White Gardens

[White Gardens]

I thought I would put together a thread on work done. I need something to do on days like today when it has rained almost everyday for the last two weeks. There is only so much office stuff to keep me occupied.

[White Gardens]

A couple of pics of the garden.

One pic is of my potatoes, lettuce, spinach, green onions, onions, and radishes. Luckily we had a dry day on Easter, so I got my early season stuff planted.

I'm still waiting for the rest of the garden to dry out before I till in the rest of my passive mulch pile (worm food) and get my warmer season vegetables in.

The first pic is a close up of the soil, If you look closely you can see the multitude of holes where the worms have been coming to the surface at night to dry out.

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[White Gardens]

Short free standing wall. (not retaining much) I used Mortar on the back half of the blocks so that the mortar won't show in the front making it look like a dry laid wall.

Everyone is welcome to comment or ask questions.

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[White Gardens]

Few More.........

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[Smallaxe]

Looks like a fun project. I'm afraid to start something like that because it would be only to the second step by end of summer. :)
That tree seemed high in relation to the foundation of the house.

[White Gardens]

Looks like a fun project. I'm afraid to start something like that because it would be only to the second step by end of summer. :)
That tree seemed high in relation to the foundation of the house.

Yes, very high. I really wanted it to go, but they decided to keep it. The wall has been causing me fits because of the weird grade.

[Whitey4]

That grade sure is funky. Even tougher to do I imagine, given the uneveness of the stone selected. Where exactly is the mortar? I don't follow that part of the install.

[White Gardens]

That grade sure is funky. Even tougher to do I imagine, given the uneveness of the stone selected. Where exactly is the mortar? I don't follow that part of the install.

The mortar is between the back 2/3rds of the wall, so you can't see it in the front to give the apearance of an old-world dry laid wall. I just new in that location, next to the driveway, that it needed to be solid. Also, if the block was a little more flat and uniform, then I would have done a base and used block adhesive for each course.

The base is three inches of concrete with re-bar running the length of the base for extra support. I didn't want to do a deeper base as I was running into massive tree roots.

Yes, the uneven block sucked hard. They look great, but I had to use a firm mortar to keep as level as possible with each course.

All in all I like it. I can't decide if I should continue the last course to the garage or not. With the step-down on the upper end, I think it looks O.K. the way it is.


Any thoughts????


Here are the current pics, the wall is going to look great when it's washed down. Right now there is a lot of dust from my cuts.

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[White Gardens]

That tree seemed high in relation to the foundation of the house.

Also, I just realized that the tree was probably there before the garage was added. Behind the garage there is a 30 foot steep hill.

[Whitey4]

I think I would prefer the look of continuing the course to the end of the wall. Looks nice, but that one stone by itself looks a bit out of place to me.

[Smallaxe]

Another row to the garage would dress it up nicely.

Do you have water problems with the garage being so low? Around here almost everyone is on a hill; and sometimes they underestimate the water pressures , particularily in the spring thaw.

[White Gardens]

I do agree about the last course. I might talk the HO into letting me run it to the garage.

Here is how I took care of the water issues. The garage is on a pad, but the basement does get water, and the drain corrected that issue. They did have water once a week ago when we got 5 inches of rain in 36 hours, and they left a low spot where they finished off the electrical service into the house.

Since then I've corrected the problem and shouldn't be an issue.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=253922&highlight=Rock+For+French+Drain

[White Gardens]

I think I would prefer the look of continuing the course to the end of the wall. Looks nice, but that one stone by itself looks a bit out of place to me.

I think I'll have to concede and agree. I'm talking to the HO's today and we are going to decide what to do.

Got to love Memorial day. Another day that all my suppliers are closed.

Don't get me wrong, I respect out troops and everyone who has faught for us. I figure if they can go out and work, risking their lives, 24-7, then I can show my respect by working somewhat as hard as they do on Memorial Day.

[Whitey4]

I was out there today too! I finished up that planting job I started a thread about.

[White Gardens]

So, in person, the job looks great. The homeowners are happy and that's all that matters.

I choose my plantings and spacing to allow a little room for the HO to piddle around with. She likes to do some gardening, and I'll I was trying to do is give her a good start.

I got the mulch down today before it started raining. Then I took pics after the rain. While I was there I was able to observe the function of my french drain and I couldn't be happier. In one pic is a puddle, and at the right edge you could see the water hit it and disappeared. The main source of the water was from the driveway, so there was a lot and the trench absorbed it with ease.

The other pic of the pipe is the outlet, ten minutes later and it was flowing twice as much.

Yes, we decided not to continue the last course on the wall. I really wanted to to help hid the downspout, but they were happy. If you were there in person it doesn't look bad at all.

The Easter Island guy was made by a local man, and I'm not sure if he is still around or not. The HO bought it 3 years ago, and I gave him a good home.

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[White Gardens]

And, the last couple of pics.

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[Whitey4]

Nice bro! Looks great! I still think I would have added, rather extended some of the courses a little, but it looks fine as is too. French drains... I don't mess with them, not trained, qualified or legal to do so. Are they a PITA?

[White Gardens]

Nice bro! Looks great! I still think I would have added, rather extended some of the courses a little, but it looks fine as is too. French drains... I don't mess with them, not trained, qualified or legal to do so. Are they a PITA?

Ya, if it was my property, then I would have extended the course. In person, with the drop on the upper end, it works OK.

French drain wasn't too bad. Actually highly profitable. This was my first one, so I did all the homework I needed to do it correctly. The 6 inch trencher made a wide enough cut to lay a 4 inch perforated pipe. The worst part was lining the trench with fabric. Other wise, the back-filling etc... wasn't a big issue. It's all documented in the thread I posted a link too after smallaxe had questions about water drainage.

Thanks for the comments, anyone else can feel free to make some, good bad or ugly.... :laugh:

[Whitey4]

Ya, if it was my property, then I would have extended the course. In person, with the drop on the upper end, it works OK.

French drain wasn't too bad. Actually highly profitable. This was my first one, so I did all the homework I needed to do it correctly. The 6 inch trencher made a wide enough cut to lay a 4 inch perforated pipe. The worst part was lining the trench with fabric. Other wise, the back-filling etc... wasn't a big issue. It's all documented in the thread I posted a link too after smallaxe had questions about water drainage.

Thanks for the comments, anyone else can feel free to make some, good bad or ugly.... :laugh:

I'm pretty sure my landscaper's license does not include things like french drains.... so it isn't on my radar in the near term. Might be worth looking into at some point. I know that just the liability insurance here would be a big nut for sure.

Question: If you really think that extending the courses would have made a big difference, would you low ball the price just to be able to finish it the way you want? Maybe some discount? I find myself doing this, and wonder if I am just negotiating poorly. Lets say you have priced it at so many $ per foot.... would you drop the per foot price 50% to get the job done if it wasn't going to mean too much time and labor?

[White Gardens]

I'm pretty sure my landscaper's license does not include things like french drains.... so it isn't on my radar in the near term. Might be worth looking into at some point. I know that just the liability insurance here would be a big nut for sure.

Question: If you really think that extending the courses would have made a big difference, would you low ball the price just to be able to finish it the way you want? Maybe some discount? I find myself doing this, and wonder if I am just negotiating poorly. Lets say you have priced it at so many $ per foot.... would you drop the per foot price 50% to get the job done if it wasn't going to mean too much time and labor?

We don't need licenses for landscaping or such here. Don't really know why. I do know there is an Association for landscapers, but it seems that it is predominately up north around the Chicago area where it becomes a factor. I made a disclaimer for this customer stating that I wasn't responsible if water entered the basement because we used perforated pipe the whole distance. So far, there hasn't been any water in the basement, and solved the problem of the water that was entering the basement.

It wouldn't have cost me much more just to finish that course. Generally speaking, I would have been well withing my markup if I bought another 4-5 blocks to finish. Besides, when I give an estimate, it's only that, and sometimes my costs exceed the estimate. Another thing is to, that when you look at the total cost of the project, the customer 90% of the time doesn't as much raise an eyebrow over 50-100 bucks difference.

[White Gardens]

Here's pics of the latest work.

The before pics were right after I pulled 1.5 yards of debris from the beds, including old fabric, weeds and woody volunteer trees.

All the rock was pulled from the sidewalk, and I spread it out and used a leaf-blower to get the worst of the debris out of it. I then used my plastic wheelbarrow with holes I drilled, to wash the rock clean. That part of the job took 2 hrs.

After that I removed and old Hydrangea stump (easy), burning bush stump (extra hard), and an over-grown smoke bush (horrible).

I then hand dug the bed pulling stumps and roots from English Ivy that had overgrown the bed.

The next step was to throw out a bale of peat moss and use my yard boss tiller to mix the soil.

Dig next to the sidewalk, grade, plant shrubs, lay fabric with pins, plant grasses, reinstall rock and I was done.

3 days, approximately 14 hrs. labor.

Bed renovations stink. They take twice as long per square foot as a fresh install.

[White Gardens]

These pics were taken a third of the way through.

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[White Gardens]

Finish pics

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[Smallaxe]

The 'Arb' type plants on one side, I recognize... What perennials were put in under the electric meter?

[White Gardens]

The taller is a Karly Rose ornamental grass and the green is a miniture hosta that was already on the property and I took a split off of.

In that spot was the smoke bush, when at it's max, it was hanging over the rail of the deck. Bad choice, and spot for a bush of that size. That was one of the reasons the root ball was hard to remove, I had little to no room to get full swings with the Maddox pick.

We had contemplated putting in an annual vine and trellis. I've had good luck with the Spanish flag, and might have work there. The spot gets a shot of sunlight morning till noon. The other option was a trellis and clematis. I wanted to hide the service box, but the HO liked the grass.

Smaller box-woods were put in along with a Karl Forrester reed grass, and a blue chip. My fabric is cut in an oval shape in hopes that the reed grass will fill that section that it is in.

I also put in a miniature hydrangea near the downspout in the first pics.

[White Gardens]

Also, the box-woods were used as the HO is wanting them to grow together.

I'm also going to donate some maintenance time to help keep the property in shape. The HO's wife was diagnosed with Huntington's Disease 8 years ago and has little to no time to work on his property. The maintenance will come out of the wash in the end as he has a big shaded back yard that needs to be reworked. It already has existing hostas that will be used.

The front needs some junipers ripped out as they have become over-grown, and new shrubs put in. Luckily the guy across the street is a farmer and has offered to rip them out for him with his JD tractor and bucket. That will save him some money in the end.

This job is in Danvers IL where I live. I primarily do work in Bloomington, but it's nice to do jobs in the town I live in. Accross the alley is a church I'm mowing for a guy (relative, on the side, do it lowball, member of the church, and great guy) who just had prostate surgery and is recovering (caught early, no biggy). Then catty corner to that is a lady I'm lining up to do an install.

[Smallaxe]

It turned out well. :)

It is good to have jobs that have more meaning than the money.

[White Gardens]

Just took pics of a job I did late last season.

It's filling in nicely.

The prep work was horrible on this one. Old buried brick sidewalk I found, a 15 inch thick sidewalk I ripped out, and re-used aggregate squares for the patio for the hot tub. The hot tub was on a base of plywood on top of pea gravel.

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[White Gardens]

Finish Pics

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[White Gardens]

And the final Ones

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[Smallaxe]

The grass with the sitting spot and umbrella table would have been more comfortable. But the stone work looks nice.
The alley was a great idea... I liked that alot.

[White Gardens]

The grass with the sitting spot and umbrella table would have been more comfortable. But the stone work looks nice.
The alley was a great idea... I liked that alot.

Originally we were going to put a better patio/sitting area in, but the HO decided that eventually the pool is going to go, and a patio will go up in that area with a water feature.

Thanks for the comments Axe.Thumbs Up

[White Gardens]

I don't necessarily care for the stripe threads, only because there are so many, and stripes are stripes when it comes down to it.

I finally had a chance to mow yesterday, and I'm killing time this morning waiting on call backs from suppliers.

The last pic is of the boy, he's getting an earlier start in the biz.

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[Whitey4]

You do some nice work there, Mr White!

[White Gardens]

Thanks Mr. White

[White Gardens]

This is another one of those late last year projects. I didn't take pics after the original install as I wanted to get good shots after everything had filled out some.

I just went back the other day to replace a Jap Maple that died. The HO wants me to come back and re-do the edging in the front. Here and her husband did the edging 5 years ago, and she wants the same block that I put around the property. I tried to talk her into doing it last year, but because her husband is now deceased, she felt like she needed to keep it for a while longer.

The install was a simple one, minimal prep work, window wells put in to help with the grade, brick and mortar edging, and keep it simple so it just looks clean. (She likes thing clean)

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[White Gardens]

More Pics..............................
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[White Gardens]

And the last ones.
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[White Gardens]

So, at one of my properties, I've killed two of these in a two week period. I'm not sure of the species, but I think it's a Fox Snake. They are varmint eaters, so normally I wouldn't kill them, but the two I got were making a bee-line to the house.

Funny thing is, this isn't a common snake around here. 4 years ago I was trimming around a pond and found one 6 feet long. Two days after killing this one, I traveled two hours to the farm I'm from, and observed one close to my dad's house.

It's just not a species of snake you see around here or in the state, and I've seen three this year. Must be due to the excess rain we've had the last couple of years.

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[White Gardens]

It has rained 4 inches of rain here over the last three days. So, I took a trip to Lincoln Il to my sign guy to finally get the Blue Bomber lettered up. I needed to get it done to be legal (I have commercial plates).

Since I bought this truck 1.5 years ago I've..........

Replaced over 400 dollars in front end parts
Replaced the transmission.
Replaced the starter.
Replaced rotted fuel lines.
Replaced the alternator.
Replaced the water pump, including hoses, tranny cooler, radiator, etc...laced two leaf spring hangers.
Re-built the rear differential. (previous owner messed it up)
Started painting with a rust converter on the frame, under-bed, and sub-frame to stop the rust.

On the list, in order I'd like to get it done,

Complete front Brake Rebuild
RABS valve removed and a proportioning valve installed to compensate.
Sandblast, prime, paint the dump bed, rims, and a new front bumper.
Replace Rag-Joint, steering pump, steering box.
Rebuild rear brakes with a disk-brake conversion.
Find a used 6.9 diesel motor to swap with original.
Have the cab re-done.
Get the ac re-done.
Rebuild the rear leaf pack and hangers I haven't done.

I only paid 3,000 for the truck, dump bed, and plow, and I don't have a payment. So re-building this beast has been fun and worth it. Hopefully by this time next year it will be done, and I won't have to do too much else to it. It also helps to get most of the parts fairly cheap.

It also helps to have a neighbor who is a certified mechanic at the local Peter-Built shop.Thumbs Up

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[Whitey4]

How did you prep those beds for the stone? Roundup, Treflan and fabric, or what? It looks great but I've seen stone beds get pretty nasty in 5 years.... just wondering how you prepped them.

[White Gardens]

How did you prep those beds for the stone? Roundup, Treflan and fabric, or what? It looks great but I've seen stone beds get pretty nasty in 5 years.... just wondering how you prepped them.

I just do all the grading I need to and spray a little roundup when I initially start a project like that. By the time I get to laying fabric, the round-up has already soaked up in the grass and weeds.

Sometimes, I don't even spray and just pull the turf up where I put plants in. So far I haven't had grass or weeds come through.

I take my time to dig a good trench for the brick-edging, and lay the fabric in the trench before my mortar. That makes sure I don't get a seem at the edges where the rock meets the brick. That is the spot for the most potential of grass encroaching into the beds.

The over-all key is to do a nice and smooth grade before laying the fabric. so that you don't have any hills and valleys for water and dirt to collect. I also overlap my fabric by 4 inches or so, and I use plenty of fabric staples to hold it into place. Not too many companies around here do that. They usually have a worker hold the fabric, and they throw rock on it. I also want to make sure that if a weed does get missed and roots a little into the fabric, then it won't pull the fabric up when pulling the weed.

