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lawns Etc
06-16-2009, 06:58 PM
I am in the market for a new Z and I have previously owned Exmark,Dixie,Everride,JD and Cub Commercial all 60'' so I am looking for another 60" I checked around at my 2 local dealers who both have good service. Here is what I am looking at

60" Lightning Z 31 Kawi with no flat tires and wing included $8695 with a $500 in store gift certificate for the dealers shop.

I demoed one last year and would just have to get used to sitting a little higher than any of the other mowers.

What I am asking is the price in line with what you guys are seeing. They also stock the LC 26 Kawi but I had the 29 LC DFI on the Deere 797 and was not inmpressed so I dont think I want to go with that.

Pietro
06-16-2009, 07:15 PM
I dont know much about bad boy mowers, but this is what I do know. The perks are as follows, Price....definetly cant beat the price when comparing to a different brand of same motor/deck size. Minus, the entire machine "swings" open. Just seems like too many parts that can break. The spindles are NOT greasable. I dont see how that can be good. I grease all spindles WEEKLY. If I were you I would think like I do. You get what you pay for. Some things are slightly cheaper than others, but there is something about bad boys prices that make me think.....I mean they are thousands cheaper......so theyre saving money somewhere..........and I wont risk it. Im not rich by any means.....but if youre cutting that many lawns.....youre better off with a better name machine......you save 2K.....which is a lot, but it could bite you in the butt. 2K is a lot but it might only be 4 payments more to get a toro or bobcat or scag or whatever.....

lawns Etc
06-16-2009, 07:21 PM
I am not saving much over a Bobcat Predator Pro $8900 or Dixie Classic 33/60 $9100
I have looked them over pretty well and they seem well thought out and there is alot of positive feedback here on this site. I have logged thousands of hours on multiple Zs so I can get used to anything. If it were service only I would definately go Dixie as the dealer is close by and is awesome but the decks on the Dixies are not great when the wet crabgrass starts up very soon lots of chunkin. I like Deere but will not buy a 800 series. So I am up in the air with Bobcat and the Bad Boy same dealer and service.

SfTD_service_CENTER
06-16-2009, 07:29 PM
I am not saving much over a Bobcat Predator Pro $8900 or Dixie Classic 33/60 $9100
I have looked them over pretty well and they seem well thought out and there is alot of positive feedback here on this site. I have logged thousands of hours on multiple Zs so I can get used to anything. If it were service only I would definately go Dixie as the dealer is close by and is awesome but the decks on the Dixies are not great when the wet crabgrass starts up very soon lots of chunkin. I like Deere but will not buy a 800 series. So I am up in the air with Bobcat and the Bad Boy same dealer and service.

i dont think you would be dissapointed with a 830a deere. anyway dixie chopper is awsome with double blades i would just buy that or a predator pro! the bobcat predator pro with the generac is suposed to be one of the best mowers from what i hear and they also have alot of nice features with the deck leveling system and they are fast and they cut alot of grass. go with the bobcat!

nosparkplugs
06-16-2009, 07:34 PM
This is a tough call I would ask to demo both the bobcat & the bad boy. Go with what you like,either are fine machines and both are priced to sell.

As much as I like the Bad boys the kawaski air cooled big blocks are gas hogs. You will have tons of power, while sucking fuel at 1.6 to 2.0 GPH. Good luck.
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lawns Etc
06-16-2009, 08:01 PM
I have ran the Dixie double X blades and they are great but not on juicy crabgrass.The Bobcat seems great but side by side I cant make much of a difference with the BB both have good seats the financing is about the same.I demoed both last year and cut and stripe are similar so its hard for me.

nosparkplugs
06-16-2009, 08:03 PM
Ok then go with the Bad Boy it's got thicker metal, and their soon to not be the underdog anymore.

I could not be happier with our Bad Boy, as you know all whom have purchased a BB come on here HAPPY!
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TomberLawn
06-16-2009, 08:05 PM
I'd go for the Predator Pro. That is an amazing mower. With the Generac engine, it's unstoppable. The Bad Boy I demoed was a 28hp diesel, which has been discussed on these forums as a bad engine choice compared to the 35hp diesel. Anyway, I didn't like the way the Bad Boy handled compared to my Woods (which is built by bobcat). And like nosparkplugs mentioned, several users have commented that the big Kawasakis drink the fuel. My mower uses 1.3 gph. The Generac also provides more stable power, according to Bobcat. The product manager emailed me and said because it's actually a generator engine, the Generac governor allows less rpm drop in heavy loads. I know I've cut grass over a foot tall at full speed and it doesn't lug down at all.

nosparkplugs
06-16-2009, 08:15 PM
I would take the 28hp Perk-A-Piller its doing well in the Scag TT. Its the mule belt on the AOS BB's. That 28hp diesel on BB with a smaller deck like a 52 or 48, would be a different CAT all together, and sip fuel all day long. These diesel mills spin slower,and like to lugg, more than a gasburner.

My brother loves the Generac engines too, next to the diesels that is a bad arse engine.only the Dixie Choppers here have the Generac's.
I'd go for the Predator Pro. That is an amazing mower. With the Generac engine, it's unstoppable. The Bad Boy I demoed was a 28hp diesel, which has been discussed on these forums as a bad engine choice compared to the 35hp diesel. Anyway, I didn't like the way the Bad Boy handled compared to my Woods (which is built by bobcat). And like nosparkplugs mentioned, several users have commented that the big Kawasakis drink the fuel. My mower uses 1.3 gph. The Generac also provides more stable power, according to Bobcat. The product manager emailed me and said because it's actually a generator engine, the Generac governor allows less rpm drop in heavy loads. I know I've cut grass over a foot tall at full speed and it doesn't lug down at all.
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lawns Etc
06-16-2009, 08:51 PM
Does anyone have specs and pricing on the 26 LC Kawi just for comparison.

DaddyRabbit
06-16-2009, 09:13 PM
I think you should demo the bad Boy along w/any others compliments of a willing and very hungry salesperson. Do this, save the Ferris for last and chances are that will be the one you'll long for. IMHO, they can't be beat.


I am in the market for a new Z and I have previously owned Exmark,Dixie,Everride,JD and Cub Commercial all 60'' so I am looking for another 60" I checked around at my 2 local dealers who both have good service. Here is what I am looking at

60" Lightning Z 31 Kawi with no flat tires and wing included $8695 with a $500 in store gift certificate for the dealers shop.

I demoed one last year and would just have to get used to sitting a little higher than any of the other mowers.

What I am asking is the price in line with what you guys are seeing. They also stock the LC 26 Kawi but I had the 29 LC DFI on the Deere 797 and was not inmpressed so I dont think I want to go with that.

nosparkplugs
06-16-2009, 09:26 PM
OH yes Ferris gets their ARSE beat all day on PRICE, he is not spending over $10,000


I think you should demo the bad Boy along w/any others compliments of a willing and very hungry salesperson. Do this, save the Ferris for last and chances are that will be the one you'll long for. IMHO, they can't be beat.

IndianSprings
06-16-2009, 09:26 PM
First post here! I have been running commercial grade mowers since 78 and have bought and used, Kubota diesel units, JD ZTRs, Gravely's and had good luck with all of them......but we absolutely love our Bad Boy's. We run 60" decks with the 26 hp liquid cooled Kawasaki. Ninety percent of the lawns we service are level. They are an extremely ruggedly built machine, we like the easy access swing out side panels that allow easy access to all the main components. It makes it easier to wash out and clean up as well.
There are really few things to maintain on this mower. We have run the pizz out of ours for two seasons with no issues what so ever. We have changed one set of rear tires to a bar tread vs. a turf tread, it seemed like the Maxxis brand tires wouldn't achieve the needed traction on steep angles.
We have mowed side beside Lazer 's (great mower) and had no issue in performing at the same speed, maybe a little faster overall.
We are considering buying a third unit, if we win a school district bid, if we do we're going to a 72" deck, but going to stay with a liquid cooled kawasaki. We also farm and bleed JD green but this is one instance were our personal satisfaction of overall performance,durability,longevity and price/value go to Bad Boy

nosparkplugs
06-16-2009, 09:36 PM
Get you the Big AOS diesel if you win that school bid, It was the best investment we have made sips fuel at .66GPH. I agree with your points on the Bad Boys 100%. I loved the fact I saved myself several thousands of dollars going with the AOS diesel. The Only big diesel close to the AOS diesel on price is the ZD331 that was here in Memphis.

The Generac engine is a great engine, but not a deal breaker for me. The Bad Boys are so easy to maintain.


First post here! I have been running commercial grade mowers since 78 and have bought and used, Kubota diesel units, JD ZTRs, Gravely's and had good luck with all of them......but we absolutely love our Bad Boy's. We run 60" decks with the 26 hp liquid cooled Kawasaki. Ninety percent of the lawns we service are level. They are an extremely ruggedly built machine, we like the easy access swing out side panels that allow easy access to all the main components. It makes it easier to wash out and clean up as well.
There are really few things to maintain on this mower. We have run the pizz out of ours for two seasons with no issues what so ever. We have changed one set of rear tires to a bar tread vs. a turf tread, it seemed like the Maxxis brand tires wouldn't achieve the needed traction on steep angles.
We have mowed side beside Lazer 's (great mower) and had no issue in performing at the same speed, maybe a little faster overall.
We are considering buying a third unit, if we win a school district bid, if we do we're going to a 72" deck, but going to stay with a liquid cooled kawasaki. We also farm and bleed JD green but this is one instance were our personal satisfaction of overall performance,durability,longevity and price/value go to Bad Boy

DaddyRabbit
06-16-2009, 09:55 PM
Buy the very best and cry only once! :dancing: Besides, find the right/hungry dealer and I think you'll find the difference in price negligible when you add enough "options" on the Bad Boy to equal the "standard equipment" on the Ferris.

OH yes Ferris gets their ARSE beat all day on PRICE, he is not spending over $10,000

nosparkplugs
06-16-2009, 10:06 PM
Give me the list of standard equipment on a Ferris that is optional on a Bad Boy. What model are we talking here too??

We need to try to not highjack this thread too, as it always happens. Start a Ferris VS Bad Boy thread and we all can go at it:)

I'm pretty sure he did not even have a Ferris on the short list. That may be due to the fact their pricing is too high for him.



Buy the very best and cry only once! :dancing: Besides, find the right/hungry dealer and I think you'll find the difference in price negligible when you add enough "options" on the Bad Boy to equal the "standard equipment" on the Ferris.

DaddyRabbit
06-16-2009, 10:17 PM
How about a ROPS for one? Regardless, he owes it to himself to try them both and let the chips fall where they may.

Give me the list of standard equipment on a Ferris that is optional on a Bad Boy. What model are we talking here too??

nosparkplugs
06-16-2009, 10:29 PM
You got 1.):) I thought the ROPS were cool looking, until I tried to go under my first tree with one, the fact BB leaves the ROPS off is nice, Yes I am confident the OSHA PO-PO on here will jump on this;). If you need a ROP purchase one. The ROPS are added into the cost on most other ZTR's,nothing is free.


How about a ROPS for one? Regardless, he owes it to himself to try them both and let the chips fall where they may.

astrohip
06-16-2009, 10:42 PM
60" Lightning Z 31 Kawi with no flat tires and wing included $8695 with a $500 in store gift certificate for the dealers shop.

I have almost this exact same unit--Lightning Z, 31 Kawa with the 52" deck. I've only had it three weeks, and I'm not a commercial LCO, just a guy with some tough acreage to cut. ($8195 BTW)

But I can tell you that thing can MOW! I've already spent several hours on it mowing some raw land with grass & weeds easily 2-3 feet high. And it just whips thru it, not even bogging down. It's not a perfect golf-course smooth cut when you're mowing that kinda crap, but it's amazingly good. And when you are mowing anything more normal (normal including stuff 4-6 inches high), it does cut like a landing strip--long, smooth & flat.

And my wife loves it--she's out there just looking for stuff to mow! :cool2:

PS: The grass clippings in the pic of her were not created by the Bad Boy. I had mowed this pasture the week before with the tractor/shredder. She wanted to "re-do" it with the BB to make it look better. I need to take some after pics.

DaddyRabbit
06-17-2009, 06:11 AM
The Boss Woman needs to let those arm rests down and adjust the levers back accordingly so that the simplest of hand and arm movements navigates that Bad Boy. This way she can with a simple flick of the wrist tell the bartender, (this being you) to "bring me another Mai Tai". :drinkup:


I have almost this exact same unit--Lightning Z, 31 Kawa with the 52" deck. I've only had it three weeks, and I'm not a commercial LCO, just a guy with some tough acreage to cut. ($8195 BTW)

But I can tell you that thing can MOW! I've already spent several hours on it mowing some raw land with grass & weeds easily 2-3 feet high. And it just whips thru it, not even bogging down. It's not a perfect golf-course smooth cut when you're mowing that kinda crap, but it's amazingly good. And when you are mowing anything more normal (normal including stuff 4-6 inches high), it does cut like a landing strip--long, smooth & flat.

And my wife loves it--she's out there just looking for stuff to mow! :cool2:

PS: The grass clippings in the pic of her were not created by the Bad Boy. I had mowed this pasture the week before with the tractor/shredder. She wanted to "re-do" it with the BB to make it look better. I need to take some after pics.

Razorblades
06-17-2009, 10:13 AM
I am not saving much over a Bobcat Predator Pro $8900 or Dixie Classic 33/60 $9100
I have looked them over pretty well and they seem well thought out and there is alot of positive feedback here on this site. I have logged thousands of hours on multiple Zs so I can get used to anything. If it were service only I would definately go Dixie as the dealer is close by and is awesome but the decks on the Dixies are not great when the wet crabgrass starts up very soon lots of chunkin. I like Deere but will not buy a 800 series. So I am up in the air with Bobcat and the Bad Boy same dealer and service.

I think that either one would do fine for you. Will this dealer let you demo both brands? That would help your decision. I do have a couple of questions for you about mowers you've used in the past. First, doe's the Bad Boy sit much higher than the Dixie Chopper that you've used? They look like they would both set close to the same height. The other question is about the EverRide brand. Which model have you used in the past? Was it the Warrior or the Hornet? How did you like that machine overall? How well did it cut compared to the other brands that you've used? Would you consider one again? Just curious. Thanks, Razorblades.

astrohip
06-17-2009, 10:26 AM
The Boss Woman needs to let those arm rests down and adjust the levers back accordingly so that the simplest of hand and arm movements navigates that Bad Boy. This way she can with a simple flick of the wrist tell the bartender, (this being you) to "bring me another Mai Tai". :drinkup:
How do you adjust the levers? :hammerhead: I'm sure it's staring me in the face . . .

nosparkplugs
06-17-2009, 10:31 AM
When you going to pull the Trigger on a ZTR??? man you ask alot of questions, and buy nothing:rolleyes: Get you a Bad Boy, so you can chase Scags around saying "here Kitty, Kitty, Kitty"


I think that either one would do fine for you. Will this dealer let you demo both brands? That would help your decision. I do have a couple of questions for you about mowers you've used in the past. First, doe's the Bad Boy sit much higher than the Dixie Chopper that you've used? They look like they would both set close to the same height. The other question is about the EverRide brand. Which model have you used in the past? Was it the Warrior or the Hornet? How did you like that machine overall? How well did it cut compared to the other brands that you've used? Would you consider one again? Just curious. Thanks, Razorblades.

dwost
06-17-2009, 10:42 AM
How do you adjust the levers? :hammerhead: I'm sure it's staring me in the face . . .

10 minute job. Swing out the tanks, remove two nuts (one holding the piston, one holding the rod to the pump) and move the rod to the bottom hole and piston to the top. The end result will be feather light inputs on the sticks (read; touchy) and very little stick travel (read; no more extended arms) Before you tighten it all up check to make sure you don't need to adjust the rod ends (they screw in/out) as your "neutral" position may begin to creep due to the adjustment. Mine did and I had to shorten them to make it sit still. :) This is all documented on the service manual that you can download directly off their site. Enjoy!

lawns Etc
06-17-2009, 10:42 AM
1. The Bad Boy feels alot higher than the 2 SP2800s that I have owned (Dixies)
2. I have demoed all of them just trying to sell myself on the BB
3. Ferris is not an option , No good dealers
4. Never said my budget I have spent over 10k on many machines
5 Everride was the favorite mowers (warriors) but parts became an issue
6. Ask alot of questions and dont buy? I have spent over $100k in the last 4 yrs on equipment I bought Everrrides (3) and they fell of the face of the earth so I am a little gunshy on a no name mower.

dwost
06-17-2009, 10:47 AM
1. The Bad Boy feels alot higher than the 2 SP2800s that I have owned (Dixies)
2. I have demoed all of them just trying to sell myself on the BB
3. Ferris is not an option , No good dealers
4. Never said my budget I have spent over 10k on many machines
5 Everride was the favorite mowers (warriors) but parts became an issue
6. Ask alot of questions and dont buy? I have spent over $100k in the last 4 yrs on equipment I bought Everrrides (3) and they fell of the face of the earth so I am a little gunshy on a no name mower.

Answers:

1) True, they do
2) Cool, which one do you like best?
3) Good call, definitely important
4) What IS your budget? Just get the AOS and be done with it :)
5) They were bought by Ariens so if they keep the design (which it looks like they will for awhile) you SHOULD be able to get parts.
6) Good for you to research it. Never a bad thing to do and worth it if you are outlaying hard earned $$ for equipment.

astrohip
06-17-2009, 10:51 AM
This is all documented on the service manual that you can download directly off their site. Enjoy!

Thanks! :clapping:

nosparkplugs
06-17-2009, 10:56 AM
Lawns ETC #6 was for Razerblades, and it was a joke. I quoted him on it.

#2 if you have to force feed yourself a ZTR it's not for you, this you should know. I can tell you I had zero trouble getting use to sitting high on the Bad Boy after riding the BB, and then hopping on the Walker MT is like driving a low rider:cool2: The Height does not effect the hill climbing ability I have been saying this for over 7 months now, and those new BB owners have said the same thing. Get over the seat height myth.




1. The Bad Boy feels alot higher than the 2 SP2800s that I have owned (Dixies)
2. I have demoed all of them just trying to sell myself on the BB
3. Ferris is not an option , No good dealers
4. Never said my budget I have spent over 10k on many machines
5 Everride was the favorite mowers (warriors) but parts became an issue
6. Ask alot of questions and dont buy? I have spent over $100k in the last 4 yrs on equipment I bought Everrrides (3) and they fell of the face of the earth so I am a little gunshy on a no name mower.

lawns Etc
06-17-2009, 11:50 AM
Pretty sure its gonna end up being a Bobcat Predator Pro Im demoing a 26/61 and a 25/61 leftover tommorrow,so well see I just cant do another no name mower. But maybe well see after demoing these Bobcats on about 25 lawns tommorrow.

Razorblades
06-17-2009, 11:52 AM
When you going to pull the Trigger on a ZTR??? man you ask alot of questions, and buy nothing:rolleyes: Get you a Bad Boy, so you can chase Scags around saying "here Kitty, Kitty, Kitty"

I already have a Zero turn mower, pay attention:hammerhead::). Have you never read in any of my replies that I have a Lastec 3261 AGC mower? I am very satisfied with it. I mow serveral properties as a side business, not a "full timer" My neighbor ahs a Bad Boy AOS 35 Vanguard mower and I've used it some. I like it fine but for me, I prefer the Lastec articulating deck more. As for all of the questions, I'm just naturally inquisitive about just about all brands of mowers, regarding their cut, performance and other features. Before I bought the Lastec, I was looking hard at the EverRide Warrior and it probably would have been my next choice, so I just like to get feedback from people who have used them to see how well they've done for them. I would really like to see a good review on the Country Clipper Boss or Charger models. :waving:

nosparkplugs
06-17-2009, 12:08 PM
The Walker Dealer I use, tried to take on the Lastec line, just did not catch on here in Memphis or surrounding area, now I may be wrong on the number of Lastec untis in use here, but their rare. I can remember when he started carrying them, and dropped them. The time he carried the Lastec, and when he parked that thing infront of the store store traffic was double for a while, and traffic would slow on the street, dang rubber neckers. Which one do you have? send me some pics for your baby. I hear you on the articulating deck, that is why I have liked the front mowers for so many years also they do not scalpe like the midmounts. For my ANAL customers:) that would fire me in a heartbeat for so much as a scalping:laugh: I only would use a Walker MT period.

Razor I was joking with you


I already have a Zero turn mower, pay attention:hammerhead::). Have you never read in any of my replies that I have a Lastec 3261 AGC mower? I am very satisfied with it. I mow serveral properties as a side business, not a "full timer" My neighbor ahs a Bad Boy AOS 35 Vanguard mower and I've used it some. I like it fine but for me, I prefer the Lastec articulating deck more. As for all of the questions, I'm just naturally inquisitive about just about all brands of mowers, regarding their cut, performance and other features. Before I bought the Lastec, I was looking hard at the EverRide Warrior and it probably would have been my next choice, so I just like to get feedback from people who have used them to see how well they've done for them. I would really like to see a good review on the Country Clipper Boss or Charger models. :waving:

nosparkplugs
06-17-2009, 12:21 PM
The local Bad Boy dealer 17 miles from me, is also a Bobcat dealer, and likes both the BB & Bobcat line. when I visited him last year he said the Bad Boys were outselling the Bobcats quickly, he did not stock the Predator Pro, why I do not know, so I had never heard of this mower until about December of 2008. For me the Predator Pro would have not mattered since I am converting over to diesel.

