Trailer tongue weight confusion

[BRIAN GALLO]

I have some confusion on this subject. I have a 12' long single axle trailer rated at 2000#. The deal is, the coupler and ball are rated @ 200lb max tongue weight. I was told that the tongue weight is 10% of your max trailer capacity. Now the deal is I decided to check this out, so I put a scale under the trailer jack and put 1 walk - behind on the trailer. The reading went off the scale - way over 250# at the tongue with just one 450# walk behind! This was however with the machine pulled all the way forward, which is where you would normally put it. My question is, do you have to try to carry everything over the axle to keep the tongue weight down, or are those "max" ratings unrealistic? :confused:

[ADLAWNCUTTERS]

as long as you have a good hitch .don't worry about it. try to keep the heavy stuff over the axle. a couple of walk behinds you'll be fine. good luck.

[Remo Sid]

You should place the load to where the balance point is slightly ahead of the axle(s). That will make your trailer carry the load, and conform to the rated capicity of your hitch. It will also keep you within the law.


SmallEngineRepairHelp (groups.yahoo.comgroup/smallenginerepairhelp)

Remo

[Shady Brook]

With 2 walkbehinds alone, you may be over loading the trailer if it is rated at 2000lb gvw! I don't know how wide the trailer is, but if you are not overloaded with the equipment you own, if you put the two walkbehinds back to back, you may balance her out so that you do not overload the tonge. I would make sure to have some good safty chains as back up. 200lb tonge weight does not allow for much at all. Maybe you need a new hitch and trailer or at least coupler. Think of the ballastic forces that you incur hitting bumps and such in the road, that 200 + lb load can be magnified to a very heavy load that could jeporadize the safty of those on the road with you. Better Safe then sorry.

Jay

[BRIAN GALLO]

If I put 2 walk behinds on I will only be @ 1000#, which is still under weight for the trailer. I am however going to remove the 1 7/8" coupler & ball and replace them with 2" ones. I am also going to weld my safety chains to the tongue for extra support (they are currently held on with one bolt). I am very safety concious about these sorts of things. Thanks for the info.

[Shady Brook]

Glad you are making some changes. I thought you said your trailer was 2000 GVW, or at least that was my impression. Maybe you ment payload. My 14 trailer is heavy duty, and weighs in at 3,000 by itself. I figured the trailer may approach 1,000 anyway, plus a couple mowers and odds and ends would send you over the 2,000 mark. Looks like you have things undercontrol. Have a super season! :)

Jay

[Remo Sid]

Trailers do not have a GVWR. They have a TWR, and a PWR just as was stated, 2000#. Its hard to believe a 14 foot trailer that ways 3000# by itself. What do you pull this monster with?

[Shady Brook]

"What do you pull this monster with?"

Anything I want! :D
Seriously it does have lots of steel, with a large cage on the front to haul gas cans and such. It is really a monster, nothing like those Beaver Creek lawncare trailers.

Aside from my lawn care equipment, sometimes I haul some big oak sections. It was built by a fella that builds bob cat trailers and such, and he made it to haul about whatever you could get on her. It has 2 5,000 lb axles as well. I am very happy with the beast, my Powerstroke pulls her just fine too.:D

[DaveK]

Remo SidTrailers do not have a GVWR. Maybe not the little trailers. But any trailer that can handle carrying a skidsteer certainly does.
The Hudson trailer I use has a GVWR of 18,000 lbs. and a GVW of nearly 5,000 lbs. The F550 power stroke that pulls it only requires a chaufers license (as a comercial vehicle), but to tow the trailer (even empty) you need a class A CDL (yea, the same that is needed to drive the biggest semi) The only difference is that an air brake endorsement isn't needed, since it has electric brakes.

[Remo Sid]

And what were we talking about Dave? Hauling lawnmowers on utility trailers, or skidders. Where I live ( Alabama) anything under 26,000# can be operated with an ordinary liscense.

[DaveK]

Remo, you said "Trailers don't have a GVWR" in response to Shady Brook saying "With 2 walkbehinds alone, you may be over loading the trailer if it is rated at 2000lb gvw! "

You were implying that Shady Brook was wrong or didn't know what he was talking about. I simply showed that Shady was correct. Trailers do have a GVWR.


As far as driving anything up to 26,000 lbs with an ordinary license, that may not be correct. I didn't bother looking up Alabama's laws, but in many states, a vehicle with a GVWR of 10,000 to 26,000 does need a chauffeur's license if used for business. And even any F350 Super Duty pickups (even 2 wheel drive gas) with duals have a GVWR of 11,200 or higher.

[Remo Sid]

The subject is consumer utility trailors. They do not have a gvwr, and the original post stated as much. You jump to the subject of heavy equiptment trailers, trying to prove a point. The point is, we were not talking about heavy equiptment. If you doubt what I say, just see if you can find a gvwr on a trailer such as what this subject is referring to.

