Just took TX Irrigator test

[pro-irrigators]

I took the Texas Irrigator test Friday in Mesquite.. That thing was all there.... it was really tough... I have four other licenses in the medical field and none of them were 8 hr exams with a 30% pass rate...I feel pretty confident about it ...I guess i will just wait and see in 4-6 wks...

[DanaMac]

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

good job.

[Mike Leary]

Now you're ready for the real world, welcome to the forum.

[EagleLandscape]

...if medical professional took the irrigation test... I guarantee you the pass rate would be around 99%. If the typical irrigation guy took a medical profession test, the pass rate would be 1%...

Just something to sit and think about:)

[Waterlogged]

Congratulations we need more Texans on the forum:clapping::clapping:

[Mike Leary]

...if medical professional took the irrigation test... I guarantee you the pass rate would be around 99%. If the typical irrigation guy took a medical profession test, the pass rate would be 1%...


Seems like it would be the other way around, since we charge more than they do.

[esnipe8]

Seems like it would be the other way around, since we charge more than they do.

Good Luck!!!:clapping:

[mitchgo]

I wonder if I would pass it, we don't have any tests up here. All of my knowledge was passed down from others

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Love your City name. Maybe it will supply whatever luck you need.
Welcome to the site and don't be a stranger.

[mitchgo]

Love your City name. Maybe it will supply whatever luck you need.
Welcome to the site and don't be a stranger.

It almost sounds like Cloverfield... Which I love that movie. Everyone I talk to hate's it. I love the style of it

[dlee1996]

I did not think the test was that bad. Hope you pass it. I have heard that the pass rating in N. Texas is much higher than 30%. The people down south bring the % down.:dizzy:

[hoskm01]

Congratulations we need more Texans on the forum:clapping::clapping:
Like we all need a hole in the head!

[Mike Leary]

Congratulations we need more Texans on the forum:clapping::clapping:

::::::buys more stock in the "Six Inch Pit Box Company"::::::::

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

::::::buys more stock in the "Six Inch Pit Box Company"::::::::

I had a thought the other day that because we scatter our valves that when they come up with a decent soil moisture sensor that can be put inline of existing zone wires our valves are scattered in their area of concern.

[Wet_Boots]

Great, more buried crapola to worry about.

[Kiril]

I had a thought the other day that because we scatter our valves that when they come up with a decent soil moisture sensor that can be put inline of existing zone wires our valves are scattered in their area of concern.

That is the first and only valid argument you (or anyone) has made for the scattered TX nonsense.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

That is the first and only valid argument you (or anyone) has made for the scattered TX nonsense.

Besides saving on material.

[Wet_Boots]

Besides saving on material.Waste of copper. :hammerhead:

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Waste of copper. :hammerhead:

Copper? PVC dude.

[Wet_Boots]

Poly, by golly. And it probably can be recycled.

[hoskm01]

Copper? PVC dude.
Wiring????

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Wiring????

cheaper/easier to run/lower labor cost

[Mike Leary]

cheaper/easier to run/lower labor cost

:dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

:dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:

Take a manifold design. redesign it placing the valves in the area they water, add up the pipe footage. Assuming you minimize pipes as you drop down in gpm you will see that running wire is cheaper than running multiple larger pipes. For example if you manifold in the front and have three zones in the back that is three 1" pipes that have to be crammed in the ditch when it could be 1 1" pipe and wire. It isn't rocket science. Manifolds add cost and labor.

[Wet_Boots]

Use poly like a real pro does, and leave the copper resources alone (to make more cartridge brass for your ammo dump)

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Poly is for limp wrists:p

[Mike Leary]

Poly is for limp wrists:p

Not if you've ever had to lay 1 1/2" 200 psi poly.

[DanaMac]

Manifolds add cost and labor.

Not if you're pulling the pipe.

[txgrassguy]

Not if you're pulling the pipe.

Dana, we have been over this many times - unless the site in Texas is free of rocks the soil construct isn't suitable for pulling poly.
Trenching is the norm here, usually accompanied by a jack hammer or a large hammer drill.
Even the utility dudes rock saw in front of the pipe/wire pulling machine.

[unit28]

I lived in TX for 40 years...most of west TX is caliche soil. Anyone know how to water caliche soil?..LOL

Anyway, I irrigated there for 6 yrs and now I'm in MN.

The manifolds are more expensive in the long run.
Bust 1 valve and you'll see. at least 65% chance you'll replace
.... all the valves.

And why do they {TCEQ} think the TX BFPD's should be against the house?..There's no basement. The majority of poc's used to be off the curb, The last few I did install there, I had to dig down 4 feet next to the house to hit copper to tie into.

That's a huge difference. PVB's rule here, and they should have stuck with DCVA's there in TX. it's just a matter of T&L.

Off the curb, near the meter was an easy poc for DCVA's Plus the soil was a crap shoot depending on area. Here it's 99% sandy.

