View Full Version : Laser Grading
Treemow
05-07-2009, 10:11 AM
I have read some old post of some of you guys purchasing laser grading equipment and was curious if this is working out for you all.
It works, my issue has been the commercial projects have fallen off the cliff. I have not had an opportunity to make any real money with it yet. The weather has also been an issue. As soon as I get caught up I plan on inviting the top concrete guys over for a demo. There have been several excellent jobs go through but the bidding is like hand to hand combat right now and I have not landed any of those yet. I like the concept, I just have not seen the payday yet.
BigDigger
05-07-2009, 10:31 AM
It works, my issue has been the commercial projects have fallen off the cliff. I have not had an opportunity to make any real money with it yet. The weather has also been an issue. As soon as I get caught up I plan on inviting the top concrete guys over for a demo. There have been several excellent jobs go through but the bidding is like hand to hand combat right now and I have not landed any of those yet. I like the concept, I just have not seen the payday yet.
Great idea on the demo day!!
Treemow
05-07-2009, 10:37 AM
Cool. I tend to do a fair amount of levelling fields and pads and curious of the feasibility. Would it be that much more efficient than a rod man. Rod men are very cheap right now.
Cool. I tend to do a fair amount of levelling fields and pads and curious of the feasibility. Would it be that much more efficient than a rod man. Rod men are very cheap right now.
It is pretty dam accurate. I was getting 1/8th in accuracy in sand over 100' in one pass. You can duplicate that with a rod guy but it will take a while. The nice thing is the dual plane. If you want to run slope in any direction the rod guy becomes less valuable, maybe time to run string. There are some other options to this system depending on what your doing. I also have a Laser Horn. I mounted a Plus 5 Apache on it. Works every bit as good as a grade guy once you get on to it. Look up Laserhorn.com on the web, you can also fab your own but for the money they wanted I did not think it was worth it.
The more automated you can be and still be accurate, the better off you are. Although it is sometimes necessary, I hate paying someone to hold a guide rod.
Treemow
05-07-2009, 11:26 AM
Thanx. Most definitely would need dual plane. We usually roto till the areas to rid them of grass and to soften them. We push them flat but maintain fall for drainage.
ccstrebe
05-08-2009, 12:00 AM
I have read some old post of some of you guys purchasing laser grading equipment and was curious if this is working out for you all.
I use mine every other week and when I do I have nothing but a big smile on my face.
I use it mostly for smoothing out my track but I have also spread a lot of ab rock with it.
The one piece of advise I could give you is this, Unless you want to be getting in and out of the skid a lot and manually adjusting the reciever, get a power mast. I have owned two laser graders, one with a power mast and one without the power mast, and I would never own a laser grader without an integrated power mast and with the power mast and laser controls in the cab. When I'm out there in 110 degree heat I don't need my cool ac air escaping.
Treemow
05-08-2009, 12:34 AM
I really like the Level Best. What kind of money to do it right.
ccstrebe
05-08-2009, 01:08 AM
I really like the Level Best. What kind of money to do it right.
Somewhere around 20 thousand with dual plane
Somewhere around 20 thousand with dual plane
The bid I got from level best was 28K. for dual plane. I am not seeing the need to adjust the receiver on the mast.
Construct'O
05-08-2009, 09:28 AM
The bid I got from level best was 28K. for dual plane. I am not seeing the need to adjust the receiver on the mast.
The powermast is more for larger difference in elevation of the ground,like 3 to 4 ft.. it will power up and down and keep the laser beam in the recievers sight,over a longer distance.
Where yours is limited to shorter distance and high in the elevations.Your limited to about 6 tenth difference in ground as to staying in the sight of the laser.So you need to get you site pretty close to grade within the 6 tenth area.
I know you have dual grade(graded) laser,but there will be times on a big enough job that you will loss the beam if not graded close enough for the whole area your working.
Main thing is get your site in shape before starting to finish grade.if you lose sight you still can switch it to manual and cut or fill until close, then find the beam switch back to auto and your ready to go.
As for the powermast it has it's limits also if your working a big area, and distance because of its travel limits.That is where GPS systems takes over,as in 3D jobs like golf course job.Good luck
ccstrebe
05-08-2009, 01:32 PM
The bid I got from level best was 28K. for dual plane. I am not seeing the need to adjust the receiver on the mast.
My bad, you are right. I looked at my last quote for dual plane on the Level Best and it was 25K.
Here is how I am using the power mast. Let's say you want to level an empty 1 acre lot and there is an 8" difference between the highest spot and the lowest spot.
To accomplish this you are going to fill the graderbox with dirt from the high area and transport it to the low area. Depending on how hard/packed or soft/loose the dirt is that you are working with, you will only be able take about 1/2" to 1" cut with the blade at a time. The closer you get to grade the less bite you will be able to take at a time because if you take too big of a bite the box will fill with dirt too fast and stall out before you can get it to the low spot.
