No Spark Plugs and Puppy Paws Lets get ready to rumble post!!!.....l

[retrodog]

Hey, here you go, you guys can lay it all out on the table on this post, and quit hijacking the other posts.....lol. Is diesel better than gas when its almost the same price, or better yet, is diesel better than dfi, cause they are real close. I will add to the debate right here, I would personally be mowing on a 35hp cat diesel than a 28hp efi on almost every application I mow. A 28hp efi smaller frame mower would be a perfect backup engine on my rig, but when they are so close in price why not. The Super Z Hustler 60" with the 28 efi kohler retails for $12829. The 35hp 4 cylinder cat diesel 60" retails for $12495. Common sense would be talking to anyone right now on which one to buy. Hustler runs a special sometimes, so you might save a thousand or two, but thats it. http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=268765&highlight=2009+price

[puppypaws]

Hey, here you go, you guys can lay it all out on the table on this post, and quit hijacking the other posts.....lol. Is diesel better than gas when its almost the same price, or better yet, is diesel better than dfi, cause they are real close. I will add to the debate right here, I would personally be mowing on a 35hp cat diesel than a 28hp efi on almost every application I mow. A 28hp efi smaller frame mower would be a perfect backup engine on my rig, but when they are so close in price why not. The Super Z Hustler 60" with the 28 efi kohler retails for $12829. The 35hp 4 cylinder cat diesel 60" retails for $12495. Common sense would be talking to anyone right now on which one to buy. Hustler runs a special sometimes, so you might save a thousand or two, but thats it. http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=268765&highlight=2009+price


Pup, and lightning is the medium frame badboy, while I believe the z is the medium frame hustler. The Aos 27hp lc kawa, 35hp vanguard, and the cat diesels are Bad Boy's large frame mower, so yes the super z and the aos is more of a comparison, especially when you look at the price points! Hey, you guys give this guy a break, he already had to open up a new post because his last one was took over, let him shine, he just got a brand new bad azz mower, and you guys are just fussing about something else.....lol. I will open you guys up your own thread.

I take you both to be objectively intelligent people, we are not discussing prices in any outline or form. We are talking about which mowers come together in a more equal comparison. Now try to remember, I like Bad Boy mowers and believe in their company 100%. I have personally sold several Bad Boys as well as Hustlers, I tell people at this time you by far get more mower for the money with Bad Boy.

This is the same thing I told a gentleman that called me Sunday night from Alabama talking to me about the differences in Exmark and Badboy. I actually told him I would arrange a demo with a 32 hp Lightning and I thought it would sell itself. I can buy a Super Z for one price and buy the BB Lightning with the 32 Vanguard for $3000.00 less, which way do you actually think I am going to direct people. You still must present the exact facts, not what you think or hear.

We do not want to puzzle people with confusing data, let's lay them on the table as to which mowers compare the closest. Get price totally out of your minds, we all know Scag, Exmark and now Hustler is over priced and this is why Bad Boy is selling mowers to the point they cannot keep up on the assembly line.

Hustler Super Z / 60" Deck / Total Weight 1212 lbs. / HP 23 thru 31

BB Lightning / 60" Deck / Total Weight 1110 lbs. / HP 26 thru 31

BB AOS Gas / 60" Deck / Total Weight 1278 lbs. / HP 27 thru 35

BB AOS Diesel / 60" Deck / Total Weight 1522 lbs. / HP 28 & 35

Look at weights and horse power and tell me which mowers compare the best.
This should not take a great deal of thought.

[retrodog]

Yeah, my way of comparing....here it goes. Hey, what mower have you picked out that you like so far?......"huh....I like the new john deere with the 27hp LC Kawasaki, but I heard that you guys have a h%ll of a mower so I thought I would stop by" then I say "oh ok, so you are looking in the 12 to $13000 range?" "Uh yeah, how did you know?" "Here This is what I have in that price range" (I fire up the 35hp cat and tell him to go mow in the lot behind the shop). Then I show him my 27hp LC Kawasaki for $8895, and let him decide. My absolute favorite way to compare, first compare price, then compare value......works everytime. "wholly sh%!, you can get a cat diesel for the same price!....and it is alot more comfortable.....and it has a stouter deck, frame, front forks, cooler running hydro system, heck of a lot faster, easier to work on, your mower fell off your trailer and the factory fixed it for you, or save over $4000 on the same comparible mower, and it mows better?....wholly sh%$!!where do I sign up man" .......No intelligence needed here........, heck, you really don't even need common sense......come to think of it....I think I have a pretty easy job now that I think about it.

