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ksJoe
06-06-2009, 06:41 PM
Hi, I'm a homeowner considering getting a irrigation well some time in the next 6 months or so, and have a few questions. Its for our for our 6 zone sprinkler system on about 8,000 square feet of lawn.

I'm trying to figure out how much it would save me. I googled a few well pump specs to see how much electricity they use. But I'm not sure if the amperage rating on the spec sheet is the typical/minimum/maximum operating rate, at what depth, etc. Do you guys have any general estimations like: "on a well ### foot deep, it takes about XXX kilowatt hours per thousand gallons"

Another question is what's approximate cost of installation. I've heard they don't have to be very deep around here, and about half the yards in the neighborhood have them.

I'm in Andover Ks. Are there any well installers on this site who work around here?

Thanks!

hoskm01
06-06-2009, 07:52 PM
Hi, I'm a homeowner considering getting a irrigation well some time in the next 6 months or so, and have a few questions. Its for our for our 6 zone sprinkler system on about 8,000 square feet of lawn.

I'm trying to figure out how much it would save me. I googled a few well pump specs to see how much electricity they use. But I'm not sure if the amperage rating on the spec sheet is the typical/minimum/maximum operating rate, at what depth, etc. Do you guys have any general estimations like: "on a well ### foot deep, it takes about XXX kilowatt hours per thousand gallons"

Another question is what's approximate cost of installation. I've heard they don't have to be very deep around here, and about half the yards in the neighborhood have them.

I'm in Andover Ks. Are there any well installers on this site who work around here?

Thanks!
Will depend on how much water and at what pressure you are wanting to move. Lots of variables.

They make some pretty efficient motors these days; cost of the electricity probably is not your major concern.

ksJoe
06-06-2009, 08:31 PM
Yeah, I knew I couldn't get an accurate number. I'm just trying to get a rough idea on operating cost. Like... is 50% of city water (not worth it to me), 10% (worth it), or 1% (very worth it... more or less "free").

Thanks for the comment.

hoskm01
06-06-2009, 08:38 PM
What do you pay for city water? Is your rate structure tiered? How much do you expect to use with the new system over 8k'?

What does your electricity cost? I enjoy these comparisons; "just the facts, mam!"

Wet_Boots
06-06-2009, 09:18 PM
Start with the numbers for the existing system. What pressures and flows?

In rough terms, your city water dollars can become well water dimes. You just have to spend a four-figure sum to make it happen.

DanaMac
06-06-2009, 09:20 PM
Also, think about how long you will be at this home. Are you planning on 2-5 years? or is this a lifelong home? ROI won't be realized for quite a few years.

ksJoe
06-06-2009, 09:43 PM
I was trying to spare you from doing the calculations.... I'm an engineer, I can do the math I just need to know the inputs :)

Electricity is around $0.083 / per KWH ( I think thats about right... they don't print it on the bill, so I subtracted off what looked like flat rate stuff and calculated it).

The water rate structure is tiered. The low rate (up to 110% of average winter usage) is $0.00187 / gallon. The next tier (up to 310% of winter usage) is $0.00712 / gallon. I don't know what the third tier is, because we haven't hit it yet. It occurs to me... despite all their city's promotion of water conservation, I could save a tone of money if I wasted a lot of water during the winter. If I don't get a well, I think I'll fire up the sprinkler system on a warm winter day and run it nonstop for couple days (then blow it out again).

We have a sprinkler system. Its currently on city water. I think there is room to drill a well about 25' from where the PVB is located. It ought to be a pretty easy install.

The thing I don't know how to estimate is how much electricity it takes.

unit28
06-06-2009, 09:46 PM
kWh cost .083 / total run time / 60...= total kWh cost per complete cycle

sound right?

Wet_Boots
06-06-2009, 10:04 PM
Having a PVB on the existing system is a slight problem. You might want to get a pressure gauge and connect it to a testcock or blowout valve. With a zone running, you close the supply valve until the pressure reading has dropped 10 psi.