If you have an 8" grade difference and you take a 1" cut at a time, you will need to adjust the reciever up the mast eight times in 1' increments (this will automatically adjust the blade down in 1" increments) If you dont have a power mast then you will have to get out of the cab and manually adjust the reciever each time. What if you are in the middle of your 1" cut and hit a hard patch and can only take a 1/2" cut? You get out and manually adjust it to get through the hard patch and then get out again 2 minutes later and readjust back to your original 1" cut you were working with.
The last time I talked to to my laser rep he mentioned that Apache I think has just come out or is going to come out with a system that will accomplish this in the reciever but wont have more than a 3 or 4 inch range.
stuvecorp
05-08-2009, 07:15 PM
My bad, you are right. I looked at my last quote for dual plane on the Level Best and it was 25K.
Here is how I am using the power mast. Let's say you want to level an empty 1 acre lot and there is an 8" difference between the highest spot and the lowest spot.
To accomplish this you are going to fill the graderbox with dirt from the high area and transport it to the low area. Depending on how hard/packed or soft/loose the dirt is that you are working with, you will only be able take about 1/2" to 1" cut with the blade at a time. The closer you get to grade the less bite you will be able to take at a time because if you take too big of a bite the box will fill with dirt too fast and stall out before you can get it to the low spot.
If you have an 8" grade difference and you take a 1" cut at a time, you will need to adjust the reciever up the mast eight times in 1' increments (this will automatically adjust the blade down in 1" increments) If you dont have a power mast then you will have to get out of the cab and manually adjust the reciever each time. What if you are in the middle of your 1" cut and hit a hard patch and can only take a 1/2" cut? You get out and manually adjust it to get through the hard patch and then get out again 2 minutes later and readjust back to your original 1" cut you were working with.
The last time I talked to to my laser rep he mentioned that Apache I think has just come out or is going to come out with a system that will accomplish this in the reciever but wont have more than a 3 or 4 inch range.
Not to be stupid but is that faster using the laser box? Why not do most of it with the bucket and then fine tune it with the laser box?
Treemow
05-09-2009, 12:20 AM
I was looking atwww.laser-grade.com and they have the 8' Level Best listed for $7200. Will I end up with $18,000 in valves and laser equipment?
I was looking atwww.laser-grade.com and they have the 8' Level Best listed for $7200. Will I end up with $18,000 in valves and laser equipment?
I spent 14K on my laser components, that included installation, instruction, materials and a new single slope laser. Is the Level Best dual slope? The number would make me think single, but if it dual, thats a good price.
ccstrebe
05-09-2009, 03:36 PM
Not to be stupid but is that faster using the laser box? Why not do most of it with the bucket and then fine tune it with the laser box?
I guess if it was all choppy over the whole area but not if the low spot is just in one corner, or in my case out at the track where I have the same grade serpetining around over a 200 yard distance.
ccstrebe
05-09-2009, 05:36 PM
I was looking atwww.laser-grade.com and they have the 8' Level Best listed for $7200. Will I end up with $18,000 in valves and laser equipment?
Are you looking for single or dual?
Treemow
05-09-2009, 08:25 PM
A single would probably work for what I want it for.
ccstrebe
05-10-2009, 04:06 AM
A single would probably work for what I want it for.
I've been thinking about getting a dual, mine is available if you are interested.
Skidsteerman
05-11-2009, 12:26 PM
What do you think?
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Can you push and pull with it? It looks similiar to the Dual Dozer box. I see that it has two cylinders but only one mast. Is it single plane with dual cylinders or dual plane with only one mast mounted on it? Looks well built.
Skidsteerman
05-11-2009, 12:46 PM
Can you push and pull with it? It looks similar to the Dual Dozer box. I see that it has two cylinders but only one mast. Is it single plane with dual cylinders or dual plane with only one mast mounted on it? Looks well built.
Currently it is set up for single but can be upgraded for dual.
Yes it can push or pull, the cutting edges on each side of the box are designed to trip or give depending on which way your traveling.
It also pivots in the center.
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stuvecorp
05-11-2009, 03:30 PM
[QUOTE=Skidsteerman;2982589]What do you think?
[QUOTE]
It's interesting, looks beefy. What is the benefit of the wheels trailing? I thought with the wheels ahead you get a longer 'bridge' affect. Hows the price on one?
Skidsteerman
05-11-2009, 05:09 PM
[QUOTE=Skidsteerman;2982589]What do you think?
[QUOTE]
It's interesting, looks beefy. What is the benefit of the wheels trailing? I thought with the wheels ahead you get a longer 'bridge' affect. Hows the price on one?
It's somewhat higher then the level-best cost wise.
