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View Full Version : Time for a new mower. Scag or exmark......?


DillonsLawnCare
04-28-2009, 09:07 AM
Alright guys, I'm sure most of you know me by the kid who has all the trouble with lawn mowers, especially that toro that sucked ass.

It's time to get a new mower and use this scag walkbehind as a back up. My two choices are:

2008 exmark lazer z AS 52" ultracut w/ 28hp kawi for $8200 + tax

2009 scag wildcat 52" velocity plus w/ 25hp kawi for $8000 OTD

How are the prices on these? I feel like the exmark is a little high on the price only because it's an '08 model... I don't know which one to pick. I have a few hills that i cut, and I cut alot of thick/ lush fescue and then some Bermuda later on in the summer.

The exmark dealer is great, but the scag dealer is just alright. I want the exmark, but the price tag and the doubt of that this mower might not fit my business is holding me back. What should I get?

KS_Grasscutter
04-28-2009, 09:12 AM
Demo both and see which one you like better.

ALC-GregH
04-28-2009, 09:12 AM
I'm partial to Scag. They cut fescue and other northern grasses very well. The Exmark will too. Look at the Tiger Cat as well. They can be had for a good price.

DillonsLawnCare
04-28-2009, 10:27 AM
Alright. Thanks!!

TheC-Master
04-28-2009, 11:50 AM
I like the Exmark, it is a bit smoother in ride and has a slightly superior cut IMO, but scag does indeed have more durability. If you are an owner operator the ExMark would work for you as it is very durable too, but it is pricey.

newtostone
04-28-2009, 11:55 AM
It depends on the lawn mowing your doing. I like the larger engine and I also own an AS and have owned a wildcat with a HP. The scag will cut thicker taller grass better than the exmark. If you do weekly mowing than the exmark is the winner......says my initial thoughts but I think that may change in this situation due to the engine size difference. But I will let it be said that a scag will typically provide a better first cut on thicker lawns than a comparable exmark.

Scag- Handles thick grass well. I think its slightly under powered. Will hold hills much better than exmark any day (wildcat vs AS)

Exmark- Better cut, front end is a bit tipsy (I put a weight kit on the front and much better now) More HP which is a wonderful thing. The AS is slightly faster with larger hydro pumps so it feels a bit jerky but I personally like how responsive it is over the scag, scags dampers are stiff.

TheC-Master
04-28-2009, 12:03 PM
It depends on the lawn mowing your doing. I like the larger engine and I also own an AS and have owned a wildcat with a HP. The scag will cut thicker taller grass better than the exmark. If you do weekly mowing than the exmark is the winner......says my initial thoughts but I think that may change in this situation due to the engine size difference. But I will let it be said that a scag will typically provide a better first cut on thicker lawns than a comparable exmark.

Scag- Handles thick grass well. I think its slightly under powered. Will hold hills much better than exmark any day (wildcat vs AS)

Exmark- Better cut, front end is a bit tipsy (I put a weight kit on the front and much better now) More HP which is a wonderful thing. The AS is slightly faster with larger hydro pumps so it feels a bit jerky but I personally like how responsive it is over the scag, scags dampers are stiff.

A lot of people like Scag for side discharge and Exmark for mulching.

mowerbrad
04-28-2009, 02:44 PM
I haven't used either one but why not get the scag since you already have a scag wb? That way you will only need to go to one dealer for everything instead of two. I have heard good things about both so you know you will be getting a good mower.

bryansong
04-28-2009, 02:47 PM
Nice idea Brad

tacoma200
04-28-2009, 03:35 PM
I can't imagine a 52" deck on a large frame Z. Go for a 60" and save some trimming. Of course I don't know your circumstances but I couldn't stand not having a little extra deck on the trim side. They are right the Exmark is better for standard cutting and the Scag handles wet heavy growth better.

DillonsLawnCare
04-28-2009, 04:23 PM
Ok, but will the scag still leave a proffessional cut? I know it cuts thick grass well, but I also have weekly accounts. Will it still give a good manicured cut?

tacoma200
04-28-2009, 07:00 PM
Ok, but will the scag still leave a proffessional cut? I know it cuts thick grass well, but I also have weekly accounts. Will it still give a good manicured cut?

