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View Full Version : Scag TT 61" vs. Hustler SuperZ 66"


johnnybravo8802
06-11-2009, 12:09 AM
I finally decided to try out a Hustler Super Z and see what all the fuss is about. The one I demoed had 200+ hours on it and it had a 66" deck with a 30 Kohler. My Scag has a 61" velocity deck with the 29 DFI Kawi and has 200+ hours on it. I'm going to give my opinion but they are nothing more than my opinion and not someone leaning toward a certain brand.


First impression:The Hustler is blistering fast just like everybody said it was and will run circles around the Scag as far as cutting. Like Tacoma pointed out, the Scag is severely dampened and takes some getting used to. The Hustler has the typical sensitive levers like the Exmark's I had and this is what I prefer. You really have to push the TT down to get it rolling.

Cut quality: I had heard a lot of negative comments about the poor cut on the Hustler but I didn't notice. Both machines had brand new blades. I'd consider the Hustler to have an average cut. I mowed my rough cut at 2.75" and my fescue at 3.75" and it did fine. However, the velocity is second to none. It just seems to have better lift and continues to cut good even when the blades are dull. The 61" deck has a lot of rollers on it also and it automatically leaves a nice stripe that my Exmark's never did. Also, the Scag has a spring assisted lift that makes floating the deck a breeze and I use it constantly. I was killing myself trying to do this with the Hustler. On tedious turf, this is very important.

Ride: The Hustler didn't have the flex forks but had a standard suspension seat and it rode ok. It's funny but the two mowers had the exact same seat but they are night and day as far as ride. The Scag is like sitting in a lazy boy and rides really good while suspending you up and down with the terrain. It also has a lower COG and you feel like you are sitting in the machine and feel secure. I felt like I was sitting on top of the Hustler out in the open.

Hillside stability: NO CONTEST!!!!!!!!!The Scag walks the dog in this category. It has a lower COG and sticks to hills like glue-literally. I ride some pretty nasty ditches and hills and the Scag rarely slips a tire. The Hustler is actually wider but I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it. I was spinning tires each time I'd turn it and it wasn't from speed. If you pointed it down on the slightest incline, it started sliding and felt like it had no weight on the rear. However, when you'd take off, it wanted to wheelie. The balance of the machine was very strange. Even the Exmarks' I had held hills much better than the Hustler. I was very surprised with this fact.

Quality: NO CONTEST!!! I've had two Hustlers in the past and am used to a very quality machine but didn't see it with the Super Z. This really disappointed me. The front casters had one bolt holding them on and when I'd get up speed on the asphalt, the wheels wobbled so bad, it was dangerous. When I returned it, I found one bolt really loose and I've never run into this before on other machines. The sight lens on one of the fuel tanks was already buckled in and with only 200 hours. The veneer around the gauges was already peeling up. My Scag looks like new. One of the rollers on the deck was falling off and bent. The metal it was attached to was only one sided and the Scag is two sided-a lot more metal.The front wheels are air filled on the Hustler and the Scag has no flat fronts as standard. The Scag is doubled framed in a lot of places and just plain has more metal and is much better built-you're getting more machine and something that should last longer in my opinion.Everything on the Scag just feels beefier and the Scag feels like a cadillac compared to the Hustler.

Engine: I didn't give this much thought because I wanted to compare mowers. However, I think the Kohler had better power over the Kawi, even though I'm not a Kohler fan. The choking and lack of LC does seem old school to me at this point, I admit.

Conclusion: The Super Z is a fast machine and I would still buy one despite it's shortcomings. It cuts a lot of grass in a hurry and that's what I do-it would be an asset to me in that regard. It seems to be a better fit for rough cut though-schools, churches, etc. That's Hustler's first intentions-rough cut-industrial mowing but I don't think that's where they had intended to be in 2009. They still have some refining to do but they are a great company and I have confidence in them-they are very pro active compared to other companies. If I was wanting to cut a lot of grass fast, I'd get the Hustler off the trailer. However, if I was wanting a better quality cut and had some tedious mowing to do, I'd get the Scag off the trailer. If I wanted to mow embankments, I'd get the Scag off-no questions asked. There it is in a nutshell, I hope this helps someone.

johnnybravo8802
06-11-2009, 06:08 PM
Bump, bump.

johnnybravo8802
06-11-2009, 06:09 PM
I need some more bumps.

davis45
06-11-2009, 06:23 PM
Maybe I looked past it but I didn't notice. Which one discharges clippings better? As in less clumping or visable grass left on the lawn.

johnnybravo8802
06-11-2009, 06:32 PM
Maybe I looked past it but I didn't notice. Which one discharges clippings better? As in less clumping or visable grass left on the lawn.
The Scag is the master at that. It excels in tall grass and has a wider opening than any brand out there. Look at Tacoma's thread-he has pictures.

mtchockey30
06-11-2009, 06:52 PM
good info!

