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View Full Version : Spikes for paver edging(snap edge) prices!!!!!


l3en007
04-20-2009, 03:39 PM
WHY ARE THESE THINGS SO FRIGGEN EXPENSIVE! My supplier told me that alot of people have good things to say about the new "plastic" spikes/nails. They are 20 cents cheaper (70 cents a piece) then the metal stakes. Is it me or do these things seem unreasonably priced? I dont know, i just couldnt believe I payed $115.00 for a box of 150 spikes. Any thoughts or ideas to get these cheaper? thanks!

BOEpavers
04-20-2009, 06:00 PM
I've never tried the plastic spikes and don't think I ever will. As for the steel spikes, our supplier told us towards the end of last season that the prices were going to raise dramatically due to import tariffs and such. Apparently there are no US manufacturers of 10" or 12" spikes. I was paying in the neighborhood of $50-60 a box and this was going to raise up to the $100 plus range. My supplier had several skids of spikes in stock and he offered me all I wanted at the old price. This is one advantage of loyalty with your suppliers -every one else (homeowners, occasional contractor customers, etc.) were going to pay the "new" price for this product even though it was purchased at the previous lower cost. I took him up on it and had enough to finish last season, get me through this, and probably into next.

DVS Hardscaper
04-20-2009, 06:41 PM
We tried plastic spikes and we hated them. Primarily because if you hit even a small rock....it stops, whereas a steel spike would more than likely burst through the wmall rock.

I hope it's not you paying for ANY spikes. That is a cost that the customer needs to pay for. Hey, folks, last I checked hardscape jobs were luxuries....not comodidies(sp).

We are paying around 70 to 80 cents for GALVANIZED spikes and we're NOT using COMMON spikes. I make this clear to the client that steel prices have increased sharply and that we're not jeopardizing the craftsmanship of their project over 40 bucks.



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ROYBOBCAT
04-20-2009, 07:06 PM
I've always been advised to use steel spikes because of the rust slag that builds on them keeps them in the ground better. In fact we are replacing an old paver project now where the contractor used both kinds, and the galvis pulled right out where as the steel ones were a @%##%. to get out.

amscapes03
04-20-2009, 08:19 PM
Your right Roy.....galvies and plastic will pop up with the freeze and thaw cycle, while the steel gets a nice crusty rust build-up and stays put.
I agree with DVS too.....tried plastic once, only once. What a bunch of junk!

DVS Hardscaper
04-20-2009, 08:28 PM
We have only ever used galvanized spikes. If the base is properly compacted, and if the correct aggregate is used.....galvanized spikes do NOT pull up easily, not easily at all.


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amscapes03
04-20-2009, 09:20 PM
I agree with you DVS, proper compaction is where it all starts. I go back and forth using galvanized and steel spikes, and have never had a problem with either one. If your getting 90-95% PD, not only do galvanized (or steel) spikes not pull up easily, their just as hard getting in. The winters up here in MA are a bit more harsh than MD, not to mention the crazy freeze and thaw cycles we've had over the past several years. Every walkway (done by someone else) I've demoed and rebuilt over the past 3 to 4 years had major edging/spike issues, not to mention every other issue under the sun. It all starts with a proper base, and proper compaction. Plain and simple.

Bru75
04-20-2009, 11:43 PM
Good grief!!! $115 a box? I haven't bought spikes since Jan. and they were $58 for a box of 150. I've got to call my supplier.
Everything I've ever read or heard said to use regular steel spikes for the reasons described above. I wouldn't even try plastic.
DVS is right, though, the customer pays for material. Nobody is going to notice when spikes are just part of the total.

BOEpavers
04-21-2009, 09:13 AM
We only use galvanized also and have never had a problem with them lifting. I agree compaction is the key. If the spike goes in easy - the base isn't compacted enough. My feelings are a plastic spike (at least any plastic or composite I've seen) wouldn't be able to penetrate a properly compacted base.

zedosix
04-22-2009, 08:46 PM
Your right Roy.....galvies and plastic will pop up with the freeze and thaw cycle, while the steel gets a nice crusty rust build-up and stays put.
I agree with DVS too.....tried plastic once, only once. What a bunch of junk!

