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WETSCAPE
06-02-2009, 08:43 PM
Hi guys have a question. Everyone I ask has a different approach! I recently seeded and hayed a lawn. The customer had a sprinkler system and the guy set it up to run twice a day for once in the early am around 4:00am and then to go back on about 12:30 in the afternoon. I noticed he has it for set for 20mins each run time. It is in full sun. I realize you want to keep the seed moist NOT soaked. Is this set up correct or should it be only once at 4:00 am?
Curious to get others takes.
Thanks.....

cgaengineer
06-02-2009, 09:31 PM
It would be best to monitor the moisture...without seeing the site it would be difficult to make a recommendation.

Kingram52
06-02-2009, 09:49 PM
It has a better chance of germinating if you water it 4 times a day at 5min each time.

WETSCAPE
06-02-2009, 10:00 PM
This is how the sprinkler co set up the guys system to run. What I worry about the most is short frequent watering could lead to fungus/blight. A problem I dealt with at the same property last year. I suggested one 15min run time early around 7:00am or so and a 10min run at 5:00pm.

Smallaxe
06-03-2009, 06:27 AM
For grass 4 AM is good. For seed - you want to moisten it when the sun is drying it. I like 10 AM, 2:30 PM, and 5:30 PM in full sun.
But we have grown good grass, in shade, on good soil - with just soaking it in the morning.

AI Inc
06-03-2009, 06:33 AM
This is how the sprinkler co set up the guys system to run. What I worry about the most is short frequent watering could lead to fungus/blight. A problem I dealt with at the same property last year. I suggested one 15min run time early around 7:00am or so and a 10min run at 5:00pm.

What you suggested is the correct way.

ron mexico75
06-03-2009, 07:55 AM
It has a better chance of germinating if you water it 4 times a day at 5min each time.


I concur with this statement. The short frequent waterings are fine until the seed gets established. That's exactly what you want to do. Keep the seed and new seedlings damp not drown them. My guess would be maybe 2 to 3 weeks.

You are right in saying you should be worried about fungus with frequent waterings. However, that is once the turf is established and not when it's germinating. Once established then you want to switch over to long deep infrequent watering. That helps the grass grow a deep root system. Short everyday watering makes turf have a shallow root system near the top because the grass "expects" water everyday and has no reason for the roots to go down deep to get the water. Does that make sense?

Mikey Palmice
06-08-2009, 10:20 PM
I concur with this statement. The short frequent waterings are fine until the seed gets established. That's exactly what you want to do. Keep the seed and new seedlings damp not drown them. My guess would be maybe 2 to 3 weeks.

You are right in saying you should be worried about fungus with frequent waterings. However, that is once the turf is established and not when it's germinating. Once established then you want to switch over to long deep infrequent watering. That helps the grass grow a deep root system. Short everyday watering makes turf have a shallow root system near the top because the grass "expects" water everyday and has no reason for the roots to go down deep to get the water. Does that make sense?

that makes a lot of sense actually. great info.

I was wondering, I rolled my soil after the seed and fertilizer were put down. I worked em into the top soil with a rake, wet it and rolled it. Should I water longer since the soil is tighter now?

my area might get thunderstorms tonight or tomorrow. Am I screwed now?

I also put a thin layer of straw over the entire area. I put enough for a good covering, you can see some soil in spots, but very small areas.

I was going to water around 8am, noon, and I guess around 6pm for short amounts of time.

thanks for the help

thanks for the help.

ron mexico75
06-08-2009, 10:30 PM
I think you're fine. As long as you are not creating a mud pit that you sink into when you walk on it then you're fine. Just make sure more then the surface of the dirt is wet and some of it is going beneath the top visible layer.

Mikey Palmice
06-08-2009, 11:11 PM
I have a really dumb question. When you put down seed, and say you get a 75 percent germination rate. At what points do you get new grass other than from the original seeds. I guess this is called spread? Does that only happen after you mulch your clippings in the lawn mower?

thanks

Smallaxe
06-09-2009, 09:49 AM
Spread comes from the roots (rhizomes). Which is one reason I do not agree with fresh N applied to seed and young plants. When the seed is first germinated it will focus on as much root depth and width a possible.
N, forces green growth - at the expense of the root IMO.

Mikey Palmice
06-09-2009, 02:55 PM
that makes a lot of sense actually. great info.

I was wondering, I rolled my soil after the seed and fertilizer were put down. I worked em into the top soil with a rake, wet it and rolled it. Should I water longer since the soil is tighter now?

my area might get thunderstorms tonight or tomorrow. Am I screwed now?

I also put a thin layer of straw over the entire area. I put enough for a good covering, you can see some soil in spots, but very small areas.

I was going to water around 8am, noon, and I guess around 6pm for short amounts of time.

thanks for the help

thanks for the help.

What a day today. I woke up this morning to insanely heavy rain. I look out my window and there is a ton of straw in my driveway, downhill from where seeds were placed. there was a ton of water in my mulch all the way down the driveway, and i'm sure seed and fertilizer now too.

I am worried that all my seed is now gone, but I wanted to see if it's possible it survived. I did scatter it into the soil and I did roll. do you think I might be ok. there was some puddling in the soil too.

This was the heaviest rain I have seen since I am up in the area, years.

bad timing

fl-landscapes
06-09-2009, 03:34 PM
Spread comes from the roots (rhizomes). Which is one reason I do not agree with fresh N applied to seed and young plants. When the seed is first germinated it will focus on as much root depth and width a possible.
N, forces green growth - at the expense of the root IMO.

And sometimes stolons

bigslick7878
06-09-2009, 04:53 PM
What a day today. I woke up this morning to insanely heavy rain. I look out my window and there is a ton of straw in my driveway, downhill from where seeds were placed. there was a ton of water in my mulch all the way down the driveway, and i'm sure seed and fertilizer now too.

I am worried that all my seed is now gone, but I wanted to see if it's possible it survived. I did scatter it into the soil and I did roll. do you think I might be ok. there was some puddling in the soil too.

This was the heaviest rain I have seen since I am up in the area, years.

bad timing

Terrible timing.If you want to seed it has to be done 2 months ago for many reasons.

This is why from June to the end of August sod is a better option.

You get a hard thunderstorm and all that seed can be washed away especially if you try to plant on any type of slope.

cgaengineer
06-09-2009, 04:56 PM
Heavy rain always happens when you don't want or need it...take for instance my topdressing job on my own lawn...I lost some sand and also had some rutting...I will deal with it next year.
Posted via Mobile Device

Mikey Palmice
06-09-2009, 05:06 PM
Terrible timing.If you want to seed it has to be done 2 months ago for many reasons.

This is why from June to the end of August sod is a better option.

You get a hard thunderstorm and all that seed can be washed away especially if you try to plant on any type of slope.


Ok, I just got home from work. Rain stopped so I can assess the damage.

The part on the hill was the worst hit for sure. In most places the topsoil remained in tact, but in some spots, I assume this is what you mean by ruts, there is basically a canal cut out where the water headed down the hill. Basically, where I added the new topsoil is where it eroded to.

A lot of the straw is still in tact especially on the flat parts. Is it safe to assume that the seeds and fertilizer in these spots is still in tact? I think rolling it down helped a lot.

I was thinking of taking my remaining topsoil and filling in the canals and resseeding and overseed the good areas just to be safe.

Should I roll it again too?

I want to give it one more shot, and if nothing grows, I will hit it hard in the fall.

The other problem was a bunch of this stuff got in my mulch beds, but I mixed em up again and they look good as new. I guess I will apply a weed killer to it to prevent those seeds from growing and ruining my mulch bed.

any suggestions?

bigslick7878
06-09-2009, 05:15 PM
Ok, I just got home from work. Rain stopped so I can assess the damage.

The part on the hill was the worst hit for sure. In most places the topsoil remained in tact, but in some spots, I assume this is what you mean by ruts, there is basically a canal cut out where the water headed down the hill. Basically, where I added the new topsoil is where it eroded to.

A lot of the straw is still in tact especially on the flat parts. Is it safe to assume that the seeds and fertilizer in these spots is still in tact? I think rolling it down helped a lot.

I was thinking of taking my remaining topsoil and filling in the canals and resseeding and overseed the good areas just to be safe.

Should I roll it again too?

I want to give it one more shot, and if nothing grows, I will hit it hard in the fall.

The other problem was a bunch of this stuff got in my mulch beds, but I mixed em up again and they look good as new. I guess I will apply a weed killer to it to prevent those seeds from growing and ruining my mulch bed.

any suggestions?

The flat parts should be fine,especially if you rolled the seed (very good most dont) and the straw is still in place.

As far as the slopes,just going to have to move the soil around and back in place and seed again.

Probably will have to do it again...and again if a new storm comes through but not much you can do about it.You could use a germination mat on the slopes but Im not sure of how big an area we are talking about here.

ron mexico75
06-09-2009, 05:18 PM
yup, the germination mat does help on slopes. I mean if it keeps washing away then just deal with the ugliness and wait until September.

You could always landscape part of the site with shrubs and a ground cover of some type to help hold the bank together. Hard to say exactly without pics. Maybe you should post some so we can see what you're dealing with.

Mikey Palmice
06-09-2009, 09:14 PM
Thanks for the tips. Here is what I did so far. The flat parts are intact for the most part. Along the hill I filled in with new top soil, mixed it all up and re-seeded the area. I wasn't able to roll it again yet because the soil was very wet and mushy in parts. If it doesn't rain tomorrow I will attempt to roll it again.

I looked at those blankets, but they were like 18 bucks for a 4x20 roll. If I just used em on the hill section I might need like 5 or 6 of em. I spent so much money this year, so I would like to avoid that if possible.

This rain was extremely heavy and none of the previous rains messed with the topsoil. I hope this is the last heavy rain for awhile.

How much water should be put into a roller to push down seed and soil?

Is it better to use the shredded straw or full longer pieces?

Mikey Palmice
06-09-2009, 09:15 PM
I will take some pictures tomorrow and post em here. thanks

bigslick7878
06-09-2009, 09:20 PM
Thanks for the tips. Here is what I did so far. The flat parts are intact for the most part. Along the hill I filled in with new top soil, mixed it all up and re-seeded the area. I wasn't able to roll it again yet because the soil was very wet and mushy in parts. If it doesn't rain tomorrow I will attempt to roll it again.

I looked at those blankets, but they were like 18 bucks for a 4x20 roll. If I just used em on the hill section I might need like 5 or 6 of em. I spent so much money this year, so I would like to avoid that if possible.

This rain was extremely heavy and none of the previous rains messed with the topsoil. I hope this is the last heavy rain for awhile.

How much water should be put into a roller to push down seed and soil?

Is it better to use the shredded straw or full longer pieces?

If you cant spend 90 bucks for the lawn I don't know what to tell you,you get out of something what you put in.I'm guessing you spend more than that in a night out but for the place that costs hundreds of thousands of your hard earned dollars its just too much.

Depends on how big the roller is,but you should fill it up almost all the way.

Never use straw,cant help you there.

Pics will help.

Mikey Palmice
06-09-2009, 09:27 PM
thanks for counting my money for me. :rolleyes:

It's just that I have spent like 15K on my house this year, which is a LOT of money for me. New driveway, new stoop, new walkway, new hot water heater, topsoil, mulch, seed, fertilizer, etc. This **** is adding up fast.

But yeah, I will measure the hilly area and see how many of those blankets I need. Any particular blankets to get or are they all the same. The ones I saw were from home depot, so I'm sure there are better options.

Mikey Palmice
06-09-2009, 11:39 PM
This one is available close to where I live and it's 4x50. I went this far, might as well get em.



http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=213426-23132-10032&detail=cr&lpage=none

Man, if I only waiting till today to seed. It's a nice light drizzle now.

bigslick7878
06-09-2009, 11:46 PM
This one is available close to where I live and it's 4x50. I went this far, might as well get em.



http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=213426-23132-10032&detail=cr&lpage=none

Man, if I only waiting till today to seed. It's a nice light drizzle now.

Thats more like it!

Its June,your pretty much going into thunderstorm season its worth it if you want grass now.