Stone beds do need maintenance. I tell my customers to invest in a leaf blower to help keep dirt and debris out of the rock. They also need to pick any weeds out when they are small before they have a chance to root into the fabric. The thing I hate the most is when you get a dirty load of rock with a lot of mud and fines in it. Really defeats the purpose of trying to keep it clean and not have a space for weeds to germinate.

I had a customer call me stating they had weeds coming up through the fabric. I went over there and realized the used a common bale of straw to get grass growing next to the brick. When he mowed, it was windy, and the straw, and weed seed in it, blew into the bed. That's why I don't use un-sterilized straw as a ground cover. I had to explain to him the situation, and with 3 weeks worth of rain, wild violets took off in-between my rock.

We walk out there, I plucked one, and it wasn't rooted in the fabric at all, and they all pulled out with ease.

The biggest mistakes with rock beds, is that customers think you don't have to do any maintenance to them, and that's not true.

[White Gardens]

First pics are of my Holly Hocks and volunteer sunflowers. I thought I'd snap a few pics before the Japanese beetles have their way with the Holly Hocks. Luckily they've had a slow start with the cooler weather we are having.

The tomato plants are up to 6 feet. That's about as tall as I have my cage set up.

I should be seeing pole beans, tomatoes, cucumbers, sweet corn, potatoes, onions, and peppers withing the next two weeks.

With all the cooler temps, it might take a while for my tomatoes and peppers to ripen, last year it seemed like it took them forever.

GO BLTS !!!!!!! Can't wait, I've got some home-made bacon to go with them.

The cool season stuff is about shot, the lettuce has become extremely bitter. I think I'll get that area tilled after the potatoes are pulled and get ready to do a fall crop.

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[White Gardens]

Last pics.

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[Smallaxe]

We got maybe a month b4 the gardens look like that. :( Even the early sweet corn under plastic has not tasselled out yet.
The tomato cage I do is a 8 - 10 foot poles and tie 3 of them together Tipi style. run the rope around then can always add pungy cords to hold up the individual clusters and stem.
Looks like you are going to need something. It is always a shame, to me, to see tomatoes break over.
Looks good! You must enjoy it...

[White Gardens]

I did OK with this setup last year. I've got 300 feet of rope between the post. It's hard to find rope that doesn't degrade in the sun, so it's almost a waste of money.

I like the Tipi style cages, and I actually have a contractor/neighbor that makes them out of extra redwood he has from projects, and I'm going to hit him up for some for next season to give them a try. right now, at six feet, they seem to do OK without breaking. When ever I go out I try to prune the tomatoes, there are four plants in there and I've got 3 too many.:laugh: One of my first years I tried wire cages stacked on each other, then one day I looked out the window to watch them all fall over from the wind and the weight, anything is better than that.

I got lucky this year with planting because all the rain we've had. I've been getting the garden planted late the last couple of years, and this year I was dedicated to getting in the ground sooner than later. I will admit, some of the plants were almost "mudded" in, but I'm getting good results. I also made some clods, but I'm not too concerned only because the corner of the garden is a low spot on the property, and I plan on bringing in about 10 tons of dirt and shifting the garden out of the shade, so ultimately the clods will go by-by.

You are probably in better shape than most AXE. Some people around here just got their gardens finished. Now we need some heat to get them going. We had 97*high, 80*low, temps last week and now we're seeing 75*high, 60*low, temperatures.:confused:

Thanks for the post AXE, seems like not too many people have much to say about the WG thread. After lawnsite re-orginized the LHCSsite, there hasn't been as many people floating around the Landscaping section so I stuck this thread here. I might end up having the Mods move this thread to the Pic forum of Lawnsite.

I always welcome comments and constructive criticism. To me gardening and landscaping have an Artistic element to it, and to me, art is just one persons opinion/reality, so all opinions are valid and no body is exactly right or wrong.

[Whitey4]

Looks sweet bro! My veggie garden is much smaller, but I did throw 4 corn stalks in this year to see what happens. My tomato plants generally get to about 8 foot. I cage them to 5 foot, then run a sort of trellis over the top to keep them from collapse.

I'm big on mild to hot pepper plants myself. Too many earwigs here for me to grow lettuce, but them BLT's, I could live on those sandwiches!

Homemade bacon? How the heck do you do that?

[White Gardens]

I'm big on mild to hot pepper plants myself.

Homemade bacon? How the heck do you do that?

You salt cure the cut of pork (belly section), and then do a cold smoke for 24 hours or so.

Best way I've ever seen was Alton Brown (Good Eats), take an old locker section with two lockers. One side had a hot plate, tuna can with hardwood saw dust in it. He then took a 4 inch flexible flexible duct hose with a computer fan and ran the smoke through about 4 feet of the hose and piped it into the second locker.

The long section of hose allowed the air/smoke to cool down before reaching the second chamber/locker.

Or, find someone who has a smoke house. There is a couple of guys around here once a year, collect meats from people and smoke it for them. Much easier when someone has the set-up.

I've got 10 Melrose pepper plants. The sweetest pepper I've ever found. I've also got a serrano, and a cayenne pepper plant this year.

[Whitey4]

This was the first time I attempted to grow any corn, and at that, it is a feeble experiment, with only 4 plants. It was a spur of the moment idea, as these plants were outside the local supermarket for a lousy 2 bucks...

So, after doing some reading, I figure I should hand pollinate the silks once they appear. Next year I will do it right, but in the meantime... do you try to hand pollinate anything? The bees seem to be doing a good job on my cukes and zucchini, but I figure to hand pollinate the corn and see what happens. Do you have any silks yet? Mine are at the 8 leaf stage with tassels. Don't even know what variety they are.

[White Gardens]

No, I don't have to do any hand pollinating. Luckily in the rural environment that I am in, we have plenty of pollinators. Unfortunately the J. Beetle will do some pollinating as it destroys plants, and we've got plenty of them.

That kinda makes me chuckle a little when I here of people buying already growing sweet corn, and occasionally you see someone selling them in Bloomington. It's just bred into me as a farm-boy that you poke a hole and stick a corn kernel in the ground.

The odds of a good crop out of 4 plants isn't very good, even if you hand pollinate. Corn pollinates mainly from gravity. If you go out during a light breeze you can see the pollen cloud fall from the tassels. A grain of pollen must hit each individual silk in order to form a kernel of corn. It's got to stink living in a large metro area and having lack of pollinators in the city. So you'll probably have to hand pollinate. I would go out on an extremely calm day, and either break or bend the tassel closer to the silks and shake it.

Next year (and I know you have a micro-garden) you could actually clump grow 3-4 plants in the same hole and do four clumps and you might have better results. There has been studies on clump growing sorghum,(rather than rows) and it increased the yields by 35% or so. Corn didn't yield more than 5% increase in clumps, but you might be able to get good results and save room. The clumps also helped keep the tillers from forming.

Don't worry Whitey, I'll send you some good seeds to try next year.

You might also try the "three sisters" too. Native Americans grew corn, with a pole bean climbing them and a squash on the ground. The squash acts like a mulch, the pole beans have a place to climb, and the beans fix nitrogen for the corn. In your case, you could do a bush cucumber that doesn't grow too big instead of squash.

In my garden I have 6 rows, 30 inch rows and 10 inch spacing. I probably could have planted them in 6-8 inch spacings, but I over-planted my corn last year and had bad results so I'm a little gun-shy. I also had to pull about 2-3 tillers(suckers) growing at the base of each plant and pull of 1-2 extra ears on each stalk. I'm trying to make sure the energy goes into one ear.

2 rows are a Sun gold variety- short in height, short growing season (60 days), and I'll have ears to eat in about 5 days. Heard it's not very good though, but we'll see.

2 rows are an Illini Supersweet. It's the tallest so far at 7 feet. Short-Mid length in growing season at 80 days. Has tassels and silks just starting to show.

The last two rows are an Ambrosia. Med-Long season at 100 days, but already at the same maturity of the Supersweet (go figure). Everyone raves about the Ambrosia and is the most popular variety grown around here.

Ultimately the more stalks you get the better odds are for producing ears in the garden. Unfortunately sweet corn can give you mixed result, even in the farm fields. I always figure 15%-25% loss. Luckily, living in the Midwest, even if my crop is junk, I can go to about 20 different sweet corn stands and pick up farmer grown. Not as good as the garden will produce, but way better than store bought.

Dang Whitey, you got me on a rant about corn.:hammerhead:

[Whitey4]

No, I don't have to do any hand pollinating. Luckily in the rural environment that I am in, we have plenty of pollinators. Unfortunately the J. Beetle will do some pollinating as it destroys plants, and we've got plenty of them.

That kinda makes me chuckle a little when I here of people buying already growing sweet corn, and occasionally you see someone selling them in Bloomington. It's just bred into me as a farm-boy that you poke a hole and stick a corn kernel in the ground.

The odds of a good crop out of 4 plants isn't very good, even if you hand pollinate. Corn pollinates mainly from gravity. If you go out during a light breeze you can see the pollen cloud fall from the tassels. A grain of pollen must hit each individual silk in order to form a kernel of corn. It's got to stink living in a large metro area and having lack of pollinators in the city. So you'll probably have to hand pollinate. I would go out on an extremely calm day, and either break or bend the tassel closer to the silks and shake it.

Next year (and I know you have a micro-garden) you could actually clump grow 3-4 plants in the same hole and do four clumps and you might have better results. There has been studies on clump growing sorghum,(rather than rows) and it increased the yields by 35% or so. Corn didn't yield more than 5% increase in clumps, but you might be able to get good results and save room. The clumps also helped keep the tillers from forming.

Don't worry Whitey, I'll send you some good seeds to try next year.

You might also try the "three sisters" too. Native Americans grew corn, with a pole bean climbing them and a squash on the ground. The squash acts like a mulch, the pole beans have a place to climb, and the beans fix nitrogen for the corn. In your case, you could do a bush cucumber that doesn't grow too big instead of squash.

In my garden I have 6 rows, 30 inch rows and 10 inch spacing. I probably could have planted them in 6-8 inch spacings, but I over-planted my corn last year and had bad results so I'm a little gun-shy. I also had to pull about 2-3 tillers(suckers) growing at the base of each plant and pull of 1-2 extra ears on each stalk. I'm trying to make sure the energy goes into one ear.

2 rows are a Sun gold variety- short in height, short growing season (60 days), and I'll have ears to eat in about 5 days. Heard it's not very good though, but we'll see.

2 rows are an Illini Supersweet. It's the tallest so far at 7 feet. Short-Mid length in growing season at 80 days. Has tassels and silks just starting to show.

The last two rows are an Ambrosia. Med-Long season at 100 days, but already at the same maturity of the Supersweet (go figure). Everyone raves about the Ambrosia and is the most popular variety grown around here.

Ultimately the more stalks you get the better odds are for producing ears in the garden. Unfortunately sweet corn can give you mixed result, even in the farm fields. I always figure 15%-25% loss. Luckily, living in the Midwest, even if my crop is junk, I can go to about 20 different sweet corn stands and pick up farmer grown. Not as good as the garden will produce, but way better than store bought.

Dang Whitey, you got me on a rant about corn.:hammerhead:

Pretty good rant, as rants go! :laugh:

From my readings.... they say forget the suckers, they won't hurt yield... mind you, just reading stuff on the net from a myriad of sources.

I also read that different varieties should not be planted together, as cross pollination can result in lower quality and in some cases, less sweet corn that what might be expected, like the super sweets.

I've had some of my hot pepper plants cross pollinate, and the hybrid variety was only evident in the next generation of harvested seed... and resulted in lower yields, although some of the hybrid peppers were interesting.... I have this very rare pepper... called a Calico, similar to Bolivian Rainbows, cross pollinate with a Habenero. Poor fruit production from the hybrid seeds, but it did learn me some about plant spacing... those Calico seeds are rare, and I want to keep a pure strain going.

Again, just stuff I read, so I'm certainly not saying anything but what a parrot might!

[Whitey4]

PS: If I get just two or three ears, good ones, I figure it's a successful experiment!

[White Gardens]

Pretty good rant, as rants go! :laugh:

From my readings.... they say forget the suckers, they won't hurt yield...

cross pollination can result in lower quality and in some cases, less sweet corn that what might be expected.

those Calico seeds are rare, and I want to keep a pure strain going.



I've always been told to at least get rid of the suckers. This year I've made more of an effort to take care of each plant instead of the whole crop. So far removing the suckers has seemed to pay off as the ears on my second two varieties seem way larger than they ever have in the past. I don't know if there is a direct correlation, as my spacing is also better this year too. I really don't know for sure, but my spidy senses told me to pull the suckers.

I've never notice any difference in the initial yield from cross pollination. I would suspect (such in your case with the Calico pepper) that you would see dramatic results in the crop of the first generation planted after the initial cross.

I was also hoping that my varieties were far enough apart to help prevent cross-pollination, but that probably didn't happen.

[Whitey4]

I've always been told to at least get rid of the suckers. This year I've made more of an effort to take care of each plant instead of the whole crop. So far removing the suckers has seemed to pay off as the ears on my second two varieties seem way larger than they ever have in the past. I don't know if there is a direct correlation, as my spacing is also better this year too. I really don't know for sure, but my spidy senses told me to pull the suckers.

I've never notice any difference in the initial yield from cross pollination. I would suspect (such in your case with the Calico pepper) that you would see dramatic results in the crop of the first generation planted after the initial cross.

I was also hoping that my varieties were far enough apart to help prevent cross-pollination, but that probably didn't happen.

Again, just from reading, the super sweets "they" say can be less sweet if they get cross pollinated. Cross pollination won't mean lower yields, just less sweet corn from varities like the super sweet. I haven't read that sucker removal can't hurt anything, just that is makes no diff, so if you think it helps, I'll go with that and remove them.

Yup, the cross pollinated pepper plants had no visable signs of having been cross pollinated, it only showed up in the next generation. The bummer there was that there was no way to tell which plant strains were comprimised until the plants fruited. No tell tale signs based on leave development or growth, etc. The first sign was slightly fewer flowers, but even that wasn't a good indicator, as flower drop with no fruit was the real yield killer, aside from the fact the fruit itself was not what I wanted from this very unique hot pepper strain.

This year my Calicos are well away from my other pepper plants.... you like hot peppers? These are not killer hot... hot but a wonderful flavor. I've had some jalepenos that were much hotter... maybe a seed swap next year? Some of my Calico seeds for your corn? They are tropicals.... so if you want yield, you need to start them in a controlled environment, they like heat and sun. Sow them like corn.... and get nuthin. You might get some peppers, but the seeds won't be developed enough to plant the following year.


ok.... stupid Q.... are those tinny little hairs the beginning of silk on my corn? The plants are about 3 foot now... tassels, some fine hairs at the nodes, but nothing else I can observe as yet. I'm thinkin I'm gonna get some of the tiny corns in Chinese food...! :laugh:

[White Gardens]

(A.) Again, just from reading, the super sweets "they" say can be less sweet if they get cross pollinated. Cross pollination won't mean lower yields, just less sweet corn from varities like the super sweet. I haven't read that sucker removal can't hurt anything, just that is makes no diff, so if you think it helps, I'll go with that and remove them.

(B.) This year my Calicos are well away from my other pepper plants.... you like hot peppers? These are not killer hot... hot but a wonderful flavor. I've had some jalepenos that were much hotter... maybe a seed swap next year? Some of my Calico seeds for your corn? They are tropicals.... so if you want yield, you need to start them in a controlled environment, they like heat and sun. Sow them like corn.... and get nuthin. You might get some peppers, but the seeds won't be developed enough to plant the following year.


(C.) ok.... stupid Q.... are those tinny little hairs the beginning of silk on my corn? The plants are about 3 foot now... tassels, some fine hairs at the nodes, but nothing else I can observe as yet. I'm thinkin I'm gonna get some of the tiny corns in Chinese food...! :laugh:

A.) To me, in the garden especially, I feel that too much energy gets expended into the suckers. About the time the suckers are using energy to tassel and produce baby corn, then the main ear on the corn is just starting to mature or "fill" out as my grandfather used to say. Sometimes I wonder if the suckers interfere with pollination if they are as tall as the ears that are on the main stalk.

