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View Full Version : Bad Wheel motor, pump, or air in system?


lsylvain
05-19-2009, 04:08 PM
I have an exmark 60" hydro. pre 1995 model I just got. The hydos were working fine when I bought it and drove it around. I bought it, put it on the trailer and when I got home the left tire had no drive forward or reverse. It sat for a year before I bought it and apeared to have new hoses so I thought maybe had air in the system. How can I tell what the culprit is without spending $1000 on a $500 machine?

thanks,

puppypaws
05-19-2009, 04:23 PM
I have an exmark 60" hydro. pre 1995 model I just got. The hydos were working fine when I bought it and drove it around. I bought it, put it on the trailer and when I got home the left tire had no drive forward or reverse. It sat for a year before I bought it and apeared to have new hoses so I thought maybe had air in the system. How can I tell what the culprit is without spending $1000 on a $500 machine?

thanks,

Jack it up to get the rear wheels off the ground, (make sure it is very stable) sit on the mower and activate the hydraulics by pushing the steering handles forward about 1/3 of wide open. Hold them in this position while looking at your rear wheels to see if they are both turning. This will purge any air from the system, I hope this is your problem but seriously doubt it. Make sure the hydraulic by-pass valves are completely closed, the ones you open if you need to pull the mower in free wheel.

lsylvain
05-19-2009, 05:28 PM
Jack it up to get the rear wheels off the ground, (make sure it is very stable) sit on the mower and activate the hydraulics by pushing the steering handles forward about 1/3 of wide open. Hold them in this position while looking at your rear wheels to see if they are both turning. This will purge any air from the system, I hope this is your problem but seriously doubt it. Make sure the hydraulic by-pass valves are completely closed, the ones you open if you need to pull the mower in free wheel.

Yeah I already tried that. I'm getting some movement in the left but not much. If I turn the wheel by hand I can hear what sounds like fluid getting pushed around, but it is very easy to turn the wheel. Not as easy as freewheel but pretty close.

There has to be a way i can test the pump and wheel motor seperatly?

KensLawnCare
05-19-2009, 05:30 PM
make sure the hydro there is a screw to turn on the pumps so it will be nuetral make sure its turned tight

KensLawnCare
05-19-2009, 05:32 PM
did you check fluid levels maybe needs changed

lsylvain
05-19-2009, 05:48 PM
make sure the hydro there is a screw to turn on the pumps so it will be nuetral make sure its turned tight

nope not the problem. All the routine checks have been done. How do I find out if pump or wheel motor is the issue?

puppypaws
05-19-2009, 09:27 PM
Yeah I already tried that. I'm getting some movement in the left but not much. If I turn the wheel by hand I can hear what sounds like fluid getting pushed around, but it is very easy to turn the wheel. Not as easy as freewheel but pretty close.

There has to be a way i can test the pump and wheel motor seperatly?

Are you able to turn the other wheel by hand?

Remove the wheel, the wheel motor has two ports where hoses hook up now. Remove the ports and plug your flow meter in, if pump test OK four bolts and remove wheel motor.

If you are not experienced at this; you need to pay service person. If a pump or wheel motor has gone bad, the system is contaminated more than likely.

lsylvain
05-19-2009, 10:49 PM
What if I flip the hoses so that the right pump goes to the left wheel motor. If the wheel still doesn't run then I know it is the wheel motor, and if it does I know it is the pump.

Also is there a fail proof way to bleed the system? I'm nearly certain there is a big air pocket in the top of the left hoses. They are the highest point in the system and I swear I can hear it "sputter" when I turn the wheel by hand. I've bled it several times and each time the wheel will turn slowly for maybe 5 rotations and stop and I get a lot of bubbles in the tank.

puppypaws
05-19-2009, 11:01 PM
What if I flip the hoses so that the right pump goes to the left wheel motor. If the wheel still doesn't run then I know it is the wheel motor, and if it does I know it is the pump.

Also is there a fail proof way to bleed the system? I'm nearly certain there is a big air pocket in the top of the left hoses. They are the highest point in the system and I swear I can hear it "sputter" when I turn the wheel by hand. I've bled it several times and each time the wheel will turn slowly for maybe 5 rotations and stop and I get a lot of bubbles in the tank.

This is straight out of the Exmark operators manual. I have seen this before where people did not run the mower long enough to purge all the air. These are the exact instructions, try this before anything else.

QUOTE:

f) Raise the rear of machine up and support with jack stands (or equivalent
support) just high enough to allow drive wheels to turn freely.
g) Start engine and move throttle control ahead to full throttle position. Move
the speed control levers to the full speed and run for several minutes. Shut
down machine and recheck oil level.

Allens LawnCare
05-19-2009, 11:09 PM
What if I flip the hoses so that the right pump goes to the left wheel motor. If the wheel still doesn't run then I know it is the wheel motor, and if it does I know it is the pump.

