Misc supplies?

[EagleLandscape]

Just rolling around thoughts in my head about how to increase profitability on each job. I have come to realize all of the little things can really add up, or subtract from the bottom line for that matter.

So we markup parts to a certain degree... we charge a decent price for labor, but I don't see a specific way that we are recouping the costs of items such as:

Glue
Primer
Pipe cutters, saws, and blades
Tape
Flux
Solder
Gas/Torch
Shovels
Spades
Nozzle Boxes
Paper Towels (go through alot)
All Handtools... etc...

So looking at what I would call "startup items & non-billable materials," there has got to be a way to recoup these expenses.

Typical Invoice Reads:
# Hours of Labor
Itemized Parts & their prices

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE IDEA Of TRYING TO ASSOCIATE A COST/PRICE TO THE ITEMS I LISTED ABOUT SUCH AS: glue, primer, tape...

something along the lines of a flat fee, and could very on complexity or duration of job.

IE: Misc. Parts (would be the fee name) something to the effect of $5 per hour of work.

In essence this would be the same as increasing the billable hour +$5/hr.

If I figure $5 hour * 6 hrs a day per tech. that could be an additional $30 day per tech * 3 techs = $90 more a day in gross sales. The ultimate goal is to make more money, but also to offset those every day items that really suck the bottom line. (and of course if we are tracking wire, this could be omitted for the invoice, or remain to pay for the wire tracker, batteries, etc. I know Jim Lewis charges something like $50 bucks to break out the 521, but I have heard that customers are glad that we don't charge such an outrageous fee such as that.) $5 seems kinder and legit.

so to carry on $90 a day * 210 actual working days in a year would be $18,900.

I put myself in the customers shoes and thought if I would question the misc parts line item... and if a tech told me it was for glue, saws, cutters, etc. I would be ok with it.

thoughts? Bueller, Bueller?

[irritation]

Just add it to labor. I hate seeing a misc. charge and not knowing what it was for.
But I usually bill and don't collect at time of service.

[TRILAWNCARE]

This is called overhead. Just part of doing biz.

Do you want to start figuring in the insurance, gas, maintenance, purchase price of each truck on every job also. Not to mention liability insurance, property taxes and utility bills for your office


When you go to a shop to have work done on a vehicle, some shops will charge a fee for such things as "shop supplies" or "hazardous waste" This is to cover things such as towels, oil dry, solvent and disposing of the used oil. Which the shop actually sells and gets paid for the used oil. These charges discourage me from going back....

You could charge a fee such as this for supplies on each invoice depending on the job if you wanted too. But I think it would also discourage more people from calling you back, and hurt you in the end. You might just be better off to just raise the mark up on your parts to cover the piddly things like glue, and towels.

[WalkGood]

When you go to a shop to have work done on a vehicle, some shops will charge a fee for such things as "shop supplies" or "hazardous waste" This is to cover things such as towels, oil dry, solvent and disposing of the used oil. Which the shop actually sells and gets paid for the used oil. These charges discourage me from going back....


Yeah, $110 an hour for service. "List" prices for parts. And then the nickel & dime charges added on. $7.50 for "shop supplies" - a paper towel used to check the oil, and some blue nitrile gloves THAT GET USED FOR MULTIPLE CUSTOMERS !!

[Fine Spray]

If you are already charging a "Decent" amount per labor hr.. it's better to put it under misc shop supplies.... Instead of jacking up your hourly charge more. Otherwise the client will go with the next service tech that charges cheaper by the hour!

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

If you are already charging a "Decent" amount per labor hr.. it's better to put it under misc shop supplies.... Instead of jacking up your hourly charge more. Otherwise the client will go with the next service tech that charges cheaper by the hour!

I agree John

I tried to get in the habit of adding a misc charge of 3.00/ ticket. It varied on my consistency. A quick nozzle repair I may skip it. A major solder job with a roll of sandcloth I may add 10.00. A common sense fairness thing I guess.

