Asphalt Tear Out Swell Factor

[ARP]

Hey guys,

I am preparing a bid that includes the tear out of a 65' x 44' asphalt pad that is approximately 3" thick. Looking through my reference material here, I can't find a "swell factor" for the purpose of figuring out how many triaxles are required to truck that amount of asphalt out from the project.

Just as dirt has a "swell or fluff factor" that needs to be accounted for, what is a good rule of thumb for asphalt removal? The material will be torn out and loaded up with my T320. It will not be crushed on site. A rough guess is 3 triaxle loads.

Thanks in advance,
Andrew

[jefftb]

Swell factor rule of thumb from my 20 year old excavation estimating handbook is 1.7 from bank to loose asphalt. It results as well from the inability to dump the irregular shapes that the asphalt will turn into when dumping it. In other words it takes up a lot of room in the dump but not weight necessarily.

Book is Dave Roberts Pipe & Excavation Estimating Handbook from 1987.

[Dirt Digger2]

it really depends on how you break it up..obviously larger chunks will have more voids as opposed to millings....

if you can do a good job and keep dirt out of it you might even be able to get some money for it at an asphalt plant for recycling

[ksss]

There are lot of variables with asphalt. The bigger the pieces the more air in the truck. Sometimes it is helpful to use a grapple bucket and snap the aspalt into smaller pieces. A little more time taken during loading can mean money saved on truck time. If the trucks are not yours and even if they are it is helpful sometimes to pull all the material up pile it up and then load the trucks. The time taken to pull up the asphalt and load at the same time will get costly. Also the more it is handled the smaller the pieces it will break into and thus the more material per truck.

[ARP]

Thanks guys for the responses. (And thank you Jeff for the book title, I'll have to add that to my library of Means Estimating Handbook and Estimating Excavation by Deryl Burch.)

The beauty of this job is that there is an asphalt plant 1 min from the site which should cut down on trucking tremendously. A balancing act is going to occur between how many times I want to handle the material (larger chunks would be more efficient to drag to the load out area, which is about 200 feet away and not large enough to move material around alot to process it) and the number of trucks I have to get. I was planning on tearing it out with either my combo bucket or grapple depending on how fragile it is, and piling it to load out at one time.

So based on the factor of 1.7, I'm looking at about 2 truck loads.

Thanks again for the help.

[Dirt Digger2]

if the plants that close i wouldn't worry too much...tear it up and pile like KSSS said, then load the truck and let him go...try and get as much in the trucks as you can if you need the 3rd truck just have him make a return trip

for a safe bet you might want to go with 80-90% rather then 70% like you are using...

so just thinking outloud here....

you figure there will be 715ft3 of material=26.5yds3

with 90% voids you are looking at 50yds3....tri-axles are around 20-22yds3....so you should be fine with 2 tri-axles if you mound it...i don't know how high your loader can reach

[mrsops]

Sounds like a nice job for the t320.. Where bidding on a job now to remove 3,000 yards of millings why dont you bring that t320 down here if we get the job :weightlifter:

[jefftb]

Thanks guys for the responses. (And thank you Jeff for the book title, I'll have to add that to my library of Means Estimating Handbook and Estimating Excavation by Deryl Burch.)

The beauty of this job is that there is an asphalt plant 1 min from the site which should cut down on trucking tremendously. A balancing act is going to occur between how many times I want to handle the material (larger chunks would be more efficient to drag to the load out area, which is about 200 feet away and not large enough to move material around alot to process it) and the number of trucks I have to get. I was planning on tearing it out with either my combo bucket or grapple depending on how fragile it is, and piling it to load out at one time.

So based on the factor of 1.7, I'm looking at about 2 truck loads.

Thanks again for the help.

I have the Deryl Burch book as well. I reference it when doing an excavation estimation that is unusal.

[ARP]

Dirt Digger- Your numbers look good and are what I got (never know sometimes, math is not as natural to me as other subjects :rolleyes:)

I like the 90% factor and you are right, it looks like just about 2 trucks if I run a little heavy over this short distance.

My T320 can load over trucks with 10 side boards so I'm not too worried about height problems. Wouldn't be as fast as if I had a wheel loader but I'm working with what I'm bringing kinda situation. Past experience tells me I can get those trucks loaded up pretty well.

Mrsops- shoot me a message if you are serious. I'd be glad to come on down and join the Bobcat party!

[Dirt Digger2]

haha yea i guess these last 4 years as got me kind of good with numbers....


official EIT status in 2 weeks when I graduate....:drinkup:

[ARP]

I guess this - :drinkup:- is in order then! I just picked up the cap and gown yesterday for the big ceremony in two weeks as well.

Congrats and good luck with the new job. Lookin forward to hearing about your adventures with those guys!

[Gravel Rat]

I think you would be better off having a rolloff truck with some 20 yard bins drop them on the ground and load them up. With a rolloff bin you can get a bigger chunk into them. Also easier to load with your machine.

You can't place the big chunks into a dump truck with a skid steer so they get all criss cross in the box and you can't get a full load you have more voids than air space.

[ARP]

I like the roll off idea, but unfortunately the asphalt company down the street doesn't have any. I might be stuck with the triaxles.

[Gravel Rat]

I didn't realize the company that is taking the old asphalt is hauling it away too and your loading them.

The big problem with loading chunks with a skid steer is you can't see your dropping pieces into a truck blind. If it doesn't dump out nicely and jams up you will have a earfull from the truck driver :laugh:

[AWJ Services]

Our trucks here only hold about 15 to 16 yards.

If you have to clean the area spotless then breaking the big chunks up to save truck space can make a mess.If it is going to the asphalt plant it is best just to keep it in large peices and clean.

[Gravel Rat]

If it comes up in large slabs which is what you want. I don't know if you have a grapple bucket but the biggest piece you can lift and not snap in half would be the best.

Been there trying to hand rake up little chunks of asphalt because it has to be a clean removal not fun :hammerhead:

[ARP]

The removal will be very clean as the area will be a children's playground. I will be using my grapple to tear it out in chunks and load it into the trucks.

Thanks for all the suggestions!

[SiteSolutions]

Good grief Gravel Rat... 3" thick, it will not get stuck in the bed. It will crumble nicely when dropped in. And more when additional bucketfuls are dropped on it. And any piece a CTL can load isn't going to be too big to go out the tail gate on a freakin triaxle.

Sounds like a nice little quick buck.

[Bob Horrell]

I just did a similar job, only 75yds. Recycle place wouldn't take any pieces over 2'X2'. I just grabbed the bigger pieces with my 4in1 bucket and broke them into smaller pieces. Demoed and loaded my truck with a bobcat S250. Easy one day job. The area had to be clean as it was to become part of a horse arena. Took 5 truck loads.

[Digdug]

I'd say 36yards is what it will amount to when loaded including swell and some gravel. Good luck. doug

[ARP]

Thanks guys. I'll plan on two truck loads.