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Pennington Lawncare
06-20-2009, 10:23 AM
What is the easiest-fastest-most economical way of getting rid of a lawn full of white clover? I have one lawn in particular that has a beautiful and fast growing lawn but, recently the white clover has shot up every where. Thanks for everyone's suggestions.

djflats
06-20-2009, 10:43 AM
What is the easiest-fastest-most economical way of getting rid of a lawn full of white clover? I have one lawn in particular that has a beautiful and fast growing lawn but, recently the white clover has shot up every where. Thanks for everyone's suggestions.

I can't help you with this but I'll be watching the thread. I have the same problem with my property. It's being over run by clover.

coolluv
06-20-2009, 11:00 AM
http://lawncare.about.com/od/turfgrasspests/p/WhiteClover.htm

Dave...

mississippiturf
06-20-2009, 11:18 AM
Not sure about your state, but I applied some "Weed-Free Zone" on a couple of my customer's lawns earlier and the clover disappeared. Your local co-op should help you decide your best options.

Nosmo
06-20-2009, 01:45 PM
First of all are you licensed to apply chemicals to a customer's yard ? Usually any product with 2,4-D will wipe out clover.

If you are doing it for yourself and cannot buy commercial products Walmart and Lowes sell Bayer for lawns in your area. Bayer is the brand name and it gets rid of clover and even dallis grass.

Nosmos

bighaydenslawn
06-20-2009, 02:19 PM
First of all are you licensed to apply chemicals to a customer's yard ? Usually any product with 2,4-D will wipe out clover.

If you are doing it for yourself and cannot buy commercial products Walmart and Lowes sell Bayer for lawns in your area. Bayer is the brand name and it gets rid of clover and even dallis grass.

Nosmos


2,4-D won't kill the clover that well, just the other broadleaves.

Try Tri-Mec for clover.

GracesLandscaping
06-20-2009, 03:42 PM
tri-mec will work... but if your not into spraying much go to lowes or something and buy some spectracide weed stop... it works good for me

TheMadOne
06-20-2009, 04:05 PM
I have use a product from Tractor Supply Company on my own lawn for years. It is branded as "Tractor Supply Company" and I don't have a bag handy right now to look up the particulars on it. The TSC name designation for it is simply Weed n Feed 23-3-7, it has handled the dandelions, & clover very well in past applications as well a a myriad of other pest plant growths. Greens the lawn up nicely with in a week or 2 of application.

This year my wife will not allow me to use it this year though :nono: as we have managed to get some violet growth & she likes the pesky things, so my lawn looks like Krap this year! The TSC product is a consumer grade product, applied via broadcast spreader, don't know the regs in your area, but you'd be required to have a proper license here in IN to use it commercially I'm sure. I only mow commercially right now so my experience with this product is from my own personal use on my lawn over the last several years, but like I said it seems to handle the clover well enough for me..... when the boss allows me to use it!!

TheMadOne
06-20-2009, 04:15 PM
Hello again,

Did some quick look up for you on the TSC 23-3-7; here are a couple of links to the info on it... the brand is GroundWork.

http://www.kellysolutions.com/ne/showproductinfo.asp?Product_Name=GROUNDWORK+LAWN+FERTILIZER+WEED+AND+FEED+23-3-7&EPA_Id=2217-818-1381

http://www.kellysolutions.com/ne/showproductinfo.asp?Product_Name=GROUNDWORK+WEED+%26+FEED+23-3-7&EPA_Id=2217-818-1381

ALC-GregH
06-20-2009, 04:31 PM
I used Ortho brand weed be gone. It knocked out the clover within a day. After I sprayed the lawn by the next morning the clover leafs were brown! Took care of the dandelions too. I still have a bunch of nimblewill.

Whitey4
06-20-2009, 04:59 PM
I used Ortho brand weed be gone. It knocked out the clover within a day. After I sprayed the lawn by the next morning the clover leafs were brown! Took care of the dandelions too. I still have a bunch of nimblewill.

The only thing for nimblewil is Tenacity. It's been approved for golf courses in NY for a couple years, still waiting to DEC approval for residential use. If it's approved in PA, it's suposed to work pretty well.

Using Ortho weed b gone will knock the clover down, but follow up with a second app in 2 weeks or it will pop back up.

djflats
06-20-2009, 05:11 PM
I take it that somewhere under all of this clover is grass...I hope so. I know there use to be.