I have no problems, sharp high lift blades will leave a very good cut with the Scag deck. Scag has been a very versatile mower for me. I can cut very nice lawns as well as the other brands I see or cut overgrown grass. The Exmark is just slightly better in manicured lawns.

SNAPPER MAN
04-28-2009, 07:02 PM
Tacoma, do you have problems with your turf tigers rutting lawns? I am considering buying one because I have been offered a very good deal but I'm just concerned about the weight. The mower looks alot heavier than exmarks and toros.

tacoma200
04-28-2009, 07:05 PM
Ok, but will the scag still leave a proffessional cut? I know it cuts thick grass well, but I also have weekly accounts. Will it still give a good manicured cut?

Yes, it will leave a manicured cut. I just sold my Exmark because the Scag can do both.

newtostone
04-28-2009, 07:49 PM
Yes, it will leave a manicured cut. I just sold my Exmark because the Scag can do both.


Agreed If I could have one it would be scag my dealer just isnt the best so I suck up the clumping and double cutting come spring and the rest of the season I am in love with my exmarks.

DillonsLawnCare
04-28-2009, 08:12 PM
ok. well im going to the dealer tomorrow and im getting the wildcat!!!!!


One last question. They have 2 wildcats in stock, and one of them has the 25hp Kawi and the other one has the 26hp LC Kawi. There's a $400 price difference. Should i get the liquid cooled over the air cooled? Is tere more power in the 26 LC???? I need all the power and torque i can get.

Should i get a striping kit, or do they stripe well without one? Or is it even worth the money?

And then, i was gunna try and get the suspension seat. Hopefully they can give me a good deal, since im paying cash for it..

Let me know what you guys think about the engines/ accessories.

Thanks for all the help so far!!!!

tacoma200
04-28-2009, 08:50 PM
ok. well im going to the dealer tomorrow and im getting the wildcat!!!!!


One last question. They have 2 wildcats in stock, and one of them has the 25hp Kawi and the other one has the 26hp LC Kawi. There's a $400 price difference. Should i get the liquid cooled over the air cooled? Is tere more power in the 26 LC???? I need all the power and torque i can get.

Should i get a striping kit, or do they stripe well without one? Or is it even worth the money?

And then, i was gunna try and get the suspension seat. Hopefully they can give me a good deal, since im paying cash for it..

Let me know what you guys think about the engines/ accessories.

Thanks for all the help so far!!!!

Even though both are probably a good choice I would want to test drive them, they handle and operate differently.

tacoma200
04-28-2009, 08:58 PM
Tacoma, do you have problems with your turf tigers rutting lawns? I am considering buying one because I have been offered a very good deal but I'm just concerned about the weight. The mower looks alot heavier than exmarks and toros.

We had a "very, very" wet Spring. I saw a lot of mowers stuck. On one job in a small low area it left some tracks about 10 ft long in a dip but no permanent rut. The tires seem wide enough to distribute the weight with out rutting. There may be soils some where that give a problem, but I haven't had any.

ALC-GregH
04-28-2009, 08:59 PM
I'd go with A/C over L/C. Less things to fail. The Tiger CAT is basically the same mower as the Wildcat outside the engine. If you get a Wildcat, ask the dealer what kind of price he'll give you on a STWC61V-27CV. The only advantage I can see that the Wildcat has over the Cat is the quick adjust handles, engine size (30hp Kohler can be had as well) and flat free front caster tires.

I also agree with Tacoma, the added inches on the trim side are nice to have. Essentially you would have a mower that looks pretty much like this with a cut like this. :) Care for a glass of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYS7aQY1iZI&NR=1

http://momentoffame.com/photopost/data/501/Dscn2639.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/americanlawncare/DSC01305.jpg
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e160/americanlawncare/DSC01308.jpg

DillonsLawnCare
04-28-2009, 09:37 PM
When i go to the dealer tomorrow, ill try out both models, and i'll ask what they have in the 61" mowers.

ALC-Gregh : Nice mower!!! How do you like the suspension seat? I think it makes the mower look even more bad ass!

I do know on the wildcat, another feature is the flat free caster tires.

Since i've got a 52" walkbehind now, i guess i could look into getting a 61". But then again i have some 56" gates i need to get through with the Wildcat. Idk... ill see.