supercuts
06-11-2009, 08:03 PM
i bought my first non-bobcat mower this spring, a Turf Tiger. i think its a quality machine, but im not overly sold on them. i think my bobcat cuts better and holds hills just the same. my biggest complaint with the TT is the length and weight. its one big bad mower. it does feel like a big soft bulky dump truck though compared to my nimble sportscar like bobcat. if the wildcat was made with the 16cc pumps and big engines that would be one nice machine comparable to my bobcat

tacoma200
06-11-2009, 08:15 PM
Of course you keep 8-10 psi in the Hustler tires and add the flex forks and it is a smooth ride. Plus the Hustler has other accessories to make it ride better. Mine may have done well on hills but with no roll bar I wouldn't have pushed it to the limit. The Super Z is fast but you pay for this with low torque for climbing grades. Overall I liked the handling of the Super Z and easy access to the seat. I wished they lowered the speed to 12 mph so it would have more torque for hills. I think Hustler is a good ZTR but my two dislikes are as follows:


1.The XR7 deck was the hardest deck to get to cut smooth above 3" that I have ever used on our grass/weeds in the transition zone. I tried every fix and kit that Hustler offered. That doesn't mean it won't cut well in your area. Very low lift deck more suited to grass that stands up.

2.Weak, weak , weak. It's like driving in overdrive all the time with those big pump/motors. You could listen to the rpm's drop when you pushed the sticks forward or went up a grade. Even with 31 hp I would prefer the pump wheel motor combination of the ATZ Hustler (12 mph). Controls were smooth and over all a great machine though. They Handle great. I would think in flatter area's the lack of torque would be less of a problem.

If you have a bad back the Super Z with the flex forks and other ride improving accessories would be one of your best bets. It does not cut grass well in all area's of the country though. Discharge not that great, it cuts standing grass and dispersal is a narrow stream at the front of the discharge chute. I have watched very closely. Forget crabgrass with this deck unless you cut very low. My dealer bought my Super Z back after about 50 hrs and gave me a full refund. Hustlers customer service and my dealers were top notch. The deck just didn't work in our poor turf.

I've said enough about the Turf Tiger in other post.

johnnybravo8802
06-11-2009, 09:54 PM
good info!
Thanks. I agree with you supercuts, the Scag is a big machine and not as nimble as others but that's a good thing on a 30 acre industrial plant. In fact, I wish I had the 72". The tiger cat is a more suited machine for small areas but it's not near as plush as the TT. Tacoma-I didn't get the chance to test the hill climbing abilities but it makes since that it lacks torque with a 15 MPH top speed. I had wondered about the 31 on a Super Z. What do you think about a 26 HP on a 72" Super Z? The Hustler I tested had NO TRACTION and I wouldn't trust it on any grade. I ran this XR7 deck in tall fescue and short rough cut and it did fine but I have heard a lot of negative things about that deck. Hustler started in the industrial market where quality of cut wasn't a concern and I think they are still there and just don't know it.:usflag:

Razorblades
06-11-2009, 10:02 PM
The Scag is the master at that. It excels in tall grass and has a wider opening than any brand out there. Look at Tacoma's thread-he has pictures.

Good review JB, the Turf Tiger with the velocity deck is one of the most versatile mowers out there, from what most people report. It does have a large opening but it is not close to being as large an opening as the EverRide Warrior's deck. Not to hijack this thread at all but I bet that the 66" Warrior deck with the 31 HP Kawasaki combo would move an unbelievable amount of grass in a hurry.

johnnybravo8802
06-11-2009, 10:18 PM
Good review JB, the Turf Tiger with the velocity deck is one of the most versatile mowers out there, from what most people report. It does have a large opening but it is not close to being as large an opening as the EverRide Warrior's deck. Not to hijack this thread at all but I bet that the 66" Warrior deck with the 31 HP Kawasaki combo would move an unbelievable amount of grass in a hurry.
Thanks. I've never looked at an everride. The lift of the velocity is what shines in my book and its ability to stand the grass up while other decks simply push it down. The XR7 simply just seemed to be spinning with no lift. I test lift by seeing how close I can get to a piece of paper on the ground. If I'm almost directly over the paper and it hasn't sucked it up, that's not much lift.

MJB
06-11-2009, 10:27 PM
Thanks. I agree with you supercuts, the Scag is a big machine and not as nimble as others but that's a good thing on a 30 acre industrial plant. In fact, I wish I had the 72". The tiger cat is a more suited machine for small areas but it's not near as plush as the TT. Tacoma-I didn't get the chance to test the hill climbing abilities but it makes since that it lacks torque with a 15 MPH top speed. I had wondered about the 31 on a Super Z. What do you think about a 26 HP on a 72" Super Z? The Hustler I tested had NO TRACTION and I wouldn't trust it on any grade. I ran this XR7 deck in tall fescue and short rough cut and it did fine but I have heard a lot of negative things about that deck. Hustler started in the industrial market where quality of cut wasn't a concern and I think they are still there and just don't know it.:usflag:

That was a good review on both mowers. I have the 66" Super Z 30 kohler that you ran. I agree with most of your post, but am surprised that it was taller than the Scag. Mine seems to be lower than most mowers or gives me that feeling that it is. Also mine is a super smooth ride compared to my Exmarks etc. One thing I want to warn everyone considering the Super Z with the 30 HP Kohler it will burn the grass everytime you stop for 30 seconds to pick up trash etc. So if you see dead spots the next week you'll know why.

