Is this too big of a job for a skidsteer?

[wemfan]

I have 10 acres that I am currently in the process of building a house on. I have had a bulldozer and trac hoe working on it for a good while building the pond, constructing the house pad, etc. Now they are gone and I have a whole bunch of dirt that I have to decide what to do with.

The dirt we excavated out of the pond is 120'x210'x 3' high. You can see it in the pics. It is mostly clay and pond muck. There is another pile about 60'x120' x 3'. There is a pic of this pile, also. My plans are to scrape off the topsoil,stockpile it then move the pond material to that place, burm it, then replace the topsoil over it. Burms should look very good where I will be putting this material. Hauling the dirt away would just be too expensive. I also have 4 other large piles of topsoil that I need to move around the site as construction dictates.

My question is should I hire bigger equipment and have this work done or should I acquire a skidsteer and do it myself? Is using a skidsteer to do this work practical? I have access to a dump truck as some of the material needs to be moved from one part of the property to another. How long does it take to load a dumptruck with a skidsteer? I am looking for the most cost effective way to deal with my dirt issue. I don't want to waste money or bite off more than I can chew. I don't mind doing the work if it is practical. I would have to buy a skidsteer and borrow a dump truck. What do you guys think? I need some input. I will try and post some pics.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii30/garnettt/dirt010.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii30/garnettt/dirt011.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii30/garnettt/dirt013.jpg

[wemfan]

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii30/garnettt/dirt013.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii30/garnettt/dirt017.jpg

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii30/garnettt/dirt019.jpg

[Junior M]

well, if your Kaiser, no its not to big, if your a sane person, yes.. :laugh:

Just messing with you..

The big thing that effects this is the size skid you are buying and or renting and about how fast at loading, it depends on how good of an operator you are. I havent loaded enough trucks to really know how long it takes.

also, what size dump?

[Dirt Digger2]

you could do it with a skid loader...a CTL would be better for its traction...but with that heavy dirt it will take forever

or you could rent a trackloader...it looks like an easy job...how big is the dump truck you could use, and how far does the dirt need to be transported is the best question

if its a short haul then rent a trackloader and forget the truck

[wemfan]

I haven't purchased the skid, yet. I was hoping for some advice as to what I would need. I also don't know the size of dump truck I have access to, either. It is just one of those big jobs you see on construction sites everywhere.

I can drive a skidloader but haven't done it enough that I have any special skill. I have a farm tractor with a loader on it but I believe that would take forever trying to accomplish what I am trying to get done. I can hire a skidloader I just thought doing it myself might save some money and the skid would sure be handy for the rest of the job.

I need to move some of the dirt about 200 yards. That would be the longest distance I would be moving it.

[Junior M]

I am with Bryan on this one, trackloader..

[IMAGE]

The ground looks solid underneath. Maybe use something like a 544 or a 928?

[Dirt Digger2]

200 yard move at the longest i would probably just track the dirt over there...might take a little longer, but you figure with you moving from machine to truck, then driving the truck and dumping, then getting back in the loader...and having to push the dirt at the dump site every now and then...the tracking of the dirt might even be quicker

trackloaders are very simple to learn to run, especially if you rent one with a joystick loader rather then 2-stick...since you won't be doing a lot of digging there really isn't a whole lot of "skill" required...plus they are MUCH more comfortable then skids

i would say you could do the job in a weekend

[wemfan]

The ground is solid. It is a hayfield and I just dumped the dirt on it and from what I am told, the dirt needs to dry out for a few months before I start working with it.

What is a CTL or a trackloader?

Would a scraper be a better way to go?

[wemfan]

200 yard move at the longest i would probably just track the dirt over there...might take a little longer, but you figure with you moving from machine to truck, then driving the truck and dumping, then getting back in the loader...and having to push the dirt at the dump site every now and then...the tracking of the dirt might even be quicker

trackloaders are very simple to learn to run, especially if you rent one with a joystick loader rather then 2-stick...since you won't be doing a lot of digging there really isn't a whole lot of "skill" required...plus they are MUCH more comfortable then skids

i would say you could do the job in a weekend

Wow! I didn't think it could be accomplished that quickly. What makes the trackloader so much better than a skid?

[oakhillslandscaping]

backhoe or frontloader for sure if the ground is solid cause a skid steer will take forever to fill a ten wheel dump truck or bigger

[ARP]

Looks like a fun project. In bank yards (as it sits) you are looking at about 4700 yards of material between the two piles.

Without knowing your haul distance between where the piles are and where they need to go, it is hard to determine what kind of production you could get with any machine. But for reference, a large skidloader at best would be able to move just about a yard of material in a really heaped bucket. A Cat 928, 930, or 936 size wheel loader (which is a common size at a rental store), would be able to move about 3-4 yds heaped at one time. As these size comparisons show, this project will take a long time to move that much material with a skidloader, even though it may be done.