[mitchgo]

Well you forgot teflon and ( If you use) pipe dope.. Might as well start charging for that too....


A common sense fairness thing I guess.

I Agree.

I mean you gotta break the egg to make the omelet! Spend money to make money.
I new a guy who once charge filters for spray nozzles separelty as extra.. sad sad sad.

[DanaMac]

If we do any soldering repairs
$8 surcharge for mapp gas, solder, flux paste, thread tape

If we do any gluing
$5 surcharge for glue, primer, thread tape

Physical tools like cutters, saws, shovels are figured into overhead
They should last a long time
My sharp shooter shovel is easily 10 years old

[EagleLandscape]

Don't they give you the filter for free when you buy nozzles though...???

Our labor right is significant, and near the threshold of, "you charge what per hour????"

It HAS to be a judgement call by the technician of course. But, when you look at the increased gross sales possible number, it sounds like an awesome idea!

[DanaMac]

But, when you look at the increased gross sales possible number, it sounds like an awesome idea!

I also need to feel comfortable with myself when I go home. I'm not going to nickel and dime everybody, because I don't want it when I get service from somewhere else. If every decision is based on the last nickel you can squeeze out, well, I guess we have different priorities.

[Tom Tom]

I'm not a big fan of misc charges. How 'bout increasing parts prices a bit?

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

I also need to feel comfortable with myself when I go home. I'm not going to nickel and dime everybody, because I don't want it when I get service from somewhere else. If every decision is based on the last nickel you can squeeze out, well, I guess we have different priorities.

In John's defense I push that mentality. An extra 10/day for 20 days times 12 months equals=?

Those little incidentals add up.

The reverse is true as well. Add a 20 dollar a day habit times 7 days times 52 weeks =?

[DanaMac]

At $110 an hour, I think they should be able to cover glue, primer, thread tape, solder, etc. Us $70 and under guys need to make up a little more somewhere. Had three people yesterday tell me my $65 service call fee and $60 an hour was too high. No skin off my nose. 20 more people waiting in line.

[DanaMac]

I realize I sounded a bit harsh in judging John. Wasn't exactly what I wanted to do. But with those rates you should be able to cover the small things.

My apologies John.

[TRILAWNCARE]

In John's defense I push that mentality. An extra 10/day for 20 days times 12 months equals=?

Those little incidentals add up.

The reverse is true as well. Add a 20 dollar a day habit times 7 days times 52 weeks =?

Perhaps you should be adding up service calls lost due to nickel and diming the customer when they call your competitor that does not.


$150.00 per call... 2 per week X 35 weeks per year (seasonal)= $10,500.00

Year round $15,600.00

Is that worth a $10.00 can of glue that would have repaired 50 jobs?

[Mike Leary]

I do notice a lot of auto shops charge what they call "misc. shop supplies".
I never did, bump the hourly rate to take care of the supplies or add a hour on.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Perhaps you should be adding up service calls lost due to nickel and diming the customer when they call your competitor that does not.


$150.00 per call... 2 per week X 35 weeks per year (seasonal)= $10,500.00

Year round $15,600.00

Is that worth a $10.00 can of glue that would have repaired 50 jobs?

Only if your calendar isn't already packed. BUT you get the picture right. Its all a numbers game. You should never quit looking at them or lose track.

To me it all begins with being able to determine your true net profit on a daily basis.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

I do notice a lot of auto shops charge what they call "misc. shop supplies".
I never did, bump the hourly rate to take care of the supplies or add a hour on.

Adding time could be construed as a crime. Attorneys get in big trouble for padding their billing time.

[Mike Leary]

Adding time could be construed as a crime. Attorneys get in big trouble for padding their billing time.

Could be be, I think most clients would feel more comfy with a labor bump or a extra hour to cover supplies, rather than, "1 can of glue", etc.

[Wet_Boots]

You could always use a portable scale to weigh the amount of solder you used :)

[TRILAWNCARE]

Could be be, I think most clients would feel more comfy with a labor bump or a extra hour to cover supplies, rather than, "1 can of glue", etc.