My Hustler dealer was a bigtime Scag dealer for yrs now they still are a Scag dealer but they won't even get you a demo and they start at 11,000 and go up for a Turf Tiger. I think they make more selling Hustler so the really push Hustler and Kubota. They have good deals on them and are a great dealer other than I can't even see a Turf Tiger unless someone special orders one and I'm there when it's delivered. That's why I went back to Exmark.

johnnybravo8802
06-11-2009, 10:47 PM
That was a good review on both mowers. I have the 66" Super Z 30 kohler that you ran. I agree with most of your post, but am surprised that it was taller than the Scag. Mine seems to be lower than most mowers or gives me that feeling that it is. Also mine is a super smooth ride compared to my Exmarks etc. One thing I want to warn everyone considering the Super Z with the 30 HP Kohler it will burn the grass everytime you stop for 30 seconds to pick up trash etc. So if you see dead spots the next week you'll know why.

My Hustler dealer was a bigtime Scag dealer for yrs now they still are a Scag dealer but they won't even get you a demo and they start at 11,000 and go up for a Turf Tiger. I think they make more selling Hustler so the really push Hustler and Kubota. They have good deals on them and are a great dealer other than I can't even see a Turf Tiger unless someone special orders one and I'm there when it's delivered. That's why I went back to Exmark.
Does it burn the grass from the exhaust pointing down? That's not good. I was considering one because the dealer has a 26 Kawi with a 72" deck for $8100 which is an unreal but I don't know about the 26 HP thing. I too don't want to spend the cash for another Scag either.

MJB
06-11-2009, 11:20 PM
Does it burn the grass from the exhaust pointing down? That's not good. I was considering one because the dealer has a 26 Kawi with a 72" deck for $8100 which is an unreal but I don't know about the 26 HP thing. I too don't want to spend the cash for another Scag either.

Mine is a 2006 and the muffler is about a foot off the grass, but the exhaust is much higher. The problem on mine is they put some weep holes in the bottom of the muffler and that allows enough heat to blow down on the grass. I don't know if they have fixed this or not I am going to put a plate under it to block it and see if this helps. The 30 HP Kohler also vibrates more than you realize . Mine broke the deck plate the engine was mounted too after about 400 hrs. Also the exhaust broke once while under warranty.
Honestly if you want the Hustler I would go with a different engine. I wish I would of bought the L/C 26hp Kawasaki or even an air cooled Kawi a much better engine choice. I like the power of my 28 Kawi much more than the Kohler. I get a lot of hours out of my equipment, and the Hustler has been broke down more than any model I have ever owned in 18yrs of lawncare. I believe they are getting the bugs out, but I hate the XR7 deck it just leaves a crappy cut ,I double cut everything then it looks awesome.

johnnybravo8802
06-12-2009, 12:01 AM
Mine is a 2006 and the muffler is about a foot off the grass, but the exhaust is much higher. The problem on mine is they put some weep holes in the bottom of the muffler and that allows enough heat to blow down on the grass. I don't know if they have fixed this or not I am going to put a plate under it to block it and see if this helps. The 30 HP Kohler also vibrates more than you realize . Mine broke the deck plate the engine was mounted too after about 400 hrs. Also the exhaust broke once while under warranty.
Honestly if you want the Hustler I would go with a different engine. I wish I would of bought the L/C 26hp Kawasaki or even an air cooled Kawi a much better engine choice. I like the power of my 28 Kawi much more than the Kohler. I get a lot of hours out of my equipment, and the Hustler has been broke down more than any model I have ever owned in 18yrs of lawncare. I believe they are getting the bugs out, but I hate the XR7 deck it just leaves a crappy cut ,I double cut everything then it looks awesome.
The engine on the Super Z I'm looking at is a 26 HP LC Kawi but others are saying it won't be enough for a 72" deck but I don't know.

MJB
06-12-2009, 12:19 AM
The engine on the Super Z I'm looking at is a 26 HP LC Kawi but others are saying it won't be enough for a 72" deck but I don't know.

I thought you said Kohler my bad. I demoed the 26 and it wasn't bad but it really depends on what your cutting. I was mulching with the 66inch deck and was concerned that I might need more power, so I jumped on the 30 hp option later regretting it a bit. I would want to try the 26 under your conditions if it has enough power then buy it.

ancjr
06-12-2009, 12:29 AM
After 15 hours on the Super Z, the thing I like least about it is going uphill - it takes a great deal of effort to keep from getting into a closed-loop hop due to the overly sensitive sticks. Otherwise, it does as well or better than anything else I was looking at. It's much more stable on hillsides than my G110 - I had basically learned to drive it on 2 wheels. This worked great when it was new, but the steering rack wore fast.

MJB
06-12-2009, 12:35 AM
After 15 hours on the Super Z, the thing I like least about it is going uphill - it takes a great deal of effort to keep from getting into a closed-loop hop due to the overly sensitive sticks. Otherwise, it does as well or better than anything else I was looking at. It's much more stable on hillsides than my G110 - I had basically learned to drive it on 2 wheels. This worked great when it was new, but the steering rack wore fast.

Does your Super Z have the muffler with the weep holes on the bottom of it?
Does it kill grass letting it idle in 1 spot? If not tell me how they fixed it.

johnnybravo8802
06-12-2009, 12:43 AM
I thought you said Kohler my bad. I demoed the 26 and it wasn't bad but it really depends on what your cutting. I was mulching with the 66inch deck and was concerned that I might need more power, so I jumped on the 30 hp option later regretting it a bit. I would want to try the 26 under your conditions if it has enough power then buy it.
The one I demoed had a Kohler but the one they are trying to sell is a left over with a 26 Kawi. I spoke to a guy who has the exact same mower and he says it's enough for him. I just want to mow a lot of grass fast.

ancjr
06-12-2009, 12:53 AM
Does your Super Z have the muffler with the weep holes on the bottom of it?
Does it kill grass letting it idle in 1 spot? If not tell me how they fixed it.

Mines a 2007, and I did leave it running for about 5 minutes in one spot and browned the top of the grass.

puppypaws
06-12-2009, 01:51 AM
Hillside stability: NO CONTEST!!!!!!!!!The Scag walks the dog in this category. It has a lower COG and sticks to hills like glue-literally. I ride some pretty nasty ditches and hills and the Scag rarely slips a tire. The Hustler is actually wider but I wouldn't trust it as far as I could throw it. I was spinning tires each time I'd turn it and it wasn't from speed. If you pointed it down on the slightest incline, it started sliding and felt like it had no weight on the rear. However, when you'd take off, it wanted to wheelie. The balance of the machine was very strange. Even the Exmarks' I had held hills much better than the Hustler. I was very surprised with this fact.



Never heard this from anyone, the Hustler Super Z with low air pressure holds slopes extremely well.

This is a 24° slope that I measured and calculated, I could hardly get off the mower to take the picture, it never attempts to slide on this slope unless the grass is a little damp. You can tell the slope gets steeper the closer you get to the pipe.

For those that like to calculate, it is a vertical drop of 4' in a level horizontal distance of 9'. In other words from the top of the road bed to the bottom of the slope; measured as with a flat level it is 9', we are not talking about the slope distance which is always longer.

MJB
06-12-2009, 09:36 AM
Never heard this from anyone, the Hustler Super Z with low air pressure holds slopes extremely well.

This is a 24° slope that I measured and calculated, I could hardly get off the mower to take the picture, it never attempts to slide on this slope unless the grass is a little damp. You can tell the slope gets steeper the closer you get to the pipe.

For those that like to calculate, it is a vertical drop of 4' in a level horizontal distance of 9'. In other words from the top of the road bed to the bottom of the slope; measured as with a flat level it is 9', we are not talking about the slope distance which is always longer.

I noticed that too. Mine holds the hills as good as my Exmark it just doesn't climb well because of the high geared pumps etc. But he also said something about the mower being jerky, which is the total opposite of mine.
Mine has very soft steering, all my other mowers have been jerky compared to the Hustler so maybe Hustler has changed something there. Also when I first got mine it was jerky under stress hills etc, and would lose traction in certain conditions. So who knows whats going on?

tacoma200
06-12-2009, 10:04 AM
I noticed that too. Mine holds the hills as good as my Exmark it just doesn't climb well because of the high geared pumps etc. But he also said something about the mower being jerky, which is the total opposite of mine.
Mine has very soft steering, all my other mowers have been jerky compared to the Hustler so maybe Hustler has changed something there. Also when I first got mine it was jerky under stress hills etc, and would lose traction in certain conditions. So who knows whats going on?

No the Hustler isn't jerky, it's just after getting off the heavily dampened Scag controls the Hustler would seem that way. I was constantly getting off the Scag onto the Exmark and the Exmark is so much more responsive it just feels jerky until you get adjusted. The Hustler is in between the Scag and Exmark in the way it responds. I always considered it smooth. And it held well on hills but as you say the big pumps and motors really zapped the power/torque. It just took me a few moments to adjust to each mower and all seemed normal again.

djagusch
06-12-2009, 10:23 AM
I'm guessing the weep holes are for condensation drainage so the exhaust doesn't rust out.

For the hill side I'm going to demo on Monday a 31 Kawi 72" deck. I have some hills in a park system to try it out on. I'm guessing Johnny is use to the TT weight which makes it hold better and feel more solid. Guessing I'll have the same using also.

MJB
06-12-2009, 10:31 AM
I'm guessing the weep holes are for condensation drainage so the exhaust doesn't rust out.

For the hill side I'm going to demo on Monday a 31 Kawi 72" deck. I have some hills in a park system to try it out on. I'm guessing Johnny is use to the TT weight which makes it hold better and feel more solid. Guessing I'll have the same using also.

Let us know how clean it cuts also. Usually the Xr7 in cool season grasses
leaves rooster tails everywhere after 1 pass.

Yes the weep holes are for moisture they just need to engineer a plate to block the heat from blowing downward. It's a simple fix but they have not addressed it yet for some reason.

Razorblades
06-12-2009, 10:34 AM
I'm guessing the weep holes are for condensation drainage so the exhaust doesn't rust out.