Also is there a fail proof way to bleed the system? I'm nearly certain there is a big air pocket in the top of the left hoses. They are the highest point in the system and I swear I can hear it "sputter" when I turn the wheel by hand. I've bled it several times and each time the wheel will turn slowly for maybe 5 rotations and stop and I get a lot of bubbles in the tank.

I've been told that if there is air in the system, you'll be pushing Hydro fluid out of the reservoir...the tees in the hydro system go bad or become loose, you would think a leak or crack would leak out of the system but it draws air in which forces the hydro fluid out!

Allens LawnCare
05-19-2009, 11:11 PM
Have you checked the dampers or the shaft out of the pump for excessive wear

lsylvain
05-20-2009, 06:14 AM
I've been told that if there is air in the system, you'll be pushing Hydro fluid out of the reservoir...the tees in the hydro system go bad or become loose, you would think a leak or crack would leak out of the system but it draws air in which forces the hydro fluid out!

You know what, I didn't think about that. I saw a bunch of fluid on on the reservoir, I had just filled it so just thought I had spilled. It did seem to be a lot of fluid to have spilled.

Allens LawnCare
05-20-2009, 03:33 PM
I have a 52inch hp and my right hydro is weak. I guess the shaft out of the pump on my is worn out a little so it doesn't grab all the way....sucks...I can replace it but it would cost almost as much between labor and parts as it would to just buy a new pump. Good luck.....Let us know what you find

lsylvain
05-20-2009, 07:57 PM
well, I have the wheel motor turning for a minute or two at a time. Very slow and very week. I just kept bleeding the system as best I could over and over and over. It definatly had air in it.

With the engine running and in full forward speed if I turn the wheel motor by hand I start to get fluid coming out of the tank, but only if I turn the wheel by hand so to me that says I don't have a leak but I do have an air pocket that I just can't seem to get out. Maybe I should just rig up a way to catch all the fluid so it doesn't make such a mess and just keep spinning the wheel motor by hand until it stops pushing fluid out the top of the tank?

Anyone know if I could hook up a vaccume pump somehow to speed the bleeding process?

I really don't think it could be the pump or wheel motor. Wouldn't it have gotten weak then crapped out? I mean it was fine I drove it around for quite a while and put it on the trailer. Then 10 min later at my house it has no power at all.

Allens LawnCare
06-06-2009, 08:11 AM
How'd you make out!

puppypaws
06-06-2009, 09:05 AM
How'd you make out!

I would also like to know how things worked out, and if there were problems outside of the bleeding procedure?

lsylvain
06-06-2009, 05:24 PM
I have not had 2 seconds to even look at it in almost a week. I think I had the worst week of my life this week.

Tuesday one of my guys doesn't show and we were already behind because of the rain.

Wed the ignition went on one of the trimmers

thursday I broke a leaf spring on the trailer and the electrical system on my main mower went.

Friday, I fixed the electrical problem on the mower and got the trailer back from the shop only to have the blade switch burn out on the mower 3' in the first lawn, so it took us 5 hours to mow 4 lawns.

Today, loading one of the walkbehinds one of the guys snagged the wire harness on it and riped it out. plus a bunch of other little things along with training a new guy.

so now i'm going to have to spend all day tomorrow fixing crap so I can try to get something done next week..

puppypaws
06-06-2009, 05:39 PM
I have not had 2 seconds to even look at it in almost a week. I think I had the worst week of my life this week.

Tuesday one of my guys doesn't show and we were already behind because of the rain.

Wed the ignition went on one of the trimmers

thursday I broke a leaf spring on the trailer and the electrical system on my main mower went.

Friday, I fixed the electrical problem on the mower and got the trailer back from the shop only to have the blade switch burn out on the mower 3' in the first lawn, so it took us 5 hours to mow 4 lawns.

Today, loading one of the walkbehinds one of the guys snagged the wire harness on it and riped it out. plus a bunch of other little things along with training a new guy.

so now i'm going to have to spend all day tomorrow fixing crap so I can try to get something done next week..

Man, I am sorry for all your aggravation but those days come with life sometimes. Believe me, we have all had our share, and if we continue to live there will be more to deal with along the way. Try and get a good nights sleep, things have a tendency to look better the next day. I always try to think, no matter how bad something may be, there is always a worse.

lsylvain
12-26-2009, 04:16 PM
I forgot about this post. I figure it out a long time ago. what it was was a bad fitting on the wheel motor. It was not bad enough to leak fluid but what was happening is when it would roll around with the engine off on the trailer it would suck air into the system. This caused the charge pump to go. I found a used one for $20.00 and a new fitting and that was that. $30.00 fix. It just took some time.