Thanks again!!! oh and is the 25hp gonna be enough hp for that 52" mower?

Mike Blevins
04-28-2009, 09:50 PM
Oh you are going ot love the Wildcat. Awsome mowers! I had a 52 " 25 air-cooled kaw model and to this day miss it sometimes. Great mowers highly recommend to anybody. I would go liquid cooled 26 if it were me though. I know a few around here that have this option and they have performed flawlessly. :usflag: I am going to make some KOOL-AId and celebrate!:drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup::drinkup:

ALC-GregH
04-28-2009, 09:58 PM
Mine seems to be enough even with the bagger kit. The only time it lacks power is on hills, everywhere else it's fine. That's with the bagger. Without the bagger, it's good anywhere.

newtostone
04-29-2009, 12:32 AM
Should i get a striping kit, or do they stripe well without one? Or is it even worth the money?

Waste of money. You'll get hung up it, and it will fall apart. Mine didn't even last 200 hours before it was bent and half of it was missing. Save the money.

I would even hold off on the seat. The wildcat was pretty smooth compared to the AS. I would vote for flat free fronts. But them on Ebay or online for half the cost.

TandM
04-29-2009, 10:00 AM
Finally............. You are gonna love it!

Hereitcomes
04-30-2009, 11:44 AM
The prices I am seeing around me for the wildcat are $1500.00 more. Does your dealer ship to NY?

DillonsLawnCare
05-02-2009, 09:39 PM
Im not sure if they will or not.... i can give you their contact info and you can call if you wish.

I went to the scag dealer this morning and put a down payment on a SCAG Wildcat 52" Velocity plus deck 25 hp Kawisaki. The dealer let me "demo" their demo wildcat, because the mower i bought was still in a crate. Since im extremely behind on all my yards he just let me take it home until they put mine together.

So its been raining here for the past 3 days. We had some breaks in the weather today and i started cutting with the SCAG!! All the lawns i cut were sopping wet and overgrown. About 7-12" inches high.

I noticed that the 26 kawi LC on the demo was enough power. It didn't bog down once. The velocity deck did clump up, and had a good amount of build up under the deck after just one yard. The cut was great, but all the excess clippings lying around made it look like ****. So i raised the deck from 3.5 inches to 4 inches. No more clumping, smooth even cutting. It does leave long clippings lying around, but i'd rather have that than clumps.

So on the last yard i did today, it had alot of high single grass stalks everywhere!!!! I was going about half speed, and the cut was amazing. I was cutting a 4 inches, and it was as smooth as carpet. The grass was also wet too. I couldn't believe it!!! All i can say is WOW!

Cutting on the velocity plus:

Super thick, tall, sopping wet grass: B cut (Clumps ruin it though)

Thick, wet grass: B+ cut

Medium Tall, semi-wet grass: A cut

And i have not tried it out on dry grass, but ill make a new thread for my new mower when i pick it up at the dealer tuesday!

Thanks!!!!

tacoma200
05-02-2009, 09:48 PM
I cut at 3.5" often, rarely ever do I see anything that resembles a clump of course I'm not talking about 12" down to 3.5". Cut in the rain today(misting after 2 days steady rain) and never clumped or had to go over anything. The top of the deck is covered with wet grass but it did fine. It does miss dandelions sometimes. I think you will adjust to it just fine. Good luck!

DillonsLawnCare
05-02-2009, 09:53 PM
Yeah i was surprised at the clumps myself. Do you run high lifts on your TACOMA??

Cause they just had the standards on these.

DillonsLawnCare
05-02-2009, 09:56 PM
oh and should i get a suspension seat?? how much are they?

tacoma200
05-02-2009, 10:02 PM
Yeah i was surprised at the clumps myself. Do you run high lifts on your TACOMA??

Cause they just had the standards on these.


I use high lifts but like today I slowed down the rpm's and went slowly. If you were cutting 12" grass as wet as it has been you were really in some extreme conditions. If I cut a tall field/lot and the grass is wet, yes it leaves a little mess, but not as bad as other brands I've used. It's not perfect, just very good. I think you will find the high lifts will leave a crisper cut in our area.

tacoma200
05-02-2009, 10:06 PM
oh and should i get a suspension seat?? how much are they?