I thing some dealers throw their personal preferance's into what units they stock, most local dealers don't like or stock the higher HP units with any brand ZTR. This is bad business since I went out of town for my diesel purchase





Pretty sure its gonna end up being a Bobcat Predator Pro Im demoing a 26/61 and a 25/61 leftover tommorrow,so well see I just cant do another no name mower. But maybe well see after demoing these Bobcats on about 25 lawns tommorrow.

Razorblades
06-17-2009, 12:58 PM
The Walker Dealer I use, tried to take on the Lastec line, just did not catch on here in Memphis or surrounding area, now I may be wrong on the number of Lastec untis in use here, but their rare. I can remember when he started carrying them, and dropped them. The time he carried the Lastec, and when he parked that thing infront of the store store traffic was double for a while, and traffic would slow on the street, dang rubber neckers. Which one do you have? send me some pics for your baby. I hear you on the articulating deck, that is why I have liked the front mowers for so many years also they do not scalpe like the midmounts. For my ANAL customers:) that would fire me in a heartbeat for so much as a scalping:laugh: I only would use a Walker MT period.

Razor I was joking with you

I know you were, that's why I put the smileyface by the hammerhead. I believe the main reason they didn't catch on 3-4 years ago was because of the considerably higher price(dealer price) compared to other major brands. Couple that with the small dealer network and most peoples lack of info about them and a little leery of a concept that was fairly new to the commercial side of the industry, although the turf industry has been using them for years.

Mike Blevins
06-17-2009, 04:01 PM
When you going to pull the Trigger on a ZTR??? man you ask alot of questions, and buy nothing:rolleyes: Get you a Bad Boy, so you can chase Scags around saying "here Kitty, Kitty, Kitty"

Always got to have that Scag jab in there. LOL You won't be chasing Scags you will be following them when it comes time to resale that big ol Bad mower. THAT is when your going to lose your argument (and A$$). Along with the warranty. When your low low priced Babdoy is in need of some work in about a year on most things two years on others this is where Scag shines. I have been mowing with my Scag Since beginning of last year and still have till 2011 on my warranty. Any Badboy bought at the same time will be long out of warranty by then. you can preach low cost, and try to tell yourself your mower choice was the best but just read these post on here and look at how every badboy mower thread usually has a jab at Scag or Exmark mowers. Because these are the mowers that set industry standards.(And have for years now) These are the name brands that true veteran lawncare companies that have been around know will serve their companies the best. You know deep down you get what you pay for. Scag and Exmark mowers are higher in your area. But around here the difference in a Badboy and an Exmark or Scag is not enough for me to even consider a badboy especially if i'm going to rig it like my Scag with flat free front tires,ROPs, foot deck lift,adjustable front to back handles,and better warranty. Add all these things to a badboy and the price is just about the same. Then you don't have your "price points " anymore along with the Industry leading resale value to go along with it.

Razorblades
06-17-2009, 04:08 PM
Glad that you posted Mike, It WAS beginning to get dull:laugh:

GreenAcresLandscaping
06-17-2009, 05:20 PM
Go with the Dixie, Walt has great service. There is a reason why 85% of the LCO's around us (South NJ) run them. Look at J Boys they have 16 of them!

nosparkplugs
06-17-2009, 05:21 PM
Mike glad you back, Razerblade started the chasing the Scags with me on another thread nothing personal OK. I know your mad at me over the Idiot comments still, I do care what you think:)

I use to run Scags, when the local dealer got a BIG head I was gone. The reason why many are going with a Bad Boy is value, this is good for the industry cause it is forcing these dealers with Big heads to rethink their pricing. Has Scag not come down on their price's? Tacoma200 purchased a new Scag based on the price, normally he would have passed the price was right.


Always got to have that Scag jab in there. LOL You won't be chasing Scags you will be following them when it comes time to resale that big ol Bad mower. THAT is when your going to lose your argument (and A$$). Along with the warranty. When your low low priced Babdoy is in need of some work in about a year on most things two years on others this is where Scag shines. I have been mowing with my Scag Since beginning of last year and still have till 2011 on my warranty. Any Badboy bought at the same time will be long out of warranty by then. you can preach low cost, and try to tell yourself your mower choice was the best but just read these post on here and look at how every badboy mower thread usually has a jab at Scag or Exmark mowers. Because these are the mowers that set industry standards.(And have for years now) These are the name brands that true veteran lawncare companies that have been around know will serve their companies the best. You know deep down you get what you pay for. Scag and Exmark mowers are higher in your area. But around here the difference in a Badboy and an Exmark or Scag is not enough for me to even consider a badboy especially if i'm going to rig it like my Scag with flat free front tires,ROPs, foot deck lift,adjustable front to back handles,and better warranty. Add all these things to a badboy and the price is just about the same. Then you don't have your "price points " anymore along with the Industry leading resale value to go along with it.

lawns Etc
06-17-2009, 06:32 PM
Go with the Dixie, Walt has great service. There is a reason why 85% of the LCO's around us (South NJ) run them. Look at J Boys they have 16 of them!

I agree Dean at Walts is the absolute best in service but Jimmy at J Boys has about 6 Bad Boys now 3 last year and 3 more this year.
Dixie is a great mower but in a couple of weeks when the crabgrass takes over you will be chunkin and spittin grass and have to clean the deck every lawn.

I like the Turners Walt,Dean and Travis alot but the Excalibur is a bit much at 11k before tax

I have alot of seat time on the Dixies and they are tanks but I got tired of the chunkin

kb9nvh
06-17-2009, 06:32 PM
Ahh, I just wont say anything I guess... :-)


Always got to have that Scag jab in there. LOL You won't be chasing Scags you will be following them when it comes time to resale that big ol Bad mower. THAT is when your going to lose your argument (and A$$). Along with the warranty. When your low low priced Babdoy is in need of some work in about a year on most things two years on others this is where Scag shines. I have been mowing with my Scag Since beginning of last year and still have till 2011 on my warranty. Any Badboy bought at the same time will be long out of warranty by then. you can preach low cost, and try to tell yourself your mower choice was the best but just read these post on here and look at how every badboy mower thread usually has a jab at Scag or Exmark mowers. Because these are the mowers that set industry standards.(And have for years now) These are the name brands that true veteran lawncare companies that have been around know will serve their companies the best. You know deep down you get what you pay for. Scag and Exmark mowers are higher in your area. But around here the difference in a Badboy and an Exmark or Scag is not enough for me to even consider a badboy especially if i'm going to rig it like my Scag with flat free front tires,ROPs, foot deck lift,adjustable front to back handles,and better warranty. Add all these things to a badboy and the price is just about the same. Then you don't have your "price points " anymore along with the Industry leading resale value to go along with it.

lawns Etc
06-17-2009, 06:35 PM
The resale is an issue also around here a Deere,Dixie or Bobcat with 1000 hrs will still bring 5k in decent shape I sold 3 Everride Warriors all around 1000hrs and got 3-4k. So I think that I have talked myself out of the Bad Boy now but will pull the trigger by Friday

Mike Blevins
06-17-2009, 10:35 PM
Ahh, I just wont say anything I guess... :-)

LOL:laugh: You need to keep these post going. Any time I want a good laugh I read it. You need to get another name brand mower. Scag or any other company for that matter don't need customers like this. You had a mower for three years and it run flawlessly until one day it smells of gas and caught fire. Yeh I would say that is Scag's fault all the way there. So you get on a public website and then you bash Scag and jump on the bandwagon and make a few friends. LOL :laugh: When in fact Scag reallly offered you a pretty good deal on another 2009 3 year newer mower for less than you bought your 06 for. BUT your had already bashed Scag and burned bridges so much and joined the Jim jones Badboy cult you couldn't take the deal (because you would have looked like an idiot) and now your bitter because of nobodies fault but your own. So keep that pic of the Scag burning on here for everyone to see. Its just a reminder to every sponsor and business on here that there are people out there that when everything don't go the way they want it then its the worst piece of equipment ever made. we can argue this till dooms day fact is this there are more Scags out there mowing grass than badboys period. In fact there are Scags out there still mowing that were made before Badboys were even an idea. What you need to do is get on here and call people idiots and then you can be in the same category as nosparkplugs. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Mike Blevins
06-17-2009, 10:44 PM
Mike glad you back, Razerblade started the chasing the Scags with me on another thread nothing personal OK. I know your mad at me over the Idiot comments still, I do care what you think:)

I use to run Scags, when the local dealer got a BIG head I was gone. The reason why many are going with a Bad Boy is value, this is good for the industry cause it is forcing these dealers with Big heads to rethink their pricing. Has Scag not come down on their price's? Tacoma200 purchased a new Scag based on the price, normally he would have passed the price was right.

Good to be back. I'm not mad at you I like getting on here and keeping everyone honest. Its a great day when I get on here and can steer people through the Badboy smoke and mirors. Sorry your Scag dealer was such a punk. But you buying a babdoy isn't making Scag drop their prices. And I really can't speak for Tacoma but since he already owned a Scag Turf Tiger I don't think he would have passed. The reason the certain type of Scag Tigers were on sale were they had a good surplus of them and wanted to move some machines. Not because people are buying badboy mowers:laugh:.

puppypaws
06-17-2009, 11:24 PM
Good to be back. I'm not mad at you I like getting on here and keeping everyone honest. Its a great day when I get on here and can steer people through the Badboy smoke and mirors. Sorry your Scag dealer was such a punk. But you buying a babdoy isn't making Scag drop their prices. And I really can't speak for Tacoma but since he already owned a Scag Turf Tiger I don't think he would have passed. The reason the certain type of Scag Tigers were on sale were they had a good surplus of them and wanted to move some machines. Not because people are buying badboy mowers:laugh:.

If you are going to keep everyone honest you need to be telling people Scag is doing everything possible to keep from going down the tubes. Closing plants, reorganizing, sells are very hard for Scag at this particular time and dealers are going under virtually every day. These are just the real facts, Bad Boy has a backlog of behind 750 mowers on the assemble line 2 weeks ago and have it down to 300 this week. They are selling mowers faster than anyone percentage wise. Scag is struggling, Exmark and Toro is struggling, Hustler is moving along but poorly compared to previous years. Bobcat and Bad Boy mowers are selling extremely well, with record sells for 2009.

Now, as "Paul Harvey" says, "Lets hear the rest of the story."

retrodog
06-17-2009, 11:44 PM
Good to be back. I'm not mad at you I like getting on here and keeping everyone honest. Its a great day when I get on here and can steer people through the Badboy smoke and mirors. Sorry your Scag dealer was such a punk. But you buying a babdoy isn't making Scag drop their prices. And I really can't speak for Tacoma but since he already owned a Scag Turf Tiger I don't think he would have passed. The reason the certain type of Scag Tigers were on sale were they had a good surplus of them and wanted to move some machines. Not because people are buying badboy mowers:laugh:.

I am here to tell you that bad boy is no laughing matter. I went to the local Scag dealer here today to get a new head for a stihl weedeater, and noticed 2 Scags on the property for sale. This time 2 years ago there were 10 to 20 in stock. In my area, you can't go one work day without seeing a Bad Boy working commercially, or on a trailer on the way to mow. Here, it is so obvious the mower that has taken off these past 2 years. This year alone, I have had 7 dealers call me that were looking at adding the Bad Boy line, and asked me questions about the company. City municipalities, churches, school districts, homeowners, and commercial guys everywhere here have caught the "bad boy virus". I have said this before, and will stand behind what I say.

retrodog
06-17-2009, 11:46 PM
I will throw this gauntlet in the arena. Take any Bad Boy Mower, and set it beside any other mainstream mower for the same retail price point. Grade each mower on a scale of 1 to 10 from cut quality, ease of maintenance, comfort, productivity, build quality, features offered, motor, etc. If there is a "mainstream" mower that grades higher than Bad Boy in an unbiased opinion, I want to know personally because I will go out and buy that mower for my mowing business immediately....period, and I am a man of my word. Maybe this challenge will get you guys that haven't checked out a Bad Boy yet to drive somewhere for a test run. I personally drove over 2 hours to look at a Bad Boy mower (never had seen one in person) and bought one....I have never looked back since. My first day I had a BB, a guy flagged me over going down the highway. I thought I had a flat on my trailer the way he was acting, but he just wanted to ask me about my mower....lol Worst case scenario, I find a hell of a mower for a hell of a price!
here, I found it.

lawns Etc
06-17-2009, 11:52 PM
Well its gonna be a rain day tommorrow Im gonna go to 3 dealers and see whats the best deal I can get on 1 of the 3 Bad Boy Lightning,Bobcat Predator Pro and Dixie Classic 33/60 so well see I will be coming home with something tommorrow.

retrodog
06-17-2009, 11:58 PM
Well its gonna be a rain day tommorrow Im gonna go to 3 dealers and see whats the best deal I can get on 1 of the 3 Bad Boy Lightning,Bobcat Predator Pro and Dixie Classic 33/60 so well see I will be coming home with something tommorrow.

Get the lightning, you will be thanking me later, the easy ride system paired with the michigan seat is priceless on a long day mowing! The dixie and bobcat will beat you up on a long day. Hands down, a Ferris or Bad Boy would be my only choice for a mower after knowing what I know now on the difference suspension makes.

kb9nvh
06-18-2009, 05:35 AM
You pretty much have it down except I didn't bash SCAG, just stated facts.
If the facts look bad for SGAG then I guess that's bashing.
Fact is, the expensive mower (6K actually + tx when I bought it) was used two seasons (32 months, 60 hours) and worked flawlessly. Beginning my third mowing season after mowing for 1/2 hour it stopped running, exploded in flames and burned to the ground leaving me without a 6K mower and lucky to not be in the hospital.

Scag offered to replace the mower with a new one at a cost to me of 6.2K + tx. When a pretty damn new mower almost kills me I think the manufacturer owes me more than that.
In any case, unless SCAG sold me a mower for 4.5K then my 1K deductible would kick in meaning that if I had to pay 1k regardless I might as well get a more expensive mower since my insurance is replacement cost of 1K would be the same.

Since I have that experience under my belt of owning a SCAG and I know that even a name brand is no guarantee the mower will be around in three seasons, I'm going with VALUE this time instead of blind name brand loyalty.
Now if the name "SCAG" had bought me something besides a burnout maybe I would be paying more and getting a TT and been in with name brand crowd who feel that's the best bang for their buck but SCAG didn't so here we are.

I live in a big SCAG/dixie chopper area where thats what you see on LCO trailers. Lately, there's been quite a few BB's added to the line up. After I get mine I'll give them the same shake SCAG got good or bad..I'll toot the horn for the mower that gives me the best value and works the best. If BB is it then so be it. My SCAG experience speaks for itself.


LOL:laugh: You need to keep these post going. Any time I want a good laugh I read it. You need to get another name brand mower. Scag or any other company for that matter don't need customers like this. You had a mower for three years and it run flawlessly until one day it smells of gas and caught fire. Yeh I would say that is Scag's fault all the way there. So you get on a public website and then you bash Scag and jump on the bandwagon and make a few friends. LOL :laugh: When in fact Scag reallly offered you a pretty good deal on another 2009 3 year newer mower for less than you bought your 06 for. BUT your had already bashed Scag and burned bridges so much and joined the Jim jones Badboy cult you couldn't take the deal (because you would have looked like an idiot) and now your bitter because of nobodies fault but your own. So keep that pic of the Scag burning on here for everyone to see. Its just a reminder to every sponsor and business on here that there are people out there that when everything don't go the way they want it then its the worst piece of equipment ever made. we can argue this till dooms day fact is this there are more Scags out there mowing grass than badboys period. In fact there are Scags out there still mowing that were made before Badboys were even an idea. What you need to do is get on here and call people idiots and then you can be in the same category as nosparkplugs. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

kb9nvh
06-18-2009, 06:03 AM
OH, and when I get my new BB I'll change my picture so all my old SCAGie bros can love me again.

You pretty much have it down except I didn't bash SCAG, just stated facts.
If the facts look bad for SGAG then I guess that's bashing.
Fact is, the expensive mower (6K actually + tx when I bought it) was used two seasons (32 months, 60 hours) and worked flawlessly. Beginning my third mowing season after mowing for 1/2 hour it stopped running, exploded in flames and burned to the ground leaving me without a 6K mower and lucky to not be in the hospital.

Scag offered to replace the mower with a new one at a cost to me of 6.2K + tx. When a pretty damn new mower almost kills me I think the manufacturer owes me more than that.
In any case, unless SCAG sold me a mower for 4.5K then my 1K deductible would kick in meaning that if I had to pay 1k regardless I might as well get a more expensive mower since my insurance is replacement cost of 1K would be the same.

Since I have that experience under my belt of owning a SCAG and I know that even a name brand is no guarantee the mower will be around in three seasons, I'm going with VALUE this time instead of blind name brand loyalty.
Now if the name "SCAG" had bought me something besides a burnout maybe I would be paying more and getting a TT and been in with name brand crowd who feel that's the best bang for their buck but SCAG didn't so here we are.

I live in a big SCAG/dixie chopper area where thats what you see on LCO trailers. Lately, there's been quite a few BB's added to the line up. After I get mine I'll give them the same shake SCAG got good or bad..I'll toot the horn for the mower that gives me the best value and works the best. If BB is it then so be it. My SCAG experience speaks for itself.

Sammy
06-18-2009, 06:29 AM
I am in the market for a new Z and I have previously owned Exmark,Dixie,Everride,JD and Cub Commercial all 60'' so I am looking for another 60"


With you having used all those different mowers, are you looking for that one great machine or do you just buy whatever is a good price deal at the time ?

Why were you not happy with those machines ?

lawns Etc
06-18-2009, 07:36 AM
Pretty much used to have the new machine itch every year but I had alot of accounts that were 2 plus acres so the hours added up pretty fast. Hands down the best cut of all that I have owned was the Deere 797 and 757 that I had but my plans to get the new 850s went out the window when I demoed one. I am looking for a solid machune now to go 1500 plus hours in 2 years. I know the Dixie and Bobcat will do that with a little maintenamce but I want it all if I can get it. I wish you could put a 7 Iron deck on a Dixie and you would have something.

Razorblades
06-18-2009, 10:00 AM
Always got to have that Scag jab in there. LOL You won't be chasing Scags you will be following them when it comes time to resale that big ol Bad mower. THAT is when your going to lose your argument (and A$$). Along with the warranty. When your low low priced Babdoy is in need of some work in about a year on most things two years on others this is where Scag shines. I have been mowing with my Scag Since beginning of last year and still have till 2011 on my warranty. Any Badboy bought at the same time will be long out of warranty by then. you can preach low cost, and try to tell yourself your mower choice was the best but just read these post on here and look at how every badboy mower thread usually has a jab at Scag or Exmark mowers. Because these are the mowers that set industry standards.(And have for years now) These are the name brands that true veteran lawncare companies that have been around know will serve their companies the best. You know deep down you get what you pay for. Scag and Exmark mowers are higher in your area. But around here the difference in a Badboy and an Exmark or Scag is not enough for me to even consider a badboy especially if i'm going to rig it like my Scag with flat free front tires,ROPs, foot deck lift,adjustable front to back handles,and better warranty. Add all these things to a badboy and the price is just about the same. Then you don't have your "price points " anymore along with the Industry leading resale value to go along with it.

I don't own/use a Scag or Bad Boy and wouldn't be against owning/using either one either but let me make a couple of points. Mike, do you see what thread that you're on, that's right a Bad Boy thread. Yes it is your choice to post on any thread that you choose. But remember that it goes both ways, you and serveral more of the Scag "promoters" have jumped on NoSparkplugs, Retrodog and any other Bad Boy owners who dared to post or bring up Bad Boy mowers on different Scag threads in the past. So what is the difference in what you're doing now and what they've done in past threads? You're speaking up for a brand when you post, so are they. You've made some good points about warranty and other things but you are just as biased/opinionated towards Scag as they are about Bad Boys. Lastly, from my sideline point of view on these BB vs Scag threads, you guys are responsible for causing some of the replies and responses that the Bad Boy guys give because of the "my scag is superior" attitude, "simply the best" and "you get what you pay for" lines that are continually used by you guys. No one likes to have it thrown in their face that the mower that they just bought (referring to non Scag buyers) and are proud of, "is a lesser quality mower", "cannot do nearly as good of a job" and "how could you make that kind of mistake, buying a mower from a newer company like that"? You guys just don't realize how arrogant and condescending your attitude is Sometimes. Preferences about mower and engine brands are fine and debating the virtues of them is fine also but remember that it goes both ways.

Mike Blevins
06-18-2009, 12:10 PM
I don't own/use a Scag or Bad Boy and would't be against owning/using either one either but let me make a couple of points. Mike, do you see what thread that you're on, that's right a Bad Boy thread. Yes it is your choice to post on any thread that you choose. But remember that it goes both ways, you and serveral more of the Scag "promoters" have jumped on NoSparkplugs, Retrodog and any other Bad Boy owners who dared to post or bring up Bad Boy mowers on different Scag threads in the past. So what is the difference in what you're doing now and what they've done in past threads? You're speaking up for a brand when you post, so are they. You've made some good points about warranty and other things but you are just as biased/opinionated towards Scag as they are about Bad Boys. Lastly, from my sideline point of view on these BB vs Scag threads, you guys are responsible for causing some of the replies and responses that the Bad Boy guys give because of the "my scag is superior" attitude, "simply the best" and "you get what you pay for" lines that are continually used by you guys. No one likes to have it thrown in their face that the mower that they just bought (referring to non Scag buyers) and are proud of, "is a lesser quality mower", "cannot do nearly as good of a job" and "how could you make that kind of mistake, buying a mower from a newer company like that"? You guys just don't realize how arrogant and condescending your attitude is Sometimes. Preferences about mower and engine brands are fine and debating the virtues of them is fine also but remember that it goes both ways.