[Kiril]

Take a manifold design. redesign it placing the valves in the area they water, add up the pipe footage. Assuming you minimize pipes as you drop down in gpm you will see that running wire is cheaper than running multiple larger pipes. For example if you manifold in the front and have three zones in the back that is three 1" pipes that have to be crammed in the ditch when it could be 1 1" pipe and wire. It isn't rocket science. Manifolds add cost and labor.

You are right, it isn't rocket science. You put a 3 zone manifold in the back, like any designer worth their salt would do. More labor, I think not. Still gotta dig the trench. Plus, if the line is not constant pressure, doesn't need to go as deep.

Your scattered manifolds still ain't flying here bud. Plus I would be willing to bet even if it did cost more to manifold, the long term maint. of the system would still end up being cheaper.

[Kiril]

I lived in TX for 40 years...most of west TX is caliche soil. Anyone know how to water caliche soil?..LOL

What a dolt. :hammerhead:

[hoskm01]

Among the other silly things you Texans do... This bad boy is up for auction in Dubai.


http://www.rbauction.com/equipment_images/2009169/large/2339651_1.jpg (http://www.rbauction.com/common_scripts/gallery_full_view.jsp?auction_id=2009169&industry_id=0&equip_id=2339651&Search_results=All&Search_type=Advanced&img_num=20&page_type=0)

[Mike Leary]

Your scattered manifolds still ain't flying here bud. Plus I would be willing to bet even if it did cost more to manifold, the long term maint. of the system would still end up being cheaper.

And as we've dealt with, if a solenoid fries, in a manifold one can find the others with the 521.

[unit28]

What a dolt. :hammerhead:

oh yeah...
Yo mama teeth are so yellow traffic slows down when she smiles!

[unit28]

And as we've dealt with, if a solenoid fries, in a manifold one can find the others with the 521.

I agree, you can spot a 10x12 from a long way off.

:laugh:
that's one thing I like.

But valve centering seems to be more effecient.
FL are lower, Pipes are sized mainly for cost
saves money IMO

[hoskm01]

oh yeah...
Yo mama teeth are so yellow traffic slows down when she smiles!
6th grade is over, son.

[Mike Leary]

oh yeah...
Yo mama teeth are so yellow traffic slows down when she smiles!

You crossed the line, dickwad. :hammerhead:

[unit28]

6th grade is over, son.

dern, maybe he should have just called me stupid?:)

[unit28]

Crossed the line dickwad, back off.

being called a dolt
is cool huh?

[unit28]

good grief folks, chill out,
If someone starts name calling I think I can play along.
I am just chillin with the nice name caller...

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Among the other silly things you Texans do... This bad boy is up for auction in Dubai.


http://www.rbauction.com/equipment_images/2009169/large/2339651_1.jpg (http://www.rbauction.com/common_scripts/gallery_full_view.jsp?auction_id=2009169&industry_id=0&equip_id=2339651&Search_results=All&Search_type=Advanced&img_num=20&page_type=0)

No you got it all wrong. That is what you need to put in a 6 pipe friggin goofball of a manifold system. We can get our stuff in 2" wide ditches because we aren't such dolts to run 6 pipes in a ditch.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

good grief folks, chill out,
If someone starts name calling I think I can play along.
I am just chillin with the nice name caller...

I think they truly are put off by us Unit.

[unit28]

I think they truly are put off by us Unit.

yes, it's a TX thang

Thumbs Up

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

yes, it's a tx thang

thumbs up

c'mon home son!

[unit28]

No way,
I find the sub freezing cold temperature for 9 months very refreshing.

[Mike Leary]

c'mon home son!

::::The remake of "Shane", staring Peter as Allan Ladd and ROTAR as Brandon De Wilde::::: showing at distributors in Texas only.

[hoskm01]

dern, maybe he should have just called me stupid?:)
Stupid, sophomoric, lame... Whats the difference?

[Kiril]

being called a dolt
is cool huh?

Given your posts in that other thread, and your "between the lines" dig, I would say it was more than appropriate.

[unit28]

Given your posts in that other thread, and your "between the lines" dig, I would say it was more than appropriate.
Mr Name caller. In another thread, I simply stated a differnce in soil. No jabs or inappropriate content.

so, what are you defending?:confused:

Did I attack you? No dig was intended,
But since you took it that way I apologize

[Kiril]

Mr Name caller. In another thread, I simply stated a differnce in soil. No jabs or inappropriate content.

Really? Let's let the others decide. Start on post #16 and ends on #61.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=275946

[unit28]

oh let me help you here


---------------------

HA HA HAHAAAAAA.
To funny,
K, have you been to Abilene, or to TX for that matter.....ROTFL

4 times a week is nothing for that climate.

[ARGOS]

Could you guys please leave it on the pesticide forum.

[unit28]

I found it humourus because you have not been there and you compared it to California soil

Cali is coastal. West Tx is far from it.

[Kiril]

Could you guys please leave it on the pesticide forum.

I would typically agree if it didn't have to do with irrigation. Nuff chit over there to drown in.

[unit28]

I would typically agree if it didn't have to do with irrigation. Nuff chit over there to drown in.

I do appreciate the fact that you were letting me know it was offensive.
I am sorry.

