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View Full Version : What makes a scrub???


JimLewis
04-03-2002, 01:13 PM
In one sentence or less, list a defining characteristic of a scrub.

Krimick
04-03-2002, 01:18 PM
The guys who go door to door and offer to cut your lawn for $5 less then your currently being charged.....without even asking what your paying right now. That's a scrub.

Scraper
04-03-2002, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by Krimick
The guys who go door to door and offer to cut your lawn for $5 less then your currently being charged.....without even asking what your paying right now. That's a scrub.

WOW! I could't have said it any better myself!


Might I add...Someone who brings down the integrity of our profession thru indiscriminate means.

scott's turf
04-03-2002, 01:33 PM
Cheap ignorant home owners who don't care about quality, insurance, and legit businesses make scrubs and keep them thriving.

bubble boy
04-03-2002, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by Krimick
The guys who go door to door and offer to cut your lawn for $5 less then your currently being charged.....without even asking what your paying right now. That's a scrub.

not how i define it. the above for me is a lowballer.

A company may lowball but may still be registered, incorporated, insured, licenced, etc..

so...

LCO SCRUB: someone who runs an LCO but is not registered, insured or licenced to do the work.

LCO lowballer: someone who undercuts the price of a competitor, with no regard to market forces, company revenue streams or company costs, simply to get the job.

Lawn-Scapes
04-03-2002, 03:35 PM
Anyone from this site who responds to a post calling other people scrubs.. and pulling something about "5 months behind in payments" out of their A$$ :laugh:

LAWNS AND MOWER
04-03-2002, 04:33 PM
Originally posted by TSG
Anyone from this site who responds to a post calling other people scrubs.. and pulling something about "5 months behind in payments" out of their A$$ :laugh:

And the bell rings for Round 2!!!!! TSG throws a quick jab..........

You might be a scrub if................ your idea of a blower is mom's kitchen broom.

LAWNS AND MOWER

65hoss
04-03-2002, 05:00 PM
Originally posted by jimlewis
In one sentence or less, list a defining characteristic of a scrub.


Well after our discussions in the past I would say:

You and me when we started. :p

LAWNS AND MOWER
04-03-2002, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by 65hoss



Well after our discussions in the past I would say:

You and me when we started. :p

I must confess. I used a broom my first year in the biz. But it wasn't Mom's.

LAWNS AND MOWER

Toroguy
04-03-2002, 05:13 PM
Scrubs are the "flea market" of lawn care. Stop worrying about them and start running your businesses.

JimLewis
04-03-2002, 05:25 PM
Well after our discussions in the past I would say:

You and me when we started.
I'd have to agree with you, Hoss. I had all of the markings of a typical scrub and then some. :D But I had a dream and a goal and that's all that counts.:D

landscaper3
04-03-2002, 05:29 PM
Question? Not sure if I understood it ( The guy who will cut the lawn for $5.00 less) thats a scrub??????? I hope its wrong cause man oh man I must be the biggest scrub here! I would drop prices by as much as $10.00 to get 15 or more in a neighborhood!
My defination of a scrub is none!! 1)we all start somewhere and have to start that way in most cases.2 if they underbid you by alot there not scrubs just irrisponsable at bidding and will soon learn.3 If I underbid someone by say 10 to even 20% doesnt make me a scub for I may have lower overhead and can bid on the closest$$$
To me there isnt any.
Brian C
www.ideallandscaping.com

Twotoros
04-03-2002, 05:52 PM
A CHEATER.

TJLC
04-03-2002, 06:33 PM
I try to never look down on someone whose equipment isn't as nice or as good as mine. What I don't like, is the guy who cares NOTHING about being a LEGIT businessman. Sorry, more than one sentence.

rodfather
04-03-2002, 06:47 PM
someone who constantly lowballs, doesn't have a clue how to make a profit or run a business, doesn't report their income (so they don't pay taxes) and doesn't give a s##t what they're doing to erode this industry's image and integrity. case closed.

ProMo
04-03-2002, 07:09 PM
reading some of these posts here i guess its safe to say im a scrub well actually i just took to much pride in my work and dont know how to run a business ive been here for a couple of weeks looking for help to turn this around and all i get is nothing 1 guy sent me a copy of his contract it is still not what im looking for but it was something to look at.Bidding im looking for help in that area and have not recieved any replies ive been searching this site over 40 hrs this week alone and still have not found what i need to be sucessful so if i have to be a scrub to feed my family it will have to do.btw if you would like to help me out i need to come up with a good service agreement and some production rates/bidding formulas etc.If you think you can be of assistance please email me thanks if you care.

Twotoros
04-03-2002, 07:14 PM
If you are insured and pay all taxes you are not a scrub.

bahiya
04-03-2002, 08:38 PM
Any dumba$$ that thinks its cool to have a website and advertise cutting any lawn for $18; anyone who believes that the key to success is to maintain residential landscapes for $50 to $60 per month (should be per cut!).

garapeto
04-03-2002, 08:55 PM
Anyone who steals pics from someones website and and claims this is there work
Rest in Peace EircElm:angel:

bubble boy
04-03-2002, 08:57 PM
I assume TSG is kidding, reading jim's posts since i joined lawnsite he knows his stuff (like i had to tell the regulars here that.)

Originally posted by landscaper3
Question? Not sure if I understood it ( The guy who will cut the lawn for $5.00 less) thats a scrub??????? I hope its wrong cause man oh man I must be the biggest scrub here!.2 if they underbid you by alot there not scrubs just irrisponsable at bidding and will soon learn.3 If I underbid someone by say 10 to even 20% doesnt make me a scub for I may have lower overhead and can bid on the closest$$$


exactly, landscaper (and i like your site). to me if you lowball someone you might be new, stupid, more efficient, have lesser profit margins, aiming to get multiples, whatever. but you're playing by the rules.

if i am one of ten bidders on a prop and i am the highest, are the other 9 bidders scrubs? nope. they could very well be making more of a margin than me. maybe my company is fat, and needs to be trimmed. not to get all Darwin like, but if a company can beat your quote and make the same profit margin, too bad cause you are inefficient. in any market, price will get driven down to a competitive level. if you can't make that price work, youre not competitive.

now if you don't have the insurance and aren't legal, well as twotoros said you area cheater and thus a scrub.

you can be one without being the other. a legal guy sure can lowball, and i know lots of one man show company's here who do good work, charge $ for it, but aren't legal and don't pay all taxes.

which is worse? well, it's like being puched in the head or punched in the gut. both suck.

Scotlawncare
04-03-2002, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by bubble boy


LCO SCRUB: someone who runs an LCO but is not registered, insured or licenced to do the work.


So Bubble boy let me get this straight. In YOUR opinion, a scrub is someone who isn't insured, licensed, or registered as in BBB.

Man if this is the case then 99% of the LCO's are scrubs or have been at one time. You might want to think about that comment.

I do this part time and do admit that I do need insurance now. The past 2 years i've been in business I haven't been big enough to afford the insurance and with my primary job I couldn't afford the extra out of my budget. this year I'm going solo and will be able to aford ins. I have used comercial equipment for all but the first 3 months. My business is Debt free. I do Professional work and classify myself as a professional. I don't know everything but I have learned how to bid by the school of hard knocks. I don't think I'm a Scrub but by your Opinion I am.

Well if that's the general concenses then I guess I AM a scrub. My customers don't think so and neither do some of my friends that are in the Lawn ind around me.

My point is Just watch who you are calling a SCRUB. That person my be just starting out and in a few years could have a bigger business than you.

Scot

Fantasy Lawns
04-03-2002, 09:05 PM
it's been said .... "not legal & legit" ..... has NOTHING to do with price !

yardboyltd
04-03-2002, 09:12 PM
I really don't hold anything against scrubs because they only scratch the iceberg of the unique, diverse population we live in. :)

If I'd have to call someone a scrub, it'd be the guy who's after SOLEY cash. Cares nothing of his services, his business, and has no goals. Rather his motivation might be a six-pack that he can buy with his earnings off of customers he has to bid cheaper because that's where he falls in the market.

ANY1 who has a good work ethic, tries there hardest should deserve respect. Whether they are skilled at it, depends. As long as they strive to do better and learn from their mistakes, they should all find the road we travel.

RMDoyon
04-03-2002, 09:21 PM
It's as much about image as anything else:
Filthy (not merely dirty) clothes and equipment, t-shirts with crass messages, concert t-shirts, intentionally blowing grass into the street, public cursing, spitting tobacco juice onto the ground in public, driving recklessly, speeding, non-existent (or broken) tail lights on the trailer, unsecured loads in truck/trailer, answering the business line "hello?".

Roger

Lawn-Scapes
04-03-2002, 09:43 PM
Your assumption is correct bubble boy.. Just trying to getting a little dig in. You can take the boy out of NY.. but not the NY out of the boy. I hold no grudges towards anyone.. I could care less if someone in front of another computer screen thinks I'm a scrub! I am here to learn and share..

spitting tobacco juice onto the ground in public LOL.. Do you mean in the public eye? Unfortunately I chew and am very self conscious about it. I don't pack my bottom lip so it protrudes about an inch or two from my gum like most do.. That looks rediculous! I use a little pinch between my gum and cheek. I do spit on my lawns :eek: from time to time but try to be discrete about it. I guess that makes me a scrub ;)

bubble boy
04-03-2002, 09:44 PM
Originally posted by Scotlawncare


So Bubble boy let me get this straight. In YOUR opinion, a scrub is someone who isn't insured, licensed, or registered as in BBB.

Man if this is the case then 99% of the LCO's are scrubs or have been at one time. You might want to think about that comment.

I do this part time and do admit that I do need insurance now. The past 2 years i've been in business I haven't been big enough to afford the insurance and with my primary job I couldn't afford the extra out of my budget. this year I'm going solo and will be able to aford ins. I have used comercial equipment for all but the first 3 months. My business is Debt free. I do Professional work and classify myself as a professional. I don't know everything but I have learned how to bid by the school of hard knocks. I don't think I'm a Scrub but by your Opinion I am.

Well if that's the general concenses then I guess I AM a scrub. My customers don't think so and neither do some of my friends that are in the Lawn ind around me.

My point is Just watch who you are calling a SCRUB. That person my be just starting out and in a few years could have a bigger business than you.

Scot

not BBB registered, but a registered business. does't need to be a corporation, just registered. I know in ontario you can operate leagally with your given (birth certificate) name, but thats neither here nor there.

as for 99% of all lco's being scrubs at one point , maybe but likely not that high. but YES, no insurance etc. you ARE a scrub. like 65Hoss said, a lot of us were. deal with it. Part time full time all the time if you cut ONE yard you are big enough for insurance. you are big enough for licences. You're big enough to cash the cheque, right?

its good to be debt free, and do good work. if your customers and friends like you and your job, great. but get legitimate. if you are getting insurance and are registered and remit sales taxes and pay income taxes then Scotlawn, congrats cause you are no longer a scrub...feel free to guide those still in scrubville.

as for your last comment i will continue to call it as i see it. i started way back in the olden days of 2000, so i am not some uber lawn care companny that wants to kill the new guy. but i was legal and legit from day one.

i don't make the rules, i just play by them.

landscaper3
04-03-2002, 09:52 PM
Some states arent or dont offer licencse or other regulations. Up here we only need at least 500,000 in insurance although we carry 5million. Im not licenced but in the states that you must be I do applaude you and feel your state has a great policy. It helps keep out the lowballers or fly by night companies, we also have contacted our state to see how we could make our state a licencsed state, some type of fees or ? but at the moment anyone can start up a business here without any state regulations. I feel it helps those of you that are legit and work hard seperate yourselves from the ones that aren't.

sgtgm5
04-03-2002, 09:57 PM
Hmm, If im clasified as a scrub because I have to unercut someone 5$ and even though I have all commercial equipment and i need the account to make a living then I guess that is what I'm classified and am insured and licensed but am having some tough times. Failed the last 2 years but with failure comes a learning lession to make me better in the future. My point is just because Im undering bidding alot dosent mean I'm a scrub, It just means I need the job to live a basic life, so the point is just do what you got to do and the only reason there is a classifaction of scrubs is so that when a person gets mad they have a reason.

landscaper3
04-03-2002, 10:05 PM
Plain and simple without making a frenzy here! You have to estimate your contracts so that your company gets money BUT at the same time you have to be lower or about the same as the competion! Not saying low balling but in this day and age especially after 911 people are and will be a little tighter with the $$$$$$$ (talking new prospect customers) So with so many of us out here in the same field most of the time it comes down to the big old $$$$$$$$$. Anyone without insurance in this field- like playing Russian rulett!!!!!! As for the BBB we had them call me today but for $370.00 kinda steep! But am still considering it! While on the BBB subject. WHATS YOUR opinion???????? Like 2 here.

Twotoros
04-03-2002, 10:08 PM
If you pay state and federal taxes you are not a scrub. If you then choose to work for peanuts more power to you. Soon you will be broke and back to work at Target. See you there.

Darryl G
04-03-2002, 10:15 PM
Here in Connectiuct I don't need any special license to do lawn care, there's no requirement for insurance or any sort of registration, and there's nothing to prevent a guy from going out on his own and making a few bucks, as long as you delcare your income. You don't need to do anything other than pay all applicable taxes. If you don't like it, don't blame the "scrubs", write your legislators. BTW, have any of you tried to get insurance when doing this part time? IMPOSSIBLE. Besides, I'm worth more than most of you guys are insured for, so if I want to take the risk, that's my business.

Before you all jump down my throat, yes I have State and Federal tax ID's and a contractors license, but I really don't need them in my locale.

bubble boy
04-03-2002, 10:25 PM
sgtgm give your price if it five bucks less than someone then maybe their price is five bucks too high.

and your story, this is what i'm talking about-being a stand up businessman. you have had a tough couple years but still realize your need to be legit, and that should be commended. A scrub would have said "i had a tough time the last couple of years so screw the insurance and the licence cause they cost too much." Things will turn up, its spring you have a whole new year to grow:cool:

BBB i myself never mentioned, but it might be worth it. board of trade, industry organizations, they can never hurt

bobbygedd
04-03-2002, 10:26 PM
what is a scrub? people who continuously and constantly worry about what others are doing, and , who constantly need reassurance from their peers that being a grass boy IS
a valid, and honorable proffesion. what is a scrub? people who complain about illegitimate companys, yet they themselves accept cash as a form of payment, and do not deposit it into their business acount. what is a scrub? a guy who uses his business equipment to cut his own lawn, and uses his business truck to go fishin while burning the fuel that was purchased on his business acct credit card. what is a scrub? a guy who fertilizes his own lawn with chemicals purchased with the business money. o cry me a river for gods sake!

landscaper3
04-03-2002, 10:34 PM
We now have a flaming Thread!!!!!!!! LOL

Lawn-Scapes
04-03-2002, 10:34 PM
What is a scrub in the lawn & landscape biz? Scrub: (noun) Vegetation of inferior quality, though sometimes thick and impenetrable, growing in poor soil or in sand; also, brush. A straggly, stunted tree or shrub. :D

Darryl G
04-03-2002, 10:37 PM
Scrub - What you do after work before eating dinner.

Lawn277
04-03-2002, 11:15 PM
Gentlemen: Why is it everytime I visit this site is there always the SCRUB issue? Will this subject ever go away? This Is American, the country of free enterprise. I understand if there is hard feelings because somebody took an account away. But we are all businessmen. and cost in the eye of the customer is a big issue. They dont care how much insurance and all those state permits and fica and all the other stuff costs us. They want the best, yesterday for nothing!! Maybe the customers are scrubs.We all shave the price for the jobs we can get. If you cant compete, maybe its time to get out. Im sorry if you think that I am rude but this issue needs to go away, its old. We cant change what people will do for money or how the run their business, all we can worry about is ourselves..

nuff said
thanks
Rick

LJ lawn
04-03-2002, 11:18 PM
sounds like we're all scrubs then,boo hoo- sniff.you people need to get a life insted of beating the dead horse of this subject.because as long as there will be ANY service industry INCLUDING lawn care, there will always be people who will have their OPINIONS and will COMPLAIN about their competition and their business practices.reading this thread makes me want to go out and lowball some of my competitors lawns just to get the job .LOL--REAL LOUD!:eek:

bobbygedd
04-03-2002, 11:31 PM
yea, what he said

Twotoros
04-03-2002, 11:53 PM
Those that always say "scrubs are not a threat, just go out and do good work and mind your own biz" have not been bit hard enough yet. I have already dropped my minimum this year and every nickel comes out of my take home pay. I suggest that those that don't like the scrub threads stop reading them and defending the bas-teds!!!!!!:angry:

bobbygedd
04-03-2002, 11:58 PM
dropped your minimum??? scrub, scrub, scrub....lowballer, lowballer! what comes next? drop the insurance? hmmmm, scrub!want to know what i really think? thank god i do this part time, cus if i had to rely on the income of a lawn biz, id hang myself!

Darryl G
04-04-2002, 12:10 AM
Twotoros - I don't like the scrub threads because I do everything legal and still meet your stupid definition of a scrub. Didn't your Mamma ever tell you if isn't nice to call people names. Personally, I'm proud of the fact that I didn't pay a dime in State or Federal Income tax last year. I also don't pay unemployment tax or workmens comp because I DON'T HAVE TO due to how my business is set up. Am I a scrub or just smart?

Twotoros
04-04-2002, 12:34 AM
Whatever. Hope you don't get caught being a cheater. Seems pretty STOOPID admiting that you are a tax evader.

Fantasy Lawns
04-04-2002, 12:53 AM
lets say you are working on a customers property ... by "accident" you lose control of your mower (run over a yellow jacket nest) the mower goes crazy n knocks a hole in the home or goes into the AC unit …. Do you pay for it ….rely on insurance or bale

lets say you are working on a customers property ... you by "accident" you kick up a rock n it hit someone in the mouth ….the damage is broken jaw or front teeth …. Do you pay for it ….rely on insurance or bale

lets say you are working on a customers property ... by "accident" your worker cuts his finger off ……Do you pay for it ….rely on workman’s comp or bale

lets say NO ONE pays their Taxes ….do you drive on dirt roads ….wooden or no bridges ….carry a gun because not Police are around or put the fire on your house out with a hose ….opps sorry NO public water works

Twotoros
04-04-2002, 12:57 AM
Well put Steve. :blob3:

plow kid
04-04-2002, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by RMDoyon
It's as much about image as anything else:
>>public cursing

><> You mean like " F*wk I hit a irrigation head!" Big deal, most of my customers swear worse then I do
Originally posted by RMDoyon
>>driving recklessly

><>Sometimes you have to make it to the shop so that you can pee!
Originally posted by RMDoyon
>>answering the business line "hello?".


I usualy answer "Nate's Lawn Service" but sometimes when my mind is a little off I say "hello" ~NaTe

Darryl G
04-04-2002, 01:15 AM
Jeeeez - Now you're calling me a cheater and a tax evader! Keep it up and I'm going to report you to the moderator. The fact of the matter is that after deductions (which are high due to medical costs for my wife's chronic Lyme Disease), I DIDN'T OWE ANY STATE OR FEDERAL TAXES. The fact is that I only worked part time while taking care of my now deceased mother. Therefore I low net earnings and with a family of 4, I don't have to pay tax. You don't like it, whine to your legislators, not me.

And yes, if I am responsible for damage, I will pay for it, whatever it takes. Believe me, I'd rather have insurance, but as a part timer I couldn't get it. Most Insurance companies wouldn't even talk to me because I have less than 3 years experience in the business. I've been talking to agents this spring and have the only quote I have is over $3000 per year for the truck and 500,000 liability, 25,000 equipment (yes I have at least that in equipment).

So please, stop the name calling and labeling and stop assuming the worst of people.

Darryl G
04-04-2002, 01:29 AM
Sorry - I forgot to address the workmens comp issue. I don't have any employees, so I don't need to pay workmens comp or unemployment. I have full medical, accident, dismenberment, and life insurance on myself, and the wife stays at home (the office). We're not even employees of the business, we're partners. In fact I can tell an OSHA inspector to stick it, because he has no jurisdiction over my activities. All I have to pay is the employee and employer shares (I believe it's 15.1 %) of SS and Medicare and state sales/use tax and the government is happy.

Sounds like a smart, efficient operation to me.

Twotoros
04-04-2002, 02:00 AM
Report away pal . Report away. Wait let me do it for you.

Moderator- maybe it's time to close this thread.

Darryl G
04-04-2002, 02:05 AM
I don't too many potential lawn care customers who like slanderous and obnoxious landscaping contractions. Maybe it's you're attitude that needs a change, not your pricing.

toby
04-04-2002, 02:27 AM
Originally posted by bobbygedd
what is a scrub? people who continuously and constantly worry about what others are doing, and , who constantly need reassurance from their peers that being a grass boy IS
a valid, and honorable proffesion. what is a scrub? people who complain about illegitimate companys, yet they themselves accept cash as a form of payment, and do not deposit it into their business acount. what is a scrub? a guy who uses his business equipment to cut his own lawn, and uses his business truck to go fishin while burning the fuel that was purchased on his business acct credit card. what is a scrub? a guy who fertilizes his own lawn with chemicals purchased with the business money. o cry me a river for gods sake!

I think that about sums it up.
Alot of self-righteous lawn-boys with delusions of grandeur because they pay some pocket-change to the insurance co. & the government for some scraps of paper.
While I wouldn't be without those scraps of paper, if you want to live on the edge more power to you.
I can play with the scrubs & win.

Twotoros
04-04-2002, 02:29 AM
So does anybody here think I have slandered Darryl? If so let me know. I personally think I have not.

Soupy
04-04-2002, 04:29 AM
I don't want to get into name calling. But I do agree that it is bad business to just walk up and say I'll do it $5 cheaper then the last guy. on the other hand if you Bid on it and happend to be cheaper then the last guy, then so be it.

I don't care how someone runs thier business or what equipment they use. What bothers me is that the guy that doesn't pay the insurance and such has no real overhead so when he cuts a lawn that takes an hour for $20 he thinks he is makeing great money becasue most people he knows makes less then that working for someone else. Not only is he undercutting our industry, he is undercutting himself. I would say to these people, hey if you don't want to be insured and what not, then that's your business. But don't undercut yourself when you could have easily got that same job for $40

Well I hope you can see my point on this.

Soupy

gogetter
04-04-2002, 04:45 AM
Originally posted by bobbygedd
thank god i do this part time, cus if i had to rely on the income of a lawn biz, id hang myself!


So if the income from it is so bad (for you), why in the world would you even be doing it on a part time basis? Doesn't sound very smart to me.:confused:

1MajorTom
04-04-2002, 07:41 AM
I feel this thread has run it's course.
It's time to end it.