Point taken. BUT you go back and read these Badboy posts and these are the guys that turn them into a Scag vs. Badboy. Its always a jab at the Scag mowers with these guys. "My Badboy flipped down the interstate 42 times and if that were a Scag it would have been in a scrap pile somewhere." LOL :laugh: Or you'll be chasing Scags going here kitty kitty. LOL :hammerhead:When I see something that needs a little clearing up like the price of Scag mowers I tend to try to clarify. It seems that Scag mowers are competitive in pricing except where these guys live. If they were the prices these guys have quoted in the past then I would probably look at another brand also. There are a few Badboy threads on here I haven't touched simply because I have no need or want to reply on them. The economy is the reason for people buying cheaper products. Not quality. My cousin is a manager of the local grocery stores here and say their "food club" store name brand sells have more than tripled and blames it on the economy. Bottom line people are looking for the best deal and pinching pennies. Personally I tried the "real value" orange kool-aid the other day and trust me it to is a less superior taste than the real Kool-aid. LOL :waving:

Cooter
06-18-2009, 12:45 PM
Pretty much used to have the new machine itch every year but I had alot of accounts that were 2 plus acres so the hours added up pretty fast. Hands down the best cut of all that I have owned was the Deere 797 and 757 that I had but my plans to get the new 850s went out the window when I demoed one. I am looking for a solid machune now to go 1500 plus hours in 2 years. I know the Dixie and Bobcat will do that with a little maintenamce but I want it all if I can get it. I wish you could put a 7 Iron deck on a Dixie and you would have something.


What was it that turned you off about the 850 John Deere after the demo. I was interested in the 850 until I received a price quote.

saylorsdad
06-18-2009, 01:01 PM
funny that you say badboy mowers are lesser quality. care to point out just where the lesser quality is? They have the most engine, thickest deck, and easiest access of any mower brand period. not just that they are thousands less?
Posted via Mobile Device

Razorblades
06-18-2009, 01:19 PM
Point taken. BUT you go back and read these Badboy posts and these are the guys that turn them into a Scag vs. Badboy. Its always a jab at the Scag mowers with these guys. "My Badboy flipped down the interstate 42 times and if that were a Scag it would have been in a scrap pile somewhere." LOL :laugh: Or you'll be chasing Scags going here kitty kitty. LOL :hammerhead:When I see something that needs a little clearing up like the price of Scag mowers I tend to try to clarify. It seems that Scag mowers are competitive in pricing except where these guys live. If they were the prices these guys have quoted in the past then I would probably look at another brand also. There are a few Badboy threads on here I haven't touched simply because I have no need or want to reply on them. The economy is the reason for people buying cheaper products. Not quality. My cousin is a manager of the local grocery stores here and say their "food club" store name brand sells have more than tripled and blames it on the economy. Bottom line people are looking for the best deal and pinching pennies. Personally I tried the "real value" orange kool-aid the other day and trust me it to is a less superior taste than the real Kool-aid. LOL :waving:
Not to hijack this thread BUT sorry about the "Whuppin" we (Arkansas' College baseball team) put on ya'll (UVA) last night!:clapping:

GreenAcresLandscaping
06-18-2009, 01:46 PM
Have you considered Hustler or Toro? I would go to Saul's in Sharptown off of rt40. Last weekend I was in there picking up a demo and he had a Toro Z Master 500 60" inside and it has been sitting there a while, he is usually pretty good on prices when he has it in stock. There was a new Hustler Super Z with an xr-7 deck (can't remember if it was a 72" or 60") out front the other day. The Flex Forks for the Hustlers are awsome and give a great ride.

Mike Blevins
06-18-2009, 02:10 PM
Not to hijack this thread BUT sorry about the "Whuppin" we (Arkansas' College baseball team) put on ya'll (UVA) last night!:clapping:

I watched that game last night. It was a good game. My wife is from Arkansas. I'm no UVA fan by no means. I was pulling for Arkansas. :usflag:

Razorblades
06-18-2009, 02:44 PM
Arkansas was lucky to win that game.

lawns Etc
06-18-2009, 03:29 PM
Well I ended up with a Bad Boy 32Vangaurd 60". I went today to 3 dealers and Dixie was no deal wouldnt budge at all and I still dont like the deck height adjustment system and their is no foot assist option on the electric lift.Bobcat looked very good but when I compared everything and the dealer who is selling the BadBoy and his service I made my mind up.
Heres what I got for $8399
32 Vanguard Lightning
EZ Chute Blocker
Accelerator
2 Extra sets of blades
I would have been at $10K with the Bobcat with all of that and around $11K for the Dixie with the Accelerator.

I am picking it up at 8 am Tommorow and puttin her right to work on some wet thick grass so well see.

astrohip
06-18-2009, 04:31 PM
Heres what I got for $8399
32 Vanguard Lightning
EZ Chute Blocker
Accelerator
2 Extra sets of blades
I am picking it up at 8 am Tommorow and puttin her right to work on some wet thick grass so well see.
Congrats! And a sweet deal. For just a couple hundred more than me, you got the 32 VG vs my 31Kawa, plus all the access. Nice negotiating!

Enjoy. :clapping:

W.L.M.
06-18-2009, 04:39 PM
So along with my bad boy should I get a chevy or a ford? What a classic pissing match going on here.

kb9nvh
06-18-2009, 05:00 PM
Did you get the deck lift also for that price?
Is the vangard 32 less or more than the kaw 31hp?

I'm picking mine up Saturday and I'm getting the 31 kaw, deck lift and chute block for something similar.

Well I ended up with a Bad Boy 32Vangaurd 60". I went today to 3 dealers and Dixie was no deal wouldnt budge at all and I still dont like the deck height adjustment system and their is no foot assist option on the electric lift.Bobcat looked very good but when I compared everything and the dealer who is selling the BadBoy and his service I made my mind up.
Heres what I got for $8399
32 Vanguard Lightning
EZ Chute Blocker
Accelerator
2 Extra sets of blades
I would have been at $10K with the Bobcat with all of that and around $11K for the Dixie with the Accelerator.

I am picking it up at 8 am Tommorow and puttin her right to work on some wet thick grass so well see.

kb9nvh
06-18-2009, 05:08 PM
Everyone would have the Lamborghini if they could afford it, some of us have to settle for the mustang and get 98% of the performance and give up the status.

So along with my bad boy should I get a chevy or a ford? What a classic pissing match going on here.

puppypaws
06-18-2009, 05:21 PM
Did you get the deck lift also for that price?
Is the vangard 32 less or more than the kaw 31hp?

I'm picking mine up Saturday and I'm getting the 31 kaw, deck lift and chute block for something similar.

The 32 Vanguard is $300.00 less than the 31 Kawasaki.


Well I ended up with a Bad Boy 32Vangaurd 60". I went today to 3 dealers and Dixie was no deal wouldnt budge at all and I still dont like the deck height adjustment system and their is no foot assist option on the electric lift.

Yes, there is a foot assist for the Lightning, but not for the AOS model.

astrohip
06-18-2009, 05:30 PM
The 32 Vanguard is $300.00 less than the 31 Kawasaki.
Oh, I thought it was more than the 31K. I don't feel *quite* so bad then. Although he did get a boatload more access than I did.payup

lawns Etc
06-18-2009, 05:31 PM
The 32 Vanguard is $300.00 less than the 31 Kawasaki.




Yes, there is a foot assist for the Lightning, but not for the AOS model.

I was talking about the Dixie Electric lift their is no foot assist if you get the electric option on a Dixie.

I will add the petal later if I need it then.

kb9nvh
06-18-2009, 05:42 PM
I'm with you on the dixie....I didn't like their electric lift and the manual lift seemed like it would catch a lot of stuff in the guts of it..
You got a good price on that BB....those guys aren't allowed to deal unless they throw in stuff I'm pretty sure.

I was talking about the Dixie Electric lift their is no foot assist if you get the electric option on a Dixie.

I will add the petal later if I need it then.

puppypaws
06-18-2009, 05:43 PM
I was talking about the Dixie Electric lift their is no foot assist if you get the electric option on a Dixie.

I will add the petal later if I need it then.

Sorry, I did not read it correctly. I like the electric lift, but personally could not do without the foot assist. I need the deck to respond quicker sometimes picking up over an object or crossing a ditch.

kb9nvh
06-18-2009, 05:53 PM
Plus, you dont loose your deck height setting if you use the pedal.

Sorry, I did not read it correctly. I like the electric lift, but personally could not do without the foot assist. I need the deck to respond quicker sometimes picking up over an object or crossing a ditch.

retrodog
06-18-2009, 07:29 PM
I wish you were closer Mike, I would make you put your money where your bite is. I would be willing to mow you title for title for any bad boy that was the same retail price as your scag. Maybe even have a few lawnsite members come out to "judge" the mowing. Judges would have 5 scores to grade 1 to 10. quality of cut, total time taken to cut, comfort level while cutting (we could have all judges ride on each mower to determine comfortability), and ease of maintenance (maybe change belts, grease, clean filters, swap blades, and clean mower after mowing), and build quality and features offered on each mower.

lawns Etc
06-18-2009, 07:50 PM
Man talk about you guys Hi Jacking a thread all I asked for was some more input from owners about BB and we got 8 pages of pissing contest. Some of us need to grow up and worry about themselves.

retrodog
06-18-2009, 08:01 PM
Man talk about you guys Hi Jacking a thread all I asked for was some more input from owners about BB and we got 8 pages of pissing contest. Some of us need to grow up and worry about themselves.

I just get tired of people like mike trying to make people feel stupid for buying a less expensive machine that is blowing a hole in the mower market right now. If we owned Scags and talked about them, he would add us to his friends lists and act like our best friend. There are a bunch of guys on here with a BB that don't even say anything about their mower because of people like him....... Even if he did meet me, and his mower did grade higher than mine in the mowing contest, atleast he would have to use the dreaded BB everyday and have to look at it everyday That would be worth the money to me.....lol didn't mean to start anything, I am just happy to see you guys actually taking a step and talking about your mowers, just don't let all the negative brand loyal people on here scare you off, heck i didn't even come on here for a while, cause I just got tired of all the crap I was getting (plus my wife making fun of me too...lol) I am officially a lawnsite nerd now to all our friends......

astrohip
06-18-2009, 08:32 PM
Man talk about you guys Hi Jacking a thread all I asked for was some more input from owners about BB and we got 8 pages of pissing contest.
Go into the User Control Panel settings, click on Edit Options, and near the bottom, find the option to change the number of posts to display per page to 40. Then you'll only have 2 pages of pissing contest to read. :laughing:

:hammerhead:

kb9nvh
06-18-2009, 08:33 PM
This has been a great thread and mostly on topic.. with some mild regressions. We've talked of all the brands and likes and dislikes. You ended up with a BB just like I will on Saturday (I cant wait!!). I think the bottom line is that all the non box store mowers are fine mowers and have been shown to provide exceptional service (for the most part). Brand loyalty, local cutting conditions and personal preference is what it comes down to and when we are splitting hairs this closely you can bet there will be a lot of opinions (and especially if a particular person has had a recent bad experience with a certain brand).

Congrats on your new mower...expecting lots of pictures and well thought opinions on what you choose.

Man talk about you guys Hi Jacking a thread all I asked for was some more input from owners about BB and we got 8 pages of pissing contest. Some of us need to grow up and worry about themselves.

lawns Etc
06-18-2009, 08:43 PM
Well im not big into pics but I know it will be very muddy after mowing tommorrow Ill try to get a couple before and after pics up when I can.

dwost
06-18-2009, 09:09 PM
It's a classic case of insecurity. It's human nature when someone overcompensates to hide their shortcomings as many of the brand loyal folks on here are doing. Bad Boy being the new kid on the block seems to be causing this a lot lately. Every post turns into a hijacked pissing match which is quite funny. Plain and simple there are many great mowers to choose from that will last for many years and provide an excellent cut and build quality. We all have our preferences plain and simple. Face the facts fellas, Bad Boy mowers are causing many OEM's (and users) to get their panties in a bunch over the fact they are gaining market share, are actually profitable in this tough economic time and are slowly becoming a force to reckon with that a price which is almost untouchable. Maybe you all should drop the hostility and start getting back to why we are on here which is to share ideas, troubleshoot and welcome a new brand to the family. After all, their lineage came from experiences with all the other brands that many of you are so loyal towards. Can't we all just get along? :)

kb9nvh
06-18-2009, 09:48 PM
Stop the Bad Boy LOVE!!! :-)

I'll be glad to see some real time put on these mowers (BB) by more than just the few commercial guys on here that are using them now. Seems like the big guys are going through many mowers every few years and would be in a good position stick one or two of these into their inventories just because the price point is so good. Its all about the green and if these get the job done for less investment then there shouldn't' be any argument.

It's a classic case of insecurity. It's human nature when someone overcompensates to hide their shortcomings as many of the brand loyal folks on here are doing. Bad Boy being the new kid on the block seems to be causing this a lot lately. Every post turns into a hijacked pissing match which is quite funny. Plain and simple there are many great mowers to choose from that will last for many years and provide an excellent cut and build quality. We all have our preferences plain and simple. Face the facts fellas, Bad Boy mowers are causing many OEM's (and users) to get their panties in a bunch over the fact they are gaining market share, are actually profitable in this tough economic time and are slowly becoming a force to reckon with that a price which is almost untouchable. Maybe you all should drop the hostility and start getting back to why we are on here which is to share ideas, troubleshoot and welcome a new brand to the family. After all, their lineage came from experiences with all the other brands that many of you are so loyal towards. Can't we all just get along? :)

puppypaws
06-18-2009, 10:16 PM
Stop the Bad Boy LOVE!!! :-)

I'll be glad to see some real time put on these mowers (BB) by more than just the few commercial guys on here that are using them now. Seems like the big guys are going through many mowers every few years and would be in a good position stick one or two of these into their inventories just because the price point is so good. Its all about the green and if these get the job done for less investment then there shouldn't' be any argument.

My dealer told me he had some AOS models in park and recreation departments with over 1000 hrs. and no problems. That is not a bad testimony, because you know they get run into the ground by city and county employees.

retrodog
06-19-2009, 12:00 AM
Our city runs 2 60" lightnings, and brought one to the shop the other day with a spindle broke in half! That tells you how hard they are on them. I asked the operator what he hit, and he said a bunch of stuff, just realized one part of the deck wasn't cutting.....lol. I didn't even have a spindle housing in stock because we were yet to replace one on a BB, but we took one off a new unit so they could be back tearing some turf again...lol. We now keep an extra on hand for that weird just in case incident. you aught to see all the extra reinforcement on the spindle housing, blow my mind how someone could break it in half.....

zman2307
06-19-2009, 12:45 AM
Our city runs 2 60" lightnings, and brought one to the shop the other day with a spindle broke in half! That tells you how hard they are on them. I asked the operator what he hit, and he said a bunch of stuff, just realized one part of the deck wasn't cutting.....lol. I didn't even have a spindle housing in stock because we were yet to replace one on a BB, but we took one off a new unit so they could be back tearing some turf again...lol. We now keep an extra on hand for that weird just in case incident. you aught to see all the extra reinforcement on the spindle housing, blow my mind how someone could break it in half.....

did it bend the deck at all?

DaddyRabbit
06-19-2009, 06:58 AM
I'm sick of hearing about these Bad Boys, I'll take my Ferris and cut the blades off of one of those orange pumpkins. But in order to do that I might risk scratching my deck, ahhh, never mind. :laugh:

kb9nvh
06-19-2009, 07:17 AM
That Ferris would shuuurrr look pritty dooin it too!!

I'm sick of hearing about these Bad Boys, I'll take my Ferris and cut the blades off of one of those orange pumpkins. But in order to do that I might risk scratching my deck, ahhh, never mind. :laugh:

Rons Rightway Lawncare
06-19-2009, 07:54 AM
Lawns ETC #6 was for Razerblades, and it was a joke. I quoted him on it.

#2 if you have to force feed yourself a ZTR it's not for you, this you should know. I can tell you I had zero trouble getting use to sitting high on the Bad Boy after riding the BB, and then hopping on the Walker MT is like driving a low rider:cool2: The Height does not effect the hill climbing ability I have been saying this for over 7 months now, and those new BB owners have said the same thing. Get over the seat height myth.

Had I bought the BadBoy mower I demo'ed last year, It would have cost me tons more time on the lawns, in added string trimmer time, due to the fact that the high seating position kept me from being able to mow under many of my customers trees. It was simular to mowing with my Scag before I removed the ROP bar.

retrodog
06-19-2009, 08:53 AM
did it bend the deck at all?

nope, just swapped the spindle, and they were good to go.

retrodog
06-19-2009, 08:54 AM
Had I bought the BadBoy mower I demo'ed last year, It would have cost me tons more time on the lawns, in added string trimmer time, due to the fact that the high seating position kept me from being able to mow under many of my customers trees. It was simular to mowing with my Scag before I removed the ROP bar.

That has got to be one of the silliest statements I have seen posted on here so far about the BB

puppypaws
06-19-2009, 09:02 AM
nope, just swapped the spindle, and they were good to go.

That makes you a top notch dealer along with a caring person. You have experience with the problems down time can cause. I would dare say there would not have been very many (hardly any), dealers that would have taken a spindle off a new mower to get them going. It would be even less in a large town, dealers are going to order and make you wait, they are not about to take a part off a new machine that could possibly be sold 5 minutes after you walk out their door. I personally can understand this, especially with a municipality, it is a little different when a person is depending on that machine for his survival, which city employees are not.

retrodog
06-19-2009, 10:56 AM
That makes you a top notch dealer along with a caring person. You have experience with the problems down time can cause. I would dare say there would not have been very many (hardly any), dealers that would have taken a spindle off a new mower to get them going. It would be even less in a large town, dealers are going to order and make you wait, they are not about to take a part off a new machine that could possibly be sold 5 minutes after you walk out their door. I personally can understand this, especially with a municipality, it is a little different when a person is depending on that machine for his survival, which city employees are not.

Yeah, but you wouldn't believe how many units the city has sold for us. They tell me they get atleast 4 calls a week asking them how they like the Bad Boys and the service they get. I like to go above and beyond for everyone, not just commercial guys. Anyone could have spent their $5000 to $13000 anywhere else on any 50 zero turn manufacturers product, but they chose to buy it from me. I like to respect that fact as much as I can, especially when they come in for a problem. That is where some of the more popular brands are losing customers here, they are waaay to cocky now. I have an LCO here that buys 6 new diesel mowers every 2 years. He said he had a truck full of guys with 4 mowers on the trailer when he stopped by his dealer that he has bought from for 13 years. He said he waited in line for nearly 40 minutes for a $13.00 part, and it was obvious he was in a hurry. He told me he is never buying a new machine from that dealer again. I told him if he buys 6 diesels from me at a time, I would be his best friend....lol. Oh, you need a part, I'll swing by your house....oh, a belt broke, where are you at, and I will put it on for you....lol

puppypaws
06-19-2009, 11:41 AM
Yeah, but you wouldn't believe how many units the city has sold for us. They tell me they get atleast 4 calls a week asking them how they like the Bad Boys and the service they get. I like to go above and beyond for everyone, not just commercial guys. Anyone could have spent their $5000 to $13000 anywhere else on any 50 zero turn manufacturers product, but they chose to buy it from me. I like to respect that fact as much as I can, especially when they come in for a problem. That is where some of the more popular brands are losing customers here, they are waaay to cocky now. I have an LCO here that buys 6 new diesel mowers every 2 years. He said he had a truck full of guys with 4 mowers on the trailer when he stopped by his dealer that he has bought from for 13 years. He said he waited in line for nearly 40 minutes for a $13.00 part, and it was obvious he was in a hurry. He told me he is never buying a new machine from that dealer again. I told him if he buys 6 diesels from me at a time, I would be his best friend....lol. Oh, you need a part, I'll swing by your house....oh, a belt broke, where are you at, and I will put it on for you....lol

What you said in the line above in bold is what has been lost in this country to a great extent, (putting the customer first). This is the exact reason American companies are falling flat on their faces, they have developed the attitude, you are fortunate I am allowing you to do business with me, I think you used the word "cocky." It is truly amazing how that disposition can change when you are no longer able to meet your financial obligations. It has a tendency to knock the cockiness right out of a company and introduce them into a bowing trait such as the Japanese have, putting the customer back into his rightful position, first.

lawns Etc
06-19-2009, 06:22 PM
OK Got it this morning heres my opinion of it.
Insane power I cut a 1 acre field that was waist high took 3 passes but done in 1 hour start to finish never thought of bogging down.

Seat height I got used to it very quickly in 3 lawns I was comfortable.

Gas gauge is worthless unless 3/4 or more full it shows almost empty and I bet there is 9 gallons in it.

Trim side is reduced down to only 2-3 inches at best due to the shock absorbers in the yolks.

Ride is very good thanks to the seat and the rubber suspension

Cut quality is good

Hydros will take some getting used to as you will spin out very easy. I lowered rear tires to 8 psi and it helped alot.

