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MikeKle
06-15-2009, 11:33 AM
This has probably been posted before, but I thought Id give it another try. Im curious what everyone uses in their mowers. Ive always used Pennzoil 10W30 just because that is what my dealer puts in all his mowers and Ive always thought it best to keep using the same brand name. Ive tried full synthetic before but I thought the engine ran "different" so I went back to regular, but I would like to use full synthetic for its benefits. Someone once told me that if you have to add engine oil, you have to add the same brand name oil, not just the same weight!, I always thought as long as it was the same weight, the brand name didnt matter, but I was way wrong!

Heintooga
06-15-2009, 11:43 AM
I've always used Castrol HD30 and never had any probs.

tjlco
06-15-2009, 11:53 AM
I have used supertech (yes walmart brand) 30w oil for 5 years. Along with changing oil at the right time and keeping the air filter clean, I have 3900 hours on a 23 horse air cooled kawasaki, (scag 52 tiger cub)

HighGrass
06-15-2009, 11:56 AM
Penzoil HD30. If I can find it.

JKOOPERS
06-15-2009, 12:36 PM
Valvoline HD 30 also use Valvoline in my truck

ferris09
06-15-2009, 12:38 PM
MikeKle, you were not way wrong. In the past there were some confusion as to the compatibility of oils that went as far as the warranty being covered. Brand oil does not matter at all but the composition of that brand does. Used to the word was never add synthetic oil to normal oil, the misconception was that the earlier synthetic oils did not have the same additives as the normal oil and would create leaks, NOW the synthetic oils are better engineered as well as the engine components are better to accept the synthetic oils. As far as warranty is concerned now warranty can be denied due to changing brands of oil from that the manufacturer recommends as long as it meets the required composition. There is a reason why there is such a variance in the prices of oils from different manufacturers (composition). Synthetic oils have a great advantage over dino (normal) in normal wear on an engine. The real key is to ensure your oil is clean (by regular changes), think of the oil as the blood of the engine, just like your blood it needs to be maintained properly for you to be healthy.

DaddyRabbit
06-15-2009, 12:52 PM
Royal Purple 15w40 synthetic in my diesels. In my gassers I prefer Royal Purple 10w30 or 40 but have wandered into the Amsoil camp occasionally.

kaferhaus
06-15-2009, 01:38 PM
Synthetic oil only has one advantage that really applies to the engines in most mowers and that is it's ability to withstand the effects of heat.

What causes abnormal wear in enignes is contamination which is a by-product of combustion and failure to change the oil at the proper interval. Synthetics do nothing to prevent or even cope with contamination. The oil filter (on engines so equipped) lessens the problem by trapping many of the particles.

If you live in a very high temperature region or are "forgetfull" about changing the oil when it should be then a syn might be beneficial.

Under ordinary use with regular oil changes dino oil is just fine and syn oil is a waste of money.

Engines without oil filters should NOT run synthetic crankcase oil. To my knwledge there are no sythetics that do not contain detergents. Those engines should be run with non detergent oil as there's no filter to trap the particles that the detergents break down in the engine and those particles end up being splashed all over the bearings causing pre-mature engine failure.

Detergent oils = good in filtered systems, BAD in non filtered systems. We own a lot of small equipment with Honda commercial engines... the manual for everyone of them specify NON detergent oil.

ferris09
06-15-2009, 01:55 PM
Good points kaferhaus, but one point that neither us pointed out is that synthetics have a molecular structure which helps with early break down of the oil and to lessen the shear effects on the oil. So the benefits are not just towards the carbon contamination but also the actual break down of the oil's ability to cushion and it's lubricity. So the synthetic oil is a little more forgiving for those who "forget" to change their oil regularly.

scagman52
06-15-2009, 02:06 PM
I use Pennzoil 30 weight for 4 cycle air cooled small engines. I get it at Advance Auto. 1000 hrs on my tiger cub and no problems so far!

topsites
06-15-2009, 02:10 PM
Cheapest 10w-30 full synthetic I can find.

Synthetic oil only has one advantage that really applies to the engines in most mowers and that is it's ability to withstand the effects of heat.

Correct, synthetic doesn't thin out like dino, however this also translates to
protection in instances of oil starvation, such as when running on an incline.

Under ordinary use with regular oil changes dino oil is just fine and syn oil is a waste of money.