An extra hour..... That's one heck of a lot of supplies.

[unit28]

I just figure the cost of what the parts entaile.

Spray heads---you have to stick it on a pipe with something,
cut it with something, dig a hole with something...blah blah blah

I'm not just charging for a "something". And customers hate trying to figure out what something is. I don't give them the option to try and figure out what something is either.

figure out your parts, add something to it and..TA-DA...your parts list is here.

[ARGOS]

Sounds like overhead to me. If you need a larger percentage for overhead so be it. There is a gray line. What about stamps to bill them, business cards you give them, pen you write your parts list with, cell phone minutes calling them...somewhere the parts get listed and the rest go into overhead.

Yesterday I was trying to figure out how to send all bills out electronically. My insurance company charges me $6.00 for a paper statement. One could tell a customer "I send bills electronically, if you need a paper statement it will be $5.00". Traditionally statements were overhead.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

My philosophy has been that my pure net was my hourly labor charge. My material markup covered my cost of overhead and everything else. If my overhead plus cost of goods sold started to exceed my material sales to customer them I used a greater markup. What I did not allow was for overhead costs to come out of my labor charge.
Buying a RM did not get passed on to the customer. It became a tool or asset of the company and was depreciated. I did markup pigtails and in the beginning of my pigtail installation orgy that added 25.00/invoice. So that did end up paying for the remotes.

[TRILAWNCARE]

My philosophy has been that my pure net was my hourly labor charge. My material markup covered my cost of overhead and everything else. If my overhead plus cost of goods sold started to exceed my material sales to customer them I used a greater markup. What I did not allow was for overhead costs to come out of my labor charge.
Buying a RM did not get passed on to the customer. It became a tool or asset of the company and was depreciated. I did markup pigtails and in the beginning of my pigtail installation orgy that added 25.00/invoice. So that did end up paying for the remotes.

But the remote saved the customer on billed time. SO it's a double edged sword.....

[WalkGood]

I also need to feel comfortable with myself when I go home. I'm not going to nickel and dime everybody, because I don't want it when I get service from somewhere else. If every decision is based on the last nickel you can squeeze out, well, I guess we have different priorities.

I'm not a big fan of misc charges. How 'bout increasing parts prices a bit?


I agree. Ambiguous "miscellaneous" line item on the bill screams of nickel&dime gouging.

Don't use the word "miscellaneous". If you have actual parts or consumables that were used, then specify the parts. I'd stay away from charging for paper towels.

A line item on the bill that says "crimp-clamps 4 @ $0.25" is a no-question chargeable item. Just writing on the bill, "miscellaneous parts", and it will be looked at sideways and questioned.

If you had to do some Cu work, then add enough to the actual price for parts used. i.e. You paid $8.00 for a ball valve, then charge $18 and throw in the solder/paste/gas as part of that $18. It's a "given" that you either needed solder, sanding cloth and paste or you needed pipedope/teflon tape to make the assembly. Don't list those items by themselves. Looks cheesy.

[Wet_Boots]

Clamps for a quarter? You lowballer dweebdorkpikerhack :p

[DanaMac]

Clamps for a quarter? You lowballer dweebdorkpikerhack :p

I hear ya. At least $1.25 each

[Wet_Boots]

Nickels on an invoice? Not in this century.

Now maybe I should include a charge for the cost of the invoice :)

[TRILAWNCARE]

Have any hydraulic hoses made lately.

All the shops here have come up with a "assembly charge" The charge used to be $2.00 per hose.

The last hose I had made it was $2.00 for each end that was crimped on. That is on top of the $9.34 end's. The total for a 1" hose that is just over 2' long was $48.12.

Talk about gouging.

::::::::Shopping for new hose repair shop::::::::::::

[Wet_Boots]

I had an interesting time changing some radiator hoses on a truck, when I couldn't figure out (at first) how to reinstall the original spring clamps.