Foot asssist will definately be needed as it will scalp on some dips but they all will so the foot assist is going on very soon.

All in all it seems like a good mower the best I dont know but its a very good running machine with super power. I put 6.5 hours on it today and definately saved some time over normal as we cut about 1.5 days lawns in 9 hours.

retrodog
06-19-2009, 07:43 PM
All in all it seems like a good mower the best I dont know but its a very good running machine with super power.

What about "best for the price" hands down?

puppypaws
06-19-2009, 07:43 PM
OK Got it this morning heres my opinion of it.
Insane power I cut a 1 acre field that was waist high took 3 passes but done in 1 hour start to finish never thought of bogging down.

Seat height I got used to it very quickly in 3 lawns I was comfortable.

Gas gauge is worthless unless 3/4 or more full it shows almost empty and I bet there is 9 gallons in it.

Trim side is reduced down to only 2-3 inches at best due to the shock absorbers in the yolks.

Ride is very good thanks to the seat and the rubber suspension

Cut quality is good

Hydros will take some getting used to as you will spin out very easy. I lowered rear tires to 8 psi and it helped alot.

Foot asssist will definately be needed as it will scalp on some dips but they all will so the foot assist is going on very soon.

All in all it seems like a good mower the best I dont know but its a very good running machine with super power. I put 6.5 hours on it today and definately saved some time over normal as we cut about 1.5 days lawns in 9 hours.

The power like I showed in pictures before is very difficult for a person to comprehend unless they experience it, along with the way it can handle tremendous amounts of grass and get it out from underneath the deck.

Did the power not blow you away, you really kept looking at what you were cutting and saying to yourself, how is this mower doing this, and the engine never changes sounds. Can you say this would be your feelings towards the power, just plain hard to believe the 32 Vanguard is that strong?

I new you would want the foot assist because unless everything is perfectly flat you need to feather the deck up at times.

The gas gauge is as you stated useless, and I am going to talk with them about a sight gage on the tanks like my Hustler Super Z has. This is the most accurate way of knowing how much fuel is left in a tank; is to see its level.

Running 8 lbs. of air pressure in any zero turn mower gives a much better ride. I can promise if you move up only 2 lbs. to 10, you will be able to tell a difference in ride.

The seat height is truly insignificant, only 5" higher than my low profile Super Z. The short front end gives the mind a different sight impression; than what is actually there.

lawns Etc
06-19-2009, 07:54 PM
I caant say its the best because I have only put 6 hours on it in one day. Im not the kind of person who speaks before he really feels confidence in what I am saying. I will say that its the best value for the dollar.

puppypaws
06-19-2009, 08:07 PM
I caant say its the best because I have only put 6 hours on it in one day. Im not the kind of person who speaks before he really feels confidence in what I am saying. I will say that its the best value for the dollar.

No one is asking you to say it is the best, because I don't think there is really such a thing, some mowers do certain things better than others.

I do believe you can say without doubt it is the strongest engine on a zero turn mower you have ever experienced and the mower will handle the largest grass with the most ease of any mower you have operated, is this true?

retrodog
06-19-2009, 08:08 PM
We got our new Bad Boy trailers in today, would be a good addition to any Bad Boy mower....these are sweeeet Hey guys, seriously, you really don't like the way these look? It has to be the eye of the beholder....I guess I am like one of those friends that has the really ugly girlfriend but thinks she is a 10.....

lawns Etc
06-19-2009, 08:18 PM
I( doth think it leaves as crisp of a cut in wet thick grass as the 7 Iron or Everride Warrior but its very good. Power is more than anyone will ever need most likely but its nice to have it just in case.

retrodog
06-19-2009, 08:28 PM
We got our new Bad Boy trailers in today, would be a good addition to any Bad Boy mower....these are sweeeet
couldn't get the pics to come up....but figured it out

Apples
06-19-2009, 08:50 PM
Congrats on the new mower lawns ETC. Retro that is some excellent customer service! As far as longevity, I think Roy from Meg-Mo's blades has been running Bad Boys the longest. I think he also uses a flex deck on his mower. I would like to hear how he is making out with his mowers.

kb9nvh
06-19-2009, 09:03 PM
Picked mine up today...was going to shoot some pictures before I cut but that didn't work out..LOL Getting dark, made a few passes and parked it. I want to inspect the fuel lines before I mow to much so I don't get accused of not doing maintenance if the thing blows up on me..(can you say gunshy). First impression, drives different than my scag cub so will have to get used to that. Runs way faster but that will only be useful in wide open spaces. Little touchy on the hydros so have to learn its quirks. Cut at 3" seemed to leave lots of clover..dropped to 2.5 and it looks about the same as my cub did. The power chute is either open or closed....I think I would like a few settings to keep the grass from shooting too far or throwing a rock at a car. The manual lift pedal...well, the deck is heavy and I wonder if I was going over a curb I might not drop the deck in the bounce...??? Would like it LOCKUP on the pedal I think. The thing rides like a Cadillac compared to my cub. Will talk more tomorrow..with pictures..

puppypaws
06-19-2009, 10:13 PM
Picked mine up today...was going to shoot some pictures before I cut but that didn't work out..LOL Getting dark, made a few passes and parked it. I want to inspect the fuel lines before I mow to much so I don't get accused of not doing maintenance if the thing blows up on me..(can you say gunshy). First impression, drives different than my scag cub so will have to get used to that. Runs way faster but that will only be useful in wide open spaces. Little touchy on the hydros so have to learn its quirks. Cut at 3" seemed to leave lots of clover..dropped to 2.5 and it looks about the same as my cub did. The power chute is either open or closed....I think I would like a few settings to keep the grass from shooting too far or throwing a rock at a car. The manual lift pedal...well, the deck is heavy and I wonder if I was going over a curb I might not drop the deck in the bounce...??? Would like it LOCKUP on the pedal I think. The thing rides like a Cadillac compared to my cub. Will talk more tomorrow..with pictures..

That is the kind of things I like to know so I can move them up the line. My foot assist on my Super Z locks in transport and will not come out until you push the foot assist to take pressure off to pull up the locking lever. Does the deck lift easy enough that you wife would have no problem?

I have never operated the foot assist on a Bad Boy so I would like to know the exact function. Does the deck raise up, and release easily to go down? My Super Z takes very little effort to lift the deck, so easy my wife has no problem and if I am not careful I will raise it into transport position before I realize it. I can tell if it starts getting a little harder to raise, I automatically know the spring rods are dirty. I take a can of starting fluid and hold a piece of cardboard under the rods and wash them clean with ether, I then hold the same cardboard under the spring rods and spray a light coat of Fluid Film over the springs and rods. It then lifts very smoothly and easy enough for a woman to raise the deck with no problems.

You are leaving the clover at 3" because you are not getting low enough to cut the junk!

Rons Rightway Lawncare
06-19-2009, 10:15 PM
That has got to be one of the silliest statements I have seen posted on here so far about the BB

Silly? Sure it is silly, thats cause your not on my lawns and your not taking into account just how low the seat is on a TigerCub/ Wildcat.

I would bet you that my seat is a good foot lower than the seat on the badboy, maybe even lower than that.

That might not make much difference to you, or might be Silly to you, but it was causing me to have to go under some trees with the trimmer that I could have mowed under with my Scag.

I understand that compared to some other mowers, the seat height on the badboy is not as different as it was compared to my mower, but it is what it is.... at least for me.

I am not a badboy hater, and I am not a scag fan either. I am just bring up points of observations I have made from my experiences.

To someone who knows no better ( such as kb9nvh ) if they listen to everything you guys say about the Badboy mowers, they will believe they are getting the best mower ever made on earth. And it is a good mower, but it does have it's drawbacks as well.

Rons Rightway Lawncare
06-19-2009, 10:39 PM
This is what I said after I demo'ed a Badboy last year

Bad Boy mower ( my opinion, and thoughts on them )

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Two days ago I got a chance to demo a new BB lightning for half a days worth of cutting.

In my area there is several dealers that apparently sell the BB line of mowers, but one dealer ( STI Turf Care ) is a large dealer and they have been selling BB's for a few years.

I never bothered to even look at one till about 2 weeks ago. I had to run up to Turf care to pick up a bearing for my Scag Wildcat, while waiting for my turn at the parts desk I was browsing the floor looking at new mowers, and they had a pair of badboy mowers parked next to the sales desk.

First thing that caught my eye on the BB was the suspension. My Scag rides rough, there is no suspension and the run flat tires in the front are hard and the rear tires are fairly stiff too. I have several yards that aren't in the best shape and needless to say I take alot of abuse riding around on a stiff mower. The idea behind getting a mower with true suspension really appeals to me.

so I quickly look over the BB, and didn't see anything that turned me off. The price was right too, the 60 inch lightning they had, had a 7499$ price tag with a free 500$ gas card as a incentive. I have never paid more than 7500$ for a mower, and the last 5 or so ZTR's I have bought over the years all were between 7000-7500$ so the price is something I am comfortable with, but what makes the price more appealing is that most of the big brand mowers have jumped up to 8500-9500$ for a comparable mower.

So anyway, I got my bearings and fixed my scag and forgot about the Badboy till last week. I got to thinking about the bad boy and the suspension and how much I would love to have a smoother ride. So I surfed the hell out of the net trying to learn as much as possible about the mower. And to be fair and honest, I didn't learn that much. The Bad Boy website doesn't have enough info on the mowers in my opinion, and searching on this site typically turned up positive comments from the few dealers that sell BB that also post here and negative comments from several ignorant people, comments such as the BB is ugly, or the company hasn't been around long enough for a good track record, etc....

So I went back to the dealership last Saturday and spent a while just going over the machine, visually inspecting it. I was impressed. I honestly didn't notice anything that looked cheesy, underbuilt, poorly designed, etc.... The shop was closing so there was no time to fire up the mower and drive it outside for me to ride it around in the parking lot, so I asked them to set up a demo for me asap that I wanted to buy one, and if it worked as good as it looked I was already sold.

So fast forward to this past Wednesday, I finally got a chance to demo the mower. STI's field salesman brought the mower to me and let me have it for several hours. I used it to cut about 13 yards, and each yard had different turf conditions, some flat... some hilly... some nice fescue... some fescue mixed with bermuda.... some fescue mixed with all kinds of stringy weeds.... And also noteworthy was we had thunderstorms Tuesday evening so the ground was not soaking wet, but wasn't dry and dusty either.

So getting to the nitty gritty here with my story, I demoed the unit, and here is what I found.


Negatives......

First off I didn't notice this in the store, but noticed it on the demo... There are two design screw ups that stand out right away. First, the parking brake when fully on is too tall, the seats left arm rest hits the top of the brake lever and I see this causing damage in no time to the arm rest. Secondly, the choke knob is on the right side of the mower, beside the seat, and it does not stay on by itself. And the key start is also on the right side, so it takes two hands to start the engine, one to hold the choke on and one to turn the key to start.

Another issue is the electric deck lift. The lift moves fairly fast and it is not very hard, but it is difficult to stop the deck at a specific height. Also there is no hard stop you can pre select that will allow you to set the height to say 3.5 inches and allow you to raise the deck to clear a curb or stump and then lower back to the 3.5 inches fast and easy.... with this electric lift, once you lift the deck you would have to stop mowing and look down at the height indicator as you lower the deck and stop at the height you desire or else you could easily end up cutting lower than you wanted to. Having the electric lift was nice, but the mower needs some kind of mechanical means of pre selecting cutting height, and probably also should have a standard foot lift pedal to help you quickly and easily lift and lower the deck to allow you to "float" the deck over stumps and so on.

Another issue was the seat height. It is really high! Especially coming from my Scag Wildcat, which has one of the lowest seat heights on the market. The tallness of the BB seat was only a problem for two reasons, one I couldn't get under some trees I can ride under on the scag and then loading the mower in my trailer, I had to really duck my head to avoid hitting it on the roof as I stepped up and off the machine inside the trailer since the seat and foot platform was significantly higher than my scag.

Last issue was the tires too easily ripped up turf as I went around trees and made turns. Any ZTR mower will put a hurting on the turf as you make turns and go around stuff, but the tires on this Bad Boy were the worst at digging into the dirt and ripping up grass. To be fair, I demo'ed a Everride mower twice last year and it had simular tires and it too ripped up the turf far too easily. Maybe a change over to different tires would help.

The front casters did not like to easily change direction. When backing up they would stay in the same position they were in when going forward for quite a while then if they turned around it would be sudden and most of the time the tires would dig a small divot into the turf. I did not have the time to lift the front end of the mower to check to see if the front casters were over tightened and were hard to turn... That may have been why this was happening, The salesman told me after the demo that he felt the weight of the caster assembly itself with the suspension was the reason the casters resisted castering.



positives......

The machine was smooth riding. But I do have to say that I did not see the front forks suspension move one bit. I think the rubber donuts up there are too stiff to be of much use. I feel like the rear suspension is moving somewhat, helping smooth out the ride, but overall the main thing that makes this mower ride smooth is the suspension seat. I confirmed this by changing the setting on the seat to the lowest weight setting and this basically bottomed out the seat, and once bottomed out the ride was only a little better than my scag. Eitherway though, as a package, the machine did have a smoother ride.

One thing about the suspension though, is the left side of the front caster forks would too easily rub against stuff as you try to mow close to fence posts and walls, trees, etc... If the caster didn't have the rubber shocks I don't think it would rub at all, but with the shocks it did rub. Seeing how I never saw the front suspension move I think I would rather have the non suspension front end. I would want to keep the rear suspension though.


The machine is fast. When at full throttle ( governer was set at about 3250 rpms when the machine was dropped off to me, but I reset the governer to 3600 rpms to see if it cut better and handled better with the additional rpms, and it did! ) and you push the levers full forward or full reverse, this machine goes extremely fast for a mower. Too fast to cut in my opinion but if you need to transport the mower under it's own power, this speed would help save you time.

The deck did not scalp the lawn in areas my scag would have scalped on. I think this is mainly due to the wheels being closer to the width of the deck where my scags wheels are not nearly as wide as the mowers deck.

Netural.....


The cut was acceptable, but not as good as my scag. It didn't seem to discharge as far as the scag and it didn't seem to have as much wind coming out of the deck as the scag. I tryed laying down some strips with it, and if I followed existing strips in the yard it did good, but laying down new strips with it... it did lay some down, but they weren't as deep looking as the scags would have been. A couple things that did impress me about the cut was the mower had very little to no blowout in the front of the deck and the mower could cut almost as good going backwards as going forward, no other commercial mower I have used will leave a acceptable look if mowed in reverse, the bad boy did. All in all I would say that the mower has a acceptable cut and would satisfy most people.


I measured with a tape measure and the true blade height was not the same as indicated height on the height indicator... It was off anywhere from 1/4 of a inch to over 1/2 a inch. To be fair my Scag is off a solid 1/2 inch at all settings, just would be nice to have a indicator that shows the true height.

Handling overall the mower just felt bulky to me. Bear in mind that my Scag Wildcat is like a small sportscar compared to most big zero turns, so someone coming off a Scag Turf Tiger or a Big Exmark or Hustler probably won't feel the Bad Boy is bulky, but for me it just felt too bulky and oversized for cutting typical residential " Charlotte cookie cutter neighborhood" yards. To be fair, I have used the Turf tiger for several days earlier this year and it too felt too big and bulky, but not as bulky as the bad boy, probably cause the seat is lower on the scag TT. The flipside to the bulky feeling is The bad boy is a fast, smooth mower and I think it would be in it's prime element on larger, open properties.

This mower had a 26 horse liquid cooled Kawasaki on it, and it felt like it had enough power. The engine would slightly bog - according to the tach/ hourmeter it would loose roughly 200 rpms when it would "bog" - if you were cutting and went up a semi steep hill or really pushed the sticks forward quickly.


All in all I think it is a good machine. It is certainly alot of machine for the price. I think I would demo both the non suspension version of the lightning ( but with a suspension seat ) and the suspension version, and I am willing to bet that the non suspension version rides nearly as smooth, and this mower would be even cheaper and would probably be the better one to get. I feel that from what I saw, the mower should be a good solid mower, built well and easy to work on too. There were some faults, and design goof ups ( like the parking brake and choke knob placement and the deck height/lift lack of pre set height settings ) But all mowers have a few examples of weird engineering and or design issues.

I think the mower is certainly a equal mower to other big brand mowers. It is certainly worth your consideration if your shopping for a new mower. It appeared to be extremely well built, yet easy to work on.

Ultimately I decided to pass on purchasing one for now. I would want to demo the non suspensed version, and overall the bulky feeling of the mower was my biggest turn off. If I were using this mower to mow wide open areas I would have bought it, but I use my mower to mow small residential lawns, lawns most would probably use a 48-52 inch stander or walk behind on, not a 61 inch rider... and the Wildcat is about as big of a unit as I want to run on these properties, and the Bad boy feels noticably larger, even thought it probably isn't much bigger or heavier on paper.

I would reccomend a Bad Boy to others and would say overall I liked it

puppypaws
06-20-2009, 12:07 AM
The front casters did not like to easily change direction. When backing up they would stay in the same position they were in when going forward for quite a while then if they turned around it would be sudden and most of the time the tires would dig a small divot into the turf. I did not have the time to lift the front end of the mower to check to see if the front casters were over tightened and were hard to turn... That may have been why this was happening, The salesman told me after the demo that he felt the weight of the caster assembly itself with the suspension was the reason the casters resisted castering.


The machine was smooth riding. But I do have to say that I did not see the front forks suspension move one bit. I think the rubber donuts up there are too stiff to be of much use. I feel like the rear suspension is moving somewhat, helping smooth out the ride, but overall the main thing that makes this mower ride smooth is the suspension seat. I confirmed this by changing the setting on the seat to the lowest weight setting and this basically bottomed out the seat, and once bottomed out the ride was only a little better than my scag. Eitherway though, as a package, the machine did have a smoother ride.

Seeing how I never saw the front suspension move I think I would rather have the non suspension front end. I would want to keep the rear suspension though.

Handling overall the mower just felt bulky to me. Bear in mind that my Scag Wildcat is like a small sportscar compared to most big zero turns, so someone coming off a Scag Turf Tiger or a Big Exmark or Hustler probably won't feel the Bad Boy is bulky, but for me it just felt too bulky and oversized for cutting typical residential " Charlotte cookie cutter neighborhood" yards.



This is in response to the past review....

The front casters were over tightened on that particular mower, it is a very fine line from being too tight or too loose. When they are loose the wheels will shimmy to the point of having to stop and start again on hard surfaces.
They must be adjusted properly. This is not the mowers fault and is not a problem.

Believe me the front suspension is working whether you thought it was or not.
Even with the Michigan suspension seat, when you hit a bump fast you will feel a great deal of jar from the front end without the flex rubber suspension.
The rubber compound does need to be softer for the lighter weight Lightning model, the heavier AOS rides better because it is heavy enough to cause the rubber to compress easier and remove more shock.

This mower does not fit your needs period, if all you are cutting is postage stamp size lawns and no large areas where time is money.

Quiky One
06-20-2009, 12:32 AM
Rons rightway, thanks for the very detailed review. Hopefully you can get another demo on it later and see if your opinion changes.

Jason

puppypaws
06-20-2009, 12:12 PM
To someone who knows no better ( such as kb9nvh ) if they listen to everything you guys say about the Badboy mowers, they will believe they are getting the best mower ever made on earth. And it is a good mower, but it does have it's drawbacks as well.

Ron, Ron, Ron, your making "kb9nvh" out to be an imbecile, without enough intelligence to gather information and make rational decisions, but only reading and believing everything he sees on LawnSite.

"kb9nvh" is a BSEE electrical engineer civilian employee for the US Navy doing surveillance and reliability testing on batteries for use in weapons systems. I feel assured he is capable of doing his homework and making very intelligent decisions on any purchases he believes to be needed.

The statement, "To someone who knows no better (such as kb9nvh)", could be considered the true definition of "condescending."

Quote:

Condescension meaning in noun format

1. The trait of displaying arrogance by patronizing those considered inferior.

There is a possibility you may want to consider an apology for a statement of this type, made to a person of his extreme intelligence.

kb9nvh
06-20-2009, 02:01 PM
LOL....Its OK, hey, I've been known to make some bad decisions before. I've found that you can never have enough information and at some point you have to jump in and buy something. I'm an over analyzer by nature so I have to sometimes limit my studying time and just go for it.

Here's some pictures from today:
http://picasaweb.google.com/grimshady/BADBOYMowing_2009_06_20#


Often times when you dont have the expertise to make a decision yourself you have to rely on others who do have the experience.

After mowing with the BB all morning I can say I'm not dissatisfied with the purchase, however, its not the SCAG cub and the two mowers both have their strong points and weak.

The cub was a good size for my yard (but not big enough for the rentals). Now I've got a mower that will be great for the rentals but cumbersome for my yard....so its a trade off that maybe I hadn't considered as much as I should have (after buying the SCAG I had often lamented the fact that I didn't get the 60" cut though).

getting used to the new mower:
What I loved:
Nice smooth ride even in the bumpy stuff I can mow all day on the BB and the front shocks work as advertised I could see them moving in the rough.

Crazy fast and plenty of power to mow any normal depth of grass.

Quality build..look at the gas line shot in my photos...the tank has a threaded nipple just like I had suggested as a safety measure for SCAG.

