Revenue Expectations for a One Man Show

[Russo]

Couldn't find this on search.

I've read a bunch of posts discussing the NUMBER of accounts that solo guys produce, but all job sizes are different. My question is...

HOW MUCH REVENUE DO YOU SOLO GUYS SELL AND PRODUCE IN A YEAR? IN A WEEK? HOW ABOUT THE FIRST YEAR?

Any advice you feel should coincide with a response would be much appreciated.

Thank you in advance, Landscraper.

[tailoredlook]

My first year I sold 25k Year 2 32k and this year expected to sell 40k.
I not only sell maintenence but installations and constrution as well. It all depends on how many hours you are willing to work.
Its easy for me no wife or kids so I can go dark to dark.

[MARYLANDMOWER]

If you grossed $40,000 a year, what do net? It hardly seems worth it.

[Russo]

That's my concern, marylandmower. Can one man ( me ) produce enough on his own? Seems like even 60 k wouldn't turn an operating profit that paid more than a decent day job. Somebody, please prove me wrong with your experiences.

I'm assuming that a solo would have no other job and is willing to work about 60 hrs / during season. Mowing as primary service, and about 30% extra srevices like pruning, install and mulch.

[f350]

SO QUITE!!!! go work at wal-mart

[MARYLANDMOWER]

Hey Lanscraper,
I did around 50K last year part-time, with one very part-time helper. I also do snow removal, which has not been much. I am not familiar with your market, but if you are willing to work 60 hrs a week like you say, and you are not a lowballer you should be able to make a nice living. If you are a young guy and can afford to go for it, just remember you can always go out a get a "regular job" if things don't work out. Live the dream!!!! By the way I netted around 35k. That's better than most full-time jobs unless you have a good education.

[bubble boy]

basically seems like you are wondering if you can make a living at this solo.

without getting into specifics, such as price, hours worked, etc, you can do quite well solo. we run crews without z's, but if your solo and have a z, i can see clearing $30 000 as not being a prob. I would believe $50 000 is feasible profit if you are in a year round market, or snowplow. and remember, if you snowplow really you are working only 3/4 of the year out in the field.

work like a dog, one truck, maybe with a helper and over $50 000 possible. of course you must build up to this.

and you dont have a boss to answer to.

[Runner]

Originally posted by MARYLANDMOWER
Hey Lanscraper,By the way I netted around 35k. That's better than most full-time jobs unless you have a good education.
And that's not to mention that that is working 7 - 8 months out of the year. If you do it right, you can use this time off to your advantage. Vacation, etc. Some of us, yes, go a little stircrazy, and opt to do something else during the winter, but that's o.k.., too. This is the time, for instance, that the church KNOWS I'm available to help out with things, so there's no getting out of it!:rolleyes: :D Anyway, like any other contractor(cement, or otherwise,) we have to budget and make way. It isn't too bad, though.;)

[MARYLANDMOWER]

Runner,
Very good point about the 7-8 months a year. I did not even think about that, because I still have to go to my "other" job the rest of the year.

[theplantdoctor]

Originally posted by bubble boy


and you dont have a boss to answer to.

I have about 100 that I answer to!:p

Ken

[heygrassman]

Bubbleboy and Maryland, are you doing apps and installations or just maintenance?

TIA

jf

[MARYLANDMOWER]

I do 90% Mowing. Mulching in early spring. Very little install. and no applications (not licensed). Also snow removal. I am also a journyman electrician, so I do some small service work in the winter.

[Russo]

My projection #s say about the same as you guys are telling me. I guess I needed a little a kick in the a$$ from those of you who have been there.

Most importantly, I appreciate the reminders about those factors that you can't put a dollar figure on; " living the dream " as they say. I almost forgot that that's what it's all about.

Thanks to all of you so far. Please keep 'em comin.

Landscraper

[LawnLad]

I don't think it would be unreasonable to expect a solo operator to produce $70,000 plus in a season, gross sales - excluding material costs. Assuming the typical synergies of working out of your own home and having very low overhead, I'm sure profit/salary could be over $40,000.