I grew up with field sweet corn. Usually 6-8 rows, about 60 to 100 yards long. Always planted on the edge of the corn field, so it always received the same treatment as the field corn. It isn't nearly as sweet or tender as the corn you yield from the garden. My scale is; 2 for store bought, 7 for farmer grown, and 10 for the garden grown sweet corn. So when it comes down to it, if my super-sweet variety isn't as sweet, then it's negligible to what flavor you achieve. It's also kinda laughable now that field corn is round-up ready, and you can't spray the sweetcorn like they used to with a selective herbicide. The crop services are now coming in and hand spraying the patches to not kill the sweet corn. My dad has just about given up, especially when the dear and raccoons go after it.

B.) I love hot peppers. I used to work at a fusion cooking restaurant and fell in love with the Serrano pepper. Not too hot after taking out the seeds and pith out, and the "green" heat flavor is phenomenal. We'll definitively have to do a seed swap. Most of my pepper plants are bought at 4-6 inches in height from one of the local nurseries, so I don't direct sow pepper plants. The only things I directly sow are beans, corn, potatoe eyes, lettuce, and radishes. The onions, tomatoes, pepper, and cucumbers are all established plants. I have a grow light in the basement and a hand made cold frame to help harden them off for the out doors. The cold frame is pretty cool, I'll have to get it set up again and take pics. It's made from old windows and has an automatic opener for the center panel.

Last year was a bad year as the temps were too low to really ripen my peppers. I'm afraid the same thing might happen this year too.:hammerhead:

C.) Yes, those are the silks. They'll get bigger and bigger as the silks grow outward and the ear gets bigger. The silks will do their thing and then wilt to a brown color. After that happens you'll have about 2-4 weeks before the kernels fill out completely. To figure out if the ears are ready to harvest, pull back a little of the husk on the ear and take a look at the kernels at the end of the ear to see if they are yellow and full (unless it's a white variety). Don't pull too much back as you can push the husk back over if it's still not mature.

Dang, so much talk about sweetcorn makes me want to do a midnight raid on the garden. :laugh:

[Whitey4]

These Calicos are a custom engineered hybrid... they were being shown at an arboretum here, designed by some specialty seed outfit near the Hamptons. At the end of the season, a friend of mine saw them thrown into a compost heap at the arboretum. He swiped a few peppers and saved some seeds. The arboretum people had no problem with that, but I wonder if the seed company would be happy about it... in any case...

It's considered an ornamental, but does have a nice yield. Purplish leaves, dark puprle fruit, about an inch long, and they get "streaked" as they ripen... hence the name, like a calico cat. They do pretty well in 12" pots, but the bigger the pot, the better.

Just this morning, I can see the first ear of corn developing. :cool2:

[White Gardens]

Here's some pics of this years feeding and mating season. I really almost compare it to a swarm of locust that come year after year after year.........

Up close pics are a Rose Of Sharon. The poor thing doesn't have a chance to bloom.

The two, almost defoliated trees are cherry trees.

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[White Gardens]

This is of my first larger/detailed install done 2 years ago.

Here is the link to the original pics of the property when I first started.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=231121

The HO had gotten behind on maintenance and called me back to do some work. I should have taken some before pics, but didn't think it was going to be as involved as it turned out.

In the back yard was the main priority. The end of the walkway was overgrown with brush so I cut out about 2 yards of weed trees and weeds along the fence in the backyard. Also in the back was a playground area. The area also had 45 feet of 6 X 6 pressure treated lumber retaining the dirt in the playground. The area also had about 400 square feet of landscape fabric. The roots from the Maple trees had anchored it to the ground, so it was horrible ripping up. Luckily it came up in sections and not pieces.

The landscape timbers were installed correctly, so they were a bear to get out of the ground. I used a 4 foot tire iron with a brick for a fulcrum point. The 6 X 6's were one on top of the other, nailed together with 10 inch spikes, overlapped, and had 3/4 inch, 4 foot long pieces of re-bar anchoring them to the ground.

I then tilled and graded the area, pulling large surface roots from the trees, and then laid a pallet of sod. The back yard isn't perfect, but he wanted it to be semi-temporary as he wants to add on to the back of the house and bury the utility lines. So ultimately it isn't a perfect grade/sod job. I also added in the Hostas around the edges. They came in 5 gallon pots.

The rest of the yard, including the front got a pruning/mulch/weeding/ and hedge trimming.

[White Gardens]

Here is the pics of the work done around the 4th of July. Took me 5 days total, with a couple of short days.

I tried to set the pics up in succession as if you were walking to the front to the back and to the front again.

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[White Gardens]

More Pics.

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[White Gardens]

And the final pics.

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[White Gardens]

This house was built around 1860 or so.

The original owner owned horses and one of them won the worlds fair around 1910. (I need to get exact numbers.)

I've done reasearch around the area at other properties that are as old.

Here is the designs.

The ledge with the two posts are actually used to mount a horse. The two post has rings in them to tie your horse to. The concrete work was done around 1910 which falls in line with other farmsteads in the area.

The 2 tier patio is going to be the biggest part along with the paver sidewalk. I'll have more pics of that area in a couple of days.

Last pic is of the side. That's the one that I might need some input on.

More pics to come. This is a big project. The HO has been burned by previous landscapers. I've already secured this property with my maintenance schedule, so it's a matter of when, not if.

All input is appreciated, please feel free to critique.


Thumbs Up

[White Gardens]

Picture problem. I'll have them soon.

[White Gardens]

Figured it out.

Here are the before pics.

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[White Gardens]

Here is my design idea.

Feel free to criticize, constructively of course.

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[White Gardens]

Another Design.

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[White Gardens]

Another view, one more and I should be done.

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[Humble Earth Mover]

Is this the design you were trying to estimate the stone for? Looks like more than 20 SF! :)

I think the second tier on the patio is pointless. (Nice dog by the way) It's not usable space and it's too big to be a step. I would take the extra square footage of wall block and use it to build a nice seat wall on the upper patio and do a nice set of radius steps that descend into the yard.

I also don't quite understand the walkway leading into that little wall with the concrete things on top. What is that area currently used for? It looks like it's a walkway that steps down into the yard.....why block it with a wall?

I think the plantings need more evergreen support. Hosta gives you about 4 months of show and that's it. Until the hydrangeas and hostas push, you have a pretty baron area with just the GM boxwoods. I would maybe wrap the corner with some broadleaf evergreens like Otto Luken or Pieris. Maybe wrap some helleri holly in front of the dogwood with the annuals tucked in behind.

The images as you show them are not unified to me. They seem disjointed in both style and materials, but that's partly to do with that sucky ProLandscape program you are using. (sorry that was harsh) A plan view of the overall space would show a lot more of the intended unity. Are you taking out the basketweave brick walkway area?

When do you meet the client to present the design? Hope I didn't rip it apart too much. Without criticism you'll never grow.

[White Gardens]

Oh no, great reply.

We have discussed the idea of having more winter interest on the side of the house.

I've also thought about the seating wall, but went with this idea first. I'm going to submit the designs and then get some good input from the HO.

The plans are mainly just conceptual. Final plant design will probably happen closer to the project. I agree though, it would be a bare area.

My only thoughts on this project is that I'm trying to stay in the 1860's style of gardening, which really didn't include too many evergreens.

The ledge with the two pillars is a place to hitch your horse and dismount. The original concrete pillars, with rings, and ledge were installed around 1910 or so. There is another section on the other side of the property with the same set-up with a walkway leading to it also. I'll get more pics soon.

The basket weave patio is going to be pulled up and re-done. There is also about 300 square feet of old road pavers that they want me to use also. So my main problem is finding a wall block to either match or contrast with the pavers.

My other issue is also using a paver for the rest of the sidewalks. I've come up with a cobbled clay paver from Whitacre.

Here is a couple pics of a historic property similar to the one I'm working on. I'm getting some of my ideas from it.

The first pic is of the horse hitching post and ledge. One of the pics is also of a prickly pear cactus. You don't see too much of that around. The stone pillars also match the ones at the property I work on. Almost the exact same form too.

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[lawnMaster5000]

Would a natural dry stack wall be within budget in place of the Segmental Walls?

I think the Whitacre paver choices will work nicely depending on what you do with the walls.

[White Gardens]

Would a natural dry stack wall be within budget in place of the Segmental Walls?

I think the Whitacre paver choices will work nicely depending on what you do with the walls.

I've got a couple of designs with a dry-stacked style wall. But, If I went that route, I would end up mortaring between the courses.

The only problem I see with the irregular old-world block is that it's not going to match the paver side-walk. I think the side-walk would look too clean, and the wall will look to rough.(If that makes sense)

But it might work well together, another option to consider.

[Humble Earth Mover]

I think you would be better off with natural stone if you are trying to keep with the period of the house. Buff colored SRW walls maintain no true authenticity and not matter what you do, will never look like they've always been there. Go with the clay paver or brick and possibly some flagstone. Stacked stone will not clash with either.

I say keep the hardscape materials more classic and do whatever you want with the plantings. Giving them 4 season interest will mean more to the HO than having 4 months of a landscape that may or may not be authentic to the time period. Holly would be a good choice. Either traditional holly varieties, or newer ones like Red Beauty, Dragon Lady, Winterberry or Inkberry Shamrock.

Whatever you do....please don't put those antique hitching posts atop a SRW wall. That would be an injustice.

[White Gardens]

Whatever you do....please don't put those antique hitching posts atop a SRW wall. That would be an injustice.


We'll see how it goes. If the concrete posts don't stay then I might push for more of an ornate pole with a horse-head and ring similar to the one in the pics I posted last night.

It's funny how most of your suggestions are what were my original ideas, such as just steps and a landing for the patio, and a few extra evergreens.

Ultimately the HO is the final decider, I will just try to persuade her one way or another.

[Whitey4]

I've never done any historically significant homes, so I am obviously shooting from the hip... but modern stone would look out of place here I think. I've stacked some natural stone walls, and given the architecture and period of the house, I would push hard for something that would be more period appropriate, less modern, more rustic.

From what I've seen of you work, I know whatever you do will look great in the end, but modern stacked stone walls do little for me here. That color isn't right, and even if you go with modern stone, there are choices that would look more rustic than what you used in this concept.

The stepping stones in that one pic you posted (the one that appears to block the walkway) was functional.... get off the horse and onto a raised platform that would then lead to a walkway to the house, with a nearby post for hitching the horse. Those big stone blocks work fine for that, but a raised paver/block platform just doesn't fit.

Sure wish I had a few jobs like this one I could play with design-wise... good luck!

[White Gardens]

Thanks for all the input guys.

It's a pretty neat feeling to be able to work on a home with historical significance. It's an even better feeling to know that I've beet out 4 other scapers for this work. (they just didn't perform other services very well to earn the trust of the HO)

I think I'm going back to the old-world stone and wall for this one. I originally designed some images with that type of stone in it, but sometimes I either second guess myself, or want to "see" what it would look like with a more modern materials. Thank you guys for pointing me back in the right direction.

With the raised ledge, I might be a little high in the pics. It might actually be more towards step height when it's finished so it doesn't look to out of place.

I'll also try to take more pics of the property itself so you guys can get a feel for the whole project.

I'll post more images later today, I'm going to tweak a few designs before I give them to the HO.

It's been more of a roller coaster ride business wise this year, so having this job towards the end of the season would be tremendous. This job is big, in labor and sales figures. It's one of those jobs that can potentially send my biz into the next level and help me break the glass ceiling as a sole proprietor. If the HO goes with the whole project all at once, then I'm thinking I can get it done (with a few part-time helpers) within 5 weeks, and that's including Murphy's law.

Here's a short list of the numbers.

375 feet of sidewalk, removed, then pavers put in.
God knows how many loads of old-sidewalk removed.
60-70 tons of pack-fill.
5 tons base sand
Lots of of parametric sand.
about 40 bags of mortar for the walls and patio if I go for the dry-stacked look.

[White Gardens]

Changes............

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[White Gardens]

So, after looking at the second pic of the patio, I might try to move the steps and landing to the right in order to semi-line up with the paver sidewalk.

My only thoughts about the two-tier, or second step was to keep it as open as possible to walk up as they park side by side in that spot. I'm afraid if I move the steps over, it might not have a good feel to the entrance.

[davis45]

I hate to jump in the middle of a different conversation here. But, going back a couple pages to the stone beds. You said you just spray the grass and lay fabric on top of the grass? I have always removed all the sod, have I been wasting my time, is it just as effective to spray the grass and go over it?

[White Gardens]

I hate to jump in the middle of a different conversation here. But, going back a couple pages to the stone beds. You said you just spray the grass and lay fabric on top of the grass? I have always removed all the sod, have I been wasting my time, is it just as effective to spray the grass and go over it?

It all depends on the situation. Regardless, I always come in and spray the area first before I get started on grading. It's usually 3-5 days after at that point I do my grading. If I need to, I remove the sod, if I don't have to, then I won't.

It all depends on the planting too. If the soil needs to be turned or amended, then of course I remove the sod. If it's a strait run of rock, no planting, grade looks good, then I leave the sod.

[White Gardens]

This is the last image that I'm going to do. I meet with the HO today and I should be able to just go back and tweak them.

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[Whitey4]

Pic #1 of post 76.... that still looks like a wall in front of a walkway. Is it a platform for dismounting from a horse, or a small retaining wall?

[White Gardens]

Pic #1 of post 76.... that still looks like a wall in front of a walkway. Is it a platform for dismounting from a horse, or a small retaining wall?

In this situation it's both. It's main purpose was to be a ledge for dismounting your horse, or dismounting a wagon/carriage.

Post #69, picture #1 is an example of one in the area that was built on flat ground.

[Whitey4]

In this situation it's both. It's main purpose was to be a ledge for dismounting your horse, or dismounting a wagon/carriage.

Post #69, picture #1 is an example of one in the area that was built on flat ground.

Gotchya... will that wall be just a wall, or will there be some matching pavers just behind it, like a platform? In other words, more than a wall, a very small patio/dismounting platform behind the wall that would graduate into the walkway? I think that would work nicely when approaching that structure from the house, as opposed to the opposite view from the lawn that you have there.

Post 69 pic 1 DOES look like a dismounting structure, while a retaining wall without some matching pavers of some kind behind it would not, in my mind's eye. It would not have to be large... just large enough for the ladies dressed from that period (long dresses) to land their feet on stone, and not mud or another less stable surface.

I like the change for the stairway angled more towards that walkway a lot. Works a lot better for me, anyways. Visually, and from a practical standpoint... I like that change.

I also like the change in wall material a lot.

What is he HO's opinion? Do they like the idea of keeping within the period of the house?... or did they want to go for a more modern look, and as I and others have said, an idea we aren't crazy about.

I'm sitting here drooling.... maybe some day I can land a design like this one... you got a gem here.

[A-Land]

Why do you like to plant in groups of two?

I always use three or more.

I'd also like to see you add some flowers that bloom at different times of year.

[White Gardens]

Gotchya... will that wall be just a wall, or will there be some matching pavers just behind it, like a platform? In other words, more than a wall, a very small patio/dismounting platform behind the wall that would graduate into the walkway? I think that would work nicely when approaching that structure from the house, as opposed to the opposite view from the lawn that you have there.

Post 69 pic 1 DOES look like a dismounting structure, while a retaining wall without some matching pavers of some kind behind it would not, in my mind's eye. It would not have to be large... just large enough for the ladies dressed from that period (long dresses) to land their feet on stone, and not mud or another less stable surface.

I like the change for the stairway angled more towards that walkway a lot. Works a lot better for me, anyways. Visually, and from a practical standpoint... I like that change.

I also like the change in wall material a lot.

What is he HO's opinion? Do they like the idea of keeping within the period of the house?... or did they want to go for a more modern look, and as I and others have said, an idea we aren't crazy about.

I'm sitting here drooling.... maybe some day I can land a design like this one... you got a gem here.

Thanks Whitey, it is a gem, not only because it is a property with local history, but also in the fact the HO is great to work with on many levels.

