Okay why is it frustating to fit hydraulics to a F-450

[Gravel Rat]

Okay I'am getting around to finishing my hydraulic system on my F-450 I built a dumping flatdeck last year. Then I ran out of time and money to finish the hydraulics. Now I'am working on the hydraulics I want to use PTO hydraulics but boy is it becoming a frustrating proposition.

I bought a dump pump but its designed for a single axle dump (5 ton) it puts out 11 gpm and the sucker weighs 38lbs it is the smallest pump made.

I was under the truck with that pig holding it up seeing where I could place it the other day. My arms were shaking so bad trying to hold it above my chest if it dropped I would be in pain. Anyhow the only place I can fit it will create another proplem I will have a 4 foot long PTO shaft.

Next problem the hydraulic tank is a 10 gallon unit I ordered it its another 38lbs. I wanted to put it between the frame rails did some measuring grrrr no its not going to work. So I have to side mount it on the frame. It can't go on the passenger side which I wanted because the exhaust pipe won't allow the suction hose to pass under the frame.

More problems adding the push pull cable to operate the dump argh more frustration. There is absolutely no places to get through the cab floor the 6spd is so huge it takes up all the transmission tunnel. The passenger side has the exhaust system in the way.

The other unbeleivably frustrating is trying to get parts to build a PTO shaft what a pain. The PTO has a 1-1/4 shaft the pump has a 1 inch shaft now trying to mix match parts to make it work. Never had to deal with building a PTO shaft so I don't know.

Dad says to me bite the bullet and use a 12 volt hydraulic pack he looked at my hydraulic pump and said thats overkill. I really didn't want to use 12 volt hydraulic they are slow but boy would it save some headaches.

A good hydraulic power pack is 900 dollars Canadian that is a industrial duty pump.

I can send the dump pump back to the dealer I bought it from I never used it I have the orginal box.

Anybody with experience with the 12 volt hydraulic pumps I do know they are slow any other problems.

My hoist is a 3 stage telescoping post hoist so I would need the biggest reservioir a 12volt pump could have because the hoist needs lots of oil.

I don't plan on doing repetitive dumps like using the truck on a site. I would be go pick up a load drive 30-40 minutes dump the load.

I'am not sure if the PTO that is on the truck is any good I think its going to need seals its drooling oil. It used to drive a decent sized pump the previous owner had some kind of crane on the truck. If I get it all together and find out oh the PTO needs work then I'am looking at more money.

At this point I'am undecided I just don't have time to do all the fabrication work to install the PTO hydraulics.

Any ideas ?

[stuvecorp]

I have two, one was electric with a telescopic hoist and the other is an electric scissor hoist. They are slow but how quick of cycle times are you thinking? I like the telescopic better as it is gravity down and I think it's faster. I honestly don't know if it is worth going full hydraulic unless you were dumping a couple times an hour everyday.

[Gravel Rat]

No repetitive dumping. On a busy day at most I may deliver 3 loads of topsoil. This isn't going to be a production hauling.

If I go the 12 volt route I should have it tipping in a couple days the PTO it will take me over a week of fabrication etc.

[stuvecorp]

Back when the Old 450 was the truck, I did use it as a site truck on projects and it wasn't that bad. Last spring when I was talking to the up-fitter, he strongly pushed for the electric way as it was so much cheaper and he didn't feel the hydraulic was worth it. I probably will cannibalize the old box/hoist for a rebuilder 450 if I do it. I like the Canadian contractor boxes(Brandon,Bibeau).

[riverwalklandscaping]

find a beat up old dump trailer for cheap and steal it out of that?

[Dirt Digger2]

get a pump that is run off the serpentine belt...thats what ran the central hydros on the F550 I plowed with this winter...a simple on/off switch was all that was needed to turn the pump on and off

the electric systems are a little slow compared to the PTO pumps, but not all that bad...your finger hurts a little though if you have a switch rather then a push button

[93turbo]

I built my own dump for my truck from designing the lift system to building it. I had an electric system before and after about 10 dumps my batteries were about dead the alternator couldn't keep up with it. The only up side was it made it like live hydraulics which helps to tailgate out material when you don't have an air gate. If I was you though I would either look into the belt driven pto with an electric clutch or contact a hydraulic shop and tell them what you want and have them get you a pto and pump to fit your needs. My pto bolts the pump directly to it so no need for a driveshaft and fabrication of mounting brakets. I called my local eaton dealer and the tech told me what info he needed and when I got it all I called him back and they built me a pto exactly to my specs shipped it to me and my pump bolted right on and works great. I plumbed in a return filter and a 2.5 gallon tank. I got the pto and pump for about $700. I have a couple pics but they are not very good but it shows you how small and simple my setup is

[JB1]

I don't know how anybody can even afford a dump, everything is so bad here,all the construction companies have layed off a lot of their people and dump trucks are a dime for ten now.Most of the timber companies have closed their doors also since theres no house building or they are getting into the fishing guide business, don't know how thats goig for them. Thank goodness for the government jobs or it would be a lot worse than it is even though don't see how it could get worse unless the hockey teams shut their doors then the beer and peanut vendors would lose their jobs to But it is bad and I just can' keep on typing nonsense, I just don't see how you do this . As for the F-450 they are good trucks unless you get a F350 then they aint bad either otherwise they all are a pain in the ass to put hydraulics on.

[SiteSolutions]

Thanks for the chuckle! :laugh:

[Canon Landscaping]

I have a isuzu frr with a 13ft dump I put the electric pump on it that came with the hoist and it was a cheap one with a plastic tank. I use this truck for deliveries at one of our supply yards and dump it 5-10 times a day with 5-6 tons of material in the bed. The pump lasted two years the last couple of dumps have been real slow and the pump makes a loud noise so I am looking for a replacement. I think I might go back with electric the truck has the allison 1000 and all of the ptos are expensive.

[Gravel Rat]

All I'am after is trying to make some extra money on my days off. I get 70 dollars for a delivery usually a hour round trip. Its all cash money so if I make 4 deliveries of topsoil its a easy 280 dollars for 3 hours of work.

Its getting that time of year people are getting into the gardening mood there is a local supplier of soil now so the price is down to 20-30 dollars a yard not 70-100 dollars a yard.

My gov't job is my main income but a lousy 43,000 a year doesn't cut the mustard, welfare wages.

Like I said I don't have time to do a PTO install plus the weight of the items is concerning me. I'am adding another 200lbs to the truck. When I built the deck I built it heavy its stronger than what you can buy. I have almost 15 years of experience in steel fabrication.

The deck is 300lbs maybe more than the deck I took off the truck. I also cut 150lbs of extra steel out of the frame of my truck it had custom built crossmembers for a crane. Nothing but 3/4 inch steel it was heavy and overkill for what I'am doing.

So if the DC 12volt hydraulic pump will work fine I will send back the dump pump I bought and send the oil tank back.

Even the company I bought the hoist from was pushing the 12 volt pump they said they rarely do PTO anymore.

I had early Fords with PTO but there is far more room under the floor boards. For one the old ZF 5spd is smaller than the 6spd. Under the cab of my truck there is sound deadning.

Like I said all I'am after is some extra coin on my days off. Can't make a living with the landscaping too many people in it working for pennies. People have no choice when it comes to having topsoil delivered you either hire a tandem axle at 90 dollars per hour for a yard of material or you hire a guy like me for 70 dollars per hour and I can get into places a tandem can't.

[Gravel Rat]

Well after doing some researching on the 12 volt hydraulic pumps they are on the back burner for now.

I'am a little worried about the speed. I have a 3 stage hoist that strokes 98 inches. Did some number crunching and it supposidy takes something like 2 gallons to fill the cylinder and it takes 4 gallons to operate it.

If the calculations are close to correct and a electric pump puts out 1.5 gpm that would mean it would take about 2.5 minutes to raise the hoist to full extend.

That would really suck a battery dry.

I guess those 12 volt hydraulics work better with a scissor hoist which only has a cylinder that strokes at the most 18 inches. The oil volume of the cylinder is about 1/4 of what my post hoist is.

Now I'am looking at a lighter hydraulic pump or something that is smaller that can be PTO operated.

[stuvecorp]

I would not want the scissor one, the telescopic /electric is fine.

[Gravel Rat]

The ones I found still wouldn't produce enough volume.

I will have to talk to one of my friends in the hydraulic business and see what he says.

I looked at Fenner Pumps and Muncie Pumps literature.

Not sure if I can return the dump pump I have currently its brandnew but I bought it November of 2008 the weather turned too crappy to try install it then so it sat in the box in the basement. So not sure if the company I bought it from would take it back it was also ordered for me because it wasn't instock.

I may not have any choice I may have to use the pump. I have a hydraulic tank that is in the middle of transit it should be here couple days. I ordered the tank before I was suggested to use a 12 volt pump.

[stuvecorp]

Yeah, you may be stuck with what you got. I never did any calc's on pump stuff, the upfitter did all that. They screwed up and put a shorter hoist the first time and then put a way bigger one to fix it. I still have a inverted hoist from a 9' Bibeau sitting in the shop, don't know what I'll ever use it for.

[Gravel Rat]

I think I maybe stuck with what I got.

Have to see what happens.

[wanabe]

GR, I dont understand what is so difficult about it? Just have a can do attitude and get it installed! I have put so many pto kits on macks that I can do it in less than a day, including all the air controlls and tank. Its not that hard to do. If you cant hold up 38 lbs then use a floor jack to support it.

[Gravel Rat]

If you get under these newer trucks there is so much crap under the cab in the frame rails. I will start on fabricating some pieces this week.

Worked on lots of tandem axle dumps there is alot more room to play with.

I was looking at some different pumps on the internet last night and using a remote valve.

Those little pumps cost a good chunk of change. With a smaller pump but puts out 6 gpm I can get it closer to the PTO so I don't need a long PTO shaft.

It was what my first F-450 dump had but it had a diffrent hoist the hoist had the hydraulic tank all in one. It was a 3 stage hoist and same capacity to what I bought for the current truck but the manufacture don't make the one with the built in tank. They had a control valve built in so all you needed was a pump. Now I need a pump and control valve. Dump pumps come all in one but that makes them heavy and large.

The smaller pumps is what you would see used on a clutch pump. I looked at a smaller pump and its 450 dollars :cry:

A control valve is another 200 dollars.

Ohwell have to see what I can get done I have some time off.