In my experience with steel spikes is the frost grabs them and lifts them up then your screwed with trying to get it down again. I just pulled a section up yesterday from a job we did 11 yrs ago the nails were about an inch wide! there was no way it was going back in the ground. The galvanized or plastic won't do this. If they do come up they will go down just as easy.

l3en007
04-22-2009, 10:38 PM
In my experience with steel spikes is the frost grabs them and lifts them up then your screwed with trying to get it down again. I just pulled a section up yesterday from a job we did 11 yrs ago the nails were about an inch wide! there was no way it was going back in the ground. The galvanized or plastic won't do this. If they do come up they will go down just as easy.

Thats a good point....I used the plastic spikes yesterday and had no issues with spikes "hitting stones, etc...."> They went in just fine! If they were to come up one day, guess id have to just hammer them back down!

LB1234
04-27-2009, 11:26 PM
Thats a good point....I used the plastic spikes yesterday and had no issues with spikes "hitting stones, etc...."> They went in just fine! If they were to come up one day, guess id have to just hammer them back down!


Travel a little north and get into this clay/shale/rock mixture we have.

AllHardscaping
04-30-2009, 01:58 PM
I always used non galv. They rust in place and hold better. Pull an old one out and it is all jagged and fatter then when new. THis has holding/ grabbing power. Galvanized spikes wont rust in place and are smoother, the frost will push them up easier. Give it a few years and you will see. Plastic just seems like a bad idea to me. I got a lot of repair biz on old patios with edging coming up because the stakes rose a little every year and now the edging is above the pavers. Edging is one of those necessary evils. I hate it

acclaim3
02-29-2012, 04:10 PM
I have a one time deal on 12" spikes smooth.
$25/ 50 lbs box, 48 boxes per pallet.
8 pallets. Sold by pallet only. FOB Minneapolis, MN.
Spikes have some rust from condensation during shipping.
email me for pictures and delivered price.
keith@acclaimmetals.com
610-941-6000

zedosix
02-29-2012, 06:07 PM
Those nails will only rust in the ground and be rendered useless in no time. The frost grabs the rust and pushes them up. Can't put them back in after.

acclaim3
02-29-2012, 06:18 PM
I just sell them. They are the 3/8" round x 12" long steel spikes.
Seems like the people on here like them from what I read.
That is what ROYBOBCAT and amscapes03 said. Obviously use what you feel is best.

zedosix
02-29-2012, 06:47 PM
Maybe they're good in the warmer parts of the world. If they were galvanized I'd buy a pallet.

Danscapes
02-29-2012, 07:39 PM
Only spiral galvanized here. And your getting stroked on price! I pay .36 a piece for 1 or 10,000.

DVS Hardscaper
02-29-2012, 07:48 PM
Like I said, we only use galvanized. No two ways about it.

And when talkin prices, we need to make sure we're talkin the same diameter. And same length.


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STL Ponds and Waterfalls
02-29-2012, 07:50 PM
Those nails will only rust in the ground and be rendered useless in no time. The frost grabs the rust and pushes them up. Can't put them back in after.

I thought it was just the opposite. Maybe it is a climate deal like you said.

DVS Hardscaper
02-29-2012, 08:09 PM
I thought it was just the opposite. Maybe it is a climate deal like you said.

Folks have tried to justify the use of common spikes by saying the rust burrs are important.

Dude, 16 years of using galvanized spikes and we never had any suddenly tent pole out of the ground.


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STL Ponds and Waterfalls
02-29-2012, 08:46 PM
LOL! For once I went against the grain and got it right. Galvanized is all we have at my local stores, and I wasn't searching for regular spikes. Than again it doesn't matter as I set my edges in concrete anyway. Better put the Nomex suit on.

zedosix
02-29-2012, 10:04 PM
I have over the years thrown hundreds of linear feet of restraint edge in the garbage due to the use of common nails. I started to use the galvanized a few years back even though they cost 40% more.

crazymike
03-01-2012, 12:03 AM
I have over the years thrown hundreds of linear feet of restraint edge in the garbage due to the use of common nails. I started to use the galvanized a few years back even though they cost 40% more.

Paver Pete says to use non galvanized. I assumed they work better in southern climates or else they would recommend spending more money on product...

I've always used galvanized spikes. It's added into material costs, irrelevant what they cost.

I've never had any shoot out of the ground either.

I can't imagine using plastic spikes. They seem like they would get brittle in cold weather, especially with age. But I guess edge restraint doesn't break in the cold, so who knows.