I don't consider the use of my machines ordinary.

Engines without oil filters should NOT run synthetic crankcase oil. To my knwledge there are no sythetics that do not contain detergents. Those engines should be run with non detergent oil as there's no filter to trap the particles that the detergents break down in the engine and those particles end up being splashed all over the bearings causing pre-mature engine failure.

Detergent oils = good in filtered systems, BAD in non filtered systems. We own a lot of small equipment with Honda commercial engines... the manual for everyone of them specify NON detergent oil.

Now this is good stuff, thank you!

kaferhaus
06-15-2009, 02:32 PM
I don't consider the use of my machines ordinary.


You may not, but it is. Unless you're doing something absurd those engines are being used as designed.

Oil starvation.... might be a edge there but I'd bet it's very slight. I don't risk such situations anyway. If the slope is over the design recommendations of the manufacturer I use the proper equipment for the job.

I can see the benefits of synthetic crankcase oil for over the road trucks with extended oil change intervals and the same for highway vehicles that are primarily used for cross country driving.

At the 50-100hr intervals that air-cooled engines need it's a waste of money.

Wizz
06-15-2009, 02:49 PM
I use Castrol SAE 30...or Valvoline SAE 30 if the Castrol is not available. The Castrol seems to pour thicker and has a good detergent package for my filtered motor is why I 'prefer' it...but most oils these days are good quality.

barlowlawncare
06-15-2009, 03:06 PM
ive always been told once you go to synthetic you could never go back to regular so im not sure it's wise to switch to syn then switch back?

kaferhaus
06-15-2009, 03:07 PM
ive always been told once you go to synthetic you could never go back to regular so im not sure it's wise to switch to syn then switch back?

Old wives tale, switch any which way you want.

Exact Rototilling
06-15-2009, 03:15 PM
:laugh:"....snip.....
Detergent oils = good in filtered systems, BAD in non filtered systems. We own a lot of small equipment with Honda commercial engines... the manual for everyone of them specify NON detergent oil.:eek:


These "what kind of oil threads" are amusing just like the Ford, Chevy, Dodge & Toyota debates.

I just checked my Honda manual for my GX-25's, GX-31 and the bigger GX-160 GX-200 and the GX-340. Absolutely nothing in there about using a "non detergent oil". It does specify using SJ or SL rated engine oil which just happens to be an actual detergent rated oil.

The only oil I know of that is non-detergent is SA rated. FWIW if I was buying ANY used power equipment and I found out the user was using SA and/or non-detergent oil I would turn on my heels and run immediately. :nono:

What I use in my Honda GX-340 powered snow thrower is Castrol Syntec 0w-30 "German Castrol" one of the very few oils you can by that is a TRUE SL, SJ rated oil. Exactly what Honda calls for. This oil is very popular in the European Car market and rated for diesel use.

I use Rotella 5w-40 CI-4 rated "older Formula" in all my power equipment. Also rated for gas engines. Newer version is CJ rated but doesn't have the proven track record of the old CI-4 version.

All my power equipment is due for an oil change. But this time I'm going to use Delo 400 15w-40 and change it out earlier than normal and go back to Rotella 5w-40 Synthetic.

Other well rated off the shelf oils are Mobil 1 High Mileage 10w-30 and 10w-40 ....yes they have higher levels of anti wear additives than the the plain vanilla Mobil 1 version most people use.

The lowest grade oil I use in my power equipment is non synthetic HDEO 15w-40. Sorry not a fan of straight 30 wt. just doesn't flow fast enough when cold. I was using cheap Super Tech 5w-30 for flushing engines but now I have switched to Delo 400 15w-40 since I picked up a case for cheap with a coupon at Costco.

newtostone
06-15-2009, 03:49 PM
Pennzoil 10W30 for me in summer and early spring and fall run 5W30

Mike Blevins
06-15-2009, 05:22 PM
Amzoil signature series 100% synthetic 0w-30. Amzoil heavy duty grease in spindles and all grease fittings in the Turf tiger. Mobil 1 Synthetic in wife's Honda Odyssey. Penzoil 10w-30 in 2005 chevrolet 2500 4x4 (That's what has always been used in it and has done a great job.)

topsites
06-15-2009, 05:34 PM
Amzoil signature series 100% synthetic 0w-30. Amzoil heavy duty grease in spindles and all grease fittings in the Turf tiger. Mobil 1 Synthetic in wife's Honda Odyssey. Penzoil 10w-30 in 2005 chevrolet 2500 4x4 (That's what has always been used in it and has done a great job.)