Before meeting with the HO I spent 2 hours looking for pics of the property at the local library. I found a family picture of the the original owners (creepy) and also a pic of the property at a distance that was taken in 1901 (me thinks going by the stamp on the pic). The property was originally a small Stock Yard, and the owner raised a specific breed of horses.

The pics didn't show much. The distance was too far away, and from what I can tell, there wasn't much for trees or plants around the property.

I've been racking my brain on how to do the landing for the walls, and depending on materials, I'll probably build a 3 foot wide platform even with the height of the wall, just behind it.

The HO decide to go with more of a formed, but tumbled block similar to the design in post #65, pic #1. She likes the balance between old and new with that style of block.

The conclusion I've come to about materials is that I really don't think I can go wrong with anything I use. What I mean about that is the house was built around 1860. Since then it seems that every 50 years or so, something was done to the house. I can't find any evidence locally that they used flagstone block for dismounting, or even around the property. The only place I've found Flagstone used in construction is where I grew up west of here. There is an old barn built in 1824 that used a dry-laid flagstone foundation. After that era I don't see it used anywhere else. The one thing that keeps coming up is that around 1900- 1910, locally everyone started using concrete for their hitching posts and landings. And I think these landings and side-walks were done around that period, as the name of the original owner is stamped in the landing area.

Another thing that keeps coming up is that people in the area generally moved their houses when they re-located (:hammerhead:). The house on this property is actually 2 different houses, along with an addition, and an added garage.

So what do I do ?? In one respect I feel I should go back to concrete, as that seemed to be the norm around here. So to find balance, I think a block wall will look OK, but not my first choice.

Ultimately, regardless of what material is used, I want to keep the basic theme or feel of the property without doing an injustice. The only other theme I could work with is that the property is planted in more of a Victorian style currently, and I want to run with that, adding a few more beds on the fence line and maybe a few statuaries and seating areas.

I might be able to get them talk into some low-voltage lamp posts too.

[White Gardens]

Why do you like to plant in groups of two?

I always use three or odd numbers, whatever works.

I'd also like to see you add some flowers that bloom at different times of year.

The designs are just conceptual. I generally like groups of three or odd numbers. On this property I'll be going more Victorian style, so it will do more with plant groupings that you won't be able to tell how many are actually planted.

As for the different bloom times, I'll be working on that. Last year I planted 250 tulips around the fence line to help with spring blooming. This HO has been through 4 different scapers through the years. She has stated that so far I'm the best. So, hopefully I keep this account for a very long time, and can add and subtract plants every year to help fill in color.
.

[White Gardens]

I might try to post some pics of the entire property this evening if I have a chance.

I need to get out of the house right now though, I've got a small job to get done the next couple of days, and it will help take my mind off the bigger project.

The boy didn't sleep too well last night, and it's taking forever to wake up.

[Whitey4]

I gave this more thought... and basically, what bothered me was the abrupt change from what looks like a brick walkway to the landing platform, and then using a very different stone for the landing wall and the step halfway up the walk.

I think I might want to go with all matching brick right to the landing, including that one step. Then, if I were to use another stone for the landing wall, I would also use that same stone for the area one would step onto when dismounting. In other words, use a different stone for the landing wall, but use matching pavers (matched to the wall stone) for a rectangular or semi-circle landing platform, or small patio, if you get my drift.

Concrete may be historically correct, because the house has had many reno's and upgrades, but that is one thing that just doesn't excite me. While concrete may be historically correct, so would going back to previous construction materials be as well.

Understand, my opinion is more from that of my preferences "if I owned this house" sort of thing. I would want more retro, older period construction and materials in terms of the design. Easy for me to say... I don't have to please the HO!

Thanks for posting this... it's interesting, and no doubt, I am learning things along the way too. Kudos to you for the research.... only a dedicated man would do as much. I hope the HO appreciated that sort of attention to detail and effort.

[White Gardens]

I think the biggest problem with this project is trying to utilize what materials are available to me. The smaller hardscaping jobs I've done really have shown me how hard it is to use 3 different products from 3 different companies and then try to make it all match.

Originally, Whitacre made a clay wall block that matched the pavers, but they quit making it a couple of years ago. That would have made life much easier when it comes to matching it all up.

I receive my hard-goods from a local landscaping and home building stone supply company. They are the easiest to work with and I can have everything delivered on site and they have a spider to unload it for me.

My only other option is to try and locate dealers and have the material shipped in, but then costs will start to soar, and I will need the means to load-unload the materials, and I don't want to deal with a large skid steer for this project when I don't need to.

Regardless Whitey, you feel my pain on this one. A lot of those little details will get worked out once I figure out the exact materials that will be involve, and I also figure out how tall the ledge and step will be.

I do appreciate your opinions Whitey (and everyone else). Don't lose any sleep over it though, leave that up to me. :laugh:. I'm also glad to know that the postings about this project are interesting to people who are following it. Sometimes I wonder if others on this site think I'm an idiot or awesome. I'm sure it could go both ways.

You've hit the nail on the head about "If it were my property". When I hand a design to a customer, I tell them, "this is what I would do, and it is only my opinion". The customer is king, so whatever they want to live with is what I'll give them.

And finally (Whew!), the HO does appreciate the effort that I have put into this project. I get some customers that are a bear to work with, but this HO is far from it. On a scale of 1-10, I give them a 9.5.

Thanks again Whitey, and anyone else who have contributed.

Right now, the ingredients for the project have been put together. It's still on the front burner but has been turned down to a simmer. Hopefully I'll have more updates for you guys sooner than later. I'm also thinking about playing with the designs a little bit, for my own reasons and the HO wants to maybe push the patio out a little more and put a "green space" in front of the patio wall to help soften it up some.

[White Gardens]

Hey,

Just had this moved to the pic forum. Hopefully I'll get a few more comments.

Keep it clean and above the belt. :laugh:

[Edzel]

Short free standing wall. (not retaining much) I used Mortar on the back half of the blocks so that the mortar won't show in the front making it look like a dry laid wall.

Everyone is welcome to comment or ask questions.

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Make sure the rain water does not get stuck in the inside corner ... i think you need a drain in the wall ... the rest is fine job.. step should be no more than 7.25 inches high..

[White Gardens]

Make sure the rain water does not get stuck in the inside corner ... i think you need a drain in the wall ... the rest is fine job.. step should be no more than 7.25 inches high..

There is a link in post #12, it shows the drainage I did on the side of the house.

Once the water hit my French Drain, (in the corner) then it drops strait down and disappears.

I don't think there was going to be anyway to put a pipe on the back-side of the wall considering the tree roots that were there.

[Edzel]

that's ok with a French drain.. do not pack the earth on the inside wall.. do use loose ¾ inch clean gravel.. this way your wall will stay dry as water will flow thru the crack..

[White Gardens]

Few random pics.

This is the property of the recent design I did. I wish I could find some more pics, I'll look around.

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[White Gardens]

A couple of pics of 1 of 5 pop-ups I did at a property this last week.


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Hey, it's Mickey Mouse

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[Edzel]

Why is the black elbow on the down pipe???

[White Gardens]

Why is the black elbow on the down pipe???

That is a simple expanding coupler, it was cocked to the side when I took the pic.

I put those in there so the HO can easily pull it out and flush it with a hose if need be. It helps to eliminate a "Y" connection and a clean-out plug.

[White Gardens]

Here's a few pics. I've slowed down the last week or so and the Mother in law was wanting some work done. I originally wasn't going to take pics, but then insisted on having a water feature, so, I figured it might turn out interesting.

First pic is the out-line of the bed, and I took my trimmer and skinned down the turf. There is a lot of large surface roots, so I felt it was going to be a nightmare to try and till the area.

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This pic is of the old-school FS66 with the yard boss tiller head. The thing is great for grading small areas, especially in soil like this where it eats it no problems. I have one tine on in this pic and I've cut a groove in my out line. It helps me get a better curve started. If I just use a shovel, it's hard to keep it looking nice.

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This pic is after the trench has been dug with a shovel.

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[White Gardens]

Rough Grade, including pulling dirt away from the Locust tree, that someone had piled around the base.

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Trench tilled out one more time with all the tines on the yard boss.

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Last pic of the evening, after I've roughly set the tub for the water feature. I got a late start yesterday afternoon, and finished around 6 p.m. I have about 3 hours in it. I'm waiting for the light shower we had this morning to burn off.

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[2brothersyardcare]

i love your work man

[White Gardens]

i love your work man

Sweet, thanks for the compliment.

I started in on it again today, but the skies have opened up and I got rained out.

I set the pond a little deeper, and me and the in-law to a trip to a couple of suppliers and picked out some neat 2 inch flag stone that will be put around the edge, similar to the copeing around a pool.

I'm going to have to cut the flagstone down to the correct size to make it look good.

I'll post more pics when I can.

[Murphy's LawnCare]

Nice work...what design program do you use? I like it.

[White Gardens]

Nice work...what design program do you use? I like it.


Pro Landscape by Drafix.

Not cheap, but does work well. I need to bite the bullet and buy a new CPU and upgrade to the current version.

After a while, some of the images get graphically heavy and my CPU starts to complain.

Some designers like the program, others don't. It works for me though. All in all, it gives the customer perspective of what things potentially can look in the end, and most designers around here are doing old-school hand drawings that don't give a clear perspective of the landscape.

[Whitey4]

I never go to this forum! Ah well...

BTW, my corn experiment looks like a failure.... the ears look good, but so far, they are practically hollow! Lots of air inside medium sized leaf ears.

No idea what you are doing around that tree....

[White Gardens]

I never go to this forum! Ah well...

BTW, my corn experiment looks like a failure.... the ears look good, but so far, they are practically hollow! Lots of air inside medium sized leaf ears.

No idea what you are doing around that tree....


Ya, I had it moved, seems like the landscaping section is starting to look like a ghost town, and I wanted to get more opinions from a larger cross-section of the Lawnsite community.

Ya, I was curious about the corn and how it was going. Your ears might look good, but it sounds like there are tons of leaves around a small ear. If the silks have died back, I'd go ahead and pick them and see what you got.

The tree; project my mother in-law wanted done. I've slowed down a bit lately (luckily had three calls today). She just wanted a bed around the tree, then decided to add a water feature. I took some more pictures earlier today of the water-fall dry stacked, so I'll try and post them later.

Thanks for the post Whitey, seems like I haven't made too many friends around here lately. I think the summer doldrums are taking a toll on everyone.

[White Gardens]

Here is some updated pics of the current project.

I didn't get started till noon today, we had 1 inch of rain yesterday afternoon. Luckily the soil is silty, and the water ran away pretty quickly.

First two pics are from the dry lay to figure my cuts and how I wanted the water fall to look in the end. The spikes are there just to keep my blocks in place until I mortared them in.

All in all, I don't like it. I'm not sure it's going to look good when it's done.

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Here is a couple after I got the coping mortared in, and I started to re-stack my block for the water fall. The water should come off the block the tubing is sitting on and fall strait into the water. I cut a drip edge on the back of the block to help make sure the water doesn't run backwards.

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[White Gardens]

Here is the pond dry-stacked and on a test run. I let my mortar set over-night before I put any real weight on it as the water feature turned out heavy.

I cut a drip edge underneath the block that the water runs off of, and all the blocks are tilted slightly forward to help any water turning backwards, to eventually fall forward.

After the test run, I pulled all the blocks to check, and sure enough all the water seemed to be moving forward.

After that, I set all the flag with block adhesive.

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[White Gardens]

Here's the final product.

I used a red-quarts flag that I cut down on the edging. The red color is more a brown color, and the neat thing was the the block had a metallic sheen to it similar to lead, or pencil lead on a sidewalk.

O.K., I think it turned out well, better than I expected. I talked the m-law into buying some ferns to go along with the grasses she had bought previously.

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[orlawncaresvc]

really nice work

[White Gardens]

really nice work

Thanks Thumbs Up

I'm my own worst critic, so the compliments help.

[White Gardens]

I went to see my sign guy last night. I needed some more lettering on the sides for the parade coming up this weekend.

I'll be setting up a booth at the local carnival, and I'll post pics of it. Hopefully they will have an internet connection again this year and I can post pics right away and kill time on Lawn-site during the day.

First pic is my guy removing the badges off the truck. I was getting sick of looking at them and they were mucking up my logo. He just took simple fishing line to get behind the badges and cut the foam, and then we used a liquid remover to eat the foam and adhesive off.

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[White Gardens]

Talked to the HO.

We are at least going to do the plantings up next to the foundation and also the section of sidewalk in that area. I'll be meeting with her next week, and I'm hoping to do one of the ledges also.

[Whitey4]

Water feature came out nice... what's up with "badges"? Was that vandalism? Or why stick something on your logo?

[White Gardens]

Water feature came out nice... what's up with "badges"? Was that vandalism? Or why stick something on your logo?

It was the stock Chevrolet , S-10, and LS logo we took off the truck. The truck was visually messy with my logo and those on there.

A lot of guys work their logos around those badges, I say take them off and you have more room for lettering.

Thanks for the compliment on the water feature. Even though it's small, it came out nice. Eventually I'm going to go get more of that flagstone I used for the feature and make a bench next to it. We looked around at some concrete benches, but we didn't like the look of them.

[gdguth]

whitegardens,

Do you do mowing besides the landscaping. What do you run? Do you know of Martin Bros in Bloomington. That is where I bought my Exmark Turf Tracer. The GM is actually my cousins husband.

[White Gardens]

whitegardens,

Do you do mowing besides the landscaping. What do you run? Do you know of Martin Bros in Bloomington. That is where I bought my Exmark Turf Tracer. The GM is actually my cousins husband.

Ha, your going to finally make me fess up to what kind of mower I have. :nono:

I use a 38 inch Simplicity Coronet. I only have 4 yards right now, so I have no need to upgrade. If I do, I might go to Simplicity's zero turn just for an upgrade and to make yards go faster.

I never did push the mowing side of the biz, the landscaping and maintenance seemed to be my niche. I will mow though, but I'm letting the lawns come to me, instead of pushing for more lawns.

My dream machine is a 62(?) Dixie Extreme. Only when I have at least 20 mow accounts minimum.

I know Martin's. I didn't realize they were an Ex-Mark dealer. I thought they mostly sold heavy equipment. I see their logo on a lot of Construction and Farm Equipment.

Where are you located at ????

[gdguth]

You could have seen Martin Equipment on Heavy Construction equipment. They are located in Goodfield. Martin Brothers is in Roanoke, Lexington, Bloomington, and a few other places. The one in Bloomington is mostly just lawn and garden and is on I beleive 51 South (Isn't that Main St) down near the old sale barn.

[gdguth]

Forget to tell you your work looks great and that sounds like that mower will do until you get more.

[STIHL GUY]

nice work

[White Gardens]

You could have seen Martin Equipment on Heavy Construction equipment. They are located in Goodfield. Martin Brothers is in Roanoke, Lexington, Bloomington, and a few other places. The one in Bloomington is mostly just lawn and garden and is on I beleive 51 South (Isn't that Main St) down near the old sale barn.

Ya, they have the JD dealer and small equipment shop out there on south main. I forgot that I went in there one time to check out the telescoping JD hedge trimmers. (Ya pretty sure it's 51, I get confused out that direction).

I go to Goodfield quite often. I get most of my block and pavers at Trinity Stone.

[White Gardens]

nice work

Thanks Stihl Guy and anyone else with the positive remarks,Thumbs Up

It's been one of those years where I wonder what the heck I'm doing. Having some positive reinforcement helps to keep me looking forward instead of quitting all together.

Lots of competition around here, hopefully I'll be able to get a better foothold in the biz next year.

[skidster32]

the pictures with the fountain, thats on hanson drive in normal right? i do tree work with the town of normal and we were working in that area today and i saw your sign. nice work man.

[White Gardens]

the pictures with the fountain, thats on hanson drive in normal right? i do tree work with the town of normal and we were working in that area today and i saw your sign. nice work man.

Hey, nice to see the local appreciation.Thumbs Up. Were you one of the guys driving the truck with the clam/claw picking up brush piles ???