Nosmo
06-20-2009, 07:07 PM
If the clover is in a fairly sunny area and it is killed out --Bermuda if nearby will take over. In shady spots around here where its shady anything may move in when the clover is gone.

Nosmo

DaddyRabbit
06-20-2009, 07:19 PM
Triplet SF

Whitey4
06-20-2009, 07:20 PM
Actually, Ortho has a clover/oxalis killer in concentrate that will kill with one application...

david shumaker
06-20-2009, 07:24 PM
I had to spray my patch twice. Now I wish I had left it. Bumblebees like clover and now the little bees are gone. Some clover is suppose to be good. From what I understand, it adds nitrogen to the lawn.

Whitey4
06-20-2009, 07:40 PM
I had to spray my patch twice. Now I wish I had left it. Bumblebees like clover and now the little bees are gone. Some clover is suppose to be good. From what I understand, it adds nitrogen to the lawn.

All true. Clover in a front yard.... not for me.... in the back yard, fine.

Clover does better in soil that is low in N, and these plants do produce and add N back into the lawn, but the leaf cover will eventually make the grass in the lawn weaker, and then get over powered by clover.

Right now, anything that is good for bees is a good thing.That includes clover.

ALC-GregH
06-20-2009, 07:55 PM
The only thing for nimblewil is Tenacity. It's been approved for golf courses in NY for a couple years, still waiting to DEC approval for residential use. If it's approved in PA, it's supposed to work pretty well.

Using Ortho weed b gone will knock the clover down, but follow up with a second app in 2 weeks or it will pop back up.

thanks Whitey. I wasn't sure what to use on the nimblewill to be honest. Plus I haven't had the chance to do much to my lawn. I'm getting a bunch of work all at once. I plan on scalping my lawn early September and then aerate and over seed it heavy with tall fescue.

greendoctor
06-20-2009, 07:57 PM
Actually, Ortho has a clover/oxalis killer in concentrate that will kill with one application...

That concentrate is 8% triclopyr amine. Clover and oxalis are easily killed with triclopyr.

Whitey4
06-21-2009, 12:55 PM
That concentrate is 8% triclopyr amine. Clover and oxalis are easily killed with triclopyr.

Didn't realise that was triclopyr... how is it on wild violets?

wnccutter
06-21-2009, 01:08 PM
2,4-D won't kill the clover that well, just the other broadleaves.

Try Tri-Mec for clover.

That's what I find to be true. 24d works well on large leaf weeds, but just doesn't knock out clover that well. At least that is my experience.

I'll have to pick up some Tri-Mec.

puppypaws
06-21-2009, 07:43 PM
2,4-D won't kill the clover that well, just the other broadleaves.

Try Tri-Mec for clover.

2, 4-D will kill clover very well, you just need to apply enough!

Trimec is nothing but 2,4-D with a very small percentage (.84% I think), of Dicamba added.

djflats
06-21-2009, 07:44 PM
If you let the clover and grass grow longer then cut it higher, will it eventually "weed" the clover out?

LushGreenLawn
06-21-2009, 08:09 PM
The percentage does not matter, there are herbicides that I use that come with an eye dropper for mixing. 24d will kill clover, it has a hard time though. Spreader sticker works wonders for this. I am wondering though, if you only have one lawn to spray, why go through the trouble of getting certified and paying licence fees. Just sub it out to a professional, at least then you know the right product is being used. You can charge profit and still make money on each application. For that matter, you could offer it to all of your customers, charge a profit on each application, and not have to do the work. I offer a discount to my grass cutters that are subbing apps to me to give them some room to make a profit.
2, 4-D will kill clover very well, you just need to apply enough!

Trimec is nothing but 2,4-D with a very small percentage (.84% I think), of Dicamba added.
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LushGreenLawn
06-21-2009, 08:11 PM
Keep in mind that clover does not do better in nitrogen poor soil than it would in nitrogen rich soil, but does better than the grass in nitrogen poor soil.

All true. Clover in a front yard.... not for me.... in the back yard, fine.

Clover does better in soil that is low in N, and these plants do produce and add N back into the lawn, but the leaf cover will eventually make the grass in the lawn weaker, and then get over powered by clover.