[WalkGood]

I hear ya. At least $1.25 each

Only "smart clamps" are $1.25 each. :rolleyes:

[Tony Clifton]

I didn't read the thread through - but I normally do labor, itemized parts, and then a misc. line that lists all of the small stuff we use - glue, cleaner, primer, teflon tape, swing pipe (if small amount), etc. I use good judgement and the line ranges from 0 -5-15 bucks or so. Don't think most customers blink an eye at it since I keep it reasonable.

[DanaMac]

If there were no parts used, would a "misc. shop/parts fee" be thrown in? The "surcharges" I throw in there are ONLY when we pull out the torch or glue. I've never used a paper towel on a job. I do have some rags, and they are usually old shirts I would otherwise throw out or give away.

[EagleLandscape]

No, the line item would not be added. If we did a "reset controller and consult homeowner" then no supplies would be billed.

this is not intended to cheat the customer in any way. Only a way to offset and "break even" on misc supplies used. Look at what it can do for the bottom line for crying out loud. Geeeeez

[WalkGood]

If there were no parts used, would a "misc. shop/parts fee" be thrown in? The "surcharges" I throw in there are ONLY when we pull out the torch or glue. I've never used a paper towel on a job. I do have some rags, and they are usually old shirts I would otherwise throw out or give away.


Do you write the word "surcharge" on the bill?

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

But the remote saved the customer on billed time. SO it's a double edged sword.....

My theory is that as you become more efficient to the customer and the customer sees that he is getting a better bang for his buck then he is more likely to okay work beyond the original job parameters. If nothing else you create a customer that doesn't believe he will ever get service equal to me and my remote.

I really started incorporating the remote into service calls because I was getting overwhelmed with service calls and hated that I was not getting all the work I wanted to get done. So like the numbers game with invoices I started playing the numbers game on productivity. Easiest factor to eliminate to increase productivity is wasted walking and frequent back and forth trips between the truck and the controller. The remote eliminates a lot but a good tray set up and thinking ahead helps as well.

[TRILAWNCARE]

No, the line item would not be added. If we did a "reset controller and consult homeowner" then no supplies would be billed.

this is not intended to cheat the customer in any way. Only a way to offset and "break even" on misc supplies used. Look at what it can do for the bottom line for crying out loud. Geeeeez

Geeeez, look at what it can do to the bottom line if you lose a even one customers. It will take 50, $2.00 Paper towel, glue and solder charges to make up for the one lost service call.

Add to your parts mark up and no one will even know the difference. Add a line for BS items and they will shop for a new contractor....

[TRILAWNCARE]

My theory is that as you become more efficient to the customer and the customer sees that he is getting a better bang for his buck then he is more likely to okay work beyond the original job parameters. If nothing else you create a customer that doesn't believe he will ever get service equal to me and my remote.

I really started incorporating the remote into service calls because I was getting overwhelmed with service calls and hated that I was not getting all the work I wanted to get done. So like the numbers game with invoices I started playing the numbers game on productivity. Easiest factor to eliminate to increase productivity is wasted walking and frequent back and forth trips between the truck and the controller. The remote eliminates a lot but a good tray set up and thinking ahead helps as well.

I agree with you 100%. You might have saved that customer 15 minutes. But you can knock out 3 more calls that day for the minimum charge, because you didn't spend the time walking around the yard, or driving and walking for parts.....

[WalkGood]

Add a line for BS items and they will shop for a new contractor....

Thumbs Up:clapping:

[DanaMac]

Do you write the word "surcharge" on the bill?

I don't use the word "sur" actually. I label it as "Charge for mapp gas, solder, flux paste, thread tape" or "Charge for glue, primer, thread tape". I would rather show the fee for this than rolling the cost into a PVC ell that I might buy for $0.30, already mark up to $2.00, and have to mark up to $3.00 for the glue, etc. These labeled items are basically "parts". they are used and left on the jobsite, unlike a shovel that is taken to each job and not left there.

Our charge for these things ranges from $2-$8 depending on how much we are repairing.