Uncontrolable ZTR

[Andy Miller]

I was cutting a yard today with my ZTR. The yard was on a slope with a off angle. My ZTR went out of control. NO STEERING or BRAKING. The angle of slope dragged the mower in the direction which I was trying to steer away from. I picked up speed and crashed thru a chain link fence. I am reconsidering this equipment. All my work is on some kind of slope. This thing works great on level but is not safe on hills. It is a 48" Yazoo/Kees. Is there any suggestions.

[edward hedrick]

Andy, I use a Scag Sthm or 3 wheeler. Might want to check out

Gravely 310. Will do 9 mph. I lost control of a Exmark LC

last year on a demo. I'll stay with the Scag. I can raise the deck

to change weight distribution.

[Runner]

That's one thing about ztr's. You get them going forward down a hill, and you are just along for the ride! There have been a few threads on here regarding this and the safety and danders of these. It's sort of ironic, because they'll climb hills unbelievably. and back down them as well, but you get them going forward and down, and forget about it. wb's are one of the first choices for many on hillsides, and like Edward said, 3 wheelers work rather well too. With a 3 wheeler, I don't know about the new ones that only lift the deck while leaving the casters down, but on mine, it lifts the whole deck and front end up. This thing will stop dead while going down a hill, and back right up it if you want it to. Be careful!

[eslawns]

My dealer told me not to mow slopes with the thing. I didn't listen, and found out the hard way that he was right!

[LJ lawn]

you have to either mow straight up and straight down or really learn how to control the wheelspin going straight across the face at speed.takes lots of practice.if thats all the type of stuff you mow i'd look into other equipment.

[Guardian]

I agree with those saying they don't do well going downhill. With practice, you can get better. I found that the wider wheelbase of a 60" ztr does alot better on slopes.

My 44 Exmark requires skill and the hand of GOD to stay up on hills.

[johnhenry]

each brand has there own tolerance because of the hydro set up. Some brands are great on hills and some brands are better off to stay on the trailer. Here in the ozarks where we have some hills I can mow most hills with my ferris or derby. one thing about mowing hills is speed and direction and traction of grass. Thats the one beauty of a dixie with those rear tires great traction.

[TJLC]

Any slope that I'm not sure of I just use my w/b. As far as flat and open, no doubt I use my z. I have tried a few small slopes and that was enough for me. It's not worth getting hurt over. I've seen guys use z's on slopes I would NEVER think of doing with a ztr. That's the nice thing about having both a w/b and a ztr, you can handle just about any situation.

[GarPA]

oh wonderful...most properties have some degree of slope ...what degree are we talking about here 10 degrees, 15, less?? Maybe I should send my shiny new hp52 back to Mr Dealer...haven't run it on much of a slope yet...would appreciate you Emark addicts putting your 2 cents in here please...

[Andy Miller]

These machines are not SAFE for hilly terrain. A safety warning should be given to potential users. I am serious, these machines are dangerious

[TLS]

.

[Evan528]

I couldnt agree more with Tommy. I know my limitations with my z and dont take it on extreme hills or even attemp to turn with the mower facing down hill. Once you get experience with them they are very safe..... It will take a couple close calls though to break you in though;)

[Premo Services]

[i]Originally posted by TLS [/B]They are only as "Dangerous" as the operator allows them to be!

TLS!!! That really sums it up. Well said, don`t think I could have said it better myself.:D



[kitzy] oh wonderful...most properties have some degree of slope ...what degree are we talking about here 10 degrees, 15, less?? Maybe I should send my shiny new hp52 back to Mr Dealer...haven't run it on much of a slope yet...would appreciate you Emark addicts putting your 2 cents in here please...

kitzy, I wouldn`t go and take the new machine back too quick. You will get used to the machine, the more you run it, Be careful on hills though, they can be a pita!! I have found that you can take a hill and cut it on side to side angles and not do too bad, also on some hills, I start at bottom and work my way up turning up the hill.. For the steeper hills, I prefer the walkbehind. I know you will see the benifits of using a ztr, just remember saftey, don`t get into a hurry. and most important, if its wet, don`t make the mistake of turning down the hill, you will get the white knuckle ride to the bottom or wherever it decides to stop.:eek:

[Andy Miller]

It is FINE to blame the operator, but NO ONE told THIS operator that this machine can not cut down hill which can be performed on all other tractors. I was raised using farm equipment. I read NOTHING in the operating manual saying this machine can not go down hill! I see that some in this forum are not the least bit helpful and would prefer to blame everything on operator error. Get with it, this forum is to warn and help others. This machine is useless on hills!

[MuskTurfKing]

I don't even like taking my tractor on small hills, makes me too nervous, sure would hate to have that thing tip, I just use my 21".

Better safe than sorry. Keep the hills for the w/b's.

Hank

[TLS]

You CAN go down hills with a ZTR just fine. Just not REAL steep ones, thats all! Maybe the Kee's isn't as stable as most? The more weight on the rear the better they will be on a downhill. If they are front heavy, watch out. Mostly you just have to be carefull when its wet or dewey, or when the grass is "juicey" and slippery. Other than that, I'll go DOWN a steeper hill than I feel comfortable going across.

You want fun? Try sliding sideways down a hill, and then catching! You'll need to change your shorts! This is where a wider 60-72" ZTR is better!

Good Luck,

P.S. I'll pretend that I didn't hear the "I see that some in this forum are not the least bit helpful and would prefer to blame everything on operator error." part.... :rolleyes:

[Alan]

Sorry Andy, but no sympathy from me either. I run a Lazer Z and it will go where I get very nervous. But I learned that by working up to bad conditions. The hill limits posted on the machine are ridiculous, geared towards limiting manufacturer liability, not maximum use of the unit. Along the way I learned (by using my head, not whining about the machine) that you really need to have an escape plan if things go bad. Back down bad hills, plan your turns so you are swinging the front downhill, you can't pull it uphill if the grade is very steep. If/when you lose it heading down, horse it around sideways and you will stop. At least with the wide stance of the 60" Lazer that works,, may not on a narrower machine. Other than that, you messed up, don't blame the maker for not covering every possible way an operator can hurt himself. In the end we are all responsible for learning our equipment and operating it safely.

[Shawn Burns]

I cut hills with my 60" Hustler Z that i would not think about taking my w/b on. Steep enough that the uphill front caster is off the ground . You just have to learn to "feel" the machine. You will know when enough is enough.

[ChadsLawn]

Hey Andi I have a Kees 52" ZTR and have takin it on some pretty steep slopes, but it never got out of control...Or when you said "out of control" meaning whatever you did it still slide down the hill?? If so may want to try a diff rear tire...I cant remember the name of mine but mine look like these
http://www.golfcarttrader.com/Tire_Pics/tires/hf255.jpg
You just have to be careful with them as you can see they can do some serious damage to a lawn..

Maybe the Kee's isn't as stable as most?
The Yazoo/Kees is almost identical to the Exmark..Id give the weight ratio 80/20 80 being in the rear.. Try a diff set of tires and learn the machine inside and out and you'll be hittin slopes you never dreamed of..:)

Chad

[65hoss]

Hahahaha. Problem is to many people just jump on without taking the time to learn the Z. With experience you learn where and how to take the z. I agree, they are only as dangerous as you let them. You learn the feel of the z and your limits. Kinda like learning to turn without tearing up the turf. You can't just jump on and expect it to work correctly.

Take you time to get the experience. After you learn the Z you will love it.

[summitgroundskeeping]

Almost any heavy commercial piece of lawn equ. will loose contol if a hill starts to take control of it. Gravity will dominate over hydros and turf tires.

Just be careful. If your on a hill use a w/b or a 21"w/b.

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Originally posted by Andy Miller
These machines are not SAFE for hilly terrain. A safety warning should be given to potential users. I am serious, these machines are dangerious

Operator is 99% of machine errors.

You must not have read the owners manual, so you speak WAY to soon.

I am sure Kees put a safety warning in theirs.

Once you learn the limitations of that mower you will be praising it and not complaining.

First thing you should have done, was let go of the levers so the machine will balance out.

[1stclasslawns]

Here we go again ANOTHER WARNING!

I for one am tired of having to have the government, government agencies, and manifactures, as baby sitters!

The first thing a person MUST do is learn their equipment.If you don't know your equipment, ASK.

Common sense MUST come into play somewhere, I have operated machenry of all shapes and sizes, from old fashion stick edgers to 14' bush hogs. I will admit I have come close to having accidents a couple of times, but you know what? Every one of them could have been avoided if I hadn't had my head in a dark place.

jim

[GarPA]

well for what its worth I just took delivery of an Exmark Z. Did not even turn the key until I read the operators manual (3 times)..then made a few notes that I taped on the deck...sounds goofy probably but with a new machine, its ez to forget something...and guess what, the last page of the manual shows inclines up to 15 degrees and cautions that you must be VERY CAREFUL...ok I have been warned by Exmark, not the govt...anybody who can't see there is alot of weight in those mowers in a relatively small footprint should not get on one...period...just a humble opinion from a rookie Z owner...and by the way 65Hoss provided some great break in info...stuff thats not in the manual