Right now, anything that is good for bees is a good thing.That includes clover.
Posted via Mobile Device

puppypaws
06-21-2009, 08:21 PM
The percentage does not matter, there are herbicides that I use that come with an eye dropper for mixing. 24d will kill clover, it has a hard time though. Spreader sticker works wonders for this. I am wondering though, if you only have one lawn to spray, why go through the trouble of getting certified and paying licence fees. Just sub it out to a professional, at least then you know the right product is being used. You can charge profit and still make money on each application. For that matter, you could offer it to all of your customers, charge a profit on each application, and not have to do the work. I offer a discount to my grass cutters that are subbing apps to me to give them some room to make a profit.

Posted via Mobile Device

I don't mix with an eye dropper since I am mixing a 1000 gallons at the time and spraying 100's of acres. You are talking about spreader sticker, I use crop oil and sometimes an adjuvant depending on what chemicals I am spraying.

You will find this interesting, Joy dish washing soap mixed with the spray, works as well as anything in getting the chemical to adhere, while actually opening the plant pours allowing the chemical to penetrate better.

I started doing this before crop oil and adjuvants came about.

You can put Joy dish detergent in a sprayer with a strong mix of 2,4-D and it will smoke clover, the trick is getting enough in the spray mix. Five ounces of 2,4-D per gallon of water will virtually knock it out overnight.

Nosmo
06-21-2009, 09:57 PM
Told ya so about 2,4-D in my earlier post. I said most products which kill clover contain 2,4-D. But I'll agree 2,4-D if used with a sticker (I use any liquid soap) and mixed about twice the strength as a normal application on other broadleafs will kill white clover.

I also use a sticker with my generic round-up too. Actually what a sticker does is this - it breaks the surface tension of the water allowing it to spread instead of beading up. When allowed to spread it also spreads the chemical.

Nosmo

Whitey4
06-21-2009, 10:17 PM
Keep in mind that clover does not do better in nitrogen poor soil than it would in nitrogen rich soil, but does better than the grass in nitrogen poor soil.


Posted via Mobile Device

OK, so can we say that grass does better in nitrogen rich soil? And then it becomes morre difficult for clover to get established? Chicken or the egg....

puppypaws
06-21-2009, 10:29 PM
Told ya so about 2,4-D in my earlier post. I said most products which kill clover contain 2,4-D. But I'll agree 2,4-D if used with a sticker (I use any liquid soap) and mixed about twice the strength as a normal application on other broadleafs will kill white clover.

I also use a sticker with my generic round-up too. Actually what a sticker does is this - it breaks the surface tension of the water allowing it to spread instead of beading up. When allowed to spread it also spreads the chemical.

Nosmo

You are are exactly right, this is exactly what a surfactant does, instead of beading it spreads smoothly over the entire surface. When there is beading involved, you have a certain percentage of runoff, losing some of your killing compound.

I am extremely impressed, you gave a very good definition, you explained it in a way most people would not know; unless they acquired this knowledge from facts.

Now, I will tell you a few more secrets. I always attempt to spray in the mornings or late afternoon when the plants pours are either open or going to open shortly. When the weather is extremely hot and the sun at its brightest in the middle parts of the day, a plant will close its pours attempting to protect itself and conserve moisture. The plant will then open its pours at night.

This is proven information I am giving you, you can spray one half the amount of chemical at night and get the same results as spraying the full recommended label rate during daylight hours. A number of large farming operations in the Midwest have installed lighting systems more powerful than what normally comes installed, allowing them to spray at night. The large flat open areas are good for this procedure, your GPS keeps you perfectly aligned with no overlap to keep you from wasting chemicals by double spraying. The extra lightning just makes sure you always see everything that may be in your path.

LushGreenLawn
06-21-2009, 11:43 PM
Puppypaws, my point was not to judge a product based on a percentage of AI. The eye dropper is for octane and a few nutsedge products. I use enough that I don't use the dropper they come with, but I wanted to make an analogy.

Btw. Sticker is not what causes water to spread over the leaf, that is a surficant.
I have used the dish soap when I've been out of spreader sticker, it does work, although in my opinion not as well.

The "spreader" in spreader sticker is what spreads the product. The sticker is a drying agent as well as a heavy base (like your dish soap). the surficant in the mix is what really makes it spread.