I'm not particular of the Amsoil or Exxon brands because I believe
it all comes out the same derrick, but I like your style.

Greg78
06-15-2009, 05:37 PM
Valvoline 10W-30.
I use the Lucas Red & Tacky grease. Good stuff.

ProStreetCamaro
06-15-2009, 06:18 PM
Amsoil and Rotella T are my two go to oils.

ferris09
06-15-2009, 06:30 PM
Rest assured that NONE of the oil you use come out of the same "derrick". If you used what came out of the "derrick" straight you would have some serious problems. BTW it does not come out of a derrick but from a wellhead. And no synthetic comes out of either a derrick or wellhead.

ProStreetCamaro
06-15-2009, 07:10 PM
Rest assured that NONE of the oil you use come out of the same "derrick". If you used what came out of the "derrick" straight you would have some serious problems. BTW it does not come out of a derrick but from a wellhead. And no synthetic comes out of either a derrick or wellhead.



You mean no TRUE synthetic comes out of a derrick or wellhead. You do know that most store bought synthetics are a hydrocracked (manipulated dino oil) group 3 oil right? Which would mean they did indeed come out of the ground as crude oil. :p

Nosmo
06-15-2009, 07:51 PM
Yep, synthetic blend, syn oil or what ever you like to call it is Dino oil with man made additives. Not putting it down whatsoever it is probably the top of the line oil.

I use Castrol SAE 30 until it gets to staying up in the 90's and then switch to SAE 40. In the Hydros I use Shell 15-40 Rotella T Diesel.

Nosmo

ferris09
06-15-2009, 08:17 PM
The base compononent which is crude oil, yes it did come out of the ground. NO oil of this type that you use for any purposes comes directly out of the ground. There is no 5w 10w or 30w that comes out of the ground. Yes it is hydrocracked and refined and only then is it suitable for lubrication.

Richard Martin
06-15-2009, 08:22 PM
I use Pennzoil 10w30 and have for many years. It has served me well and I've had no oil related breakdowns or failures.

DO NOT USE A NON DETERGENT oil in any modern engine. The detergents in the additive package prevent sludge from forming in your engine. Do a web search for "non detergent oil" and you can read page after page after page telling you why you don't want non detergent oil in any engine.

Lehighlawnpros
06-15-2009, 08:55 PM
In our newest mower (Grasshopper 722D with D902 Kubota liquid-cooled diesel engine) I'm using Amsoil ACD SAE-30 synthetic oil, with good results.

It had a brief overheat condition the other day due to a broken fan belt (strange at only 1650 hours), and it was good to know that the fully-synthetic oil was in there to help protect the engine.

I have an Amsoil bypass filter system installed as well, oil analysis at 250 hours on the oil and 500 hours on the filters showed that the oil was still in like-new condition, with a TBN of 11.6

johnwon
06-15-2009, 09:16 PM
You all should look to see if your favorite oil is now "GF-4" rated. If so, it is not the good oil it use to be. Those of you running straight 30W wont have to worry about looking, it will not be GF-4 rated. This GF-4 rating is something that has been done to help the cat. converter on cars last up to 10 years for warranty purposes and likely some other emmisions related parts as well. So what did they take away? They lowered the "ZDDP" which helps prevent cam/lifter wear. So the one's who should look at their oil, are the one's who use 10W-30 mainly. The 15W-40 oil will be ok too, it's not a GF-4 oil that I know of. And the person who mentioned the Mobil 1 High Millage 10W-30, is correct in saying it has more anti wear or "ZDDP" in it, it is not GF-4 rated.

Pennington Lawncare
06-15-2009, 09:43 PM
We keep having the same discussions and keep going around in the same circles. I know I've been guilty of doing the same thing. I guess it just comes with spending some time in this forum. Anyway, my 2 cents are
https://www.amsoil.com/storefront/ase.aspx

Richard Martin
06-16-2009, 05:58 AM
They lowered the "ZDDP" which helps prevent cam/lifter wear. So the one's who should look at their oil, are the one's who use 10W-30 mainly.