DVS Hardscaper
03-01-2012, 12:15 AM
metal that rusts eventually turns to nothing. these spikes are usually, what, 3/8" diameter? Or are they 1/2"? I can't remember. if they're not galvanized they will rust away to nothing. We're not talking a huge diameter that will take 55 years.

I was at.....of all places......a TECHO-BLOC showcase where guess who was preachin on using common spikes instead of galvanized. So sure of himself. So sure of himself. But how many edge restraints has he pulled up? I'll guess NONE. How many old swing sets and metal fence posts has he pulled out of the ground? I'll guess NONE. How many galvanized spikes has he seen tent pole out of the ground......that were of proper diameter and installed in base that was properly compacted? I'll guess NONE.


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DVS Hardscaper
03-01-2012, 12:17 AM
Paver Pete says to use non galvanized. I assumed they work better in southern climates or else they would recommend spending more money on product...

I've always used galvanized spikes. It's added into material costs, irrelevant what they cost.

I've never had any shoot out of the ground either.

I can't imagine using plastic spikes. They seem like they would get brittle in cold weather, especially with age. But I guess edge restraint doesn't break in the cold, so who knows.



haha - we posted 12 minutes apart, but I swear i didnt see your post until AFTERT I posted! No it didnt take me 12 minutes to type that, I was doing other things and it took me 12 minutes to getting around to hitting the post button!

We both mentioned you know who!


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crazymike
03-01-2012, 01:36 AM
haha - we posted 12 minutes apart, but I swear i didnt see your post until AFTERT I posted! No it didnt take me 12 minutes to type that, I was doing other things and it took me 12 minutes to getting around to hitting the post button!

We both mentioned you know who!


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I've watched all Petes videos lol

He reminds of Al Borlen from home improvement! So serious and with his beard. And he gets out his nuclear testing equipment to benchmark his penetrometer. And he has a special tool for every little job.

He claims the rust helps.

In my personal experience, rust does help with things. Usually when my stuff rusts, it breaks. It definitely does not add to the integrity of any of my vehicles...

zedosix
03-01-2012, 07:31 AM
So is Paver Pete the paver god, he's big on theory but I haven't seen him do more than lay one block and pull these fancy 6' aluminum screed rods. Galvanized Pete, galvanized!

crazymike
03-01-2012, 12:03 PM
So is Paver Pete the paver god, he's big on theory but I haven't seen him do more than lay one block and pull these fancy 6' aluminum screed rods. Galvanized Pete, galvanized!

I saw one video, he did a double car driveway with a massive, ride on smooth drum roller. The kind I've used to do final grade in a massive parking lot.

The amount they spent on equipment rentals, floats, they could have sprung for galvanized...

Gilmore.Landscaping
03-01-2012, 11:15 PM
Common, common, common...Its the only thing I have ever used...BUT working with a company thats been in the industry for 25 years uses them....so I am going to follow what they do. :)

DVS Hardscaper
03-01-2012, 11:44 PM
Common, common, common...Its the only thing I have ever used...BUT working with a company thats been in the industry for 25 years uses them....so I am going to follow what they do. :)

Please don't take this the wrong way, gilmore :)

But 25 yrs is a broad term. On another forum there was someone saying they are approaching their 25 yrs anniversary. Well, I know the history of pavers in the united states, so I'm thinking "how can that be?" I read all the responses "wow I bet you seen alot" and "boy I bet you could tell some stories", and what have you. I'm reading such responses and still thinking "somethings not adding up". Finally at the end of the thread the TC (topic creator) says "well I started off doing this and we been doing hardscapes for the last 15 or 16 years". Ok, now we're gettin somewhere! Sounds like my story.

Same thing with a competitor in my area. Claiming 20 some yrs of experience with pavers. I knew the old man that started the company very well. Yeah they may have been in business for 20 some years - but they aint been doing pavers any more than 10 yrs.

So 25 yrs. is this 25 yrs dedicated to interlocking pavers? or 25 yrs starting out as a brick mason or lawn mowing company?

The reason I'm axin is cuz Canada is ahead of the US in terms of paver history.

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Gilmore.Landscaping
03-01-2012, 11:58 PM
Please don't take this the wrong way, gilmore :)

But 25 yrs is a broad term. On another forum there was someone saying they are approaching their 25 yrs anniversary. Well, I know the history of pavers in the united states, so I'm thinking "how can that be?" I read all the responses "wow I bet you seen alot" and "boy I bet you could tell some stories", and what have you. I'm reading such responses and still thinking "somethings not adding up". Finally at the end of the thread the TC (topic creator) says "well I started off doing this and we been doing hardscapes for the last 15 or 16 years". Ok, now we're gettin somewhere! Sounds like my story.

Same thing with a competitor in my area. Claiming 20 some yrs of experience with pavers. I knew the old man that started the company very well. Yeah they may have been in business for 20 some years - but they aint been doing pavers any more than 10 yrs.

So 25 yrs. is this 25 yrs dedicated to interlocking pavers? or 25 yrs starting out as a brick mason or lawn mowing company?

The reason I'm axin is cuz Canada is ahead of the US in terms of paver history.

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I know what your saying, there are a couple long time maintenance companies in town (who do great maintenance) that now do hardscaping and imply like they have been doing it from the beginning...some looks like shiat

But anyway the company I work for has been doing pavers for 23 years. (sorry I exaggerated a bit) we have even gone back to rip out projects we (the company) did 20+ years ago because they are bored or looking for a fresh look. And they are still in better condition then what the "competition" put in 5 years ago.

zedosix
03-02-2012, 07:50 AM
I just spoke yesterday with the brother of my old boss and we were trying to figure out when he started his interlock business, it was 1984. I started with him in 85' doing interlock. I'll never forget how we used to screed with a large rake, and lay the brick, no string-lines, no squares, no transits (not sure we had a tape measure either)!! When the brick was finished and compacted we would take a garden hose and run it on the patio to find the low spots, then we would lift as required. haha. I also remember devising a way to screed by using 4x4's and a 2x6' man it left quite a hole when we pulled them up. Ah the simpler life.....

crazymike
03-02-2012, 09:30 AM
I just spoke yesterday with the brother of my old boss and we were trying to figure out when he started his interlock business, it was 1984. I started with him in 85' doing interlock. I'll never forget how we used to screed with a large rake, and lay the brick, no string-lines, no squares, no transits (not sure we had a tape measure either)!! When the brick was finished and compacted we would take a garden hose and run it on the patio to find the low spots, then we would lift as required. haha. I also remember devising a way to screed by using 4x4's and a 2x6' man it left quite a hole when we pulled them up. Ah the simpler life.....


I did a backhoe job for a guy a couple years ago. 'High end' home builder. It was excavate for gas line hookup and backfill the garage.

He just had me backfill the entire garage all at once. (footings were deep for second story garage). Rocks, garbage, clumps of half frozen dirt, everything, just heap it in there.

He told me he just let the hose run in there over the weekend and everything flattened and compacted on it's own with the water.

He would hit it with the plate compactor after it dried a bit and pour concrete.

He'd been in business for 25+ years.

Moral of the story, just because you've been doing it a certain way for a long time, doesn't mean it's right and doesn't mean you shouldn't change.

He'd been in business for 30 years.


This isn't a stab at gilmore. I was always told common. But now I've gone to galvanized and feel it's a good decision.

Gilmore.Landscaping
03-02-2012, 11:07 AM
It may not be the "correct" way but after this many years why change when it working??

We also don't lay our pavers on sand in most situation but that's not "correct" either. Doesn't mean we are going to change because once again we have been doing to for 23 years without issue so why change.
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zedosix
03-02-2012, 12:08 PM
it may not be the "correct" way but after this many years why change when it working??

We also don't lay our pavers on sand in most situation but that's not "correct" either. Doesn't mean we are going to change because once again we have been doing to for 23 years without issue so why change.
posted via mobile device

no sand!!! Bad boy

DVS Hardscaper
03-02-2012, 01:05 PM
Ins not "change". A business must always be willing to *improve*.

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Gilmore.Landscaping
03-02-2012, 01:08 PM
I guess we don't see the "impovement" so there is no need to change
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DVS Hardscaper
03-02-2012, 11:21 PM
It's very common for business owners to not see alotta stuff. They're set in their ways. Too busy to really stop and think with reason. Many havent been in the field in eons.

Spikes are a minor component of an interlocking system, many guys just haven't ever thought about spikes.

I'm a thinker. So much so, you could say it's a favorite past time of mine. Anything that crosses my mind, you can be assured I'll get to the bottom of it.


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