I'm eventually going to do the rest of the landscaping around the house by the end of next summer.

[skidster32]

no those guys work out of public works, i work out of park maintenance, i ride around in the big silver and black tree truck. i dunno if u have ever seen it riding around.

[White Gardens]

Can't say that It stuck out in my mind if I ever seen it. I'm sure I have though.

I'm doing a booth out at Danvers Days this weekend. You are more than welcome to swing by if you want to. They have some decent music at night so it might be interesting.

Right now I'm getting my photos and poster-board together for the display.

Yes, I will be in the cheesy small town parade. :hammerhead: But it's good to do things in the community I live in.

[skidster32]

i thought about going out that way this weekend i work with a guys that lives in danvers. but if i dont keep up the good work. by the way my names rich.

[White Gardens]

Thanks Rich, hope to see you there.

[White Gardens]

Here's the booth, I'm here right now, live on location.

I'm trying one pic first before I can figure to re-size on this laptop.

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[eatonpcat]

Nice shady spot, good choice!

[White Gardens]

Nice shady spot, good choice!

Yes it is. Shade all day and some large Ash trees next to me.

Here's a couple more pics, luckily I'm right next to the sidewalk, right across the street from the fire station where they have the dinners every night.

I'll be able to grab the attention of the people who just come up and eat, but not necessarily stick around for the carnival.

Good news, picked up one small job that will pay for the booth and pics. :clapping:

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[White Gardens]

Late evening pics.

I'm bored. Luckily I've had a couple more people interested in work done. It's some previous customers, but, the booth helps me get out there in public an line these jobs up.

Overall for the second year I've done this, not too bad. I think next year I'm going to have to go to some bigger events and set up shop.

So the trees aren't ash, they are Hackberries. You don't see them very often, and these have got to be at least 150 years old.

[White Gardens]

I had a gentleman at my booth last night inquiring about a fire-pit. He said he wanted a concrete patio with the pit in the center.

So I tried to steer him into thinking about pavers. His questions were, " It needs a retaining wall, will it hold back a patio ?", and, " Won't I eventually get weeds in between the pavers."

So I started to explain to him the correct way to build a retaining wall and how to use parametric or poly sand on pavers to keep weeds growing.

He still wasn't sold.

So I busted out the laptop, hit the pic and vid forum on lawnsite and pulled up a couple of threads on jobs done by other people.

Thanks to the diligence and excellent photo work from other members, I was able to show him how well a retaining wall will work, and how patios are down.

Thanks Lawnsite and all it's members. There is no I in team. (but there is a me:laugh:)

[White Gardens]

So here is a couple of shots of the morning. There was a local community auction up here, and that helped bring in the crowd.

I've taken a lot of names and numbers from potential customers, things are looking better all the time. Luckily the spot I got this year has helped to draw more people in, instead of me going fishing to bring people in.

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[White Gardens]

Ya, 60% chance of rain, just what I want to deal with.

Hopefully my stand will stay dry. I've even contimplated not setting up today. My only fear is missing out on a couple of potential customers.

All in all, it has been a good couple of days. Even when business slows down, it makes me feel better that I am pro-active about trying to drum up business.

From what I've gathered from other people in the community is that there is a few "larger" landscaping companies that have been struggling in the area. I've had a couple of laborers come up to me saying that they have had their hours cut at the landscaping companies that they work for. I take their name and numbers, just in case I need a few extra hands the rest of this season.

With the sidewalk/patio/landscaping project I've been working on the last month or so, and with interest from a few other people, I just might need them.

I'm not set up to hire anyone, so I think I might send them to a local Temp agency and try to hire them on through them. That will help keep me from having to change around my tax info and I'll let the temp agency pay the workmans' comp, taxes, etc....

I know I can pay employees up to 600 dollars cash before I have to take out taxes, but I don't want to take the risk of someone getting injured on my job-site.

[Smallaxe]

... I take their name and numbers, just in case I need a few extra hands the rest of this season.

With the sidewalk/patio/landscaping project I've been working on the last month or so, and with interest from a few other people, I just might need them.

I'm not set up to hire anyone, so I think I might send them to a local Temp agency and try to hire them on through them. That will help keep me from having to change around my tax info and I'll let the temp agency pay the workmans' comp, taxes, etc....

I know I can pay employees up to 600 dollars cash before I have to take out taxes, but I don't want to take the risk of someone getting injured on my job-site.

They should be considered independant contractors and recieve 1099-MISC forms after $600.00. They are not considered employees when they get hired on irregularily for a project now and then.

[White Gardens]

They should be considered independant contractors and recieve 1099-MISC forms after $600.00. They are not considered employees when they get hired on irregularily for a project now and then.

Thanks for the clarification Axe. I wondered about that if they needed a 1099 or not.

I think I'm going to have to make some phone calls to some professional tax consultants to make sure I'm on the up-and-up with hiring people.

I still think the Temp agency might be the way to go though, even if I only use these people sparingly. I'm afraid that a helper might injure themselves, or some other issue arises and I'd rather have the temp agency cover those aspects rather than trying to start a whole payroll system.

[White Gardens]

So we got through Sunday. I ended up shutting down early as the skies opened up, right when the parade started.

I was hoping the wife was going to take some pics, but she ended up getting the booth tore down and protected my poster boards and such. The kids along the parade route were soaked, and were running up to vehicles to grab candy instead of picking it off the ground and puddles.

Surprisingly, there were tons of people along the route even though it was raining pretty hard.

Later, I went back up and collected my tent and tables. After that I decided to do my civic duty and used my picker-upper for mowing, and walked around for a little over an hour picking up candy wrappers, garbage and cigarette butts.

Everything was a success, now I just need the rain to go away so I can get some work done, and especially get away from Lawn-site for a while. :laugh:

[White Gardens]

So, since the one inch of rain last Sunday, another storm that dumped 3 inches in an hour the day before yesterday, and 3, 2 tenth showers, I haven't gotten much work done. Just some piddly maintenance.

I tell you what though, with all the rain this year, I should have tilled/graded/ and re-seeded the lawn. I would have had great results without watering.

What a frustrating year. I'm still on track to have an O.K. year, but not as much growth as the last two seasons.

If it's not the economy, it's the weather.

But regardless, I'm still working lots of small jobs. That's enough to keep me going.

Here is some pics of the most recent design. Any thoughts from the peanut gallery ????

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[White Gardens]

Over a hundred views in 3 hours and no opinions ???

Lets bump it up.

[Az Gardener]

I would put a small patio tree in place of the gold mop, something taller... just below the roof line with colored foliage. Here it would be a purple leaf plum or maybe a jap maple. Some vines on the columns like clematis or honeysuckle. Thats all I could add looks good.

Maybe some hanging baskets on the beam of the patio cover. Not the cheezy plastic ones, the bigger wire baskets you do with the spahgum (sp) moss.

[White Gardens]

Thanks AZ.

I might have to go over there today and take a closer look at that space with the Goldmop. I'm afraid that if anything grows taller to the roof-line, then it might come out too wide and start hanging over the driveway.

I like the hanging basket idea. I'll have to do another image with those in there to see what it looks like.

My wife also mentioned that it was lacking some color and if rock-beds are re-installed, then I might show the HO all my rock samples to help add a little different color besides the standard river-rock.

I was thinking of some barberries and spireas in front instead of the boxwoods, but I was also looking to keep it filled in during the Winter months.

Thanks. Thumbs Up

[White Gardens]

Current design, a few changes on suggestion from AZ.

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[Az Gardener]

That computer program is nice! If I were still doing design I would have to get one.

Try and loose the center hanging baskets so there are just two at each bay, can you put them on lower chains so they are not so high? I would also try some window box's on the railing in lieu of the hanging baskets to see if that looks better.

I might also just do away with that narrow strip of lawn, just make the rock bed bigger and give those junipers some room to spread. and maybe bring a brick walkway out to the street from the front door with a slight bend, not a runway.

Have we blown the budget yet??? I have more.

If I keep looking at these things you will be sorry you asked. And so will my wife :laugh:

[White Gardens]

That computer program is nice! If I were still doing design I would have to get one.

Try and loose the center hanging baskets so there are just two at each bay, can you put them on lower chains so they are not so high? I would also try some window box's on the railing in lieu of the hanging baskets to see if that looks better.

I might also just do away with that narrow strip of lawn, just make the rock bed bigger and give those junipers some room to spread. and maybe bring a brick walkway out to the street from the front door with a slight bend, not a runway.

Have we blown the budget yet??? I have more.

If I keep looking at these things you will be sorry you asked. And so will my wife :laugh:

:laugh::laugh: Budget, ya probably blown. I haven't figured out what that is exactly is though, but, I'm going to take a wild guess and say that it's not going to be an un-limited budget, and probably just make it look good type of budget. Such a shame.

I thought about losing the narrow strip of lawn, but, I kinda like the green space personally. Also, if you are on-site, you would probably want to keep it after looking at it.

I'm sure if I play with the program enough I could put longer chains on the baskets, but that's the only hanging basket image I have. Two would probably look better, but I wondered what three would look like, I might have to fool with it again.

There was another thread recently where two other members of lawnsite had done something similar, either with photo-shop, or a program similar to mine.

Funny thing is, everyone in my area is still doing hand drawing and other not so quality cpu designs. I like this program as I can visually put things into perspective for my customers, and they seemed to really like it after having other design work done by other designers. They also like the idea that I can do images in a quarter the time as most hand designer do the work for.

I will say, it took about 20 designs to finally figure how to make things almost perfect including shading to match each image to the environment.

Thanks AZ, I'm going to meet with the HO Tommie, I'll post more about the project after I get some input from the HO. Right now I've got about 10 irons in a fire, and I'm waiting to see which one glows the hottest.

[White Gardens]

When you look at the date it is 03, 1903 that is.

This is a pic of the farm that I currently doing bi-weekly maintenance on, and gearing up to do some landscape and hardscape installations. Yes the barn is still standing and the image of the horse is still there.

Starting on post 64 I do believe.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=272897&page=7

Here is the photo, cool stuff.

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[Smallaxe]

Cool place to work. :)

Are they keeping animals at all or is it just a house in the country?

[White Gardens]

Cool place to work. :)

Are they keeping animals at all or is it just a house in the country?

No animals. The Gentleman that lives there still hobbie farms somewhere around 120 acres only because it's in his blood. Him and his wife both grew up on farms, but moved to the area to become professionals for State-Farm Ins back in the 70's. She is from Texas, and He is from Oklahoma.

They are now both retired.

[White Gardens]

I would put a small patio tree in place of the gold mop, something taller... just below the roof line with colored foliage. Here it would be a purple leaf plum or maybe a jap maple. Some vines on the columns like clematis or honeysuckle. Thats all I could add looks good.

Maybe some hanging baskets on the beam of the patio cover. Not the cheezy plastic ones, the bigger wire baskets you do with the spahgum (sp) moss.

So the HO went with the first design in the front of the house with the gold-mops. That's the space they want done this year, and next year they are going to do the Sun-room off the the back of the house and I'll end up re-doing the wall then.

She did like the design with the hanging baskets and she wants me to put those together next spring for annuals.

Finally I've got a decent little install to do. Last year they were lined up all summer, and this year has been feast or famine.

[andyslawncare]

what design software are you using in your designs?

[White Gardens]

what design software are you using in your designs?

Pro Landscape Image Editor.

I have the planner part of the program (auto-cad) but I don't hardly use it.

[andyslawncare]

I watched all of the videos on the Pro Landscape website... How do you like the software? Looks great in the videos, and the photos that you posted look great too.

[White Gardens]

I really like the program.

Just like anything else, it took some time getting up to speed with all the capabilities of the program.

Some designers don't like Pro, but, I honestly haven't used any other programs so I can't compare it to anything else.

I wish they would package the software a little better though. Like stated before, I don't use the planner and the proposal side of the program and is almost a waste of space on my computer. It would be nice to just purchase those individually.

You can almost get the same results using photo-shop, but, Pro is specifically catered to landscape designers, so there are features that are not available on photo shop, such as the all the landscaping images. Anything else I need to do that Pro doesn't, then I use Art Weaver (free photo-shop style program) to fill in the gaps if there are any.

Ultimately, my customers love the fact that I can visually put things into perspective for them. The last thing I wanted to do as a scaper was to impose my creative will on the customer without them knowing what things were going to turn out like. With Pro, we all can agree on what will look good.

[White Gardens]

So I'm working on the project from post #138.

The husband works as a chemical applicator and drive one of these for a living. Those things are sweet as the chassis has a roll-off system so they can spread dry materials or spray liquid.

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His in-laws are also farmers and they own a 4-wheel monster truck looking floater that they spread lime and fertilizer with. So, they own an N-loader, or wheel loader to load that truck (what-ever you want to call it).

So I ask him if he has a tractor and loader on his farm that he could bring over to help pull stumps to save him money and me the hassle of renting a machine.

He had no problems bringing over one of these.

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Little overkill, but got the job done. I think he wanted an excuse to rut the front yard so it would need new sod. :laugh:

I will say though, it almost struggled for a split second, and I mean a split second, pulling a mugo pine in the before pics.

[scagmower]

Current design, a few changes on suggestion from AZ.

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how do you like the computer design and are they hard to figure out??? thanks

[andyslawncare]

You gotta love those big machines!!! My uncle has thousands of acres of farm land and its a privilege to work with him when I can because the machines are so awesome! I may just quit landscaping and start farming!! haha

That program is expensive!! Worth it?? I think it may make selling jobs easier...? What version are you running?

[White Gardens]

how do you like the computer design and are they hard to figure out??? thanks

You gotta love those big machines!!! My uncle has thousands of acres of farm land and its a privilege to work with him when I can because the machines are so awesome! I may just quit landscaping and start farming!! haha

That program is expensive!! Worth it?? I think it may make selling jobs easier...? What version are you running?


Read Post #152 on this page. That's about the best I can describe the program.

Yes it is worth it. It definitively helps to sell the job. I've picked up customers that wasn't impressed with standard designs they had done for them and the program helps but things into perspective easily so they are confident that it will turn out great in the end.

Andy, don't start farming, generally not any more money in it than Landscaping. That's the reason I didn't stay home on the farm.

[White Gardens]

So I haven't taken too many progress pics of this project only because I really didn't want to deal with the camera.

I took a few photos today of some of the quality White Gardens landscaping.

I'm on day five with two of those days being half days.

First pic is of the north side. No fabric, just the north side of the house where the HO has Some nice hostas and plants inpatients in between every year. It looked great before I chopped everything down (to fix the grade) and tore out the plastic edging. The bricks went smooth, and that side isn't so obvious so it was a good starting point to lay bricks. I needed a little practice before I went to the front.

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Second pic is of the front. In order to get my run started I had to break away concrete that was used as a restraint for the paver side-walk. Luckily I was mortaring in the brick, so I was able to repair the side-walk.

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Third pic is of the finished edging. I must say those curves look sweet. I also talked the HO into letting me turn their Dwarf Blue Spruce into a topiary. It was going to get way too tall there any way, so I just topped it and limbed it up. I think I'm also going to put a Blue Chip Juniper under it.

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Here is that last pic. The HO decided to use a rustic block for a border against the parking next to the road. I hand picked 50 feet of it. The block is very irregular and jagged so I tried to find the most square pieces, but I still had to cut most of them in order to not have large gaps when I go to butt them together. Luckily when I pulled the RR ties it left a nice trench to start with so I won't have to dig so much out.

I'll post the finish picks after the sod is laid next Weds.

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[White Gardens]

Wow, Just pulled a 12 hour day.

I laided 2 tons of rock, then proceeded to lay all the block along the drive.

It took 11 bags of Type s-mortar with re-bar.

I turned around and finished the edging, then went and got my tiller to till the areas that are going to need sod.

The forecast called for rain and I'm glad I busted tail to get all my dirt work done as the skies have just opened up.