They are expensive, probably over $500 from Scag. You can find these same seats on Ebay, or Northern Tool for less (It's a Michigan seat) but the color will not match. If it rides OK for you then don't worry about it, if not, it's makes a great addition to the Scag. I'll never own one without a suspension seat.

DillonsLawnCare
05-02-2009, 10:06 PM
Alright, thanks for all your help Tacoma!!

I'll order some more high lifts. I had to put high lifts on my scag walk-behind to make it cut better, so yaa....

Thanks!

puppypaws
05-02-2009, 10:42 PM
I can't imagine a 52" deck on a large frame Z. Go for a 60" and save some trimming. Of course I don't know your circumstances but I couldn't stand not having a little extra deck on the trim side. They are right the Exmark is better for standard cutting and the Scag handles wet heavy growth better.

Tacoma, I have a question? I may be off base, but it would appear to me that the Exmark UltraCut, and a Scag with the Velocity deck, would cause the same hp engine to react differently. I would think the UltraCut with more suction, holding the grass underneath the deck longer to produce shorter grass clippings, and a smaller discharge opening would require more hp. The Scag with a Velocity deck, moving grass through a much larger discharge opening at a faster speed, should take the same hp as the Exmark and perform better. I would contend there should be a distinguished difference in the way both mowers handle large dry, or normal size damp grass.

You have experienced this many times with both mowers. I understand you can't get a normal comparison, because the 35 Vanguard is so powerful it makes any mower perform totally different. I thought you may have some idea of how these totally different decks utilize hp. Next week I will see for myself how the Velocity, Triton and series 6 UltraCut decks respond to all cutting situations I have in my area, that is if nothing else happens.

ALC-GregH
05-02-2009, 11:03 PM
Get a suspension seat, it's worth it.

tacoma200
05-03-2009, 12:57 AM
Tacoma, I have a question? I may be off base, but it would appear to me that the Exmark UltraCut, and a Scag with the Velocity deck, would cause the same hp engine to react differently. I would think the UltraCut with more suction, holding the grass underneath the deck longer to produce shorter grass clippings, and a smaller discharge opening would require more hp. The Scag with a Velocity deck, moving grass through a much larger discharge opening at a faster speed, should take the same hp as the Exmark and perform better. I would contend there should be a distinguished difference in the way both mowers handle large dry, or normal size damp grass.

You have experienced this many times with both mowers. I understand you can't get a normal comparison, because the 35 Vanguard is so powerful it makes any mower perform totally different. I thought you may have some idea of how these totally different decks utilize hp. Next week I will see for myself how the Velocity, Triton and series 6 UltraCut decks respond to all cutting situations I have in my area, that is if nothing else happens.

The Ultra-Cut seemed to pull more power, even when not cutting grass the Ultra-Cut moves a lot of air. Sounds kind of like a propeller on a plane with high lifts on it. But your right, with the torque the Tiger has, it is hard to tell for sure. I always thought the XR7 used very little power and seemed to slice through grass with little resistance, it just didn't have enough lift for our area. One thing is for sure, I have used a lot of name brand mowers and for blowing off driveways it is obvious that the Ultra-Cut has the best air flow. It is all concentrated at the chute opening at very high velocity. All the other ZTR's I've used would scatter some grass out from under the deck in front and on the trim side, the Ultra-Cut is the only one that almost 100% of the air flow is in one direction. I hope this makes sense to you, it's hard to explain but it is so obvious that Exmark had the air flow on this deck just right for maximum lift and dispersing. In other words the Exmarks I owned had very little blow out and would make excellent collection type ZTR's.

puppypaws
05-03-2009, 08:00 AM
The Ultra-Cut seemed to pull more power, even when not cutting grass the Ultra-Cut moves a lot of air. Sounds kind of like a propeller on a plane with high lifts on it. But your right, with the torque the Tiger has, it is hard to tell for sure. I always thought the XR7 used very little power and seemed to slice through grass with little resistance, it just didn't have enough lift for our area. One thing is for sure, I have used a lot of name brand mowers and for blowing off driveways it is obvious that the Ultra-Cut has the best air flow. It is all concentrated at the chute opening at very high velocity. All the other ZTR's I've used would scatter some grass out from under the deck in front and on the trim side, the Ultra-Cut is the only one that almost 100% of the air flow is in one direction. I hope this makes sense to you, it's hard to explain but it is so obvious that Exmark had the air flow on this deck just right for maximum lift and dispersing. In other words the Exmarks I owned had very little blow out and would make excellent collection type ZTR's.