For the hill side I'm going to demo on Monday a 31 Kawi 72" deck. I have some hills in a park system to try it out on. I'm guessing Johnny is use to the TT weight which makes it hold better and feel more solid. Guessing I'll have the same using also.

Which brand are you demo'ing?

MJB
06-12-2009, 10:43 AM
No the Hustler isn't jerky, it's just after getting off the heavily dampened Scag controls the Hustler would seem that way. I was constantly getting off the Scag onto the Exmark and the Exmark is so much more responsive it just feels jerky until you get adjusted. The Hustler is in between the Scag and Exmark in the way it responds. I always considered it smooth. And it held well on hills but as you say the big pumps and motors really zapped the power/torque. It just took me a few moments to adjust to each mower and all seemed normal again.

I wish I could get a Scag demo for comparison with my Exmark. But it won't happen unless I drive 200 miles. I would like to trade in my Hustler or sell it next yr and get a Scag or Bad Boy. But neither is really an option yet for this area. But I won't buy another Hustler until they make some major deck changes, and slow it down for climbing etc.

I called John Deer for a demo this year and they told me I got a demo 3 yrs ago and never purchased the mower so no demo. :hammerhead: I couldn't believe that. They couldn't answer any of my questions about trying a different blade combo on their mulch on demand deck because it wouldn't discharge well enough...and they didn't have a clue, so I bought the Hustler.

So really Exmark, Hustler, and Cub Cadet are my choices for this area which is very frustrating. But at least my Exmarks have served me well.

puppypaws
06-12-2009, 02:43 PM
I noticed that too. Mine holds the hills as good as my Exmark it just doesn't climb well because of the high geared pumps etc. But he also said something about the mower being jerky, which is the total opposite of mine.
Mine has very soft steering, all my other mowers have been jerky compared to the Hustler so maybe Hustler has changed something there. Also when I first got mine it was jerky under stress hills etc, and would lose traction in certain conditions. So who knows whats going on?

Unless something has been drastically on the XR-7 deck I doubt it would ever suit your cutting situation.

There is one thing I wish you were able to try and it is not in existence. That is a Super Z with enough fuel injected engine that the rpms would never fall under any of your circumstances. I doubt you have gotten to see how the deck actually performs at top blade tip speed during all mowing conditions. It really makes no difference what deck is cutting, if there is not more than enough power to never let the blade tip speed drop, it is impossible for a deck to perform the way it was designed.

I imagine going up your steep slopes with the big pumps pulling hp and the thick grass pulling more, the deck would be coughing grass out the discharge instead of fanning it.

It still may never be the mower to suit your conditions, but I would be willing to bet if you had a 38 or 40 hp efi on a Super Z, you would see a totally different cutting mower. The deck would definitely perform to its designed capability and nothing could slow it down. When you lose the least amount of blade tip speed, a deck performs totally different

djagusch
06-12-2009, 06:11 PM
Which brand are you demo'ing?

The Hustler Super Z, just looking at a 72" mower for a park system and some of my other country accounts that cut quality is not the most important thing and speed is. If I was going for just cut quality I would be buying another Scag.

puppypaws
06-12-2009, 06:19 PM
The Hustler Super Z, just looking at a 72" mower for a park system and some of my other country accounts that cut quality is not the most important thing and speed is. If I was going for just cut quality I would be buying another Scag.

Please let us know how the 31 handles the 72" deck?

djagusch
06-12-2009, 06:50 PM
Please let us know how the 31 handles the 72" deck?

On Monday the park system won't have heavy growth since it's been pretty dry over the last week but it has a good hill. But on Wednesday I'll be at a couple places that get cut every other and we had heavy rains last week so I'm expecting it to be pretty thick. I pretty much have the mower to use at will until I buy it or it goes back to the rep (which will be a couple weeks) so I'm planning on using it often.

puppypaws
06-12-2009, 07:07 PM
On Monday the park system won't have heavy growth since it's been pretty dry over the last week but it has a good hill. But on Wednesday I'll be at a couple places that get cut every other and we had heavy rains last week so I'm expecting it to be pretty thick. I pretty much have the mower to use at will until I buy it or it goes back to the rep (which will be a couple weeks) so I'm planning on using it often.

That is a great demo, not many people get that convenience. I'm looking forward to information on power of the 31. My thinking is that the Super Z with its big pumps and 72" deck will do pretty well with the 31 but in certain conditions it could use 5 more hp.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, this will be an interesting test.

johnnybravo8802
06-12-2009, 08:43 PM
That is a great demo, not many people get that convenience. I'm looking forward to information on power of the 31. My thinking is that the Super Z with its big pumps and 72" deck will do pretty well with the 31 but in certain conditions it could use 5 more hp.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts, this will be an interesting test.
I'd like to see how the 31 does with the 72" also-that would be my choice. Maybe Hustler will start putting the 37 Kawi on the Super Z.:clapping:Yea, the Hustler I tried out was slipping and sliding all over the place and not what I expected. It would have not handled a 20+ degree slope. MY Scag will handle a 28 degree slope without ever slipping a tire. I am renting a 60" rear discharge Hustler this coming up week and have always wondered how they would do. I'll let you know. Maybe I can get Hustler to build me a 37 Kawi with a 72" rear discharge deck!!!!:dancing::dancing:

puppypaws
06-12-2009, 09:20 PM
I'd like to see how the 31 does with the 72" also-that would be my choice. Maybe Hustler will start putting the 37 Kawi on the Super Z.:clapping:Yea, the Hustler I tried out was slipping and sliding all over the place and not what I expected. It would have not handled a 20+ degree slope. MY Scag will handle a 28 degree slope without ever slipping a tire. I am renting a 60" rear discharge Hustler this coming up week and have always wondered how they would do. I'll let you know. Maybe I can get Hustler to build me a 37 Kawi with a 72" rear discharge deck!!!!:dancing::dancing:

A 37 Kawasaki with a Bosch electronic fuel injection system would be the ultimate.

johnnybravo8802
06-12-2009, 09:29 PM
A 37 Kawasaki with a Bosch electronic fuel injection system would be the ultimate.
They may head that way soon. If you want to see some of my work, go to the other section where people are posting their work and I put up some pictures of the Solo plant I do-nothing fancy, just a lot of mowing. My Scag and the Hustler are on there also. It's under Greener Pastures Landscape Management.

MJB
06-12-2009, 10:13 PM
Unless something has been drastically on the XR-7 deck I doubt it would ever suit your cutting situation.

There is one thing I wish you were able to try and it is not in existence. That is a Super Z with enough fuel injected engine that the rpms would never fall under any of your circumstances. I doubt you have gotten to see how the deck actually performs at top blade tip speed during all mowing conditions. It really makes no difference what deck is cutting, if there is not more than enough power to never let the blade tip speed drop, it is impossible for a deck to perform the way it was designed.

I imagine going up your steep slopes with the big pumps pulling hp and the thick grass pulling more, the deck would be coughing grass out the discharge instead of fanning it.

It still may never be the mower to suit your conditions, but I would be willing to bet if you had a 38 or 40 hp efi on a Super Z, you would see a totally different cutting mower. The deck would definitely perform to its designed capability and nothing could slow it down. When you lose the least amount of blade tip speed, a deck performs totally different

While I do have some decent hills nothing like Tacoma does, I also mow a lot of flat ground. I have the mulching kit in which takes more power also, but I put it in so I could mow any property large and small 1/2 acre to 5 acres. No matter how slow I go the first pass is rarely cut clean enough so I have to double cut. Side discharging is the same only faster on the big properties, just can't use it on the small ones as easy, and it leaves bigger clippings on the ground and I really hate to look back and see all the grass clippings sitting on top even if it's evenly spread out.
Once in a while the cut will be clean but it is when my conditions are simular to yours, less growth, cutting shorter stiffer grass. Our problem too is we can't just blow all the clippings into a field to hide them like you can which makes a huge difference. Try mowing back and forth making stripes and see how hard it is to hide the clippings. Many people want it bagged if the clippings are showing on top, which is a real headache. More power will help but the deck is just not that good, it has major blowout issues on the left side. The Exmark cuts great in comparison, but the productivity of the Hustler is unbelievable when things are working right. I hope they improve it more.

How much is all this HP going to cost us in Carbon Emmision Taxes down the road?? Any idea?

tacoma200
06-12-2009, 10:22 PM
While I do have some decent hills nothing like Tacoma does, I also mow a lot of flat ground. I have the mulching kit in which takes more power also, but I put it in so I could mow any property large and small 1/2 acre to 5 acres. No matter how slow I go the first pass is rarely cut clean enough so I have to double cut. Side discharging is the same only faster on the big properties, just can't use it on the small ones as easy, and it leaves bigger clippings on the ground and I really hate to look back and see all the grass clippings sitting on top even if it's evenly spread out.
Once in a while the cut will be clean but it is when my conditions are simular to yours, less growth, cutting shorter stiffer grass. Our problem too is we can't just blow all the clippings into a field to hide them like you can which makes a huge difference. Try mowing back and forth making stripes and see how hard it is to hide the clippings. Many people want it bagged if the clippings are showing on top, which is a real headache. More power will help but the deck is just not that good, it has major blowout issues on the left side. The Exmark cuts great in comparison, but the productivity of the Hustler is unbelievable when things are working right. I hope they improve it more.

How much is all this HP going to cost us in Carbon Emmision Taxes down the road?? Any idea?
I don't think you would be happy with the longer Scag clippings. Even the hurricane mulch kit takes up a lot of space under the deck which defeats the purpose of the extra length of the deck for letting grass stand up. I think your on the right track with Exmark. Any way your pictures have always showed the quality of your work which is top notch.

johnnybravo8802
06-12-2009, 10:36 PM
It's funny but the cut wasn't a problem for me on the Hustler but it may be after I use it more. I'm going to try the rear discharge which should be interesting. I wish Scag made a rear discharge velocity.

puppypaws
06-12-2009, 10:55 PM
While I do have some decent hills nothing like Tacoma does, I also mow a lot of flat ground. I have the mulching kit in which takes more power also, but I put it in so I could mow any property large and small 1/2 acre to 5 acres. No matter how slow I go the first pass is rarely cut clean enough so I have to double cut. Side discharging is the same only faster on the big properties, just can't use it on the small ones as easy, and it leaves bigger clippings on the ground and I really hate to look back and see all the grass clippings sitting on top even if it's evenly spread out.
Once in a while the cut will be clean but it is when my conditions are simular to yours, less growth, cutting shorter stiffer grass. Our problem too is we can't just blow all the clippings into a field to hide them like you can which makes a huge difference. Try mowing back and forth making stripes and see how hard it is to hide the clippings. Many people want it bagged if the clippings are showing on top, which is a real headache. More power will help but the deck is just not that good, it has major blowout issues on the left side. The Exmark cuts great in comparison, but the productivity of the Hustler is unbelievable when things are working right. I hope they improve it more.

How much is all this HP going to cost us in Carbon Emmision Taxes down the road?? Any idea?

The prices are going to jump considerably on all engines where efi technology is applied. From what I am hearing directly from Kohler; this is coming into place very quickly.

I made the statement to one of the Kohler engineers that mechanics were scared of the efi engines. He said, they need to start getting over that fear because not to far in the future there will be no more carburetor type engines. They are in the working process at this very minute of putting Bosch efi systems on every engine they manufacture.

djagusch
06-23-2009, 01:32 PM
Well last week I put 11.3 hrs on a Super Z 31HP 72" deck and it worked pretty well. It had .9hrs on the mower when I started.

Some background: I currently run 2002 Scag Turf Tiger 27HP 61" and have no cut or complaints on the machine. It is my main mower but I have a park system and handful of country accounts that have basically wide open mowing which I would like done quicker. That is what the mower being looked at for.

Cut: At 3" cut height. If you are cutting a inch or less it will cut good at full speed. Between 2 to 3 inches it's ok but for the properties I'm looking at it's acceptable. At 4 " cut height with a lush grass. It cut 1.5" off decent but slowed in spots. Between 2 to 3 inches it cut it at half speed anything above would slow the mower. At 5" cut height. I did mow some builder lots that were over a foot tall in areas. It mowed this well at max deck height but I was moving pretty slow.

Motor: I ran it in a mixture of conditions and it got 1.41 gph. Overall the motor did well. It did bog in heavy conditions but I normally don't mow in those conditions.

Hydro's: They are slick. Speed is good and rarely slowed. Up a large hill I got them to slow way down but it's a rarity to have a hill like that one. They are definitely different from the scag, I think I would like them dampened more but they are fine as is. It was a bit jerky for the first 10 min then I got use to them.

Hillside: Worked well but not as well as the Scag. It is wider than the Scag but maybe to wide for it's weight. It's not tippy going side ways on hills but it slides due to the lack of weight/grip. I think the Scag at times can feel tippy but I would rather have that then slide and catch a tire edge then flip. Up and down was easy but going up the flex forks bounced the front a bit and made it feel unstable. Same area I cruise up with the Scag. Side note, I was lucky enough to find tip over point with my Scag 2 years ago but my trac vac bagger kept the mower from going over, I push the mowers pretty hard on hills.

Flex Forks: I liked them but with the 72" deck the front was bouncing and scalped some areas. Also I scalped some area's when I normally use one wheel to carry the front weight, with the flex fork it lowered the front greatly. Maybe I need to get use to them more but I don't know if more time would help or not. Guessing the weight of the deck has to due t the performance of the flex forks.

Overall quality: Seemed fine but had a couple issues. The ROPS bolt was the wrong length and had one or two threads holding the nut on. It came to the dealer as a demo so the rep or distributor put the ROPS on. Personally it will be the first thing that comes off the mower when I buy it, but it should be right. The other item was one pump fitting was damp around it. So the dealer tightened it up problem should be solved. Otherwise it's not built as tough as my Scag but should be fine.

Real World: On my accounts I used the mower I cut mowing times between 25 to 40% depending on how much wide area mowing there was. It saved a lot time which means saving money.

Verdict: After next week I'll own it just waiting for a couple checks to come in. Paying cash $10,250 out the door with the flex forks.

mhussey
06-23-2009, 01:43 PM
The Scag is the master at that. It excels in tall grass and has a wider opening than any brand out there. Look at Tacoma's thread-he has pictures.


I don't think that's correct. I believe the Everide Warrior has the largest discharge opening. Correct me if I'm wrong.

mhussey
06-23-2009, 01:48 PM
I don't think that's correct. I believe the Everide Warrior has the largest discharge opening. Correct me if I'm wrong.


My bad, this has already been addressed. Sorry.

puppypaws
06-23-2009, 03:14 PM
Well last week I put 11.3 hrs on a Super Z 31HP 72" deck and it worked pretty well. It had .9hrs on the mower when I started.

Some background: I currently run 2002 Scag Turf Tiger 27HP 61" and have no cut or complaints on the machine. It is my main mower but I have a park system and handful of country accounts that have basically wide open mowing which I would like done quicker. That is what the mower being looked at for.