Now, I'm relaxing :drinkup:. I'm up to 4 beers now, and feeling great, and confrontational.:laugh:

[White Gardens]

Another Quality Landscape by White Gardens. Thumbs Up

Finished up today. I woke up this morning and went over and blew out the joints of the paver sidewalk. Waited three hours for it to dry, then I installed the Poly-Sand for the paver joints. It really cleaned it up well and the HO will get a few more years out of it. I wanted to lift and re-set some of the blocks, but the main problem is that the soldier course has settled and degraded. The soldier course is set in a large concrete restrained, so by the time I would have fixed it, I could have done the same job with new pavers.

Took a few days longer than I wanted, but with Labor Day being last Mon, 2 inches of rain in the middle, and my sod not being delivered until yesterday, it stretched out a little.

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[White Gardens]

Ya !!!!!!

Finally have got the go ahead to start on the project that I posted designs for on post #64. :clapping::clapping::clapping::clapping:


The patio won't be done this year, but %90 of the sidewalk will be done, (250 feet), and one of the ledges along with doing the planting against the foundation.

This will be a great project to finish off the season........

[pitrack]

Good for you man, I bet that feels good. Post pics.

[White Gardens]

Thanks man, I will post pics.

I got a short start on it yesterday. I haven't been feeling the greatest the last couple of days, so I went out there and pulled a few weeds up next to the house and laid out a bed next to an old well they want cleaned up. Some of the existing plants up next to the house will be transplanted there.

I'm going to do a few different phases, but luckily I don't have any other jobs lined up besides my usual maintenance and mowing, so I'll be able to focus on this one. It just really eased my anxieties about end of the year cash flow.

[White Gardens]

Goal; Clean up around old well and transplant some Black-eyed Susan's and purple cone flowers around the well. Get Ho to also commit to a paver for the sidewalk.

The pics are after I was done rough grading. There was a small bed to the left with a burr oak and some hosta's, and I just connected the well area together with it.

There were large lilac branches that needed to be thinned out and there was a very large mulberry tree that had started there. Basically you couldn't see the well.

If the HO will let me, I want to salvage some planks out of the barn and re-build the top of the well.

One pic is one of the HO's tractors. 1972, 4020 John Deere. He disposed of the sod for me.

Another pic is of the barn. The HO has just kept up on it enough to keep it from rotting, and a restoration might be happening in a couple of years.

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Post #145 has a picture of the barn in 1903.

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[White Gardens]

Here's the area with mulch and plants.

The property is slowly cleaning up nicely.

The stump of the mulberry tree has pushed out a concrete pad that is next to it. When I get the mini in to rip out the old sidewalk, I might move that pad, cut the stump down short, and place the pad back against the well.

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[White Gardens]

First pic is of the outline for the paver sidewalk. I might move it back towards the house just a shade, but otherwise the HO's wanted to be able to visualize where it will be at.

The rest of the pics are of the existing sidewalk, and what will be replaced including the circle in the front of the house. I won't be going beyond the fence line right now, until I get the go-ahead to re-build the hitching ledges.

265 feet total. Probably going to be somewhere around 3.5 feet wide.

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The number #33 Whitacre cobbled clay paver on the lower left seems to be the one that will be used.

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[White Gardens]

Rest of the pics...


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[White Gardens]

So, meeting with the HO today to give her the final estimate on the paver install. It's been more of a process with this job to get it started, but, it's a lot of money, and I understand if the HO needs to be sure of the final result.

This morning I met with a gentleman who needs some drainage work around his property.

He is pushing to have it done right away.....................

I think I might have the busiest time of the year, at the end of the year. I hate it when the weather puts a deadline on me.

[White Gardens]

I've got two HO's trying to figure out what exactly they are going to do. I called them both today and turned the screws on them. I pretty much told them if they want work done, then they need to act quickly so I can finish before the first hard freeze.

I was polite, and told them that I don't like to pressure my customers, but the weather will be the biggest issue.

It's raining though, so that makes me feel better that I'm not wasting good days working.

I've got a meeting with my banker this afternoon to explore my options for buying a mini-skid. Good Stuff.

In the spirit of the rainy day, I took a pic of my neat little spot on my property. It's an annual hibiscus that I dig up every fall and put in the basement and let it go dormant. I've had it for 5 years now, and surprisingly I haven't killed it.

Around it are some white caladiums, but they are past peak and starting to wither some. Also is my purple heart plant. Around the Hibiscus is just ends of the mother plant I snapped off in the spring and stuck them in the ground. They took a while to root, but they look good now.

People walking by always so it's the best spot on my property. Not saying much though as my landscaping looks like crap.

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[White Gardens]

Finally, I've got the go ahead to do the paver sidewalk. Now I need to get the numbers together for the deposite.

Also the contract.....

Also, lining up the equipment......

Also...............

So, I'm stoked, (for lack of better terminology) and nervous to some degree. Nothing major though, just normal nerves of putting the project together.

I also went around and test drove a couple of different mini's. I've only used the toro dingo in the past and this time I wanted to try something different.

I tried a boxer, but didn't like the controls. Also the boxer they had for rental was something like the 822, and it might actually be too wide and large for the project.

I then went and tried a vermeer at sunbelt rentals. Though a smaller machine, I loved the joy-stick controls, but the machine was a little under-powered. we have a vermeer dealer nearby and I might see which ones they have available for rental. I'm sure as a dealer they might have a little better machine.

I'll keep you updated and post pics when I start. Deposit should be in hand by Thurs, and the concrete should be gone by no later than next Tues.

[White Gardens]

Went to the Vermeer Dealer this afternoon.

I drove an S600TX that they had for rental, and it is a diesel. Thumbs Up

Has more than enough power, tracks are 32 inches wide, with the bucket being 42 inches wide. I also love the joystick controls compared to the boxer with the four levers.

That will give me enough room with the tracks to not mess up my paver base, and wide enough to dig out the paver base and have a little bit wider base for the pavers, if that makes sense.

I'm excited, and on top of it the other guy who wants drainage done called today. He wants it done of course, but, he is going to have to wait now. I might be able to get it done before the first hard freeze, but I'm not betting on it.

[Stillwater]

Congrats Gardens !!

[White Gardens]

Congrats Gardens !!

Thanks Stillwater, Thumbs Up.

Hopefully I'll be getting started here real soon. The design and commitment process has dragged out, so I'm glad they came to a decision.

[White Gardens]

It's amazing how some things work out.

So, the HO was having problems imagining how the pavers will look when installed. That was the only hang-up to ordering the pavers.

She happened to be out and about and went to a local restaurant, long story short and low and behold, there was a small run of #33, #32, #30 Whitacre clay pavers. They are now ordered and she is committed to them.

I called my supplier and they confirmed this as they were able to pull the invoice and find out exactly which ones they were.

She was sold, and she was also sold on using two different colors. She went with the #33, and #32 tumbled clay paver. Those two colors look better with her property.

Man this is going to look sweet in the end.

My machine will be delivered tomorrow morning and I'm hoping to have a good chunk of sidewalk removed by the end of the day.

Man, I'm busier now than I have been all summer. One guys wants me to do a drainage project before the ground freezes and I met with the wife of a well known business owner, and she wants a small rock cleaning job done. Then there is mowing, and cleanups, and .........

I don't mind but it's funny how things work out. Doesn't look like I'm going to have any days off in the next 4 weeks unless it rains.

Pics coming tomorrow evening, check back soon. I think I'm going to do a daily post if I'm not too worn out. Thumbs Up

[Junior M]

congratulations on the new machine!

[White Gardens]

congratulations on the new machine!

Actually just a rental, I couldn't quite pull off buying a machine in time for this job.

I had found one setup with a mini, trailer, and 5 attachments for a really great deal, but the machine that came with the setup might have been under-powered for this job, but more than suitable for 90% of the work I normally do.

Regardless, I might be in a good position to buy one next spring. Thanks for the post Junior. Thumbs Up

[Junior M]

Actually just a rental, I couldn't quite pull off buying a machine in time for this job.

I had found one setup with a mini, trailer, and 5 attachments for a really great deal, but the machine that came with the setup might have been under-powered for this job, but more than suitable for 90% of the work I normally do.

Regardless, I might be in a good position to buy one next spring. Thanks for the post Junior. Thumbs Up
Oh, well alright!

Any machine is better than a shovel.

[White Gardens]

Oh, well alright!

Any machine is better than a shovel.

Wasn't trying to miss-lead anyone.

You bet, way better than a shovel, I found out very nicely today. Thumbs Up 100 feet of sidewalk, ripped out, hauled away in 3 hours.

I've found this out with a dingo before, you never know how much labor you save once you actually use a machine.

My goal officially is to now have a machine by June of next year.

[White Gardens]

Camera malfunction, no pics.:nono:

I knew there was a reason that I didn't use that piece of junk anymore.

So, here's how the day went.

Woke up at 4:30, automatically :hammerhead:. I had my BNI meeting this morning at 7:00 a.m., that I've found out actually starts by 7:15. (when everyone finally get there).

So, low and behold, the landscaper that was kicked out of the group shows up to the meeting, and apologizes to the group for his tardiness in the past couple of months.

Without going into details, and without being disrespectful, the whole situation was awkward to say the least. I'm not even sure if he realized he was no longer a member.

Once the meeting was over, I high tailed it to the job site to be there by 9:30 when the machine was being delivered.

Man was it sweet. I got to work lifting the sidewalk and proceded to load the truck. The s600tx diesel is a great machine.

Took me 30 minutes to load 2 tons. 20 minute round trip to the asphalt plant and back.

Only got three loads done though. After my first load it started raining, and so I took a long lunch. Luckily it stopped long enough in the afternoon to get two more loads done by 4:00 p.m. I'll have to show you guys pics of the crazy path I took to help minimize my ruts in the lawn.

I think we've had about an inch of rain over the course of the day, so I really don't think I'll be doing much there tomorrow. I might go back over and shoot some pics though.

That's it for now, feel free to ask questions.

Nick W.

[White Gardens]

Not much doing. We had an inch of rain last night and it was way too muddy to do anything at the site.

I did get the old steps, from a door they closed off, moved out of the way and also went ahead and broke out the section of concrete that was in front of the the old door to the basement. I wanted to do it by hand as I didn't want to damage the old concrete around the steps.


This Mini Rocks, had no problems moving the steps.
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Pic of the steps leading to the basement, the door is going to be replaced soon.
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About 100 feet of concrete removed.
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[White Gardens]

Here are pics of the lane that I am running my dump through through to get to the back side of the property. I really couldn't tell you why there isn't an entrance off the road to north side of the property.

I'm basically trying to find the best route so I'm not tracking on the lawn any more than I have to, and I didn't want to tear up the driveway around the back door. Eventually I'll go that way to lay my fill for the patio, and hopefully it's dry when I do that.

Along the path is lots of semi-forgoten equipment. Old balers, mowers, trailers, a heavy equipment trailer, tanks, etc...........

You just have to see the pics, I knew describing it wouldn't do it justice, so I took a ton of pics from the lawn to exit.

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Good Ol' Milly, always following me around and getting into my pics.

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This is the loading zone

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Lots and Lots of Golden Rod

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[White Gardens]

More Pics.

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[White Gardens]

And the last three.

Backside of the barn

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Hey, anybody need a boom truck it's for sale.....

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He's replacing it with this man-lift so he can work on the barn

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[Junior M]

Nice property there!

And I'd like to run the Vermeer, seems like everyone loves it! What are the controls like?

[White Gardens]

Nice property there!

And I'd like to run the Vermeer, seems like everyone loves it! What are the controls like?

Other than the fact the property needs cleaned up some, ya it's an awesome place. I love working there as it reminds me of the farm I grew up on.

Love the controls for the Vermeer. Two joysticks similar to a normal skid steer. I compare the feel to a Takaguchi skid.

It was the easiest one to operate out of the four I tested, including a Vermeer with a gas motor.

[Junior M]

Other than the fact the property needs cleaned up some, ya it's an awesome place. I love working there as it reminds me of the farm I grew up on.

Love the controls for the Vermeer. Two joysticks similar to a normal skid steer. I compare the feel to a Takaguchi skid.

It was the easiest one to operate out of the four I tested, including a Vermeer with a gas motor.

I was going to say it reminds me of my great grandpas place, needs cleaned up and has old equipment all over.

And I asked because I am really comfortable and can grade like no other with the controls on the Boxer walkbehinds(even better than my Dad who has been operating since he was 13) I've never been real comfortable about not being able to control each track. But I'll have to find some work for one and see if I can get a demo or rental on Vermeer..

[White Gardens]

I was going to say it reminds me of my great grandpas place, needs cleaned up and has old equipment all over.

And I asked because I am really comfortable and can grade like no other with the controls on the Boxer walkbehinds(even better than my Dad who has been operating since he was 13) I've never been real comfortable about not being able to control each track. But I'll have to find some work for one and see if I can get a demo or rental on Vermeer..

Oh, it makes the boxer and bobcat (similar individual levers for the tracks) look like childs play.

I knew for what I was doing I wanted to find the machine that was going to work the smoothest ,and that was the Vermeer. Also the dump height is one of the highest or the highest for a mini.

I still want to try a Ditch Witch though, some guys say it's better than the Vermeer, but I wouldn't think by much.

[White Gardens]

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=291863

I posted my questions about the issues I'm now having with the machine in the heavy equipment forum.

It sucks because we are going to have a dry day today and it's supposed to start raining again tonight.:hammerhead:

The only good thing I see is not much a chance for rain for the next 10 days after that, so hopefully I can move right along.

I'll post tonight on the situation.

Later........

[White Gardens]

So, after all the rain, and the break-down with the machine, I was up and running today. On Monday, when the weather was nice, I was able to piddle around and pull all the hostas that were in the existing bed around the house.

Today, after it rained most of yesterday, I was able to get in and finish removing the side walk and got about 30% of the dirt dug out for the base. I would have liked to been a little farther along, but, for the day I was pretty happy.

For someone who doesn't consider himself an operator, I think I'm doing pretty good with the machine. I do have some skills that I learned from growing up on a farm though, so it's almost second nature for me.

I was in such a tizzy to get a good chunk of work done today, so I didn't take any pics. It's supposed to rain again tomorrow, so I think I'll go out there and take some pics.

Even with all the rain, the air is cooler and dryer. On top of that, the black soil I'm working with is about the most Virgin Midwestern topsoil you could ever imagine, so luckily I've only needed 12 hours or so before I can work in it again without mucking up the place.

Pics tomorrow.

Oh, by the way, I used the machine to dig 3 graves for someone, If you really want to know the story you can P.M. me. It wasn't for anything sinister, just not sure I can post it on-line or not.

[White Gardens]

Nothing doing.

It has rained the last 2 days. I've slowly pushed my mowing accounts from Mon to Saturday, so at least tomorrow I can let the job-site dry out some before working on the grade on Sunday.

I hate working Sundays, but I've had the last two days off, and it's the end of the season. Hopefully the weather men are right and I won't see any rain until next Thursday. I'm hoping by then I'll have the base laid, compacted and started on the pavers. The shipment came in and they are sitting in my supplier's yard and paid for. I told them to wait on delivery until I'm closer to laying the pavers. I don't want them sitting on the job-site too long and in the way.

If the rain stops long enough, I might go out there to take a look at how muddy it is. Luckily the rain has been a soaker, so I shouldn't have any wash-outs. I took my rain gauge down for the year, but I'm thinking we've had at least an inch if not 1.5 inches.

[White Gardens]

I went to inspect the property today. I was hoping to be able to work on it tomorrow.

I doubt it.

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[Junior M]

I hope things dry out for you White Gardens..

[White Gardens]

I hope things dry out for you White Gardens..

Ya, me too. I'd like to start really rockin on this project, as soon as I get a groove, it starts raining.

The last time it rained I was able to go back in 24 hours after it stopped. I don't think that is going to happen this time.

Hopefully it freezes hard enough tonight that it actually dries it out some.

[Whitey4]

man, you have been getting some sweet jobs!

Oh, BTW... saw your comments in the stupid MSN article on landscapers... well done. What an idiotic article that was.

[White Gardens]

man, you have been getting some sweet jobs!

Oh, BTW... saw your comments in the stupid MSN article on landscapers... well done. What an idiotic article that was.

