PDA

View Full Version : Fuel sipping Z riders?


Bunton Guy
06-12-2009, 06:46 PM
Im getting ready to add another mower to the fleet. Its going to be another 60" z rider. My basic choices due to dealers is badboy,john deere, bobcat, husqvarna & Hustler.

Most important to me is fuel. My 60" bobcat with the 23HP kawi has been awesome on fuel for the last 4 years. Its got over a 1K hours so I feel its time to make it a backup mower. I would say it gets right at an hour per gallon of fuel. I would like to find something similar.

How are the bigger motors on fuel? anyone have a chart on fuel consumption with the newer motors? Back when I got this mower 4 years ago the biggest motor was the new 30HP big block vangard & the 31HP generac
I was told by the dealer that the generac was the best on the market for fuel & power...best bang for your buck and he had never had to replace or do any major work outside of warranty covered work.

jkilov
06-12-2009, 07:00 PM
Personally I don't care much about mower fuel consumption, as long as the tanks last a full day.

Big diesel motors are the most efficient. Nosparkplugs will tell you all about it.

Liquid colling on a gas engine will lover consumption. Even more with fuel injection, though it's a tad expensive.

The worst reports I've heard were for the 34/37hp vertical kawa. People claiming 1.5-2.0gph.

Mike Blevins
06-12-2009, 07:10 PM
Im getting ready to add another mower to the fleet. Its going to be another 60" z rider. My basic choices due to dealers is badboy,john deere, bobcat, husqvarna & Hustler.

Most important to me is fuel. My 60" bobcat with the 23HP kawi has been awesome on fuel for the last 4 years. Its got over a 1K hours so I feel its time to make it a backup mower. I would say it gets right at an hour per gallon of fuel. I would like to find something similar.

How are the bigger motors on fuel? anyone have a chart on fuel consumption with the newer motors? Back when I got this mower 4 years ago the biggest motor was the new 30HP big block vangard & the 31HP generac
I was told by the dealer that the generac was the best on the market for fuel & power...best bang for your buck and he had never had to replace or do any major work outside of warranty covered work.
Why not get another Bobcat??????

Linder'sLawnCare
06-12-2009, 07:24 PM
Go with diesel or LC Kaw. I know Kaw tends to be better on fuel. My 21 kaw gets abt .8 gallons per hour.

Bunton Guy
06-12-2009, 07:25 PM
I never ruled out the bobcat....not yet.
The dealer that has the hustlers has bobcat.

puppypaws
06-12-2009, 07:44 PM
I never ruled out the bobcat....not yet.
The dealer that has the hustlers has bobcat.

Are you talking about Whitley in Monroe?

johnnybravo8802
06-12-2009, 11:30 PM
Kawi 29 DFI.

TomberLawn
06-13-2009, 01:32 AM
My Woods (Bobcat built) with 33hp Generac and 61" deck burns 1.3 gallons per hour. Puppypaws can vouch for it's power--it smoked a Bad Boy 28hp Cat in high grass. And, the Generac-powered Predator Pros go faster than the Kawi-powered mowers, according to manufacturer specs. I saw in a previous post by Puppypaws that Whitley's has a diesel Hustler Super Z at a great price. That would be good on fuel, and I like a Shibaura diesel. Shibaura makes the smaller Case IH Farmall series tractors and New Holland Boomer tractors.

Bunton Guy
06-13-2009, 10:02 AM
Are you talking about Whitley in Monroe?

Yes that's where I get most of my parts if I don't get them online.

Keith
06-13-2009, 02:08 PM
How about the Hustler with the 28 EFI Kohler?

puppypaws
06-13-2009, 07:34 PM
My Woods (Bobcat built) with 33hp Generac and 61" deck burns 1.3 gallons per hour. Puppypaws can vouch for it's power--it smoked a Bad Boy 28hp Cat in high grass. And, the Generac-powered Predator Pros go faster than the Kawi-powered mowers, according to manufacturer specs. I saw in a previous post by Puppypaws that Whitley's has a diesel Hustler Super Z at a great price. That would be good on fuel, and I like a Shibaura diesel. Shibaura makes the smaller Case IH Farmall series tractors and New Holland Boomer tractors.

My 28 efi used .93 gph when I checked it in normal cutting, not heavy cutting.

My Woods (Bobcat built) with 33hp Generac and 61" deck burns 1.3 gallons per hour. Puppypaws can vouch for it's power--it smoked a Bad Boy 28hp Cat in high grass. And, the Generac-powered Predator Pros go faster than the Kawi-powered mowers, according to manufacturer specs.

At 1.3 gph this is the best engine for the money out there. This Woods mower is a Bobcat Predator Pro (identical), you could not believe the power of this engine unless you experienced it. What you would consider very heavy cutting, this engine pays no attention. The reason it probably gets such good fuel economy is because of its design and it is idling through normal cutting. The big block Kawasaki's want touch this fuel economy and are no more powerful. The 33 Generac on a Predator Pro is a 13.5 mph mower, but when you move to the 37 Kawasaki they drop it to 12.4. I wish someone could explain this change.

djagusch
06-13-2009, 07:44 PM
Has anyone looked at the price of gas to the percent of sales. Mine last year was a little under 3 percent for the mowers and 12 percent for my trucks (this includes plowing and it's sales). This was at a record high for gas prices. My mower is running around 1.25 gph

What are your expected savings from 2 gph going to 1 gp not much when you look at the grand scheme of things.

Keith
06-13-2009, 09:13 PM
I have looked at it. For a small operation racking up a total of 40 hours of cutting a week, a machine burning 1 gallon per hour would save about 30 bucks a week in fuel vs. one burning 1.3 gallons per hour. Figuring at $2.65 a gallon. Not a huge amount, but a savings of at least $120 a month for six months, and maybe half that the other six months. The issue is really looking down the road. If you are burning 12 gallons more a week, the extra expense would be considerable if gas were $5 a gallon or more. That's why it matters.

djagusch
06-13-2009, 09:32 PM
I would think more time worrying about labor savings would put more money in the pocket. I would say the difference in fuel isn't going to win or lose a bid either. It would only save a very small percentage of your gross. But if the mower can decrease labor even with a increase of gph it would be a better investment.

I guess my point is that if you are worried about gph your routes need to be really tight, employees are always on task, and the mower your looking at (with the lower gph) is more productive. Otherwise it is a moot point.

IRRITECH
06-13-2009, 09:54 PM
It would only save a very small percentage of your gross.

Microscopic

tacoma200
06-13-2009, 09:55 PM
Im getting ready to add another mower to the fleet. Its going to be another 60" z rider. My basic choices due to dealers is badboy,john deere, bobcat, husqvarna & Hustler.

Most important to me is fuel. My 60" bobcat with the 23HP kawi has been awesome on fuel for the last 4 years. Its got over a 1K hours so I feel its time to make it a backup mower. I would say it gets right at an hour per gallon of fuel. I would like to find something similar.

How are the bigger motors on fuel? anyone have a chart on fuel consumption with the newer motors? Back when I got this mower 4 years ago the biggest motor was the new 30HP big block vangard & the 31HP generac
I was told by the dealer that the generac was the best on the market for fuel & power...best bang for your buck and he had never had to replace or do any major work outside of warranty covered work.

If fuel is your main concern the the Hustler 28 is the clear winner ( I doubt the 29 Kaw would match it). Should be a great machine for that area. Call Puppypaws up, he could probably get you a great deal and tell you all you want to know about this machine. Carburated Kawasaki's seem to be the worst fuel wise.

DAR57
06-14-2009, 09:34 PM
Running Super Z 30HP Kohler w/60" XR7-I got between .7 & .8GPH all year last year. Checked it all the time. Very consistent. Same in the beginning of summer this year. Have just added flex forks and running Gators so I cant tell you right now but need to check this week. I will find out if it has changed.

Keith
06-14-2009, 10:55 PM
So you are getting 18 hours or so between fill-ups? That's just amazing.

puppypaws
06-15-2009, 12:31 AM
Running Super Z 30HP Kohler w/60" XR7-I got between .7 & .8GPH all year last year. Checked it all the time. Very consistent. Same in the beginning of summer this year. Have just added flex forks and running Gators so I cant tell you right now but need to check this week. I will find out if it has changed.

Your 30 hp Kohler is getting better fuel economy than my 28 efi Kohler, that is truly amazing!

SfTD_service_CENTER
06-15-2009, 12:44 AM
my kawi is at about 2.2 gph lol if not more!:usflag:

Pat Daniels
06-15-2009, 03:13 AM
I use a new 60 inch Exmark ultra cut series 6 with a 29 horse kaw. The last 3 times I checked I got 1.64, 1.71. 1.61 gallons per hour. All conditions.

retrodog
06-15-2009, 02:01 PM
When you look at the Bad Boy, I would stronly recommend the lc 26hp kawa, or the horizontal 27hp kawa, they are getting really good fuel rates......, and not to mention the $7695 to $8895 price points BB offers in that range with the easy ride suspension and the michigan seat standard, I know you will be pleased with the BB

Keith
06-15-2009, 10:27 PM
Out of curiosity, how bad are the big block Vanguards on fuel?

puppypaws
06-15-2009, 10:50 PM
Out of curiosity, how bad are the big block Vanguards on fuel?

From what I've heard they are doing well.

I was asked to post when I got the results of the fuel usage of the new 35 hp Briggs. I used 6 gallons of fuel at 4.3 hours which works to 1.39 gallons per hour. This was not lugging the engine though the grass I was cutting would lug the average engine pretty hard. So far it has sliced through very thick moist grass very easily. So far so good.

35 Briggs turf tiger

Keith
06-15-2009, 10:54 PM
That's not bad. Not much different than my 27 Kohler.

puppypaws
06-15-2009, 11:06 PM
That's not bad. Not much different than my 27 Kohler.

The 27 may use more if you keep it in real heavy cutting constantly. What is real heavy cutting to the 27 is very easy work for the big block Vanguard, the 31 to 35 is extremely strong.

JABBERS
07-03-2009, 01:12 PM
I've heard from many guys that the 35hp Cat that BB offers uses 0.66 gal. of fuel per hour. :weightlifter:

RedSquareLandscaping
07-03-2009, 01:23 PM
In my oppinion just get one with a large enough gas tank.
Possibly a JD or a or if you want look at Troy Built

JABBERS
07-03-2009, 02:29 PM
I would stay away from troy built if your looking for a commercial mower.

RedSquareLandscaping
07-03-2009, 03:56 PM
IDK just a thought

JABBERS
07-03-2009, 05:36 PM
Im getting ready to add another mower to the fleet. Its going to be another 60" z rider. My basic choices due to dealers is badboy,john deere, bobcat, husqvarna & Hustler.

Most important to me is fuel. My 60" bobcat with the 23HP kawi has been awesome on fuel for the last 4 years. Its got over a 1K hours so I feel its time to make it a backup mower. I would say it gets right at an hour per gallon of fuel. I would like to find something similar.

How are the bigger motors on fuel? anyone have a chart on fuel consumption with the newer motors? Back when I got this mower 4 years ago the biggest motor was the new 30HP big block vangard & the 31HP generac
I was told by the dealer that the generac was the best on the market for fuel & power...best bang for your buck and he had never had to replace or do any major work outside of warranty covered work.

With that choice of dealers I would go Bad Boy. I would demo of course. But for the money where could you go wrong. I'm in the process of getting one to demo.

Quality Cuts Landscaping
07-03-2009, 07:01 PM
I'm debating pulling the trigger on a Bad Boy 52" 26lc. Does anybody have any figures for mpg on this? Also not to high jack the thread but does anybody regret going with a 52" as opposed to 60-61?

puppypaws
07-03-2009, 08:09 PM
I'm debating pulling the trigger on a Bad Boy 52" 26lc. Does anybody have any figures for mpg on this? Also not to high jack the thread but does anybody regret going with a 52" as opposed to 60-61?

What size area or areas will you be mowing the largest percentage of the time? A 60" deck handles as well as a 52" does to me, my 66" deck handles as well as all the 60" decks I've owned, and the 72" deck handles as well to me as any I've mentioned.

I guess it comes down to a matter of preference. I just demoed a 3100 Ferris with a 72" deck that handled and rode as well as anything on the market. The 72" deck did not attempt to scalp, or cut anything uneven.

Just a guess, but I would say the 26 L/C would be in the 1.2 gph range on average.

Pietro
07-03-2009, 08:19 PM
I would stick with the bobcat, this way you can stock parts for both mowers, and when one dies it will become a doner for parts.

MONTE
07-03-2009, 08:55 PM
Acres per hour is better with a big block unit!

Quality Cuts Landscaping
07-03-2009, 10:15 PM
I had a 52" Ferris in the past then traded it in for a 61" IS3100. I got out of the business for a couple years but am now trying to build it back. I have all of my equipment including a 33" walk behind. I thought I would stick with just that but it's killing me on the couple of large yards I have.

My Ferris dealer which is great now carries Bad Boy too. I got to mow a little a few days ago on the 52" 26lc. I like it. I just don't want to regret not going bigger. I know nobody can answer my question but me but just wondering if anybody spicifically bought a 52" and later wished they went bigger.

Thanks,

Rick

SfTD_service_CENTER
07-03-2009, 10:18 PM
if it willl fit on your yards you have now why not buy it!

puppypaws
07-03-2009, 10:24 PM
I had a 52" Ferris in the past then traded it in for a 61" IS3100. I got out of the business for a couple years but am now trying to build it back. I have all of my equipment including a 33" walk behind. I thought I would stick with just that but it's killing me on the couple of large yards I have.

My Ferris dealer which is great now carries Bad Boy too. I got to mow a little a few days ago on the 52" 26lc. I like it. I just don't want to regret not going bigger. I know nobody can answer my question but me but just wondering if anybody spicifically bought a 52" and later wished they went bigger.

Thanks,

Rick

What is wrong with the 3100 Ferris?

Quality Cuts Landscaping
07-03-2009, 11:57 PM
Sorry, I was doing too many things at once. I was not clear earlier. When I stopped the business before I had to sell the Ferris. I hated to part with it but could not justify the payments when it stopped making me money. All I have now is a 33" Worldlawn. It gets the job done on small yards but I am unhappy with the time it takes me to do a couple larger yards.
I planned on just getting by with that this season but more and more I'm feeling the urge to buy another ztr. Bad Boy seems to be very good for the money and I am very happy with the dealer.

retrodog
07-04-2009, 12:48 AM
I had a 52" Ferris in the past then traded it in for a 61" IS3100. I got out of the business for a couple years but am now trying to build it back. I have all of my equipment including a 33" walk behind. I thought I would stick with just that but it's killing me on the couple of large yards I have.

My Ferris dealer which is great now carries Bad Boy too. I got to mow a little a few days ago on the 52" 26lc. I like it. I just don't want to regret not going bigger. I know nobody can answer my question but me but just wondering if anybody spicifically bought a 52" and later wished they went bigger.

Thanks,

Rick
I have a 52" and a 60" lightning. The 26hp gets between 1 and 1.5 (never actually checked it because I knew it was good). The only difference is the 52" doesn't have as much "trim room" because the shocks stick out just as far as the deck does. Doesn't matter much unless you do a lot of fence rows. The 60" will trim better, and you get an extra pass every 5. There is a place for both on my rig, the 52" is what I mow my high end accounts with (we have a bagger system for it too). Atleast the front yard gets the 52", and the back and sides we unload the 72" and 60" for the wide open stuff.

nosparkplugs
07-04-2009, 01:54 AM
"Fuel sipping ZTR's" & gasoline engines I would say as the engine's CC increase the argument for a Big Block gasburner is weaker

SfTD_service_CENTER
07-04-2009, 04:45 AM
nah just put some oil in the gas! then it is a oil burner!

or run some atf !

nosparkplugs
07-04-2009, 12:38 PM
EFI over Carb, Liquid cooling over Air cooled, Diesel over Gasoline. Get out your checkbook, and purchase what you can afford, we all have our own definition of fuel economy. If you can afford the note, you can afford to put fuel in it.

Advancing fuel injection systems for off road small engines would solve many of the issues with poor or marginal fuel economy. However as always profit margins come over reducing our dependency on foreign oil.

Just standardizing/mandating EFI requirements with all off-road engines would help fuel economy for all, but it would reduce the price of the EFI engines, and that would hurt these engine manufacture's profit's.

SfTD_service_CENTER
07-04-2009, 12:52 PM
i get motor magazine and it shows new engines that use 2 pistons to do 4 strokes between both of them, taking the first piston it does intake and compression then sends the that over to the the other piston where it does power and exauhst! really neat stuff it was said the design has been arround for 100 years but now with technology it is being perfected, they are saying same numbers as diesel for smaller displacement by 30% and the hp ratings are huge along with the torque rating so the engines arent slugish but peppy like small normally aspirated 4 cyl gas. car manufacturers are doing extensive testing with this design toyota and bmw were the two main ones i think. if you interested in motor magazine

http://www.motor.com/category.asp?category=magazine

has very good writing and is very informative about the way the industry is moving, plus gives tips on troubleshooting new cars with unfixable problems. i think you would like it!

nosparkplugs
07-04-2009, 01:19 PM
went to the link, tried to find the article your talking about, Where is it??? within the link????, cause their is just to much stuff to search through





i get motor magazine and it shows new engines that use 2 pistons to do 4 strokes between both of them, taking the first piston it does intake and compression then sends the that over to the the other piston where it does power and exauhst! really neat stuff it was said the design has been arround for 100 years but now with technology it is being perfected, they are saying same numbers as diesel for smaller displacement by 30% and the hp ratings are huge along with the torque rating so the engines arent slugish but peppy like small normally aspirated 4 cyl gas. car manufacturers are doing extensive testing with this design toyota and bmw were the two main ones i think. if you interested in motor magazine

http://www.motor.com/category.asp?category=magazine

has very good writing and is very informative about the way the industry is moving, plus gives tips on troubleshooting new cars with unfixable problems. i think you would like it!

SfTD_service_CENTER
07-04-2009, 01:32 PM
i couldnt find it either?!?!! i was so sure it was motor mag but i guess after i couldnt find it either that i am wrong! i dont know any names of any other magazines lol i wish i could have found it you would have liked to read it, i have the magazine somwhere at my shop if i find it i will get you the article online or if it comes down to it ill mail it out to you.

SfTD_service_CENTER
07-04-2009, 01:36 PM
http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=1423

its not the article i wanted to show you but somthing worth reading if your bored

SfTD_service_CENTER
07-04-2009, 01:43 PM
http://www.rotoblock.com/howitworks.shtml

http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/050302.html

http://forums.trucktrend.com/70/6423866/diesel-trucks/gms-radical-2009-diesel-engine-design/index.html

these are from my quest to find the scuderi! which i have found

SfTD_service_CENTER
07-04-2009, 01:44 PM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124025229305035879.html

this is just a small article that relates to what i wanted to show you, i will search for more info and pics

SfTD_service_CENTER
07-04-2009, 01:47 PM
http://www.scuderigroup.com/

this is what it is and it explains everything about it! i couldnt remeber the name but when i stumbled accross it while browsing a article it sparked in my mind as i need to search that name and yup split cycle engine! is the design and scuderi is the name

nosparkplugs
07-04-2009, 03:43 PM
Interesting engine, its basically using one cylinder to compress the air, with a tube to store that compressed air & cool it before using it in the combustion cycle, and the second cylinder is the only combustion cylinder/piston. According to their press release it is going to be marketed towards the Hybrid car industry, and the rest is open to the speculators.

Their are two weakness the Scuder engine has 1.) breathing 2.) thermal efficiency. These issues are being worked out. The Scuder engine is claiming to be the best of both worlds in regards to the Diesel VS Gasoline debate.

jkilov
07-04-2009, 06:03 PM
Just a guess, but I would say the 26 L/C would be in the 1.2 gph range on average.
You're a good guesser puppypaws, mine uses 1.1-1.3gph.

There is potential technology on hand today, like theAtkinson cycle gasser on the prius, and 6-stroke diesels on the drawing board.

SfTD_service_CENTER
07-04-2009, 08:16 PM
the key to better engines seems to be about the revolution of the crank shaft, yamaha just started using a split crank in their new r1 motorcycle and it is said to increase low end torque alot. the scuderi does in 1 revolution as a normal 4 stroke motor does in 2 revolutions. pretty cool i hope it makes great fuel economy and they put it on my exmark! then i dont have to buy 12 gllons of gas for it every day lol

nosparkplugs
07-04-2009, 09:28 PM
I hope your joking about burning 12 gallons of gas everyday in your Exmark. I would get nauseated burning that much fuel.

As far as Yamaha engine technology goes, their using an "uneven firing order" I would not call it a split crank.


Crossplane technology has been used in V8 engines for some time, but expensive. New advances in metal forging has made Crossplane technology affordable for the public.

Quote from Yamaha:
In the supersport liter class, there’s always lots of talk about power. You expect that. What you wouldn’t have expected – until now – is a radically superior way to deliver that power. Introducing the 2009 YZF-R1, the first ever production motorcycle with a crossplane crankshaft. Crossplane technology, first pioneered in MotoGP racing with the M1, puts each connecting rod 90° from the next, with an uneven firing interval of 270°- 180°- 90°- 180°. This all but eliminates undesirable inertial crankshaft torque, which allows the engine’s compression torque to build smoothly and provide a very linear power delivery out of the corners. It’s a feeling that’s simply unmatched, like having two engines in one: the low-rpm torquey feel of a twin with the raw, high-rpm power of an inline 4. In fact, the new YZF-R1 is not a continuation of existing supersport development; it is breakthrough technology that represents a paradigm shift in both technology and performance.

the key to better engines seems to be about the revolution of the crank shaft, yamaha just started using a split crank in their new r1 motorcycle and it is said to increase low end torque alot. the scuderi does in 1 revolution as a normal 4 stroke motor does in 2 revolutions. pretty cool i hope it makes great fuel economy and they put it on my exmark! then i dont have to buy 12 gllons of gas for it every day lol

SfTD_service_CENTER
07-05-2009, 11:02 AM
yeah your right crosplane was what i meant, and i know its been arround for a while. what i dont get is why they think that running pistons a certain way is a breakthrough lol technology gets cheaper as time goes on so now they just borrowed from a design they had sitting on a shelf becuae they could afford to mass produce it from certain parts now being really cheap. i think it would be somthing for other manufacturers to look at, it could also provide a answer to running a comercial engine at a lower rpm possibly to save some extra on fuel.

kb9nvh
07-14-2009, 06:58 PM
First tank on my BB 1.5gal/hr

puppypaws
07-14-2009, 10:54 PM
First tank on my BB 1.5gal/hr

Was that mowing the big junk in the pictures on that tank also?

kb9nvh
07-15-2009, 11:17 AM
Yes, but that didn't account for much of the hours on the clock though.

Was that mowing the big junk in the pictures on that tank also?

puppypaws
07-15-2009, 04:49 PM
Yes, but that didn't account for much of the hours on the clock though.

It should get a little better as it loosens up some, but that is not bad really!

Keith
07-29-2009, 06:06 PM
Well, I have to say, I am pretty impressed with the 27 Kohler lately. I had not checked it regularly since the first year I owned it. Sometimes it would be down around 1.2 gph, sometimes over 1.4.

I had to put a new carb on in last month, and decided I would track the fuel use for a while. Apparently they do get much better after break-in. I filled it up and mowed for 4 days and then refilled. I looked at the gallons and hours and they were almost exactly the same. I thought, "oh, this can't be right." Must not have gotten it as full as before.

So a few days later I returned to refill. Same story. I always buy my gas from the same place, even the same pump. Hmmmm. Maybe that first tank was not an anomaly. So I have tracked it for 58.1 hours now and it has used a total of 60.2 gallons of gas. Or about 1.04 gph on a 60" Super Z. This was during our heaviest growth period of the year.

RedSquareLandscaping
08-25-2009, 08:24 PM
i like the 27 Kohler