Muffler is "back" and above the motor deck meaning no gas will flow off the deck directly onto the hot muffler

Everything being larger it seems to mow quieter with a lower deeper pitch. I don't think I'll need earplugs like I did on the scag and my wheelhorse (but I'll probably where them anyway).

the plain and simple design (deck and mower frame) makes it easy to clean grass off and out of.

Now some Bad:
This morning the grass was very wet....the clover was laid flat by the BB tires and after cutting I left rows. Hope this doesn't happen when dry.

the cut leaves me underwhelmed. Although the velocity deck on the scag didn't win any prizes on my grass, it seemed better than the BB deck (but maybe some of that is that its 12" bigger and the cut height is maybe not consistent between mowers. The cutting heights are not consistent across my mowers so I need to measure the blade height and figure out just where I need to cut so I can do a fair comparison. I had the BB set to 2.5" and I think its cutting higher that the SCAG did at 2.5". Also, my wheelhorse is even a closer cut so, for me to compare cut I need to at least get the height consistent.

The BB has huge power but the waist high brush (see photo) did bog me down (height set to max) and I had to slow up and still the cut was very incomplete. The BB still will bush hog all day but not at top speed.

Take a look at the shots and if anyone has any questions feel free to ask.

I mowed my yard, my local rental and the neighbor girl who hadn't mowed her yard for a month...felt bad for her kid who had not place to play...


Ron, Ron, Ron, your making "kb9nvh" out to be an imbecile, without enough intelligence to gather information and make rational decisions, but only reading and believing everything he sees on LawnSite.

"kb9nvh" is a BSEE electrical engineer civilian employee for the US Navy doing surveillance and reliability testing on batteries for use in weapons systems. I feel assured he is capable of doing his homework and making very intelligent decisions on any purchases he believes to be needed.

The statement, "To someone who knows no better (such as kb9nvh)", could be considered the true definition of "condescending."

Quote:

Condescension meaning in noun format

1. The trait of displaying arrogance by patronizing those considered inferior.

There is a possibility you may want to consider an apology for a statement of this type, made to a person of his extreme intelligence.

MS_SURVEYOR
06-20-2009, 03:26 PM
I looked at the pictures. For what you're cutting, it looks pretty darn good for a first raw mow. That's some nasty looking weeds and brush! I've got the same thing going on. Things are looking much better after the second cutting. I'll say this. Anything would have a hard time making that grown up mess look good on one pass through.

My BAD GRASS!

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu216/MS-SURVEYOR/PhotoMoto0151.jpg?t=1245525804

My MIL's GOOD GRASS!

http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu216/MS-SURVEYOR/June-12-2009016.jpg?t=1245525885

12thKY
06-20-2009, 03:59 PM
the cut leaves me underwhelmed. Although the velocity deck on the scag didn't win any prizes on my grass, it seemed better than the BB deck (but maybe some of that is that its 12" bigger and the cut height is maybe not consistent between mowers. The cutting heights are not consistent across my mowers so I need to measure the blade height and figure out just where I need to cut so I can do a fair comparison. I had the BB set to 2.5" and I think its cutting higher that the SCAG did at 2.5". Also, my wheelhorse is even a closer cut so, for me to compare cut I need to at least get the height consistent.


You need to measure your blades, the 2 1/2 setting will be anywhere from 3" to 3 1/2" Also check your pitch while you at it. Should be a 1/8" to a 1/4", rear being higher. Clover blooms are very hard to cut at higher settings, they wave around like a flag, and often are blown down to pop back up after you pass over it.

puppypaws
06-20-2009, 04:56 PM
[QUOTE=kb9nvh;3053375]

Now some Bad:
This morning the grass was very wet....the clover was laid flat by the BB tires and after cutting I left rows. Hope this doesn't happen when dry.

the cut leaves me underwhelmed. Although the velocity deck on the scag didn't win any prizes on my grass, it seemed better than the BB deck (but maybe some of that is that its 12" bigger and the cut height is maybe not consistent between mowers. The cutting heights are not consistent across my mowers so I need to measure the blade height and figure out just where I need to cut so I can do a fair comparison. I had the BB set to 2.5" and I think its cutting higher that the SCAG did at 2.5". Also, my wheelhorse is even a closer cut so, for me to compare cut I need to at least get the height consistent.

The BB has huge power but the waist high brush (see photo) did bog me down (height set to max) and I had to slow up and still the cut was very incomplete. The BB still will bush hog all day but not at top speed.

QUOTE]

I have not looked at the pictures you've posted yet, but before I do, I can tell you the Bad Boy is cutting higher than you were with your other mowers.
To cut clover with any consistency, it must be done at a very low cutting height. I can tell from what you are saying, your mowers are all cutting at different heights, with the BB cutting higher than the Cub and Wheelhorse.

You will learn not to give attention to the gage numbers except for one reason. Once your mower is cutting the height you are completely satisfied with, whether it be on the number 1, 1 1/2, 2 or 2 1/2 it really makes no difference, you use that number as a reference point to go back to each time. The number does not need to coincide with the height you are cutting, it is really only needed for a reference point. You can adjust everything to make the numbers work correctly, but it is not worth the time.

I went back and looked at the pictures before I said anymore. I can see you are attempting to mow damp junk with very little grass. You are mowing too high for the concoction you are attempting to cut. If this were pure fescue or a blend of pure grass you could mow it higher and it would look good. Mowing the type junk you are mowing (which I am very familiar with), you must mow at a lower height to get a good smooth even cut. That is the main problem and mowing it damp is adding to the difficulties.

I can say without doubt if you were attempting to mow that jungle at any other time of the day, except for the hottest, dryest part of the day, that was your first mistake. I would never attempt to cut anything like that until after 2:00 pm. You will lose probably 6 to 8 engine hp just for the reason of it being damp, I wish you had left some of the really big junk and tried it again about 4:00 pm, so you could see how much difference this makes, you would think it was a different machine.

My wife was cutting this at 3 pm with a Hustler Super Z, Kohler 28 hp efi with a 66" deck, and believe me it was much worse than what you are cutting there. I had attempted to cut it earlier in the year before it got hot and dry and it would not begin to cut it, not enough mower and power. I had "Tomberlawn" cut a couple of rounds in this mess with his 33 hp Generac and I told him to get out of it and I would cut it for hay. My wife can't stand the grass to look bad, I came home from some errands and looked to see the big grass gone in a large area and she was mowing up and down the waterway. I thought to myself, it is truly amazing how much difference the hot dry conditions make, I honestly could not believe she was mowing in that area. Had it been in the morning there would have been no mowing this period, end of sentence.

This is exactly what it looked like when she started.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=152058&stc=1&d=1245358417



The picture is where "TomberLawn" left it, and this is what she mowed.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=152059&stc=1&d=1245358488

chrisduryea
06-21-2009, 06:37 AM
Good to see your happy with your purchase, happy mowing.

Like all machines in the wet their not the best especially cutting that thick stuff. But when you get it down it will cut much better.

The ACS has the little silver cam which can keep the chute open a small amount, so it's not totally closed. Only good for allowing a little airflow.
If it is a bit hard to close it could be that the bolts where it hinges are a bit tight, you could loosen these a bit more to make it easier to open/close or tighten them up and then it will stay in whatever position you set it.

They are a simple machine with the idea being KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid), like the easy access to things is that you will actually have a look and clean it out. Most of the time a blower is all that is needed.

Cheers Chris

lawns Etc
06-21-2009, 07:13 AM
Well my mower was cutting about 1" higher than the gauge said I had to cut on 2 1/4 all day to be at 3 1/4 but I called my dealer and he told me how to fix it and it took 5 minutes and now its right on.

Set the front tip of the blades to 3" swing the gas tank with the PTO control out and follow the gold height indicator rod back to a round cam it has an allen set screw in it,loosen the screw and you can set the indicator to whatever number you want then tighten it down. It took me less than 5 minutes and now its right on at 3" where I normally cut and at 4" its within 1/8" so it works well now.

kb9nvh
06-21-2009, 07:31 AM
Humm, so why the hell didn't BB do this at the factory or the dealer?
I think my SCAG inches indiator was accurate.

Seems like if they are gonna put "inches" on the guage then they should try to make it accurate?

Oh well, good to know....I was mowing too high yesterday and its was wet so that left me with an underwhelmed impression of the cut quailty.


Well my mower was cutting about 1" higher than the gauge said I had to cut on 2 1/4 all day to be at 3 1/4 but I called my dealer and he told me how to fix it and it took 5 minutes and now its right on.

Set the front tip of the blades to 3" swing the gas tank with the PTO control out and follow the gold height indicator rod back to a round cam it has an allen set screw in it,loosen the screw and you can set the indicator to whatever number you want then tighten it down. It took me less than 5 minutes and now its right on at 3" where I normally cut and at 4" its within 1/8" so it works well now.

Rons Rightway Lawncare
06-21-2009, 08:54 AM
This year we have had so much rain ( beats the hell out of the droughts we are usually in this time of the year....) That I have had to mow several times in pouring down rain, and countless times I have had to go out and mow wet grass. Matter of fact my first few lawns of the day are always wet due to the morning dew. The Scags Velocity Plus deck does a fantastic job in these conditions.


I have also checked the height indicator on over 6 different Scag ZTR mowers and each one was off by anywhere from 1/4 of a inch to 1/2 a inch, the the cut being lower than the indicated height.

puppypaws
06-21-2009, 08:55 AM
Humm, so why the hell didn't BB do this at the factory or the dealer?
I think my SCAG inches indiator was accurate.

Seems like if they are gonna put "inches" on the guage then they should try to make it accurate?

Oh well, good to know....I was mowing too high yesterday and its was wet so that left me with an underwhelmed impression of the cut quailty.


QUOTE]

I have not looked at the pictures you've posted yet, but before I do, I can tell you the Bad Boy is cutting higher than you were with your other mowers.
To cut clover with any consistency, it must be done at a very low cutting height. I can tell from what you are saying, your mowers are all cutting at different heights, with the BB cutting higher than the Cub and Wheelhorse.

You will learn not to give attention to the gage numbers except for one reason. Once your mower is cutting the height you are completely satisfied with, whether it be on the number 1, 1 1/2, 2 or 2 1/2 it really makes no difference, you use that number as a reference point to go back to each time. The number does not need to coincide with the height you are cutting, it is really only needed for a reference point. You can adjust everything to make the numbers work correctly, but it is not worth the time.

[/QUOTE]

You must not have read this post, I could see immediately you were cutting higher than you thought. You will rarely see a mower cutting height match the gage. The first thing I do is reduce the air pressure greatly below what is normally recommended on most mowers for a better ride, this along will change the cutting height.

Rons Rightway Lawncare
06-21-2009, 09:02 AM
Ron, Ron, Ron, your making "kb9nvh" out to be an imbecile, without enough intelligence to gather information and make rational decisions, but only reading and believing everything he sees on LawnSite.

"kb9nvh" is a BSEE electrical engineer civilian employee for the US Navy doing surveillance and reliability testing on batteries for use in weapons systems. I feel assured he is capable of doing his homework and making very intelligent decisions on any purchases he believes to be needed.

The statement, "To someone who knows no better (such as kb9nvh)", could be considered the true definition of "condescending."

Quote:

Condescension meaning in noun format

1. The trait of displaying arrogance by patronizing those considered inferior.

There is a possibility you may want to consider an apology for a statement of this type, made to a person of his extreme intelligence.

He could be the smartest man on earth, and still not know enough about mowers to make a smart choice on how to choose one, how to operate one, and how to maintain one.

My point with the comments was to parallel the way Bad Boy mowers are promoted here almost as much or more so to the BOP Quick line of walkbehinds. Anyone who has done this for a while knows what a true commercial walkbehind is, and those BOP mowers just aren't there yet. But due to all the hype, people are buying them like crazy, and if you start paying attention to all the threads, there are people starting to comment that hey..... these things aren't all that and a bag of chips afterall.

The badboy mowers are good mowers. I just don't think they are the best. And they aren't the value they seem to be once you factor in all the added options that are standard on other makes, and consider most other mowers... the dealer can come down some on the price, just like buying a new car, but not badboys, they have the same no dicker sticker approach that Carmax uses and considering the discounts on other makes and the firm price on the BB, the BB may even cost more...

kb9nvh
06-21-2009, 09:48 AM
Nope, I read it. I guess, since cutting height can depend on many things it would be hard to get it down perfectly. Also, if SCAG cuts lower than the setting and the BB cuts higher then there's no way I was comparing apples to apples. I'll try again next week.

Thinking of the differences in "brand" mowers compared to commercial "value mowers". Looks like we first have to set aside the main components which are identical like engines, and hydraulic motors and pumps, and blade spindles and look at more esoteric items like ride quality, handleing, ease of maintinance, manufacturer support, cut quality, and hill stability, and safety and anything else deemed as design quality or how well thought out the entire package is.

Its hard for me to compare the BB lightning to my SCAG cub because they are really different mowers. Cut width, and mower dimension and weight just make the lightning a different machine. Where the cub was more nimble and easier to get tighter around corners the BB cant cut the corners quite as easilly. I would say the BB has a more touchy feel to it and a little less "throw" of the controls would be nice to get full speed (adjustable I know). Nothing I cant get used to. Ride quality and speed, the BB beats the cub hands down. I did get a free roll bar on the cub but the list price for my BB was about 200 more and I got a 13mph mower, 31hp kaw, 60" deck, and full suspension and michigan seat compared to a 10mph mower, 19hp kaw, and a 48" deck and no suspension or seat.

Jury is still out on the cut quality and I hope that I was just mowing too high and the rows of wet clover that got pushed down by the wheels will get sucked back into the blade at a lower setting. At this point I'm thinking the Velocity deck just did a better job but I do have high lift blades on the SCAG and I dont know whats on the BB.



QUOTE]

You must not have read this post, I could see immediately you were cutting higher than you thought. You will rarely see a mower cutting height match the gage. The first thing I do is reduce the air pressure greatly below what is normally recommended on most mowers for a better ride, this along will change the cutting height.

kb9nvh
06-21-2009, 10:35 AM
OK, I went out and measured what I cut yesterday and it was way higher than I thought. The BB was set to 3.5" at first (I had usually cut with my SCAG set to 2.5" and I dont know if that was actually 2.25 or what). Later I lowered the BB to what ended up about 2.75".

At 2.75" in the wet grass the tires still left rows of uncut grass where it did not get sucked back up into the blades. I'll report back afte the next cut and when its dry.

puppypaws
06-21-2009, 12:31 PM
OK, I went out and measured what I cut yesterday and it was way higher than I thought. The BB was set to 3.5" at first (I had usually cut with my SCAG set to 2.5" and I dont know if that was actually 2.25 or what). Later I lowered the BB to what ended up about 2.75".

At 2.75" in the wet grass the tires still left rows of uncut grass where it did not get sucked back up into the blades. I'll report back afte the next cut and when its dry.

I could look at the picture and tell you were high, fine for pure grass, but very poor for clover and a "dukes mixture" of grasses and weeds. You must cut clover very low to get what appears to be a clean smoother cut. I'm more than positive with the narrow Scag deck there was also stronger suction. You only need to drop your cutting height on the clover into the 2.5" range or less, you will then see what you are looking to accomplish. I can tell you that mower will cut anything you wish to cut, and make it look the way you would like, with a little experimenting. Your mower has the blades and power to scalp to the dirt if that is what someone wants.

kb9nvh
06-21-2009, 03:21 PM
OK, here's an update. I went out and recut my lawn with a setting of 1.5" (giving me a 2" cut. This is about what I was cutting at before. Anyway, the cut was beautiful with no stringers/clovers or anything weirdness. The grass was dryer today (but it did rain a bit this morning so it wasn't as dry as it could be).

Even the wildweeds in the back I took a cut at them with that low setting and it did a remarkable job on the first pass with a second pass almost making it like the rest of the lawn.

So, yesterdays poor report was due to my inexperience. I dont know what the height limit is to start getting a marginal cut but setting the indicator at 1.5" gave me a 2" cut and it left nothing standing and it all was even. My wife will probably want me to raise it up some though maybe 1/2".

kb9nvh
06-21-2009, 04:01 PM
Here's are shots from todays second run:
http://picasaweb.google.com/grimshady/BadBoy_RecutatLowerSetting_2009_06_20#
http://www.grimlabs.com/BADBOY/IMG_1752x.jpg

http://www.grimlabs.com/BADBOY/IMG_1755x.jpg

http://www.grimlabs.com/BADBOY/IMG_1756x.jpg

http://www.grimlabs.com/BADBOY/IMG_1754x.jpg

http://www.grimlabs.com/BADBOY/IMG_1753x.jpg

MS_SURVEYOR
06-21-2009, 04:45 PM
OK, here's an update. I went out and recut my lawn with a setting of 1.5" (giving me a 2" cut. This is about what I was cutting at before. Anyway, the cut was beautiful with no stringers/clovers or anything weirdness. The grass was dryer today (but it did rain a bit this morning so it wasn't as dry as it could be).

Even the wildweeds in the back I took a cut at them with that low setting and it did a remarkable job on the first pass with a second pass almost making it like the rest of the lawn.

So, yesterdays poor report was due to my inexperience. I dont know what the height limit is to start getting a marginal cut but setting the indicator at 1.5" gave me a 2" cut and it left nothing standing and it all was even. My wife will probably want me to raise it up some though maybe 1/2".


Thanks kb9nvh and puppypaws,

That report will help me right away! I'm just getting to my second cut on my bad lands. Things are looking very good.

Thanks,

ms

puppypaws
06-21-2009, 05:57 PM
Thanks kb9nvh and puppypaws,

That report will help me right away! I'm just getting to my second cut on my bad lands. Things are looking very good.

Thanks,

ms

You and kb9nvh got the meaning, now you are good to go. Set you air pressure where you get the most comfortable ride (not below 8 lbs.), then lower the deck to get the cut height you want. Remember your number setting on the gage, then you will get the same cut every time unless your blades get to dull or your deck gets out of pitch. I personally have never had a Bobcat or Hustler deck pitch need adjusting.

When I got the Lightning to demo, I noticed it was not cutting evenly on one side. I called the sales rep immediately and told him there was a problem with the cut. He came back, loaded the mower and carried it to the dealers shop. When he brought the mower back, he said there was a bent blade on the deck. What that told me was, whoever had the mower before me either really abused it, or hit something very hard they were not aware was in the area.

They checked the spindles, installed a new set of blades, he brought the mower back and we both cut with it. I told him the deck must not be pitched correctly, but surely they checked it while it was at the shop. He called and asked, they told him the pitch had not been checked. I told him; I could not believe a mower shop that had a mower come in knowing it hit something hard enough to bend a blade did not check the deck pitch.

He was a super nice person and said he did not understand it himself but had a pitch gage in his truck. We set the mower on level concrete, checked it with the gage and it was off close to 1", he and I checked it on all 4 corners for level and set the front 1/4" lower than the back. The correct way of doing this is to turn the mower blade perfectly straight with the mower itself. You should then have from 1/8" to no more than 3/8" difference in blade height from front to back, with the front of the blade nearest the front of the deck being lower by that much distance.

Rons Rightway Lawncare
06-21-2009, 10:02 PM
Here's are shots from todays second run:
http://picasaweb.google.com/grimshady/BadBoy_RecutatLowerSetting_2009_06_20#
http://www.grimlabs.com/BADBOY/IMG_1752x.jpg

http://www.grimlabs.com/BADBOY/IMG_1755x.jpg

http://www.grimlabs.com/BADBOY/IMG_1756x.jpg

http://www.grimlabs.com/BADBOY/IMG_1754x.jpg

http://www.grimlabs.com/BADBOY/IMG_1753x.jpg

How many passes did you do to get to the end result at the bottom picture?

kb9nvh
06-21-2009, 10:11 PM
Only one pass today. Yesterday when I had the setting too high (3.5") I kept going back to get the parts that the wheels had pushed down...It was still a mess this morning but setting the deck to 1.5 (2") cut all the clover and left nothing to go back and cut again. My grass is really just old cut pasture field. Its got lots of Stuff growing in it.


How many passes did you do to get to the end result at the bottom picture?

Rons Rightway Lawncare
06-21-2009, 10:13 PM
OK, here's an update. I went out and recut my lawn with a setting of 1.5" (giving me a 2" cut. This is about what I was cutting at before. Anyway, the cut was beautiful with no stringers/clovers or anything weirdness. The grass was dryer today (but it did rain a bit this morning so it wasn't as dry as it could be).

Even the wildweeds in the back I took a cut at them with that low setting and it did a remarkable job on the first pass with a second pass almost making it like the rest of the lawn.

So, yesterdays poor report was due to my inexperience. I dont know what the height limit is to start getting a marginal cut but setting the indicator at 1.5" gave me a 2" cut and it left nothing standing and it all was even. My wife will probably want me to raise it up some though maybe 1/2".

Let me ask a simple question and get a honest answer. And I know you will answer it honestly.

Did you go under your new mower with a tape measure and measure the blade height?

I ask this because your assuming that the mower is cutting higher than indicated, because someone else said his did too. It very well could be, but there is just as much chance it isn't.

Around here, if you cut a lawn at 1.5 to 2 inches, it will be dead as soon as we get a stretch of about 5 days of this heat and no rain.

kb9nvh
06-21-2009, 10:17 PM
I took a tape measure outside and stuck it to the ground and measured the tips of the grass blades (in many different spots)...I did not measure from cement floor to blade (as I still need to to check front to back pitch).

That was the predominant height. There were "holes" that were up to 3" but the shortest and the most measurements I got were 2" or there abouts.
Also, yesterdays cut was anywhere from 3" to 3.5" before I cut again today.

You can see the close up cut in the second photo up from the bottom. It's probably a bit low of a cut..my wife complains if I cut it too short...

Let me ask a simple question and get a honest answer. And I know you will answer it honestly.

Did you go under your new mower with a tape measure and measure the blade height?

I ask this because your assuming that the mower is cutting higher than indicated, because someone else said his did too. It very well could be, but there is just as much chance it isn't.

Around here, if you cut a lawn at 1.5 to 2 inches, it will be dead as soon as we get a stretch of about 5 days of this heat and no rain.

kb9nvh
06-21-2009, 10:46 PM
It is pretty short and I'll probably have to up it a 1/4" or so. Today I was just trying to make up for my bad experience yesterday when I set it for 2.5" and it was leaving rows where wheels pushed the grass down and it wasn't getting all the clover blooms. Grass was wet then as well. I'll probably try a setting of 2" next time and see how that cuts when its dry. I think yesterday I set it down to as low as 2.25" and was still having problems with the cut not getting all the clover blooms. The worst was the rows that popped back up that the front wheels had bent down and didnt' get cut the first time thorugh.
I do need to pull into the garage and check blade height and deck pitch.

puppypaws
06-22-2009, 12:23 AM
It is pretty short and I'll probably have to up it a 1/4" or so. Today I was just trying to make up for my bad experience yesterday when I set it for 2.5" and it was leaving rows where wheels pushed the grass down and it wasn't getting all the clover blooms. Grass was wet then as well. I'll probably try a setting of 2" next time and see how that cuts when its dry. I think yesterday I set it down to as low as 2.25" and was still having problems with the cut not getting all the clover blooms. The worst was the rows that popped back up that the front wheels had bent down and didnt' get cut the first time thorugh.
I do need to pull into the garage and check blade height and deck pitch.

I would like to know what the pitch actually is and you can measure your front blade cutting edge to the concrete and get a real good idea of what each number on the gage represents in cutting height. I can tell your deck pitch is good or you would be pitching a fit about how sorry the new mower is cutting. No matter what anyone says or thinks you will always need to cut clover close to make it look good. You do not need to worry about cutting close killing anything with as much rain as you are getting.

nosparkplugs
06-22-2009, 12:34 AM
Blah, Blah, Blah, the Bad Boy lays a manicured cut in anything proof is in the pics as always. thats all that matters. You have a electric lift deck on the Bad Boys no pins to set. Why all the fuss, get the Bad Boy in some field grass get use to the cutting height, and let her rip. I run mine around 3" for my manicured accounts I have NEVER got out with a tape measure to see what height it is, zero complaints from my anal customers using the Bad Boy.

I have one customer call me asking if I purchased a new Walker thsi year, when I actually cut their 3 acres with the BB AOS diesel that I was using the Walker MT GHS on before. I was done in less than 2 hours, and gone before she got home with the Bad Boy.

Case closed the Bad Boys are here to Stay scratch another lost customer to Scag

MJB
06-22-2009, 12:38 AM
Let me ask a simple question and get a honest answer. And I know you will answer it honestly.

Did you go under your new mower with a tape measure and measure the blade height?

I ask this because your assuming that the mower is cutting higher than indicated, because someone else said his did too. It very well could be, but there is just as much chance it isn't.

Around here, if you cut a lawn at 1.5 to 2 inches, it will be dead as soon as we get a stretch of about 5 days of this heat and no rain.

I've bought 9 ZTR's many different brands and everyone cut a different height than the other. Even the ones that were the same make. In fact we cut at 2" on several lawns with 1 mower and 2 3/4 " with another to match the height. It time consuming to get them all set the same. Sounds like BB mowers are easy to set compared to many. Don't they have irrigation in NC ? I'm sure they do in Indiana.

nosparkplugs
06-22-2009, 12:44 AM
It will never end with Ron he is desperate to find fault in the Bad Boys, so he is grabbing at what ever he can. Fact remains we have another happy Bad Boy Owner. The electric lift deck is great up or down is all it takes to adjust your cutting height I have done zero adjustments out of the box. First day I was making money with my Bad Boy, not measuring the blade height, it cut level that was key for me.


I've bought 9 ZTR's many different brands and everyone cut a different height than the other. Even the ones that were the same make. In fact we cut at 2" on several lawns with 1 mower and 2 3/4 " with another to match the height. It time consuming to get them all set the same. Sounds like BB mowers are easy to set compared to many. Don't they have irrigation in NC ? I'm sure they do in Indiana.

puppypaws
06-22-2009, 01:00 AM
It will never end with Ron he is desperate to find fault in the Bad Boys, so he is grabbing at what ever he can. Fact remains we have another happy Bad Boy Owner. The electric lift deck is great up or down is all it takes to adjust your cutting height I have done zero adjustments out of the box. First day I was making money with my Bad Boy, not measuring the blade height, it cut level that was key for me.

Like I stated earlier in this tread, it makes no difference what the numbers say, set the deck to the height you wish to mow, look at the gage and go back to that point each time.


I've bought 9 ZTR's many different brands and everyone cut a different height than the other. Even the ones that were the same make. In fact we cut at 2" on several lawns with 1 mower and 2 3/4 " with another to match the height. It time consuming to get them all set the same. Sounds like BB mowers are easy to set compared to many. Don't they have irrigation in NC ? I'm sure they do in Indiana.

Water is not as plentiful in this area, there is irrigation in the nicer subdivisions, but it can be stopped at any time depending on the water supply. Last summer in this area, there was no washing vehicles or irrigating lawns, they had people writing sizable fines if you were caught. The way most people were caught was because their neighbors turned them in.

kb9nvh
06-22-2009, 07:16 AM
Wow, we get all the water we need and all the water you need too..LOL
There has been a few summers that we didn't see much rain for a month or two...those are the two week mows. This year I could probably mow every 5 days.

Like I stated earlier in this tread, it makes no difference what the numbers say, set the deck to the height you wish to mow, look at the gage and go back to that point each time.

Water is not as plentiful in this area, there is irrigation in the nicer subdivisions, but it can be stopped at any time depending on the water supply. Last summer in this area, there was no washing vehicles or irrigating lawns, they had people writing sizable fines if you were caught. The way most people were caught was because their neighbors turned them in.

Razorblades
06-22-2009, 08:05 AM
He could be the smartest man on earth, and still not know enough about mowers to make a smart choice on how to choose one, how to operate one, and how to maintain one.

My point with the comments was to parallel the way Bad Boy mowers are promoted here almost as much or more so to the BOP Quick line of walkbehinds.

They are promoted by people that own and use them, whether it is for their personal property or for commercial use. Are you telling me that Scag users and Exmark users, to name a couple, do not promote their brands of mowers???? What is the difference if it's BB users or any other brand users that are bragging or promoting their mowers? Is this a double Standard??

kb9nvh
06-22-2009, 08:19 AM
Funny thing is, many of those who promote the BB line dont even run them but just think highly of them. The BB lightning I bought is everything that I expected after talking to the good folks on here (both bad and good points were considered). If money was no object I may have considered more expensive options but, the bottom line is that I got the equivalent of a 10K+ "name brand" mower for 8K.

As sad as it is, I still like SCAG for what my mower "was", but I'll never buy another one because of what happen and how SCAG handled it.

Rons Rightway Lawncare
06-22-2009, 08:50 AM
I am just pointing out that maybe I wasn't so far off base where I questioned KB9NVH's knowledge of this stuff, then was told by puppypaws that I was wrong to question him being that he is a engineer and so on...... Wouldn't a engineer have measured with a tape measure rather than just assume on what the height is?

Yeah, some of you guys think I am just a hater. Too bad you just don't understand me or why I am writing what I write.

Rons Rightway Lawncare
06-22-2009, 08:54 AM
And puppypaws, I can't understand how or why a man who owns a farm in Marshville NC.... who doesn't own or operate a LCO, why would this man have over 4000 posts on this site? It seems odd.

It is like me owning a pressure washer to wash off my mowers and my truck and me going off and joining a forum for professionals on pressure washing, and racking up thousands of posts, and telling professionals there how they should use, maintain, and purchase their tools, based on how I use my pressure washer here at the house.

MJB
06-22-2009, 10:19 AM
And puppypaws, I can't understand how or why a man who owns a farm in Marshville NC.... who doesn't own or operate a LCO, why would this man have over 4000 posts on this site? It seems odd.

It is like me owning a pressure washer to wash off my mowers and my truck and me going off and joining a forum for professionals on pressure washing, and racking up thousands of posts, and telling professionals there how they should use, maintain, and purchase their tools, based on how I use my pressure washer here at the house.

PP's situation is unique, in that he takes pride in all he does, obvious by his meticulously maintained property. He also uses much of the same equipment we do maintaining his property, which is a large property as you know. I'm glad that he is on here. His opinions are always backed up by facts, and his knowledge of equipment, and especially his ability to demo many different mowers on his property, and share the info with us is a real help to those considering their next purchase.

I believe many on here get so biased, that when a new mower shows up like BB it ruffles a few feathers. I am excited that BB mowers have opened new doors to the mowers of the future just by some of their innovations into the BB mower. They have some great features, that no doubt have caught the eye of some. Some features good some bad. So really we can all benefit from a healthy discusion of the new equipment coming out, no matter if which brand we prefer or think is the best. So I for one am very happy to have PP's on this website with his 4000 posts, and sure would not knock him for it. :waving:

dwost
06-22-2009, 11:07 AM
PP's situation is unique, in that he takes pride in all he does, obvious by his meticulously maintained property. He also uses much of the same equipment we do maintaining his property, which is a large property as you know. I'm glad that he is on here. His opinions are always backed up by facts, and his knowledge of equipment, and especially his ability to demo many different mowers on his property, and share the info with us is a real help to those considering their next purchase.

I believe many on here get so biased, that when a new mower shows up like BB it ruffles a few feathers. I am excited that BB mowers have opened new doors to the mowers of the future just by some of their innovations into the BB mower. They have some great features, that no doubt have caught the eye of some. Some features good some bad. So really we can all benefit from a healthy discusion of the new equipment coming out, no matter if which brand we prefer or think is the best. So I for one am very happy to have PP's on this website with his 4000 posts, and sure would not knock him for it. :waving:

VERY well put MJB, couldn't have said it better myself.

puppypaws
06-22-2009, 12:41 PM
And puppypaws, I can't understand how or why a man who owns a farm in Marshville NC.... who doesn't own or operate a LCO, why would this man have over 4000 posts on this site? It seems odd.

It is like me owning a pressure washer to wash off my mowers and my truck and me going off and joining a forum for professionals on pressure washing, and racking up thousands of posts, and telling professionals there how they should use, maintain, and purchase their tools, based on how I use my pressure washer here at the house.

I have a little more inside knowledge of these mower companies, and dealer reps than I understand you could realize. I actually know the BB dealer in Louisville, Ky and made the deal for "kb9nvh" on his new mower and saved him $400.00.

I guess I am trying to explain that you actually have no idea of what I am involved in, and with. If you would like to ask " kb9nvh" if this is accurate information, please feel free to do so in this open forum.

I personally enjoy helping people anyway I possibly can and enjoy the fellowship of this forum, if this offends you I am very sorry.

The dealer is bringing me a 3100 Ferris with a 37 hp Kawasaki late this afternoon and leaving it with me. This dealer does not leave a Ferris mower with anyone for a demo, they appear to know me a little better than most.

kb9nvh
06-22-2009, 12:48 PM
Nope, not far off base at all...I'm not in the business and my only ZTR expereince has been with my SCAG which seemed to mow consistant with the markings on the deck height pin. I never measured it either.

I just jumped on my new BadBoy, set the cutting height to the inches marked on the indicator and started mowing. The Dealear had told me the deck was all set up and checked out so I believed him. Guess the deck height indicator is one of those things that "isn't" validated.

Live and learn. I'll withhold my "cut height" and "blade pitch" statements until I get a qualified reading from cement floor to blade.

By the way, I didn't take offense at your statment about my mower expertise and I dont now. Everyone cant be an expert at everything.


I am just pointing out that maybe I wasn't so far off base where I questioned KB9NVH's knowledge of this stuff, then was told by puppypaws that I was wrong to question him being that he is a engineer and so on...... Wouldn't a engineer have measured with a tape measure rather than just assume on what the height is?

Yeah, some of you guys think I am just a hater. Too bad you just don't understand me or why I am writing what I write.

Rons Rightway Lawncare
06-22-2009, 02:13 PM
I got no problem with Puppypaws, nor anyone else. It is just that he jumped on me for something I said, and made the point that I should KNOW, that a engineer would be smarter than I had given credit to.

And I don't believe being a engineer makes you a automatic expert at anything other than possibly the field your a engineer in. No more so than me being a LCO makes me a expert at farming corn.

It is all good though, I live close enough to puppypaws that I wouldn't mind dropping in on him sometime and seeing his stuff and shooting the breeze. Hey PP, do you have room on your property for me to land my gyrocopter there and take back off? I need roughly 1000 feet of fairly smooth area with no tall trees or powerlines on the departure end of the " Runway ".... If so shoot me your GPS location and I will come visit you sometime

MS_SURVEYOR
06-22-2009, 02:53 PM
Hey PP, do you have room on your property for me to land my gyrocopter there and take back off? I need roughly 1000 feet of fairly smooth area with no tall trees or powerlines on the departure end of the " Runway ".... If so shoot me your GPS location and I will come visit you sometime

That's some cool stuff! :cool2:

:drinkup::drinkup:

kb9nvh
06-22-2009, 03:53 PM
I did a little flying a few years back myself. Flew 150's and 172's. Never went past student though but I got about 70 hours under my belt inlcuding an engine malfunction while flying the 150. Lost one of the four cylinders and I was pretty scared up there. (I'm sure it was my fault somehow just as my cub fire was.. *grin*)

I got no problem with Puppypaws, nor anyone else. It is just that he jumped on me for something I said, and made the point that I should KNOW, that a engineer would be smarter than I had given credit to.

And I don't believe being a engineer makes you a automatic expert at anything other than possibly the field your a engineer in. No more so than me being a LCO makes me a expert at farming corn.

It is all good though, I live close enough to puppypaws that I wouldn't mind dropping in on him sometime and seeing his stuff and shooting the breeze. Hey PP, do you have room on your property for me to land my gyrocopter there and take back off? I need roughly 1000 feet of fairly smooth area with no tall trees or powerlines on the departure end of the " Runway ".... If so shoot me your GPS location and I will come visit you sometime

MJB
06-22-2009, 08:27 PM
I got no problem with Puppypaws, nor anyone else. It is just that he jumped on me for something I said, and made the point that I should KNOW, that a engineer would be smarter than I had given credit to.

And I don't believe being a engineer makes you a automatic expert at anything other than possibly the field your a engineer in. No more so than me being a LCO makes me a expert at farming corn.

It is all good though, I live close enough to puppypaws that I wouldn't mind dropping in on him sometime and seeing his stuff and shooting the breeze. Hey PP, do you have room on your property for me to land my gyrocopter there and take back off? I need roughly 1000 feet of fairly smooth area with no tall trees or powerlines on the departure end of the " Runway ".... If so shoot me your GPS location and I will come visit you sometime

Ron, How far can you go on a tank of gas in your gyrocoptor? My brother used to fly Ultralights everywhere, but I never graduated past hanggliding and that was all downhill unless the thermals were popin up that day. My Dad and I watched videos of the gyrocoptors when they came out 10 or 15 yrs ago and dreamed a little bit but then the womoen put a stop to that..LOL

Rons Rightway Lawncare
06-22-2009, 09:35 PM
My gyro holds 13 gallons of gas and burns about 4 a hour, at a cruising speed of about 60 mph. So range with no winds aloft would be about 165 miles ( with FAA legal 30 minute reserves ) but that is under absolutely ideal conditions.

My airplane holds 27 gallons of gas and burns about the same 4 gph, it cruises at 115-120 mph. So the range on it would be roughly 720 miles with the same reserves and no wind conditions. The plane only has 80 hp, the gyro has 125..... So the gyro is not as thrifty as the plane but it is a hell of alot more fun.

Rons Rightway Lawncare
06-22-2009, 09:52 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSlOKVVU15k&feature=related a video of my gyro a friend took from the back seat

This is the plane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyMT1fxm3fk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRwBiGoO4xU&feature=related

kb9nvh
06-22-2009, 10:15 PM
Here's a stillshot of me flying..not as exciting as the gyrocopter video..LOL
http://www.grimlabs.com/bluemarble/PAGES/FLIGHT/flight.html

SfTD_service_CENTER
06-22-2009, 10:23 PM
nice stuff!

somthing i learned on 1000 ways to die- never go diving and then flying in the same day! it is the benz or bends or whatever makes you really sick and cant move from presure and depresurization. i am sure they teach that when you learn to fly though. i just had to act like i knew something lol

MSlawnBoy
06-23-2009, 01:59 PM
So, has anyone tried out the BB ZT series?

saylorsdad
06-23-2009, 02:17 PM
I have the zt around 150 hrs now on it and still running strong. still on first belt second set of blades. cuts better than any other mower I have tried. it doesn't like going sideways on hills the hydro's on it aren't strong enough and it will hop a bit if one wheel is loaded to much.
Posted via Mobile Device

MSlawnBoy
06-23-2009, 02:32 PM
How's the ZT ride? My front is a bit bumpy and I'm concerned about that.

saylorsdad
06-23-2009, 02:58 PM
ours is bumpy also. I think it is due to large rear engine. we are running 10 psi and on smooth ground it runs pretty good. on rough ground it sucks at time.
Posted via Mobile Device

kb9nvh
06-23-2009, 04:30 PM
I dont think there's anyway around it..if there's no suspension and the mower is built rock solid to last. The seat has little cushioning. Your gonna bounce wiht the bumps. My tiger Cub rattled my teeth in the rough..just have to slow it up.

ours is bumpy also. I think it is due to large rear engine. we are running 10 psi and on smooth ground it runs pretty good. on rough ground it sucks at time.
Posted via Mobile Device

puppypaws
06-23-2009, 10:51 PM
I dont think there's anyway around it..if there's no suspension and the mower is built rock solid to last. The seat has little cushioning. Your gonna bounce wiht the bumps. My tiger Cub rattled my teeth in the rough..just have to slow it up.

Was anything said about tire air pressure at the dealer when you picked up your new Lightning? What was the air pressure in all four tires, and what is it now?

MJB
06-24-2009, 12:21 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSlOKVVU15k&feature=related a video of my gyro a friend took from the back seat

This is the plane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyMT1fxm3fk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRwBiGoO4xU&feature=related

Ron,
How hard is it to make a dead stick landing. Planes have a better glide ratio I would think. But the gyro is designed to slow down your fall isn't it?

Oh yeah, What does it cost to get into at the beginner level ?

lawns Etc
06-24-2009, 01:08 AM
MY Post has officially been invaded?????????????????

kb9nvh
06-24-2009, 07:06 AM
He said they were at 10psi.

After someone posted on here and I looked at the advanced chute system and read the instructions and it turns out its supposed to have a 25% open option and mine has the cam to do it but its not adjusted correctly. So, if thats not correct then I looks like I need to personally check out the mower setup on everything before I start makeing any reviews or claims (a little late I guess..).

As far as the bounce, my lightning is GREAT in the rough...it was my old CUB I was talking about that rattled your teeth....I recall its air pressure was maybe 20psi so maybe that would explain the rough ride.

Was anything said about tire air pressure at the dealer when you picked up your new Lightning? What was the air pressure in all four tires, and what is it now?

puppypaws
06-24-2009, 07:00 PM
He said they were at 10psi.

After someone posted on here and I looked at the advanced chute system and read the instructions and it turns out its supposed to have a 25% open option and mine has the cam to do it but its not adjusted correctly. So, if thats not correct then I looks like I need to personally check out the mower setup on everything before I start makeing any reviews or claims (a little late I guess..).

As far as the bounce, my lightning is GREAT in the rough...it was my old CUB I was talking about that rattled your teeth....I recall its air pressure was maybe 20psi so maybe that would explain the rough ride.

You needed about 8 lbs. in the Cub and you would not believe the difference in ride, 20 lbs. in a Cub would beat your brains out.

I would check the air pressure myself to be sure they are equal at 10 on all four tires.

I have not gotten you information yet, but will try tomorrow.

kb9nvh
06-24-2009, 07:06 PM
Thanks, I called heath in louisville and got the number I needed. My buddy bought a dixie chopper for 7400 bucks... I think a 2760 (60" 27hp). If he had gotten a pup he would have had to add the chute block for $220. I think the pup would have been $650 less and would have had the 30hp kohler. He had such good luck with old chopper he had to get another one..

You needed about 8 lbs. in the Cub and you would not believe the difference in ride, 20 lbs. in a Cub would beat your brains out.

I would check the air pressure myself to be sure they are equal at 10 on all four tires.

I have not gotten you information yet, but will try tomorrow.

puppypaws
06-24-2009, 07:10 PM
Thanks, I called heath in louisville and got the number I needed. My buddy bought a dixie chopper for 7400 bucks... I think a 2760 (60" 27hp). If he had gotten a pup he would have had to add the chute block for $220. I think the pup would have been $650 less and would have had the 30hp kohler. He had such good luck with old chopper he had to get another one..

He may have gotten the deal he wanted, I really don't know, but Heath sells Dixie as well.

You need to let him run yours, while you run his and see how they compare!

kb9nvh
06-24-2009, 07:21 PM
The race is already planned..LOL
Actually, gonna use my gps and see how they compare. I dont know the rated speed of his dixie but I hope hes not disappointed. He drove mine yesterday and said he thought it was a bit slower than his old Dixie. He bought a used commercial unit that was nearly played out...he still used it for 5 years. His deck is bent and broken...bet my BB deck will never look like that.

Also, he notice a delay once on the BB when accelerating forward...He's used to the Dixie mud tires and I have turf tires on mine...I said that was wheel spin on the bad boy for not being gentle enough.

Also, he's the type that will not drive to find a deal...No way would he drive to Louisville for any amount of money...LOL

He may have gotten the deal he wanted, I really don't know, but Heath sells Dixie as well.

You need to let him run yours, while you run his and see how they compare!

puppypaws
06-24-2009, 09:40 PM
The race is already planned..LOL
Actually, gonna use my gps and see how they compare. I dont know the rated speed of his dixie but I hope hes not disappointed. He drove mine yesterday and said he thought it was a bit slower than his old Dixie. He bought a used commercial unit that was nearly played out...he still used it for 5 years. His deck is bent and broken...bet my BB deck will never look like that.

Also, he notice a delay once on the BB when accelerating forward...He's used to the Dixie mud tires and I have turf tires on mine...I said that was wheel spin on the bad boy for not being gentle enough.

Also, he's the type that will not drive to find a deal...No way would he drive to Louisville for any amount of money...LOL

Have you checked the speed on yours with GPS? Dixie Chopper was the first to claim a 15 mph cutting speed, so in reality his old mower may have been a little faster. Do you know which model Dixie and engine he is purchasing this time?

SfTD_service_CENTER
06-24-2009, 10:35 PM
you guys need to buy a radar gun to get acurate speeds gps all depends on the angle of the earth to the satelite to where you are it is alwasy off by a little bit. i check all vehicles with it to see if the speedos are right by just pointing it out the window while driving always tells me how fast i am going really easy! guns at radioshack are 75$ or less

MSlawnBoy
06-24-2009, 10:38 PM
No to BB ZT........can't speak on the rest......

puppypaws
06-24-2009, 10:44 PM
you guys need to buy a radar gun to get acurate speeds gps all depends on the angle of the earth to the satelite to where you are it is alwasy off by a little bit. i check all vehicles with it to see if the speedos are right by just pointing it out the window while driving always tells me how fast i am going really easy! guns at radioshack are 75$ or less

That is good info, I may buy one to play with!

kb9nvh
07-02-2010, 04:18 PM
First problem with my 09 badboy lightning. Today my wife wants to mow with the BB for the first time since we got her. I took her out and let her drive a bit on reduced RPMs to get the feel of it. Finally, put the rpms up full and she was to drive around a bit like that before doing the real thing. BB stops responding to lever position...Long story short, the tensioner spring broke that holds the drive pump drive belt tight. Need to call bad boy for a replacement "stat". Could have been a lot worse!!! Here's a picture

puppypaws
07-02-2010, 06:23 PM
First problem with my 09 badboy lightning. Today my wife wants to mow with the BB for the first time since we got her. I took her out and let her drive a bit on reduced RPMs to get the feel of it. Finally, put the rpms up full and she was to drive around a bit like that before doing the real thing. BB stops responding to lever position...Long story short, the tensioner spring broke that holds the drive pump drive belt tight. Need to call bad boy for a replacement "stat". Could have been a lot worse!!! Here's a picture

This should not happen, BB could have gotten some bad springs, have them send you two for your trouble. Explain to them, you don't want to be stopped from mowing to have one shipped if it happens again, and that you want a spare; now that you've seen this happen.

kb9nvh
07-02-2010, 08:55 PM
It appears that the mower was delivered with the spring attached to the wrong point on the pulley. See pictures.
You can still see the "hook" from the spring on the center pulley bolt of the idler pulley. It looks like the spring was supposed to go to the attachment point instead and the stress from the bolt being too large for the spring finally cracked it.

puppypaws
07-02-2010, 09:18 PM
It appears that the mower was delivered with the spring attached to the wrong point on the pulley. See pictures.
You can still see the "hook" from the spring on the center pulley bolt of the idler pulley. It looks like the spring was supposed to go to the attachment point instead and the stress from the bolt being too large for the spring finally cracked it.

Any mower company personnel could make this happen, but you have to wonder, where did he hook the one on the mower just before, and the one on the mower just after??? :confused:

Other than this little mishap, how has the mower been in comparison to the Scag you owned that burned up?

kb9nvh
07-02-2010, 09:22 PM
For sure..this was a period where they were really pushing these things out the door. maybe the spring is the wrong one or something else was wrong that it wouldn't fit like it was supposed to. Looking at it it looks like the spring would hit the orange metal frame of the mower if it was attached to what appears to be the correct attachment point...I need to bounce this off the bad boy guys and get this right one way or another as I dont want it breaking every two years.

Any mower company personnel could make this happen, but you have to wonder, where did he hook the one on the mower just before, and the one on the mower just after??? :confused:

puppypaws
07-02-2010, 09:25 PM
For sure..this was a period where they were really pushing these things out the door. maybe the spring is the wrong one or something else was wrong that it wouldn't fit like it was supposed to. Looking at it it looks like the spring would hit the orange metal frame of the mower if it was attached to what appears to be the correct attachment point...I need to bounce this off the bad boy guys and get this right one way or another as I dont want it breaking every two years.

I know you will keep us informed, I'm interested myself!!!

dwost
07-02-2010, 10:40 PM
Definitely keep us posted. I'm going to check mine tomorrow!! Thanks for posting this up.

kb9nvh
07-02-2010, 10:46 PM
Please post if your spring goes to the center pulley bolt or to the bracket attachment point when you find out..thanks

Definitely keep us posted. I'm going to check mine tomorrow!! Thanks for posting this up.

MS_SURVEYOR
07-02-2010, 11:00 PM
Please post if your spring goes to the center pulley bolt or to the bracket attachment point when you find out..thanks

I'm going to have to look at that? I've got my mower at the dealer being service right now. Now this is the tension spring for the belt turning the hydro pumps? And there are 2 of them?

kb9nvh
07-02-2010, 11:03 PM
I only have one tension spring, one idler pulley and the belt runs both pumps.

I'm going to have to look at that? I've got my mower at the dealer being service right now. Now this is the tension spring for the belt turning the hydro pumps? And there are 2 of them?

MS_SURVEYOR
07-02-2010, 11:25 PM
http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu216/MS-SURVEYOR/BADBOY%20BLADES-09-07-2009/BBMSERVICEMANUAL.jpg?t=1278127474

is this what we're looking for?

YardFarmersLLC
07-02-2010, 11:41 PM
I dont know much about bad boy mowers, but this is what I do know. The perks are as follows, Price....definetly cant beat the price when comparing to a different brand of same motor/deck size. Minus, the entire machine "swings" open. Just seems like too many parts that can break. The spindles are NOT greasable. I dont see how that can be good. I grease all spindles WEEKLY. If I were you I would think like I do. You get what you pay for. Some things are slightly cheaper than others, but there is something about bad boys prices that make me think.....I mean they are thousands cheaper......so theyre saving money somewhere..........and I wont risk it. Im not rich by any means.....but if youre cutting that many lawns.....youre better off with a better name machine......you save 2K.....which is a lot, but it could bite you in the butt. 2K is a lot but it might only be 4 payments more to get a toro or bobcat or scag or whatever.....

The spindles are greasable. But they break off ;)

YardFarmersLLC
07-02-2010, 11:49 PM
Ok then go with the Bad Boy it's got thicker metal, and their soon to not be the underdog anymore.

I could not be happier with our Bad Boy, as you know all whom have purchased a BB come on here HAPPY!
Posted via Mobile Device

Yes, we come here tickled.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=321232

MS_SURVEYOR
07-03-2010, 02:38 AM
I only have one tension spring, one idler pulley and the belt runs both pumps.

Now can we get back to the tension spring?

I'll look the spring once I get my mower back!

ms

puppypaws
07-03-2010, 07:17 AM
http://i649.photobucket.com/albums/uu216/MS-SURVEYOR/BADBOY%20BLADES-09-07-2009/BBMSERVICEMANUAL.jpg?t=1278127474

is this what we're looking for?

I knew it was suppose to be in the bracket, and that is just a good picture too prove the point. Thanks for taking time to find the picture and post it.....Thumbs Up

kb9nvh
07-03-2010, 10:22 AM
Wow, Glad to know some things never change around here. Anyway, like PP said, how many were built before and after mine with the spring attached to the wrong point and whoever did it had to dig up a nut to put on the end of the bolt.

kb9nvh
07-03-2010, 10:35 AM
Trouble is, the stock picture is not like mine...There is no way for the spring to attach to the attachment point without hitting framework.

kb9nvh
07-03-2010, 12:03 PM
LOL, well, I'm not a BB fanboy..Everyone knows I bring all my bad experiences here to resolve..LOL (both SCAG and BB). So far the bad boy hasn't tried to kill me yet but there's still time. Of course, if I made my living with this mower, a broken spring would leave me fuming mad!!! (just like when my high dollar hitachi cordless drill snapped in two pieces after a short fall from a window sill).
Just like now, glad to have my old faithfull panasonic cordless to fall back on and my 1988 18hp wheelhorse 42" cut lawnmower still comes in in a pinch.

Yes, we come here tickled.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=321232

puppypaws
07-03-2010, 12:54 PM
LOL, well, I'm not a BB fanboy..Everyone knows I bring all my bad experiences here to resolve..LOL (both SCAG and BB). So far the bad boy hasn't tried to kill me yet but there's still time. Of course, if I made my living with this mower, a broken spring would leave me fuming mad!!! (just like when my high dollar hitachi cordless drill snapped in two pieces after a short fall from a window sill).
Just like now, glad to have my old faithfull panasonic cordless to fall back on and my 1988 18hp wheelhorse 42" cut lawnmower still comes in in a pinch.

It will be interesting to find out "the rest of the story," as was always spoken by Paul Harvey!

kb9nvh
07-03-2010, 12:58 PM
Maybe this is why it would only go 11.5 mph..the drive belt was slipping....(probably not but hey, who knows).

wheebil
07-03-2010, 03:32 PM
just returned from my Bad Boy dealer...price on lightning Z 52" 26 hp Kaw liquid cooled was $7,500.....31 hp air cooled kawasaki $7750.

wheebil
07-03-2010, 03:33 PM
$7500 for 26 liquid kaw, $7750 for 31 hp kaw on a 52" lightning Z

wheebil
07-03-2010, 03:39 PM
Maybe this is why it would only go 11.5 mph..the drive belt was slipping....(probably not but hey, who knows).

which of the mowers do you like better? had great luck with my Scag 48", TC except the 3 Briggs engines I put on it. seriously considering a Bad Boy. Any thoughts?

kb9nvh
07-04-2010, 03:57 PM
Tough question as mowers are of different class. Mower to mower the BB wins everything but cut quality and I think you can expect a 48" to cut better than a 60" but also the scag velocity deck was pretty sweet.

If price was no object and you were buying the same class of mower then SCAG would be my pick as its fit and finish is just better and its design is lower (better for me) as well. With the exception of my SCAG exploding in flames on me as I mowed (haha), the tiger cub mowed very well and handled well and was well thought out on the controls.

Things the BB does better than the cub.
faster mowing way faster
bigger deck
more powerful with no wanting for power even in the tallest grass
Now worries about strength (its more of a tank than the scag)
suspension makes the bumps easy

Things the cub does better:
More controllable and better handling
lower and easier to maneuver
less damage to lawn




which of the mowers do you like better? had great luck with my Scag 48", TC except the 3 Briggs engines I put on it. seriously considering a Bad Boy. Any thoughts?

puppypaws
07-04-2010, 05:25 PM
Tough question as mowers are of different class. Mower to mower the BB wins everything but cut quality and I think you can expect a 48" to cut better than a 60" but also the scag velocity deck was pretty sweet.

If price was no object and you were buying the same class of mower then SCAG would be my pick as its fit and finish is just better and its design is lower (better for me) as well. With the exception of my SCAG exploding in flames on me as I mowed (haha), the tiger cub mowed very well and handled well and was well thought out on the controls.

Things the BB does better than the cub.
faster mowing way faster
bigger deck
more powerful with no wanting for power even in the tallest grass
Now worries about strength (its more of a tank than the scag)
suspension makes the bumps easy

Things the cub does better:
More controllable and better handling
lower and easier to maneuver
less damage to lawn

Things the cub does better:
More controllable and better handling / Because of being smaller, anything smaller is more controllable.
lower and easier to maneuver / Because of being smaller again, with a lower profile.
less damage to lawn / Because of being smaller and much, much slower to react with less power.

Running the BB at a crawl speed of the Scag Tiger Cub should give an equal cut, they both should perform a close to perfect cut at crawl speed. Definition of crawl speed would be anything 8 mph or less.

Just trying to clarify some questions the young man has in the comparison category. Do you think what I posted is correct, if not explain why to the people reading this thread? It is really hard to compare two totally different machines, it is kind of like going from a home-owner mower version to a commercial grade machine.

kb9nvh
07-06-2010, 01:32 PM
PP is correct and maybe I didn't say it clear enough that we are comparing two different class's of mower. The Tiger cub certainly crawled compared to the lightning and its 19hp motor sure wasn't anywhere close to overkill and often in deeper grass on the cub I had to slow down way below its top speed.

OK, on the spring breakage. BB is sending me a new one for free.
On proper assembly or not. Bad boy says that yes, on the lightning the spring does hook to the pulley bolt and not to the lever arm and that is the way they are being built today. Also, he stated that they rarely see those springs break and they still use the same spring.

So, I have a new spring on the way and the mower was built as intended and this is not a common item to break.

Although, I'm a little uncomfortable with the attachment method and would have thought a different pulley lever arm should have been engineered for the Lightnings needs, if this truly is just a matter of a bad spring then I'm OK with the solution and their response to the problem.



Things the cub does better:
More controllable and better handling / Because of being smaller, anything smaller is more controllable.
lower and easier to maneuver / Because of being smaller again, with a lower profile.
less damage to lawn / Because of being smaller and much, much slower to react with less power.

Running the BB at a crawl speed of the Scag Tiger Cub should give an equal cut, they both should perform a close to perfect cut at crawl speed. Definition of crawl speed would be anything 8 mph or less.

Just trying to clarify some questions the young man has in the comparison category. Do you think what I posted is correct, if not explain why to the people reading this thread? It is really hard to compare two totally different machines, it is kind of like going from a home-owner mower version to a commercial grade machine.

puppypaws
07-06-2010, 01:45 PM
PP is correct and maybe I didn't say it clear enough that we are comparing two different class's of mower. The Tiger cub certainly crawled compared to the lightning and its 19hp motor sure wasn't anywhere close to overkill and often in deeper grass on the cub I had to slow down way below its top speed.

OK, on the spring breakage. BB is sending me a new one for free.
On proper assembly or not. Bad boy says that yes, on the lightning the spring does hook to the pulley bolt and not to the lever arm and that is the way they are being built today. Also, he stated that they rarely see those springs break and they still use the same spring.

So, I have a new spring on the way and the mower was built as intended and this is not a common item to break.

Although, I'm a little uncomfortable with the attachment method and would have thought a different pulley lever arm should have been engineered for the Lightnings needs, if this truly is just a matter of a bad spring then I'm OK with the solution and their response to the problem.

That is interesting, not saying it is necessarily wrong, but would have thought the design would have been what I consider a little cleaner on the spring connection.

kb9nvh
07-06-2010, 01:48 PM
Well, maybe you can use your connections to get better insight into this issue. Also, if everyone with lightnings can confirm that yes indeed their pump tensioner spring is attached to the pulley bolt instead of the lever arm I would appreciate it.

That is interesting, not saying it is necessarily wrong, but would have thought the design would have been what I consider a little cleaner on the spring connection.

dwost
07-06-2010, 03:59 PM
Sorry KB9, haven't had a chance but will crawl under when I get home and verify what I have.

dwost
07-06-2010, 06:35 PM
Mine is on the bolt as well. There is a big gap and no binding on the spring. I'm wondering if they are using a "universal" bracket for multiple mowers. It may not work on ours but I'm wondering if it does on the AOS? Retro, can you confirm? Here are some pics.

Quiky One
07-06-2010, 06:42 PM
What does this spring do? I don't understand exactly.

Thanks Jason
Posted via Mobile Device

puppypaws
07-06-2010, 07:47 PM
What does this spring do? I don't understand exactly.

Thanks Jason
Posted via Mobile Device

It pulls the tensioner pulley against the belt to keep it tight.

dwost
07-06-2010, 07:48 PM
Keep tension in the idler pulley which in turn keeps the belt tight against the pulleys.

You beat me to it paws!! Lol

Posted via Mobile Device

kb9nvh
07-06-2010, 09:37 PM
THANKS!! good so mine is as designed!! They said to adjust to just fit a credit card between the spring coils...

dwost
07-06-2010, 10:26 PM
THANKS!! good so mine is as designed!! They said to adjust to just fit a credit card between the spring coils...

I used a feeler gauge for both this and the deck spring. Haven't had an issue with either.

kb9nvh
07-08-2010, 09:08 PM
Got delivery of TWO new springs from Badboy today (fast!!). I'll have one on tomorrow and be back in business!!

puppypaws
07-08-2010, 09:26 PM
Got delivery of TWO new springs from Badboy today (fast!!). I'll have one on tomorrow and be back in business!!

That is all you can ask of any company!

kb9nvh
07-08-2010, 09:41 PM
Well, I was going to hold out for a new Hustler Z but I guess this will do!!
That is all you can ask of any company!

puppypaws
07-08-2010, 10:10 PM
Well, I was going to hold out for a new Hustler Z but I guess this will do!!

You've got what I believe to be a very good mower, and if the truth be known it is probably more mower than you actually need, but isn't it fun to have the speed and power if you feel like dropping the reins?

kb9nvh
07-08-2010, 10:42 PM
With only 31 hours on the beast so far I would say you are correct sir. However, when out in the open field I can mow sq ft so fast it makes your head spin. The cub was actually closer to my actual needs but I'm glad I have the lighting and would never go back to a smaller mower. I can still mow my yard and get close enough due to the ZTR nature of the beast. When I'm back to mowing my rental 2acres every weekend this mower will be just the right tool for the job. I couldn't be more pleased. Broken spring was just a bad spring and failed. Not really BB fault (unless they bought from the cheapest supplier who cut corners when making the spring).

wheebil
07-08-2010, 10:54 PM
recently bought a Bad Boy Lightning Z nad researched the bejesus out of several mowers. first thing I had to do was get past the name recognition aspect of things. when you compare apples-to-apples, the Bad Boy blew away the others I demo'd. I ran Exmark, Gravely, Ferris and Bad Boy.

All were very good mowers. each were great at some things, good at others, not so good at the others.

What sold me on the Bad Boy were several things; for $1200 less I got several things the others did not offer. 26 hp liquid cooled Kawasaki, 14.5 gallon fuel tank, double wish-bone frame, heaviest gauge deck in industry, rubber mounted front and rear wheel suspension (makes a HUGE difference over the course of a day of riding/cutting) 1/8" height adjustments to cut height and can do so "on the fly"

puppypaws
07-08-2010, 11:13 PM
recently bought a Bad Boy Lightning Z nad researched the bejesus out of several mowers. first thing I had to do was get past the name recognition aspect of things. when you compare apples-to-apples, the Bad Boy blew away the others I demo'd. I ran Exmark, Gravely, Ferris and Bad Boy.

All were very good mowers. each were great at some things, good at others, not so good at the others.

What sold me on the Bad Boy were several things; for $1200 less I got several things the others did not offer. 26 hp liquid cooled Kawasaki, 14.5 gallon fuel tank, double wish-bone frame, heaviest gauge deck in industry, rubber mounted front and rear wheel suspension (makes a HUGE difference over the course of a day of riding/cutting) 1/8" height adjustments to cut height and can do so "on the fly"

You are a gentleman that recognizes and appreciates the difference BB brings to the table, when comparing some of the big names that offer much less mower for a much bigger price. There is not one mower made that is completely perfect in every aspect, but I believe for the price BB is ahead in the market.

demhustler
07-09-2010, 02:50 AM
P. you more familiar with sizes on diff. models - can existing suspension front forks, switched from other models, fit to outlaw?
or can outlaw forks be modified?
do they planing susp. forks 4 outlaw soon (or bolt-in kit, ets)?
also: double speed tz54000 trany (like scag & husq) on outlaw model?

puppypaws
07-09-2010, 07:20 AM
P. you more familiar with sizes on diff. models - can existing suspension front forks, switched from other models, fit to outlaw?
or can outlaw forks be modified?
do they planing susp. forks 4 outlaw soon (or bolt-in kit, ets)?
also: double speed tz54000 trany (like scag & husq) on outlaw model?

No, they are not made to interchange at this time, and I honestly have no idea why their suspension system was not put under the outlaw. I don't know what plans they have this mower, "retrodog" may have some insight.

retrodog
07-09-2010, 02:37 PM
Can't say much cause its all just "trying out and testing". You can put the front fork shocks on our mowers that don't have them, but you have to replace the whole forks, and they are around $400, also it doesn't make that much difference on the front in the ride, the ride difference is when the back has suspension too. On the pump spring, some of our mowers use the leg some don't.

demhustler
07-09-2010, 04:55 PM
Can't say much cause its all just "trying out and testing". You can put the front fork shocks on our mowers that don't have them, but you have to replace the whole forks, and they are around $400, also it doesn't make that much difference on the front in the ride, the ride difference is when the back has suspension too. On the pump spring, some of our mowers use the leg some don't.

rear suspension- important, no doubt; but even having front forks or not making big difference: we have 2 hustlSZ - 1with, 1 w/o flexforks; trying to go w/o fforks same as with - would calls not "riding" but more like "beating hell sht out of the mower" and certainly, not "cutting" : ))))

if sizes match (rod diam. & height) - whole forks ($400) - fine; hustler's flexforks - whole forks has to be replaced, DC's - i believe, too

2. rubber cones in suspension (acts like springs) - is it only rubber or like automotive engine mounts (has shock fluid inside and acts also like shock absorbers) ?
if not - can it be done (aftermarket) ? i believe they tried it, but not sure

StanWilhite
08-02-2010, 11:16 PM
Point taken. BUT you go back and read these Badboy posts and these are the guys that turn them into a Scag vs. Badboy. Its always a jab at the Scag mowers with these guys. "My Badboy flipped down the interstate 42 times and if that were a Scag it would have been in a scrap pile somewhere." LOL :laugh: Or you'll be chasing Scags going here kitty kitty. LOL :hammerhead:When I see something that needs a little clearing up like the price of Scag mowers I tend to try to clarify. It seems that Scag mowers are competitive in pricing except where these guys live. If they were the prices these guys have quoted in the past then I would probably look at another brand also. There are a few Badboy threads on here I haven't touched simply because I have no need or want to reply on them. The economy is the reason for people buying cheaper products. Not quality. My cousin is a manager of the local grocery stores here and say their "food club" store name brand sells have more than tripled and blames it on the economy. Bottom line people are looking for the best deal and pinching pennies. Personally I tried the "real value" orange kool-aid the other day and trust me it to is a less superior taste than the real Kool-aid. LOL :waving:

Are you kidding me? How can anyone be so arrogant (or possibly simple minded) to think that the economy is the sole reason (or even a contributing factor for that matter) for someone buying a BB instead of another brand? How old are you, and where did you get your degree in psychology? And maybe more importantly, how do you know so much about everyone elses reasoning and financial situation? Seriously man.....do you feel that way about all the cars and trucks other people drive? I'm sure that if they could afford to drive whatever you drive THEY SURELY WOULD! JEEZ......
Funny, I just read your post again and realized that you yourself slipped up and said "the reason that people are buying BB's is that they're looking for the best deal". OOPS!!!!

YardFarmersLLC
08-03-2010, 06:37 AM
Any mower company personnel could make this happen, but you have to wonder, where did he hook the one on the mower just before, and the one on the mower just after??? :confused:

Other than this little mishap, how has the mower been in comparison to the Scag you owned that burned up?

He probably hooked them in the same place, seeing as this has happened to both of my sissy boy mowers :)
Posted via Mobile Device

kb9nvh
08-03-2010, 08:41 AM
Already established that this is and was the correct "hooking" point for the spring
New spring, provided free of charge is working great. If you saw what i just mowed with this mower you would have to agree that this is one serious machine. my last renter forgot to mow for a few months. A pro would have used a bush hog....I chose to abuse my machine. maybe not a smart choice but this thing didnt miss a beat. Posted via Mobile Device

h0mr12
08-03-2010, 08:56 AM
Is there a shortage of the diesel BB? I checked 3 dealers and none had a 72" with the bigger Cat engine. One dealer said BB couldn't keep up with demand.

Aaronnc
08-03-2010, 01:15 PM
http://www.everythingattachments.com/Bad-Boy-Mowers-Lightning-Z-31hp-Kawasaki-52-cut-p/bbm-mower-31-52-kawa-lightnz.htm

and:

http://www.everythingattachments.com/Bad-Boy-Mowers-Lightning-Z-26hp-Kawasaki-LC-60-p/bbm-mower-26-60-kawa-lightnz.htm

puppypaws
08-03-2010, 05:06 PM
http://www.everythingattachments.com/Bad-Boy-Mowers-Lightning-Z-31hp-Kawasaki-52-cut-p/bbm-mower-31-52-kawa-lightnz.htm

and:

http://www.everythingattachments.com/Bad-Boy-Mowers-Lightning-Z-26hp-Kawasaki-LC-60-p/bbm-mower-26-60-kawa-lightnz.htm

I know there are people that believe L/C makes a difference, but I had much rather have 5 more hp for $200 more money.

kb9nvh
08-03-2010, 06:03 PM
This is what my renter left for me. (after and before)
I think I liked what the renter before left for me even with the horse field look...

Aaronnc
08-03-2010, 09:09 PM
I know there are people that believe L/C makes a difference, but I had much rather have 5 more hp for $200 more money.

Oh, I agree. The OP had asked if anyone knew the difference in price.

puppypaws
08-03-2010, 09:24 PM
This is what my renter left for me. (after and before)
I think I liked what the renter before left for me even with the horse field look...

That is what power accomplishes!

Aaronnc
08-03-2010, 10:26 PM
oops, that first link was to a 52" deck. My bad. Here's the 60" : http://www.everythingattachments.com/Bad-Boy-Mowers-Lightning-Z-31hp-Kawasaki-60-cut-p/bbm-mower-31-60-kawa-lightnz.htm

puppypaws
08-03-2010, 10:32 PM
oops, that first link was to a 52" deck. My bad. Here's the 60" : http://www.everythingattachments.com/Bad-Boy-Mowers-Lightning-Z-31hp-Kawasaki-60-cut-p/bbm-mower-31-60-kawa-lightnz.htm

They certainly had a price increase, I believe the same mower could be bought for $8200.00 last year. kb9vh, what was it we got yours for?

kb9nvh
08-03-2010, 10:50 PM
Well, after I added the deck pedal and discharge door it seems like it was 82 or somthing..maybe that was with tax though. I would have to go back and look. Maybe our PM's might say it?

They certainly had a price increase, I believe the same mower could be bought for $8200.00 last year. kb9vh, what was it we got yours for?

LibertyFarmLandscaping
08-04-2010, 05:18 AM
That makes you a top notch dealer along with a caring person. You have experience with the problems down time can cause. I would dare say there would not have been very many (hardly any), dealers that would have taken a spindle off a new mower to get them going. It would be even less in a large town, dealers are going to order and make you wait, they are not about to take a part off a new machine that could possibly be sold 5 minutes after you walk out their door. I personally can understand this, especially with a municipality, it is a little different when a person is depending on that machine for his survival, which city employees are not.

I am very fortunate to be 25 miles from Retrodog. I replaced a Scag Tiger Cat that stayed in the shop alot last year with less than 400 hours (with NO HELP FROM SCAG or THE DEALER) with an Outlaw the first of this Season. Just a few weeks ago I replaced a Scag TT with a Lightening, and will replace the other Scag TT on the same truck first of next season. The guys fight over who gets to mow on the smoother riding Lightening.

Back to bragging on Retrodog.

First life saving event from Retrodog-
Employee bends spindle hitting grave at cemetary. I call Retrodog on his Cell phone which is unheard of to be given out by a dealer. He says tell employee bring to shop. Retrodog has no Outlaw spindles in stock because new mower with different type of spindle. He takes spindle off new Outlaw in stock. Replaces it under warranty. Mower back in service within 2 hours of initial call.

Second life saving event from Retrodog-
Employee slits side wall in tire. Size of tire is new to the market on Outlaw, none available at tire shops. Call Retrodog, drive to his shop, take tire off new outlaw and put on my rim. Mower back in service within 1.5 hours of initial call.

I wouldn't care if BB mowers were more expensive than Scag I would still buy the BB because of Retrodog's tremendous support.

I don't have time to argue with people like Mike Blevins about how great his mower is, but I do have time to come on here and brag about Retrodog.

When you have multiple employees working for you, it's all about which local dealer gives a sh#! and minimizes your downtime when equipment breaks. :waving:

kb9nvh
08-04-2010, 07:43 AM
Wow.....That service is worth its weight in gold.

I am very fortunate to be 25 miles from Retrodog. I replaced a Scag Tiger Cat that stayed in the shop alot last year with less than 400 hours (with NO HELP FROM SCAG or THE DEALER) with an Outlaw the first of this Season. Just a few weeks ago I replaced a Scag TT with a Lightening, and will replace the other Scag TT on the same truck first of next season. The guys fight over who gets to mow on the smoother riding Lightening.

Back to bragging on Retrodog.

First life saving event from Retrodog-
Employee bends spindle hitting grave at cemetary. I call Retrodog on his Cell phone which is unheard of to be given out by a dealer. He says tell employee bring to shop. Retrodog has no Outlaw spindles in stock because new mower with different type of spindle. He takes spindle off new Outlaw in stock. Replaces it under warranty. Mower back in service within 2 hours of initial call.

Second life saving event from Retrodog-
Employee slits side wall in tire. Size of tire is new to the market on Outlaw, none available at tire shops. Call Retrodog, drive to his shop, take tire off new outlaw and put on my rim. Mower back in service within 1.5 hours of initial call.

I wouldn't care if BB mowers were more expensive than Scag I would still buy the BB because of Retrodog's tremendous support.

I don't have time to argue with people like Mike Blevins about how great his mower is, but I do have time to come on here and brag about Retrodog.

When you have multiple employees working for you, it's all about which local dealer gives a sh#! and minimizes your downtime when equipment breaks. :waving:

dwost
08-04-2010, 07:55 AM
They may have increased the price a bit on a couple of the models but I do know the one I have is still $7,995 which is what I paid last year for my Kawi LC26/60. http://www.everythingattachments.com/Bad-Boy-Mowers-Lightning-Z-26hp-Kawasaki-LC-60-p/bbm-mower-26-60-kawa-lightnz.htm

BTW, that is some GREAT service!

puppypaws
08-04-2010, 11:09 AM
I am very fortunate to be 25 miles from Retrodog. I replaced a Scag Tiger Cat that stayed in the shop alot last year with less than 400 hours (with NO HELP FROM SCAG or THE DEALER) with an Outlaw the first of this Season. Just a few weeks ago I replaced a Scag TT with a Lightening, and will replace the other Scag TT on the same truck first of next season. The guys fight over who gets to mow on the smoother riding Lightening.

Back to bragging on Retrodog.

First life saving event from Retrodog-
Employee bends spindle hitting grave at cemetary. I call Retrodog on his Cell phone which is unheard of to be given out by a dealer. He says tell employee bring to shop. Retrodog has no Outlaw spindles in stock because new mower with different type of spindle. He takes spindle off new Outlaw in stock. Replaces it under warranty. Mower back in service within 2 hours of initial call.

Second life saving event from Retrodog-
Employee slits side wall in tire. Size of tire is new to the market on Outlaw, none available at tire shops. Call Retrodog, drive to his shop, take tire off new outlaw and put on my rim. Mower back in service within 1.5 hours of initial call.

I wouldn't care if BB mowers were more expensive than Scag I would still buy the BB because of Retrodog's tremendous support.

I don't have time to argue with people like Mike Blevins about how great his mower is, but I do have time to come on here and brag about Retrodog.

When you have multiple employees working for you, it's all about which local dealer gives a sh#! and minimizes your downtime when equipment breaks. :waving:

It takes a remarkable human being, not a dealer to perform those acts of courtesy, that in itself is worth more than most dealers seem to understand. These actions and word of mouth from people like yourself is an invaluable advertisement.

mbrew
08-04-2010, 12:52 PM
LibertyFarmsLAndscaping, I take it you're in the Paris area. Do you mind if I ask what blades you run. Your conditions must be pretty close to mine and I need to order a couple of sets.

Thanks,

Apples
08-04-2010, 09:12 PM
Nice job Retro! Thanks for telling us Liberty!

MJB
08-04-2010, 10:03 PM
I am very fortunate to be 25 miles from Retrodog. I replaced a Scag Tiger Cat that stayed in the shop alot last year with less than 400 hours (with NO HELP FROM SCAG or THE DEALER) with an Outlaw the first of this Season. Just a few weeks ago I replaced a Scag TT with a Lightening, and will replace the other Scag TT on the same truck first of next season. The guys fight over who gets to mow on the smoother riding Lightening.

Back to bragging on Retrodog.

First life saving event from Retrodog-
Employee bends spindle hitting grave at cemetary. I call Retrodog on his Cell phone which is unheard of to be given out by a dealer. He says tell employee bring to shop. Retrodog has no Outlaw spindles in stock because new mower with different type of spindle. He takes spindle off new Outlaw in stock. Replaces it under warranty. Mower back in service within 2 hours of initial call.

Second life saving event from Retrodog-
Employee slits side wall in tire. Size of tire is new to the market on Outlaw, none available at tire shops. Call Retrodog, drive to his shop, take tire off new outlaw and put on my rim. Mower back in service within 1.5 hours of initial call.

I wouldn't care if BB mowers were more expensive than Scag I would still buy the BB because of Retrodog's tremendous support.

I don't have time to argue with people like Mike Blevins about how great his mower is, but I do have time to come on here and brag about Retrodog.

When you have multiple employees working for you, it's all about which local dealer gives a sh#! and minimizes your downtime when equipment breaks. :waving:

You have a new Lightning and an Outlaw. How different are they, obviously the Outlaw is good on slopes, the Lightning rides better. Why did you go with 2 different mowers , and which one do you like the best?

I like both but have not run the Lightning yet. By the way mine is doing much better after resetting the pitch. :walking:

MS_SURVEYOR
08-04-2010, 10:06 PM
You have a new Lightning and an Outlaw. How different are they, obviously the Outlaw is good on slopes, the Lightning rides better. Why did you go with 2 different mowers , and which one do you like the best?

I like both but have not run the Lightning yet. By the way mine is doing much better after resetting the pitch. :walking:

Good! I've been wondering about you and the Outlaw! :drinkup:

LibertyFarmLandscaping
08-04-2010, 11:16 PM
LibertyFarmsLAndscaping, I take it you're in the Paris area. Do you mind if I ask what blades you run. Your conditions must be pretty close to mine and I need to order a couple of sets.

Thanks,

Which mower do you have?

LibertyFarmLandscaping
08-04-2010, 11:31 PM
You have a new Lightning and an Outlaw. How different are they, obviously the Outlaw is good on slopes, the Lightning rides better. Why did you go with 2 different mowers , and which one do you like the best?

I like both but have not run the Lightning yet. By the way mine is doing much better after resetting the pitch. :walking:

I just bought the Lightning 9 days ago used with 78 hours, very good deal from the owner who was in a financial bind. That is the reason for the different mower. It was sold new by Retrodog.

I've only mowed at my house on it (3 acres) with minimal slope to the ditches.

From the 2 employees that ran it last week they say it holds the slopes as equally well as the Scag TT's, but not quite as well as the Outlaw. They love the ride of course compared to the TT's.

I'm going to get some seat time on the Lightning tommorow on some hills and steep ditches, and I can give you a better comparison. It also has the 31 hp Kaw.

I'm glad to hear your cut is improving on the Outlaw!

mbrew
08-05-2010, 06:55 AM
Which mower do you have?

I have an older "Standard Model" which is about the equivalent of the AOS.

I'd appreciate any guidance you or Retrodog may have since we are likely working in similar conditions

Any body know what AOS stands for?


Thanks,

mbrew
08-05-2010, 06:58 AM
You have a new Lightning and an Outlaw. How different are they, obviously the Outlaw is good on slopes, the Lightning rides better. Why did you go with 2 different mowers , and which one do you like the best?

I like both but have not run the Lightning yet. By the way mine is doing much better after resetting the pitch. :walking:

What was yours pitched at before and after your adjustments? Was it a big difference?

Thanks,

MJB
08-05-2010, 08:57 AM
What was yours pitched at before and after your adjustments? Was it a big difference?

Thanks,

On the Outlaw they told me to set the deck on 5 then check the pitch it should be 1/4 inch higher in the front than the back , or 5 1/4 inches. So basically it needs to be pitched the opposite on the 5th setting. Then as you lower it the pitch will be right for cutting. On the 5th setting mine was off by 3/8th of an inch. Putting way to much pitch in it. I'm still not sure if I have it right but it worked pretty good yesterday in thick grass.

On the lawn below I was was working on stripes. I need to lower my rubber flap more to make the stripes pop more. It's getting better. I'm not use to mowing without a stripe roller.

MJB
08-05-2010, 09:01 AM
I just bought the Lightning 9 days ago used with 78 hours, very good deal from the owner who was in a financial bind. That is the reason for the different mower. It was sold new by Retrodog.

I've only mowed at my house on it (3 acres) with minimal slope to the ditches.

From the 2 employees that ran it last week they say it holds the slopes as equally well as the Scag TT's, but not quite as well as the Outlaw. They love the ride of course compared to the TT's.

I'm going to get some seat time on the Lightning tommorow on some hills and steep ditches, and I can give you a better comparison. It also has the 31 hp Kaw.

I'm glad to hear your cut is improving on the Outlaw!

I found the ride improved a bunch by running 8 lbs in the rear tires and 11 in the front on my Outlaw, plus the traction improved a lot too, even though it was better than my other mowers either way.

MS_SURVEYOR
08-05-2010, 09:40 AM
WOW! That Looks Great!

puppypaws
08-05-2010, 02:31 PM
On the Outlaw they told me to set the deck on 5 then check the pitch it should be 1/4 inch higher in the front than the back , or 5 1/4 inches. So basically it needs to be pitched the opposite on the 5th setting. Then as you lower it the pitch will be right for cutting. On the 5th setting mine was off by 3/8th of an inch. Putting way to much pitch in it. I'm still not sure if I have it right but it worked pretty good yesterday in thick grass.

On the lawn below I was was working on stripes. I need to lower my rubber flap more to make the stripes pop more. It's getting better. I'm not use to mowing without a stripe roller.

The grass is beautiful, I'm really interested in hearing how the Outlaw cuts well maintained grass, you hear people claim the cut is not up to par on grass such as you are cutting in the picture. You have run basically all mowers in your operation, this is why I believe yours will be one of the better testimonies as to whether the cut is good, average, or bad on the Outlaw, looking forward to hearing all the details as you progress through the setup process.

Razorblades
08-05-2010, 10:13 PM
I have an older "Standard Model" which is about the equivalent of the AOS.

I'd appreciate any guidance you or Retrodog may have since we are likely working in similar conditions

Any body know what AOS stands for?


Thanks,

"Advanced operating system"

mbrew
08-05-2010, 10:21 PM
"Advanced operating system"

Thanks, I appreciate that!

kb9nvh
08-05-2010, 10:28 PM
LOL, like "windows" or Linux
Thanks, I appreciate that!

mbrew
08-05-2010, 10:43 PM
Many people can talk with their tongue in cheek.

LibertyFarmLandscaping
08-05-2010, 10:51 PM
I have an older "Standard Model" which is about the equivalent of the AOS.

I'd appreciate any guidance you or Retrodog may have since we are likely working in similar conditions

Any body know what AOS stands for?


Thanks,

I run Oregon 91-638 on the Scag TT's. Which is a medium lift. We mow a 20 acre cemetary every 3 weeks (sometimes sooner if growing too fast) with alot of bahia in it. I run a Stens flat style bahia blade when we cut it.

On the Outlaw I've only run the OEM fusion blades. It is the 54" deck so no options really. They have an 18 3/4" blade that overlaps when cutting. I guess I could try some 18" blades but I'm thinking it wouldn't do to well.

Havent messed with the Lightening yet. It has a set of Stens high lift blades on it, and the guy gave me 2 sets of new Stens blades with the mower.

I run Fusion high lifts on my Snapper Pro WB.

Hope this helps. I know Retrodog has played around with alot of blades on the AOS and Lightning. I'm sure he can be better assistance for you.

Not sure what AOS stands for.

bradseabridge
08-05-2010, 10:55 PM
I'm looking at the bad boy mz 42in. I don't need anything bigger and for the price of a 42in walkbehind, for a little more I can get this and be done way faster. The say it's the same quality as commercial, but is that really true?

Razorblades
08-05-2010, 10:55 PM
LOL, like "windows" or Linux

You lost me on that reply???? did I answer mbrew's earlier question wrong?

I'm not following your response and his subsequent response? Will you clarify please?:)

LibertyFarmLandscaping
08-05-2010, 11:13 PM
I found the ride improved a bunch by running 8 lbs in the rear tires and 11 in the front on my Outlaw, plus the traction improved a lot too, even though it was better than my other mowers either way.


Well I must say the Lightning is noticeably smoother, but I feel better after riding the Outlaw. I mowed on both machines today appx 3 hours on each. The Outlaw definitely handles hills and slopes with ease that you can't even mow on with the Lightning.

At 6'5" with all of the leg room my vote goes to the Outlaw for overall ride. I'll try 8R and 11F psi, Thanks.

LibertyFarmLandscaping
08-05-2010, 11:25 PM
BTW, those stripes look awesome !

MJB
08-06-2010, 12:09 AM
BTW, those stripes look awesome !

Thanks, But it will stripe better than that I'm still working on that. I've been to busy to say much about the mower but I like it more everyday. I find it rides a lot better than my Exmark Lazer Z AS with the suspension seat. I had to learn some new stuff about setting up the Outlaw being mine was sent from the factory with to much pitch to cut. Now it cuts almost as good as my Exmark maybe the same. But soon I will have more pictures of the cut and stripes, and talk a bit more about it.