Were you there????

[dwc]

Just wondering what everyone does to prove you were really at a property and made the treatment you say you did? Such as a picture or something? If someone denies you were there you need some proof that you were otherwise they do not have to pay. And no a simple time and date doesn't cut it! Please let me know your ideas!
Thanks

[IntegrityGuy]

pictures are the best evidence. Also put up door hangers saying " we were here" that says what you did and when you did it.

[txgrassguy]

I post with a flag and my of course document in my application record as well.
Since I stay away from granular products, even fert, people know when I apply from the tracker dye.

[dwc]

We leave info on the door saying what was done and time. We also leave a sign at every treatment. Some deny receiving these also. That's why I am wondering what would be solid evidence you were there and did the treatment.
Thanks for you reply

[garydale]

Over the years it has happened a few times.
I currently teach our techs to not blow off certain things like downspout splash blocks. Then the office staff can tell them to look there.

Ghosting(not the treating lawn)has been around as long as lawn care itself.

Fert. pellets in mulch, spreader tracks, odor and weeds curling are all good telling items.

I tell all clients,that show this type of doubt that they are paying for results.
When its done, how fast its done etc. is unimportant if you get the results promised.

I have shown the above things to some accounts and then canceled them for their accusations and attitude. I love having that ability.

Thank you for letting me vent.

[betmr]

Just wondering what everyone does to prove you were really at a property and made the treatment you say you did? Such as a picture or something? If someone denies you were there you need some proof that you were otherwise they do not have to pay. And no a simple time and date doesn't cut it! Please let me know your ideas!
Thanks

Are'nt you required to flag a treated area where you are ? In N.J. It is required to mark out any treated area. I mean who wants to walk across a lawn that has just had pesticides sprayed on it, maybe in sandles ?

[dwc]

we are not required to but choose to on our own.
The main reason for looking into this is because I sprayed a lawn a year ago and the guy called a month later to tell me he didn't think we had been there. He has never paid and I just lost in small claims because the judge said I can't prove I was there. I argued that there was not much to show the man a month later because all my granules were gone and it was clear liquid weed contol. The man and his wife denied having anything left on the door or a sign in the lawn. The judge said unless I had a witness or solid evidence I was there then this guy gets the last laugh! Just trying to prevent this in the future.

[Ric]

Yo

Computer-Printer in the truck, I am posting from the front yard of a customer right now. Invoice in the door and pesticide flag in front yard. If I have to fight with them They can keep it as a Free Application and fight with TG/CL as their next provider.

[LushGreenLawn]

You can't prevent those customers 100% of the time. Really how often is this going to happen?

I always post a sign and leave a door hangar. I've never had a single person question if I was there or not. I did have one person tell me that they couldn't see any granules. The last company never blew off the driveway, so they expected a driveway full of granules. Once I explained that I cleaned the driveway, they saw some granules on the edge of the driveway and the turf and all was well.

I have one round that is all liquid, and even then I have never had anyone question me other than the one guy.

[dwc]

I understand you can't outsmart the dead beats 100% of the time. We try to make sure they know we were there, either by talking to them if they are outside or leaving a bag with info on the door and we always leave a sign for lawn treatments. Some people are just crooked and there is nothing you can do with them I reckon, especially with the corrupt judicial system here.
We get several calls per round of people not thinking we actually treated the lawn even though we leave all the stuff at their property. I had one call in on myself yesterday on a few new lawns I did that were convinced I didn't even go in the backyard. They call in on our other guys regularly also to falsely accuse us of ripping them off.
I agree as someone stated earlier that they pay for results so whats it matter to them if I do a sacred Indian war dance in the front yard as long as it keeps the weeds out? We try our best to do every customer right, but some just can't stand it!

[humble1]

I call my customers before I come, I keep a call log in the truck, comes in handy when someone says no you didnt cal, and I can tell them what days and times i called. I take before and after pics on almost all accounts. I do a service slip, flag and bill them that night. If someones not going to pay it doesnt matter what you do. One thing I have learned over 20 years of buisness. I dont ever get a good customer if the first thing out of their mouth is "do you give free estimates?"

[Whitey4]

I guess I've been lucky, but my client base is very small compared to most of you guys, since i am a full service LCO. When I put down lime, I leave nothing... just a bill at the end of the month. I'm pretty tight with my customers, sort of like the defunct country doctor. Mutual trust. But, as in the case of a lime app, I have accurate equipment and ask the customers to witness the soil test for pH. That sort of thing develops trust.