As far as the clover, whitey, I see what your saying, but my point was - if your comparing clover to clover, than clover growing in nitrigen rich or nitrogen poor soil will grow the same. It does not do poorly in nitrogen rich soil.

The reason that it is an indicator of low N is because when you have a lot of it, it means the grass is growing poorly. Its an "indicator" of low N, but that does not mean that it also does not thrive in nitrogen rich soil. If that was the case than to get rid of it all you would have to do is fertilize, and you wouldn't have to spray it.

Ikm not trying to argue, just share experience. If I'm wrong on any of this, please correct me. I learn a lot from these little debates.
Posted via Mobile Device

puppypaws
06-22-2009, 01:44 AM
Puppypaws, my point was not to judge a product based on a percentage of AI. The eye dropper is for octane and a few nutsedge products. I use enough that I don't use the dropper they come with, but I wanted to make an analogy.

Btw. Sticker is not what causes water to spread over the leaf, that is a surficant.
I have used the dish soap when I've been out of spreader sticker, it does work, although in my opinion not as well.

The "spreader" in spreader sticker is what spreads the product. The sticker is a drying agent as well as a heavy base (like your dish soap). the surficant in the mix is what really makes it spread.

As far as the clover, whitey, I see what your saying, but my point was - if your comparing clover to clover, than clover growing in nitrigen rich or nitrogen poor soil will grow the same. It does not do poorly in nitrogen rich soil.

The reason that it is an indicator of low N is because when you have a lot of it, it means the grass is growing poorly. Its an "indicator" of low N, but that does not mean that it also does not thrive in nitrogen rich soil. If that was the case than to get rid of it all you would have to do is fertilize, and you wouldn't have to spray it.

Ikm not trying to argue, just share experience. If I'm wrong on any of this, please correct me. I learn a lot from these little debates.
Posted via Mobile Device

Spreader Sticker is a Lesco product and is nothing but a non-ionic surfactant. They pump up the advertising with the same wording used in a good non-ionic surfactant, it cost a great deal more than I can buy the same product for, because of being used in the turf grass industry.

QUOTE:

Spreader Sticker

Use this professional spreader sticker to increase the efficiency of your herbicide or pesticide application. [Many professionals prefer to add this spreader sticker to SedgeHammer or Manage Herbicide for tough or stubborn problems.] This spreader sticker works on many different levels: helps herbicides stick to plants as a surfactant, breaks down the waxy coating of leaves on tough plants, non-ionic action has a positive attracting negative attraction, provides better coverage without excessive runoff and helps pesticides and herbicides penetrate better.

Activator adjuvants

The primary purpose of activator adjuvants is to enhance the “activity” of the pesticide product. These enhancements—both physical and chemical—generally lead to improved absorption and, as a result, a more efficient use of the pesticide. Activator adjuvants include surfactants, oils, and nitrogen-based fertilizers.

Surfactants

Surfactants (surface acting agents), also called wetting agents and spreaders, physically alter the surface tension of a spray droplet. For a pesticide to perform its function properly on a plant, the spray droplet must be able to wet the foliage and spread out evenly. Surfactants enlarge the area of pesticide coverage, thereby increasing the pest’s exposure to the chemical (see Figure 1). Surfactants are particularly important when applying a pesticide to a plant with waxy or hairy leaves. Without proper wetting and spreading, spray droplets often run off or fail to adequately cover these surfaces. Too much surfactant, however, can cause excessive runoff or deposit loss, in turn reducing pesticide efficacy.
Surfactants are classified by the way they ionize, or split apart, into electrically charged atoms or molecules called ions. A surfactant with a negative charge is anionic, one with a positive charge is cationic, and one with no electrical charge is nonionic. Pesticidal activity in the presence of a nonionic surfactant can be quite different from activity in the presence of a cationic or anionic surfactant.

Nosmo
06-22-2009, 06:39 AM
Thank you Puppy Paws for the additional information. What type surfactant would you recommend say for instance spraying White Clover and spraying Poison Ivy ?I wonder what type plain liquid soap would be ?

I believe you are correct when you mention the pours closing during the hotter parts of the day and in direct sunlight. I have some briars and the leaves are waxy looking and both 2,4-D and Generic (41%) Roundup take a long time to kill them off.

In my opinion these are much harder to get rid of than Poison Ivy or Clover.

Nosmo


Nosmo

puppypaws
06-22-2009, 07:55 AM
Thank you Puppy Paws for the additional information. What type surfactant would you recommend say for instance spraying White Clover and spraying Poison Ivy ?I wonder what type plain liquid soap would be ?

I believe you are correct when you mention the pours closing during the hotter parts of the day and in direct sunlight. I have some briars and the leaves are waxy looking and both 2,4-D and Generic (41%) Roundup take a long time to kill them off.

In my opinion these are much harder to get rid of than Poison Ivy or Clover.

Nosmo


Nosmo

Southern States has AMS Supreme and Sil-Spread I use, but any good non-ionic surfactant or surfactant with crop oil makes the chemical hotter.

http://www.southernstates.com/promotions/professionalturfguide/adjuvants.jsp

http://www.southernstates.com/promotions/cropresourcemanual/cropprotectants.jsp

Nosmo
06-22-2009, 09:54 AM
Puppy Paws I certainly thank you for the information.


I need to correct the spelling in a post I made at 4:30 this morning. It is bugging me to look at post #32. hah

Pores in the leaves - not pours. hah

Nosmo

puppypaws
06-22-2009, 02:39 PM
Puppy Paws I certainly thank you for the information.


I need to correct the spelling in a post I made at 4:30 this morning. It is bugging me to look at post #32. hah

Pores in the leaves - not pours. hah

Nosmo

I am the one that spelled it wrong to begin with, and this through you off, can't get them all right. I've never considered myself very good with grammar and the English language, my wife and daughter could be journalist or write a book, but not me, I can hardly talk and make people understand what I'm saying.

Nosmo
06-22-2009, 06:08 PM
Well anyhow I'm gonna pour them poor old pores on them white clovers real good out of a watering bucket loaded with soap and 2,4-D. hah
Nosmo

burge19
06-22-2009, 07:55 PM
2,4-D won't kill the clover that well, just the other broadleaves.

Try Tri-Mec for clover.

2-4-d seems to work well with me...

djflats
07-07-2009, 06:32 PM
Well I got some Bayer Advanced Crabgrass and Weed Killer to spray to try to get rid of some of this clover. I sprayed a few spots and the white flowers are turning brown and the stems are light-green-yellow. I guess it's working. I just hope there's grass under it or it doesn't kill what grass is there. I guess a few days will tell.

Nosmo
07-07-2009, 06:55 PM
Well I see you located some - I guess Lowes got some more in stock. It won't hurt the grass but it takes no time getting after that clover.

I haven't been bothered too much with crab grass this year but when I have used Bayer on it -- it is history.

Well talk to you later.

Nosmo

djflats
07-07-2009, 07:14 PM
Well I see you located some - I guess Lowes got some more in stock. It won't hurt the grass but it takes no time getting after that clover.

I haven't been bothered too much with crab grass this year but when I have used Bayer on it -- it is history.

Well talk to you later.

Nosmo

No crabgrass here either, just clover. Thank for the tip Nosmo. Later.......

djflats
07-07-2009, 10:53 PM
When using the Bayer Crabgrass and Weed Killer, how close can you get to trees or does it matter? I have 5 fairly new trees and I don't want to mess them up.
On the Pennington Weed and Feed(?)it says not to get too close to trees, or that's the way I understood it. The stuff didn't work anyway. The Bayer's is.

puppypaws
07-07-2009, 11:42 PM
When using the Bayer Crabgrass and Weed Killer, how close can you get to trees or does it matter? I have 5 fairly new trees and I don't want to mess them up.
On the Pennington Weed and Feed(?)it says not to get too close to trees, or that's the way I understood it. The stuff didn't work anyway. The Bayer's is.

This is the chemical combination, "Dicamba" is Banvel, which is very strong, this is why you see the small amount in this mixture. None of these chemicals are good for trees, but if there are no roots showing and you can keep the drift down, you can get within 10' with no problem.

2,4-D dimethylamine salt: 4.85% Quinclorac: 1.61% Dicamba, dimethylamine salt: 0.45

cecilianolandscaping
07-08-2009, 01:54 AM
quickest way to solve the problem with the white sea of clovers is to buy a fertilizer for that specific weed,, is good for all year and the costumers love it to see a green grass shows that after they hired u the grass has improved ... depending on the customer i would charge the cost of the fertilizer plus 5-10 dollars for the job and depending on the customer if he is real greedy, but pays his bills on time then i would just installed it for free, it pays off down the road.!

djflats
07-08-2009, 06:02 AM
Okay, thanks. After reading the instructions on the bottle again it says not to get it on the leafs. No roots are exposed. I'm using a hand-held 2 1/2 gallon sprayer, just spot spraying.

puppypaws
07-08-2009, 01:07 PM
Okay, thanks. After reading the instructions on the bottle again it says not to get it on the leafs. No roots are exposed. I'm using a hand-held 2 1/2 gallon sprayer, just spot spraying.

That is correct, and the reason I said to make sure where you drift may end up, you do not want this product on any leaves or foliage of susceptible plants, there is a possibility of damage.

puppypaws
07-08-2009, 01:23 PM
Sorry this was a double post I removed! :dizzy:

hackitdown
07-08-2009, 02:24 PM
I just nuked all the clover in my own yard with 2-4-D in spray form. Worked like a charm.

I used granular weed-n-feed (fert with 2-4-d) from Lesco for 4 years prior with no impact on the clover. I think the granules just roll off the clover. But it worked on everything else with "broad leaves".

puppypaws
07-08-2009, 02:57 PM
I just nuked all the clover in my own yard with 2-4-D in spray form. Worked like a charm.

I used granular weed-n-feed (fert with 2-4-d) from Lesco for 4 years prior with no impact on the clover. I think the granules just roll off the clover. But it worked on everything else with "broad leaves".

2,4-D is the main chemical to eradicate clover, but it will volatilize and drift into areas where it is not wanted sometimes. I actually use a drift ******ant if I have a concern with this problem. What this does in a normal persons way of thinking, is it makes the spray heavier, whereas it goes to the ground quicker and stays put, instead of floating around with air currents.

Nosmo
07-08-2009, 03:58 PM
When using straight 2-4,D and water add about a tablespoon to the 2-gallon mixture. Why ? To make what is called a sticker (surfactant) which breaks the surface tension of the water and allows the mixture to spread over the leaves rather than beading up.

Some products come with a sticker and it will be on the label somewhere. For example Bayer Crabgrass and Weedkiller has a sticker in the mixture.

I use both of the above products. Bayer seems to work faster on clover but costs a little more for a quart than 2,4-D when comparing quarts in the gallon size.

Nosmo

puppypaws
07-08-2009, 04:36 PM
When using straight 2-4,D and water add about a tablespoon to the 2-gallon mixture. Why ? To make what is called a sticker (surfactant) which breaks the surface tension of the water and allows the mixture to spread over the leaves rather than beading up.

Some products come with a sticker and it will be on the label somewhere. For example Bayer Crabgrass and Weedkiller has a sticker in the mixture.

I use both of the above products. Bayer seems to work faster on clover but costs a little more for a quart than 2,4-D when comparing quarts in the gallon size.

Nosmo

Quinclorac: 1.61% is what makes it seem a little quicker, but it really should not be a noticeable difference. I can spray 2,4-D on it late this afternoon and it will be turning brown tomorrow. Then again, I'm not really sure at this particular time, it is so dry here if you dropped a match, I don't have a clue where the burning would stop.

djflats
07-08-2009, 09:09 PM
One more question. How long do I have to wait to cut the yard after I spray? I didn't see anything about that on the bottle. Thanks.

K-OS
07-08-2009, 09:14 PM
Had a lot of success with Oracle (Dicamba)

puppypaws
07-08-2009, 10:00 PM
One more question. How long do I have to wait to cut the yard after I spray? I didn't see anything about that on the bottle. Thanks.

I would want clover to have one full night (this is when the pores open on all plant life), to trans-locate the chemical into its system. This is a short plant, which means when you mow very little foliage will be removed. I honestly believe with clover growing so low to the ground, you could probably mow 5 minutes after the chemical was applied and get excellent results. I personally like to know the pores opened and took the chemical completely into its system for one night, but that is only my opinion.