Second....to try to make yourself correct about cdl,s you add the stipulation that if you drive for a business you may need them. I simply said you could drive a truck (or other) vehicle as long as it is under 26,000 #. You are dead wrong about the 1 ton truck. As long as the vehicle is for your own use, and is under 26,000#, no cdl is required!!! It doesn't matter how many wheels the vehicle has. Motor homes do not require a cdl. Buses do not require a cdl. But if you add stipulations then in some instances they do.

[Remo Sid]

lol......I just noticed you said skid steer instead of skidder. You actuall carry a bobcat on a 18,000# trailer?

[DaveK]

I just noticed you said skid steer instead of skidder. You actuall carry a bobcat on a 18,000# trailer? Not bobcat, they are just toys for boys. New Holland LS190, now that's a skidsteer. And what the heck is a skidder??:confused: It weighs 7800 lbs, what should I put it on, an 8x16 "consumer" trailer?
And where would I put the 2900 lb pallets of brick pavers?

The subject is consumer utility trailors. They do not have a gvwr, and the original post stated as much. You must be reading between the lines, 'cause I don't see anywhere in the original post where TWR or PWR or GVWR is even mentioned. It simply says "rated at 2000#". How you know whether he was referring to TWR, PWR, GAW, GVW, or GVWR is beyond me.

And take a look at this "consumer" utility trailer that comes in sizes from 5'x8' to 6 1/2'x12'. Is that a 2995# GVWR that I see?

Big Tex (http://www.bigtextrailers.com/trailers/TrailerSpec.php?trailer=30sa)

You must have bought your trailer at WalMart.

Trailers do not have a GVWR. This is what you replied to Shady Brook with. Which is, in your words, dead wrong.

[Shady Brook]

DaveK

Well said. :D

[gslam88]

Guys,


Under the federal law it is that anything above 26,001 GCWR and or towing a unit with a GVWR of 10,000 or more must have a CDL.


There is talk that I have heard that vehicles above 10,001 may have to have DOT numbers on them.

Remo trailers do have a GVWR

• CALCULATING TONGUE WEIGHT PERCENTAGE
1. TONGUE WEIGHT (SHERLINE scale reading): _________________lb.
2. TRAILER ONLY WEIGHT (Scale reading*): ____________________lb.
(Line 1÷ Line 2) X 100 = % OF WEIGHT ON HITCH: _______________%

EXAMPLE: Tongue Weight = 750 lb.
Trailer Weight = 5550 lb
750 ÷ 5550 = .1351 X 100 = 13.51%


hope this helps


Pete

[CT18fireman]

DaveK

Simple and eloquent as always.

Not like my paper towel and tranny fluid lubrication for the angle cylinders. LOL

[DaveK]

CT18fireman, some day you'll have to email me a diagram or something showing the perforations and the correct method of folding the paper towels. :D

"eloquent"?? wow, I think that's a compliment. :)

"simple"?? um.... :D

[Remo Sid]

gslam.......thx for the input. You are mostly correct. However the cutoff is 26,000#, not 26,001, and (trailer) 10,000, not 10,001.

National licenses have been required since 1992 for commercial vehicle operations. This requirement is intended to reduce the number of truckers using multiple state licenses to conceal the overall total of their traffic violations. Both interstate and intrastate commercial drivers must obtain such licenses if they operate trucks with gross vehicle weight ratings of 26,001 or more pounds, if they transport 16 or more passengers, or if they transport hazardous materials requiring placarding.

Drivers liscense classifications:
Class A: Any vehicle or combination of vehicles except motorcycles and buses.
Class B: Any single vehicle with Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more, and any such vehicle towing vehicles not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Class C: Any single vehicle less than 26,001 pounds GVWR and must have endorsement H and/or P. May tow vehicles not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
Class D: Any single vehicle less than 26,001 pounds GVWR; may tow vehicles not in excess of 10,000 pounds. Trucks towing trailers, semi-trailers, or farm trailers not over 16,000 pounds gross weight.

Some special endorsements can be obtained, but none relating to weight. (hazardous materials ect.)

As you can see , a person with class d ( common drivers liscense) CAN drive a truck up to 26,000#, and pull a trailer up to 10,000#.

Shady Brook& DaveK.

No I am not reading between the lines. Trailer capacity rating was mentioned, not trailer gvwr. That is where you are confused.

Trailers under 10,000# can be pulled by anyone with a class D drivers liscense. There are no laws requiring a gvwr. Some manufacturers MAY choose to apply the gvwr, but it is not required. However , above 10,000# the gvwr IS required. DaveK, you have found a manufacturer that chooses to post gvwr, and assume that ALL trailers have a gvwr. These manfacturer,s below DO NOT post a gvwr, according to your logic, they MUST be in violation of the federal trailer laws.

Trailer under 10,000# (http://www.trailex.com/utilitytrailers.htm)
Trailers under 10,000# (www.trailersforless.com/pj_47716_utility_trailer.html)
Trailers under 10,000# (www.trailmax.com/Utility/utility.htm)


You are taking one manufacturer that does post a gvwr (although not a requirement), and suggesting that trailers under 10,000# must have a gvwr. You are taking things out of context. I am sure you are aware that just about anything can be proven on the internet. Look at the link below, and I can PROVE that your New Holland LS190 IS a bobcat.