[Mike Leary]

ROTAR's long lost brother surfaces ; abducted by Lawn Genie gypsies and forced into posting with Kiril on other forums. :dizzy:

[Kiril]

I found it humourus because you have not been there and you compared it to California soil

Cali is coastal. West Tx is far from it.

Dude,

1) You have no idea where I have been.

2) CA is not all coastal. FYI, the central valley, and most all the inland valleys (if I am not mistaken) have soil types similar to Abilene (i.e. alluvium parent material, loam and clay loams).

You need to take a look at a soil order map some time dude.

ftp://ftp-fc.sc.egov.usda.gov/NSSC/pub/orders/soil_orders_98.pdf

[unit28]

Dude,

1) You have no idea where I have been.

2) CA is not all coastal. FYI, the central valley, and most all the inland valleys (if I am not mistaken) have soil types similar to Abilene (i.e. alluvium parent material, loam and clay loams).

You need to take a look at a soil order map some time dude.

ftp://ftp-fc.sc.egov.usda.gov/NSSC/pub/orders/soil_orders_98.pdf

dude, ya forgot to add silt...:cry:
look up adobe soil.
And what is loam concentuated of..some sand?
The soil is blah blah blah calichie, so there...:waving:

[Mike Leary]

Dude, You have no idea where I have been.

Hey, ROTAR is asking for pics, where's yours?

[Kiril]

dude, ya forgot to add silt...:cry:
look up adobe soil.
And what is loam concentuated of..some sand?
The soil is blah blah blah calichie, so there...:waving:

Clearly you did not read the soil report. Perhaps you should inform the USDA and the NRCS that their soil survey is wrong.

Silt ... yes, there is some silt in a loam, and a clay loam, and a silty clay loam, and a sandy clay loam, ...............

Have you ever looked at a soil textural triangle? :dizzy:

http://www.soilsensor.com/images/soiltriangle_large.jpg

Let's not mention your irrigation calculations. :cry:

[Mike Leary]

:::Nice men in white put Kiril in his jamies and rabbit-head slippers::::::

[unit28]

West Texas has Adobe Soil which is a sandy clay. Without water, our soil becomes hard.
Adobe Soil when mixed with grass, straw, water, poured into a brick mold, and left to sun dry, will turn into a brick substance. The type that was used in the old days to build southwestern and Mexico houses. Since there is very little rain fall in West Texss and Mexico, these houses could stand for hundreds of years. Patching was very easy, just whip up a batch of soil, straw and water, patch, and let sun dry to harden.

You are probably now asking yourself how ANYTHING could possible grow in such soil. All it takes is "water".

-------
I can tel you that my calcs are spot on.
I have had great success{more ways than one to skin a cat} watering this soil.

[hoskm01]

dude, ya forgot to add silt...:cry:
look up adobe soil.
And what is loam concentuated of..some sand?
The soil is blah blah blah calichie, so there...:waving:
Junior. You'll never win, especially since you are wrong anyway.


And while we are lerning you reel good... Adobe is simply clay, when referred to, though it never should be, as soil. Adobe, used by the indians, was composed of clay, sand and some organic binder thence cooked or baked after a shape or design was achieved, thus giving them a hardened material of many uses. Lest you are working in a city full of indian ruins, you are not, do not and wont have "Adobe" soil.

[Kiril]

West Texas has Adobe Soil which is a sandy clay. Without water, our soil becomes hard.
Adobe Soil when mixed with grass, straw, water, poured into a brick mold, and left to sun dry, will turn into a brick substance. The type that was used in the old days to build southwestern and Mexico houses. Since there is very little rain fall in West Texss and Mexico, these houses could stand for hundreds of years. Patching was very easy, just whip up a batch of soil, straw and water, patch, and let sun dry to harden.

And hence the dolt remark. No point in going any further, you clearly aren't up to speed on soils. BTW, I have posted docs on how to make adobe clay bricks at least 3 times on these forums over the years.

I can tel you that my calcs are spot on. I have had great success{more ways than one to skin a cat} watering this soil.

Really? An irrigation requirement of 9 in/month, and you call that spot on (assuming you were talking about the ET of the OPs turf).

Using the formula you obviously are using, irrigation requirement of 2.75 in/month on average in June without taking into consideration the multitude of other factors.

Let's assume 1.5 in/hour PR (consistent with MPR's at 30 PSI and square spacing) ... and your 12 min 4 times a week (which is nothing according to you).

That leaves you with a weekly application of ~ 1.2 inches. Now lets compare that to the recommended application using your preferred formula.

1.2 * 4 = 4.8 in/month - 2.75 in/month = 2.05 in/month

Amount over watered according to your preferred formula = 2.05 inches, and that is for June, not May.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Jeeez...Get our hairs caught in the zipper here?

[unit28]

Junior. You'll never win, especially since you are wrong anyway.


And while we are lerning you reel good... Adobe is simply clay, .

Sir, check that spelling. Unless were fishing together and lernin something cool.

Like Adobe, caliche, hard pan, silt, sandy clay, loam...ya know.
Something besides a pissin contest, that K made me so sick I threw up.