Why don't you just say ZINC. We've dicussed this before. Good info anyway. Thanks for the tip.

Nosmo
06-16-2009, 06:38 AM
Here is a site that should answer any question about what is what on the subject of oil.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm

Nosmo

Pool Boy
06-16-2009, 08:41 AM
I've had good luck with Wolfshead oil products in my car, truck, boat, mowers, and pressure washers. There must be a reason most of the marina's sell it in this area.

lawnspecialties
06-16-2009, 10:42 AM
Mobil 1 5W-30 Extended Performance every 100 hours. It's only 2 quarts but that's still probably overkill.

Richard Martin
06-16-2009, 10:53 AM
I've had good luck with Wolfshead oil products in my car, truck, boat, mowers, and pressure washers. There must be a reason most of the marina's sell it in this area.

Maybe because they make a lot of money on it? That is the reason they are in business.

Sammy
06-16-2009, 11:51 AM
Pennzoil 10-30 in most of the equipment.
Pennzoil 30 in the rest.

greenred
06-16-2009, 12:38 PM
I figure might as well post this question in this thread then start a new one.

I found a case of Pennzoil SAE 10W-30 in my garage while throwing some stuff out. Thing is I dont remember buying a case of it ever so it would make the oil at the minimum 9 years old if I did not purchase it. Does oil go bad? If so in what way does it go bad?

Also I have some pieces of equipment I might not fire up but a few times a year. Even though Im not putting hardly any hours on the equipment do I still need to change the oil yearly at least? If so why?

ferris09
06-16-2009, 03:41 PM
If you do not run the equipment it is still a good idea to change the oil, as the temperature changes it causes condensation and you could get some water build up in the crankcase, it is always good to run them periodically to ensure the internals are lubed and covered to prevent rust. I always change the oil in any engine if it is going to be unused for a period of to keep and suspended soids from dropping out over a period of time causing sludge in the bottom. People may disagree with me on but this is the way I do things.

STIHL GUY
06-16-2009, 05:54 PM
i run 10W30 in my mowers. i usually run penzoil or quaker state

Icepuck72
06-16-2009, 06:02 PM
What's the difference between just regular 30, and 10w 30?

Richard Martin
06-16-2009, 06:49 PM
What's the difference between just regular 30, and 10w 30?

30 wt is always 30 weight or thickness no matter what temperature it is. 10W30 acts like a thinner 10 weight oil when it's cold and then thickens up to 30 weight when it warms up. It's easier to start up an engine when it has 10w30 oil in it and it also provides better lubrication at cold temps.

Wizz
06-16-2009, 07:23 PM
ive always been told once you go to synthetic you could never go back to regular so im not sure it's wise to switch to syn then switch back?

Yup...just a myth. You can switch, mix and match regular with synthetic, etc, etc...no problems at all. Also using 'non detergent' oil in non filtered motors is a myth as well. For all the factual oil info you want go to: www.bobistheoilguy.com

tacoma200
06-16-2009, 07:50 PM
I run dino for about 100 hrs and switch to a synthetic 10-30. I have read so many threads on this my head hurts. I don't know if the synthetic helps much but we have had several weeks with over 100 degree heat the last couple of years so I just use it to sleep better at night. An air cooled engine is bound to get really hot in certain area's, I would consider mowing above 90 degrees with and air cooled fairly hard on an engine. I have no good facts and I believe you could run 30 dino oil and probably couldn't tell much difference in the long run if you changed it regularly.

Pool Boy
06-16-2009, 07:57 PM
Maybe because they make a lot of money on it? That is the reason they are in business.

Well, I believe that's the name of the game to stay in business you have to be making money. Ask GM and Chrysler.

Pietro
06-16-2009, 08:02 PM
You guys are nuts. We use regular penzoil 10-30 in the gas engines and rotella 15-40 in the diesel. We change oil every week, at most 2 weeks. I cant see spending the big bucks on full synthetic if its getting swapped out so quickly.

johnwon
06-16-2009, 10:25 PM
Why don't you just say ZINC. We've dicussed this before. Good info anyway. Thanks for the tip.
The ZDDP is for both Zinc & Phosphorous, I'm not an expert on it but have studied it some a while back.

towtruck212
06-17-2009, 12:11 AM
I own an Mobile Oil Change Business as well as a Lawn Service Business and the second # is what you need to worry about, because we do not run mowers in the winter which is what the 1st # is for. With that being said any brand works as long as you follow specs.

