Customer can't read the contract?

[hubb]

I was cutting a large multi-unit housing complex today for the first time. I no sooner got the mower off of my trailer when the manager came out of her office and yelled over the mower engine that she needs some dandelion treatment on the grounds. I turned the throttle down and told her that this wasn't in my contract and that I don't put down herbicides. She acted super P/O'ed. I started to explain that I don't have an applicators liscense and she threw her hands in the air and started to walk away. I told her that I could have someone do it from a different company. She said never mind. As she walked away shaking her head, I said I could at least tell her what to use for the dandelions. She turned and yelled that she know what to use.
You have to have some background here. I had this contract awarded and signed last fall. She then asked me if I could do the snow removal too. After I did the first snow, she called all upset with the prices. She said it didn't even snow enough to have any removal. I explained to her that the prices were on the contract and that it was understood that these prices were acceptable. She griped enough that I cut her some slack on the snow prices on her 2 complexes. I knew she was going to difficult, but this is ridiculous. I don't want to lose this account because although she only has 2 complexes, I cut 5 others for the property management company that she works for, but for another manager.
I really dont what to do.

[Soupy]

Call her back because she will have calm down by now. Explain to her that you are very sorry for the inconvenience and that you can sub it out at an additional cost. Explain to her that you value her as a customer, and then do a little more a$$ kissing. Actually what I would do, which I'm still not sure if it's legal. Is tell her if she buys the materials that you need that you will spread it at no charge. I don't see what's wrong with helping a friend spread some store bought weed and feed on their lawn. Explain to her that this is the only legal way you can do it, and that it will save her money anyway by not paying labor. After this she should be a happy customer. If she's still not happy then get rid of her, It's not worth the headache.

Just my $.02
Soupy

[Soupy]

By the way, I just noticed that we are close to each other. I'm across the river in Belleville.

Soupy

[Randy Scott]

Originally posted by Soupy
Actually what I would do, which I'm still not sure if it's legal. Is tell her if she buys the materials that you need that you will spread it at no charge. I don't see what's wrong with helping a friend spread some store bought weed and feed on their lawn. Explain to her that this is the only legal way you can do it, and that it will save her money anyway by not paying labor.

Just my $.02
Soupy

Uhh Soupy, the state applies laws for the safety and well being of people. The fact that someone doesn't have an applicators license shows they don't have the knowledge or desire to go learn the rules and regulations of applying products that can make someone sick or even kill them. Trying to get around that with a technicality is quite irresponsible and information I wouldn't be too proud to announce on a forum like this. If he can't provide a service because he isn't capable for whatever reasons, that's his loss. That's why I and many others get their pesticide license. It is another avenue of revenue and shows you put a little effort in schooling yourself for your business. I have had personal experience dealing with people that make excuses for why they don't go get their license. Too much money for the license, not a money making business, customers complain too much, those are all excuses because they're lazy. Everyone on here knows that fertilizing is a money maker that exceeds mowing profits. Of course it takes a little practice and a fair amount of knowledge, not quite as easy as mowing but more rewarding. Whether one chooses to obtain licensing is completely their decision. But trying to beat the system is ignorant. Your quote couldn't appear to paint a more unprofessional image to the customer that this industry really doesn't need. Regardless of the lady being a jacka$$ or not, two unprofessionals don't make a good one.
No offense to you hubb, you appeared to handle it the best you could. The lady just seems unreasonable. Maybe you could go over her head to the management company.

[bubble boy]

i would like to say even IF it wasn't illegal, why do this for free?

whatever you're doing, charge for it. labor is NOT free. and she is a customer, NOT your friend.

[parkwest]

hubb, I think it would help in answering your question if we knew if the lady was pre-menapausal, menapausal or post menapausal. The problem may be solved by her simply taking her medicine. You're in the business of helping others, maybe suggest to her to try some estroven. You can get some for about $10.00.

Try it and let us know how it turns out.

[Russo]

Hubb,

If you do a lot of multy-family ( apartments ), you probably already know that these managers come and go all the time; especially people like this. Imagine how she acts toward her staff and boss! Betcha she acts the exact same way.

The relationship you have with the management company seems to be the important factor. It may be best to kiss a little of crazy lady's behind to save that relationship. She'll be gone soon, anyway. I'd bet some cash on it!

[proline32]

This is a good reason to diversify, so you don't have a lot tied up in places like these...

[bobbygedd]

no, it is not legal to let the customer buy the herb then apply it "as a favor". i am the king of loopholes, been there done it, it wont fly!but, i will tell u this, the chances of getting caught, so ive been told, are very slim

[Soupy]

Mr Randy Scott,

You read to much into what I said. I don't do fert. apps because I can't compete with Chemlawn. They own my area. None of the LCO in this area say it is worth it. Chemlawn is just to cheap. I even have family that work for them and they complain how cheap they have gotton, they aren't makeing any commision. Anyway, I just suggested it to him to save a good customer. If it's illegal then he shouldn't do it. I just don't see why it is legal for the home owner to buy it and do it. If I'm not supplying it to her and I'm not chargeing her to do it, Then What's the difference If she asked me to help her with it. She told him she knows what to use. As long as she knows your not qualified to answer any technical question about it.

I could be wrong. If I knew it was illegal I would have never suggested it. I have my family members that work for Chemlawn take care of my customers when needed. i don't even do my own Lawn.

My father-n-lawn asked me during Eastre dinner If I could spread the fertilizer he bought for him the next time I come by to cut his Lawn. Should I have told him no? Even though I don't charge him to cut his grass.

By the way I am studying for the test, But am in no hurry, because Chemlawn does it for what it would cost me just to buy the supplys to do the apps. I'm just glad they don't Cut or do Landscapeing in my Area.

Now I see why over at the **** ***** they talk about the Flameing that goes on here.

Soupy

[Soupy]

Ok I do need to retract my suggestion to Hubb. I just called and found out it is Illegal. I would still call her and tell her that you will Sub it out. Even if it's just to make the call to a qualified Company and your not makeing any extra money for it. You have to remember that you are makeing money from that Customer and doing something extra isn't a total lost call.

I got the stupid Idea to do it for free while I was typing my first reply to this Thread. I didn't put much thought into it because I really didn't think it would be a problem. I am glad I have family that can go to my customer and give them a good deal and still make there hourly pay plus they do get extra commision for signing a new customer.

By the way the lady on the phone told me that it is Illegal because they are a customer and you are chargeing them to do a service even though it's not to apply fertilizer.

Mr. Scott was right by saying it is unproffesional to call her and say it the way I had it worded. Like I said I was brain storming when typing the reply. But it is not unproffesional to do favors for your customers as long as it is legal.

I still don't think Mr. Scott needed to offend me for trying to help someone out. I still think I gave him good advice on the other things I mentioned in my Reply. I would have rather just been informed by Mr. Scott that he didn't think it was a good Idea. and I would have been greatful instead of offended.

Soupy

[Randy Scott]

Soupy, then maybe you should think before you speak. Do you go off half-cocked when talking to your customers and then try to retract what you said.
If the other forum is so good, then go there. I'm sick of people talking about "getting flamed" as you call it over here. I'd rather get flamed about something I may have said that is ignorant, than to have a bunch of feel good buddies blowing smoke up my a$$.

I mean nothing personal to you, but you said it yourself, you could have worded it better. How should I have reacted to your comment? Should I have known what you meant to say? You speak openly like we all do on here and what you say gets critiqued, just like me and everyone else. If you are afraid of negativity, stay away. People receive good as well as bad praise.

Also, majority of the time Chem-lawn does poor work, if you provide quality service at a fair price, you will make money.

My father-in-law pays me just like any other customer. He wouldn't have it any other way, and I wouldn't allow it any other way. I do business, not charity.

[Runner]

O.k., now with all that aside, let's get to the solution. Don't tell the prop. manager what you CAN'T do, tell her what it takes for what you CAN do. Although she sort of caught you by surprise, and you didn't have a plan then, you have one now. (!) Here's what we do. Call Scumlawn, or whatever your local fert. co. os, (you may even want to call a few different ones if you like - comparison shop) and get prices. Get the whole season, and get just the two herbicide apps. Then call the prop. manager, and tell her that you are able to take care of it. It'll cost X amount, but here is what you'll be getting. (upsell it) Now, what I mean by this, is not telling what a great product tru-brown is, but let her know that we won't have weeds. Also, incidentally, if you are to sub it out, definitely do NOT use the term "additional cost". This is a bad word in sales. That's kind of like saying. "Yeah, I can do it, - but it's gonna cost ya." See what I mean? Anyway, just try to accentuate the positive. Good luck with it, and I hope it works out for you.

[Soupy]

Point taken, No hard feelings here.

Soupy

[hubb]

(Mr. Scott):angry: :angry: :angry: those are all excuses because they're lazy.

Mr. Scott
I think you should practice what you preach. You should think before you speak. You don't know anything about me, and your calling me lazy! My reasons for not having my applicators liscense YET is that I just ordered the books for it last week. I am getting my liscense soon. The fact of the matter is that herbicide application was never mentioned by her before the contract or during the signing of it either. Thats the problem! She wants something for nothing. And she knows it. I sub out my applications to a friend of mine that does have his liscense. You have no right to call anyone lazy on here. I work third shift all night every night and work at least 8 hours a day on my lawn care business. I guess you might have some smart azz comment about that too ah? Keep it to yourself. I don't need your advice on what services I offer or dont offer. And I definitely dont need you calling me or any one else in this business lazy! This is some of the hardest work for any one to do. I think there are few that make it very far in this business by being lazy.

Now with that said, I know what is legal and not legal. I do everything legit. The only reason I started this thread is because I know there are others out there that dont have an apps liscense and wanted some advice on how they smooth it over when asked for an herb app.

By the way Thanks to those that answered constructively. And fertilizer apps in MO doesn't require an applicators license (Mr. Scott)

[gogetter]

Geez Randy, I can see ya being a bit upset about the bad advice given, but why jump all over the orignal poster?

Anyway, great advice from Runner as usual. Good to see you posting again (you seemed to disappear over the winter).

The lady does sound a bit wacky though! LOL!

Good luck.

P.S. Randy, you charge you own father in law? Nice.

[P&J Lawncare]

Randy now it is your turn to be flamed. I don't have a license and probably never will but I can gurantee you that I am not lazy. I must of been absent when you polled EVERYBODY on this site about fertilizing being more profitable than mowing, as you stated. I wonder why so many of us just mow lawns, maybe it is because we are happy just concentrating on the mowing part of this buisiness and we don't see the benefit of competing with the major fertilizing companies. Maybe one day I will be as smart as you and come to the conclussion that my $200,000 per year (gross) lawn mowing buisiness is a waste of time and sell it so that I can find the time to get off my lazy a** and get my license. Randy any time you want to compare my lazy, non licensed buisiness to yours feel free to. If you want to learn something than maybe you should read how RUNNER approached this same question to see how a real pro answers a question.

[Soupy]

I was kinda hopeing my last post would have ended the flameing :)

Around here Landscapeing is the money maker, but that's not to say that there isn't some Quality LCO's that just cut grass. Some even choose to do Tree removal. My point is to add to the debate that you don't have to do Fertilizer to make money. And Landscapeing and Tree removal isn't exactly a lazy mans job.

Soupy,

[toby]

Originally posted by Randy Scott

If the other forum is so good, then go there. I'm sick of people talking about "getting flamed" as you call it over here. I'd rather get flamed about something I may have said that is ignorant, than to have a bunch of feel good buddies blowing smoke up my a$$.


Well said! Perceptive, insightful yet tactful.
However, re: the rest of your post - another case of a self-important lawn monkey clasping a scrap of paper as his bible. Remove that pickle Randy & everything will be ok.

[Soupy]

I'm not saying that one forum is better then the other. I actually have been spending more time here. I just didn't know about this forum before. I did hear a few guys talking about getting flamed at the other forum. Then when I come over hear and post a couple of times and get hit right away with a flame. It just didn't feel good. I'm not whining, I'm over it.

I was just brought up that it is better to be polite and treat others as you would want to be treated. I didn't mind being corrected (I'm grateful) But I do mind when it is done rudely.

That said. I like the forum. seems like alot of good people are here to help. It's just normal that when you have a room full of people your going to have some unpleasent ones.

Soupy