Nice Waleye here if ya want to come on.

Adobe is a term, many things compose soil.
BTW...In your honor, I'm moving to Colorado.
------------------

As far as Krill, he's soooo innocent.

I do like some of his post and I do learn a few things from him.
But ya know, there's a few things left to be desired.

As far as watering the arid hard soil, ya gotta do something besides run a zone 30 minutes once a week. heck it's St Augustine...shallow roots.
And the zones are sprays. First thing your doing is creating run off.

I was refering to splitting the run times and watering more frequently.
It worked for me.


-----------------

Quick Peter.... make a damn Pizza

And go take the Unit 28 soil test..fun stuff!

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

I agree with Unit. You water the turf you have not the turf you want to have. Turf doesn't smell water and then chases it deeper. There are many places that you aren't going to get more than an inch of turf roots. In Texas you better water that every day when it gets to 100 degrees. Maybe after years of composting and building a soil on top of the native soil you might be able to cut back the frequency. Compost doesn't magically replace the existing soil base. The reality is that most turf areas are rarely prepped properly. Take a core sample and base your frequency on that sample not the sample you have wet dreams about.

[Wet_Boots]

Send me a nice three-pound walleye. Them's good eatin' !!

[unit28]

I agree with Unit. You water the turf you have not the turf you want to have. Turf doesn't smell water and then chases it deeper. There are many places that you aren't going to get more than an inch of turf roots. In Texas you better water that every day when it gets to 100 degrees. Maybe after years of composting and building a soil on top of the native soil you might be able to cut back the frequency. Compost doesn't magically replace the existing soil base. The reality is that most turf areas are rarely prepped properly. Take a core sample and base your frequency on that sample not the sample you have wet dreams about.

I took lots of temp readings...Many Many days the turf top is over 120.

With compact soil you need amendments to capture water. Aeration will only carry you so far. Otherwise you need the frquency

[unit28]

Send me a nice three-pound walleye. Them's good eatin' !!

I took the grandkids fishing...LOL
All I caught was tangled fishing line.

[Wet_Boots]

I miss walleye fishing. Never caught enough of them to get tired of the taste.

[Mike Leary]

I miss walleye fishing. Never caught enough of them to get tired of the taste.

Are they like trout?

[DanaMac]

Are they like trout?

Taste like chicken

[Wet_Boots]

Walleye somehow tasted like more. Fuller? Sweeter? Not sure exactly what, but they sure put northern pike in the shade, when compared side-by-side.

[hoskm01]

Sir, check that spelling. Unless were fishing together and lernin something cool.



Nice Waleye here if ya want to come on.

Adobe is a term, many things compose soil.
BTW...In your honor, I'm moving to Colorado.



The misspellings were intentional; perhaps my tone wasn't clearly communicated despite the topic.

Ive got a fairly major river in the backyard with trout. Could learn the walleye gig, though trout I love.

I agree with Unit. You water the turf you have not the turf you want to have. Turf doesn't smell water and then chases it deeper.


So when you sod, you should continue to water three times daily forever? You should water the turf you have, but you should water in stride of the turf you want.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

I agree with Unit. You water the turf you develop not the turf you want to develop. Turf doesn't smell water and then chases it deeper.

I meant what you said Hosk but I changed have to develop. Does that sentence pass muster? I realize as the turf grows watering can be adjusted BUT it still may never get very deep. It is always a good idea to take core samples to monitor root depth. The deeper the roots the less frequency and the greater the duration with each watering.

[Kiril]

So when you sod, you should continue to water three times daily forever? You should water the turf you have, but you should water in stride of the turf you want.

Agreed. You need to water based on what rooting depth you wish to achieve. Nothing is to be gained by only watering to a 1" depth, regardless of your turf type.

FYI boys, the effective/potential rooting depth of St Augustine is 8-16 inches, I wouldn't call that shallow rooting by any stretch. Do we need a short course on effective turf rooting depths?

How many of you use soil profiling to determine rooting depth and wetting depth?

How many times do I have to stress that irrigation management is more than just turning water on and off every couple of days? :dizzy:

[Kiril]

Hey Unit, get a clue!

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=106876&d=1208868280

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107431&d=1209391814

Now do you wanna talk about irrigating heavy soils in a semi-arid environment?

[Kiril]

I agree with Unit. You water the turf you have not the turf you want to have. Turf doesn't smell water and then chases it deeper. There are many places that you aren't going to get more than an inch of turf roots. In Texas you better water that every day when it gets to 100 degrees. Maybe after years of composting and building a soil on top of the native soil you might be able to cut back the frequency. Compost doesn't magically replace the existing soil base. The reality is that most turf areas are rarely prepped properly. Take a core sample and base your frequency on that sample not the sample you have wet dreams about.

Pete, no offense, but I expect better from you.

[Wet_Boots]

isn't it all silty loam in the end

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Pete, no offense, but I expect better from you.

In that example you posted what is your root depth? Potential VS Actual. Water for potential waste a lot of water. water for actual then you maintain at minimum waste. Nature will give the hard deep rains and if the turf develops a deeper root system as a result great then change your watering to take advantage of it. But watering deep when you only have an 1" of roots and treating it like an 8" root zone is going to get poor results.

[hoskm01]

In that example you posted what is your root depth? Potential VS Actual. Water for potential waste a lot of water. water for actual then you maintain at minimum waste. Nature will give the hard deep rains and if the turf develops a deeper root system as a result great then change your watering to take advantage of it. But watering deep when you only have an 1" of roots and treating it like an 8" root zone is going to get poor results.
Poor results at first, perhaps. But, if you continue to water shallow, how will you ever encourage the roots deeper. Why go deep when they can stay shallow.

I am dealing with this issue with one of our HOA's we took over for full scope maintenance this year. "Adobe" soil that was watered, for the last 7 years at 5-6 times weekly for the ENTIRE season. The board realizes the effectiveness of deeper, more infrequent watering for the health of the turf and the effectiveness of the 20 million gallons they WERE dispensing annually on irrigation. It is already stressing the turf this year, and we are routinely in the 70's, we are watering twice per week with three as our max for the year. Homeowners will require some explaination why the grass isnt lush at every turn of the corner, all year long. But the season will encourage deeper rooting and the following season will be easier, and easier the next, all the while, reducing water use.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Poor results at first, perhaps. But, if you continue to water shallow, how will you ever encourage the roots deeper. Why go deep when they can stay shallow.

I am dealing with this issue with one of our HOA's we took over for full scope maintenance this year. "Adobe" soil that was watered, for the last 7 years at 5-6 times weekly for the ENTIRE season. The board realizes the effectiveness of deeper, more infrequent watering for the health of the turf and the effectiveness of the 20 million gallons they WERE dispensing annually on irrigation. It is already stressing the turf this year, and we are routinely in the 70's, we are watering twice per week with three as our max for the year. Homeowners will require some explaination why the grass isnt lush at every turn of the corner, all year long. But the season will encourage deeper rooting and the following season will be easier, and easier the next, all the while, reducing water use.

If you can pull it off power to you. This is why I mentioned in another post in another thread the potential for hands on water management vs ET and auto adjust water management. I have a deep root system at my house because I stayed a step ahead of stressing the turf with my watering. As time went on I kept pushing the envelop. It would be very difficult to achieve that with soil sensors because they would have to be dug up and reset at lower depths in small increments. My theory is to take advantage as much as you can by the deep rains nature gives you combined with frequent on/off controller adjustments. In my clay soil if I get too carried away being stingy I can create a very difficult to break soil surface and will have to pour gobs of water on to get the deep watering done.

[Mike Leary]

I don't see "adobe" on my Smartline. :dizzy:

[Kiril]

In that example you posted what is your root depth?

Don't know. It is some guys yard in Abilene.

Potential VS Actual. Water for potential waste a lot of water. water for actual then you maintain at minimum waste. Nature will give the hard deep rains and if the turf develops a deeper root system as a result great then change your watering to take advantage of it. But watering deep when you only have an 1" of roots and treating it like an 8" root zone is going to get poor results.

Hogwash. It takes water to grow roots. No water, no roots. You water shallow, you get shallow roots. Water too much (i.e. never drains to field capacity), you get shallow roots. Water deeper and deeper as your roots grow, therefore maximizing your water usage while promoting deep rooting, better drought tolerance, better nutrient use, etc... In short deeper roots leads to reduced irrigation frequency, reduced losses, but I'm sure you know that.

[Kiril]

If you can pull it off power to you. This is why I mentioned in another post in another thread the potential for hands on water management vs ET and auto adjust water management. I have a deep root system at my house because I stayed a step ahead of stressing the turf with my watering. As time went on I kept pushing the envelop.

Good.

It would be very difficult to achieve that with soil sensors because they would have to be dug up and reset at lower depths in small increments.

Not sure I agree here.

My theory is to take advantage as much as you can by the deep rains nature gives you combined with frequent on/off controller adjustments.

And what if there is no rain?

In my clay soil if I get too carried away being stingy I can create a very difficult to break soil surface and will have to pour gobs of water on to get the deep watering done.

You will never be able to dry the profile at a significant depth (in a clay soil) before the turf takes a major hit, therefore you won't have to pour on "gobs" of water.

[unit28]

Major parts of the lawn are exposed.
They have been in a drought since last fall...no rain what so evah, until recently.
The temps have been above 90.

Running sprays at 30Mn's right now is not a way to promote deep roots, until further adjustments. Your IR is very low with exposed soil. The Maximum PR per H is .25 but there again exposed compact soil

The other thing is large mature trees. It may not take much to get the field to constant It may allow the frequency to be less, But the trees may say otherwise. I always liked big trees with St Augustine, it kept the area humidity down after watering. But sucked the available moisture away from turf.

Where I lived the clay was dense, much like me. Frequency is more prudent,
especially under these temps, hydrozones and soil IR, they are what they are.

