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TRabic
04-27-2009, 04:06 PM
My name is Tom Rabic. I am the soon to be former Malibu Lighting Product Manager at Intermatic, Inc.

Recently Intermatic has made the decision to exit the low voltage landscape lighting fixture business.

We are currently offering approximately 70 lighting products at excellent prices.

Please visit the Intermatic web site at the following link to review the current list.

http://www.intermatic.com/Malibu%20Opportunity%20Buys.aspx

Once on the site, there is a link to an order form for customers without an existing account, that will guide you through the order process.

This list will continue to be updated as needed over the next few months, so please check back occasionally.

I hope your business can benefit from this unprecedented opportunity.

Respectfully,

Tom Rabic
Malibu Product Manager
Intermatic, Inc

BrandonV
04-27-2009, 04:11 PM
I hope you credit card has room James, I know you'll be stocking up!

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
04-27-2009, 04:23 PM
:)

Sheesh, what the heck are we all gonna do now? I mean really! Malibu, next Noma Moonrays, soon that pyramid stuff... This is the stuff that I used to propel my business! After all, once the clients had either bought, had installed or seen their neighbours with this stuff, it made selling custom & pro-grade a cinch!

It is curious to note that no transformers are on the list. What are they doing with all of those 60, 80 & 120 watt, inappropriately listed, no secondary protection, plastic encapsulated black transformers?

TXNSLighting
04-27-2009, 04:28 PM
O no!!! What will we all do now?! Celebrate thats what! Im surprised this didnt happen sooner. Lets hope its gone for good.

TRabic
04-27-2009, 04:50 PM
Gentlemen,
There are even fixtures on this list for discrimminating folks like yourselves.
Check out the cast metal 35 watt floods for $3.15 each.
Tom

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
04-27-2009, 05:17 PM
Thank you for the head's-up Tom.

No offense intended, but those fixtures are absolutely the lowest quality crapola on the market. I have handled the product at big box stores... we all have! The "Metal" (exactly what metal are we talking about here?) is insanely thin and breaks with the slightest impact. The "shroud" is a tab in slot design that generally does not fit too well and the shrouds loosen off easily. The 'ground stakes' are a joke, as are the knuckles. Glare control is virtually non existant.

You can not seriously begin to compare this product to even the cheapest SE Asian knock off fixtures. We know it and I am sure you do too.

Has anyone ever seen a Malibu lighting system that is more than 1 year old that is complete and functioning properly? I thought not.

TRabic
04-27-2009, 06:44 PM
James,
This is the part where I'm supposed to say "no offense taken"?
Ok, no offense taken.
We have been your competitor, indirectly for years, and I think I understand where you are coming from.
Your assessment and comparisons are a little over the top, but I still maintain that there are some very attractive values on this list for those that need an edge in this economy.

Tom

Alan B
04-27-2009, 10:37 PM
Tom,

I am sorry to hear that about Malibu and your position at the company, its quite shocking, actually. It is a serious concern to be seeing these types of changes occurring on both the professional and consumer side of the industry. We would all like to see growth as a rising tide lifts all boats. I wish you and your family well.

Sincerely,

Alan

Pro-Scapes
04-27-2009, 11:35 PM
They got pierce points... Quick someone call Mike M and let him know.

GreenLight
04-28-2009, 01:17 AM
This guy comes in here humble with hat in hand, admitting the end to his position and malibu's exit to the business and for the most part has been torn down and lectured about how bad his product is. Granted, most lighting professionals wouldn't claim to use Malibu, it still doesn't justify tearing someone down to prove a point.

BrandonV
04-28-2009, 07:27 AM
I'm personally shocked, around here the home stores are loaded with malibu product. I'm sure Tom can't discuss it too much but did someone move in and cut them out of the box store market? I must say the prices are impressive.

David Gretzmier
04-28-2009, 08:02 AM
Tom, sorry about the reception here and hope you and your family land somewhere in this economy. You might give Alan a call over at landscape lighting world or pm griffin here. They are a sponsor here, and they are just starting out in the landscape lighting biz and have what looks to be great products for the landscape lighting pro.

I will say this, sadly, that the unavailability of Malibu par 36 bulbs at Lowes and Home Depot will hurt hundreds of thousands of Homeowners that buy those for malibu and other ( read Nightscaping ) fixtures. Without you guys selling and ordering millions from bulb manu's, those bulbs are gonna disappear or double in price. I met one such customer last night. The LV wire you sell is also just as good ( except maybe super flex) as we all use every day.

And Intermatic makes awesome digital timers and photocells that all of us use and maintain.

Good Luck to you.

kansashoosier
04-28-2009, 09:11 AM
It is a little disturbing that some people can "celebrate" the loss of jobs and incredible negative impact this closing will have on numerous families associated with Malibu. I didn't use the product, but give the guy a break. Some of you guys should have your livelihood ripped from you and try and go find a job in this economy.

jnewton
04-28-2009, 09:57 AM
No one is celebrating the loss of this man's job, or anyone else's job, or the effect of this on anyone's family. The posters above are simply expressing their opinions about the perceived quality of the Malibu product. Lighten up, Francis.

TRabic
04-28-2009, 10:39 AM
Thank you Alan.