In my area, if that material where being moved anywhere from 200-500 feet, a wheel loader would be used and could move about 800-1000 yards a day (depending on terrain). A skid loader would be lucky to move a quarter of that in the same day over the same distance. While I don't have too much experience with a trackloader, a trackloader could be a nice alternative to a wheel loader as the final grading could be accomplished a lot easier with a track loader (assuming you are experienced with operating and grading with heavy equipment), than with a wheel loader. If all you want to do is move the material and give it some rough shape in a burm (in a reasonable amount of time), than a wheel loader would be the best alternative for this project.

Based on a wheel loader, you are looking at a 5 day project, where with a skid you are looking at about 18-20 days to move and shape the same amount of material.

It's your call, but I would rent or hire someone to come in with a wheel loader and do the project. Would be a lot cheaper than having to buy a decent skid loader and then invest 20 days of your time doing the project.

If you want to play however (as I would:cool2:), then depending on your budget and available "playtime", I would look at renting a wheel loader and or buying the skidloader.

Whatever you do, post some pics!

Andrew

[wemfan]

I found a trackloader on the Internet. That is a serious piece of equipment. I can see how that would get the job done.

A backhoe? I do have access to one but I figured they would be too unwieldly to load a truck very quickly. Is a back hoe a good option to accomplish what I am trying to do?

[Junior M]

I found a trackloader on the Internet. That is a serious piece of equipment. I can see how that would get the job done.

A backhoe? I do have access to one but I figured they would be too unwieldly to load a truck very quickly. Is a back hoe a good option to accomplish what I am trying to do?
a backhoe can do it, but they just take alot of room to turn around and I've seen a trackloader out grade a backhoe, dont know if it was the operator, but I'd go with the trackloader..

[stuvecorp]

I'd go with a 465(skid) and a tandem/tri dump. A wheel loader and a couple dumps if the ground holds is another option. Depending on the haul distance I'd try that Groundhog and a skid. A lot depends on budget or how fast you want to get it done, it may be way cheaper to just hire someone.

[wemfan]

Looks like a fun project. In bank yards (as it sits) you are looking at about 4700 yards of material between the two piles.

Without knowing your haul distance between where the piles are and where they need to go, it is hard to determine what kind of production you could get with any machine. But for reference, a large skidloader at best would be able to move just about a yard of material in a really heaped bucket. A Cat 928, 930, or 936 size wheel loader (which is a common size at a rental store), would be able to move about 3-4 yds heaped at one time. As these size comparisons show, this project will take a long time to move that much material with a skidloader, even though it may be done.

In my area, if that material where being moved anywhere from 200-500 feet, a wheel loader would be used and could move about 800-1000 yards a day (depending on terrain). A skid loader would be lucky to move a quarter of that in the same day over the same distance. While I don't have too much experience with a trackloader, a trackloader could be a nice alternative to a wheel loader as the final grading could be accomplished a lot easier with a track loader (assuming you are experienced with operating and grading with heavy equipment), than with a wheel loader. If all you want to do is move the material and give it some rough shape in a burm (in a reasonable amount of time), than a wheel loader would be the best alternative for this project.

Based on a wheel loader, you are looking at a 5 day project, where with a skid you are looking at about 18-20 days to move and shape the same amount of material.

It's your call, but I would rent or hire someone to come in with a wheel loader and do the project. Would be a lot cheaper than having to buy a decent skid loader and then invest 20 days of your time doing the project.

If you want to play however (as I would:cool2:), then depending on your budget and available "playtime", I would look at renting a wheel loader and or buying the skidloader.

Whatever you do, post some pics!

Andrew


Great post. The biggest pile of dirt is sitting where it needs to go. The problem is that I need to move it over then scrape the topsoil off then put it back. The smaller pile is about 150-200 yards away. I think it is the last pic. I appreciate your post and all of the posts. I am getting an education and I need it. Thanks...

[wemfan]

I'd go with a 465(skid) and a tandem/tri dump. A wheel loader and a couple dumps if the ground holds is another option. Depending on the haul distance I'd try that Groundhog and a skid. A lot depends on budget or how fast you want to get it done, it may be way cheaper to just hire someone.

What is a wheel loader? You may be right and maybe it would be cheaper to just hire someone. However, I am looking for an excuse to acquire a skidsteer. If I could save some money and justify the skid well, that is what I am trying to do but it doesn't look like it is working out. It needs to be done efficiently. I am exploring my options and you guys are helping me out a lot.

[ARP]

Glad to help. I'm still learning everyday so join the party! :drinkup: (Plus I would much rather help someone and talk about moving dirt than going to bed and getting up in a few hours :rolleyes: I'm addicted, what can I say?)

Anyway, if you have to "flop" that pile over, you are going to need more grunt than a skidloader will give you. Again, you can do it, but it will be a long and painful experience. A dozer is almost the best tool for that part of the job, but since you are looking for one machine I would stay with either the wheel loader or track loader. Again, as Dirt Digger said, a track loader is not that hard to learn, especially if you are looking at a skid with joystick controls.

The only differences between the two machines at that point that would really matter would be size and cost as they would both drive and operate in relatively the same fashion (left joystick controls direction and right joystick controls boom and bucket functions on both machines if in the ISO pattern).

[bobcatexc]

WOW! Your going to move that entire pile just to strip off a little bit of topsoil and then move it back???

My advice after reading this post HIRE SOMEBODY!!

[stuvecorp]

What is a wheel loader? You may be right and maybe it would be cheaper to just hire someone. However, I am looking for an excuse to acquire a skidsteer. If I could save some money and justify the skid well, that is what I am trying to do but it doesn't look like it is working out. It needs to be done efficiently. I am exploring my options and you guys are helping me out a lot.

This is a wheel loader. Don't blame you on wanting a skid, if you really want to start a scrum - ask which brand is the best.:laugh:

[ARP]

For reference:

Pic 1: Wheel loader
Pic 2: Track loader
Pic 3: Compact track loader (skid steer frame with a track undercarriage)

[wemfan]

WOW! Your going to move that entire pile just to strip off a little bit of topsoil and then move it back???

My advice after reading this post HIRE SOMEBODY!!

How else would you do it, Bob? The clay won't grow anything and the topsoil is under the clay so.... I am open to suggestions. Know another way to get that topsoil on top?

[wemfan]

For reference:

Pic 1: Wheel loader
Pic 2: Track loader
Pic 3: Compact track loader (skid steer frame with a track undercarriage)


I would like to add those toys to my remuda but alas the skidsteer was a stretch....thanks for the pics.

[CAT powered]

Please. That's no machine.

Here's a REAL wheel loader. :laugh:

[wemfan]

This is a wheel loader. Don't blame you on wanting a skid, if you really want to start a scrum - ask which brand is the best.:laugh:

Well, that was what I had figured they looked like, but now I know for sure. I would like to have that one for a day or two!

[ARP]

Not a problem. Remuda- had to look that one up :laugh:. Like I said, I learn something new all the time!

[Dirt Digger2]

i will answer this question with pictures....

keep in mind that this trackloader is an older model...ones in rental fleets are a little nicer then this believe it or not

heres a CTL...little bucket but can do smaller jobs

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll165/dirtdigger2/casedealer008.jpg
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll165/dirtdigger2/7-13-08002.jpg

heres a trackloader

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll165/dirtdigger2/12-15-08004.jpg
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll165/dirtdigger2/8-21-08005.jpg
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll165/dirtdigger2/4-12-08020.jpg
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll165/dirtdigger2/shop017.jpg

[ARP]

Haha Cat! You might be startin a war of "who can find the biggest wheel loader" with those kind of words! (I'm bettin someone is already pulling up a pic of a 994F).

[stuvecorp]

Haha Cat! You might be startin a war of "who can find the biggest wheel loader" with those kind of words! (I'm bettin someone is already pulling up a pic of a 994F).

Naw, someone find a Letoureau.

[Dirt Digger2]

you don't want to use a backhoe...they suck for going into heavy piles of dirt...same with wheel loaders...they work best on loose material like stone and mulch but have a hell of a time gaining traction on anything with weight to it

[bobcatexc]

We don't have that great of topsoil around here and grow grass in pure clay all the time, put the right amount of fertilzer and seed and it will grow, if its pond muck it should do pretty good growing grass as it will have alot of silt and vegetation in it.

If topsoil is like gold and its that important should have thought about that before burying it all.

I'd look for somewhere else on property to steal a little bit of topsoil or I would think of having a few loads trucked in to smear a few inchs of topsoil over the top would be cheaper than moving that pile 2 times.

[tallrick]

A track loader would definately be the way to go. More material in the bucket, more power, and you can figure out how to use it in a short time. Now I have moved quite a bit of dirt with a Bobcat 843 but it took a week to fill in an old drainage ditch and move a pile 100 feet away. If you are in nohurry and already owned a good size skid steer you could go for it. However, the boredom sets in fast and having more size and power would make it more enjoyable. Hopefully I will be building my new home in a rural part of Florida this year and will most likely use the Bobcat 863 instead of anything else. However, I am always looking for a nice dozer or track loader project too.

[CAT powered]

Well then in that case I'll finish the war before it starts.

Komatsu WA1200. Bucket capacity: 45.8 cubic yards. I win.

[wemfan]

you don't want to use a backhoe...they suck for going into heavy piles of dirt...same with wheel loaders...they work best on loose material like stone and mulch but have a hell of a time gaining traction on anything with weight to it


That makes sense.

[wemfan]

Well then in that case I'll finish the war before it starts.

Komatsu WA1200. Bucket capacity: 45.8 cubic yards. I win.

Can I rent one of these at my local rental shop? I think this is really what Ii need...

[CAT powered]

Hahaha. Yea. Just go down to your rental shop. They should have a few around back.

Some guys here would probably try to tow it behind their pickup trucks.

[stuvecorp]

We don't have that great of topsoil around here and grow grass in pure clay all the time, put the right amount of fertilzer and seed and it will grow, if its pond muck it should do pretty good growing grass as it will have alot of silt and vegetation in it.

If topsoil is like gold and its that important should have thought about that before burying it all.

I'd look for somewhere else on property to steal a little bit of topsoil or I would think of having a few loads trucked in to smear a few inchs of topsoil over the top would be cheaper than moving that pile 2 times.

We have planted in clay for lawns on a budget and they did okay, it's not optimal but would save money. Seed, fert. and mulch it with some marsh hay and it is probably fine. It's not going to be mowed like a lawn is it? Wildflowers would work too depending what you want.

[ARP]

Sorry Cat, couldn't pass it up. Largest wheel loader made, Letourneau L-2350. The bucket speaks for itself. (Thanks Stuve for helping me remember the name :drinkup:)

[ARP]

Haha, forgot the pic!

[wemfan]

We don't have that great of topsoil around here and grow grass in pure clay all the time, put the right amount of fertilzer and seed and it will grow, if its pond muck it should do pretty good growing grass as it will have alot of silt and vegetation in it.

The pond muck is just a small part of what we excavated with rest being clay. There are different varieties of clay and the stuff I have, according to a soil engineer, won't grow anything. It turns hard and is just not conducive to growing anything so I am going to cover it since he thinks I have to.

If topsoil is like gold and its that important should have thought about that before burying it all.

Ya think? :hammerhead: My wife has already informed me of this little fact a few times.

I'd look for somewhere else on property to steal a little bit of topsoil or I would think of having a few loads trucked in to smear a few inchs of topsoil over the top would be cheaper than moving that pile 2 times.

Trucking in topsoil is much more expensive than what I am going to do. Trucking in topsoil wouldn't be cost effective, at all. At least in my area.

[stuvecorp]

Haha, forgot the pic!

You deserve a tall glass of Cranberry goodness for that picture.Thumbs Up

[J. Peterson Grading]

Just hire someone that knows what they are doing.

J.

[wemfan]

We have planted in clay for lawns on a budget and they did okay, it's not optimal but would save money. Seed, fert. and mulch it with some marsh hay and it is probably fine. It's not going to be mowed like a lawn is it? Wildflowers would work too depending what you want.

Yes, it is going to be backyard that is mowed weekly. It has to grow grass as well as all of the other property around it so I am going to go after the topsoil laying under it. As Bob pointed out, I should have thought a little farther ahead....but I didn't...story of my life.

[stuvecorp]

Trucking in topsoil is much more expensive than what I am going to do. Trucking in topsoil wouldn't be cost effective, at all. At least in my area.

Some places here the black dirt is over a foot thick, if that is the case you could shape that overdig material and skim some black dirt to cover it with. That is easily skid work, so you can still get one.:)

[CAT powered]

I knew someone was gonna come up with that loader.

I couldn't think of the name either. Either way once you're past 40 yards a bucket that's pretty freakin big.

[wemfan]

Just hire someone that knows what they are doing.

J.

YOU SAYIN' I DON'T KNOW WHAT I AM DOING? :realmad:

Where would the fun be if I knew exactly what i was doing? It will all work out just fine no matter which way i go but thanks for the tip.:waving:

[wemfan]

Some places here the black dirt is over a foot thick, if that is the case you could shape that overdig material and skim some black dirt to cover it with. That is easily skid work, so you can still get one.:)

I am going to print your post and take it in the living room and show my wife. :) I want that damn skidsteer... besides she has been real suspicious of my plan. Now I have someone who agrees with me. Anybody else?

[Dirt Digger2]

nah do it yourself...its an easy job...you get to play with big equipment..and you'll have fun

just don't tear nothing up HAHA

and have fun filling a large machines fuel tank with 5gallon cans before you return it to the rental place..

[ARP]

Wemfan- I like the humor. It will do you (and everyone else) well. Welcome to the site btw if you haven't received a welcome yet.

Cat- you're right. Anything over 40 yards is big. I'll just have to content myself with my little <1 yard bucket and call it a day.

Stuve- I'm actually feeling like a little cranberry juice at the moment.... thanks!

[stuvecorp]

I am going to print your post and take it in the living room and show my wife. :) I want that damn skidsteer... besides she has been real suspicious of my plan. Now I have someone who agrees with me. Anybody else?

You saw the disclaimer in the corner? 'Not responsible for you having to sleep in the garage'

[wemfan]

nah do it yourself...its an easy job...you get to play with big equipment..and you'll have fun

just don't tear nothing up HAHA

and have fun filling a large machines fuel tank with 5gallon cans before you return it to the rental place..

Carting around diesel in plastic cans and operating equipment I don't know how to properly operate..... well...actually those are my skills!! I do those things quite often as well as tear things up. But that big pile of dirt and I are going to have a staring match for a while until I finally decide on a course of action.....then it is plastic cans and grinding gears until I fix it so good that I have to hire someone else to come and fix it...

[wemfan]

You saw the disclaimer in the corner? 'Not responsible for you having to sleep in the garage'

If I sleep in the garage with the skidsteer, I will be a happy camper!! :)

(she has to let me back in the house eventually.......right?)

[Dirt Digger2]

just for a little humor you could rent one of these babies too

http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll165/dirtdigger2/12-16-08001.jpg
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll165/dirtdigger2/10-26-08025.jpg

just push the dirt across your lot

[wemfan]

Wouldn't it be a blast to operate one of those for an afternoon?

[Dirt Digger2]

with luck i'll be getting some seat time here is a few months :drinkup:

[Bleed Green]

Are you just looking at buying the skid loader just for this dirt moving job?

[Scag48]

Seriously, the best machine for this job is easily a wheel loader. There is zero advantage to running a track loader in this application, the ground speed would absolutely kill. If you're only moving the material 200 yards, just get a wheel loader and run it over to the dump location. A backhoe would work as well, but it would take quite a bit longer. Don't worry about traction with a wheeled machine vs. a trackloader, the ground conditions are adequate and the material having been piled will be easy for an amateur operator to fill the bucket after a little practice with the machine. A week of rental with a Cat 938 or similar size wheel loader will have it finished. It would cost 1/3 the price to rent the right machine for the job instead of buying a skid steer that would require maintenance and the like.

[Bleed Green]

unless you have other work to do with the skid steer then maybe you would buy one but there is no way that I would buy one just for this job.

[wemfan]

unless you have other work to do with the skid steer then maybe you would buy one but there is no way that I would buy one just for this job.

I am a builder so having a skidsteer would come in handy on projects I do. Also, I will be building the house over the next several months and dirt will have to be moved around many times. There is always a lot of straightening up on a construction site. I can use it for cleanup. It would be a help over the whole process, however, I am not sure how much I will be building in the furure due to the current economy. The skidsteer would come in handy on the 10 acres for a while. I am thinking it over....

[wemfan]

Seriously, the best machine for this job is easily a wheel loader. There is zero advantage to running a track loader in this application, the ground speed would absolutely kill. If you're only moving the material 200 yards, just get a wheel loader and run it over to the dump location. A backhoe would work as well, but it would take quite a bit longer. Don't worry about traction with a wheeled machine vs. a trackloader, the ground conditions are adequate and the material having been piled will be easy for an amateur operator to fill the bucket after a little practice with the machine. A week of rental with a Cat 938 or similar size wheel loader will have it finished. It would cost 1/3 the price to rent the right machine for the job instead of buying a skid steer that would require maintenance and the like.

I think I will rent a loader and do it myself. That seems to make the most sense. How about scraping off the topsoil. Will a wheel loader have enough traction to do that well?

[Scag48]

I think I will rent a loader and do it myself. That seems to make the most sense. How about scraping off the topsoil. Will a wheel loader have enough traction to do that well?

A track loader would be better for getting into virgin soil vs. a wheel loader. Traction is the key advantage when you're hammering into bank material. However, the wheel loader would be the best solution for moving the piled material and COULD be used to strip topsoil but it isn't the best choice for that in particular.

[stuvecorp]

I am a builder so having a skidsteer would come in handy on projects I do. Also, I will be building the house over the next several months and dirt will have to be moved around many times. There is always a lot of straightening up on a construction site. I can use it for cleanup. It would be a help over the whole process, however, I am not sure how much I will be building in the furure due to the current economy. The skidsteer would come in handy on the 10 acres for a while. I am thinking it over....

I never want to rain on a parade but builders shouldn't have skids. They seem to mess stuff up(at least here). One of my pet peeves is the builder 'grading' and spreading the black dirt, then I have to explain to the homeowner why they have to pay me to fix it which doesn't usually end well. Another thing with skids, it comes down to attachments you have and things can snowball quick. How do you move it becomes another part? With the way the economy is there is a lot of builders shedding equipment which will make my life much better in the coming years.

They can make things easier for you and if you could get a package deal for one it helps on the cost. You can strip black dirt with a wheel loader, have done it a fair amount. It took me a little while to do it productively. I would say stay away from a crawler loader(sorry Digger), the wheel loader is easiest to run I think.

[Scag48]

I'm with Stuve, builders having equipment is irritating. Haha. I'm sorry but I feel the same way about it. Unless they are doing 100% of their dirt work, which some do, there is no need for a building contractor to have any equipment. They just end up making a mess for the landscapers and boy have I seen that carnage. We've been screwed over in the past by the excavation guys that do it every day, it only gets worse when you run into a GC with some equipment who thinks he knows what he's doing.

[Junior M]

Hahaha. Yea. Just go down to your rental shop. They should have a few around back.

Some guys here would probably try to tow it behind their pickup trucks.

dont forget the half inch nylon strap to tie it down! :laugh:

[AWJ Services]

The reality is a Trackloader and a old Tandem dump will be your most efficient cheapest solution.A good 953 in my area can be had for 50k.They will make short work of the project.
The problem will be getting rid of the Trackloader when your done.

The best solution although slower will be to buy a Big CTL like a Tak TL150 and a dump truck.
I have dealt with this muck dug out of ponds before and good luck with a wheel loader of any sorts unless the soil has been sitting for a couple of years.
I also will pont out that the wet clay will not spread easily.You will need to spread it and let it drain some.

Here in Georgia we have no topsoil.That is what they make Fertilizer for.

[KTM]

I have done many jobs like this with my wheel loader, Just make sure you rent one with teeth, and I would get one with about a 3yrd bucket, and if the moisture is right in the ground and it is not to hard pan the loader will strip the topsoil with no problem, Oh and by the way I am a builder with equipment, I have been doing my own dirt work (besides digging the basements and sewers) now for 12 years .

