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Ciero
06-04-2009, 08:36 PM
I have a cub cadet with a Kohler 18hp magnum. It smokes really bad. I pulled one of the heads and can see a pool of oil in the cylinder. The piston has some slop in it. Is there anyway possible that I can just swap the rings without getting a new piston, new bearings, boring the cylinder, etc. I am laid off right now and I need to get this tractor running again with as little cost as possible. I know that this isn't the right attitude to take when it comes to these things but the difference in spending an extra couple hundred dollars could mean I can't do anything with it. I don't care if it will need a rebuild in a couple of years or I don't get maximum performance out of it. I only run about 45 min a week. Thank you in advance.

ed2hess
06-05-2009, 09:11 PM
I'll bump this along I have two 15hp Kohler engines that are burning oil and wondered the same. I am guessing that that may not be the only way oil gets into the top of the cyclinder. Maybe the valve steam seals leak also?

Restrorob
06-05-2009, 11:05 PM
Ciero,

Just to slap a new set of standard or .003" oversize rings in there is going to put you in the $150 range with the needed gaskets, Then the cylinders would need to be de-glazed/re-cross hatched so the new rings could break in. Now you are closer to the $200 range. The only way to tell if new standard rings would be worth the money/effort would be to measure the piston and cylinder bore. This would require a micrometer and telescopic gage with proper measuring procedures/specs.....

Ciero
06-08-2009, 04:00 PM
Thank for the reply. This will probably be the route I will take. I will let you know if I wasted my time by not doing everything that I should have done. There are some gouges in the cylinder and should probably need to be bored. But I am not interested in swapping the pistons so I will see how it goes.

VegetiveSteam
06-08-2009, 04:16 PM
In answer to your question yes, you can just buy and install new rings without doing all of the other things your mentioned. Now the next question is, will that help your problem? Maybe, maybe not. Like Rob said you need to have the bore measured. If by some miracle you have only ring wear and no major bore wear you may be able to just go back with a standard set of rings. And again back to what Rob said you would need to have the cylinders deglazed. If the bore is worn to the point a standard set of rings won't help then all you can do is bore it to the next size over which would be
.010 or .020 depending on the wear. A .003 over sized ring set could be a great help if they existed. Kohler does offer a .003 piston and ring set but it's only the piston that is .003 over size. It's a common misconception that the rings are also over sized but they just standard rings. New rings might help reduce your smoking problem but there are no promises.

ed2hess
06-08-2009, 10:28 PM
In answer to your question yes, you can just buy and install new rings without doing all of the other things your mentioned. Now the next question is, will that help your problem? Maybe, maybe not. Like Rob said you need to have the bore measured. If by some miracle you have only ring wear and no major bore wear you may be able to just go back with a standard set of rings. And again back to what Rob said you would need to have the cylinders deglazed. If the bore is worn to the point a standard set of rings won't help then all you can do is bore it to the next size over which would be
.010 or .020 depending on the wear. A .003 over sized ring set could be a great help if they existed. Kohler does offer a .003 piston and ring set but it's only the piston that is .003 over size. It's a common misconception that the rings are also over sized but they just standard rings. New rings might help reduce your smoking problem but there are no promises.

I'll try my question again maybe dumb but can't oil get past the valve stem bearings?

Restrorob
06-08-2009, 11:28 PM
Sorry Ed,

Valve stem seals do help to reduce oil intake into the cylinder during operation, But... When a seal does go bad it only lets a small amount of oil past the valve guide which in most cases is not enough to cause continuous heavy smoking/pooling of oil.

If the seal/guide was worn enough to let oil past to pool in the cylinder then the valve would most likely not seat well enough to let the engine run.

Ciero
06-09-2009, 11:10 AM
I should add that I check compression before taking the motor apart. I didn't do a leak down check though. The compression was at 90 psi. From my understanding this is probably normal for a motor with 900 hrs on it. I am hoping that I have a bad oil ring.

RonAyersMotorsports
06-09-2009, 05:10 PM
This is not normal!!! More than likely your engine has had dirt ingestion from blowing filters out instead of replacing. I can't stress enough don't blow filters out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ed2hess
06-09-2009, 10:19 PM
This is not normal!!! More than likely your engine has had dirt ingestion from blowing filters out instead of replacing. I can't stress enough don't blow filters out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On something like a 15hp single cyclinder Kohler what amount of time could I expect on an air filter? Are you saying it would be better to just let the dirt build up on the filter rather than blow it out? I assume you are saying that blowing out a filter actually damages it? Would it be better to simply knock it against concrete to clean it up a little?

Restrorob
06-09-2009, 10:54 PM
On something like a 15hp single cyclinder Kohler what amount of time could I expect on an air filter? Are you saying it would be better to just let the dirt build up on the filter rather than blow it out? I assume you are saying that blowing out a filter actually damages it? Would it be better to simply knock it against concrete to clean it up a little?


The manual states;


http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m314/Restrorob/Kohler/CV/KohlerCV1116AirFilterCleaning.jpg

Air filter life depends on conditions ?

Ciero
06-10-2009, 02:06 AM
This is not normal!!! More than likely your engine has had dirt ingestion from blowing filters out instead of replacing. I can't stress enough don't blow filters out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As far as the history of this tractor, I am not sure. It was my fathers and I got it when he passed away. All I could find out about the tractor is that he had bought the tractor and shortly after it started smoking then he put it away. When I got it there was a brand new filter on it. I don't know why the motor is in the condition that it is, but I am just trying to get it to run semi normal again. It is a nice cub cadet. This is the last piece of machinery of his that I need to get into working order. You guys should see this old Ford snowblower of his that I got running. I use it every winter.

SLR
06-10-2009, 11:49 AM
You guys should see this old Ford snowblower of his that I got running. I use it every winter.

Yes your right,'we' should see.
(pics)

Ciero
06-10-2009, 02:21 PM
I will get pics up either today or tomorrow. If I remember how to post pics.

pugs
06-10-2009, 03:12 PM
Is the correct amount of oil in it?

Ciero
06-10-2009, 03:44 PM
yes, I double checked the oil level. I even changed the oil to eliminate the possibility that there was fuel in the oil. It was actually a little low before I took it apart. The motor was burning the oil fast.

shop manager
06-10-2009, 04:52 PM
I re-ring my walkers with CH20S and Ch26 Kohlers every 1000 hrs... all I do is hone the cylinders, replace rings and gaskets and clean the heads up... been doin fine for 5 yrs now and they run 5-6 days a week all day long year round... well, they slow down a tad in Jan/ feb....

Ciero
06-10-2009, 10:15 PM
I re-ring my walkers with CH20S and Ch26 Kohlers every 1000 hrs... all I do is hone the cylinders, replace rings and gaskets and clean the heads up... been doin fine for 5 yrs now and they run 5-6 days a week all day long year round... well, they slow down a tad in Jan/ feb....

Sounds encouraging. I feel like I am only doing the job half ass by just swapping the rings. I was also a little worried that without boring and getting a larger piston, I would see no improvement. The clyinders do show some wear and probably could use getting bored out, but I am just on too tight of a budget and the tractor would be a second riding mower for me. I only use it on my yard and not for commercial use.

Ciero
06-11-2009, 03:11 PM
Originally Posted by Ciero
You guys should see this old Ford snowblower of his that I got running. I use it every winter.

Yes your right,'we' should see.
(pics)
Any guesses on what year this is?

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g151/GTPed97/IMG_5771.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g151/GTPed97/IMG_5773.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g151/GTPed97/IMG_5772.jpg

ed2hess
06-11-2009, 06:42 PM
I re-ring my walkers with CH20S and Ch26 Kohlers every 1000 hrs... all I do is hone the cylinders, replace rings and gaskets and clean the heads up... been doin fine for 5 yrs now and they run 5-6 days a week all day long year round... well, they slow down a tad in Jan/ feb....

When you say hone do you mean one of those devices with 3 shoes that can be run with a drill? Basically you are just roughing up the surface so the new rings run in better correct?

Ciero
06-11-2009, 07:29 PM
I am assuming he is talking about deglazing the cylinders to allow the rings to break in.