It was an idiotic article. I hate when people put the blame on an industry when it really comes down to the customers being responsible and informed about who they hire.

I will say on your first comment, thanks. I wish business was a little better, but, I'm still growing and I do see some major potential in where my biz will go as long as the economy keeps slogging forward through the financial mud.

The clients that I've worked with generally have gotten other opinions from other scapers, and didn't like what they had to say, or they couldn't sell their product. I guess I'm finding my niche in a market that is saturated by landscapers.

I'm not saying that I'm a unique landscaper, and my landscapes are the end all to be all, but, I do feel I have a different perspective to turn even some simple jobs into something unique and sweet :laugh:.

Thanks Whitey, Hope your feeling better.

[Whitey4]

It was an idiotic article. I hate when people put the blame on an industry when it really comes down to the customers being responsible and informed about who they hire.

I will say on your first comment, thanks. I wish business was a little better, but, I'm still growing and I do see some major potential in where my biz will go as long as the economy keeps slogging forward through the financial mud.

The clients that I've worked with generally have gotten other opinions from other scapers, and didn't like what they had to say, or they couldn't sell their product. I guess I'm finding my niche in a market that is saturated by landscapers.

I'm not saying that I'm a unique landscaper, and my landscapes are the end all to be all, but, I do feel I have a different perspective to turn even some simple jobs into something unique and sweet :laugh:.

Thanks Whitey, Hope your feeling better.



I'm hangin in... they keep cuting more dead tissue off my foot, and it just bleeds more. They should have left the frackin thing alone. that toe has been bleeding for almost 2 months now, since they took a knife to it.

I'm mostly mowing, but got a few lawn reno's this fall, two sod jobs, two seedings, and some tree installs, one small retaining wall, but it's slow.

I think you have a very good eye for design work, and obviously can talk with customers. I hate to call it selling. It's listening and responding to a customer's needs. It's that simple. Seems you ar very good at that sort of communication. When I talk to a customer, I don't sell anything. I just talk... and mostly listen. if there is a job there, I'll get it. I think you likely do it about the same way.

Keep up the great work my friend. Later.

[White Gardens]

It finally dried out enough today to get my sub-grade finished. Just in time, it's supposed to rain the next 36 hours.

It was still a little muddy this morning so I told the HO that I would cut the blocks out of the front steps. He is trying to salvage as many of the blocks as possible to fill in the foundation where the steps on the side of the porch were located.(basically they removed an extra door on the porch).

The blocks have the same form as the foundation blocks for the porch and you can't buy anything close to it, so he's trying to match up what he can and with what room he has left, he is going to make an access door. He originally was going to cut them out himself, but I need those steps gone so I can figure the grade in that area.

Enjoy the progress pics.

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[White Gardens]

And the last three pics.

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[Junior M]

Is Vermeer working with you on rental, being that its raining so much?

[White Gardens]

Is Vermeer working with you on rental, being that its raining so much?

Actually yes. Between the breakdown and multiple rains we had, it hasn't had too many hours put on it.

I called my rep the other day, and asked him if I should bring the machine back so I'm not getting charged for it sitting idle. He told me that it wasn't worth it to either have them come pick it up, or me hauling it back to Eureka. He assured me that they'll work with me on the final bill.

I was freaking out about that the other day when it rained for 4 days and we got 2.5 inches of rain. I knew that I might have the machine for 3 weeks, but I still didn't want the thing idle.

More rain tonight, tomorrow morning, then tomorrow night into Thursday.:cry:

Luckily the 10 day forecast looks good after that though. I'm hoping to have my base down by next Monday.

[White Gardens]

So, another day of working in the mud.

I went and rented an electric jack-hammer to break out the rest of the concrete steps in the front of the house. Took a little over three hours and I'm guessing there was about 3000 pounds of concrete.

Here is the Jack Hammer I used.

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It wasn't as bad as everyone makes a jack-hammer out to be. Yes, it is hard on the arms, but as long as you let the machine do the work, it wasn't too bad. I think the hardest part is moving it around as it weighs a lot.

I just about out of things to do until it dries out. Next step is to remove the broken concrete from the steps and to get a dry day to compact my sub-base.

[White Gardens]

I was able to get in to the site today and finally be able to walk around without sinking into the mud.

I piddled around and started setting grade stakes. That's turning out pretty good so far. The existing grade is pretty consistent so I don't have too many elevation changes.

The lowest spot is around the concrete steps going into the basement and I might have to pull some dirt out away from the house some, otherwise I'm going to have a hill in the sidewalk.

I'll post pics tomorrow. Things should be dried out enough to get rid of the rip-rap from the old steps out of the way and dig out a couple of spots that aren't low enough yet. Then I'll be able to finalize my grade in the front of the house.

The goal is now to have my base set and compacted by Wednsday afternoon. The next chance of rain is Thursday, and I would like to be able to lay pavers as soon as it stops.

[White Gardens]

Forgot the camera today, and it was such a nice day that I didn't want to waste any time while I have a chance to work.

So I hauled out the rip rap from the front steps. I swear there was more than 2 tons of debris in there.

I've got the grade set on the first half of the sidewalk and I'm hoping to have my sub-grade compacted and my first load of CA-6 (crushed gravel) in and compacted by the end of the day tomorrow.

[White Gardens]

I got all my grade stakes out and marked. I'm really pleased with how everything is turning out so far. The existing grade was almost exactly where it needed to be, so it was just a matter of my elevation.

Here are some pics from late day. My first load of CA-6 is coming in the morning. Somewhere around 12 tons. Originally I estimated 32 tons, but, my trench is a little wider and deeper than I originally estimated for. I might be closer to 42 when it's all said and done.

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I love the sunsets and the fall colors together. One of the reasons I love my Profession.
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The pile of rubble from the front steps. I broke all that up with a Jack Hammer.
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Center Island. It has been a thorn in my side. It held a lot of water, and might be dry enough tomorrow to grade a little more and pack it.

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[White Gardens]

Couple more pics of the day.

More Fall color

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And for any of you Office fans, " Wacker, that's what she said ". :laugh:
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[White Gardens]

Laid my fabric, 15 tons of rock across the whole run to establish half my base.

It's supposed to rain tonight so I'm glad that's done. I'm hoping that with half the base in place and compacted that any rain will run off of it.

I'll post pics tomorrow of today's activities. Right now I'm tired and need a shower..............................

[White Gardens]

So, surprisingly enough, I was able to work today. Let me give you a little update info.

So, last Wednesday, I had the 15 tons brought in. My neighbor, who is also my mechanic, helped me spread and compact it while I ran the mini moving the material. That day I was able to get a minimum of 2, no more than 5 inches compacted to be able to make water run away if it rained. Then yesterday my neighbor's basement flooded when his sump pump quit working, so I had the pleasure of helping him tear out the carpet and get the basement dried up.

So, Thursday it rained, and then Thursday night, then Friday, the Friday night into this morning. We ended up with 4 inches of rain. I think that makes a total of over 8 inches of rain for the month. I've only worked 8 days out of the last 28. Right now the 10 day forecast doesn't look the greatest.

That's it in a nutshell. Luckily the skies parted about 11 a.m. this morning and I was able to lay more base. I was spent from hauling carpet the day before so I got probably about 8 tons laid today. My fill was wet from being in the rain the last couple of days, so when I went to compact it, I was squeezing water out of the fill. Luckily I had only one spot that held water and has too much water in it to get it compacted. Hopefully we will get a streak of dry weather to dry everything up..

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This is the corner where I had water standing.

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[White Gardens]

Last pic I forgot to load. For some reason the same image is coming up twice.

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[Lawn Freak]

Looks good, atleast the rain is doing good for you on the mowing side of things. If you ever have time to get back to the mowing haha.

[White Gardens]

Looks good, atleast the rain is doing good for you on the mowing side of things. If you ever have time to get back to the mowing haha.

Ha, tell me about it. Luckily the cooler temps have slowed down the yards considerably. One of my lawns is fescue and could stand a cut, but it might wait another week. I'm also lucky that I only have a handful of lawns. I did come home early to chop the leaves around my hard maple, otherwise I didn't see another opportunity to get them mulched.

We did have the first large leaf drop from the last rain we had. A couple of customers have called for a cleanup, I might try to get those done Tues morning before noon, as their yards are small and the city hauls the debris on Weds.

My goal (taking rain into consideration), is to have a good start on the pavers next Thurs. Having the base started is my saving grace. If by some chance I get started on the pavers then, I hope to be done laying them no more than seven days from then due to the weather and a couple places I'll have to make some intricate cuts.

[White Gardens]

So today I had my pavers, restraint, and poly sand delivered to the job site. There was no real good place for the truck to turn around in the drive so he pulled in strait and was going to back out of the drive when he left.

He had a double axle, I would say medium sized rig, and a single axle trailer with a spider on the back.

When he was backing out he got the rear drive axle just barely off the road. He tried to lock his air-locker for the rear axle to try to get some traction from the tire that was still on the pavement, but he had an air leak somewhere and it wouldn't engage the locker in the axle.

I told him to take some air out of the rear air bags to lower the rear and that actually got him the traction needed to pull ahead.

Well, he had to back up again so he could make the turn and hung the rear wheel on the edge of the road again. Keep in mind in normal conditions this wouldn't be a big deal, but everything is soaked and sloppy and getting off the road a little bit and you lose traction.

So, I busted out the mini skid and hooked a strap to the front of the truck. We both wondered if it was going to actually work or not, and I figured if it didn't, the owner has his 4020 John Deere Tractor, so I wasn't worried.

Low and behold, I had the tracks on the chip rock/oil road and it pulled the semi far enough ahead to get traction. The mini hardly worked, and the tracks barely spun on the road.

So, I wish I had the camera, that would have made a good picture. If I had any doubts about the S600TX having plenty of power, they were washed away in this instant.

[White Gardens]

Overcast, 50 degrees, and a 40% chance of light rain. Luckily the radar is picking up some moisture that doesn't seem to be hitting the ground and no mist, sprinkles or rain to speak of.

My father in-law called and needed a couple tons of wet gluten from the ethanol plant to feed the 4 cows he has in his lot outside of Mackinaw IL. I have to go clear to Pekin Il, where the plant is located on the Illinois River and first had to drop off the boy in Morton IL to a relative who was going to baby-sit. So needless to say it took close to 4 hours just to do that load.

I need to hang out in the organic forum and figure out exactly what those guys are using gluten for when it comes to a green weed control. I can get wet or dry, and sometimes they have an oversupply and I can get it for 15.00 dollars a ton.

I paid for the fuel and gluten and told him to put it on my tab. Whenever he has a couple of pigs or cows slaughtered, then we get some of the meat, so I have no problems paying for some supplies.

It all works out great in the end when you only pay $2.50 a lb. for all your beef and pork, and I know what has or hasn't been injected in them.

I might try to talk him into raising some yard birds next year. That would be some good eats.

I still need to leave here shortly and go do a cleanup. It's going to stink as wet and sloppy as it is outside. Luckily I don't need the mower and bagger on this yard so it will just be a blower, rake and a tarp. I've come to the conclusion that in order to get finished for the season with my final mowings and a few cleanups, I'm going to have to muck around peoples yards. I really don't like to do that for every obvious reason you can think of, but I'm in a pinch now. I might take some pics we'll see how it goes.

So, just reading this post, I realized I'm pretty much an egdeumacated, red-neck landscaper. :laugh: Oh well, seems like you always come around full circle from where you started from. In my case I grew up on a farm, so everything I do now is only fitting.

[White Gardens]

Needless to say I was soaked, the debris was soaked, the leaves were soaked.

Took 2 hours. I used my hedge trimmer attachment like a scythe to cut down a few perennial flowers and a few good masses of Hosta's. While I was at it I went ahead and trimmed the box woods. They were looking funky like they had some sort of rust on the outer leaves and there were a few dead leaves in them. They looked better even though I don't like to trim bushes this late in the season.

All in all, 2 hours and I was done. I didn't charge her as she is the client that referred me to the current client I am doing the paver sidewalk for. I thought it would be a little kick-back for her.

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Another customer with a giant Miscanthus. They don't hold well in the winter so it was time to chop them down.

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[White Gardens]

And the after pics. I will be going back in two weeks to do a final clean-up.

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[White Gardens]

Looking at a possibility of up to 3 inches of rain over the next 36 hours. :hammerhead:

But, luckily the 10 day looks great !!!!!!:clapping:

http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/61732

I don't think I've seen a ten day forecast that looked as good as this one in about 2 months.

BNI meeting this morning, and then it up to the site to get my concrete in for the base for the steps. I'll take pics. If I can get that done today, and maybe a little more base, then I'll be a happy camper. I was hoping to have the base finished today, but, they are calling for the rain to start this afternoon.

[MOWNITDOWN]

Looking at a possibility of up to 3 inches of rain over the next 36 hours. :hammerhead:

But, luckily the 10 day looks great !!!!!!:clapping:

http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/61732

I don't think I've seen a ten day forecast that looked as good as this one in about 2 months.

BNI meeting this morning, and then it up to the site to get my concrete in for the base for the steps. I'll take pics. If I can get that done today, and maybe a little more base, then I'll be a happy camper. I was hoping to have the base finished today, but, they are calling for the rain to start this afternoon.

White Gardens,
I've enjoyed reading your thread and can't wait to see your final product out at the farm house. But I got to tell you, you gotta stop looking at that 10 day forcast. Everytime you give us the 10 day, you say it's gonna dry up, and it never has for you. I always look 3 days ahead on the foecast. After that, it's just a guess. Anyway, good luck and I hope you don't get 3 inches, that's a lot of rain.

[White Gardens]

But I got to tell you, you gotta stop looking at that 10 day forcast. Everytime you give us the 10 day, you say it's gonna dry up, and it never has for you. Anyway, good luck and I hope you don't get 3 inches, that's a lot of rain.

Well, looking like three inches minimum. Lots of heavy rain tonight into tomorrow. Your probably right though, I might be jinking myself, but I'm trying to be as positive about the rain as much as possible. Sometimes I think I'm just kidding myself, but I feel we might have turned a corner on the rain and I'm praying for a dry spell on so many levels.

Mownitdown, thanks for following my thread. I really didn't realize there are people paying close attention to the farm house job until you posted.

I need to find the data, but I wouldn't be surprised if we've had around 10 inches of rain or more for the month. That is absolutely ridiculous for the month of October. The harvest around here hasn't been this far behind since 1960's. The farmers are who I feel the most for right now.

So, here is what I got done the last two days. Not much time involved but it needed to be done. It is the pad that I needed to lay to set the pre-cast, hollow steps. I just did a simple horseshoe where it sits and the front of the pad will be just far enough back to set my first row of pavers right underneath the steps.

11.5, 60lbs bags of concrete. 45 minutes was all it took to mix and float it. I think the form took longer to make than actually setting the concrete. After it had set some, I went ahead and filled between the pads with more crushed gravel and made it higher in the middle so that water runs off of it the next 48 hours.

You can't see it, but I put a "WG 09" in the back of the pad and will be hidden by the steps. I like leaving a little mark wherever I can when working with mortar or concrete.

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[Junior M]

very nice..

Does that concrete from the bag finish real well?

I am asking because Dad built a shed in the backyard and it needs a little concrete apron at the double door.

[White Gardens]

very nice..

Does that concrete from the bag finish real well?

I am asking because Dad built a shed in the backyard and it needs a little concrete apron at the double door.

Ya, not too bad. It's all a matter of making sure you have the correct water content in the mix.

I ended up doing half at a time to make sure it didn't start setting on me before I floated it. I probably ended up fussing with it more than I normally would but I wanted to make sure it was perfect so that the steps sit level without shimming them.

I also added 6, four foot sections of re-bar in it also to make sure it never moves. I also originally was going to dig footers, but the husband didn't think it was necessary as the steps are hollow and not nearly the weight of the original steps. That and I got 9 inches of compacted fill underneath the concrete so I should be good.

Eventually, when the wife decides on re-building the hitching ledges and decides on a block to use, then I'll dress up those pre-formed steps with the same block. She is already starting to finally imagine what the paver sidewalk is eventually going to look like and she is already talking about doing one of the ledges, but, I'm not pushing that until next season. It's already been a nightmare on the sidewalk.