[saylorsdad]

I agree with retrodog here 100% first look at pricepoint then coompare size weight and what you need. my last purchase was a badboy zt was going to buy either toro or hustler around 7k to get 60in deck. shopped a little aand fount a mower that has served me two seasons very well and still going strong. I should have bought the pup but just didn't pull the trigger. I might next year if other plans don't work out.
Posted via Mobile Device

[retrodog]

I am pretty serious about the way that particular customer was talking last week, he ended up with the 27hp LC Kawasaki AOS for $8895 plus tax. I just left out all the GD's and M'n F'rs, cause I am not a big cusser...lol NSP, where r you today, looks like I am the only arguer on here......"whistle...whistle...whistle...." you know the ole' gun draw whistle song.....I must be tired

[puppypaws]

I am pretty serious about the way that particular customer was talking last week, he ended up with the 27hp LC Kawasaki AOS for $8895 plus tax. I just left out all the GD's and M'n F'rs, cause I am not a big cusser...lol NSP, where r you today, looks like I am the only arguer on here......"whistle...whistle...whistle...." you know the ole' gun draw whistle song.....I must be tired

Man you are tired, or drunk one! :dizzy:

[Razorblades]

I take you both to be objectively intelligent people, we are not discussing prices in any outline or form. We are talking about which mowers come together in a more equal comparison. Now try to remember, I like Bad Boy mowers and believe in their company 100%. I have personally sold several Bad Boys as well as Hustlers, I tell people at this time you by far get more mower for the money with Bad Boy.

This is the same thing I told a gentleman that called me Sunday night from Alabama talking to me about the differences in Exmark and Badboy. I actually told him I would arrange a demo with a 32 hp Lightning and I thought it would sell itself. I can buy a Super Z for one price and buy the BB Lightning with the 32 Vanguard for $3000.00 less, which way do you actually think I am going to direct people. You still must present the exact facts, not what you think or hear.

We do not want to puzzle people with confusing data, let's lay them on the table as to which mowers compare the closest. Get price totally out of your minds, we all know Scag, Exmark and now Hustler is over priced and this is why Bad Boy is selling mowers to the point they cannot keep up on the assembly line.

Hustler Super Z / 60" Deck / Total Weight 1212 lbs. / HP 23 thru 31

BB Lightning / 60" Deck / Total Weight 1110 lbs. / HP 26 thru 31

BB AOS Gas / 60" Deck / Total Weight 1278 lbs. / HP 27 thru 35

BB AOS Diesel / 60" Deck / Total Weight 1522 lbs. / HP 28 & 35

Look at weights and horse power and tell me which mowers compare the best.
This should not take a great deal of thought.
IMHO, I think that the BB AOS and the Hustler Super Z are 'apples to apples" and the BB Lightning and Hustler Z are also. As far as the Lightning and the Hustler Super Z having closely matched HP ranges, that just tells me that for their own reasons, Hustler has chosen to not offer as much horsepower on their "large frame" midmount Zero Turn mowers as Bad Boy, Scag, Exmark, Gravely, Dixie Chopper, Country Clipper, Encore, Cub Cadet, Ferris, Bobcat and Lastec to name a few. From the specs above, the BB AOS Vanguard and the Hustler Super Z are closer in weight than the Lightning and super z comparo. The super Z and AOS models are closer in length, width and wheelbase also.:)

[puppypaws]

IMHO, I think that the BB AOS and the Hustler Super Z are 'apples to apples" and the BB Lightning and Hustler Z are also. As far as the Lightning and the Hustler Super Z having closely matched HP ranges, that just tells me that for their own reasons, Hustler has chosen to not offer as much horsepower on their "large frame" midmount Zero Turn mowers as Bad Boy, Scag, Exmark, Gravely, Dixie Chopper, Country Clipper, Encore, Cub Cadet, Ferris, Bobcat and Lastec to name a few. From the specs above, the BB AOS Vanguard and the Hustler Super Z are closer in weight than the Lightning and super z comparo. The super Z and AOS models are closer in length, width and wheelbase also.:)

Interesting, just curious, what is the comparison between the Hustler Z and the Bad Boy Lightning. The difference in the Hustler Super Z and the Hustler Z is pumps and wheel motors, the Super Z is a 15 mph mower, the Lightning is a 14 mph mower and the Hustler Z is a 9 mph mower. How would you get a reasonable comparison between a 9 mph mower (Hustler Z) and a 14 mph mower (Lightning). The Lightning will cut much more grass in a days time than the Hustler Z (no comparison). The Super Z and Lightning are more evenly matched at 14 & 15 mph cutting speeds, than a 9 mph Hustler Z mower left sitting in the dust.