Exact Rototilling
06-17-2009, 01:28 AM
I own an Mobile Oil Change Business as well as a Lawn Service Business and the second # is what you need to worry about, because we do not run mowers in the winter which is what the 1st # is for. With that being said any brand works as long as you follow specs.
Many here are using SM rated oils [lower ZDDP levels to protect catalytic converters] when their engine manuals are calling for SF, SG, SJ & SL rated oils. All have higher ZDDP than the weak sister SM only oils. Some oils have a SM plus and older SL - SJ rating.

I have a wait and see approach when it comes to SM only rated oils. Generally speaking I feel SM oils are a step backwards. That extra ZDDP can help protect your engine when mowing on a steep incline when your oil flows to some part of the engine can be compromised.

I once spent much time on www.bobistheoilguy.com reading endless posts and debate of this oil over another. Lots of splitting hairs. Some of the senior members say "don't worry about low ZDDP levels, low Moly levels and low calcium levels that show up or don't show up on oil analysis. :confused: All that is old school since the new technology is not showing up on the oil analysis. Then people say the analysis lab needs to recalibrate the machine because of XYZ..... :dizzy:

Someone posted in this thread that they change the oil every week or so and it really doesn't matter what they use. There is a large chunk of truth to that however I'd rather run a better oil a little longer and not spend the time changing it all the time. However if you have employees who really don't care about knocking a chunk of crud down the dip stick hole you are much better off changing more often with a lesser oil.

I will stick to the true synthtic SJ + SL rated oils unless I'm intentionally running a flush oil [short change interval] like I am now with dino Delo 400 15w-40 that carries the lower ZDDP content CJ and SM rating.

I'd be surprised if any of your engine manuals call for a SM only oil. :waving:

marcuslawnguy
06-17-2009, 01:42 AM
I use 10w30 castol syntech full synthetic or quakers fullsynthetic. usually they have good deals at walmart in the 5 quart cans. Good for me because I can use it in all my engines.

johnwon
06-17-2009, 08:42 AM
Even some of the "full synthetic" oils are now GF-4 rated. I did not know that the oils in some cases got worse as time went on. But due to the car manufactures warranties on the cat. converter, it is what it is. I've never seen any of these twin cylinder engines torn down "Kawasaki or Kohler" but I assume they do not have roller lifters?? Now the newer cars have roller lifters and therefore can get by with less "ZDDP" in the oil than before. So that is why I'm telling you about staying away from GF-4 oils for your lawn equipment. I know the line of thinking that says "I've used this oil for 30 years and it never let me down" & you know the rest of what people say. I'm just saying, that may have been true until the oil companies changed the oil to suit the automotive companies.

ron mexico75
06-17-2009, 08:58 AM
I've been using the Briggs and Stratton SAE 30.

Not sure if using synthetic in a small engine provides that much of a difference then regular. Car and truck engines probably a bigger difference.

I was always under the impression that synthetic provided better protection against viscosity breakdown under very high heat, longer usage without having to change due to the viscosity lasting longer and better protection during start up.

ferris09
06-17-2009, 09:07 AM
I do not think the oils were changed to suit the automotive companies as it was more like a mandate to meet EPA emission testings. Oil have changed over the years and the additive packages have forced the thinkings in how things are done now. Used when you built a high performance engine there were no concerns about the break in period, but now when you build an engine it IS a concern. Over the years cam manufacturers have seen a dramatic increase in cam/lifter failures very early, especially during the engine's break in period. The research proved to be the additive packages in the oil as opposed to the material of the cam/lifters as previously thought. If you do not use a cam break in oil (which even the OEM carry now) you can use Shell Rotella as it has about the best additive package of the oils on the shelf now. It is always best to follow the manufacturers recommendations (grade and compisition) of oil.

Exact Rototilling
07-12-2009, 01:17 PM
I mentioned this in an earlier post. Just found it recently.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1508138#Post1508138

Impact of Low Quality Oils on Engine
Wear and Sludge Deposits
A Comparison of
API SA and API SL (ILSAC* GF GF-3) Engine Oils
Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers

BJWLAWNCARE
07-12-2009, 09:29 PM
how about slick 50 in the smaller stuff. Anyone use it or something similar?