To Greenlights last point; I know that there are many homeowners out there that would love to have a professional install "commercial" grade lights, but it is just not within their budget.
It is those customers that Malibu has, for the most part, successfully served for many years, while also competing in a very demanding retail environment.
Tom

TRabic
04-28-2009, 10:51 AM
Thank you for your good wishes David.
There may be a minor and temporary hole in the the market, but I will not be too surprised if it gets filled it rather quickly.
Our industrial division remains in tact, and we do have many excellent products on that side of the business.

kansashoosier
04-28-2009, 11:16 AM
jnewton,

When people "celebrate" (exact word used in a previous post) the demise of a product line, no matter what the perceived quality, that is exactly what they are doing, especially a product so wide spread. If that poster would have celebrated Nightscaping's temporary (and maybe permanent) demise, would your reaction have been the same. I don't like Saturns, I think they are poor quality automobiles, but I won't be celebrating if they get the hammer. So no, living in a state where job's are at a premium and fading fast, I won't lighten up.

JoeyD
04-28-2009, 12:39 PM
This is something I never expected to see......Good Luck TRabic.

NiteTymeIlluminations
04-28-2009, 02:20 PM
I agree with green, DG and kansas. Some of those posts were way out of line!!! Good luck Mr. Rabic. Thanks for the post.

TRabic
04-28-2009, 03:12 PM
Thank you JoeyD and NTI.

Lite4
04-28-2009, 04:11 PM
My name is Tom Rabic. I am the soon to be former Malibu Lighting Product Manager at Intermatic, Inc.

Recently Intermatic has made the decision to exit the low voltage landscape lighting fixture business.

We are currently offering approximately 70 lighting products at excellent prices.

Please visit the Intermatic web site at the following link to review the current list.

http://www.intermatic.com/Malibu%20Opportunity%20Buys.aspx

Once on the site, there is a link to an order form for customers without an existing account, that will guide you through the order process.

This list will continue to be updated as needed over the next few months, so please check back occasionally.

I hope your business can benefit from this unprecedented opportunity.

Respectfully,

Tom Rabic
Malibu Product Manager
Intermatic, Inc


Tom,

Sorry to hear you will have to be looking for other means of income. These times are tough for a lot of people and changes are having to be made all around. Unfortunately I can't say I am sorry to hear Malibu exiting the stage but I am sure some other product will jump in a take their place. I know they were trying to offer a cheap product to the market place, but in reality they have actually done far more harm to the legitimate low voltage lighting industry than good.

The following remarks are primarily targeted towards Hampton Bay and Malibu products, the LOWES vs. HOME DEPOT brands.

They have provided product without education to the general masses. Any legitimate lighting guy knows that simply telling a customer all they have to do is daisy chain their lights with some pierce point connectors and they will have a winning system is not only erronious but downright deceptive. All in the name of making a quick, cheap buck. I have suspected for years that these "lights" and "transformers" were knowingly designed and constructed to be installed this way so that in 2-4 years the manufacturer could expect that same customer to come back and purchase replacement fixtures, more wire and more transformers because of the pre-planned and projected product failure. This seems to be the case as I always have to tear out this junk, throw it away, and completely re-educate clients who have been sold these false bill of goods.

Every day, we in the lighting industry have to battle with our customers over the perceived value of the products we install and the specialty work that we do. This is a direct result of them walking into one of these stores and seeing some annodized pot metal fixture priced at a mere 35 bucks, adding up how many we specified into their job and then doing the multiplication in their head to figuire up what he "perceives" he should be paying for the "solid metal" fixtures. Now, in reality it really doesn't take to much to overcome these objections about product quality. Simply place a solid brass fixture in their hand along with the "metal" fixture from one of these others and the differences in actual quality become clear right away.

The biggest thing we have to overcome is the psychological stigma of low voltage lighting being junk because, "well bubba, he had some at his house and he was always replacing light bulbs and they were dim and the fixtures didn't last very long so I should probably install some line voltage lights since they won't give me all these problems". When in reality, Bubba was told he could do it himself so easily, and with all his shiny new fixtures in tow he goes home and pieces his lights together only to start encountering problems within months, because no one ever told him, "Hey Bubba, you shouldn't use those pierce points. They are just going to let water get into the copper wire and corrode your system from the inside out!" or "Hey Bubba, Didn't anyone ever tell you to make sure you have 10.8-11.5 volts at all your halogen lamps or you'll be fighting burnouts and dim bulbs, oh they didn't tell you that, well why not?!"

Literally millions of people across this country and abroad have been duped into falling for these cheap, gimmicky fixtures and brainwashed into believing that they are every bit as good as what the pros use only cheaper and you don't have to pay for professonial installation fees when "WE" will show "YOU" how to do it yourself. (and then we will collect more money from you in a few years again!)

Sorry Tom, but hopefully you will realize the problems these types of products cause for those of us who are truly passionate about this profession and industry.

Lite4
04-28-2009, 04:13 PM
It is a little disturbing that some people can "celebrate" the loss of jobs and incredible negative impact this closing will have on numerous families associated with Malibu. I didn't use the product, but give the guy a break. Some of you guys should have your livelihood ripped from you and try and go find a job in this economy.



I did......... And it took me moving clear across country to find another one right in your backyard.

TXNSLighting
04-28-2009, 04:31 PM
By celebrate i meant for the product being gone, not the guy being out of a job. Im very sure he'll get more work with a better product. Geeezzz, not the smartest people on this site...

TRabic
04-28-2009, 05:00 PM
Tim,

Although we are coming at it from different angles, I am with you on the education piece. That has always been one of our biggest challenges.
The more the customer understands the value proposition, including the product quality, labor and/or maintenance side of the equation, the better the odds that they will make the decision that best suits their needs.

Tom

Lite4
04-28-2009, 05:11 PM
Tim,

Although we are coming at it from different angles, I am with you on the education piece. That has always been one of our biggest challenges.
The more the customer understands the value proposition, including the product quality, labor and/or maintenance side of the equation, the better the odds that they will make the decision that best suits their needs.