[AWJ Services]

Make sure you take pics when the wheel loader gets stuck in the muck piles.:)

[ksss]

Wheel loaders are not helpless even in wet material. Everything out here is done with a wheel loader. The track loader is an East coast habit, I have never seen one working here, other than muni landfills. Moving out that material even wet will be no problem. If you wanted to strip topsoil, its done all the time here. If you wanted to strip topsoil out of a slew with water in it, get an excavator.

Amazing we get this much material out of such simple questions.

[AWJ Services]

I agree KSSS.Many different solutions for the same problem.

I will add that I have seen the mess many times that the wet muck leaves on the ground underneath the piles.Almost bottomless mud pits.
Of course if the dirt was barely wet then no problem.

I still think it will take forever to carry the soil one bucket at a time with any loader.

[tallrick]

Why is there so much hate of track loaders? They are slower than a wheel loader but a lot easier to dig and grade with. Probably easier for someone to operate because it has a steering wheel, but for someone looking for a skid steer a track loader may be a better fit. Around here it is rocky so wheel loaders are common. However, put one in everglades muck or marl and see something really get stuck.

[tractorcat]

Wemfan, You can easily work the spoils you have with a good skidloader. You've got +/- 2800 yards in your first example and +/-800 yards in your second pile based on your math. A skilled operator can easily work 500 yards a day with an S250 Bobcat. Very versatile machine and easier to own than a trackloader. Both have advantages over the other clearly, but if your thinking of owning a versitlie machine on ten acres the skidsteer is the way to go. You can purchase add ons for your skidstar that would make it very usefull to you in the long run; Metal tracks, augers, tillers, trencher, etc. To answer your question on capacity or load times it depends on machine size but in general the bucket on average is 72" wide with a heaped capacity of about 1/3rd of a yard in a construction bucket. So three buckets to the yard more or less and with the S250 you can load a big tandem truck flat footed without building a ramp to assist.
I'm a little biased becouse I've owned about 6 different skids and currently have three bobcats; two S250's and a S185. Big Iron is great fun if you can keep it busy but it's expensive, the compact track loaders are also an option but the rubber tired loader and a set of tracks can't be beat in my opinion becouse of the adaptability of them.

[AWJ Services]

Wemfan, You can easily work the spoils you have with a good skidloader. You've got +/- 2800 yards in your first example and +/-800 yards in your second pile based on your math. A skilled operator can easily work 500 yards a day with an S250 Bobcat. Very versatile machine and easier to own than a trackloader. Both have advantages over the other clearly, but if your thinking of owning a versitlie machine on ten acres the skidsteer is the way to go. You can purchase add ons for your skidstar that would make it very usefull to you in the long run; Metal tracks, augers, tillers, trencher, etc. To answer your question on capacity or load times it depends on machine size but in general the bucket on average is 72" wide with a heaped capacity of about 1/3rd of a yard in a construction bucket. So three buckets to the yard more or less and with the S250 you can load a big tandem truck flat footed without building a ramp to assist.
I'm a little biased becouse I've owned about 6 different skids and currently have three bobcats; two S250's and a S185. Big Iron is great fun if you can keep it busy but it's expensive, the compact track loaders are also an option but the rubber tired loader and a set of tracks can't be beat in my opinion becouse of the adaptability of them.

Good post.

Welcome aboard.

[Gravel Rat]

If that job was here a excavator and dump truck would be used. A 160 sized excavator with a clean up bucket. Crawl up on top of the pile and start loading the truck. One guy in the excavator one guy in the truck you could have two trucks. As long as the ground is hard keep in mind a loaded dump truck will find the soft spots.

As for a fullsize trackloader do you guys still work in the stone age :laugh:

A rubber tired hoe would have troubles with that material. A wheel loader with a square front bucket would also have trouble.

I don't see the point in moving the material stripping off the topsoil spreading that clay muck around then put the topsoil back. Find a big hole or a low spot to fill with it and leave it. Eventually it will harden up and be okay.

With that much material move it once and forget about it. If its clayish based dirt once it gets wet you have one h*ll of a mess dealing with slippery snot.

Like I said find a lowspot in the yard or find somebody that needs some fill and get rid of it. A skid steer could do the job but it will take you for hours.

[stuvecorp]

I didn't mean all builder's are helpless with equipment. I know it is cool to have and if you can use it enough then get one. It may come down to time vs money. A 440 with steel tracks would be fine and give you the most 'bang for the buck'.

I will be honest I have no love for a crawler loader or tractor loader backhoe and at this point can't ever see wanting one. For how I do things the skid and excavator work and maximize my investment. A wheel loader would be the next 'need', it can be used year round here. Running a wheel loader is fun, especially with air and tunes.

[Scag48]

I don't understand why everyone is saying a wheel loader is going to have trouble with that material, makes me wonder if those who say it will have ever run a wheel loader. I suppose I don't see the issue, it's loose, stacked material, there would be zero problems getting that moved.

I would agree that an excavator and dump truck would handle most efficiently, but lets keep in mind the guy is a novice operator and learning a hoe overnight isn't possible to the point of loading a truck and being productive running the hoe. I also agree that a track loader would be better suited for stripping the topsoil, but it can be done with a wheel loader. I do no recommend carting this material 200 yards with a track loader, you'd fall asleep halfway there.

With all that said, the cheapest option to move this dirt 200 yards away is to get a wheel loader and cart it over. No trucks involved is the best plan of action for someone who is just learning to run equipment, especially when they're paying for the use of the truck. Loaders are fairly simple to operate, he won't need to know any advanced operating techniques to get this job done. Even a beginner operator can be somewhat productive in a loader which is important if you're paying to rent a piece of equipment, don't want to be wasting your time on it otherwise you'd be better of hiring someone to do it for you.

In my eyes, buying a machine to move this dirt doesn't make much sense unless you really have a purpose for the machine afterwords. The market being the way it is, you could probably buy a machine and resell it after the project for what you have into it, assuming you didn't have a failure of componentry along the way. Just doesn't make sense to spend 2-3 times what it would cost to rent a wheel loader for a week to move this dirt.

[Dirt Digger2]

i've run wheel loaders and all kinds of trackloaders in the 953 size...

a trackloader will blow away a wheel loader any day of the week on that job...Scag trackloaders of today are not like their dinosaur counterparts like the 955's of the world...i think you should get behind the controls of one before you say how a wheel loader would do better then it

[Scag48]

So a track loader is going to move all that dirt, unassisted, 200 yards faster than a wheel loader? Doubtful. Can it do it? Absolutely. Most cost effective machine? Not at all. I understand where a track loader would have its advantages, but there isn't any for this job. Track loader isn't going to fill the bucket any faster and it sure isn't going to carry the material any faster, it'll burn more fuel and will probably be more expensive to rent. I guess I'd have to ask where your logic is coming from. Not trying to pick a fight here, but seriously, I don't know how a trackloader would do it any better. I'm not arguing against trackloaders in general, I'm just trying to figure out what the advantage of having a track machine on that job would be because I am not seeing it.

[Dirt Digger2]

So a track loader is going to move all that dirt, unassisted, 200 yards faster than a wheel loader?

yup:weightlifter:

[Scag48]

Have you had too many beers in anticipation of graduation buddy? :drinkup::laugh:

[CAT powered]

Kaiser I've never seen a track loader except the odd one at the auction yard and they're pretty rare.

You guys severely underestimate what wheel loaders can do. I run mine all over the place constantly. I can't think of any job I've done where I've thought "Boy this job would be easier if this loader had tracks"

As long as you have a good tooth bucket and a competent operator you will have no issues digging into material regardless of how long it's been there. The operator is what's holding back the loader if you don't think it could operate in conditions like those.

That being said: I've never felt a need to have a track loader so I've never run a track loader. While I'm sure they have their uses they just aren't for me.

[Scag48]

Give me a 966F or give me death! :cool2:

[stuvecorp]

Give me a 966F or give me death! :cool2:

No, No Scag - it's 821 or death.:weightlifter:

[Scag48]

You Power Tan lunatics are trying to convince these poor people that EVERYTHING Power Tan is good. I will give you backhoes, skid steers, and I'm 50/50 on the excavators. Wheel loaders not so much. :laugh:

In all honesty, Deere kicks all of their asses. 744H is my favorite loader, followed closely the 966FII.

[Duffster]

No, No Scag - it's 844 or death.:weightlifter:

Fixed it for you:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Junior M]

screw all this trackloader and wheel loader garbage, get a Bobcat and get twice the amount of work done.. :rolleyes: :laugh:

[stuvecorp]

You Power Tan lunatics are trying to convince these poor people that EVERYTHING Power Tan is good. I will give you backhoes, skid steers, and I'm 50/50 on the excavators. Wheel loaders not so much. :laugh:

In all honesty, Deere kicks all of their asses. 744H is my favorite loader, followed closely the 966FII.

821 down, Case has nothing to be ashamed of. Their loaders are very under appreciated

[CAT powered]

Note how Bobcrap doesn't make a REAL loader.

Perhaps because people who run the big iron know that GOD HATES BOBCAT.

[Junior M]

Note how Bobcrap doesn't make a REAL loader.

Perhaps because people who run the big iron know that GOD HATES BOBCAT.
:laugh: :laugh:

I know, I was just screwin with yall.. Just wanted to add some heat this fire.. :laugh:

[AWJ Services]

wheel loader getting er done in the mud.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xrBda-V7IQ

[AMCAT]

Perhaps one of these machines would git er dun :)

http://www.vincelewis.net/diggers.html

[SiteSolutions]

How else would you do it, Bob? The clay won't grow anything and the topsoil is under the clay so.... I am open to suggestions. Know another way to get that topsoil on top?

Get some soil improvements (organic material and fertilizer) and a tiller for your tractor. Spread the goodness over the berm. Till the goodness into the berm. Sow some grass seed. Done.

[AWJ Services]

Perhaps one of these machines would git er dun

It could reach the whole lot.Never have to move.