I understand totally, just wanted you to verify my thoughts. I also wanted to point out through your experience, the Exmark would require more hp with the UltraCut deck to handle rough cutting situations in comparison to the Scag Velocity deck. I would also think you could get by with less hp on the Triton deck, due to the design and grass size being dispersed.

TandM
05-05-2009, 10:16 AM
I am too looking at getting high lifts for my tiger cub. not tryin to jack your thread but would it help the suction for bagging? I just have a little side catch bagger so I think it would help right?????

familylawncare
05-05-2009, 12:00 PM
Or you could just bite the bullet and get a Turf Tiger, which will last longer and perform better than Wildcat or Cub. You are not just mowing granny's yard are you?
Just bought a new 35HP Turf Tiger for under $9200
We now have three Tigers and are very durable and dependable.

TandM
05-06-2009, 09:48 AM
The turf Tiger is a great machine as well. But it is heavier and has a wider stance. which for residentials is uneeded.

ALC-GregH
05-06-2009, 09:55 AM
The turf Tiger is a great machine as well. But it is heavier and has a wider stance. which for residentials is not needed.

That's why I bought the Cub. It has a 61" deck and does smaller residentials fine with less soil compaction.

TandM
05-06-2009, 10:03 AM
same here. mine is only a 48 but if I was to buy a 52 I would have gotten the cub as well. even the 61. I was looking at them yesterday. I love the cub holds hills great has plenty of power. Just a great all around mower. oh and almost industructable haha

powerequippro
05-15-2009, 08:40 PM
OK, here goes and i usually dont do this. Scag Velocity deck lets you cut in all conditions and the discharge is terrific. Turf Tigers are tried and true with very little problems and are built for the long haul. Exmark new Generation, which is virtually the same as the new toro G3 series; mowers are untested and their Triton deck cut like the old Scag Advantage deck; poorly. Guess i'm a Scag guy, but more important, i'll go with the better built mower with the better discharge that can cut in all conditions! Oh, one more thing; buy them from a dealer who values your business and goes the extra mile.

taco1a2
05-17-2009, 10:42 PM
how much is a 09

SNAPPER MAN
05-17-2009, 10:53 PM
I just bought a new scag turf tiger last week and I have never used such a awesome mower. The velocity plus deck is hands down the best. Has no problem in tall stuff and leaves a beautiful cut on manicured lawns. I got mine for $9600 out the door because it was a left over 08. It's funny how other brands are constantly researching and making their models better while scag has stuck with the same turf tiger design for years, just using different engines and decks. I am sold on scag from now on!

tacoma200
05-17-2009, 11:27 PM
The turf Tiger is a great machine as well. But it is heavier and has a wider stance. which for residentials is uneeded.

Yes that is true, depending on where you live. If I were in a more level urban area I would want a Lazer, Deere, or Wildcat. The Turf Tiger isn't the best choice for delicate area's (It's like a bull in a china shop, but I'm a decent bull rider).

puppypaws
05-17-2009, 11:45 PM
Yes that is true, depending on where you live. If I were in a more level urban area I would want a Lazer, Deere, or Wildcat. The Turf Tiger isn't the best choice for delicate area's (It's like a bull in a china shop, but I'm a decent bull rider).

That is funny, I came home from church and watched the PBR, one boy had been thrown and the bull kicked his rear end up, one hoof came down square on the side of the young mans face. His jaw was broken and it gave him a concussion. Now, just think about that a minute, these bulls weigh from 1600 to over 2000 lbs., lay you head down on packed dirt and let someone pick a rear wheel on your TT up. Don't pick it up as high as the bulls rear end was off the ground (around 6'), just have them pick it up to where all other three tires are on the ground, then drop it on the side of your head.

Now, lets stop and think a minute how tough or brain dead these bull riders actually are. :wall