[unit28]

I took the Texas Irrigator test Friday in Mesquite.. That thing was all there.... it was really tough... I have four other licenses in the medical field and none of them were 8 hr exams with a 30% pass rate...I feel pretty confident about it ...I guess i will just wait and see in 4-6 wks...

good luck with it!

Mr's Lewis was a school teacher. When she took it, she said it was the hardest test she ever took.

[hoskm01]

Major parts of the lawn are exposed.
They have been in a drought since last fall...no rain what so evah, until recently.
The temps have been above 90.

Running sprays at 30Mn's right now is not a way to promote deep roots, until further adjustments. Your IR is very low with exposed soil. The Maximum PR per H is .25 but there again exposed compact soil

The other thing is large mature trees. It may not take much to get the field to constant It may allow the frequency to be less, But the trees may say otherwise. I always liked big trees with St Augustine, it kept the area humidity down after watering. But sucked the available moisture away from turf.

Where I lived the clay was dense, much like me. Frequency is more prudent,
especially under these temps, hydrozones and soil IR, they are what they are.
30 min all at once? Tried/considered cycle/soak?

[unit28]

30 min all at once? Tried/considered cycle/soak?

that is always a possibility too,
heck the situation is less than idea.

It's like watching the weather man....

some people are better off hanging their head out the winder to know what's what.

[hoskm01]

that is always a possibility too,
heck the situation is less than idea.

It's like watching the weather man....

some people are better off hanging their head out the winder to know what's what.
Unless you're watering sand, I dont think there is any other way than cycle/soak, any type of turf, any time, any state.

[Mike Leary]

Unless you're watering sand, I dont think there is any other way than cycle/soak, any type of turf, any time, any state.

What rocky boy said. If you're t&m, go multiple start times.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Don't know. It is some guys yard in Abilene.



Hogwash. It takes water to grow roots. No water, no roots. You water shallow, you get shallow roots. Water too much (i.e. never drains to field capacity), you get shallow roots. Water deeper and deeper as your roots grow, therefore maximizing your water usage while promoting deep rooting, better drought tolerance, better nutrient use, etc... In short deeper roots leads to reduced irrigation frequency, reduced losses, but I'm sure you know that.

You keep making a point that I keep trying to make. In order to make deep water mean anything you have to have deep roots. To achieve what I have highlighted in red takes hands on water management. I don't believe this can be achieved through sensor and/or ET based controllers.

[Mike Leary]

Put a sock it in, you two, you're both starting to sound like Peter Sellars in "Being There".

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Put a sock it in, you two, you're both starting to sound like Peter Sellars in "Being There".

and you are?

[Kiril]

You keep making a point that I keep trying to make. In order to make deep water mean anything you have to have deep roots. To achieve what I have highlighted in red takes hands on water management. I don't believe this can be achieved through sensor and/or ET based controllers.

.............. Am I?

I agree with Unit. You water the turf you have not the turf you want to have.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

At the risk of annoying Mike I'm posting another pic and a question for K.

Lets put the root depth at 8". Black clay but no hardpan. St. Aug. Full sun. 1"/hr with system. July in Dallas, TX. Don't worry about multi cycling just how long and how frequently?

[Kiril]

Unit, you are scary.

[Kiril]

At the risk of annoying Mike I'm posting another pic and a question for K.

Lets put the root depth at 8". Black clay but no hardpan. St. Aug. Full sun. 1"/hr with system. July in Dallas, TX. Don't worry about multi cycling just how long and how frequently?

You haven't established the bottom of the root zone. Plus you have a high water table .... at what depth is it?

Am I also supposed to magically account for precipitation?

What formula do you want me to use? The half assed one Unit tried to use, or the one I use. If the latter, I need more data.

BTW, care to divulge the water content of that sample? I'm betting it is pretty close, or at 10 on the Lincoln.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

You haven't established the bottom of the root zone. Plus you have a high water table .... at what depth is it?

Am I also supposed to magically account for precipitation?

What formula do you want me to use? The half assed one Unit tried to use, or the one I use. If the latter, I need more data.

Don't worry about a water table. In July in Dallas no additional precipitation. An avg of 8" of root depth. Your formula not Units.

[unit28]

MAD should only apply to well managed landscapes..:hammerhead:

[Kiril]

MAD should only apply to well managed landscapes..:hammerhead:

Comments like that will get you nowhere.

[unit28]

Comments like that will get you nowhere.

HUH? ..I'm generalizing a thought.
If you manage your soil correctly then I can see the use of MAD calcs for better efficency of irrigation.

BTW I am growing a garden in your honor.
It's a very sandy soil so tell me what I need. I'm planting a pumpkin,
and two cantalopes.

[Kiril]

Don't worry about a water table. In July in Dallas no additional precipitation. An avg of 8" of root depth. Your formula not Units.

OK Pete. If I agree to play the game, then you will do the same.

1) Need a pic of the hydrozone, or at least a description of all the plants involved and how they interact with the turf.

2) Provide the necessary data to utilize LIMP. I'll leave the "what" data as an educational journey for you.

