Need help dealing with a lowballer

[xxl]

I have been taking care of this creditors lot for a year now. All last year they loved the work and now this out of work lowballer is trying to lowball his way into my customer what can i do? I think i might take a cut just so he dose come into where I am. I hate these dudes that do work so they can go drinking on friday. My favorite is when i bid a yard and the presons says he was doing it for 25 and it is a $40+ lawn for me.

[QualityLawnCare4u]

Are these really the type of clients you want? They don't care about quality just want it cheap. I don't want no more of these and have weeded my last one out like this. Also if you lowe your price where will it end? You go down to 25 then 20 and so on. Might as well sit at home than work for free.

[dmcdade]

Agree with the above. Alot of times I am told I am to high on prices. Sometimes I have to explain how I pay taxes, insurance, etc and the other guy is just a bum who needs beer money and is in between jobs. If they want professional quality, they have to pay or I go to the next house.

[xxl]

you guys are right i will sit down and set limt on how much and can go down and if it is past that then mr.barfly can have it

[Knapp_999]

I have delt with the same bs I charge minimum show up fee... there are kids out there that are low balling me as low as half my fee... I explain my price based on insurance, licensing, upkeep on equipment plus with that I don't do it to make minimum wage... as soon as their wal-mart special lawn mowers and trimmers break down they will be calling you back... seems with other LCs i have talked to say the low ballers never last long and you will end up picking up those accounts

[Economy Landscaping]

you cant go too low. Best way is to explain to your customer that they are dealing with a drive-by-contractor. That the only way he can give them a price that low is because he has not insurance, most likely doesnt pay his taxes, and will be gone when something goes wrong. For your 40+ they will know they have total piece of mind, if you break a window due etc, you have insurance to cover any damages. That seemed to help me out. But yes is hard to keep the price at the avg rate (44.50) due to some of these lowballers shooting for 15-20 bucks! its crazy... I know we all have to work, but doing that is plain o' stupid!

D.

PS: these guys are all over the place and in all trades... in roofing i was getting 45 per square new construction (labor only). and I was losing jobs to 20 per square. HOW THAT HELL CAN THEY DO THAT AND STILL CARRY A $42,000.00 Roofing insurance (WC/GL).?!?

[rls260]

I use to work in a large city and ran into this all the time my main problem were x military and off duty firemen ( I have great respect for both but don't try to cut throat me) The city would audit all lawn businesses at least every few years but refused to go after any of these guys that didn't have license didn't pay taxes etc...... So this is how I dealt with them I got a digital camera started taking there pictures and license plate # then went to there face and told them if I caught them mowing grass or herd of them lowballing jobs I would send the information to the irs local and state tax office. I would also tell tight ass customers that I didn't care if they fired me but If they hired this jack leg I would send there address along with the pictures I lost a few jobs and said good riddance but I ran these guys out of neighborhoods that i worked in most of my threats were bluff and half the time I didn't even take any pictures sure they just moved down the road but word got around and people were afraid to hire them because they didn't want to be involved in any problems. It may have also been because my helper and I could never been considered pretty boy landscapers (tats, long hair both of us over 225 at the time. also ran a lawn spraying company out of a neighborhood for blaming lawn browning on me having dull blades (I had new or fresh sharpened blades every day) Luckily now i live in the country and competition for large commercial is almost non existent and most of my competition are my friends I pass small residential and landscaping on to them and they pass large mowing and brush clearing or chest high mowing to me works out great and we both can spend more time working and less time finding new work plus most potential jobs come with a recommendation and you usually have those jobs the second you start to talk to them.

[Q in Sac]

I agree with Knapp_999. What will happen is, these "lowballers" with get tried of working too hard for little pay. Provide very bad service. Then they will "disappear". I see a lot of yard equipment for sale or in pawn shops out here in Cali. I don't know how you guys handle it on the East Coast. There is a lot LC's out here and the cost of maintaining lawns justify the price. So if the customer says they get somebody for 10 dollars cheaper , "walk away". I know their is more business out in your area. You just need to get out and advertise. And get your name out there. Peace.

[Okielawman28]

I mow little bitty yards in my city for 25 bucks if it takes me less than an hour, anything after the first hour I charge more for.

Just because I charge less and do the same qaulity work, does not make me a bad person, and not alot of people can go out and buy a 5,000.00 lawn mower and a 2,000.00 trailer, and spend another couple of grand in other stuff.

I am a full time college student and plan on cutting yards untill I graduate and my clients understand that. And I use to cut grass when I was off duty from being a cop before I joined the military, and I am ex military, so the post I read about taking pictures of off duty cops and firemen and threatening to turn them in, well I wish I could catch some one putting their nose in my business, that would just make my day that much more interesting.