Do the sprinklers still work okay? You are looking at what you will have when the PVB is removed and an RPZ is put in its place.

ksJoe
06-06-2009, 10:12 PM
Why is the PVB a problem? I was thinking that made it real obvious where the sprinkler gets its water supply. So drill a well nearby, run a pipe to where the PVB is, take out the PVB and hook up the pipe from the well at the proper depth.

The PVB is on the side of the house, and the pipe supplying it is easily accessible from the basement. So it will be trivial to remove the old supply to the PVB/sprinkler.

I'll get a gauge and check the pressure (not tonight).

ksJoe
06-06-2009, 10:17 PM
kWh cost .083 / total run time / 60...= total kWh cost per complete cycle

sound right?

no, a KWH is a kilo (1000) watt hour. So thats a 1,000 watt item for 1 hour, a 100 watt item for 10 hours, a 2,000 watt item for 1/2 hour, etc.

The pump will cycle on and off (I assume?) so for the supposedly shallow depths around here, I need to know how many watts (or amps) it requires at what water rate. Then I should be able to get to a rough guess of gallons per killowatt hour.

Wet_Boots
06-06-2009, 10:32 PM
Why is the PVB a problem? I was thinking that made it real obvious where the sprinkler gets its water supply. So drill a well nearby, run a pipe to where the PVB is, take out the PVB and hook up the pipe from the well at the proper depth.

The PVB is on the side of the house, and the pipe supplying it is easily accessible from the basement. So it will be trivial to remove the old supply to the PVB/sprinkler.

I'll get a gauge and check the pressure (not tonight).The PVB is not a problem. Once you remove it and relace it with an RPZ, it will make a lovely paperweight.

Why will you remove it? You will, because the nice people in your local and state government will want it that way, because no one who has city-fed sprinklers ever wants to give up access to that source, even if you spent a few thousand on a well. Your local officials will never allow any interconnection between city water and ground water unless an RPZ protects the city water. And frankly, it makes sense to have a backup in the event the pump goes bad. So figure in the RPZ expense and pressure loss.

TRILAWNCARE
06-07-2009, 12:36 AM
Read this quote.


I receive many phone calls regarding “How much will it cost to run my irrigation pump?”

In order to figure how much it’s going to cost, we must know a few facts first. What voltage are we using, what HP is the pump and lastly, how much is a Kilowatt. Obviously electricity prices vary from area to area, so we will use a nice round number of 10 cents a Kilowatt (adjust accordingly for your area).

Below is an example that we can work through together. Here is the scenario: We are using a 5hp pump @ 230 volts.

A 5 hp pump draws 28 amps at 230 volts. (See chart below for various HP’s)
Since our electric bills are based upon Kilowatts, we must now convert. This is the formula we would use:

Watts equals Volts times Amps.
Thus, 230 volts times 28 amps equals 6440 watts.
Thus, 6440 watts divided by 1000 equals 6.44 Kilowatts.
Thus, 6.44 Kilowatts times 10 cents an hour equals 64 cents an hour.
Thus, the pump will cost 64 cents an hour to run.

Hopefully, this answers the question, “How much will it cost to run my irrigation pump?”

Damian Zawacki
Technical Training Manager
John Deere Landscapes



All these amperages are estimates. The only way to get a true amperage draw is by reading the amps at the job site, while the pump is running.

1 Hp draws 8 amps @ 230 volts
1 ½ Hp draws 10 amps @ 230 volts
2 Hp draws 12 amps @ 230 volts
3 Hp draws 17 amps @ 230 volts
5 Hp draws 28 amps @ 230 volts

Got this information here. (http://www.johndeerelandscapes.com/_Products/Irrg_cost.asp)


I run a 2 HP, 2 stage pump on my personal system and when I max it out at 20GPM or so, it draws a little over 10 Amps. A normal zone kicking around 15 GPM runs around 7-8 Amps. A 5 HP pump is huge for a resi system, so don't use those figures. Hope that helps on your figuring electricity costs.



The PVB is not a problem. Once you remove it and relace it with an RPZ, it will make a lovely paperweight.

Why will you remove it? You will, because the nice people in your local and state government will want it that way, because no one who has city-fed sprinklers ever wants to give up access to that source, even if you spent a few thousand on a well. Your local officials will never allow any interconnection between city water and ground water unless an RPZ protects the city water. And frankly, it makes sense to have a backup in the event the pump goes bad. So figure in the RPZ expense and pressure loss.

He would not lose 10 PSI when running off the well, just on the city side. Would most likely have better pressure on the well side than what he has now on the city POC. A test will tell.

ksJoe
06-07-2009, 12:46 AM
Thanks! Thats the kind of info I was looking for.

BTW, I played around with a spreadsheet a bit and figured out that if I run an extra 20,000 gallons down the drain in the winter, I'll save a net of around $100 in the summer (after paying the extra $37 in the winter). The average winter usage is Dec-Mar, so if I turn the sprinklers on mid March for a thorough watering, that would help too.

TRILAWNCARE
06-07-2009, 12:59 AM
Thanks! Thats the kind of info I was looking for.

BTW, I played around with a spreadsheet a bit and figured out that if I run an extra 20,000 gallons down the drain in the winter, I'll save a net of around $100 in the summer (after paying the extra $37 in the winter). The average winter usage is Dec-Mar, so if I turn the sprinklers on mid March for a thorough watering, that would help too.

Shhhhhh. Wasting water is taken very seriously around here. You might have just opened yourself up for a salvo of rounds from some of the guys here.

AI Inc
06-07-2009, 07:09 AM
I was trying to spare you from doing the calculations.... I'm an engineer, I can do the math I just need to know the inputs :)

Electricity is around $0.083 / per KWH ( I think thats about right... they don't print it on the bill, so I subtracted off what looked like flat rate stuff and calculated it).

The water rate structure is tiered. The low rate (up to 110% of average winter usage) is $0.00187 / gallon. The next tier (up to 310% of winter usage) is $0.00712 / gallon. I don't know what the third tier is, because we haven't hit it yet. It occurs to me... despite all their city's promotion of water conservation, I could save a tone of money if I wasted a lot of water during the winter. If I don't get a well, I think I'll fire up the sprinkler system on a warm winter day and run it nonstop for couple days (then blow it out again).

We have a sprinkler system. Its currently on city water. I think there is room to drill a well about 25' from where the PVB is located. It ought to be a pretty easy install.

The thing I don't know how to estimate is how much electricity it takes.

Lets look at this from a simple point of view . Did you use the system last summer? What was your water bill for last summer?

AI Inc
06-07-2009, 07:12 AM
The PVB is not a problem. Once you remove it and relace it with an RPZ, it will make a lovely paperweight.

Why will you remove it? You will, because the nice people in your local and state government will want it that way, because no one who has city-fed sprinklers ever wants to give up access to that source, even if you spent a few thousand on a well. Your local officials will never allow any interconnection between city water and ground water unless an RPZ protects the city water. And frankly, it makes sense to have a backup in the event the pump goes bad. So figure in the RPZ expense and pressure loss.

No need to hook back up to the house . Cut the pipe , throw in a spigot on a riser so it can be found easy if need be.
Even with a rpz , tieing into both sources is ilegal in a lot of places, possibly his.

AI Inc
06-07-2009, 07:15 AM
In these parts a poit well ( driven well ) runs between $2k and $2500 installed with pump.
It will increase the maitanance costs on the irrigation system by about 35%.
If you pay less then $300 a season for water on the lawn , dont even think about it.

Wet_Boots
06-07-2009, 08:47 AM
For a property of less than a half-acre, chasing ground water doesn't make much sense, unless you can easily install a shallow well point yourself. You need friendly soil for that.

hoskm01
06-07-2009, 08:56 AM
Thanks! Thats the kind of info I was looking for.

BTW, I played around with a spreadsheet a bit and figured out that if I run an extra 20,000 gallons down the drain in the winter, I'll save a net of around $100 in the summer (after paying the extra $37 in the winter). The average winter usage is Dec-Mar, so if I turn the sprinklers on mid March for a thorough watering, that would help too.
At least sell it to someone for winter watering, or get a tank and save it. It may be cheaper for you in the long run (annually) but why just blatantly throw it down the drain?

ksJoe
06-07-2009, 09:48 AM
Re: in cost last year...
Yes, last year was our first year in this house, but it was abnormally wet the first half of the summer. (wettest in several decades). I looked at last years usage, and guessed what a more typical usage would be. Thats about $330 more than the winter usage. (using 20k extra would cost about $37 and save $137, net $100).

Re: leaving it connected to city water.
Even if it is legal here, I don't think I want to. My motivation here is cost savings. I'm required to have the PVB checked annually ($50). If the well breaks down once every 10 years, then for the $500 savings from not having the PVB checked, I can use a hose & sprinkler once while I'm fixing the well.

Re: wasting the water.
Yeah, I'll stop short of letting it run down the street :)
I'm thinking: wash the cars more in the winter (thoroughly rinsing the salt off underneath).
Any warm day when the ground looks dry, water with a sprinkler.
etc.

Wet_Boots
06-07-2009, 10:01 AM
I always have to emphasize the RPZ aspect of ground water conversions, because it usually never enters into the mind of the homeowners that they can be losing some of the convenience they've enjoyed. Plus, a lot of systems don't have enough surplus pressure to allow an RPZ.

Kiril
06-07-2009, 10:43 AM
Re: wasting the water.
Yeah, I'll stop short of letting it run down the street :)
I'm thinking: wash the cars more in the winter (thoroughly rinsing the salt off underneath).
Any warm day when the ground looks dry, water with a sprinkler.
etc.

Go to town if you are doing that with non-potable water, but wasting potable water is just plain irresponsible.

Tony Clifton
06-07-2009, 11:58 AM
We have to be very responsible using ground water as well.
I don't know how populated your area is.
I do know that it takes 20+ years (Iwant to say 50+ but can't remember) for the water to make its way back down to the aquifer.

Kiril
06-07-2009, 12:09 PM
I do know that it takes 20+ years (Iwant to say 50+ but can't remember) for the water to make its way back down to the aquifer.

The length of time is highly variable. You can't put a number on it. Each aquifer has it's own recharge rate.

Tony Clifton
06-07-2009, 01:08 PM
Very true, I should have been more clear.
I don't know what most aquifers are nor do I know a minimal or avg.
I do know that a lot of people think it happens way quicker than it does.

ksJoe
06-08-2009, 12:06 AM
I finally got 5 minutes to run the numbers (busy day)

Here's my calculations using the numbers of 15 GPM using 8 amps @ 230 volts.
8*230 = 1840 watts, or 1.84 KWH per hour.
15 GPM * 60 minutes = 900 gallons per hour.
900 / 1.84 = 489.13 gallons per KWH.

My estimation of irrigation water usage (over household winter consumption) is 49,000 gallons for the whole year.
49,000 / 489.13 = 100.18 KWH per year for irrigation pump power.

100.18 KWH per year * $0.083 per KWH = $8.31 per year for electricity.

At roughly 3% of the cost of city water, for my estimation purposes,I consider that "free".
So with the well, I'd have some extra maintence cost, and free water.

I took the kids on a walk this afternoon and talked to a guy installing a sprinkler system. He doesn't drill wells, but he told me who does. He also said around here they're about 70', and the current price is around $15 per foot. I assume since he gave a per foot cost, thats the cost of drilling and the casing. So I suspect by the time we get a pump, if I can do some of the prep work myself (running the water line, power, etc), it might run $1500.

So... the well could come in at the low end of what I was thinking, and the operating cost is lower than I thought it would be.

I greatly appreciate all the input. I know there's a lot of variables and estimation in the numbers. But with the cost running 3% of city water, even if we were off by half I'd be very happy.


Another question - it was mentioned the well raises maintenance by 30%... Can you give a general idea of what that involves? I'm a DIY kind of guy. I even changed the timing belt on my wife's quad cam car :) Basically, I'll do anything I can find instructions for. If it was malfunctioning and I couldn't diagnose it, of course I'd call someone. But other than that I'd do it myself. So I'm curious what might come up in say... 5 years, 10 years, 15 years?

Thanks guys!
And hopefully google will find this thread next time someone is trying to do some ballpark estimating because I sure couldn't find one with google.

-Joe

Wet_Boots
06-08-2009, 04:50 AM
By no means assume 15 gpm on a well before it's drilled. You may get less, and have to change your sprinkler system to match. You will also have to install a 100 mesh strainer on the well outlet to protect the system from particles in the water. Clean up the water enough, and your system shouldn't wear out any quicker.

AI Inc
06-08-2009, 05:16 AM
I finally got 5 minutes to run the numbers (busy day)

Here's my calculations using the numbers of 15 GPM using 8 amps @ 230 volts.
8*230 = 1840 watts, or 1.84 KWH per hour.
15 GPM * 60 minutes = 900 gallons per hour.
900 / 1.84 = 489.13 gallons per KWH.

My estimation of irrigation water usage (over household winter consumption) is 49,000 gallons for the whole year.
49,000 / 489.13 = 100.18 KWH per year for irrigation pump power.

100.18 KWH per year * $0.083 per KWH = $8.31 per year for electricity.

At roughly 3% of the cost of city water, for my estimation purposes,I consider that "free".
So with the well, I'd have some extra maintence cost, and free water.

I took the kids on a walk this afternoon and talked to a guy installing a sprinkler system. He doesn't drill wells, but he told me who does. He also said around here they're about 70', and the current price is around $15 per foot. I assume since he gave a per foot cost, thats the cost of drilling and the casing. So I suspect by the time we get a pump, if I can do some of the prep work myself (running the water line, power, etc), it might run $1500.

So... the well could come in at the low end of what I was thinking, and the operating cost is lower than I thought it would be.

I greatly appreciate all the input. I know there's a lot of variables and estimation in the numbers. But with the cost running 3% of city water, even if we were off by half I'd be very happy.


Another question - it was mentioned the well raises maintenance by 30%... Can you give a general idea of what that involves? I'm a DIY kind of guy. I even changed the timing belt on my wife's quad cam car :) Basically, I'll do anything I can find instructions for. If it was malfunctioning and I couldn't diagnose it, of course I'd call someone. But other than that I'd do it myself. So I'm curious what might come up in say... 5 years, 10 years, 15 years?

Thanks guys!
And hopefully google will find this thread next time someone is trying to do some ballpark estimating because I sure couldn't find one with google.

-Joe

For a drilled well , your #s are way off. No one will do a well with pump for $1500. Like everything , well guys will have a minimum , even if they hit water at 45 ft.

Wet_Boots
06-08-2009, 05:26 AM
Heck, $1500 wouldn't even get a pro to replace a pump around these parts, although that often involves extending old below-grade casings.

unit28
06-08-2009, 07:07 AM
ok, good luck

ksJoe
08-12-2009, 02:02 PM
Finally got around to calling a driller to get a real #.

They drilled one of our neighbors wells. They're guessing 70 - 90' at $15/foot. Plus $725 for a 1hp pump installed, plus $25 for a state recording fee. Thats for drilling with an 11" bit, 5" casing. 3 year pump warranty, "forever" warranty that the well won't pump sand.

Total pretax cost is:
1950 if they stop at 80'
2180 if they stop at 90'

That's with me having water, power connections run to the drill site, where all they do back up and drill.

Waterit
08-12-2009, 05:07 PM
Even with a rpz , tieing into both sources is ilegal in a lot of places, possibly his.

It's illegal anywhere that has adopted International Plumbing Code. And foolish everywhere else.

And interestingly enough, it's not so much the tying to citywater part - it's the tying any other source to a well part.

ksJoe
08-12-2009, 05:11 PM
It's illegal anywhere that has adopted International Plumbing Code. And foolish everywhere else.

And interestingly enough, it's not so much the tying to citywater part - it's the tying any other source to a well part.

I'm curious why? cross-contamination?

AI Inc
08-12-2009, 05:11 PM
I think I just found a thread from 1913. Boots and Mike were arguing.

Waterit
08-12-2009, 05:16 PM
I'm curious why? cross-contamination?

That's correct.

AI, I wasn't going anywhere near the Boots/Leary backflow debate - this came up last week when we found a well and a non-potable source tied together. Was told by the local inspection authorities that tying ANYTHING to a well is a Bozo no-no, no matter what form of backflow is used.

Dripit good
08-12-2009, 05:19 PM
I think I just found a thread from 1913. Boots and Mike were arguing.

Mr. Leary way back when aluminum piping overtook wood pipe as state of the art.
158341

AI Inc
08-12-2009, 05:21 PM
That's correct.

AI, I wasn't going anywhere near the Boots/Leary backflow debate - this came up last week when we found a well and a non-potable source tied together. Was told by the local inspection authorities that tying ANYTHING to a well is a Bozo no-no, no matter what form of backflow is used.

Thats how I found out. Inspector said , just dont do it. Cut your main and put a spigot there and Ill sign off on it right now. Otherwise , its a fail.

ksJoe
08-12-2009, 05:32 PM
Another question - if the well pump was needing repaired...

Would it be legal to isolate the well supply with a shutoff valve, then temporarily connect a garden hose from the municipal supply spigot to the winterization sprinkler system's blowout connector?

I don't see how that would have any more risk of contamination than other uses of a garden hose. But I suspect it's still illegal.

Dripit good
08-12-2009, 05:38 PM
Have any of you well guys heard of people dropping chlorine tablets and/or bleach in their wells to remove some of the funk associated with well water?

Any research out there to know how detrimental this can be for the aquifer?

Of course a water conditioner would be preferred. I recently found out a couple of hillbillies near my place up north are doing this.

ksJoe
08-12-2009, 05:41 PM
Have any of you well guys heard of people dropping chlorine tablets and/or bleach in their wells to remove some of the funk associated with well water?

Any research out there to know how detrimental this can be for the aquifer?

Of course a water conditioner would be preferred. I recently found out a couple of hillbillies near my place up north are doing this.

I was reading about that a couple hours ago.

http://www.wichita.gov/CityOffices/Environmental/WaterQuality/WaterWells/drilling.htm


After constructing my well, do I need to disinfect it? How?

Yes, new wells must always be disinfected and tested prior to using the water from the well for personal use.

New construction often requires the well to be disinfected more than once; this is usually a result of the condition of the water supply system (piping) and not the water source. Any time you make any corrections, i.e., replace the pump or water supply pipes, be sure to disinfect the well according to the procedures listed below.


Water Well Disinfection Procedure

1.

Temporarily remove or bypass any carbon filter or reverse osmosis equipment, then unseal the well and pour in an appropriate amount of disinfectant (usually one gallon of laundry bleach mixed with four gallons of water for an existing home or four gallons of bleach for new home construction). Caution: a very strong chlorine solution may damage the rubber air-water separator in the pressure tank and/or may cause an accelerated breakdown of the resin beads in a water softener.
2.

For more effective mixing of chlorine with the water column in the well, run a garden hose to the well and circulate the water into the well for a minimum of 15 minutes, then remove the hose and reseal the well.
3.

Starting with the tap or outlet closest to the well, run the water until you can detect the chlorine (a chlorine test kit is the best way to verify the presence of chlorine). Once you smell chlorine or have tested for and found the presence of chlorine, turn off the tap or outlet; then proceed to the next one. You need to get the chlorine solution throughout the entire water supply system, so don't forget to flush the toilets and run water through your washing machines (clothes and dish), refrigerator icemaker, kitchen spray hose, outside taps, etcetera. Note: any lines that are capped off so that water can not flow through them must be eliminated by adding an outlet or by removing the line from the system.
4.

If after running the water for a few minutes, you are unable to detect any chlorine at a tap or outlet; repeat steps 1, 2 and 3.
5.

Once you are able to detect chlorine at all the water supply taps or outlets, discontinue pumping and allow the chlorine to remain in the system for a minimum of twelve (12) hours.
6.

Following the 12-hour period, run the taps and outlets until you are unable to detect any chlorine (this can take many hours). You may wish to use the chlorine test kit to verify that the chlorine is gone. Caution: if your property is connected to a septic tank-lateral system, flush most of the water out to the yard or a ditch. Do not allow more than about 100 gallons to drain to the septic tank.
7.

After you have finished flushing the system of chlorine, contact the Environmental Services Department to schedule an appointment to sample your water. To provide an accurate sample, the water can only be sampled 72 hours or more after the chlorine has been flushed from the system.

New construction often requires the well to be disinfected more than once; this is usually a result of the condition of the water supply system (piping) and not the water source (well). Any time you make a modification or repair to the system (such as adding or replacing lines, pulling the pump or suction line, etc.) be sure to disinfect the system according to the procedures listed above. Also, when replacing filter cartridges, be careful not to touch the new filter with anything that has not been disinfected, including your hands.

For emergency drinking water use bottled water, water from a safe source or water from your well which has been treated. Drinking water which is bacteriologically contaminated can be treated for use in an emergency by adding four (4) drops of household bleach to a gallon of water. Let the treated water stand for ten (10) minutes before using to allow the chlorine to act on the bacteria. Water treated in this manner will have a strong chlorine odor or taste, which will dissipate as it sits. Contaminated water can also be disinfected by boiling the water for fifteen (15) minutes. If the water has a lot of sediment, filter it through a coffee filter or clean towel. The treated water should be sealed and refrigerated when not being used.

Waterit
08-12-2009, 06:04 PM
Have any of you well guys heard of people dropping chlorine tablets and/or bleach in their wells to remove some of the funk associated with well water?

Any research out there to know how detrimental this can be for the aquifer?

Of course a water conditioner would be preferred. I recently found out a couple of hillbillies near my place up north are doing this.

People here do that (or muriatic acid!!!) all the time. EPA would have a field day if they caught someone.

There are several EPA-approved products on the market for well treatment. Ewing carries 2 I know of.

Dripit good
08-12-2009, 06:05 PM
I suppose it makes sense to disinfect new piping and such........but should I be concerned with a neighbor putting bleach in his well. I'm sure my water is mingling with his underground.

I know there are good bacteria and bad bacteria living in well water. Does the bleach kill the good bacteria?

Dripit good
08-12-2009, 06:07 PM
People here do that (or muriatic acid!!!) all the time. EPA would have a field day if they caught someone.

There are several EPA-approved products on the market for well treatment. Ewing carries 2 I know of.

Muriatic acid!!!!!

hoskm01
08-12-2009, 06:08 PM
I suppose it makes sense to disinfect new piping and such........but should I be concerned with a neighbor putting bleach in his well. I'm sure my water is mingling with his underground.

I know there are good bacteria and bad bacteria living in well water. Does the bleach kill the good bacteria?
Perhaps the aquifers are smaller there, but you are probably mingling with 10,000 other wells in the vicinity too!

Chlorine or acid straight down a well? SCARy.

regularguy
08-12-2009, 09:18 PM
Perhaps the aquifers are smaller there, but you are probably mingling with 10,000 other wells in the vicinity too!

Chlorine or acid straight down a well? SCARy.

In the great state of Illinois it is part of the code that chlorine be dumped down the well. The text below is taken directly from the Illinois Well Code.

Disinfection. Only after the well has been effectively cleaned of all remaining drilling mud and drill cuttings can the well be disinfected. The well contractor shall be responsible for properly disinfecting the well upon completion. Disinfection shall also be done after the pump installation is completed. Sufficient chlorine shall be introduced to give a dosage of 100 parts per million to the water in the well.

1) Drilled Wells. The disinfection of drilled wells shall be accomplished in accordance with the following:










DIAM. WELL
GALLONS
AMOUNT OF DISINFECTANT REQUIRED FOR





1 cup = 8 oz. measuring cup

(2 cups = 1pt.; 4 cups = 1 qt.)

1 oz. = 1 heaping tablespoon granules

(16 oz. = 1 lb.)






A) Determine the amount of water in the well by multiplying the gallons per foot by the number of feet of water in the well.

B) For each 100 gallons of water in the well, use the amount of chlorine liquid or compound given in the above tables. Mix this total amount in about 10 gallons of water. If dry granules or tablets are used, they may be added directly to drilled wells.

C) Pour this solution into the top of the well before the seal is installed.

hoskm01
08-12-2009, 09:28 PM
I remain scared, but reassured to some extent.

bigbuck1975
08-13-2009, 10:11 PM
I must be in the most screwed up state in the world or are you guys not up on your states regs?

In Michigan you can have two different types of wells, potable, and non potable. All wells are regulated by the local health department. Each well has its own specific requirements. You can use the non potable for irrigation purposes.

As far as muriatic acid and bleach, this is a really common technique used here.

Muriatic acid is utilized to rehabilitate wells used in irrigation and pumping water at sites such as contaminated sites. We have such iron fouling issues, the acid is used to clean the screen and formation. The solution is surged in and out of the formation. I believe the final water pumped out of the well is containerized and properly disposed.

Shock chlorination of bleach is a common practice on residential wells that have issues with Bacteria. The well is chlorinated, allowed to sit, and the solution pumped out. Testing of the water then occurs to ensure bacteria issues are gone.

M L Thomas
08-14-2009, 09:03 AM
Chlorination of wells - I do it to my well that is used for potable domestic water in our house and is also used for irrigation. It is common and recommended practice anytime a pump is installed in a well for potable use. We dump 2 gallons of bleach into well after we install pump. The pipe, pump and wire may have contamination on them. Especially after laying in the yard prior to installation.

I am interested in why AI Inc thinks the maintenance costs will increase by 35%? In my last house I installed a 1HP submersible pump in 1992 for about 3/4 acre of irrigation, it is an irrigation only well, and the original pump is still functioning. The only maintenance done is rotor replacement due to normal wear and tear and we winterize it for the 2 nd owner since I sold it.

My current house I have been in for 11 years. I have pulled 1 1/2 Hp motor & pump twice. 1st time 3 years ago motor as dead. 2nd time last year we had a wire run through. Replaced pipe and wire and reset the pump. I experience no additional maintenance on my system that waters 2 acres.

In my yard I have:
22 Zones
Toro 640's
Toro 2001's
Toro 630's
Toro S600's
Toro V1550
Toro EZAdjust
Toro 570's 4 & 12"
Waethermatic T3's
Hunter I40's
Hunter I-20's
Rain Bird 5004
Rain Bird 6504
Rain Bird 8005
Rain Bird 1804's


Toro 250 Valves
Hunter PGV Valves
Rain Bird DV valves

I do nothing more than routine maintenance, replace 3-5 rotors a year on average.

The other well sytems - 25 or so- we service experience the same maintenance, nothing more than the municipal water systems.

Tom Tom
08-14-2009, 09:09 AM
You could be Toro's biggest customer. :laugh:

M L Thomas
08-14-2009, 09:15 AM
10 yrs ago I was but they broke me of that habit

Wet_Boots
08-14-2009, 10:18 AM
How old are the EZ-Adjust heads? They working well?

M L Thomas
08-14-2009, 10:38 AM
3-4 yrs I think - I put 4 or 5 in my yard out of a case I was given. The rest were put on a project.

I do not think we have had a problem with them, but as I have posted before they are slow to adjust because you can't really speed up the rotation back and forth. And the adjustment is not as accurate as they say.

Wet_Boots
08-14-2009, 10:41 AM
Oh, so they're something like the TR-50XP head, with no freewheeling? I have a continuing interest in heads with adjustable trajectory.

M L Thomas
08-14-2009, 12:15 PM
My mistake they are TR50's