3) Soil ... looks to be a sandy clay loam with good SOM. Is it indigenous or backfill? You can PM me the address so I can pull a soil survey on it.

BTW, I'm about to leave and probably won't be back online till tomorrow. Depends if I go and work on the house or not.

[Kiril]

HUH? ..I'm generalizing a thought.
If you manage your soil correctly then I can see the use of MAD calcs for better efficency of irrigation.

You and Boots should get together ... and leave soil and water management to the pros.

[unit28]

At the risk of annoying Mike I'm posting another pic and a question for K.

Lets put the root depth at 8". Black clay but no hardpan. St. Aug. Full sun. 1"/hr with system. July in Dallas, TX. Don't worry about multi cycling just how long and how frequently?

2 days weekly

12-16 min spray zones

Hydrolic MAD is sustained through well managed clayey loam soil and mature turf roots.

[Kiril]

Hydrolic MAD is sustained through well managed clayey loam soil and mature turf roots.

Why do people insist on posting without verification of knowledge? :dizzy:

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/cropsystems/components/DC3875d.html

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Okay let me add some parameters for our newbie TX irrigator to see what he can look forward to:

You show up at this house to check the system. First time you've ever been there. All checks out fine and yard looks great. 100% St. Aug with abelias on drip in the front bed. The soil is clay from a ribbon test. In repairing a few heads you notice a pretty good root system but in the shady areas you notice the root structure is a little thinner but fortunately the irrigator who lived there before put that on a separate zone. Unfortunately the power was out for a long time and the system came back on to water every day for 10 minutes. You have to get to your next service call in 1 hour and you are backed up two weeks. He does have a R/F sensor but this is not an ET system. It is July in the southwest. Don't worry about the drip for the abelias. The water is being applied at roughly 1"/hr from your best guess. The customer comes out and says" How do I set this thing to run?"

[DanaMac]

The customer comes out and says" How do I set this thing to run?"

"Any way you want ma'am. As long as the grass stays green it is healthy." :laugh:

[unit28]

Why do people insist on posting without verification of knowledge? :dizzy:

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/cropsystems/components/DC3875d.html

I'm the onsite manager, which is the sole purpose of pushing the on/off switch. Never underestimate the power of the finger.

-----------------------------
There's no harpan,
wind factor plays a role.
Stomata temps higher
Solor radiation higher
ET is higher
Mature Trees..bigger in TX
Well managed soil
so...your IR rate is going to be more higher.

root zone 8
WAC 1.0
MAD 5.6
ET 8.6

GPM at the highest zone...12?

Off to work.........

[Mike Leary]

Stomata temps higher

My kind of irrigator. :clapping:

[Kiril]

Okay let me add some parameters for our newbie TX irrigator to see what he can look forward to:

You show up at this house to check the system. First time you've ever been there. All checks out fine and yard looks great. 100% St. Aug with abelias on drip in the front bed. The soil is clay from a ribbon test. In repairing a few heads you notice a pretty good root system but in the shady areas you notice the root structure is a little thinner but fortunately the irrigator who lived there before put that on a separate zone. Unfortunately the power was out for a long time and the system came back on to water every day for 10 minutes. You have to get to your next service call in 1 hour and you are backed up two weeks. He does have a R/F sensor but this is not an ET system. It is July in the southwest. Don't worry about the drip for the abelias. The water is being applied at roughly 1"/hr from your best guess. The customer comes out and says" How do I set this thing to run?"

Fortunately I know the irrigator that used to live there, so I call him.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Fortunately I know the irrigator that used to live there, so I call him.

Prior to the SL ET. I used to wait for the grass to indicate beginnings stages of stress. Then I applied an 1" of water over a two day period (back to back). Shut the system back off and waited until it showed signs of stress again. If I had the stress come back within a week I upped the water to 1.5" spread over a three day period. Turned it off and waited again. I used a lot less water with my method than the SL ET does so if John Jr came to me and guaranteed a 50% water saving he would get killed. I also did it on a zone by zone basis. Only running the areas that showed signs of stress rather than the whole system. This is why I hate the lack of frequency adjustment in controllers. I would rather have a controller that adjusts frequency than amount. Figure out how to apply a 1/2" of water in the most efficient way possible and auto set the frequency between watering on a monthly basis. For example JAN once every two weeks then as you get to july/aug have it go every 4 days and then beginning in Sept start adding length between watering again. A controller that does that with a R/F sensor would be far more effective than an ET controller.

[Kiril]

Prior to the SL ET. I used to wait for the grass to indicate beginnings stages of stress. Then I applied an 1" of water over a two day period (back to back). Shut the system back off and waited until it showed signs of stress again. If I had the stress come back within a week I upped the water to 1.5" spread over a three day period. Turned it off and waited again. I used a lot less water with my method than the SL ET does so if John Jr came to me and guaranteed a 50% water saving he would get killed. I also did it on a zone by zone basis. Only running the areas that showed signs of stress rather than the whole system. This is why I hate the lack of frequency adjustment in controllers. I would rather have a controller that adjusts frequency than amount. Figure out how to apply a 1/2" of water in the most efficient way possible and auto set the frequency between watering on a monthly basis. For example JAN once every two weeks then as you get to july/aug have it go every 4 days and then beginning in Sept start adding length between watering again. A controller that does that with a R/F sensor would be far more effective than an ET controller.

So basically you are saying your safe setting is 30 minutes every 4 days (3.75 in/month) in July? If I were forced to wing a decision with limited knowledge I might have gone with every 5 days, 30 mins (3 in/month) for St. Augustine, but the safe bet would be a 4 day interval with limited knowledge.

So lets do a generic breakdown since you didn't provide the requested data. ;)

Assuming soil is a Huston Black-urban land complex and generic crop ET using that rough estimation formula Unit likes, water requirement is ~ 2.25 in/month or 0.075 in/day (30 day month) for Dallas in July for a warm season turf.

7.4 in/month x 0.6 x 0.5 = 2.22 in/month adjusted to 2.25 for calculation purposes

I choose the high stress factor cause I am more concerned with conserving water than having a lawn that can be compared to a golf course and also due to good root density at 8" depth.

So our soil has an available water supply (i.e. plant available water at field capacity) at 0 - 25 cm (~ 0 - 10 in depth) of ~ 4.25 cm of water or ~ 1.7 in.

Using the above data, plant available water should be used up in ~ 22 days (i.e. permanent wilting point is hit) assuming an effective rooting depth of 25 cm.

So our irrigation is ~ 1.5 in/month (4 day interval) and 0.75 in/month (5 day interval) beyond the turf requirement for the month of July assuming 1 in/hr PR.

This puts the irrigation system efficiency at 33% on the 4 day interval and 66% efficiency on the 5 day interval.

If we assume the system is at 66% efficiency, which is acceptable for a relatively good (not great) spray system, then the 5 day interval would most likely yield the best results with the least amount of water loss.

Sound about right?

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Yeah. I can actually stretch it to 7 days in July but if this was a customer system and was not going to be watched I'd put it on four. Parts have deeper roots than what I pictured. Many times the first 3' from the concrete around the perimeter will get in obvious stress but the center of the lawn will show no sign of stress. It just depends how far into the lawn I'll let it go before I pour the water on. It bounces back within a day.

[Kiril]

Using the above data, plant available water should be used up in ~ 22 days (i.e. permanent wilting point is hit) assuming an effective rooting depth of 25 cm.

To take this a bit further. Assuming the 0.075 in/day turf water use is correct, and we don't want to allow our soil to get below 50% field capacity (0.85 in), the interval could possibly be pushed to 11 days, however the run time would need to be increased to ~ 68 mins (assuming 66% system efficiency) to bring the soil back to field capacity (51 mins at PR of 1.0 in/hr and 100% efficiency + 16.83 min for losses).

So lets hear it. How long have you gone between irrigation events?

[Kiril]

Yeah. I can actually stretch it to 7 days in July

Considering the trees and the micro-climate factors that were not taken into account, that sounds about right based on the 11 day calculation.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

To take this a bit further. Assuming the 0.075 in/day turf water use is correct, and we don't want to allow our soil to get below 50% field capacity (0.85 in), the interval could possibly be pushed to 11 days, however the run time would need to be increased to ~ 68 mins (assuming 66% system efficiency) to bring the soil back to field capacity (51 mins at PR of 1.0 in/hr and 100% efficiency + 16.83 min for losses).

So lets hear it. How long have you gone between irrigation events?

Really couldn't give you an honest answer. I have had some long stretches. St. Aug with deep roots is far more water hardy than people realize.The city came by and checked my sprinkler meter once to make sure it was working okay because of the low water usage. I also will take advantage of soaking rains. This is another issue I have with the R/F sensors and SL ET. Failure to tell the difference between a 2" rain and a 1/4" rain.

But getting back to my main point Kiril. This is extremely difficult to achieve for a customer you see once a year without spending a fortune on high end water management equipment. An individual with an RC-7 and some hands on knowledgeable management can blow any irrigation water management system out of the water.

So if you have to set a controller for a customer and won't be back to make the adjustments you better set it to water the root system they have and not the one you believe can be achieved by good management. Otherwise they will go find another irrigator to crank the watering up.

[Kiril]

But getting back to my main point Kiril. This is extremely difficult to achieve for a customer you see once a year without spending a fortune on high end water management equipment. An individual with an RC-7 and some hands on knowledgeable management can blow any irrigation water management system out of the water.

A point I have made many times. One can develop a highly efficient schedule using historical ET values and appropriate considerations for environmental, plant, and system variability ....... but try to tell the resident WM rep that. :cry:

So if you have to set a controller for a customer and won't be back to make the adjustments you better set it to water the root system they have and not the one you believe can be achieved by good management.

This is rarely ever the case, but if it were, and I had a limited root zone (4" or less), I would target an irrigation depth of 6-8" assuming no confining layers or other compaction related issues that would prevent root penetration at good density to that depth.

Otherwise they will go find another irrigator to crank the watering up.

wouldn't be the first time ....... idiots