[ksss]

You Power Tan lunatics are trying to convince these poor people that EVERYTHING Power Tan is good. I will give you backhoes, skid steers, and I'm 50/50 on the excavators. Wheel loaders not so much. :laugh:

In all honesty, Deere kicks all of their asses. 744H is my favorite loader, followed closely the 966FII.

CASE builds a good wheel loader. They are built about 70 miles from the Bobcat plant so they have too be good right! They are a popular wheel loader. My only issue with the D series is I thought they used a lot of fuel. Talking with a CAT freak friend of mine, his CATs do as well. He ran a CASE D series and said he would have no problem owning one. The E series is supposed to be better on fuel.

Not everything Power Tan is the best. The motor grader is a work in progress. The Tier 3 requirements caused a problem. I think they are getting on top of it. Oh a CASE back hoe attachment I had was a POS. I think that is about it for let downs in the Power Tan line Scag!:drinkup:

[KTM]

I have a 721B with ride control, if that ground is some what smooth You could move the material at 10-12 mph easy, if the ground is firm under the pile you would never get stuck

[ksss]

It would seem to me that a wheel loader would move the material much faster than a track loader. Hauling ass with a track loader would seem to cause excessive wear. However I have never run one so hard for me to say, but it would seem like the only place a track loader would be better is in real wet material or maybe some demo projects. A job like this is made for a wheel loader. However, given the other uses for a skid steer by the home owner, I would get a 90/95XT with ride control and an 84" bucket and knock it out as you have time. Put the wheel loader rental toward the skid steer purchase. If time is an issue than get the wheel loader.

[Duffster]

It would seem to me that a wheel loader would move the material much faster than a track loader. Hauling ass with a track loader would seem to cause excessive wear. However I have never run one so hard for me to say, but it would seem like the only place a track loader would be better is in real wet material or maybe some demo projects. A job like this is made for a wheel loader. However, given the other uses for a skid steer by the home owner, I would get a JD 332 with ride control and an 84" bucket and knock it out as you have time. Put the wheel loader rental toward the skid steer purchase. If time is an issue than get the wheel loader.

I would do what Ksss said but I fixed it LOL

[dozerman21]

I am a big fan of highlifts (track loaders for you western boys), but I wouldn't use one for this job unless it's to load trucks. To bucket that much dirt that far would take too long. A wheel loader shoudn't have any problems going through those piles, but a wheel loader or highlift is going to cost you more to rent, and I'm assuming you don't have equipment to move it, so add on transport fees too.

I would go with a large skid or CTL. I'd hire a dump truck at least for the piles that had to be moved a long way. Get a loader with 2 speed for sure if you don't hire a truck. Again, it will take forever to bucket it that far, but if you don't have time restraints it might not matter.

If you plan on buying a skid to to the job... start another thread!:laugh: You will get one or two opinions on which brand you should get.:usflag:

[ksss]

I would do what Ksss said but I fixed it LOL


I have been hijacked!!

[Junior M]

I have been hijacked!!
and we should care because? ;) :laugh:

[ksss]

and we should care because? ;) :laugh:


Ah, because I would not suggest a Deere.

[Junior M]

Ah, because I would not suggest a Deere.
good point, who wants a Deere anyways? :laugh:

[Gravel Rat]

Put a flyer up in the local highschool job board saying you need some help moving dirt and say tools supplied. Have a couple wheel barrows and shovels waiting for them :laugh:

The last time a trackloader was used on a job in my area would be the 1980s probably 82 at the latest.

Wheel loaders are not used either the only time you see a wheel loader is in a gravel pit. For residential jobs a rubber tired hoe does just fine.

I have moved 1000 yards or more of topsoil with a rubber tired backhoe on one job. Definatly need a radio for some music.

Any size loader could do this job smaller the machine longer its going to take.

If you don't want this material put a sign up somewhere that says free fill you pay the trucking.

[crab]

case makes front end loaders?who would have thunk it!

[riverwalklandscaping]

I'm sorry but the little toys people have put up pictures of just wont do. For your job you need this: (sarcasm)http://www.teberia.pl/zdjecia/4500/4494.jpg

[CAT powered]

Yup. Definitely need a bucket wheel. Just be careful when you get that D8 near it.

What's wrong with this picture?

[Junior M]

I've seen that before, I bet that guy crapped his pants.. :eek:

[Bleed Green]

what guy LOL i dont see what you guys are talking about. what is wrong with the second picture?

[CAT powered]

When you see it you're going to kick yourself.

Look top center of the picture. At the top of the bucket wheel.

[dozerman21]

Yup. Definitely need a bucket wheel. Just be careful when you get that D8 near it.

What's wrong with this picture?

I think somebody didn't pay attention and ran the red light! Hope it was parked with nobody around it.:eek:

[Bleed Green]

OH....WOW I was looking for a guy not a dozer. LOL

[Junior M]

OH....WOW I was looking for a guy not a dozer. LOL
:laugh: :laugh::laugh:

I was refering to the guy in the dozer..

[riverwalklandscaping]

if there was a guy in it, I don't think it matters if he crapped his pants or not because he would have all been in the same few cubic inches