I am just ashamed some one would bash on ex military guys doing honest work.

[rls260]

Okielawman28 I find it hard to believe that anyone would defend a lowballer If you are doing honest work then I am not talking about you but If you are working in a town that requires a business license and you don't have one or you aren't paying taxes then you are who I have a problem with, and I wasn't busting on the military or fire men I thought I made that clear. but as for being a cop I would gladly put my nose in you business. If you were breaking the law hell I would have put a saddle on your above the law ass and rode you out of town! I have cost 5 corrupt cops there jobs and won a lawsuit against another so I would definitely have fun with you If you think you don't have to follow the same laws as the rest of us honest working people. And yes I would have made your day interesting. and since you seem to have trouble reading I will say it one more time I have great respect for the Military,Firemen and even some Police officers. Hopefully we just have a different definition of a lowballer and you have your license and pay taxes because I hope you aren't one of those cops that thinks they can do what ever they want. so please tell me we are just arguing semantics.

[Okielawman28]

That is fine, just sounded to me like you were busting chops on some folks you have no business busting chops on. Wow got some cops fired did ya,,, that ought to make you feel good about yourself, I imagine they got by ok and found other jobs, and their kids got lunches and stuff like that.

But I do think that we have other meanings of the term lowballer.

But there are some cops out there who should not have a badge I will agree with you on that point. Anyways, I hate drama, especially on something as petty as a website posting forum, of all things when it has to do with law mowing services.

[rls260]

sorry we had the misunderstanding I just grew up in an area where abuse of power and questionable business tactics were the norm good luck with college and your lawn business.

[unkownfl]

I use to work in a large city and ran into this all the time my main problem were x military and off duty firemen ( I have great respect for both but don't try to cut throat me) The city would audit all lawn businesses at least every few years but refused to go after any of these guys that didn't have license didn't pay taxes etc...... So this is how I dealt with them I got a digital camera started taking there pictures and license plate # then went to there face and told them if I caught them mowing grass or herd of them lowballing jobs I would send the information to the irs local and state tax office. I would also tell tight ass customers that I didn't care if they fired me but If they hired this jack leg I would send there address along with the pictures I lost a few jobs and said good riddance but I ran these guys out of neighborhoods that i worked in most of my threats were bluff and half the time I didn't even take any pictures sure they just moved down the road but word got around and people were afraid to hire them because they didn't want to be involved in any problems. It may have also been because my helper and I could never been considered pretty boy landscapers (tats, long hair both of us over 225 at the time. also ran a lawn spraying company out of a neighborhood for blaming lawn browning on me having dull blades (I had new or fresh sharpened blades every day) Luckily now i live in the country and competition for large commercial is almost non existent and most of my competition are my friends I pass small residential and landscaping on to them and they pass large mowing and brush clearing or chest high mowing to me works out great and we both can spend more time working and less time finding new work plus most potential jobs come with a recommendation and you usually have those jobs the second you start to talk to them.


It must be rough to get a license where you are. In Orlando it is like a 30 min ordeal and anyone can get one for like 30 bucks. Why would they audit you do you have to pay a income tax to the city?

[SangerLawn]

The below story is a typical story.

I had a customer for 2 years and never had a complaint. This year when I contacted them they said they were going with someone cheaper this year unless I am willing to match the price. I told them that my price is for the quality and I am not going to drop the quality just to match someone elses price. 2 weeks later that customer called me and asked me if I would start mowing there lawn again. I said off course and welcomed them back.

When I pulled up at there house I told them im not sure how much of there grass is going to come back. Who ever mowed it mowed at half an inch, scalped the lawn all over the place, dug HUGE ruts all over the lawn. To top if off they did not clean the a/c, steps, or basement windows and left the driveway covered in mud. Once the mud was washed from the driveway there were black marks everywhere from where the idiots zero turned on there white drive (about 10 of them).

My point to this story. Not all of the time but most of the time the lowballers are idiots just looking for a fast buck. Let them hang there self. Over the years I took notice to a lot of things. In the spring everyone has a truck pulling a trailer with a mower on it. Once it hits 90 degrees outside you will only see real companies.

Below are pics of the lawn I told you about in the above story. These pics were taken when the customer asked me to take them back….

[Jordanfan20]

Let the lowballers cutters get the low baller customers, these aren't the customers you want. When I first started I was cutting a lawn for half of what I realize I now should of charged.. and yeah, all I did was cut the grass nothing else and the guy would still get mad and me he didn't understand I as giving him such a good deal, he somehow expected I would edge, trim and blow the grass even when he asked me to only cut it the first time. Low ballers can't be satisfied, they want the best possible lawn cut for the cheapest price.