The idea with the caster wheels behind the box allow operator to get in closer to curbs and such. Supposedly the casters on the back side also help with controlling leveling function as they are riding on smooth cut surface.
One thing I can tell you is it'll handle more material before floating over it. The level-best is too light and will want to ride up over material.
We're doing a demo day this Thursday and Friday - I'll try to capture some video of it working and post it to YouTube and a link.
stuvecorp
05-12-2009, 12:52 AM
It's somewhat higher then the level-best cost wise.
The idea with the caster wheels behind the box allow operator to get in closer to curbs and such. Supposedly the casters on the back side also help with controlling leveling function as they are riding on smooth cut surface.
One thing I can tell you is it'll handle more material before floating over it. The level-best is too light and will want to ride up over material.
We're doing a demo day this Thursday and Friday - I'll try to capture some video of it working and post it to YouTube and a link.
Wow, I kinda thought the Level-Best was overpriced. I like the laser grader but they are just too painful price wise.
Wow, I kinda thought the Level-Best was overpriced. I like the laser grader but they are just too painful price wise.
Yea I think you reach a price point that guys are really not willing to go to. I think Level Best at around 25K to 28K is right there. If that attachment is over that, you will have a hard time moving them I think. Especially being new to the market.
stuvecorp
05-12-2009, 01:36 AM
Yea I think you reach a price point that guys are really not willing to go to. I think Level Best at around 25K to 28K is right there. If that attachment is over that, you will have a hard time moving them I think. Especially being new to the market.
It may work real good but I just don't think guys will spend that much. With the price of concrete still high, I don't know about anyone else but have not seen or heard of a contractor using a laser box blade in this area. I think even at 20,000 that is too much, am thinking technology will drop in price eventually.
ccstrebe
05-12-2009, 10:32 AM
One thing I can tell you is it'll handle more material before floating over it. The level-best is too light and will want to ride up over material.
After using the Level Best for the last four years I can tell you that that is not true. That's just a salesman talking down the competion in order to sell his stuff.
Skidsteerman
05-12-2009, 11:58 AM
After using the Level Best for the last four years I can tell you that that is not true. That's just a salesman talking down the competion in order to sell his stuff.
Your sure of this?
Honestly I don't care if you purchase a Level-Best, Double D or a spade shovel to do your job with (BTW, I can sell you all three above) The comment was not a bash but a fact. I sold a large 84" wide Level-best unit to a contractor who grades out ball & soccer fields for artificial turf installations. He was the one that told me about what the Level-best was doing and how they remedied the problem. They added weight to it to keep it down on the ground for grade. It is in front of a Deere CT332.
Maybe your Cat anti-work valve stalls out before you can get enough material in front of your level-best blade for it to rise up. Plus your in AZ which is sand, try it in the Midwest dirt.
RockSet N' Grade
05-12-2009, 08:06 PM
SkidsteerMan........post some more pics and/or video with weblink. I am interested. What I see on the pics is that the cylinder rods seem to drop down into the material handling area.......is that true or just my glasses falling off my nose again? Some more pics closer up of the control valves, etc. would be most appreciated.
Your sure of this?
Maybe your Cat anti-work valve stalls out before you can get enough material in front of your level-best blade for it to rise up. Plus your in AZ which is sand, try it in the Midwest dirt.
You just may be my newest, best friend!:drinkup:
Skidsteerman
05-13-2009, 12:53 PM
SkidsteerMan........post some more pics and/or video with weblink. I am interested. What I see on the pics is that the cylinder rods seem to drop down into the material handling area.......is that true or just my glasses falling off my nose again? Some more pics closer up of the control valves, etc. would be most appreciated.
A few more photo's of the Double D.
Tomorrow we are having a open house at our Cape store and a demonstration for this attachment, I'll try to take some video's of it and post up on YouTube.
NOTE: some of these photo's taken are from the prototype unit, some areas have been redesigned and beefed up. Also the prototype has turnbuckles in place of hydraulic cylinders.
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RockSet N' Grade
05-13-2009, 06:00 PM
ok, that explains what i was seeing.........the turnbuckles
bobcat_ron
05-13-2009, 07:11 PM
That system is far more superior, the set ups with the caster up front are a bad idea, you don't see dozer blades with caster wheels up front do you?
The Double D design is like a dozer.
That system is far more superior, the set ups with the caster up front are a bad idea, you don't see dozer blades with caster wheels up front do you?
The Double D design is like a dozer.
Actually there are some issues with tires in the back. When pulling material it bunches up and causes the machine to rise up as the material builds up under the tires. The longer the machine is the better it bridges the ups and downs, of course there are trade offs to that design as well. A dozer blade and one these are two different animals completely.
ccstrebe
05-14-2009, 10:37 AM
Actually there are some issues with tires in the back. When pulling material it bunches up and causes the machine to rise up as the material builds up under the tires. The longer the machine is the better it bridges the ups and downs, of course there are trade offs to that design as well. A dozer blade and one these are two different animals completely.