[Stillwater]

Mownitdown, thanks for following my thread. I really didn't realize there are people paying close attention to the farm house job until you posted



gardens, I read every post....

[gdguth]

[QUOTE=White Gardens;3254059]

I need to find the data, but I wouldn't be surprised if we've had around 10 inches of rain or more for the month. That is absolutely ridiculous for the month of October. The harvest around here hasn't been this far behind since 1960's. The farmers are who I feel the most for right now.



Look at this link White Gardens, by tomorrow you and I will have probably had about 10 inches.
http://www.weather.com/weather/monthly/USIL0113?from=36hr_topnav_undeclared

I know what you mean about the farmers. My dad and brother farm and they are having a bad time.

Also, wanted to let you know that I enjoy this thread. Keep up the good work.

[eatonpcat]

I also added 6, four foot sections of re-bar in it also to make sure it never moves. I also originally was going to dig footers, but the husband didn't think it was necessary as the steps are hollow and not nearly the weight of the original steps. That and I got 9 inches of compacted fill underneath the concrete so I should be good.

I would have gone with the footings under the steps (just had to rebuild mine), Although mine were just sitting on an 8" slab. Hopefully yours will stay put!!

[White Gardens]

Well, rain, rain and more rain. I slept in till 11 a.m. this morning. First time in months I've slept more than 6 hours in a night. I feel hungover but rested.

I was thinking about trying to have more base delivered, but they can't do it until Monday. I might go and try and haul in 2 tons at a time with my truck just to have enough material to work with on Sunday. But, we will see what happens. The material yard is ope till noon tomorrow and I can get what I need to finish in 3 or 4 loads. Sometimes I just need to be patient, and if the rain has done anything for me, is to be more patient.

gardens, I read every post....

Awesome, thanks for following. Nice to know my writings have some substance. Thumbs Up



Look at this link White Gardens, by tomorrow you and I will have probably had about 10 inches.

I know what you mean about the farmers. My dad and brother farm and they are having a bad time.

Also, wanted to let you know that I enjoy this thread. Keep up the good work.

My dad still farms, and he is starting to freak a little, which is rare for him. The corn around here looks like it wicking up water from the soil through the stalks. The stalks looks soaked up to the ears. Can't be good. If the wind starts blowing it's all going to fall over from the soil being saturated also.

Thanks for reading. Thumbs Up

I would have gone with the footings under the steps (just had to rebuild mine), Although mine were just sitting on an 8" slab. Hopefully yours will stay put!!

He insisted that he didn't think it needed a footer. I probably should have just gone ahead and done it, but, he is the one I had to win over with my work to earn his trust, so I'll trust him on this one. The only good thing is that if it ever does move, I can just say I told you so. :laugh:

If it were my house, I definitively would have put in footers. The only cancellation is that the hollow steps probably don't weigh more the 700 pounds, so it won't move or sink any time soon. I used some of the rip-rap from the steps to stabilize the soil, installed fabric under my fill, and put at least 9 inches of compacted base down, so it will be fine for probably 20 years or so.

[White Gardens]

Hey, what do you know, it's actually not raining and looks like it is going to dry out.

Daylight savings time stinks. Looks like I'll be getting up at 5 a.m. for a few weeks. I like the mornings though as I can relax with the wife and kid still asleep.

Yesterday I hauled in 4 loads, approximately 8 tons of fill. That should be enough to finish my grade today. I did some checking yesterday and I've got one section I'm scratching my head about, but, I think I've figured it out.

I'll shoot some pics today if I can.

[MOWNITDOWN]

Glad that you're staying dry white gardens. What, you mean you don't like it getting dark at 5:00? I'm still light till about 6:00. I'll be looking forward to the pics.

Hey, what do you know, it's actually not raining and looks like it is going to dry out.

Daylight savings time stinks. Looks like I'll be getting up at 5 a.m. for a few weeks. I like the mornings though as I can relax with the wife and kid still asleep.

Yesterday I hauled in 4 loads, approximately 8 tons of fill. That should be enough to finish my grade today. I did some checking yesterday and I've got one section I'm scratching my head about, but, I think I've figured it out.

I'll shoot some pics today if I can.

[White Gardens]

I shot a couple of pics yesterday, I'll post them later. I'm taking an early lunch today. It actually feels like 12 p.m. :hammerhead:. Gotta love daylight savings time.

This morning I set the steps and got a couple of scoops of base material down. At that point an older gentleman came to visit and parked right in my way of the machine. So, instead of waiting I came home for lunch.

I'm hoping to have the base finished by the end of the day.

[White Gardens]

So I didn't get all my grade finished today only because I decided to set the steps this morning. I did get the finished grade on the east section (with the center island) up to the steps. That was the worst as I had to dump the mini into the wheel-barrow to get the rock out to that section. Unfortunately the tracks were tearing up my corners in my run, so I decided just to use the barrow.

All in all it went great, got a lot done and the rest of the grade should be done by noon tomorrow. After that I might take the afternoon to work on a cleanup.

The steps I couldn't be happier about. No shimming and I was within 1/16 of an inch below the molding of the door. As soon as I'm done with the project I plan on giving them a good power wash.


That Vermeer is such a useful engine.

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Perfectly level and centered.

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Within a sixteenth of an inch of the bottom of the trim, and almost perfectly level.

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I loaded the wheelbarrow where the mini is sitting in the pic.

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Finished grade in the front of the house.

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[Stillwater]

Are the steps pitched forward a quarter bubble

[White Gardens]

Are the steps pitched forward a quarter bubble

Yup. Actually just a little more than a quarter. Part of me wonders if the steps were formed with a pitch to them anyways. My pad had a little less than a quarter bubble and it's a little more than a quarter on the steps.

Regardless I walked up and down them a couple of times and they feel spot on.

[Junior M]

So the sidewalks are going to be pavers correct? Why the old concrete steps?

[Stillwater]

Yup. Actually just a little more than a quarter. Part of me wonders if the steps were formed with a pitch to them anyways. My pad had a little less than a quarter bubble and it's a little more than a quarter on the steps.

Regardless I walked up and down them a couple of times and they feel spot on.


good point, I bet your right on that

[White Gardens]

So the sidewalks are going to be pavers correct? Why the old concrete steps?

It was one of those balances between what the husband wants and what the wife wants. She is the one that pays me to do the maintenance, and he is the one that disagrees with her. :laugh:

He originally was against doing the sidewalk this year, so she and I were both surprised when he said O.K.

So ultimately, when he has some input on what is being done, then I respect it. He is a very intelligent, utilitarian type of person. Basically he is a farmer.:laugh: We are starting to get along better as he is seeing the details I'm putting into the project and he now seems to trust me and my work. When a guy like him offers you a beer then you know your getting in good with them.

Eventually, whenever the back patio is expanded some, and the hitching ledges are re-done, then I plan on using the same style block on the outsides of the steps to dress them up some. Basically it will be similar to the original style of the old steps. It will be a good balance between the formed steps and something more traditional.

[White Gardens]

So, basically I didn't get the base finished.

I felt wrecked this morning after moving all the material that I did yesterday. I'm getting down to the last section close to the house, so I won't have to use a wheelbarrow anymore for the base material. I'm thinking I've got a good 2 hours left on the base, then it will be all about the pavers.

I had to go get a new gas cap for my mower this morning so I didn't get to the farm house until 9. I was moving along pretty good, but by 1:30 p.m. I was done dealing with the base and headed home to load my mower. I had to mow one yard and did a first initial clean-up in the front yard of one my mowing accounts.

Well, what do you know, rain in the forecast tonight. Doesn't appear to be much, maybe a few light showers, so I should be good to go not long after it quits raining. That and a client I did a brush removal and underground dog fence for in the spring called and said that the line is broken. I'm thinking a 60 dollar service call. Hopefully the break is visible and won't take but a few minutes to splice in a connector.

That's it, no new pics as the wife wanted the camera today. I'll post some tomorrow if I get the base finished.

[White Gardens]

Took two hours this morning to finish. When I was done I went ahead a blew some leaves out of the landscaping to take a breather from the sidewalk.

Everything looks great and I went ahead and took the compactor back to the rental house. I probably won't need it anytime soon and I'm still debating on whether or not to compact the pavers when I'm done.

Sounds like a question for the hardscaping section.

All in all the base seems great. I went around a tweaked a few sections to make sure all my pavers lay correctly after I screet off the sand. I'm looking forward to getting started on the pavers. They should just fly into place.


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[White Gardens]

It was time to leave the farmhouse. :cry:

I took a break from the farmhouse today in order to go do a couple random things in my Mom-In-Law's back yard. Recently I took the old pool out, and cut out the old deck. I needed to move the shed before I took the machine back to the dealer.

The only thing that was left was the old river rock, posts, and the the shed needed to be moved as the new pool will be going in the opposite corner.

So I pulled the post, scraped back the river rock, mixed in a little soil and sand and built up the corner where the shed was going to end up.

I unfortunately couldn't cut the base for the new pool as the pool company won't warranty the pool unless they have an excavator they recommend to do it.:hammerhead:

The guys that is going to do it is going to have to remove some of the fence to get a bigger machine back there, when the S600tx would have done the job with minimal damage.

Oh well that's how the ball bounces. I got the shed moved but broke the trim on one corner where my tow strap was against the shed (not in pic). Luckily that was all the damage considering it's one of those pre-fab jobs, and are made to build on site and never to move.

Tomorrow is paver day. I'm getting my first load of sand in the morning. It doesn't look like I'll have enough to get through Sunday, so I just might actually take a day off.

I didn't have my camera, but took the picks with my new LG phone. The pics turned out pretty good after tweaking the brightness and contrast.

Good ol Milly. She's always around when I'm working at the farmhouse. She's always happy to see me.

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Post from the deck.
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Shed dragged back as far as I could go. I then pushed it back in the corner.
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Hing pin height is high enough to get the bucket over without taking it off to get through the gate
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[White Gardens]

O.K., so I guess I'm going to work on Sunday. If the farmers can do it, then so can I.

It's just getting late in the season and I want to be closer to done.

Yesterday I returned the trailer I borrowed for the mini, got my dump and picked up my bedding sand, and then turned around and went to get a few supplies for the farmhouse.

I ended up having to use six larger retaining blocks in one area to retain my pavers. I just used some el-cheapos as they will be hopefully temporary until the hitching ledges are done.

Pics tonight, I plan on getting a good start laying pavers.

[Stillwater]

Are you curving the pavers at the intersections or are you paving right angles

[DLAWNS]

I've been watching your progress and can't wait to see the final product.

[Junior M]

I've been watching your progress and can't wait to see the final product.
Same here.....

[White Gardens]

Are you curving the pavers at the intersections or are you paving right angles

I think I'm going to fill in the right angles at the intersections and then cut a little curve in the to help soften the hard right angle intersections.

I've been watching your progress and can't wait to see the final product.

Same here.....


Me Too !! Seems like this job has been dragging out way longer than I wanted it to. But, when I've had 2 weeks of rain during the project, there is nothing I can do.

Here's a little taste for ya. Once I "broke Out" from the step then it started to go pretty quickly. This is about two hours worth of work, but like I said, it took me a little bit to get started at the step to make sure the pavers were right at the top, and to make sure it looked good.

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[White Gardens]

Not a bad day.

Finished the short section of sidewalk and was able to lay a new string line for the section next to the house. The idea was to do the short section first and figure where my end was going to be so all the pavers lock together perfectly.

Once I get started on this next run I should have everything done up to the front steps in the next 1.5 days.

Do keep in mind that the color of the pavers isn't correct in the pics. There is a fine layer of red clay dust on them and I can't wait to get the chance to wash them.

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[greatinmulchbeds]

looks good... get rid of the pvc screeds and get some metal bars...dont use 2x4s as a screed bar there not true...you will see a big difference. But the job looks like its coming along great you have a good eye for detail

[White Gardens]

looks good... get rid of the pvc screeds and get some metal bars...dont use 2x4s as a screed bar there not true...you will see a big difference. But the job looks like its coming along great you have a good eye for detail


Those are actually half inch metal conduit pipe. I almost went with 3/4 as they are stiffer, but the 1/2 inch is going to be easier to bend on my curves.

The Board actually has a strip of metal screwed on the bottom of it to make it true. You can't find a board that isn't warped anymore, and I don't have a table saw to true up a 2 by 4, so I used some scrap metal I had lying around and made sure it was a strait edge.

I'm definitively making sure all the details are correct. 90% of the time most HO's don't even notice some of the details, but what they do notice is how good their landscaping looks when done, so I know the details are being noticed as a whole.

Thanks for the post. Thumbs Up

[greatinmulchbeds]

oh ok couldnt tell from the pictures...looking forward to the finished product!

[White Gardens]

oh ok couldnt tell from the pictures...looking forward to the finished product!

Ya, looking at the pics it looks like chintzy gray plastic PVC pipe. The two rails I'm using now are starting to get out of shape so they will be used for the curves and the other two I have now will be used for the strait sections unless they get out of shape too.

I was sketchy about using a combination of 3/4 rails and the 1/2. I didn't want the 1/4 inch variation if I used them in tandem, so I'm sticking with the 1/2.

[wurkn with amish]

not bad looking.
Some advice?....
Before you put your edging down scrapet he sand away so the edging sits on your base.

[White Gardens]

not bad looking.
Some advice?....
Before you put your edging down scrapet he sand away so the edging sits on your base.

Ya, I was actually thinking if I should do that or not. I think I'm O.K. with what I've installed so far as my bedding sand has dome decent sized particles up to 1/4 inch so I feel I'm not going to have problems with it eroding away sitting on top of the sand.

I have been pulling away sand on the edging I installed today and I noticed it helped to get the edging a little lower against the pavers.

Thanks for the heads up. Thumbs Up

[White Gardens]

Luckily It didn't rain last night, but there might be a chance for a light shower this morning. It's all around us but we're still dry.

Didn't take any pics yesterday, I was too busy. Luckily my neighbor came to help a little yesterday. He moved some bricks for me so I could just keep laying them. He keeps refusing payment whenever he helps me with stuff, so I might just have to give his twins a savings bond or something when they arrive in 8 months. He keeps telling me that I help him out too so it evens out.

I definitively pacing my self. Even with knee pads, I still want to stand up constantly to stretch. This job has all the sudden made me feel a little older. I'm moving along O.K. but I feel it needs to be quicker. I just hold myself to some high production standards, but this job is showing me that I need to be careful.

My neighbor asked me " I can't believe sometimes how can you do all this yourself ". I just told that I love to work and work hard, and it's easier to motivate myself rather than trying to motivate employees.

Next time on a big project like this I plan on hiring someone at least through a temp agency at the minimum to get through faster. Too bad it had to rain as much as it did during this project. The plan was to work off half the pallets by hand and then use the mini to move the pallets around to the farthest sections. I just couldn't be as efficient as I wanted to. Next year I will be buying a machine, that is going to be a must if I plan on growing as a biz.

Hopefully it doesn't rain too much if at all this morning. I plan on having pavers laid to the front steps by the end of the day so I can get the poly in a compacted, that way I'll have it sealed up in case we get another stretch of rain before I finish. We'll see how it goes. Hopefully more pics tonight.

[White Gardens]

Well, home for lunch and we are getting a light rain. Nothing major, I might actually take the oportunity to go back out there and clean up a little. I have a few stakes, empty pallets, etc.....

My neighbor helped again today. Just showed up, so it was a very pleasant unexpected surprise. He moved bricks again for me and that is just awesome.

I mainly took the morning to finish to the edge next to the driveway and installing more restraint. I also had a couple of low spots or "dips" in the path that I wanted to correct. My neighbor thought I was nuts and being too picky about it, but I told him I couldn't stand it and needed to fix it.

So far I'm pretty happy with how it's turning out.

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[White Gardens]

So, What do you guys think so far ???

[Junior M]

looks great.

are you going to be landscaping the rest of the area around the house or just doing the sidewalks?