christmas)
Allow the employee to sell his time back to you at the end of the year
Set some rules like must have a min number of hours on the books or a max number of hours they can sell back to you

We went to a system similar this. All days off including vacation, sick or personal fall under PTO. Holiday pay only goes to salaried employees and is not considered part of PTO. PTO accrues based on hrs worked rather then length of time and is capped at a certain amount based on the employees job title. Most of our qualified people are capped at 80 hrs.

GreenI.A.
05-22-2011, 05:39 PM
Where this is old i'll asume the op found a solution so I'll just share what I have seen done with success at a few companies. One is a buy back like many of the guys above said. For every hour the employee sells back you pay them for 1.5-2 hrs. This encourages the guys to not take the time off and work. Also do simularly to encourage them to take vacations during slow times. Say a time period like mid july to late august when temps are at their highest for the year and grass growth is at its slowest, offer an incentive to take vaca time during this time.

TJLANDS
05-22-2011, 06:21 PM
I can't afford to keep paying them to not be at work.

Sorry , but the last line kinda answered your own question.
Its your business do what you can afford or what you want to afford.

I am the scrooge here. My business is seasonal, I do not offer sick days or vacation days. You dont work you lose.
The only incentive is a year end bonus based on days missed and late days.
My salary guys get paid 52 weeks. They are off from Dec 15th to march 1st,
unless it snows. (they will work occasionally doing maintenance and some minor winter work.) Doing pretty much the same thing for 22 years.

Kelly's Landscaping
05-22-2011, 11:03 PM
Your the boss if you want to change your policy then do it. You point out you have to deal with temps and all that crap and that's killing you. I would handle it this way its not the time off that matters its the fact that you told them you would pay them for it. So if I were you and wanted out of this system I would let them know you will no longer be doing this benefit and then I would pay each man his accumulated time on the spot as a bonus check. In one bold move you've ended the program and you have honored the monetary agreement and best of all you need not hire temps since now they are expected to do their jobs again or simply not get paid in the future.

Roger
05-23-2011, 06:56 AM
...

80 hours vacation + 40 pto+ 40 sick + 40 holiday = 200 hours to take how ever they want

....

I know the thread is more than two years old, but this statement jumps out. It is similar to others I've seen that leaves me to wonder what has happened.

The "40 sick" is the troubling part. Far too many employees consider any sick time as "personal time," time they are entitled to take off work, whether sick or not. For years and years, I worked in a system with no sick time specified. If you were sick, you didn't come to work. If not sick, then you showed up to work. If the sick period went for an extended time, then provisions were made. But, specifying a given number of hours "to be sick" over a year only leads to a slacking work ethic.

I know, unrelated to the OP's question, but I see this kind of reference often, and it leaves me shaking my head.