Basically the same thing I was going to say. Once in awhile we are on the same page.
bobcat_ron
05-14-2009, 12:53 PM
Actually there are some issues with tires in the back. When pulling material it bunches up and causes the machine to rise up as the material builds up under the tires. The longer the machine is the better it bridges the ups and downs, of course there are trade offs to that design as well. A dozer blade and one these are two different animals completely.
Don't go backwards, unless it's to backblade, and once the pile bunches up, lift it up and push it ahead to get rid of it.
I like this style better:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K2OqjT_2tw
This is why I would never run wheel up front:
Watch @0:46, big long low spot as the laser searches for level, again @1:10 and @1:36:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdMEcJfc4co
ccstrebe
05-14-2009, 01:55 PM
This is why I would never run wheel up front:
Watch @0:46, big long low spot as the laser searches for level, again @1:10 and @1:36:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdMEcJfc4co
It's not searching for level, it's moving back up to grade as the machine dips down into the low spot. It's working exactly like it is supposed to.
Skidsteerman
05-15-2009, 12:36 PM
Just when you thought I was done...
Try these on for size.
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Skidsteerman
05-15-2009, 12:42 PM
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh nope, not done yet either - try this one on for size too. (Try to forget the white thing it's connected to:rolleyes:)
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Treemow
05-15-2009, 01:15 PM
The one with the rear roller is along the lines of what I would want to see in the design. The picture posted of the curb trimming machine a while back seemed to be a direction to go.
Skidsteerman
05-15-2009, 01:21 PM
The one with the rear roller is along the lines of what I would want to see in the design. The picture posted of the curb trimming machine a while back seemed to be a direction to go.
Don't think I seen that - new here on this site.
The unit with the roller on the rear and the first unit I posted several days ago will be on a job site next mid week, I will take some video of them both working and post it up on YouTube, then link it here.
talus
05-15-2009, 05:56 PM
Don't think I seen that - new here on this site.
The unit with the roller on the rear and the first unit I posted several days ago will be on a job site next mid week, I will take some video of them both working and post it up on YouTube, then link it here.
Here's the pic of the grade trimmer.
talus
05-15-2009, 06:00 PM
:hammerhead: That was the one with invisible paint.
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=261917
bobcatuser
06-24-2009, 04:23 AM
Don't think I seen that - new here on this site.
The unit with the roller on the rear and the first unit I posted several days ago will be on a job site next mid week, I will take some video of them both working and post it up on YouTube, then link it here.
Did you get some video for youtube? I would like to see how the drum roller works.
Skidsteerman
06-24-2009, 12:27 PM
Did you get some video for youtube? I would like to see how the drum roller works.
Not posted up yet, been too busy to upload it.
We have been working with the company improving some design changes (little things). One area that was a problem was the type of laser control system they were utilizing on their equipment. It was overly complicated for the task at hand and we were having problems dialing it in and keeping it dialed in:confused:.
I'm new to the laser side of things so most of it was over my head - still in the basic training stages in that part for me.
We ended up going with an Apache laser system on the attachment and yesterday we finished setting up the unit at a customers job site a couple hours away from here. By the time we preformed all the mods, it was too late in the day to get it out on the field to video. The customer is using it today and so far no complaint calls.
I will try and post up the current videos I have when time permits and update this thread then.
Thanks
bobcatuser
06-25-2009, 12:20 AM
We have been working with the company improving some design changes (little things). One area that was a problem was the type of laser control system they were utilizing on their equipment. It was overly complicated for the task at hand and we were having problems dialing it in and keeping it dialed in:confused:.
Thanks
What brand/model control system were you using before the Apache? I know what you mean about calibrating the system, it’s a fine line between deadband and valve speed to make things work.
Just wait till you try a system with elevation and slope, that’s where things get challenging.
Skidsteerman
06-25-2009, 02:43 PM
What brand/model control system were you using before the Apache? I know what you mean about calibrating the system, it’s a fine line between deadband and valve speed to make things work.
Just wait till you try a system with elevation and slope, that’s where things get challenging.
Leica was the original brand. I don't think it was so much the brand as it was the model we were using.
They are starting to use the Apache system right now and got a phone call that it's moving too slow, laser receiver / valve needs to be sped up on reaction time - no biggie.
Leica was the original brand. I don't think it was so much the brand as it was the model we were using.
They are starting to use the Apache system right now and got a phone call that it's moving too slow, laser receiver / valve needs to be sped up on reaction time - no biggie.
That can all be adjusted from the cab with that Apache system on the control box. If they could only make that box smaller, the system would be ideal.
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