You must remember I am a believer in the Bad Boy mowers, company and their personnel. I have personally worked with them on some of their changes, one being, I told them the foot assist should be added at the factory instead of the dealer having to accept total responsibility for installation. This is now in place, I explained to them the expensive part (electric deck lift), was already installed and not as an option. I do not know of any mower company installing a deck lift system that is not a very expensive option. Now, BB has the best of both worlds, electric deck lift (which is great) along with the foot assist which is needed for fast corrections over obstacles at certain times.

This is one of the reasons I think the BB company is moving up the line as quickly as they are. Listening to their end users, and applying some of this knowledge to improve their product line. You will not find this with the larger name brand companies, this may be why they are struggling and BB is not.

[brucec]

I must find a way to highjack this thread...

[Razorblades]

I must find a way to highjack this thread...
That's funny Brucec! By the way , that was a great thread, makes us all stop and think about our dad's, whether they're living or gone on. :waving:

[brucec]

Seriously when you compare machines you must take into consideration the price point. I checked on the Hustler super Z but it was much more $$$ than the bad boy so is it really apples to apples if is out reach price wise? I think a good comparasion to this argument is a corvette to many super high dollar sports cars. You may get beat by a little or may even be equal but at the end of the day you have more $$$ in your pocket and know that the other guy spent much more to win. My father inlaw just bought a kubota zd326 and I would have not problem running the BB up against it and he paid close to $14,000 for it. The dealer I bought my BB from also sells Kubota and I asked him if the Kubota had $6000 more machine in it and he said no way!

[brucec]

Thanks Razorblades, I'm glad so may people liked it. I will now bow and and watch from the sidelines...this is gonna' get good. Where the hell is NSP. Kinda' like waiting for Clint Eastwood to show up in cheesy western...all the town folk are closing their windows and scurrying in off of the dusty street uh ohh it's almost high noon...

[Razorblades]

Interesting, just curious, what is the comparison between the Hustler Z and the Bad Boy Lightning. The difference in the Hustler Super Z and the Hustler Z is pumps and wheel motors, the Super Z is a 15 mph mower, the Lightning is a 14 mph mower and the Hustler Z is a 9 mph mower. How would you get a reasonable comparison between a 9 mph mower (Hustler Z) and a 14 mph mower (Lightning). The Lightning will cut much more grass in a days time than the Hustler Z (no comparison). The Super Z and Lightning are more evenly matched at 14 & 15 mph cutting speeds, than a 9 mph Hustler Z mower left sitting in the dust.

You must remember I am a believer in the Bad Boy mowers, company and their personnel. I have personally worked with them on some of their changes, one being, I told them the foot assist should be added at the factory instead of the dealer having to accept total responsibility for installation. This is now in place, I explained to them the expensive part (electric deck lift), was already installed and not as an option. I do not know of any mower company installing a deck lift system that is not a very expensive option. Now, BB has the best of both worlds, electric deck lift (which is great) along with the foot assist which is needed for fast corrections over obstacles at certain times.

This is one of the reasons I think the BB company is moving up the line as quickly as they are. Listening to their end users, and applying some of this knowledge to improve their product line. You will not find this with the larger name brand companies, this may be why they are struggling and BB is not.

I know that you are and I agree with you about that's why Bad Boy is moving up as quickly as they are. But if I'm looking for a Zero Turn mower, then I have a certain price range in mind, as well as hp, deck size and overall size of the mower. I will also pay attention to how productive (effective cutting speed for the grass or weed types that I will be using it on) it is and how many features I get with the model. So HP wise, the Lightning would be an equal comparison, dollar wise and physical size wise,the AOS model would be my comparison if it was about the same price as a similar sized Super Z. I can't understand why there is such a gap in the performance of the Z and Super Z. It looks like Hustler has been neglecting to update the Z model to keep up with alot of the competition.

[Razorblades]

Thanks Razorblades, I'm glad so may people liked it. I will now bow and and watch from the sidelines...this is gonna' get good. Where the hell is NSP. Kinda' like waiting for Clint Eastwood to show up in cheesy western...all the town folk are closing their windows and scurrying in off of the dusty street uh ohh it's almost high noon...

:laugh: He's probably trying to follow some clanky Turf Tiger across a steep hill and can't stop to use his "mobile device".:cry:

[brucec]

Or roasting a weenie over a roaring fire that used to be a scag! LMAO!

[puppypaws]

I must find a way to highjack this thread...

Go ahead, that will be fine, I will apologize for interrupting your thread. I love your mower and am a big BB fan, I know a number of people with the BB organization.

Controversy can be a good thing for people to learn from, if the correct information is being presented. I always try to get my facts as close to correct as humanly possible, even at best there is always mistakes. If I can get the corrected information, I try to came back and present it, to lessen any confusion.

When I started reading Hustler's specification literature on their website I saw some very unclear information. I called Hustler this morning and pointed out confusion being caused by the literature on their website, the gentlemen saw exactly what I was speaking about. He said the minute, we finished talking, he would be contacting the proper people to get the correct information inserted into their website. I doubt I will see it changed, but like I showed him, there information is not factual.

[retrodog]

Puppy, I guess I am taking nsp's place here...lol. No, i like the fact that you are so knowledgable and are so interested in zero turns, but that rubs me kinda funny. You noticed the information in Hustlers site is confusing, so you call the company to tell them? thats just weird, sounds like you are bored out there...lol. I noticed some things on Encore, Exmark, Gravely, and the Bobcat website too that might need some attention......, I have a buddy that wants an aegis Kohler put on a new Bobcat, he wanted me to ask you if you knew someone at the factory that could make that happen for him......lol Just had to give you a hard time for giving me a hard time on the way I compare mowers. In all reality the pup would be compared to the z, but then you have the $6000 price point versus the $9000, that just doesn't add up in my eyes, the lightning is closer to the same price, even though it has a lot better offered on the features, that is just the other companies fault for not offering that much mower at that price point. I am blown away that you are a normal homeowner that just has a more than normal passion for mowers, I am not buying in to the you might be Chad controversy, but maybe like a brother, cousin, in-law, business partner, or best friend....lol. You are waaaay in to the commercial mowers to not be a LCO or anything... You could be like alot of people, just friendly and just found something to talk about and people to talk to about it......ummmmm I hope to meet one day to figure you out, maybe Chad will bring you to the bb dealer meeting this year (it is really cool by the way, my friend I brought with me last year didn't want to go home). I thought nearly a week of meetings has got to be pretty boring, but it was actually really awesome.

[retrodog]

I will throw this gauntlet in the arena. Take any Bad Boy Mower, and set it beside any other mainstream mower for the same retail price point. Grade each mower on a scale of 1 to 10 from cut quality, ease of maintenance, comfort, productivity, build quality, features offered, motor, etc. If there is a "mainstream" mower that grades higher than Bad Boy in an unbiased opinion, I want to know personally because I will go out and buy that mower for my mowing business immediately....period, and I am a man of my word. Maybe this challenge will get you guys that haven't checked out a Bad Boy yet to drive somewhere for a test run. I personally drove over 2 hours to look at a Bad Boy mower (never had seen one in person) and bought one....I have never looked back since. My first day I had a BB, a guy flagged me over going down the highway. I thought I had a flat on my trailer the way he was acting, but he just wanted to ask me about my mower....lol Worst case scenario, I find a hell of a mower for a hell of a price!

[nosparkplugs]

I have been fighting this Bad Boy VS the industry for some time now, for a minute there was only a few of us Bad Boy owners on here, taking a beating daily. Those of us whom purchased last year, and did the research 12 months before that had ZERO support for Lawnsite.

I must say Lawnsite & Retrodog is whom I have to thank, I drove about 9 hours to get my Bad Boy, and their was a local Bad Boy dealer within 17 miles from my house. I HAD to meet Retrodog, and a fellow Lawnsite member in the flesh. Retro is one of the nicest guys I have meet in years, he is passionate about what he does something that is lacking locally here with ALL dealers. Don't be scared to drive to get a Bad Boy their WORTH IT.

Will I drive again to purchase another Bad Boy from Retrodog yes, why because the Bad Boys are so easy to maintain, and unless you really need a close dealer any homeowner or commercial LCO with an ounce of mechanical skill, can do just about all the work on a Bad Boy to keep it running. Plus Bad Boy will ship you any parts you need free.

I always have my Blackberry 8830 on me, you would think I would get tired of running these ZTR's, but I fight over the mowers with the guys daily. The only other choice is to stay in the air conditioning truck, sleeping or surfing the net on the BB.


It's funner to Highjack threads than these "official" ones you see how boring they are. BruceC :waving:

Cooking Weenie's and chasing Scags:laugh:

No one wants to come & play with the Dogs on their porch

[retrodog]

I am with you nsp, sometimes I felt like a ****** just beating my head on a brick wall, but looks like i might have knocked a few bricks loose. Heck I think you were one of the ones giving me a hard time..... Even the guys that owned Bad Boys on here were afraid to say anything because they knew they would get dogged out......lol. I noticed a few coming out of the woodwork now, some guys have been members for years, and never even mentioned their mowers......... Now it seems like alot of these guys that were making fun of us last year, and now are stuck with the messed up John Deeres, the outrageous priced exmarks, or trying to make theirselves feel better about pulling the trigger on the Hustler or Scag all while thinking...."I guess I should have paid a hair more attention to the Bad Boy guys and looked at them a little more seriously".

[Grass Happens]

I would love to try out a Bad-Boy. They look well built and well though out. I just cannot justify driving 3 hours to a dealer, when I have a few of the largest power equipment dealers (and almost every other brand) available to me with-in an hour and half. I am fairly mechanically inclined, and my best friend owns a lawn mower repair shop, so I could get anything fixed; I just like knowing that I have help close by. That being said, I am sure somebody closer will pick up Bad Boy by the time I start looking for a new Z.

[TheUfan]

I would love to try out a Bad-Boy. They look well built and well though out. I just cannot justify driving 3 hours to a dealer, when I have a few of the largest power equipment dealers (and almost every other brand) available to me with-in an hour and half. I am fairly mechanically inclined, and my best friend owns a lawn mower repair shop, so I could get anything fixed; I just like knowing that I have help close by. That being said, I am sure somebody closer will pick up Bad Boy by the time I start looking for a new Z.

I agree. If I bought a BB here I would have to wait until their shop got a motorcycle, a four wheeler and a boat motor out before they could get to a mower. The "overpriced toro/exmark" dealer only sells commercial lawn equipment so I don't have to worry about this. Price is a very important component but its not the only component. Bring the seat height down to a level more in line with the new exmark,toro, scag, etc. to lower the center of gravity and get me a dedicated lawn equipment only dealer and it might sell me. BB looks like a company on a mission to take market share though.

[retrodog]

I agree. If I bought a BB here I would have to wait until their shop got a motorcycle, a four wheeler and a boat motor out before they could get to a mower. The "overpriced toro/exmark" dealer only sells commercial lawn equipment so I don't have to worry about this. Price is a very important component but its not the only component. Bring the seat height down to a level more in line with the new exmark,toro, scag, etc. to lower the center of gravity and get me a dedicated lawn equipment only dealer and it might sell me. BB looks like a company on a mission to take market share though.

You would be saving a ton of money in equipment if you did swap to BB. I just silently visited the Exmark dealer today to check out the new lazer z's, and I think overpriced is an understatement....they want an arm and a leg too! I couldn't believe the prices I was quoted! Let me break it down for you.....Bad Boy Pup 23hp vanguard, 30hp kohler command, or 31hp kawasaki 48" to 60" deck $6195 to $7495. Lightning 26hp lc kawa, 31hp kawa, or 32hp vanguard 52" to 72" $7695 to $9195. Aos 27hp lc kawa, 35hp vanguard 60" or 72" $8895 to $9695. Cat diesel 28hp or 35hp 60" or 72" $11695 to $12995. All have stouter deck, frame, and front forks than the exmark, mow just as good, waaay faster, more comfortable (except the pup, rides about the same), and tons cheaper. These are retail prices people! I feel like I am banging my head into a wall. You have like 5 pieces of exmark equipment. If you just save $2000 a mower, that is $10000 in savings. How bout a buy 4 get one free sale, or even buy 3 get 2 free sale.... Not to mention what you get for that, check out the "real" BB specs next to the exmark. I didn't think the suspension paired with the michigan seat made that much difference....OMG...I just got through getting beat to death today on a brand new $13000 Lazer Z. Did I say $13000? yes a $13000 gas engine lazer z!! How bout a 20 hp kohler command lazer for over $9000 whoa... I liked some of the fancy gauges and stuff, but you have to be kidding me. Please shop around. I thought I would get sick on the dry yard I was mowing on. I guess I am just spoiled now. Please take the time to ride on a lightning or bigger, you will be writing me a letter thinking me after mowing for 6 hours straight on a property!