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View Full Version : Is it too late to grow grass this spring?


snuddenstang
06-09-2009, 10:32 PM
I am in north Jersey. I graded my backyard around 15000 sq ft. I put down Scotts Sun and Shade with Thermal Blue along with Scotts starter fert with crabgrass preventer. I just loosened up the top 2 inches on the top soil that I put down and back racked the seed and fert in. No other topdressing. I did this 3 1/2 weeks ago, the lawn is very spotty and still is not long enough for the first cut. I have set up 7 sprinklers around the yard and water in the morning and the evening. I overseeded again 8 days ago then rolled that seed lightly. I did not work the seed in though as I did not want to kill the new grass that was growing from the first round of seed. At this point the lawn is ok in some areas but for the most part it is spotty and bare in many areas. Is there anything I can do to get a decent lawn in this summer and? I will attempt to slice seed in the fall also. I suspect the starter fert with the crabgrass preventer may have halted some see germination along with a few very hot days that may have killed some seed. Is it worth trying to overseed again? I am afraid if I keep watering at night to get the new seed to germinate will cause some type of disease to the new grass.

Smallaxe
06-09-2009, 11:39 PM
... I suspect the starter fert with the crabgrass preventer ....

Ya think!!! :laugh:

newtostone
06-10-2009, 12:32 AM
I think you have the right idea. I would just let it be for the summer, Come mid September slit seed it in two different directions and use starter fert and you'll be gold. Come spring youll have a perfect lawn and moving on.

Smallaxe
06-10-2009, 12:39 AM
I think you have the right idea. I would just let it be for the summer, Come mid September slit seed it in two different directions and use starter fert and you'll be gold. Come spring youll have a perfect lawn and moving on.

If you are going to let it go for this summer then be sure to keep everything killed as it germinates. Either by tilling, roundup or "Crabgrass Preventer" , but the bottom line is - Nothing grows this fall , except your seed...

Turboguy
06-10-2009, 06:05 AM
What small ax was saying is that the crab grass preventer was probably your problem. Crab grass is an annual weed. The way most people get rid of it is a crab grass preventer which keeps the crab grass seed from germinating. One of the side problems with it is that it will also inhibit the germination of grass seed. I would suggest just putting up with it for now and dealing with it in the fall.

snuddenstang
06-10-2009, 07:23 AM
why do they sell starter fert with crabgrass preventer in it if it affects the germination of the grass seed? The bag says it is specifically made for new seed and preventing crabgrass also.

Rtom45
06-10-2009, 07:57 AM
This has been a tough year for seed germination in our area. Some very warm days and some record setting low temperatures at other times. And the month of May was pretty dry here also. Part of the problem you're having with germination, even with the overseeding is the residual effect of the crabgrass control. You can weaken that barrier by raking with a hard rake, several times. You can still reseed this year if you're not patient enough to wait til fall (I'm one of those kind of people). You'll just have to be careful with your watering - constant damp soil for the seed, but not so wet that you have mud. And no weed control of any kind. If you haven't fertilized since the first time, you can use some starter fertilizer.

Smallaxe
06-11-2009, 09:01 AM
why do they sell starter fert with crabgrass preventer in it if it affects the germination of the grass seed? The bag says it is specifically made for new seed and preventing crabgrass also.

They probably plan for you to put the fert. down after the grass comes up. Or they believe that it forms an invisible barrier than doesn't affect grass seed if you plant after, by scratching in the seed and topdressing.

Or maybe it is Sideron, Tupersan that is in the mix, is actually does not affect grass seed germination, supposedly... but it is the only one that does not affect CG and turf grasses equally.

Topdressing with compost is the best starter fertilizer in the world. Water is what young seedlings need more than anything, and unless your soil is awfully infertile you should avoid N in particular.

Young plants establish root systems more than anything, forcing green growth with N is foolish at this point. It is a radical idea, but makes perfect sense... :)

bigslick7878
06-12-2009, 01:08 AM
Scotts starter with crabgrass control does not affect new seed.

Pics or it didn't happen.

Smallaxe
06-12-2009, 07:48 AM
Scotts starter with crabgrass control does not affect new seed.. ....

What is the AI, and how does it work?
The mythology grows.

The invisible barrier only lets through the things we want. :laugh:

bigslick7878
06-12-2009, 12:56 PM
What is the AI, and how does it work?
The mythology grows.

The invisible barrier only lets through the things we want. :laugh:

There are other products as well which have crabgrass preventer in a starter fertilizer.

Do they work as claimed? Don't know,don't care because I have never and will never put down a premergent crabgrass control product.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Smallaxe
06-12-2009, 05:13 PM
There are other products as well which have crabgrass preventer in a starter fertilizer.

Do they work as claimed? Don't know,don't care because I have never and will never put down a premergent crabgrass control product.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Why did you say that it, would not affect grass seed???

bigslick7878
06-12-2009, 07:54 PM
Why did you say that it, would not affect grass seed???

Because that's what it says on the Scotts website and on the back of the package.

Do you think they would put something in a STARTER fertilizer that prevented grass seed from germinating???:confused:

Smallaxe
06-13-2009, 08:54 AM
Because that's what it says on the Scotts website and on the back of the package.

Do you think they would put something in a STARTER fertilizer that prevented grass seed from germinating???:confused:

That is where most of the LCO's learned about the "invisible barrier" as well - the back of a Scott's bag... Starter fert. doesn't inhibit anything - CG 'preventer' after the seed has germinated is not a big problem either.

As far as I know pre-m's all work the same way, with Tupersan being more selective. If there are other MOs then it would be interesting to know, because that would give, LCOs, another strategy to work with.
But the invisible barrier MO is a lot of HOOEY invented by advertisers, to give an image to the consumer!!! Roundup is using the same Gimmick on TV now.

Professionals should know more than the general public about the chemicals that they use... What is AI and how does it work?

bigslick7878
06-13-2009, 01:58 PM
That is where most of the LCO's learned about the "invisible barrier" as well - the back of a Scott's bag... Starter fert. doesn't inhibit anything - CG 'preventer' after the seed has germinated is not a big problem either.

As far as I know pre-m's all work the same way, with Tupersan being more selective. If there are other MOs then it would be interesting to know, because that would give, LCOs, another strategy to work with.
But the invisible barrier MO is a lot of HOOEY invented by advertisers, to give an image to the consumer!!! Roundup is using the same Gimmick on TV now.

Professionals should know more than the general public about the chemicals that they use... What is AI and how does it work?

So you think that a multi billion dollar company like Scotts developed a fraudulent product,and marketed it to the masses as something it wasn't.

"As far as you know" because you obviously are an expert in the field of developing premergent controls and exactly how they work,and this was all done in conjunction with a grand advertising conspiracy to mislead their customers.

Got it.

Smallaxe
06-14-2009, 08:29 AM
So you think that a multi billion dollar company like Scotts developed a fraudulent product,and marketed it to the masses as something it wasn't.

"As far as you know" because you obviously are an expert in the field of developing premergent controls and exactly how they work,and this was all done in conjunction with a grand advertising conspiracy to mislead their customers.

Got it.

No one said 'fraudulent'. Advertizing analogies are not legally binding.
You should define the meaning of "barrier" :laugh: For a court of law.

No one said 'expert'.
I did research the AI of pre-Ms and learned something about them.

What have you researched?, and others researched?, and what can you tell us other than the imagery on the back of the bag?
Do you have some useful information about pre-m other than this mysterious 'barrier' that no one seems to be able to explain. I have been trying for sometime now to be proven wrong on this barrier thing but so far no one has the workings analysed.

Not trying to be snotty, just want a real answer , as a basis for discussion. :)

phasthound
06-14-2009, 06:04 PM
So you think that a multi billion dollar company like Scotts developed a fraudulent product,and marketed it to the masses as something it wasn't.

All multi billion dollar companies stretch the truth to the nth degree. What about this is news to you?

snuddenstang
06-20-2009, 06:19 PM
The grass has come in very good. It looks full and green. I hit it with a second application of starter fert without the crabgrass preventer and 5 days later the grass looks great. I only have a few bald areas where the rain has puddled. We have had sooo much rain here this month. I would have to say that the Scott's Fert with crabgrass preventer did not prevent the grass from growing. I think the fact that I used Scotts Sun and Shade with Thermal Blue may have taken longer to germinate than I am used too. I am going to overseed again this week if the rain stops long enough and fill the few low spots were the water is gathering with some compost.

bigslick7878
06-20-2009, 07:44 PM
The grass has come in very good. It looks full and green. I hit it with a second application of starter fert without the crabgrass preventer and 5 days later the grass looks great. I only have a few bald areas where the rain has puddled. We have had sooo much rain here this month. I would have to say that the Scott's Fert with crabgrass preventer did not prevent the grass from growing. I think the fact that I used Scotts Sun and Shade with Thermal Blue may have taken longer to germinate than I am used too. I am going to overseed again this week if the rain stops long enough and fill the few low spots were the water is gathering with some compost.

Like I said,they arent going to market a product that doesn't work because of the crabgrass preventer.They do countless tests on anything they put out.

Good to hear its coming in nice.

And yes,if you planted seed this spring you hit the "weather jackpot" here in the northeast because it has rained nonstop for months.

KGB takes forever to germinate that could have been the issue.

Smallaxe
06-21-2009, 06:27 AM
The grass has come in very good. It looks full and green. I hit it with a second application of starter fert without the crabgrass preventer and 5 days later the grass looks great. I only have a few bald areas where the rain has puddled. We have had sooo much rain here this month. I would have to say that the Scott's Fert with crabgrass preventer did not prevent the grass from growing. I think the fact that I used Scotts Sun and Shade with Thermal Blue may have taken longer to germinate than I am used too. I am going to overseed again this week if the rain stops long enough and fill the few low spots were the water is gathering with some compost.

It is still early for Crabgrass here. Let us know if it appears in your new area.

snuddenstang
07-02-2009, 07:43 AM
Is there anything else I can put down now to stop the crabgrass from growing? I am not to confident that the premergent in the starter fert is going to do the trick.

bigslick7878
07-02-2009, 07:09 PM
Is there anything else I can put down now to stop the crabgrass from growing? I am not to confident that the premergent in the starter fert is going to do the trick.

Cross that bridge when you come to it.

There are products that can eliminate crabgrass in its early stages if it doesnt work.

No sense in putting something on the lawn that it"might" need....or might not need.

I am basically in the same area as you and the crabgrass has just started to come up...if you were going to have a problem with it you would probably know it by now.

Just keep checking it and if you see any then you can deal with it.

Barefoot James
07-05-2009, 11:11 PM
Tupersan ..............already mentioned above.

dcgreenspro
07-06-2009, 11:36 AM
if you germination is sufficient, your crabgrass germination rates should be very little if any. I see no point in trying to control a weed that will be dead in a few months and then can be used to direct you where your germination was weak. this is a main reason for not renovating and overseeding in the spring. Just pop it again in the fall and seed it again. you should be good to go. Just keep the grass a little longer this summer and vary your cutting times and frequency according to the weather.