[rls260]

Getting a license wasn't hard but once you got a license the city would audit you every few years to hit you with personal property tax and make sure they inventoried all your equipment (rakes and shovels) and they were jerks about it, they were very disrespectful to the lawn care industry in general and seemed to over target our industry (it wasn't just me ) if you went thru all the proper things to be legal it put a target on your back if you didn't have a license they wouldn't bother you and had absolutely no desire to go after those that didn't and if you were x-military or off duty fire man you got a free pass even if caught working without a license it was very unfair to those of us that try to obey the rules and got hit with high taxes for our trouble.

[ED'S LAWNCARE]

Let the lowballers cutters get the low baller customers, these aren't the customers you want. When I first started I was cutting a lawn for half of what I realize I now should of charged.. and yeah, all I did was cut the grass nothing else and the guy would still get mad and me he didn't understand I as giving him such a good deal, he somehow expected I would edge, trim and blow the grass even when he asked me to only cut it the first time. Low ballers can't be satisfied, they want the best possible lawn cut for the cheapest price.

In defense of all clients, don't we all want the best equiptment for the cleapest price? Seems to me there is no difference. I used to charge more with the same mind set well you get this type of quality. As the jobs became fewer and fewer, and the economy went south I lowered my prices and worked on effiency. You would be amazed how much you could trim off the price if you can become as efficient as possible. Most people don't realize how ineffecient they really are.

To me a true low-baller is one who is not lic, and don't pay taxes some may disagree but ins is optional. I do all three and my starting price is $28. I do have a couple of bi-weekly that are $45-75. I am cheaper than most in my area but not the cheapest. I think alot of lco's feel entitlement for their prices since they own a business. Oh I love this one why leave money on the table. Lets see if you keep raising the prices you will evenually run yourself out of business. Maybe the lowballer is the check and balance to it all Not all cost of business are the same you can ask 5 lco's what it cost to stay in business and you will have 5 completely different responses.

What really needs to happen is everyone work on their own business. Hope everyone has a safe and prosperous year.

[topsites]

Are these really the type of clients you want? They don't care about quality just want it cheap. I don't want no more of these and have weeded my last one out like this. Also if you lowe your price where will it end? You go down to 25 then 20 and so on. Might as well sit at home than work for free.

Ain't that the truth, that is probably the main reason why my minimum is $30.

I just had someone test me on this, more than one in the last few days...
And they tested me good, but I just kept thinking to myself...
Yeah, and I go down to 25 to please them and it doesn't end, it never ever ends with this *%&^

No sir, you can NOT do it cheap enough, I don't care who you are, soon as I give them an inch they want a foot,
give them that to shut them up and they want a mile, doesn't matter with these folks they are not pleased until they
get discount on top of half price over something for nothing and really I should give them my car, my clothes, and my house, too?
Sure, and just when I think it's over here it starts all over again, can I have your bank account also, oh pretty please?

Don't, I say do NOT even try.
Some customers got a lot to learn, as in leave well enough alone.
I give them a good price, but take it or leave it.

[Okielawman28]

Yeah I like eds answer just let everyone worry about themselves, I think that is the best philosophy.

I start at $25 dollars a lawn and to me that is good money when I can make that in an hour, not counting expenses of course.

well anyways I am done responding to this particular posting, have a good day gents, it rained all last night so no cutting this morning, yuck

Chris

[VirginiaLawnCare]

I use to work in a large city and ran into this all the time my main problem were x military and off duty firemen ( I have great respect for both but don't try to cut throat me) The city would audit all lawn businesses at least every few years but refused to go after any of these guys that didn't have license didn't pay taxes etc...... So this is how I dealt with them I got a digital camera started taking there pictures and license plate # then went to there face and told them if I caught them mowing grass or herd of them lowballing jobs I would send the information to the irs local and state tax office. I would also tell tight ass customers that I didn't care if they fired me but If they hired this jack leg I would send there address along with the pictures I lost a few jobs and said good riddance but I ran these guys out of neighborhoods that i worked in most of my threats were bluff and half the time I didn't even take any pictures sure they just moved down the road but word got around and people were afraid to hire them because they didn't want to be involved in any problems. It may have also been because my helper and I could never been considered pretty boy landscapers (tats, long hair both of us over 225 at the time. also ran a lawn spraying company out of a neighborhood for blaming lawn browning on me having dull blades (I had new or fresh sharpened blades every day) Luckily now i live in the country and competition for large commercial is almost non existent and most of my competition are my friends I pass small residential and landscaping on to them and they pass large mowing and brush clearing or chest high mowing to me works out great and we both can spend more time working and less time finding new work plus most potential jobs come with a recommendation and you usually have those jobs the second you start to talk to them.

When your first sentence has "x military and firemen" in it it shows a lot. I am soon to be ex military and have ran a legit business for 5 of the 10 years I have been in the military. Because we have another full time job does not mean we cant run a legit business. I would laugh in your face if you came up to me in Virginia threatening to call the IRS. Whats low balling to you might not be low balling to him. Just because you have higher over head costs. Ive said it over and over again there IS NO WAY for someone to look at another company and tell if they have insurance or are licensed. So leave it to the people that get PAID to do it.

Low balling people are everywhere in every field its the facts of life and just about every one of us has low balled a bid at some point in our life.

A lot of you people worry to much about what other people are doing and not enough about improving your own business which is why a lot of you fail.

[S.I.]

I am laughing at the responses and complaints on this thread. Don't get me wrong, I can't stand these guys that go out giving the impression they are running a business and are not licensed, insured, etc. and I will take the time to check with city officials to see if they are. I don't bother threatening people or trying to scare them, that IMO is childish and immature.

These guys saying that they can't cut for under $40 either are running well paid crews and have high overhead, or need to take a look at their efficiency. I've been there and thought I knew everything and wouldn't drop my gate for less than $30 until I really started looking at my costs and efficiencies. I went from about $2500 a month (on weekly maint. other service are completely different subject) to over $5000. It costs about $5 an hour to run my ZTR and about $3 an hour for push mower, trimmer, edger, and blower. The more accounts that I service and the more hours I work the lower my fixed costs are per hour.

I have been confronted by 3 different LCO's this season alone about pricing too low and taking customers from them. I'm not pricing "fair" is what I have been told, and was told by one person that I was a "low-baller". I have license, insurance, certification, insurance, and pay taxes on everything I do, but have found ways to cut costs and time without cutting quality. As a matter of fact I have received nothing but compliments from my customers. <that's not bragging it is fact. More often than not, I receive tips along with payments ranging from $5-$100 for services because the customers claim I give a "better than fair price".

I've heard the complaints of "leaving money on the table" and if you get more than 10% of your bids the price is too low. This is all crap. Give people good work for a good price, they will be grateful and bring you more work. Know your costs and what it truly "costs" to do the work, then look for ways to cut the costs and time without sacrificing quality. I did this and found that I can make (after expenses) $50+ per hour cutting $20 lawns. Be careful who you assume is low-balling, they may just be better businessmen.

[Jordanfan20]

I am laughing at the responses and complaints on this thread. Don't get me wrong, I can't stand these guys that go out giving the impression they are running a business and are not licensed, insured, etc. and I will take the time to check with city officials to see if they are. I don't bother threatening people or trying to scare them, that IMO is childish and immature.

These guys saying that they can't cut for under $40 either are running well paid crews and have high overhead, or need to take a look at their efficiency. I've been there and thought I knew everything and wouldn't drop my gate for less than $30 until I really started looking at my costs and efficiencies. I went from about $2500 a month (on weekly maint. other service are completely different subject) to over $5000. It costs about $5 an hour to run my ZTR and about $3 an hour for push mower, trimmer, edger, and blower. The more accounts that I service and the more hours I work the lower my fixed costs are per hour.

I have been confronted by 3 different LCO's this season alone about pricing too low and taking customers from them. I'm not pricing "fair" is what I have been told, and was told by one person that I was a "low-baller". I have license, insurance, certification, insurance, and pay taxes on everything I do, but have found ways to cut costs and time without cutting quality. As a matter of fact I have received nothing but compliments from my customers. <that's not bragging it is fact. More often than not, I receive tips along with payments ranging from $5-$100 for services because the customers claim I give a "better than fair price".

I've heard the complaints of "leaving money on the table" and if you get more than 10% of your bids the price is too low. This is all crap. Give people good work for a good price, they will be grateful and bring you more work. Know your costs and what it truly "costs" to do the work, then look for ways to cut the costs and time without sacrificing quality. I did this and found that I can make (after expenses) $50+ per hour cutting $20 lawns. Be careful who you assume is low-balling, they may just be better businessmen.


Agreed,great write the best one I've read on here. Wow running people out of the city must have really helped you since you lost business....... There are plenty of houses to share, I'm pretty sure you'd develop a reputation of being a as&#^%$ which would be detrimental to your business.