Here's the catch though. Working 40 weeks at 50 hours per week production would be 2,000 hours or $35.00 per hour return. I think you can bring back more per hour, and I think you can earn more. Question is whether you're willing to work that much.

But beyond the 2000 hours of production, you still have the run the "business" part of things. Billing, sales, administrative stuff, etc. Figure another 500 plus hours into the equation (10 hrs a week) and this might be in the ball park. Or you can "hire" the wife.

Now, if you want to grow and add more employees, you'll need to either cut back on your work load or hire on and employee part time to help wth production. This increases your costs. Bottom line, if you're going to grow your business, you'll need time to develop it. This means reading, researching, organizing, writing, etc. A business isn't born overnight.

So, to be solo, and want to grow a business, I could easily see someone spending 3,000 plus hours a year working (60 hrs a week on average). As things grow a little, you may be able to lighten your load. At times during the year I work between 40 and 80 hours a week. I don't know many business owners who are working on their businesses that have "normal" 9 to 5 jobs. It's all a matter of expectations and what you want to achieve. For many, $30,000 a year in sales is fine, for others, it's not. It just takes time if you want more.

[MARYLANDMOWER]

Lanscraper,
I would like to add one more thing. I work 2 jobs. I get up at 5:00 am everyday go to work then go mow, then come and do paper work or get ready for the next day or whatever, usally I done everything by 10:00 pm. Sound miserable? I am the happiest guy in the world! Just bought a nice house in the country, drive 1999 F-350 and play golf on weekends (sun). I could not have done what I have done without my mowing business. Go for it and Good Luck!!! Dave

[bubble boy]

Originally posted by LawnLad

But beyond the 2000 hours of production, you still have the run the "business" part of things. Billing, sales, administrative stuff, etc....

I don't know many business owners who are working on their businesses that have "normal" 9 to 5 jobs.

anyone starting should remember this. it's not a job, but your life. often at all hours and any hours. whats worse, answering a boss 8 hrs a day or answering to yourself 24 hrs a day?

heygrassman-we do full fert and pesticide porograms. we enjoy doing small jobs, but with no skid steer limited in size. enjoy the jobs, change of pace from cutting.

[eggy]

I have been doing this for about four full time years, and can say I make a decent living. Im I getting rich no, do i make ok money and live good lifestyle yes. Do I mow on the weekends, nope no more. Do I start around 9am and finish by appx. 5pm yep. Do i get 120 vacation days in the winter? yep. Hmmm you cant put a price on free time in my eyes. Someone said is it worth it? Hmm lets see 40 hours in at the office or forty outside being my on boss, hmmm I will say yes. If all you are doing is mowing you should look at what jobs working for the man pay guys that just mow, and that shpould give you a idea of what to net. Some of your gross profits from your net profits seem to be far apart I didnt get that much a solo guy in my eyes needs about 15,000.00 in equipment plus a truck, Insurance good looking uniforms and a few other misc. iteims. Just my thoughts....

[mike payne]

I am hopeing to make 40,000 this year as a solo operator. To me, this is better than working for the man and having my life dicated to me. I love being in control of my own destiny. Sink or swim, I have no one else to blame.

[LJ lawn]

my answer: not much.bad area to be in around here.

[Lawn-Scapes]

I would think around $75,000 would be a reasonable and respectable number for a solo working an average of 50 hours per week.

[creative concepts]

I would agree with TSG on his figure. I grossed about $80,000.00 my first year and progressively increased every year after. This will be my fourth full season on my own and I just hired my first two employees. I will gross close to $350,000.00 this year so if you put your heart and soul into it you can make as much or as little as you like. I do about 70% design/build and 30% maintenance.

[Andy Miller]

Around here, (Cincinnati) everyone and his brother is pulling around a landscape trailer because of the poor economy here. The competition for business is tremendous. Until you get a LOYAL customer base, do not expect big bucks.

[proline32]

I went from having crews to solo.....AND I LOVE IT!!! It is so nice to just get up at 7am, lounge around and start work at 9 am, and work till your are done, I don't have to call any body and tell them what to do, the other day I took off and went to a baseball game( couldn't do that when you have to find work for crew)....I'm projectig to do maybee 40,000 grand in 9 months and take the rest of the winter off, This year I'm keeping the expenses low to maximise profit .

[Brickman]

Season here is less than 8 months. Last year I grossed $80,000. With one employee for half the summer. Netted $30,000. That was working 70 hours a week May thru Sept. just working in town, without paper work, and equipment maint.

And yes, in this business we aren't our own bosses. We have how ever many customers we work for.

My first few years were very poor, income wise. I started out in 1996 with $500 worth of Wal Mart equipment, and working just on saturday. Now I have around $20,000 worth and drive a 2000 F 250 Powerstroke. Not every thing is paid for yet.
Don't expect to make the big bucks right away. Work into it and build a loyal customer base as you go. My biggest mistake to not growing faster was not putting my name in the yellow pages of the phone book. Once I did that, there has been no looking back, and the phone just rings off the hook in the season.

[bobbygedd]

bottom line is, a far as i can see, and after doing the numbers over and over, if u calculate every minute u put into the business, like paperwork, mechanical work, going on estimates, etc. u r probably making much less than minimum wage. one thing to remember is that if u "net" 30, 000, u still have to pay income tax, etc. and dont forget, being self employed, if u r responsible, u need health coverage too, that will cost u big time. cant see how a "good" living can be made operating solo, and dont forget, one accident, u r finished. who will do the work?

[Runner]

Let's not forget budgeting for retirement...

[bobbygedd]

retirement? damn u got to eat today, before u can plan on how u r gonna eat tommorow. i do admit, running your own business has feeling of accomplishment, i do this part time, and the cash is ok, for a part time job, my other job supplies me with bennies, 401 k, etc. its getting real tough guys, i told about my 5th estimate this week to kiss my a**, all were easily $35 cuts, i told them $33, they all said the same thing, "how bout $25? there are alot of guys around here who will go $25" . and yes, i "educated" them on the benefits of having a proffesional service, licensed, insured, licensed to do chemicals, etc. they couldnt care less. there r companies with the same qualifications who will go $25. real tough

[David Haggerty]

The type of equipment you operate will affect your earning potential.
Especially for the solo operator.

I've heard of people making a good living with a 60" ZTR and less.
But those people must have skills that I just don't have.

I've built up my equipment over the years, and now the future looks pretty rosey.
Maybe as much as $100k per year, with not too much overhead.

Dave

[eslawns]

Originally posted by mike payne
I am hopeing to make 40,000 this year as a solo operator. To me, this is better than working for the man and having my life dicated to me. I love being in control of my own destiny. Sink or swim, I have no one else to blame.

Ditto what he said.

I work less now, and enjoy the work I do more. I make a lot more money than at any "real" job I ever had, and have some input as to how the company is run.

My wife's family is always ragging me to "get a real job." When I did have a "real" job, I got stressed out if the car broke down, because I made just enough money to get by, and occasional expenses broke the bank.

Last year I wrote a check for $5368 for a ZTR mower. I never wrote a check for more than $1000 in my life before I started doing this. Now when I need something, I just go buy it.

I don't see myself getting rich doing this, but that was never the goal. A "real job? Thanks, but I'll pass.

[tailoredlook]

You're right, 40k gross aint much. But right now its not about the money, its about the freedom. Somewhere down the road im looking for 1Mil for sales, but right now Im happy just doin my own thing.
Like they say unless you're the lead dog the view never changes.And as long as you work making someone else rich the view will never change.

[Russo]

Just want to thank you all for sharing your experiences.

I've busted my hump for the last ten years in this industry to reach the level I've been at for the past couple of years....a managerial postion with truck and all that stuff. It's not all that I thought it would be. I spent the last year pruchasing equipement and developing a debt free business plan which I'm cuerrently implementing. Things are great, but I felt that I had to ask those of you actually made it what to expect, because when I tell people what I'm doing, seems like everyone says " oh,ya, I had my own landscape business once." Once? What's up with that?

Anyway, I know I can do a better job than those I am working for, and I really appreciate the encouragement and sound advice from those who took the time to post a reponse.

Thanks,
Landscraper.

[Guardian]

I guess I don't really count the hours spent on "the books" as work. I am in my third FT year and I enjoy the accounting & planning etc. Its almost relaxing.

For me, I average 35 hours in the field actually working, 1-2 hrs meeting with customers, 4-5 hrs servicing equipment (which I also completely enjoy) and 5 hrs in the office (I spend more time than that in the office, but its by choice). So a typical "Peak Season" week is appx 45-47 hrs.....and again, I spend less than 40 hrs away from home. During our 5 months of "OFF season", My schedule is cut in half! (Alot of time off)

...oh I guess we want to know what that lifestyle pays....gross: over $80k, true net: over $55k.

Where can I make that, take over 150 days off per year off and manage myself?

[bobbygedd]

that is awsome. wish i knew the way

[Brickman]

"Peak Season" week is appx 45-47 hrs.....and again, I spend less than 40 hrs away from home. During our 5 months of "OFF season", My schedule is cut in half! (Alot of time off)

...oh I guess we want to know what that lifestyle pays....gross: over $80k, true net: over $55k.



Man that must be nice. I spend 60+ hours a week just in town, and a whole lot more in the office and servicing equipment. For the same gross, and a whole lot less net.
I too wish I knew the secret.

[OBRYANMAINT]

As landscaper said it seems many poeple have said they had a landscaping business in the past.....generally these are the same people that have done everything once and did not do well or failed

My opinion is it is not to terribly hard to succeed in this field and the level you take it to is up to you

[Guardian]

Brickman -
How do you price yourself out? Do you have an annual contracts? Do you do commercial work? One of my keys is to pursue contracts. Its not always easy to get them, but it is possible. I probably had 10-12 my 1st year and double that the second.

I am constantly searching for ways to more efficient on the job. Our system is so fast and noone feels over worked. (This also applies to the type of equip. you use)

...with a name like Brickman, you should have money rolling in!

[Brickman]

Guardian,
I do have some annual contracts. One with the National Weather service has been a 3 year contract, up for renewal this fall. As long as I keep them happy I don't think that I have much to fear there.
I do a mixture of residential and commercial. More and more commercial every year. One thing that slows me down is that I am too picky about how my lawns look. And lazy. I also know that I am inefficient, but am daily working to improve that.
Another thing is that almost nobody here has every heard about mulching or discharging the grass. So it all has to be bagged and hauled off. Except the scrubs seem to get away without bagging. That takes alot of time, time spent running to the truck to dump.

I know that there is a big company here in the US that goes by the name Brickman. But as far as I know I am not related to them, I am hoping that one day they will move into Cheyenne and then I can sell out to them for a profit. (Good luck :rolleyes: )
My goal this year is not to gross any more than last year, but to improve so that I make more. Will see.

[Guardian]

Well Brickman, it seems that you are on the right track.

My advice on the mulching is to:

#1 demo an eXmark with a mulch kit on it and see for yourself how awesome it is without bagging.

#2 Get some of the "Grass-Cycling" brochures from eXmark. They are great to hand out to customers. They completely explain the benefits of mulching vs. bagging.

If you didn't bag, that alone would increase efficiency dramatically.

...oh and if you haven't incorporated yet, spend the few hundred bucks and DO IT ASAP! That was my biggest improvement this year! Will save me over $3000!

[Runner]

Originally posted by Brickman Lawn Care

I know that there is a big company here in the US that goes by the name Brickman. But as far as I know I am not related to them, I am hoping that one day they will move into Cheyenne and then I can sell out to them for a profit. (Good luck :rolleyes: )

Let's just hope, in the meantime, that they don't send you some letter saying something stupid like "Because the name Brickman is under a copyright, we are demanding that this name no longer be used in association with your business."
This seemed to be a topic of conversation somewhere else around here.

[Brickman]

You are not kidding about the bagging taking alot of time. But there is no way I could get some of my long time customers to accept mulching. Some of them go inspect the lawn after I have been there with a magnafying glass.
I have a Walker, and have heard really good things about the mulching deck for them. I might have to get my dealer to let me demo one. That is one nice thing about the Walker, I can change decks in only a few minutes by myself.
Thanks for the advice on starting a corporation.
I might sell out this fall and go to hauling cars full time. But alot can change. I have had my business for sale since I started in 1996 and not sold yet. The killer for me is the winters are so long without enough snow to count on for removal. So what happens is you bust your hump ALL summer long, and then come winter when you could go out of town for a week or two you can't because it might snow. But of course doesn't. :mad: :( :rolleyes:
That is why I seriously consider selling all the time. But on the other hand I don't know where else I could make as good of money for as lazy as I am. LOL


We are not in this business for our health.

[Brickman]

Runner quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Brickman Lawn Care

I know that there is a big company here in the US that goes by the name Brickman. But as far as I know I am not related to them, I am hoping that one day they will move into Cheyenne and then I can sell out to them for a profit. (Good luck )

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Let's just hope, in the meantime, that they don't send you some letter saying something stupid like "Because the name Brickman is under a copyright, we are demanding that this name no longer be used in association with your business."
This seemed to be a topic of conversation somewhere else around here.



Yes Runner I saw that this morning. If that happens I will change to TLC maintenance in a heart beat.

T the

L lawn

C company

Honestly I don't see how they could do that to me. They go by Brickman Group LTD.
Mine is useing my last name and going Brickman Lawn Care with it. I don't expect problems, but if it happes I am ready.

http://www.brickmangroup.com/default.htm
Check them out, they are huge.

[kris]

Originally posted by Guardian
Well Brickman, it seems that you are on the right track.

My advice on the mulching is to:

#1 demo an eXmark with a mulch kit on it and see for yourself how awesome it is without bagging.

#2 Get some of the "Grass-Cycling" brochures from eXmark. They are great to hand out to customers. They completely explain the benefits of mulching vs. bagging.

If you didn't bag, that alone would increase efficiency dramatically.



Brickman ...listen to Guardian ... IMO he is %100 on the money.. I cant imagine not mulching .. the eXmark does a great job ...you'll get no complaints and it's so much better for the turf.

[Brickman]

Thank you all for the good advice. I am going to look into a mulching deck for my Walker asap. I have heard that the Walker mulching deck pretty much makes grass disappear.

Kris what part of Alberta are you from? I have visited the Brooks area more than once, and have friends there. I have also gone fishing with them. I wish I could go more often.

As for customers that don't want me to mulch I will just print
off what you guys say here, make copies and hand them to them. LOL

[TGCummings]

Guardian's got the right plan. Less than 40 hours a week in the field with $80,000 in revenue solo is about what I've got game planned out to make. It's all in the pricing: knowing what you need to make to cover expenses and knowing the profit level you have to make on each job to get your money in the production hours you set up.

I know I can work 3 10-hour days (in the field - drive time, break time, and lunch time -- 7 1/2 hours on the job app.) and 1 5-hour day, leaving a day and a half free for catch up and a weekend off every week. I know how much I want to make when my schedule is full. I then break down how much I have to charge each production hour and measure my lawns for accurate time-on-job. I then charge accordingly. When my schedule is full (35 hours in the field, 25-30 hours on the job), I should make in the $60-$80,000/year range, solo. Of course, I work year around so those of you with off-seasons have to adjust your price accordingly.

Now, here's the hard part: patience. Everyone has a different 'pay scale', especially the companies that have no idea what they're doing. If you have a high ideal for a lifestyle (as do I), you're going to be among the highest prices in your market. That means, of course, you won't close every sale -- even if you're the best there is, are professional, and you project positive pheromones, doors will slam in your face. You have to work with a smaller schedule, tighten the waist belt and grow slowly.

But you'll make it, if you stick to your guns.

Some guys get lucky enough to make $80,000 their first year. Some, like myself, are still striving for that lofty goal. I'll get there, though, and so can you.

And when we get there we'll raise our rates. ;)

[Brickman]

Thanks for all the good advice guys. I too wish along with a lot of other guys that I had found this site when I first started in 1996. But there is no point in crying over spilled milk.

Just to let you know I called my Walker Rep today and asked him to bring me a mulching deck the next time he is up my way. I will give it a try. I know there are a bunch of lawns I can use it on, and nobody will notice. Maybe I can put all the ones that want it bagged on one route, and the rest of the time mulch. We will see how it all works.