Different plant life and chemical compounds need to be handled in different ways. I am only speaking of clover and my experience with removing it from turf grass.

djflats
07-08-2009, 10:19 PM
I would want clover to have one full night (this is when the pores open on all plant life), to trans-locate the chemical into its system. This is a short plant, which means when you mow very little foliage will be removed. I honestly believe with clover growing so low to the ground, you could probably mow 5 minutes after the chemical was applied and get excellent results. I personally like to know the pores opened and took the chemical completely into its system for one night, but that is only my opinion.

Different plant life and chemical compounds need to be handled in different ways. I am only speaking of clover and my experience with removing it from turf grass.

I'm just spraying a little at a time. There's so much and some is scattered so I wait til it browns so I know where to spray(hand sprayer). It's been browning within 24 hours. I plan on cutting Friday after work. As of now they are calling for rain Saturday. Thanks.

Nosmo
07-12-2009, 06:31 AM
I was using some Bayer Weed and Crabgrass killer yesterday. Seems I was wrong about it having a sticker included in the formula. I believe it is my MSMA container which shows a sticker.

By the way both MSMA and Bayer will kill dallisgrass . MSMA will yellow bermuda grass -- the Bayer doesn't.

Nosmo

puppypaws
07-12-2009, 08:56 AM
I was using some Bayer Weed and Crabgrass killer yesterday. Seems I was wrong about it having a sticker included in the formula. I believe it is my MSMA container which shows a sticker.

By the way both MSMA and Bayer will kill dallisgrass . MSMA will yellow bermuda grass -- the Bayer doesn't.

Nosmo

If you have a mower that can cut Dallasgrass without leaving stringers, she is a good one. When it gets real dry like it is here at this time, Dallasgrass stems can get tough as baling twine. My mower does a very good job at low cutting heights with sharp fusion blades, but if I tried to cut high, it would leave a total mess.

MSMA is used on golf courses quiet regularly, I use to slip a little Gromoxone (Paraquat), to one golf course to kill Poa annua (annual Bluegrass), around their green collars. Paraquat is not suppose to be used on golf courses, which makes absolutely no sense; when farmers as myself use it very regularly. I spray it into my lake to kill filamentous type moss that floats on top of the water. I learn this from reading chemical compounds, if you buy Paraquat in labeled watershed usage form, it is called Diaquat and cost about $170.00 a gallon. I but Gromoxone (same compound, little stronger), in 2 1/2 gallon containers for $125.00.

It is the same with Roundup (Glyphosate), you can spray it in a pond with no problem, but it is not labeled and you can get fined. Glyphosate (Roundup), used under a watershed label is Rodeo, same compound, only went through more rigorous testing to pass EPA standards for watershed usage.

Nosmo
07-12-2009, 09:50 AM
There is a 3-acre field (not mine) on the south side of me. It is almost all dallisgrass. It gets brush hogged about every 4 to 6 weeks. Besides the seeds being blown over by the wind we got oodles of birds of all varieties including crows which carry the seeds.

Just about this time every year those seeds begin to come alive when the bermuda gets a little thinner. The Bayer does a good job the first time. Some may come up later -- if so it will get a visit from Dr. Bayer.:laugh:

Nosmo

djflats
07-12-2009, 10:05 AM
I'm glad you recommended Bayer...it's doing a number on the clover.

puppypaws
07-12-2009, 03:15 PM
There is a 3-acre field (not mine) on the south side of me. It is almost all dallisgrass. It gets brush hogged about every 4 to 6 weeks. Besides the seeds being blown over by the wind we got oodles of birds of all varieties including crows which carry the seeds.

Just about this time every year those seeds begin to come alive when the bermuda gets a little thinner. The Bayer does a good job the first time. Some may come up later -- if so it will get a visit from Dr. Bayer.:laugh:

Nosmo

Dallasgrass and Buckhorn Plantain is two of the most aggravating things there is to mow, there are several more but these two are bad.

bx24
07-13-2009, 06:18 PM
Southern States has AMS Supreme and Sil-Spread I use, but any good non-ionic surfactant or surfactant with crop oil makes the chemical hotter.

http://www.southernstates.com/promotions/professionalturfguide/adjuvants.jsp

http://www.southernstates.com/promotions/cropresourcemanual/cropprotectants.jsp


Lets just say I still use Confront on all my weeds. Always will on my stuff. Could careless on labels.

After 12 hours.

http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/4531/cimg0142v.jpg



I still also bata test SS products! :dancing: