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View Full Version : Ultra Cut vs Tubo force


tacoma200
06-11-2009, 11:19 PM
Who has run these two decks against each other?

FastMan
06-12-2009, 01:43 AM
bumping this thread up. Thanks for posting it, Tacoma.

mowerknower
06-12-2009, 02:26 AM
Hands down, over all best deck ever (except for the spindle bearings) ultra cut wins. Nobody else needs to post after this.

tacoma200
06-12-2009, 10:56 PM
I think it would be helpful for guys considering the New Lazer and Toro if we had more information how these decks preformed in the same conditions. If I understand correctly this is the main difference between the new models (Turbo Force or Ultra Cut). Where are you Toro guys?

TMlawncare
06-12-2009, 11:10 PM
The ultracut series 4 on the older machine was a great deck with decent spindle bearings. I have never had one to fail yet on 4 machines. 3 Turf tracer 60" and one lazer 60". 5500 combined hours. Like I said the said the bearings are not that bad just not as beefy as the new series 6 ultracut or the toro turboforce. As far a performance goes the old series 4 ultracut is one of the best decks ever. They managed to improve its performance even more with the series 6. Besides the new beefier spindles they did tweek the discharge area slightly. This helped reduce some clumping in lush, wet conditions. The turbo force is very good design, but the edge goes to the new series 6 deck. When we demoed it head to head with the old deck it performed just a little better on every grass type, zoysia, fescue, rye, bluegrass , wet grass, tall grass, etc. The tweeks they made on the discharge as slight as the appear to be really give it the added edge.

Laner
06-13-2009, 09:59 AM
I have the Toro 60" TF. It leaves a very nice cut. I can't compare it to the ultracut cause I haven't demoed one. The TF will cut thru tall wet grass (KBG) and leave it spread out evenly without clumping. I only have about 70 hrs on mine so far, but really like the results.

Lonny90
06-13-2009, 11:13 AM
I have run next lazer z and g3 back to back. The turbo-force didn't bog as quickly as the ultra-cut. They both left a clean cut, and in the conditions we were in; they both clumped. The turbo-force was carrying a bigger engine than the ultra-cut. However, if both engines were the same; I feel the turbo-force would still bog less. I have not yet seen any deck beat the turbo-force in heavy growth. As a dealer for toro; we try to keep an open mind, if another mower can beat a toro in cut-quality and overall performance, we would consider carrying that line. I have seen many mowers try. I won't mention names unless you ask me too.:)

FastMan
06-13-2009, 12:27 PM
Lonny, what size engines did the z and g3 you were testing have?

Those 2 machines are supposidly the same except for the decks. Are there any other differences a potential purchaser should be aware of? Is the handling response identical? I'm considering both. I've tested the Lazer, and will be testing the G3 soon.

Lonny90
06-13-2009, 01:34 PM
Fastman:
The z had a 27 koh.
The g3 had a 29 kaw.
The only other difference I saw was the controls, the deck, and the seat. The 27 koh lazer comes with a different seat from the 29 kaw. The 27 koh g3 has the same seat as the 29 kaw. The choke is a lever on the lazer and a pull knob on the g3.

The exmark 27 koh had this seat: http://www.exmark.com/popups/seatlarge.htm
All g3s and 29 kaw and larger exmarks have this seat:
http://www.toro.com/professional/lce/zmaster/images/zm74935_seat_1972_13_lg.jpg

As far as handling, they are equal; both handle extremely well.

tacoma200
06-13-2009, 03:08 PM
I have run next lazer z and g3 back to back. The turbo-force didn't bog as quickly as the ultra-cut. They both left a clean cut, and in the conditions we were in; they both clumped. The turbo-force was carrying a bigger engine than the ultra-cut. However, if both engines were the same; I feel the turbo-force would still bog less. I have not yet seen any deck beat the turbo-force in heavy growth. As a dealer for toro; we try to keep an open mind, if another mower can beat a toro in cut-quality and overall performance, we would consider carrying that line. I have seen many mowers try. I won't mention names unless you ask me too.:)

You need to post more often. Toro doesn't get it's fair share of post or replies. Were you using the Turbo force and can you tell a big difference when you have the chute opened up or closes down in different conditions?

FastMan
06-13-2009, 03:09 PM
Thanks, Lonny. Your comments suggested, though less than the lazer, that you were experiencing some bogging on the G3 in the wet and heavy grass, so I was guessing it wasn't the 34.

Lonny90
06-13-2009, 06:59 PM
Tacoma, I appreciate the invite.:) I come on as I have time; which lately with the mowing season in full, and all the rain we have had here in northern TN and southern KY, I'm busy trying to keep our customers going and happy.:) Yes, we were using the turbo-force, and the further shut the baffle goes, the more your engine bogs. I only shut it if the grass is dry and short. 90% of the time, I leave it open. The only adavantage I've found with shutting it is that the clippings disperse further and get cut finer, cut quality isn't really affected

Fastman:
No problem!
We were running in wet clover and fescue mixed with junk grass. This stuff was not mowed for nearly 2.5 weeks. The toro could hold maybe 3500 rpm with the lap bars all the way forward. The exmark was holding maybe 3000 with the lap bars all the way forward. I believe both toro and exmark are set at 3700-3800 rpm, so that shows how much difference there really was. I am thinking the turbo-force is better in heavy stuff, but I don't want to make a definite desicion until I run them with equal engines.:)

mowzilla
06-17-2009, 11:22 PM
if i may, can i throw my two cents in??

now, i haven't run the toro z master, but i have run exmark lazers, next z and old z, series 4 and the new series 6. i have two beefs with exmark:

1. they clump a lot in wet or high grass ( see comment on walkbehinds below) ..
2. new deck holds a lot of grass up in it (series 6 especially with mulch kit)..so much, that in high grass you have to cut it off somewhere where you don't mind cleaning up clumps.

on walkbehinds:

i have owned a toro proline 36 for 20 years. i have worked for myself, and have worked full time for two different companies ( one i am at now is awesome!) mon-thurs, myself on fri/sat. i have a lot hours running the toro proline and the exmark turf tracers.

1.the exmark leaves a great cut unless its high or weedy..weedy (junky) grass seems like no matter how sharp the blade is or how slow you go, it seems you have to cut it twice to get it all.
2.clumps more than my toro..

my proline seems to handle whatever you throw at it, if you watch what you are doing, it seems to nail it first pass everytime. i have tried everything, mulch or discharge, and it seems the exmark always misses the weedy stuff. if the turbo force is better than what i have, it would have to be awesome. my older proline also leaves a great finish.

otherwise, the exmark for the most part leaves a killer finish.

tacoma200
06-17-2009, 11:37 PM
if i may, can i throw my two cents in??

now, i haven't run the toro z master, but i have run exmark lazers, next z and old z, series 4 and the new series 6. i have two beefs with exmark:

1. they clump a lot in wet or high grass ( see comment on walkbehinds below) ..
2. new deck holds a lot of grass up in it (series 6 especially with mulch kit)..so much, that in high grass you have to cut it off somewhere where you don't mind cleaning up clumps.

on walkbehinds:

i have owned a toro proline 36 for 20 years. i have worked for myself, and have worked full time for two different companies ( one i am at now is awesome!) mon-thurs, myself on fri/sat. i have a lot hours running the toro proline and the exmark turf tracers.

1.the exmark leaves a great cut unless its high or weedy..weedy (junky) grass seems like no matter how sharp the blade is or how slow you go, it seems you have to cut it twice to get it all.
2.clumps more than my toro..

my proline seems to handle whatever you throw at it, if you watch what you are doing, it seems to nail it first pass everytime. i have tried everything, mulch or discharge, and it seems the exmark always misses the weedy stuff. if the turbo force is better than what i have, it would have to be awesome. my older proline also leaves a great finish.

otherwise, the exmark for the most part leaves a killer finish.

Of course your input is welcome and helpful.

mhussey
06-18-2009, 10:41 AM
I have the Turbo Force deck on my Toro. It has a 19Hp Kawi motor with a 48" deck. I have never ran a UltraCut before, but have ran a TriVantage. The TurboForce in my opinion leaves the same if not better cut than the TriVantage. The TriVantage just wasn't a good deck when there was any moisture to the grass. It would clump and just stick so bad under the deck. The TurboForce don't shoot and clumps or chunks out. Depending on what your cutting, there will be minimal sticking under the deck. I like to just scrape it clean every once in a while though.

Good thing about the TurboForce is the clipping length. It does a real good job chopping clippings up in the open position. Also, if you move it to the closed, they get real small. However, if it's moist at all don't move to the closed position. For dry grass, and leaves it does one heck of a job.

My brother has an Everide Warrior. Though they are two totally different decks there are many places his deck shines through, and there are many places where the Turbo Force shines. His deck will process any thing and everything you throw at it. Some what similar to the Velocity. However, it just leaves long clippings. If it's wet and you have some longer saturated grass, it just makes a mess. The Turbo Force will disperse a lot better and not make any mess at all. Hope I explained that well.

I feel the Turbo Force is a great deck. Is it better than an Ultra Cut? I don't know about that. They are a great deck as well. In my opinion, I would love to have a Hustler frame with a Turbo Force hung under it.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/mhussey1/Yard%20Pics%2007/Picture814.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/mhussey1/Yard%20Pics%2007/Picture467.jpg

Clipping dispersal. My dog gets to close sometimes for comfort.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/mhussey1/MISC/Picture1273.jpg

Single pass @ either 3.5" or 3.75".

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/mhussey1/MISC/Picture1267.jpg

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/mhussey1/MISC/Picture1277.jpg

Front of yard @ 4"

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/mhussey1/MISC/Picture1279.jpg

mhussey
06-18-2009, 10:49 AM
Need to note that the back yard doesn't have the best turf. It has a mixture of a little everything like TTTF, Common Bermuda, Clover, Bahia, and probably somemore that I have no idea what it is. Hopefully my opinion and pic's will do fine.

I will also note that the cut of the grass has became better with the addition of the Magnamatic blade sharpener. Man it's like a hot knife through butter.

Ok, I'm done for a while. Sorry for the long one before prior to this post.

Take care.

Lonny90
06-18-2009, 11:06 AM
Need to note that the back yard doesn't have the best turf. It has a mixture of a little everything like TTTF, Common Bermuda, Clover, Bahia, and probably somemore that I have no idea what it is. Hopefully my opinion and pic's will do fine.

I will also note that the cut of the grass has became better with the addition of the Magnamatic blade sharpener. Man it's like a hot knife through butter.

Ok, I'm done for a while. Sorry for the long one before prior to this post.

Take care.

Looks great! Do you have a striping kit?

mhussey
06-18-2009, 11:17 AM
Looks great! Do you have a striping kit?

No stripe kit. I have thought about buying the Harrison Specialty roller for it, however I can't justify 169$ just to enhance stripes.

Thanks for the compliment though.

Lonny90
06-18-2009, 11:22 AM
No stripe kit. I have thought about buying the Harrison Specialty roller for it, however I can't justify 169$ just to enhance stripes.

Thanks for the compliment though.

I just thought your stripes looked pretty well defined, more than I'm used to seeing, so I thought I'd ask.

scagmanjosh
06-18-2009, 11:29 AM
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/mhussey1/MISC/Picture1273.jpg

Dude, does your doggie enjoy a grass shower?! Be careful with that, you could put his eye out if hes always running along the discharge of your Toro. :nono:

mhussey
06-18-2009, 11:33 AM
Yea, like I said in the statement above the picture, he will tend to run up beside the mower all the time. I have tried to keep him from doing that, but he is hard headed. Typically, mowing as high as I do I don't have to worry about rocks, sticks, etc, but that's really no excuse I know.

greenred
06-18-2009, 11:45 AM
Those are the nicest stripes I have ever seen from a Turbo Force Deck. I have watched a lot of local Lawn Companies who run Toros with Turbo Force Deck and while their cut quality is good, none of them can get them to stripe worth a crap. It was often on grass I have seen striped before when they ran different brands of equipment on it so its not like the grass couldnt be striped. In fact I was watching a crew running a new Toro Stander and a Toro Z both with the same deck a couple weeks ago on grass that I have seen striped well in the past. Neither machine was putting down any stripes. I dont know what the deal is or why they dont leave good stripes here. I personally have ran a Exmark TTHP with a 52 inch TriAdvantage Deck. Until I bought my Scag Turf Tiger I thought that the TriAdvantage Deck was the best I have ever used. It discharged really well. I had to double cut usually in the spring to leave that vacuumed look, but the grass I was cutting was so thick and wet just about any mower would of had to. It striped really well, but I had the stripper roller option on it. I will say I often used it in places I could of easily used my Toro Z with SFS deck because the cut quality and striping was so much better.

mhussey
06-18-2009, 12:00 PM
Those are the nicest stripes I have ever seen from a Turbo Force Deck. I have watched a lot of local Lawn Companies who run Toros with Turbo Force Deck and while their cut quality is good, none of them can get them to stripe worth a crap. It was often on grass I have seen striped before when they ran different brands of equipment on it so its not like the grass couldnt be striped. In fact I was watching a crew running a new Toro Stander and a Toro Z both with the same deck a couple weeks ago on grass that I have seen striped well in the past. Neither machine was putting down any stripes. I dont know what the deal is or why they dont leave good stripes here. I personally have ran a Exmark TTHP with a 52 inch TriAdvantage Deck. Until I bought my Scag Turf Tiger I thought that the TriAdvantage Deck was the best I have ever used. It discharged really well. I had to double cut usually in the spring to leave that vacuumed look, but the grass I was cutting was so thick and wet just about any mower would of had to. It striped really well, but I had the stripper roller option on it. I will say I often used it in places I could of easily used my Toro Z with SFS deck because the cut quality and striping was so much better.

Thanks greenred. However, I really wasn't posting for the striping ability, just cut. I have some nice stripes laid with it as well. See below.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/mhussey1/Yard%20Pics%2007/Picture852.jpg

Camera was a bit out of focus. Low light conditions.
http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/mhussey1/Yard%20Pics%2007/Picture859.jpg

This was in the fall, obviously.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/mhussey1/Yard%20Pics%2007/Stripes.jpg

Summer

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n59/mhussey1/Yard%20Pics%2007/DSC00619.jpg

mhussey
06-18-2009, 02:05 PM
Wow, I had assumed this posting would have got more attention than this. Very surprising to say the least. Consider this a bump then.

Lonny90
06-19-2009, 12:16 AM
That's a nice cut, mhussey.
Looks like the turbo-force can stripe very well if the conditions are right.

whoopassonthebluegrass
06-19-2009, 12:23 AM
Those are the nicest stripes I have ever seen from a Turbo Force Deck.

The stripes in my signature are from a 36" Turboforce.

ToroLandscaper
06-19-2009, 01:21 AM
I have owned an ultra-cut and the turbo force deck. I really like both of the decks and really do not have any complaints with either. However, I absolutely swear by my turbo force deck and I can leave really great stripes with it (it does have a striping cut), the turbo force cut quality is unmatched by any mower I have ever seen.

CowboysLawnCare
06-19-2009, 02:18 AM
I bought the Next Lazer Z about a month ago. It is 48" w/ 20h Kohler and Advantage series 4 deck. I have cut wet grass about 1-2 foot tall and never had any problems with grass clumping or getting caked under the deck. It has one of the best cuts in my opinion.

mhussey
06-19-2009, 08:19 AM
Great to see some of the Toro Turbo Force guy's come out and support this deck.

I have heard many people say that they just don't stripe well. I have never had an issue with mine not striping. If they wasn't so expensive I would love to add a roller to the rear to see the results. Maybe one day I will justify that purchace.

Let's keep this thread going here guy's.

Matt

Crazy Cutter
06-19-2009, 06:51 PM
My old man is a Toro Dealer and he just got a new G3 34/60 in stock on my request from reading on here about all the Next Lazer 34/60 owners. I love the Turbo force deck proly the most of any out there. Toro products seem to me like one the best buys for the money out there right now with the fleet pricing points being cut in half this year (6 instead of 12) and that gives an
automatic 28% discount right now. Guys here that previously had only known JD or Walker's are really coming around to Toro because of the Turbo Force deck. It's leaving just as nice as finished cut as the walkers while being 30%-40% more efficient from not bagging. I cant wait till they get the G3 out of the crate to test it out.

ToroLandscaper
06-19-2009, 07:17 PM
Great to see some of the Toro Turbo Force guy's come out and support this deck.

I have heard many people say that they just don't stripe well. I have never had an issue with mine not striping. If they wasn't so expensive I would love to add a roller to the rear to see the results. Maybe one day I will justify that purchace.

Let's keep this thread going here guy's.

Matt


http://www.harrisonspecialties.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=HS&Category_Code=Turf_Striper

You may want to check out these rollers, they are significantly cheaper. I spoke with the guy who owns/runs the business and he was extremely nice and very helpful. I am thinking of ordering a roller, because right now I have the "flap" and I have bent it all to heck.

delphied
06-19-2009, 10:45 PM
I demoed a grandstand today. It was a 52 deck with 23 HP. It never bogged down in thick wet grass but I was disappointed with stragglers and tall patches that didnt get cut good.The stripes were OK but not bold. The mower had hi lifts and I thought it would really look good but it wasnt what I expected. Any thoughts?

mhussey
06-20-2009, 01:17 AM
I demoed a grandstand today. It was a 52 deck with 23 HP. It never bogged down in thick wet grass but I was disappointed with stragglers and tall patches that didnt get cut good.The stripes were OK but not bold. The mower had hi lifts and I thought it would really look good but it wasnt what I expected. Any thoughts?

When I first got my Toro, it cut flawless. Then it was like something happened over night. I went and checked the deck pitch, and sure enough the pitch was off and my air pressure was off. Once I sat all that up, put some sharp mower blades on it cuts great.

One thing to remember, and has happened to me. Make sure the turbo baffle is set for tall grass (open), instead of short / dry grass (closed). When your in the tall stuff it will do that because the deck is processing so much grass in side it can't handle a lot of thick moist grass at one time.

You shouldn't have a problem. This thing has some serious suction. You best not get close to any trash that can be sucked up. It will suck it up and make confetti out of it.

I don't know what could be the issue. You are the only person I know to ever have an issue. Try the above, and advise back.

Matt

mhussey
06-20-2009, 01:21 AM
http://www.harrisonspecialties.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=HS&Category_Code=Turf_Striper

You may want to check out these rollers, they are significantly cheaper. I spoke with the guy who owns/runs the business and he was extremely nice and very helpful. I am thinking of ordering a roller, because right now I have the "flap" and I have bent it all to heck.


Thanks for the info. I have seen their rollers. Still, that is a pretty good chunk of money for a striping roller, when the deck stripes pretty good. Now, I did spend the money and got a Michigan seat for mine. Now that was a great investment on the machine. I don't mind paying for something that has a benefit to myself.

ToroLandscaper
06-20-2009, 01:33 AM
Thanks for the info. I have seen their rollers. Still, that is a pretty good chunk of money for a striping roller, when the deck stripes pretty good. Now, I did spend the money and got a Michigan seat for mine. Now that was a great investment on the machine. I don't mind paying for something that has a benefit to myself.

Yeah, I broke down and got a suspension seat for mine. Man the seat is a back saver!

delphied
06-20-2009, 08:05 AM
When I first got my Toro, it cut flawless. Then it was like something happened over night. I went and checked the deck pitch, and sure enough the pitch was off and my air pressure was off. Once I sat all that up, put some sharp mower blades on it cuts great.

One thing to remember, and has happened to me. Make sure the turbo baffle is set for tall grass (open), instead of short / dry grass (closed). When your in the tall stuff it will do that because the deck is processing so much grass in side it can't handle a lot of thick moist grass at one time.

You shouldn't have a problem. This thing has some serious suction. You best not get close to any trash that can be sucked up. It will suck it up and make confetti out of it.

I don't know what could be the issue. You are the only person I know to ever have an issue. Try the above, and advise back.

Matt
It was good to hear this about the baffle because I had it closed when I mowed. This was the way it was when I got it and I didnt change it. The dealer said it should have been open. Now if I buy one its on the faith of knowing that so it helps to hear it from you and that was the main reason of posting this. To confirm what the dealer told me. Thankyou.

TheUfan
06-20-2009, 03:31 PM
LCO's i just demoed the new lazer z and I put in on over 26 different accounts yesterday from a 20 acre estate to a 15000 rent house in the hood. Here is the rundown. The model was the 60 inch ultracut 6 with a 29 kawasaki. all standard equipment and side discharge. First the mower looks great. Phenomenally functional styling and design. The engineering redo from last years model is very well thought out and works great in the field. This mower is identical to the toro g3 minus the deck. Couple of key points. This mower sticks to hills without sliding. I put it on a hill with a 35 degree angle to test it. I wouldnt even think of this normally on any mower with any setup. The mower did not slide. I don't recommend doing this as a rule but it was a demo and i wanted to see what it could really do to figure out hype from reality. The new pin setup on the deck maintains stability in all directions so no more digging in and uneven cutting on hill sides. I have to say this is a great idea. The mower is very comfortable to ride on with the new iso seat which I believe is std equip. this was not the optional seat with spring ride. The mower is crazy fast. This was not an exmark selling point and really never has been. its the fastest mower ive been on, faster than the ZK and as fast as any DC out there. I'm talking fishtale around a corner, Nascar fast. The deck lift is redesigned and is effortless to raise and lower. The rops is easier to adjust and even comes down to seat height so no need to remove it other than to save weight. The controls are responsive, fluid and very well adjusted. My main problem with Badboy mowers is the learning curve on their controls if you come from another brand as I feel they are not as well adjusted as these are. The 29 kaw is quiet and isolated so no vibrations.
That said here are the negatives: The new series 6 deck while heavier duty does not cut as good as the previous decks. There is something wrong with the vacuum in the middle chamber towards the front. This creates blowout in dry conditions or when going over cuttings on solid surfaces. This is my number one pet peeve with this mower. Also the deck tends to discharge cuttings at a slight upward angle instead of straight out or down. The discharge shoot is made of hard plastic and ,if you buy this mower, will probably get ripped off or break in less than a week.(why not go with a flimsy rubber shoot like everyone else) And lastly the parking break, this routinely came undone by hitting bumps in the road. What was wrong with the previous design other than it wasn't pretty??
I am an exmark diehard and i believe i will buy another lazer z in the future. BUT i won't be buying this one until the kinks are worked out. I believe that toro will get my purchase this year.

SfTD_service_CENTER
06-20-2009, 06:25 PM
sounds like you had a dud! i beat the hell out of mine and everything you said that was wrong is not a issue to me.

supernatural
03-23-2010, 08:32 AM
I cut a little different than others, ha ha. I run a mulch kit all year and a striping roller, been doing it this way for over 15 years. Just raise the deck higher when the grass is long or wet. Don't get a roller that is the full length of the deck it will dig and scar on uneven terrain. The one I bought at Harris works great. I had a lazer Z that cut just fine with the ultra cut deck. But the dealer wouldn't cut any deals (get a new mower every 3 years) so my next mower was a Toro Z master liquid cooled diesel 60" turbo force deck. It had the 23hp Kubota diesel that was a little under powered at times. One problem was lack of power on hills, ha ha. The biggest problem was the bad cut. With new blades sharpened twice a week it would still give a bad/ripped cut. I tried every blade out there and was happy with none. All my customers are upper class and a couple asked about the cut and if my blades were sharp. I told truth that my machine was under powered and the blades aren't spinning as fast as I like. This mower needed a new radiator the first year and a new clutch the second. Had it for 3 years put 1100 hrs on it and sold it yesterday for $6000. I'm looking for a new mower now, an exmark or Toro only but will make sure in has alot more horse power. I will only buy one with a Japanese motor also. The Kohler I had on the Lazer Z back fired eveytime I shut it off no matter how low the idle was.