No chance of it holding up this time of year with the typical weather patterns.

Mikey Palmice
06-09-2009, 11:52 PM
how much anchoring does this thing need? Is it supposed to hug the soil tight? Should I just tack the corners and keep it loose in the middle?

Smallaxe
06-10-2009, 12:02 AM
Ok, I just got home from work. Rain stopped so I can assess the damage.

The part on the hill was the worst hit for sure. In most places the topsoil remained in tact, but in some spots, I assume this is what you mean by ruts, there is basically a canal cut out where the water headed down the hill. Basically, where I added the new topsoil is where it eroded to.

A lot of the straw is still in tact especially on the flat parts. Is it safe to assume that the seeds and fertilizer in these spots is still in tact? I think rolling it down helped a lot.

I was thinking of taking my remaining topsoil and filling in the canals and resseeding and overseed the good areas just to be safe.

Should I roll it again too?

I want to give it one more shot, and if nothing grows, I will hit it hard in the fall.

The other problem was a bunch of this stuff got in my mulch beds, but I mixed em up again and they look good as new. I guess I will apply a weed killer to it to prevent those seeds from growing and ruining my mulch bed.

any suggestions?

The water washed it down... rake it back up... reseed - as - you terraform your lawn.

Just don't put any weed killer or 'Crabgrass Preventer' in the area that you want grass to grow... Not a lot of people know that... :)

Mikey Palmice
06-10-2009, 12:44 AM
Yeah, I am going to throw more seed down, top dress it with what topsoil I have left and put some germination blankets on the sloped part of the yard, maybe the whole front yard. I will even overseed where I think the seeds weren't disturbed just to make sure I get the most coverage.

Mikey Palmice
06-11-2009, 05:59 PM
Testing Testing

Mikey Palmice
06-11-2009, 06:12 PM
This is the bottom of the driveway mulch bed that eroded right through

Mikey Palmice
06-11-2009, 06:33 PM
Erosion on the slope

Mikey Palmice
06-11-2009, 06:43 PM
this part held up much better. I think because the topsoil up here was placed about two weeks before the parts that messed up

Mikey Palmice
06-11-2009, 06:46 PM
This side wasn't too bad.

Mikey Palmice
06-11-2009, 07:17 PM
Germination blankets from lowes. I bought four of em and put em in the problem areas.

Mikey Palmice
06-11-2009, 07:18 PM
I re-spread the straw in some areas and it looks more filled in now. I picked up two packages of shredded straw to fill it in more.

I think the heavy rain was out of the ordinary and I think the soil will hold up now.

Mikey Palmice
06-11-2009, 07:21 PM
Ok, those were the pictures so far.

You guys notice anything bad? advice?

More straw is needed, right?

I added more seed yesterday and top dressed it with some more top soil. would straw on top of that be good?

Can seeds get into moist top soil naturally without covering with top dressing? Is straw ontop of seed sitting on top of soil work at all? I mean in addition to what I put down already and what I think is in the soil still

thanks guys

bigslick7878
06-11-2009, 07:33 PM
Yeah you need the germination blankets...desperately.

You will never be able to grow seed this time of the year without them on those pitched slopes.

Like the blue stone,I have the same stuff for my walks/patio at my house.

That area next to the driveway might need to be sodded if the seed doesnt hold,really steep and gonna be hard to grow there.

Mikey Palmice
06-11-2009, 08:29 PM
Yeah you need the germination blankets...desperately.

You will never be able to grow seed this time of the year without them on those pitched slopes.

Like the blue stone,I have the same stuff for my walks/patio at my house.

That area next to the driveway might need to be sodded if the seed doesnt hold,really steep and gonna be hard to grow there.

So, even if the seed on the hills is intact in the soil (where it didn't erode), it will still have a tough time on the hill?

I love the blue stone, I just got that done a couple months ago. I capped my concrete stoop with it as well.

I also filled in more straw on the flat parts just now. I will get some more pics up tonight.

Mikey Palmice
06-11-2009, 09:15 PM
Fill in some more straw. Raining lightly for the last few hours:)

Mikey Palmice
06-11-2009, 09:16 PM
And the other side

does this look like the appropriate amount of straw?

in some areas, the ground is very mushy. Between that storm and that it's been raining so much since that, it's getting bad in spots.

Is this bad, I guess I will have to address it next time around?

bigslick7878
06-11-2009, 09:56 PM
Plenty of straw probably a little too much no big deal though.

The key thing to growing seed is keeping it moist,on a hill like that almost impossible unless you are watering 5 x a day.

Its just very hard to establish grass from seed period not to mention having a run off like that repelling all the water.

That's another thing...whats the water situation? Do you have irrigation?

Mikey Palmice
06-11-2009, 10:00 PM
I have three spike rotating sprinkers that I will be putting out when needed. I was planning on watering in the AM, like 7 or 8. maybe around noon and again around 5 or 6. It hasn't stopped raining though, so I haven't tried yet.

bigslick7878
06-11-2009, 10:14 PM
I have three spike rotating sprinkers that I will be putting out when needed. I was planning on watering in the AM, like 7 or 8. maybe around noon and again around 5 or 6. It hasn't stopped raining though, so I haven't tried yet.

The more water,the better the results.If you can keep up with 3x a day that is perfect.

Do whatever you have to do but water water and more water,especially on the hills.

If you are watering properly you should see germination about 8 days from when you seeded.The soil is warm right now so it should come up quick if watered properly.

Mikey Palmice
06-11-2009, 10:21 PM
ground hasn't been dry since I put em in. forecast is rain all day until about 3pm. Saturday and sunday I will be home during the day hours. Next week I can get the morning and evening watering and have my wife do the middle of day one.

It's time to be patient I guess. I always hate waiting for seed to grow. I'm expecting spotty results, but you never know. I guess whatever I do get, in the fall it will be hit again.

bigslick7878
06-11-2009, 10:27 PM
ground hasn't been dry since I put em in. forecast is rain all day until about 3pm. Saturday and sunday I will be home during the day hours. Next week I can get the morning and evening watering and have my wife do the middle of day one.

It's time to be patient I guess. I always hate waiting for seed to grow. I'm expecting spotty results, but you never know. I guess whatever I do get, in the fall it will be hit again.

Just have another bag of seed ready,it wont all come in evenly.I would overseed again at about the 10 day mark.You should be able to see where it isn't coming in good by then in certain spots.

Mikey Palmice
06-11-2009, 10:46 PM
I assume if there are puddles in the soil, it's a low spot and would need to be filled in with more topsoil?

bigslick7878
06-11-2009, 10:46 PM
I assume if there are puddles in the soil, it's a low spot and would need to be filled in with more topsoil?

Pretty much.

Mikey Palmice
06-14-2009, 12:25 PM
Ok, after only 6 days, I am already seeing some grass come up. I would say something like a quarter inch. I have barely had to water it, the grounds been wet from rain for the whole week pretty much.

I first put the seeds down last Monday. And than added more seed on tuesday after the landslide. The next few days will be very telling of how much seed was lost.

Question, the straw in some spots got clumped up and there is some soil exposed. Now that the seeds are sprouting, is it a bad idea to soft rake the straw around to spread it out again?

thanks
I will put up some more pics later

bigslick7878
06-14-2009, 12:55 PM
Ok, after only 6 days, I am already seeing some grass come up. I would say something like a quarter inch. I have barely had to water it, the grounds been wet from rain for the whole week pretty much.

I first put the seeds down last Monday. And than added more seed on tuesday after the landslide. The next few days will be very telling of how much seed was lost.

Question, the straw in some spots got clumped up and there is some soil exposed. Now that the seeds are sprouting, is it a bad idea to soft rake the straw around to spread it out again?

thanks
I will put up some more pics later

Yep 6 days is about right with the soil temps this time of year.Like I said about 10 days you will be able to see some of the bare spots that aren't coming in and can add more seed as necessary.

You can rake or do whatever but be very careful,you can rip the new grass out easily at this stage.If the straw is clumped up in certain spots you could always just use your hands to even it back out rather than a rake.

Mikey Palmice
06-20-2009, 01:06 PM
I have been meaning to take some pictures, hopefully today. The grass is coming in in most spots pretty good. The eroded spots are the worst.

question, I am using the DuPont germination blankets and the grass is coming up through it. When to I remove the blankets? I read somewhere on here that the grass can stick to the blanket if you let it get long enough and rip out when you pick up the blanket. Is this the case?

thanks

Mikey Palmice
06-20-2009, 10:53 PM
12 Days since seeding

Mikey Palmice
06-20-2009, 10:58 PM
Some more pics

Mikey Palmice
06-20-2009, 11:01 PM
for 12 days, is this good? It has been raining pretty much every day and should continue for another week

bigslick7878
06-20-2009, 11:12 PM
Its weird its really tall but the coverage isn't quite up to par.

Did you put down enough seed??

You have to LOAD the seed if you are starting from scratch..it looks like you used about 25% of what you needed.I mean really heavy especially the first time,take whatever recommendation is on the bag and throw it out the window.

But with seeding,seed seed and seed again.

You need to go over the entire area again and lay it on thick,open up the spreader all the way (if its a standard push behind.)

Its a good start,no weeds that I see but a long way to go to get it thick.

Weather this week is supposed to dry out for the northeast starting Tuesday,if it does you need to ramp up the watering.

I cant really tell from the pics but how much shade is around that house? I see that under that tree is probably shady but cant tell from the pic how much shade is around the grass that came in thin.

Mikey Palmice
06-20-2009, 11:22 PM
There is a pretty good amount of shade along the driveway. And in front of the house there is sun part of the day, but mostly not too bad.

Now, when I reseed, do I just seed on top of the soil? do I cover it?
thanks. I must say though, that the last couple of days it started coming up much better. So, I hope it will fill in more.

Should I run the spreader over the entire area and just let the seed sit on top of the soil?

should I pick up the germination blanket so the grass doesn't start to stick to it?

thanks

Mikey Palmice
06-20-2009, 11:25 PM
the pictures might be a bit deceiving, because the blades of grass are only about a half inch tall. I had the camera held down very low and in close

bigslick7878
06-20-2009, 11:39 PM
There is a pretty good amount of shade along the driveway. And in front of the house there is sun part of the day, but mostly not too bad.

Now, when I reseed, do I just seed on top of the soil? do I cover it?
thanks. I must say though, that the last couple of days it started coming up much better. So, I hope it will fill in more.

Should I run the spreader over the entire area and just let the seed sit on top of the soil?

should I pick up the germination blanket so the grass doesn't start to stick to it?

thanks

At this point just take the spreader and go over it.Roll it if you can,it helps big time to ensure the seed has soil all the way around it by packing it in.

As far as the blanket,just pull them up and lay them down again after you seed.

The pictures are fine,if I can I will take a picture of an area I seeded a week ago straight from dirt to show you what it should look like.

The grass doesnt really "fill in" per say it just gets thicker...so you need to have entire coverage with young grass and then it will thicken up to "fill in" so to speak.What you have right now are large distances between the new blades....the only thing that will fill in there are weeds if you aren't careful.

At 9 days I have pretty much complete coverage,with new grass blades within a cm of each other from front to back.It will take another 2 weeks(minimum) for it to thicken up and look like mature grass.

Put it this way,I would put your coverage at about 20% if I had to guess.You Just have huge gaps in between the blades....it needs to be hardly any spacing in between the new grass and THEN it will "thicken up".

Mikey Palmice
06-20-2009, 11:55 PM
Thanks for the reply. Now, when you say roll it again, you want me to seed everywhere and roll over the existing grass? I guess, not too heavy with the roller?

bigslick7878
06-21-2009, 12:08 AM
Yes seed everywhere again and roll it all.I would go over the entire area with a spreader and then throw some more by hand in the obvious bare spots.

Its actually good you have some shade,weeds LOVE sun and a partial sun area is ideal for keeping weeds at bay especially this time of year.

Rolling it wont hurt the new grass,it will just pop back up by the next day when it gets some sunlight.

With it being so wet lately ( and watering) you can just fill the roller up half way and it will be fine......no need to fill it all the way with all that weight.

Seeding from scratch is a long process,just be patient.