Cut: At 3" cut height. If you are cutting a inch or less it will cut good at full speed. Between 2 to 3 inches it's ok but for the properties I'm looking at it's acceptable. At 4 " cut height with a lush grass. It cut 1.5" off decent but slowed in spots. Between 2 to 3 inches it cut it at half speed anything above would slow the mower. At 5" cut height. I did mow some builder lots that were over a foot tall in areas. It mowed this well at max deck height but I was moving pretty slow.

Motor: I ran it in a mixture of conditions and it got 1.41 gph. Overall the motor did well. It did bog in heavy conditions but I normally don't mow in those conditions.

Hydro's: They are slick. Speed is good and rarely slowed. Up a large hill I got them to slow way down but it's a rarity to have a hill like that one. They are definitely different from the scag, I think I would like them dampened more but they are fine as is. It was a bit jerky for the first 10 min then I got use to them.

Hillside: Worked well but not as well as the Scag. It is wider than the Scag but maybe to wide for it's weight. It's not tippy going side ways on hills but it slides due to the lack of weight/grip. I think the Scag at times can feel tippy but I would rather have that then slide and catch a tire edge then flip. Up and down was easy but going up the flex forks bounced the front a bit and made it feel unstable. Same area I cruise up with the Scag. Side note, I was lucky enough to find tip over point with my Scag 2 years ago but my trac vac bagger kept the mower from going over, I push the mowers pretty hard on hills.

Flex Forks: I liked them but with the 72" deck the front was bouncing and scalped some areas. Also I scalped some area's when I normally use one wheel to carry the front weight, with the flex fork it lowered the front greatly. Maybe I need to get use to them more but I don't know if more time would help or not. Guessing the weight of the deck has to due t the performance of the flex forks.

Overall quality: Seemed fine but had a couple issues. The ROPS bolt was the wrong length and had one or two threads holding the nut on. It came to the dealer as a demo so the rep or distributor put the ROPS on. Personally it will be the first thing that comes off the mower when I buy it, but it should be right. The other item was one pump fitting was damp around it. So the dealer tightened it up problem should be solved. Otherwise it's not built as tough as my Scag but should be fine.

Real World: On my accounts I used the mower I cut mowing times between 25 to 40% depending on how much wide area mowing there was. It saved a lot time which means saving money.

Verdict: After next week I'll own it just waiting for a couple checks to come in. Paying cash $10,250 out the door with the flex forks.

You are dead on with this post, you will ride better and be much more productive with this mower in large open areas, different mowers have different things they do better.

The flex forks will over flex at times due to weight difference. I have explained this to Hustler, my dealer has experienced the same thing with the 72" Super Z. I said the rubber composition needs to be stronger on the 72" deck than my 66", and my 66" needs to be stronger than the 60". I think they are really aware of this but it is not cost effective, therefore they shoot for a happy medium.

You would not believe the difference the flex seat base makes in ride as well, in combination with the flex forks it is amazing how much easier it is on your entire body.

I think you will, no, I know you will find this to be the most productive mower you have owned. The mower you are buying; will cut so much grass in an hour, it will be difficult for you to comprehend.

Make sure to come back and tell us how much more money or time saved the Super Z generates for you.

djagusch
06-23-2009, 05:30 PM
You are dead on with this post, you will ride better and be much more productive with this mower in large open areas, different mowers have different things they do better.

The flex forks will over flex at times due to weight difference. I have explained this to Hustler, my dealer has experienced the same thing with the 72" Super Z. I said the rubber composition needs to be stronger on the 72" deck than my 66", and my 66" needs to be stronger than the 60". I think they are really aware of this but it is not cost effective, therefore they shoot for a happy medium.

You would not believe the difference the flex seat base makes in ride as well, in combination with the flex forks it is amazing how much easier it is on your entire body.

I think you will, no, I know you will find this to be the most productive mower you have owned. The mower you are buying; will cut so much grass in an hour, it will be difficult for you to comprehend.

Make sure to come back and tell us how much more money or time saved the Super Z generates for you.

I mentioned the flex fork bounce to my dealer and the rep mentioned to him that the 72" would be bouncy. He wanted to know if I noticed or not, but for $200 I'll get them and take them off if I can't get them to work well. In the spring I'll get a 60" also so I can put them on that also.

One thing I forgot was the hydro cooler. We have cottonwood trees at one account and with the electric fan it sucked it on the cooler so the cooling would be reduced. Didn't really think about it until I noticed it. I'm used to the LC Kawi and checking that but the hydro cooler never thought about. Just thought people should be aware.

puppypaws
06-23-2009, 11:54 PM
I mentioned the flex fork bounce to my dealer and the rep mentioned to him that the 72" would be bouncy. He wanted to know if I noticed or not, but for $200 I'll get them and take them off if I can't get them to work well. In the spring I'll get a 60" also so I can put them on that also.

One thing I forgot was the hydro cooler. We have cottonwood trees at one account and with the electric fan it sucked it on the cooler so the cooling would be reduced. Didn't really think about it until I noticed it. I'm used to the LC Kawi and checking that but the hydro cooler never thought about. Just thought people should be aware.

What air pressure is in the four tires?