Jason Rose
07-12-2009, 10:41 PM
Amsoil 4 stroke in every 4 cycle engine, except a couple that are wore badly and use oil, not wasting the synthetic on them.

Oil changed at the mfg. recommended intervals, no more, no less. Kohlers that's every 100 hours. I don't understand the guys that think they need to change oil every week, that's a huge waste, unless you are somehow putting 100 hours a week on your machines...

kmzlawncare
07-12-2009, 10:59 PM
Lucas oil 15-40 for us.

cccmachine
07-12-2009, 11:18 PM
Switched from Mobil 1 to Royal Purple and engine temp dropped 10 degrees.Engine runs a lot smoother with RP also.

Wizz
07-13-2009, 01:07 AM
how about slick 50 in the smaller stuff. Anyone use it or something similar?

Snake Oil...additives are only there to make money for the company producing them. Modern oils require no additives, I call the isle with all the additives the 'Snake Oil Isle'...just there to sucker the consumer out of money.

Castrol Syntec is not a 'true' synthetic last time I checked some time ago, it was just a highly refined dino oil...Mobil1 even sued them over this years back.

woodspirits
07-13-2009, 01:29 AM
I have used supertech (yes walmart brand) 30w oil for 5 years. Along with changing oil at the right time and keeping the air filter clean, I have 3900 hours on a 23 horse air cooled kawasaki, (scag 52 tiger cub)

This is the best testimonial that I have seen in this thread. I run straight 30w HD Castrol in my 23 hp kaw (Scag Pro-V) as my Scag manual specifies a straight 30w oil.

Does anyone have more than 3900 hours (without touching the engine)???

Lex Lawn
07-13-2009, 01:31 AM
My 29hp Kawi calls for straight 30wt so I use Pennzoil HD. In my Kubota tractor I use Shell Rotella 15w40. Just look at your manual and use the weight that it calls for. I change my oil when the manual calls for it, unless I'm running my equipment in really dusty conditions. Synthentic is great stuff but I'm not looking to run my equipment past the recommended oil change intervals so therefor I stick to conventional.

Lehighlawnpros
07-13-2009, 07:35 PM
Does anyone have more than 3900 hours (without touching the engine)???

3,900 hours is indeed excellent for an air cooled engine!

I have a 1998 Grasshopper 725 (with Kubota WG750 liquid-cooled gas engine @25hp) with 7,100+ hours
and it runs/mows like new.

I used Havoline SAE30 up until 4,735 hours,
and since then Shell Rotella 15w40. I'm changing oil and filter every 100 hours.

Yes, it's the original engine, has never had any internal problems, and is still in use. I think it will easily reach 10,000 hours+.

woodspirits
07-13-2009, 11:17 PM
3,900 hours is indeed excellent for an air cooled engine!

I have a 1998 Grasshopper 725 (with Kubota WG750 liquid-cooled gas engine @25hp) with 7,100+ hours
and it runs/mows like new.

I used Havoline SAE30 up until 4,735 hours,
and since then Shell Rotella 15w40. I'm changing oil and filter every 100 hours.

Yes, it's the original engine, has never had any internal problems, and is still in use. I think it will easily reach 10,000 hours+.

IMHO the correlation between engine oil and engine life is the basis for determining what oils are doing their job. Gee, 3900 hrs. on an air-cooled engine and 7100 hrs. on a liquid-cooled are some good testimonials for the oils used.

"The truth is in the pudding". Can anyone beat these numbers???? Perhaps there should be classes for air-cooled, liquid-cooled, and gasoline or diesel???

GravelyNut
07-14-2009, 12:52 AM
Amsoil 4 stroke in every 4 cycle engine, except a couple that are wore badly and use oil, not wasting the synthetic on them.

Oil changed at the mfg. recommended intervals, no more, no less. Kohlers that's every 100 hours. I don't understand the guys that think they need to change oil every week, that's a huge waste, unless you are somehow putting 100 hours a week on your machines...100 hours a week is hard to get to in a mower. That's 14.28 hours a day, every day of the week. With no stopping once started each day.
50 hour changes on engines without oil filters are easier to get to where they need a change per week.

longblade
07-17-2009, 01:04 AM
Amsoil... in everything. :clapping: