Commercial instal questions....

[esnipe8]

Moved from commercial side....

Hey guys.

I am going to be starting my "first" commercial job next Wed. I have done a few others but not anything that will be plumbed and covered by a parking lot.
I am planning on all irrigation that will be covered by pavement to be ran in sleeves that our twice the diameter of the main/laterals.
Does that sound right?
The only thing that is different to me is plumbing all the irrigation inside of the sleeves. Ex. running a lateral line parallel to a concrete planter then t-ing into it. Basically double plumbing, right?!? Then once into the planter we will be installing deep root bubblers, etc.

I think this is the same way that I have plumbed for pots sitting on concrete. Ran 3" sewer drainline, and 1/2" inside the drainline.

Does that make sense to anyone???

Thanks,

Evan

[EagleLandscape]

yes, sleeves always need to be a minimum of 2x size of pipe that is carrying the water. also, i like to run 2 sleeves side by side, in the event that one gets crushed in the process of construction.

[Tony Clifton]

Why do you say the sleeves have to be 2x the size?

[Stuttering Stan]

Why do you say the sleeves have to be 2x the size?
Good question. Why do you need so much wiggle room? As long as the pipe can slide into the sleeve that's all that counts.

[AI Inc]

We have always used 4" for all parking lot sleeves. More habbit then anything.

[Kiril]

I agree with Tony and Stan. The only reason for allowing for more room is so you can run more pipe through it.

[Tony Clifton]

We pretty much stick to 2" & 4". Keep it simple, I used to use a little bit of everything.

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

One thing I always did in addition to running the sleeves was go ahead and run my irrigation pipes and wire at the same time. Then glue on elbows and run them 4' or so above ground level, spray paint the crap out of them with orange fluorescent and tell the GC what they are and are not to be tampered with. Also run your wires as well. It will never be easier or faster than when you are putting in those sleeves. Hunting for lost sleeves is a nightmare and then digging entry ditches is a PIB when you could have just done it when the sleeves were being put in.

[EagleLandscape]

the next size pipe won't be enough incase there is a belled end in the pipe..

thats what we do anyways, typically x2 4" sleeves under everything.

there was a job where my dad designed a looped 8" mainline system....
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=frankford+and+coit+dallas+tx&sll=37.509726,-95.712891&sspn=38.083599,93.164063&ie=UTF8&ll=32.99568,-96.763523&spn=0.004958,0.011373&t=h&z=17&iwloc=A

[bicmudpuppy]

Sleeves 2x pipe size is a given. Your not going to get a 1" bell to go through a 1.5" pipe and if you do, your not going to get it and another one past the joints in the sleeve. Just like your not going to get a 3" bell through a 4" joint. Sleeve would have to be 6". Also, if there is ANY way to keep mainline out from under hard surface, DO IT. And 2x isn't going to be enough if your running wire in the same sleeve as the pressure pipe. In other words, your not going to push a lot of wire w/ a 2" pipe inside a 4" sleeve. 1" pipe and wire will be much more comfortable in a 3" sleeve. The 2" w/ wires would be ok but tight in a 4. If you want to be able to service it, jump up to 6".

[Waterlogged]

Well I guess I will agree with Peter again, is he right all the time? My first large job I put all my pipe and wire in the sleeves when I installed the sleeves, it really saves alot of time. And I was able to pipe all the islands before they backfilled because I knew the dirt guy. But If you don't know who is doing the backfill it could be a disaster.

[Mike Leary]

But If you don't know who is doing the backfill it could be a disaster.

Yup, they can screw you if you don't stay on top of it and it should be factored into the bid so you don't get get the "surprise".

[FIMCO-MEISTER]

Well I guess I will agree with Peter again, is he right all the time? My first large job I put all my pipe and wire in the sleeves when I installed the sleeves, it really saves alot of time. And I was able to pipe all the islands before they backfilled because I knew the dirt guy. But If you don't know who is doing the backfill it could be a disaster.

I think it is called the school of hard knocks and a willingness to learn and adapt. You did it right on your first job...I didn't.

[esnipe8]

Well I guess I will agree with Peter again, is he right all the time? My first large job I put all my pipe and wire in the sleeves when I installed the sleeves, it really saves alot of time. And I was able to pipe all the islands before they backfilled because I knew the dirt guy. But If you don't know who is doing the backfill it could be a disaster.

Yea thats what my plan was. I am going to run the 1" main and 5 strand in a 3" sleeve.

Im real frustrated with this project. The owner is one of those guys who asks for the world but wants to pay pennies. I gave him the proposal for the job, he sent the plans back to the arch/engineer to "dumb it down". This guy is nuts. He only want the mainline to be sleeved! None of the laterals under pavement will be sleeved! I told him that, that was not even close to industry standards.
I told him that the only way I would do this job is if the arch/engineer changed and had the plans approved. Then I would follow the plans as spec-ed out.
All this to save $4500 :laugh:

We start tomorrow!!!

[Waterlogged]

I would not start without a signed contract, and make sure everbody is on the same page on what you are going to do before you start. And I would put in the contract that there will be extra charges for any repairs on any pipe not in sleeves. Or I would insist on all pipe in sleeves. No guarantee on any pipe not in sleeves. Just my two cents

[esnipe8]

I would not start without a signed contract, and make sure everbody is on the same page on what you are going to do before you start. And I would put in the contract that there will be extra charges for any repairs on any pipe not in sleeves. Or I would insist on all pipe in sleeves. No guarantee on any pipe not in sleeves. Just my two cents

Yea we had a meeting monday with the owners, the engineers assistant, paving company and the general contractor. A real conference meeting, not an in the field quickie. I laid it all out on the table. The engineers assistant told me that the would make all the changes on the construction plan, and stamp/seal it. Not much more I can do then follow the plan :confused:

I could draw up a simple contract, but all the local guys I talk to tell me that if I follow the engineers plan, then thats all I can do.

[TRILAWNCARE]

Yea we had a meeting monday with the owners, the engineers assistant, paving company and the general contractor. A real conference meeting, not an in the field quickie. I laid it all out on the table. The engineers assistant told me that the would make all the changes on the construction plan, and stamp/seal it. Not much more I can do then follow the plan :confused:

I could draw up a simple contract, but all the local guys I talk to tell me that if I follow the engineers plan, then thats all I can do.

I think I would still do a contract, to cover your butt. That way there is no, he said, she said going on about anything. Including the price.

[DanaMac]

Since this thread is about sleeves, I have one request.
Never. NEVER NEVER NEVER use friggin corrugated drain pipe as a sleeve. My tech just finished repairing a broken (freeze damaged) 1" PVC mainline in a 3" corrugated pipe/sleeve under a driveway. Pretty sure the drain pipe collapsed or was crushed.

When pulling out the PVC it was getting caught, and 2/3 of the way out it snapped apart. PVC was half Sch. 40, half Class 200. He converted to poly. But when feeding it back into the pipe/sleeve, when it came out on the other end, it was not coming out of the sleeve. It came out OUTSIDE the pipe/sleeve.

It must have either been cut and damaged, or it was coupled under the driveway and came apart.

[gusbuster]

We just did a repair at one of the Apt complexes my uncle maintains. We replaced a 1 1/2 service line that was cracked from an earlier re-pavement of the parking lot which was undermining the parking lot.

The cost:

Our cost, if it was exposed or in a sleeve would of stayed under $200 to replace 20 ft of 1 1/2 sch 40 pipe.

Because under road way, we had to hire an outside boring company to do a new 4 " bore shot, sleeve pipe bore shot & labor over $5000, plus the tenants couldn't use their parking spots

All this because when property was re-landscaped and new irrigation installed, the contractor was going to charge an extra $100 for the sleeve and the property owner thought that it was too much.

Paving company insurance won't cover the cost because it was an un-marked hazard.

[esnipe8]

Since this thread is about sleeves, I have one request.
Never. NEVER NEVER NEVER use friggin corrugated drain pipe as a sleeve. My tech just finished repairing a broken (freeze damaged) 1" PVC mainline in a 3" corrugated pipe/sleeve under a driveway. Pretty sure the drain pipe collapsed or was crushed.

When pulling out the PVC it was getting caught, and 2/3 of the way out it snapped apart. PVC was half Sch. 40, half Class 200. He converted to poly. But when feeding it back into the pipe/sleeve, when it came out on the other end, it was not coming out of the sleeve. It came out OUTSIDE the pipe/sleeve.

It must have either been cut and damaged, or it was coupled under the driveway and came apart.

That is too funny. We dont even use the corrugated crap for drains anymore. Only white 3"sewer pipe. It is actually a little cheaper than the flexible stuff.