New Holland LS190 Bobcat (http://adcache.equiptmenttraderonline.com/9/1/1/2119511.htm)

A skidder is a LARGE piece of equiptment used by loggers to drag cut trees out of the woods.

http://www.bigtextrailers.com/trailers/TrailerSpec.php?trailer=30sa>

"You must have bought your trailer at WalMart."

I am the maintainance supervisor for a municapality. I have trailers ranging from trencher trailers with little 8" wheels, to a 59,000# lowboy, and several sizes in between. Some of my employees have cdl,s, and some don't. It is my responsibility to assign the right operater with the right equiptment.

[Remo Sid]

New Holland link.....New Holland LS190 Bobcat (e.equipmenttraderonline.com/9/1/1/2119511.htm)

[Remo Sid]

Tech. problem.......lolNew Holland LS 190 Bobcat (http://adcache.equpmenttraderonline.com/9/1/1/2119511.htm)

[DaveK]

I'm still typing...... will edit this post when done.
oops, forgot to edit this one and posted below.

Hey, moderator, think you could delete this one.

Thanks, Dave

[gslam88]

Remo,

Ok you have me.. I did not specifiy that "inclusive" of 26,001, however I dd say a 10,000 trailer


Under the federal law it is that anything above 26,001 GCWR and or towing a unit with a GVWR of 10,000 or more must have a CDL.

Also have you heard anything about the possiblity of appling dot # to 10k and above vehicles??

We could go back to the old days of SNL ( Sat Night Live) of Point counter Point with with Jane Curtin and Dan Akaroid...

But you lay out the argument very well

I just did not add as much for airbrake restrictions, passanger, tankers, doubles, triples, etc..... but I think everyone gets your point.


Pete

Also CDL Class A holder

[Shady Brook]

"I have a 12' long single axle trailer rated at 2000#."

Ok, lets assume that the "rated capacity" is 2000 lb's. Meaning that the trailer and all it's contents is not to exceed 2000 lb's.

How does this differ from GVW rating?

It is my understanding that my truck rated at 8,600 lbs may exceed 8,600 lbs in weight for both truck and payload. Total weight of truck and load may not exceed 8,600 lbs.

What is the big deal with saying GVW rating anyway?? It gets the point across I think.

[DaveK]

Like I said earlier, I didn't check Alabama laws, but here is Michigan's law concerning chauffeur licenses.
"A chauffeur license is required if you are employed for the principal purpose of operating a motor vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 10,000 pounds or more. (Michigan law considers someone to be employed for the principal purpose of operating a motor vehicle "when the person's employment customarily involves the necessary use of a motor vehicle for hire or for transporting passengers for hire, or for transporting for gain or hire any merchandise for display, sale, or delivery." (MCL 257.6(2)))

So in Michigan, even an F350 dually with a GVWR of 11,500 used for business purposes, does require a chauffeur license. Not CDL, chauffeur.


Shady Brook& DaveK.
No I am not reading between the lines. Trailer capacity rating was mentioned, not trailer gvwr. That is where you are confused. It says "trailer rated at 2000#." Again, how would you know if he was reffering to the gross rating (GVWR) or payload capacity? The way I read it, that would be the GAWR or GVWR.




DaveK, you have found a manufacturer that chooses to post gvwr, and assume that ALL trailers have a gvwr. These manfacturer,s below DO NOT post a gvwr, according to your logic, they MUST be in violation of the federal trailer laws. Wow, you are twisting what I said to the extreme. You said "Trailers do not have a GVWR." I simply offered proof that they do. It would seem that anyone that has "trailers ranging from trencher trailers with little 8" wheels, to a 59,000# lowboy, and several sizes in between" would know that trailers DO have a GVWR.

These manfacturer,s below DO NOT post a gvwr, according to your logic, they MUST be in violation of the federal trailer laws. I think you used caps on the wrong words. It should be "These manfacturer's below do not POST a gvwr..."
The first link shows "capacity" and "total weight", with a little simple math, you have the GVWR.
The second link shows NO weight specs, not even payload or trailer weight. So that link is meaning less.
And the third link (which I should have used as proof, not you) shows a page listing trailers and their capacity.
But, if you click on the trailer model, it shows a page listing (as the first spec) the GVWR!! The Model S-5-UT has a GVWR of 6080#.

As for the LS190 being a Bobcat. Bobcat is a brand name, New Holland is a brand name, so how can a New Holland be a Bobcat?
By the way, your links aren't working because you forgot the i in equipment here is a working link. http://adcache.equipmenttraderonline.com/9/1/1/2119511.htm And just because somebody calls it a "skidsteer bobcat" in a classified ad, does NOT mean that it is correct. But thanks for trying to show me what the equipment that I use is. :rolleyes: