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View Full Version : Is this a good price?


markethound80
05-18-2009, 05:53 PM
My driveway is presently asphalt and is 620 sq feet. The company doing my back patio and front entrance offered to also do my driveway for additional $3500. These are using the Strada Antico Stones. Retail costs of these stones is $3.89 sq ft. These seems like a really good price. any suggestions?

BrandonV
05-18-2009, 06:38 PM
demo of current drive included? I'd say way too cheap for a drive. but maybe if you're in fl. but I'd still say too cheap. make sure they're doing a proper base and whatnot for your region.

markethound80
05-18-2009, 06:40 PM
I am located in Ontario..

BrandonV
05-18-2009, 06:45 PM
so is that in US$ or Can$

markethound80
05-18-2009, 06:53 PM
CDN... Keep in mind, I am the customer here. So this is a paving company giving me a price. $3800 for 620 sq foot driveway that is already covered in asphalt which he would obviously remove and lay down the interlock stones. I believe normally driveways my size would go for between 8k to 10k. And that is why this price seems so good.

lblmike
05-18-2009, 07:11 PM
seems way too low

probably using gravel under ashphalt as base. and no edging (brickstop) and no polymeric sand in joints

4 seasons lawn&land
05-18-2009, 08:30 PM
too good of a price... should cost that in materials if he's doing it right... which mean's he's probably not.:drinkup:

BrandonV
05-18-2009, 09:18 PM
too good to be true, you'll be paying to have it redone in a few years unless he's doing it at a loss just to have product in your development or some kind of marketing strategy but STILL way too good to be true, especially in a cold climate.

soopa
05-18-2009, 10:13 PM
asphalt is easy to demo, light to haul, and free to recycle. base is a major part of paver cost. if all he's doing is screeding sand on the existing base and laying block and you've already covered his cost of getting on to the site/etc then i can see how he can make worthwhile money at that price.

the driveway sounds really small, if it's straight in and out then it's even more realistic.

his paver cost is probably about $2100-2200, edging under 50, poly about 400, and bedding sand under 50. labor cost is rather minimal, sounds like a small half day project for a lean crew to me (given proper equipment).

i'd just make sure he is using the proper materials and the base is acceptable (it probably isnt). paver driveways with ruts are no fun.

installation details should be included in the proposal and make sure it comes with a warranty... 5-year minimum is pretty standard for paver work.

markethound80
05-19-2009, 04:16 PM
Yes, he will be using the existing base and also adding a little. My home is new, built only 2 years ago. Builders and Developers in my area (York Region, Ontario) usually have exceptional bases and are good for pavers. A friend of mine used the existing base for his pavers and it looks great after years of wear and tear. The driveway is a very simple in and out.

4 seasons lawn&land
05-19-2009, 07:40 PM
Yes, he will be using the existing base and also adding a little. My home is new, built only 2 years ago. Builders and Developers in my area (York Region, Ontario) usually have exceptional bases and are good for pavers. A friend of mine used the existing base for his pavers and it looks great after years of wear and tear. The driveway is a very simple in and out.



What is there already isn't really realavant. You have to "build" a base with fabric, a certain type of crushed stone, layers of compaction, etc.

soopa
05-19-2009, 08:17 PM
What is there already isn't really realavant. You have to "build" a base with fabric, a certain type of crushed stone, layers of compaction, etc.

huh? :confused:

hardscapers didn't invent "road base" methods or materials ya know. a good asphalt installer will prepare their base in a nearly identical fashion to a paver installer. the main exception being they use better equipment... large rollers and power screeds.

that said, good asphalt installers are far and few between.

one of the better pavement guys in this area uses Mirafi HP under all their driveways, on top of which they lay and roll a 12" base under their 4" of asphalt. i'd be more than happy to install pavers on their base.

soopa
05-19-2009, 08:25 PM
Yes, he will be using the existing base and also adding a little.

That's the way to do it. They'll lose ~2" of gravel with the asphalt tear out. They should rake and compact whatever is left and screed and compact a new finish layer. On top of that they should place a separation membrane between the gravel and their paver bedding sand. From there on out it's pretty straight forward... just make sure they use a polymeric sand...


My home is new, built only 2 years ago. Builders and Developers in my area (York Region, Ontario) usually have exceptional bases and are good for pavers. A friend of mine used the existing base for his pavers and it looks great after years of wear and tear. The driveway is a very simple in and out.

Sounds like you're an informed consumer so just keep it that way and get all the installation detail in writing.

They definitely CAN make decent money at the price given based on the information you've provided. That's a good thing because if they're not making money you're probably not getting quality.

soopa
05-19-2009, 08:29 PM
Oh, and make sure you get a full warranty. Don't sign off on pre-existing base conditions or what have you. If they're soliciting you for work under those conditions they should be prepared to guarantee performance on the existing base.

markethound80
05-19-2009, 09:45 PM
The company doing the work actually does ashphalt and concrete work as well. He owns the same compacter that I beleive the ashphalt guys use. He has already graded my backyard along with my neighbours and came in with this big compacter. He used the tamperer only for the corners and around the edging. He has been doing this for 25 years. I think part of the reason he is giving me a good deal is because I referred my neighbour and also because my development is new and maybe he is looking to get some business. He also knows my cousin. I have seen his work and others have told me that his driveway work is very good. When he started my backyard and my neighbours he came in with 4 machines and 3 guys (older experienced guys-not kids) this is no wheel barrow mom and pop job. He started at 7am and finished at 3pm. It took him 8 hours to compact and grade about 2000 sq ft.


In saying that, I will definiley get the warranty.

markethound80
05-19-2009, 09:47 PM
what does this seperation membrane look like?

4 seasons lawn&land
05-19-2009, 10:03 PM
huh? :confused:

hardscapers didn't invent "road base" methods or materials ya know. a good asphalt installer will prepare their base in a nearly identical fashion to a paver installer. the main exception being they use better equipment... large rollers and power screeds.

that said, good asphalt installers are far and few between.

one of the better pavement guys in this area uses Mirafi HP under all their driveways, on top of which they lay and roll a 12" base under their 4" of asphalt. i'd be more than happy to install pavers on their base.



oh I had no idea. I dont do pavement, never seen it in the prep stages either.

AztlanLC
05-20-2009, 10:13 PM
That's the way to do it. They'll lose ~2" of gravel with the asphalt tear out. They should rake and compact whatever is left and screed and compact a new finish layer. On top of that they should place a separation membrane between the gravel and their paver bedding sand. From there on out it's pretty straight forward... just make sure they use a polymeric sand...




Sounds like you're an informed consumer so just keep it that way and get all the installation detail in writing.

They definitely CAN make decent money at the price given based on the information you've provided. That's a good thing because if they're not making money you're probably not getting quality.

Unless the asphalt is 4" or the pavers are 1" thick they are going to need more base material.
Why use a separation fabric between base and bedding sand?

How does the driveway look like now, is it in good shape, any major settlements? if all looks good after couple season, most likely this is a good base for pavers.

soopa
05-20-2009, 11:57 PM
Unless the asphalt is 4" or the pavers are 1" thick they are going to need more base material.

Yea one way or the other there will be some base necessary, but it shouldn't be more then a lift.

Why use a separation fabric between base and bedding sand?

Because ICPI studies have shown that doing so on pavements receiving sustained or repeated loads can significantly extend the pavements service life. It prevents migration of the bedding sand into the base layer. It's a relatively inexpensive piece of insurance, especially considering you don't need to use a stabilization fabric, just a separation fabric.

markethound80
05-21-2009, 02:38 PM
Driveway is 2 years old and is still in great shape. No major settlements of any kind. Base looks to be good.

MassSteelerfan
06-06-2009, 02:21 AM
pavers need a bigger base compacted in layers. You will definately end up with tire ruts if he does it the way he says.

soopa
06-06-2009, 10:15 AM
pavers need a bigger base compacted in layers. You will definately end up with tire ruts if he does it the way he says.

you have no idea what you're saying.

you don't know what kind of base is under that asphalt. if done properly it's just as good if not better then the base any hardscaper would install.

base is compacted in layers because hardscapers don't use large enough equipment. lift size is all based on machine size.

most good asphalt installers do 2 6" lifts with a large ride-on roller. they aim for maximum proctor density just as we do. the means or the method is irrelevant.