Tom

Agreed, Thanks Tom. I truly wish you and your family well on your future endeavours.

irrig8r
04-28-2009, 07:34 PM
Tom, at what point did Intermatic start making so much Malibu product line offshore? I remember Toro jumping into the retail DIY lighting market in the mid to late 80's, and then in the 90's a lot of other offshore product flooding the shelves from Home Depot to Ace Hardware stores and OSH.

Malibu made the first LV system I ever worked on, around my grandfather's fish pond in the late 70's. Plastic stems and metal hats that twisted on.

I actually installed dozens of your ribbed metal uplights at a couple houses my brother was fixing up and "flipping" up above Sunset Blvd. in the Hollywood Hills on a tight budget maybe 10 years ago.

They weren't my first choice, and I insisted on FX transformers for those jobs, but the lights did the trick for making some tropical looking foliage come to life at night and helped make the sales.

I wish you well.

steveparrott
04-28-2009, 07:47 PM
Tom, I'll add my best wishes to you. I never had a problem with the existance of Malibu and understood its place in the DIY market.

I am concerned about manufacturers who make poor quality fixtures and try to pass them off as professional products. And about contractors that set their standards too low.

NightLightingFX
04-28-2009, 08:21 PM
I would like to throw in my input on this topic. While I am no fan of the Malibu stuff - cheap fixtures, pierce point connectors and crappy transformers. I disagree with you guys on blaming cheap outdoor lighting from big box stores as giving outdoor lighting a bad name. When I come in and show someone what REAL artistic outdoor lighting is all about. It distinguishes me as an expert, and my customers easily see the difference between professional outdoor lighting vs. cheap Home Depot stuff.

If someone thinks the runway effect with plastic path lights is attractive, who am I to be upset with what they have done. The bottom line is people know - "you get what you pay for." (When other professionals and people see what I do one of the first things they say is "WOW! I know this isn't cheap.) As outdoor professionals we need to inform high end home owners what quality outdoor lighting can do for them. Don't blame Malibu because high end home owners don't know about us. It is our job as "Specialist"/"Businessmen" to network with the high end contractors and etc to promote our craft in our area. (As far as I am concerned the cheap stuff has helped create a niche for quality outdoor lighting professionals. If the cheap stuff wasn't around there would probably be less demand for any kind of outdoor lighting)

Lets face it most of the people who buy the Home Depot stuff is "Do it Yourselfers" they aren't in our market anyway. I will admit that a lot of ignorant landscapers will buy the crap Malibu stuff, and I will also admit that doesn't help our cause much. But on the other hand, you all know when you see a Malibu system installed with a daisy chain that extends over 75ft on a single tap crap transformer. It isn't hard to impress your prospective client the advantages of using a professional.

Mike G said something to this nature ealier, "When someone is doing yard improvements they usually don't have much money left over for lighting. Let them get started with the cheap crap. Once they get fed up with it, they will be willing to pay a premium on quality outdoor lighting."

What if, who ever steps in and fills Malibu's void. Lets say they promote the hub system, multi tap transformers, water tight connectors and etc. And they become very successfull and all the hack landscapers now use the hub and multi tap transformers and etc. Will that improve the business or increase competition for professionals like use who specialize in outdoor lighting.

I have no BEEF with Malibu, in fact their product makes me look like a STAR! I appreciate Tom sharing that info with us, and best of luck to you Tom.
~Ned

kansashoosier
04-28-2009, 08:41 PM
I'm an electrician, so education is something I value greatly in terms of doing a job properly. That being said, Malibu's lack of education to me is no different than a lot of the distributors and manufacturers who sell over the internet to any and all at contractor pricing, both in the low and high voltage world, with little to no concern about who is installing it or how they are installing it, and only to "make a buck". Some of the more respected posters on this sight have been on DIY shows. Who do you think primarily watches those shows? People who want to do it themselves. How much education are they getting across in a 5 minute segment on a home improvement show, but they sure as heck want their name to be seen or heard on that show.
When they see a lighting contractor put a strainer on top of a pole on top of lamp, don't you think that gives them all kinds of unsafe ideas because they saw someone on TV do it. Malibu isn't the only one who put out a low grade product and didn't educate as much as you would like. To overcome that, you have to know how to sell, educate, and install, and if a contractor can't do that, perhaps another line of work is in order.

David Gretzmier
04-28-2009, 11:51 PM
malibu sold what sells at x price. they sold what most folks at big box would pay, max, for a premium light- thier copper spot. Yes, we start above that and go up. Yes, there are millions of malibu systems out there, and probably only a few hundred thousand pro-systems. the masses have thier opinion of landscape lighting on the bulk of what they see.

none of that is toms fault. but he is here initially to sell off closeout malibu fixtures, so I guess a little bit of malibu bashing is to be expected. but then you guys bash some pro quality stuff too on other threads. myself included.

Good luck again tom.

TRabic
04-29-2009, 12:05 PM
David, Kansas, Ned, Steve,
Excellent perspectives.
In general, there is a "Pro" customer, and a DIY customer.
And although both sides, (Installers and Retailers), try to attract crossovers, I see a formidable chasm between the two customers.
Perhaps our best Marketing efforts only serve to help them confirm which group they fall into.
There is still a large untapped customer base out there on both sides.
Our industry's job is to "sell the dream", and to quote Alan's earlier comment; Let the rising tide raise all boats".
Gregg, I joined the company in the late 90's, off site, so I'm not the best person to answer the off shore question.
I think the metal fixture that you are referring to is our "work horse" CL507, MR16 flood. It is amazing how many of those we have sold through the years.
I do want to say thanks again for all the well wishes.
By the way; did I mention that we have fixtures for sell?:-).
Tom

mellow-mower
04-29-2009, 05:00 PM
How many noticed he did not say he was losing his job but going to be the former product manager? Does this mean you are moving to another section of the company and giving one last effort to get the fixtures out of inventory?

TRabic
04-29-2009, 05:09 PM
I am losing my job. (That hurt mellow-mower.) ;-)

Lite4
04-29-2009, 05:54 PM
I'm an electrician, so education is something I value greatly in terms of doing a job properly. That being said, Malibu's lack of education to me is no different than a lot of the distributors and manufacturers who sell over the internet to any and all at contractor pricing, both in the low and high voltage world, with little to no concern about who is installing it or how they are installing it, and only to "make a buck". Some of the more respected posters on this sight have been on DIY shows. Who do you think primarily watches those shows? People who want to do it themselves. How much education are they getting across in a 5 minute segment on a home improvement show, but they sure as heck want their name to be seen or heard on that show.
When they see a lighting contractor put a strainer on top of a pole on top of lamp, don't you think that gives them all kinds of unsafe ideas because they saw someone on TV do it. Malibu isn't the only one who put out a low grade product and didn't educate as much as you would like. To overcome that, you have to know how to sell, educate, and install, and if a contractor can't do that, perhaps another line of work is in order.


Hey bud, I wouldn't be knocking Tommy around here. That guy is incredibly innovative in the field of lighting. There is a reason he was asked to be on a major network program like Yard Crashers. You may want to brush up on some of the older threads Tommy wrote about some of the personal mental struggles he had over the very issues you brought up. It is the DIY network which is definitely not what we do, but he is hoping to bring new creative thought to some watching, (more than your typical runway lights and spot lights on trees), even in a small way, anyway he can. Obviously as Tom mentioned, some people are just going to be DIYers. Also, are you honestly going to tell me that you wouldn't go on a national show if you were invited?

irrig8r
04-29-2009, 07:04 PM
Tom, don't know if you heard, or whether it would be a good fit or even too risky... Loran-Nightscaping might be looking for a new General Manager.

kansashoosier
04-29-2009, 07:32 PM
Hey bud, I wouldn't be knocking Tommy around here. That guy is incredibly innovative in the field of lighting. There is a reason he was asked to be on a major network program like Yard Crashers. You may want to brush up on some of the older threads Tommy wrote about some of the personal mental struggles he had over the very issues you brought up. It is the DIY network which is definitely not what we do, but he is hoping to bring new creative thought to some watching, (more than your typical runway lights and spot lights on trees), even in a small way, anyway he can. Obviously as Tom mentioned, some people are just going to be DIYers. Also, are you honestly going to tell me that you wouldn't go on a national show if you were invited?

Tim,

If you will read that post, I called him one of the more respected posters on here. And no, I wouldn't turn down a national show. But at the same time, contractors as a whole shouldn't be complaining about fixing poorly installed systems when they (we, and not just Tommy, a lot of guys) are showing people how to do different things in a very limited time on a television show, at a trade show booth, an hour seminar, etc. And no, my name isn't bud.

TXNSLighting
04-29-2009, 09:43 PM
Kansashoosier, you have worn out your welcome.

Mark B
04-29-2009, 10:27 PM
Would someone pass me that beer and shot??? Thanks :D

TXNSLighting
04-29-2009, 10:45 PM
me to please...

Marcos
04-29-2009, 11:19 PM
David, Kansas, Ned, Steve,
Excellent perspectives.
In general, there is a "Pro" customer, and a DIY customer.
And although both sides, (Installers and Retailers), try to attract crossovers, I see a formidable chasm between the two customers.
Perhaps our best Marketing efforts only serve to help them confirm which group they fall into.
There is still a large untapped customer base out there on both sides.
Our industry's job is to "sell the dream", and to quote Alan's earlier comment; Let the rising tide raise all boats".
Gregg, I joined the company in the late 90's, off site, so I'm not the best person to answer the off shore question.
I think the metal fixture that you are referring to is our "work horse" CL507, MR16 flood. It is amazing how many of those we have sold through the years.
I do want to say thanks again for all the well wishes.
By the way; did I mention that we have fixtures for sell?:-).
Tom


Good luck to you, Tom! :waving:

I installed a Malibu 300 watt capacity transformer into our own lighting system about 2 1/2 -3 years ago.
It works wonderfully, running five MR-16 35 watt well lights that shine up onto the front of our ranch homes's 7 foot Alberta spruces and cedar siding, plus two 11 watt copper pagotas near our entranceway and garage.
No problems whatsoever.

Lite4
04-29-2009, 11:40 PM
Was going to reply to Kansas, but decided it wasn't worth the response. Boy wish I could just take shots at people with complete aninimity.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
04-29-2009, 11:55 PM
Oh, forget it! Not worth the effort

Lite4
04-30-2009, 12:10 AM
Hey James,

hows Biz for you lately?

TXNSLighting
04-30-2009, 12:16 AM
Yeh but hey good times! I start into that retaliation mindset then just say ya know, this is the internet!! who cares! If you take stuff personal here you may have other issues!

Anyways hows biz with you Tim?

Lite4
04-30-2009, 12:26 AM
Biz has been picking up pretty good.* Could always be doing more installs but not too bad for only 2 months in the area.* How bout yourself?

TXNSLighting
04-30-2009, 12:30 AM
Good to hear. Well were finally getting some interest again. I decided to really push the networking aspect and it is paying off. Landed a great job from a pool company.

kansashoosier
04-30-2009, 09:26 AM
Biz has been picking up pretty good.* Could always be doing more installs but not too bad for only 2 months in the area.* How bout yourself?


Maybe if you could sell a little better you wouldn't have had to move across the country to get another job after your business failed, and then your current boss wouldn't have to keep offering to purchase you competitors because you can't out perform them either.

David Gretzmier
04-30-2009, 10:25 AM
oops...

that will probably get you deleted.

and for the record, I think I said way back when that the strainer thing was probably something a little out there for me too. I don't want clients expecting me to do that. The valence/led rope light thing was awesome, and i would replicate that.

Looking at all the photo's of firefly's demos, I really am stunned that the quality of the work did not yield more fruit.

and I think we need to let this thread be about the malibu lights for sale and leave it at that. as exciting as this banter is, ok guys?

JoeyD
04-30-2009, 10:59 AM
I wonder what HD is doing now that Malibu is no longer? Is HD doing their own lighting importing? I wonder if they will be the next solid brass importer??? LOL :cry: I can just see it now! :hammerhead:

Seriously though is HD doing something on their own? I have to imagne that has something to do with why Malibu is going under?

Alan B
04-30-2009, 12:04 PM
The HD's around Tampa switched to stocking a new line of Hampton Bay and which seems to be positioned (packaging and product) a slight notch up in quality for consumer landscape lighting.

Competition comes from all directions and can't be stopped. The only way to effectively counteract is focus on improving our own businesses opposed to focusing on others. (Joey that is not directed at you--just a general comment on how I think we should all try and forge thru this recession).

Back to the thread--Tom's here to announce the great deals on Malibu and selling them at what I gotta believe is below cost.

TRabic
04-30-2009, 01:03 PM
Gr1ffin,

I appreciate the refocus note.

Or as Eeyore used to say; thanks for noticing...

Tom

Lite4
04-30-2009, 01:31 PM
Maybe if you could sell a little better you wouldn't have had to move across the country to get another job after your business failed, and then your current boss wouldn't have to keep offering to purchase you competitors because you can't out perform them either.

Really, now is that the best you can do? Mud-slinging? Who said my business failed? I gave 2 excellent sales leads to another lighting professional in Boise when I left. It's purely a numbers game. There are more numbers in Indy therefore, I can produce greater revenue. No problem though bud, I will happily go on taking customers away from you because of my "poor selling performance". As a matter of fact I closed with a client in Brittany Chase sub. in Westfield last night. Wow, right in your own back yard, where were you on that one?

Mark B
04-30-2009, 02:51 PM
I think it is time for another round.. :D

JoeyD
04-30-2009, 02:54 PM
The HD's around Tampa switched to stocking a new line of Hampton Bay and which seems to be positioned (packaging and product) a slight notch up in quality for consumer landscape lighting.

Competition comes from all directions and can't be stopped. The only way to effectively counteract is focus on improving our own businesses opposed to focusing on others. (Joey that is not directed at you--just a general comment on how I think we should all try and forge thru this recession).

Back to the thread--Tom's here to announce the great deals on Malibu and selling them at what I gotta believe is below cost.

No offense taken Alan. We agree 100%. We cannot stop the copy cats therfore we need to continue to make them play catch up. Whether thats with our new 24v Intelli-System, our new H-Force series of Transformers, Tiki Torch Fixtures, Progressivly designed and expanded Centaurus line, new Stainless Steel underwater light, or our highly innovative Fiber Optics system. We continue to be the Innovators, not the Immitators! :weightlifter:

Spilllight
04-30-2009, 04:10 PM
Just as I found an exterior rated Astro Intermatic Timer. Only available for a limited time.

What else do you folks use for astronomic timers if any?

Lite4
04-30-2009, 04:10 PM
Hey Joey,
When is the fiber product going to be available? I have a project I am meeting on today that I am specifying fiber integrated into the hardscape material. Under the steps and wall cap lips with side glow cable.

TXNSLighting
04-30-2009, 04:11 PM
Maybe if you could sell a little better you wouldn't have had to move across the country to get another job after your business failed, and then your current boss wouldn't have to keep offering to purchase you competitors because you can't out perform them either.

wow............

NightLightingFX
04-30-2009, 04:17 PM
No offense taken Alan. We agree 100%. We cannot stop the copy cats therfore we need to continue to make them play catch up. Whether thats with our new 24v Intelli-System, our new H-Force series of Transformers, Tiki Torch Fixtures, Progressivly designed and expanded Centaurus line, new Stainless Steel underwater light, or our highly innovative Fiber Optics system. We continue to be the Innovators, not the Immitators! :weightlifter:

Joey,
I am just trying to keep you honest. But wouldn't NS be the innovators of the Tiki Torch Fixtures??? I hope you won't hold this comment against me - while I am patiently waiting for your Tiki Torch Fixture to be released.
~Ned

JoeyD
04-30-2009, 04:53 PM
No they would...no worries Ned...we of course will put our own spin into it and my point was we are continuing to develop new products.........

NightLightingFX
04-30-2009, 05:52 PM
No they would...no worries Ned...we of course will put our own spin into it and my point was we are continuing to develop new products.........

You know I like to give you a hard time just to keep you on your toes.:waving:
~Ned

TRabic
04-30-2009, 05:54 PM
Just as I found an exterior rated Astro Intermatic Timer. Only available for a limited time.

What else do you folks use for astronomic timers if any?

Spilllight,
Perhaps not exactly what you're looking for, but here is your answer from my industrial counterpart:
Intermatic has two series of industrial astronomic timers. These are the ET8000 series which is a 7 day electronic timer and the ET70000 series which is a 365 day electronic timer. A typical application for these industrial timers are controlling parking lots lights, billboard lighting, and retail store lighting.
If you want more information, I suggest visiting www.Intermatic.com.

JoeyD
04-30-2009, 06:17 PM
yeah just what I need...another online ball buster.....LOL


(reffering to Ned...should have used the quote feature)

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
05-01-2009, 01:20 AM
Hey James,

hows Biz for you lately?

Things are going very well Tim. We are actually fully booked with new installs well into July now. Service work and additions are strong as always. I am a happy camper!

No idea what the fall will bring but if things keep up like this we will have a year on par with 2008.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
05-01-2009, 01:29 AM
I wonder what HD is doing now that Malibu is no longer? Is HD doing their own lighting importing? I wonder if they will be the next solid brass importer??? LOL :cry: I can just see it now! :hammerhead:

Seriously though is HD doing something on their own? I have to imagne that has something to do with why Malibu is going under?

There are always Noma Moonrays! :)

Seagull makes some stuff too, as does Progress Lighting...

Then there is Pyramid, but they might be out of biz now too.

Our HD stores carry Snoc, or is that snot?

The DIY market has plenty of stuff to choose from... Im sure they will not go unserved for very long.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
05-01-2009, 01:48 AM
Spilllight,
Perhaps not exactly what you're looking for, but here is your answer from my industrial counterpart:
Intermatic has two series of industrial astronomic timers. These are the ET8000 series which is a 7 day electronic timer and the ET70000 series which is a 365 day electronic timer. A typical application for these industrial timers are controlling parking lots lights, billboard lighting, and retail store lighting.
If you want more information, I suggest visiting www.Intermatic.com.

For years I used the ET7000 series Digital Astronomic Timer/Switch as my go-to control device. It is a very robust, but overly expensive unit. It served me well until I found other more cost effective astronomical timers.

I still have dozens of these installed and working flawlessly. The ability to enter 'holiday' programs and change programs based on the day of the week, time of year, etc is really their true strength. Just be prepared for a $300+ cost.

Spilllight
05-01-2009, 12:33 PM
Thanks TRabic and James,

The price is not what I was thinking. We started using the DT27 consumer line timer. Then they were pulled. I then found the HB800RCH. That seemed like what to use but If Intermatic isn't going to make those anymore, who else has a comparable unit?

David Gretzmier
05-02-2009, 01:50 AM
egads, this is a malibu thread but

300 bucks for a timer? I have 6 buck photocells that have lasted over 10 years in the christmas lighting biz. I'm thinking a 300 buck timer should control the whole house, like every breaker.

does that timer come with a complimentary 300 watt multi tap trans?

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
05-02-2009, 03:01 AM
The ET7000 Digital Astronmic Timer is a really really good timer. There is a lot more to it than might appear on the surface. Using it to control a simple lighting system is not using it to its full capabilities.

I used them as they were the only digital timer I could find that was rated to operate to -40 Deg Celcius. All of the cheapo digi-timers I could find used Ni-CAD batteries that would freeze in the winter and loose their charge and ability to hold a charge.

Thankfully things have changed some in the past few years and we now have decent Astro-timers available that use Ni-Mh cells and don't cost a fortune.

David Gretzmier
05-02-2009, 04:01 AM
dang that is cold, -40 degrees C is like..-40 farenheit? huh, the two temperatures are the same at that exact point? james, did you do that just to get a giggle out of me at 2 am?

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
05-02-2009, 10:38 AM
No David... the two temp scales really do meet up at -40. The coldest I have seen living here in Port Sydney for the past 11 years was about 5 years ago, when during our annual mid January 'deep freeze' it dropped to -43.

This past winter saw temperatures drop to -36 Celcius during that same period.

I think it is fascinating to get up in the middle of the night and head outside to experience temperature lows like this. And the sky is so incredibly clear... the stars are like a sea of diamonds and the milky way is astoundingly bright and vast. The cold is numbing to anything exposed and if you take a deep breath you can feel the moisture in your throat freeze. I have actually heard trees pop and crack as they freeze right through. (I had to ask the old boys about that the first time I heard it!)

Thankfully spring is finally fully upon us and things are greening up nicely! :)

Let There Be Light
05-12-2009, 01:56 AM
Just as I found an exterior rated Astro Intermatic Timer. Only available for a limited time.

What else do you folks use for astronomic timers if any?

Spilllight,

Nightscaping has a 400-ETC. Stainless box, Aube astro timer for about $150 retail.

Steve

dusktildawn
06-15-2009, 03:41 PM
what a bunch of d$#che bags on this site. Celebrating a company going out of business, that's high class stuff

TXNSLighting
06-15-2009, 06:13 PM
what a bunch of d$#che bags on this site. Celebrating a company going out of business, that's high class stuff

You obviously know nothing about Landscape lighting..

S&MLL
06-17-2009, 02:07 AM
You obviously know nothing about Landscape lighting..

He is from Jersey

Spilllight
06-17-2009, 01:34 PM
I still don't have another option at a reasonable price. Who makes some other than Intermatic? Grasslin, I don't have any history with them . Are they good or astronomic? Sylvania has a Zip Set but not in a three prong configuration.

Sylvania does have an external mount timer but I want to use the inner recepticle.

Any advice? Thanks.

jshimmin
06-17-2009, 02:27 PM
Intermatic does have an internal unit ( Model: DT620CL) astro timer. Lowes has them for around $19.00. I have a couple dozen out with no issues. Also comes in an external unit.

Spilllight
06-17-2009, 05:30 PM
Thanks jshimmin.

I am looking to find someone other than Intermatic since these won't be available much longer.

Maybe it's time to start an Astro company and pick up the demands.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
06-17-2009, 07:01 PM
No need to start anything. Aube (division of Honeywell) has set the bar with their Astro Timers.

I Recommend the TI035 unit.

http://www.aubetech.com/products/list.php?noLangue=2&noFamille=5&app=14

S&MLL
06-17-2009, 08:29 PM
No need to start anything. Aube (division of Honeywell) has set the bar with their Astro Timers.

I Recommend the TI035 unit.

http://www.aubetech.com/products/list.php?noLangue=2&noFamille=5&app=14

Maybe one day they can raise the bar and change for dst.



So tired of going out 2 times a year to hit one button.

Plus the etc-400 is EXPENSIVE

jshimmin
06-17-2009, 10:18 PM
My understanding is that they are exiting the Malibu line. The timers Intermatic markets will still be available. They are use on a wide variety of products.

I did have to do a service call on an Insteon system last week someone else installed for zone control. It's a pain and has been nothing but problems for them.

Spilllight
06-18-2009, 11:05 AM
Maybe some clarification is needed. I've been told that the consumer line is closing. The commercial grade division will remain but what you find in Lowe's or HD will be pulled. Including Malibu lighting and consumer timers (DT27 etc.) but not the comercial type. I looked at the Aube, it is similar to what Intermatic can provide which would fall into the commercial grade timers which will remain. I'm looking for simplicity. Just a simple plug in timer that would go inside the transformer with some level of self adjustment for the seasons. I guess it doesn't exist other than what remains from Intermatic.

davesan1
11-19-2012, 07:35 PM
In deference to anyone blaming Malibu's "desire to provide a cheap, low end garden lamp product" as the cause of the terrible performance and reliability of their products, the truth is that the real problem is poor design, no quality control and no concept of customer satisfaction. Specifically:

1) In addition to being a fundamentally none-ideal connection solution, Malibu’s implementation of the “pierce point” connector has two major design flaws -
a) The wires from the pierce-point connector to the bulb holder are connected at the pierce-point connector using a "pressed -on” connection versus a metal-to-metal bonding, (such as soldered joint or other permanent bonded electrical connection). This pressed-on assembly easily allows water to enter the connection interface area, and because there is no solid electrical connection, the resulting metal corrosion rapidly causes the connection to become a high resistance point and the light fails. In my experience this is the number one point of failure in the Malibu products-it has eventually happened in every one I ever installed!
b) The frail and flexible (“wobbly”) structure of the plastic “latching” prongs on the Malibu pierce-point connector makes it very difficult to consistently press in the points so that they enter near to the center of the wire, (where there is access to the full diameter of the overall wire lead). Consequently, on installation, each entry point on the connector is often at one or the other side of the feed wire. This decreases the penetration depth into the wire’s insulation and reduces the size of the metal-to wire electrical contact, thus increasing the likelihood of letting water enter the electrical contact with resulting corrosion, and/ or causing an intermittent contact between the point and the conductive wire inside the insulation. Consequently the lamp fails.

2) The ground spike is a poorly re-enforced plastic part which quickly breaks if accidently kicked (even gently!) or pushed in some other way.

3) On the spotlights, the water seal for the glass-centered twist-on or screwed-on “hood” has an appalling history! On the early models this hood was screwed onto the body of the lamp with 4 screws. Beneath the hood was a glass plate and a rubber sealing ring. Once the hood was removed (to change a bulb or clean the glass) it was difficult to accurately re-align the rubber sealing ring so that it actually sealed. Thus, after changing the bulb, water was often more easily able to enter the lamp enclosure. To compound matters, at that time there was no drainage hole in the bottom of the lamp enclosure, thus allowing the water to rise up inside it. Once it covered the bulb holder, (which was a very fragile item with thin, easily damaged metal sockets for the bulb pins), lamp failure followed quickly.
Somewhat later this situation was slightly improved when some genius decided it might really be a good idea to put a drain hole in the bottom of the lamp after all! As a general design feature this was a good idea from day one, but looked at as simply a solution to the water problem it was an ineffective move! It was not a solution. Instead it was a poor, but easy to implement, ineffective partial workaround, and thus the interior of the lamp still frequently became damp and once again rapidly corroded the bulb socket and eventually caused failure.
Malibu’s next step was to exchange the “4- screw” hood design for a complete, partial-turn screw-on hood. However, with this version, incredibly, on the lamp enclosure there was no “platform” to support the bottom of the rubber seal ring. Thus after replacing a bulb, the seal had to be first balanced on a very thin metal ledge and then, when the hood was twisted on, the seal promptly fell down into the lamp enclosure and thus provided no water seal at all, thereby making water exposure damage to the lamp holder even more likely than before. (In my opinion it was very clear that this approach could not possibly have been intended to be a final design. However, I believe that while Malibu was in the process of completing the “screw-on hood” change, they chose to continue to ship their inventory and work-in-process of lamp enclosures, knowing full well that it then became almost impossible to reseal the hood after replacing the bulb. But, (consistently) they shipped them anyway! This continued until they were able (and willing) to start to produce a redesigned lamp enclosure.
Finally, after what seemed to be several years, the lamp enclosure was redesigned with a solid ledge to support the rubber seal ring and this finally solved the sealing problem.
All in all it took over 10 years to resolve the sealing problem. During this time millions of lamps were sold and quickly failed and were junked. Malibu should be ashamed.

4) The lamp holder on the spotlights was extremely flimsy. The metal lamp socket contacts were thin and the surround for the contacts was plastic. This plastic quickly became damaged and weakened by the intense heat of the halogen bulb and eventually it cracked and broke or caused an intermittent contact. In either case the lamp became useless.

5) Also on the spotlights, the swivel mechanism for positioning the light beam included metal parts on some models. These parts inevitably eventually corroded and seized up, rendering the product impossible to position correctly.

The bottom line is that the design was terrible. Quality control was zero. Concern for customer satisfaction was none-existent.

Yes, I agree that to do things right may have cost a little more, but not sufficiently more as to significantly damage sales in a this huge low-end market with practically no major competition. I am now convinced that everything outlined above was done deliberately to increase sales. The lamps needed to be replaced frequently, producing new revenue. Spare parts were scarce and, even if available, cost almost as much as a new lamp, generating more revenue at enormous gross margins. I find this whole situation disgusting and the management of the company should be duly ashamed! They wasted millions of hours of their customers' time over many years. I hope the senior management does not sleep well – they shouldn’t.

So, as proof that such products can be made reliable and profitable, take a look at the “Paradise” family of lights which have recently appeared in the marketplace. This company has cost-effectively addressed ALL the problems that Malibu had and (and in many cases still have), as follows:

1) Their version of the “pierce-point” connector is much improved over Malibu’s. It is a much more solid design and it is easy to close it tightly and to accurately align it in the center of each of the power feed wires. While this generic type of connection employed by both Paradise and Malibu is still fundamentally flawed, largely as a result of their version of the pierce-point connector, I have yet to experience failures in this area with the Paradise lights (as opposed to experiencing eventual failure of this type of connector on every Malibu lamp that I have ever installed). I can just about guarantee that if these were the Malibu equivalents they would have already failed by now! In addition, on the installation instructions for the Paradise product they actually tell you to wrap the connector with electrical tape “for additional protection.” While this doesn’t give full protection, it is a reasonably good, if not perfect, idea (which I personally opted to do with Malibu lights some time ago). However, it is something that Malibu never ever suggested to help their generally non-technically-minded customers, even though they must have been aware for many years that this area was a major problem! Go figure?

2) The ground spike is metal and does not break. The construction also allows you to choose not to use the spike and allows the lamp to instead to be screwed directly onto a wooden or other permanent surface.

3) The hood is a partially-screwed-on solution with an excellent seal. There is a drainage hole in the bottom of the lamp, just in case.

4) The bulb holder is a much more solid construction than even the latest Malibu products. It has lots of ceramic surrounding the bulb pins, thus eliminating the Malibu halogen bulb heat problem.

5) The beam positioning mechanism is all plastic and thus does not suffer from the Malibu corrosion and seize-up problem.

All this, and Paradise’s prices are around the same as Malibu’s! It can be done. Shame on you Malibu.

The Paradise products were briefly on sale a couple of years ago in Home Depot or Lowe’s (not sure which it was) but shortly thereafter they were removed from the shelves. One can’t help wondering if there was some sort of “threat” from Malibu that caused this sudden withdrawal of the product). Paradise products now seem to only be available (in California at least) from DeNault’s Hardware. Does anyone know of any other retail outlets for these products? Meanwhile Home Depot and Lowe’s continue to ship the Malibu junk. Get a life you guys, if you want to satisfy your customers.

OK I’m done. Glad I got it of my chest at last!

Buy Paradise, (no I do not have a financial interest in the company!)

GreenLight
11-19-2012, 09:45 PM
You may want to put a helmet on, I have a feeling this is going to get ugly.

BrandonV
11-19-2012, 09:52 PM
smells like a rep to me :-)

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
11-19-2012, 11:09 PM
I simply cannot understand why anyone would put so much time and effort into an in depth review of Malibu or promotion of paradise. This is a forum for pros. I would hope that no professional would be caught dead using this stuff.
Posted via Mobile Device

starry night
11-19-2012, 11:23 PM
The OP says he has used both brands: "I have yet to experience failures in this area with the Paradise lights (as opposed to experiencing eventual failure of this type of connector on every Malibu lamp that I have ever installed). "

Steve Atkinson
11-20-2012, 01:17 PM
I just looked at that site under Where To Buy.

Costco, Ace Hardware, Orchard Supply. That says it all.

Lite4
11-21-2012, 09:06 AM
Same product + different box = same cheap equipment

Lets call it MALIBU-2

irrig8r
11-25-2012, 03:04 PM
What I'd prefer is that these inferior... (cheap, planned obsolescent) brands stay available to the DIY market AND that professional grade products NOT be sold at discount to those not in the trade.... BUT because of both internet sales and brick and mortar distributors not wanting to lose potential sales, that just isn't the case anymore.

irrig8r
11-25-2012, 03:08 PM
I just looked at that site under Where To Buy.

Costco, Ace Hardware, Orchard Supply. That says it all.

I just Googled "paradise lighting" and the two sponsored links at the top of the results page are large online retailers. No, I won't name them.

Mike M
11-28-2012, 11:00 PM
They got pierce points... Quick someone call Mike M and let him know.

Hahaha. Not those ones. I was looking ahead at chaining LED's, especially above-ground applications. I see saw Kichler with one, greased and sealed. Let's see, 2009, people still busting on LED's then, too.