If I can't have that relationship with a new customer, I fire them. Since I'm there every week, the relationship is a more partnership type. That si how I get so many new planting and renovation jobs. If I tell a customer to aerate, they agree.

Being a full service LCO is a completely different animal than vertical services like apps only. I get fruit inhibitor apps this way... just by regular communications with my customers face to face.

[dwc]

the "free estimate" people are the world's worst! Sometimes I think about telling them $30 for an estimate if you decide not to use our services, just to weed out the tire kickers. My mowing/full service side is like you are talking about Whitey, not near as many people and if there is a slow payer or problem I can kick them to the curb and have them replaced very soon. I talk one on one with my full service people lots more than people I only visit 5 times a year. The app side of this is way too many people to have to deal with for a considerable less amount of money per year per customer. 30 full service accounts of decent size might keep 1 guy busy while it takes 500 app only customers to keep that same guy busy.
I guess if someone doesn't want to pay there are not many "rights" for a contractor to get paid. We need the "better customer bureau" so we could check out customers before we accept them as clients! Anyone want to start this?

[RigglePLC]

It happens. One guy claimed he watched and I did the back and a neighbors yard and forgot the front. Checked for granules--he was right--whoops.

Another case, an older guy was asleep in a rocking chair on the front porch. Never woke up. Wife calls next day--said he told her I never did the lawn, although the bill was in the back door. They eventually canceled--which was OK with me as they were 20 miles away.

[Whitey4]

It happens. One guy claimed he watched and I did the back and a neighbors yard and forgot the front. Checked for granules--he was right--whoops.

Another case, an older guy was asleep in a rocking chair on the front porch. Never woke up. Wife calls next day--said he told her I never did the lawn, although the bill was in the back door. They eventually canceled--which was OK with me as they were 20 miles away.

Should have kicked the rocking chair with the 'ol basad sittin in it, Riggs.

[Rcgm]

A little bit different story I was on vacation one week in august we were in a drought so not much to do. I sent my worker over to a buddys house to rip out 4 yew bushes in the front landscape for him. I said you know where Todd lives right he said yes over on ehler drive I said yes.He then said doesn't he have drive a red ford f150 I said yep. Well I called him later from Myrtle Beach and said how did it go he said no problem but there was 5 yews I said ok no problem thanks see you in a few days and we will get back to work. I get back and my friend called and said I thought you were going to take out those yews I said John came over on wednesday and removed then he said no he didn't they are still here. Well it turned out the guy next door had recently purchased a red ford f150 and my guy thought that was his house.:dizzy: The guy was on fishing trip so when he got home I explained to him what happened and he said that is awesome I had been wanting those removed LOL it turned out fine. But John goes no where anymore without a address.Not a fertilizer story but kinda fits in with them saying we were not there.

[Whitey4]

A little bit different story I was on vacation one week in august we were in a drought so not much to do. I sent my worker over to a buddys house to rip out 4 yew bushes in the front landscape for him. I said you know where Todd lives right he said yes over on ehler drive I said yes.He then said doesn't he have drive a red ford f150 I said yep. Well I called him later from Myrtle Beach and said how did it go he said no problem but there was 5 yews I said ok no problem thanks see you in a few days and we will get back to work. I get back and my friend called and said I thought you were going to take out those yews I said John came over on wednesday and removed then he said no he didn't they are still here. Well it turned out the guy next door had recently purchased a red ford f150 and my guy thought that was his house.:dizzy: The guy was on fishing trip so when he got home I explained to him what happened and he said that is awesome I had been wanting those removed LOL it turned out fine. But John goes no where anymore without a address.Not a fertilizer story but kinda fits in with them saying we were not there.

That is some funny chit, man! Glad it worked out.

[ted putnam]

I've never had the problem since going out on my own but back in the days of working for chemlawn occasionally there would be the customer who called to claim the lawn had not been treated. If I was aware that I had this type customer in my route I would throw a golf ball or a chew toy in the BBQ grill. Always proof that I had been there. Of course, that doesn't help a month later.

[turfman07]

Usually when they start that kind of crap all they are really trying to say is...."I'm a DEADBEAT and I am trying to get something for nothing."
He hired you to keep the weeds out of his yard period. If he doesn't have any weeds, he shouldn't have anything to gripe about.
Tell him you didn't have to spray it cause you found a picture of his old lady and showed it to the weeds and scared them all away! :laugh:
Or....show up to his house about midnight and say "I need a check or I'm gonna rearrange your face."

No, I know you can't do that, but sometimes people make you want to.

Small business owners always seem get the short stick on this kind of stuff, and the sorriest low-life mutts just keep getting by. It's not fair.

[turfman07]

I call my customers before I come, I keep a call log in the truck, comes in handy when someone says no you didnt cal, and I can tell them what days and times i called. I take before and after pics on almost all accounts. I do a service slip, flag and bill them that night. If someones not going to pay it doesnt matter what you do. One thing I have learned over 20 years of buisness. I dont ever get a good customer if the first thing out of their mouth is "do you give free estimates?"

Humble,
Calling every customer isn't that bad if you only have a handful of yards to do that day, but when you have a list of 20 or 30 accounts to do every day...calling each one would be a nightmare. :dizzy:

I do agree with you about the free estimate thing. :usflag:

[cod8825]

Some people are paranoid I send out Statement of services before treating telling them what to expect and the date and time approximately I will be there like April 30th AM. If they want and some do they can sit on the porch and watch me.

[humble1]

A little bit different story I was on vacation one week in august we were in a drought so not much to do. I sent my worker over to a buddys house to rip out 4 yew bushes in the front landscape for him. I said you know where Todd lives right he said yes over on ehler drive I said yes.He then said doesn't he have drive a red ford f150 I said yep. Well I called him later from Myrtle Beach and said how did it go he said no problem but there was 5 yews I said ok no problem thanks see you in a few days and we will get back to work. I get back and my friend called and said I thought you were going to take out those yews I said John came over on wednesday and removed then he said no he didn't they are still here. Well it turned out the guy next door had recently purchased a red ford f150 and my guy thought that was his house.:dizzy: The guy was on fishing trip so when he got home I explained to him what happened and he said that is awesome I had been wanting those removed LOL it turned out fine. But John goes no where anymore without a address.Not a fertilizer story but kinda fits in with them saying we were not there.


I once sent my younger brother to aerate and overseed 20K at a customers summer house that was for sale. I said its the only house on the corner for sale. My brother stopped at the first house he saw on the street for sale and aerated and overseeded the wrong house. The worst part was the guy came home said hi to my brother and went inside, didnt say a dam thing.

[humble1]

Humble,
Calling every customer isn't that bad if you only have a handful of yards to do that day, but when you have a list of 20 or 30 accounts to do every day...calling each one would be a nightmare. :dizzy:

I do agree with you about the free estimate thing. :usflag:

WE have to pre notify in MA unless they opt out, I just call as I am going there, plus I get other buisness from being more personal, Like tick control or mosquito control

[PSUTURFGEEK]

One thing I did when I was still in the field everyday was flag the front and flag the back corner of the property, usually this takes away all doubt.

[IMAGE]

put GPS tracking in your truck. Then you can go back and say "Hey look, I can prove it, and it matches right up with what the invoice says, not just for your yard, but for the other ones I did that day, and every single other day also.

[Grandview]

put GPS tracking in your truck. Then you can go back and say "Hey look, I can prove it, and it matches right up with what the invoice says, not just for your yard, but for the other ones I did that day, and every single other day also.

This does not eliminate hanging paper. The truck might have stopped at the address but that does not prove an application was made.

[Smallaxe]

Fortunately I live in a small gossipy community so putting out the word about human trash is something most people don't want. Even in a dive of a tavern - someone says to you. "Hey, Big man - You got away with cheating the lawn boy?!?!?"

Plus no lawn service wants to be thought of as so in need of money or jobs that they will work for human trash...

[Ric]

HELLO

I sell results not service calls!!!! If you aren't happy with my results, then I don't want to be here. If you don't pay I dam sure am not going to be here. End of story.

[ted putnam]

hello

i sell results not service calls!!!! If you aren't happy with my results, then i don't want to be here. If you don't pay i dam sure am not going to be here. End of story.

ditto!!!!!

[dwc]

HELLO

I sell results not service calls!!!! If you aren't happy with my results, then I don't want to be here. If you don't pay I dam sure am not going to be here. End of story.

I understand not working for non-payers, and this guy in particular would never get me to treat his lawn again, even with prepaying. You burn your bridge with me and there's not a construction company in the world that could rebuild it. However, are you saying you let people pull fast ones on you all the time with no repercussions? I make life hard on them if they don't pay up (legally). Can't always get paid 100% of the time but life can get real hard.

I have considered gps tracking, but for the cost I have to look at would it really be worth it? say 1 out of every 2,000+ treatments does this, I dont know if it would be worth it for just that one or just put it on their credit report and let them worry about it at the car dealer next time. (have had that happen)
Pictures seem it would be about the same headache. A flag in the back would be an inexpensive solution as would moving something a little out or place as mentioned earlier. I might be able to prove this to most but there are one's like this guy that no matter what, even under oath, they will deny everything.
Thanks for all the replies!

[ejojr]

If you don't have the trust of your customer, you shouldn't be working for them. I give verbal estimates sometimes for hundreds, even thousands of dollars. The customer says OK, I do the job, send an invoice, the client pays me. Some bigger jobs have contracts, but many work requests are just verbal- nothing in writing, nothing signed, no deposit. Just do the job and here's your check. We have 140+ accounts. Nobody signed anything. We do the work, bill at the end of the month. Over 30 people pre-paid for the entire year up front. Customers can cancel at any time, and we can drop a client at any time for any reason. Why would you want to work for someone who disputes your word that you were there? And yes, for chem apps in NJ, we are required to keep a log of the applications (date/time/weather/product), as well as flag the property.

[dwc]

If you don't have the trust of your customer, you shouldn't be working for them. I give verbal estimates sometimes for hundreds, even thousands of dollars. The customer says OK, I do the job, send an invoice, the client pays me. Some bigger jobs have contracts, but many work requests are just verbal- nothing in writing, nothing signed, no deposit. Just do the job and here's your check. We have 140+ accounts. Nobody signed anything. We do the work, bill at the end of the month. Over 30 people pre-paid for the entire year up front. Customers can cancel at any time, and we can drop a client at any time for any reason. Why would you want to work for someone who disputes your word that you were there? And yes, for chem apps in NJ, we are required to keep a log of the applications (date/time/weather/product), as well as flag the property.

We don't currently do signed contracts or prepay. If we work for someone who is a habitual late payer we do require prepay from them. We do "trust" our customers, but when you have 1,000 or so app only customers, there is no way in the world you are ever gonna know each one of them personally like you would on a few full service accounts. We try to be as up front with everyone as possible and take extra measures to make sure they know what will happen and when and how.

We do not work for anyone who doesn't want us there or disputes us. If we are accused of not being there or not doing a good job or something more than 1 or 2 times, they just became someone else's problem. We tell these kind of people it is easier for us to find another customer than it is to find another employee that will put up with their mouth! This particular incident happened the 1st time we were on the property! There was no warning.

We are required to keep records of date, start time, stop time, weather, amount of mix used, amount of ai used, epa reg. #, original label from container, all customer info, and all the other crazy things the state and epa can think up. The judge said this was not "evidence" and was not allowed in court. Guess that just depends on what government agency you are dealing with!

[ejojr]

1,000 customers? That's great. I would never have the time to service that many, and I'm sure I'd get a dispute here of there too. I do apps for about 100 of my customers, but about 50 of them I sub out to TGCL. Curious, do you also do maintenance, and landscape design and installation? What's your average size property out there? 90% of our lawns are anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 acre. Most standard lots are 1/3 acre.

[dwc]

1,000 customers? That's great. I would never have the time to service that many, and I'm sure I'd get a dispute here of there too. I do apps for about 100 of my customers, but about 50 of them I sub out to TGCL. Curious, do you also do maintenance, and landscape design and installation? What's your average size property out there? 90% of our lawns are anywhere from 1/4 to 3/4 acre. Most standard lots are 1/3 acre.

I have 30 or so full maintenance accounts in addition to the app only's and pest control. No design or install. Every now and then when we are on top of things we might do a renovation or something but not often. Our lawns range around 6K up to 14 acres. Most are in the 6-20K range (actual sq. feet of lawns, not lots).

We don't get a lot of these type of people percentage wise, but sometimes it seems like every one we work for is whining! :hammerhead:

[IMAGE]

This does not eliminate hanging paper. The truck might have stopped at the address but that does not prove an application was made.

Proves you were there for 27 minutes, or however long, down to the minute. I think thats probally proof enough. If thats not good enough for a judge, nothing is.