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turf hokie
06-20-2009, 12:55 PM
Customer sent these pics and I dont have the ability to look at the lawn today.

Last round was all liquid--urea @1/2lb N per K, 12-0-0 iron @ 6 oz per K, merit, eliminate. Put down 2 1/2 weeks ago.

It has not stopped raining here for almost 2 weeks.

Red Thread is prevelant and have seen some dollar spot. I am leaning toward that just knowing conditions but thought the quick release N would have hidden it. Next round is 16-2-3 from Nutrients Plus in 2 weeks

This lawn was slow to green up this spring as it is KBG/PR sod blend.

He is a PITA and has not stopped complaining about this and that. This problem is front yard only back is pristine.

I am taking a soil sample for sh;ts and giggles. this lawn has not been prone to problems for the last 2 years.

Thanks for being another set of eyes since it is tough to tell from the pics.

Bryan

RAlmaroad
06-20-2009, 01:07 PM
I'm seeing a lot of Nitrogen and NO potassium. Those roots have got to have something to take in all of that Nitrogen. Any more info. Looks fungal to me.

turf hokie
06-20-2009, 01:12 PM
We put down a 10% potassium fert on the first round with dimension that was about 7 weeks ago.

I know it was more N than I wanted but we were looking for a quick green and with the weather conditions we wanted to push some growth to try to out grow any fungus.

90% of the soil tests around here come back high in P and K. It is just a matter of managing the availability of those nutrients.

That is why we are taking a soil test just to make sure as we have not tested in about 18months.

Whitey4
06-20-2009, 03:12 PM
Looks fungal to me too, but it sure doesn't look like red thread or dollar spot, but you already knew that. Maybe pythium? Could be one of those fungi that have to be examined with a microscope for an ID.

greendoctor
06-20-2009, 03:19 PM
Even if your fertility program is perfect, diseases will happen when the weather conditions do not cooperate. I have been surprised by dollar spot on my lawns as well. At that point I stop saying "why, why, why" and get on it with a fungicide rotation. There is nothing I can do about it being 80F and 75% humidity at night, with a day time high of 90+. There is much I can to to contain the problem and minimize the damage immediately. It seems that many like to dwell on "why, why why?" because it is politically correct to do so. Fungicides work when they are applied correctly.

foreplease
06-20-2009, 04:29 PM
It looks like brown patch to me. Watch for the areas inside the somke rings to wilt and die. Well...don't wait for that, do as greendoctor suggested. In addition to a fungicide, raise the height of cut, cut back on nitrogen until late summer, and hope things dry out.

RigglePLC
06-20-2009, 04:39 PM
My vote goes for red thread. Its everywhere. Around here red thread is common, disappears about mid July and dollarspot becomes prominent.

Unusual sod--part rye and part blue? Is it too high in ryegrass? What cultivar?

greendoctor
06-20-2009, 04:47 PM
On a residential lawn, with active disease, I apply 3336 + Prostar, followed by Eagle 20EW, followed by Insignia. This is done on a two week rotation. Be it brown patch, dollar spot, leaf spot or red thread, this rotation picks it up. The cost of the fungicides is way less than my losing the account because the lawn died. I also up the potassium and micronutrients on affected turf. All of my fungicide applications are applied in a mix of 1/4 lb potassium nitrate and the label rate of an iron, manganese, magnesium and sulfur micro mix.

turf hokie
06-20-2009, 07:00 PM
Thanks for the help guys. I am pretty sure it is red thread just based on weather even though I cant see the red mycelium. I thought maybe brown patch as well, but the conditions just arent here for rhizoctonia now, I could be wrong but from the pics it is hard to tell.

We just starting getting humid yesterday and of course it has been raining again today since about 1pm but if you are watching the open your probably already see how wet we have been.

I dont know what types of KBG/PR it is as the lawn has been established for a while. I can tell you that we overseeded with nutrients plus seed in the fall and a straight rye this spring. I have to look at the specs on the seed, maybe Barry could help, it was a KBG/PR mix and the only cultivar I remember is Guinness but that could be b/c I am part Irish:dizzy:.

I am going to apply a fungicide on Monday, I have to look on the shelf for what I have in stock. I will probably go with Eagle first. It sucks that we cant use Manicure (Chlorothalonil) on residential.

Again, Thanks for the help.

greendoctor
06-20-2009, 07:07 PM
Back in the day, I remember mixing 8 oz 3336 and Daconil to treat fungus infected lawns. It always worked and no I did not kill anyone's dogs, cats or kids spraying this on a lawn.

phasthound
06-20-2009, 07:33 PM
Send a sample to Rutgers Plant Diagnostic Lab http://njaes.rutgers.edu/services/
Rich Buckley will give you an accurate diagnosis with both cultural and chemical controls.

Whitey4
06-20-2009, 11:41 PM
Thanks for the help guys. I am pretty sure it is red thread just based on weather even though I cant see the red mycelium. I thought maybe brown patch as well, but the conditions just arent here for rhizoctonia now, I could be wrong but from the pics it is hard to tell.

We just starting getting humid yesterday and of course it has been raining again today since about 1pm but if you are watching the open your probably already see how wet we have been.

I dont know what types of KBG/PR it is as the lawn has been established for a while. I can tell you that we overseeded with nutrients plus seed in the fall and a straight rye this spring. I have to look at the specs on the seed, maybe Barry could help, it was a KBG/PR mix and the only cultivar I remember is Guinness but that could be b/c I am part Irish:dizzy:.

I am going to apply a fungicide on Monday, I have to look on the shelf for what I have in stock. I will probably go with Eagle first. It sucks that we cant use Manicure (Chlorothalonil) on residential.

Again, Thanks for the help.

If you saw it in person, the red thread ID would be easy.... that stuff is probably the easiest fungi to ID there ever was! Based on the pics, it doesn't look like RT to me, but it could be.

One thing for sure... red thread is rampant here as you mentioned, so that alone makes it a likely suspect. Generally I don't see that sort of compaction with RT though. That turf looks matted, and I don't see that with most red thread infestations. That kind of matting is very typical of pythium though. I've seen some pythium here on the island too, but not like red thread, which is everywhere.

I won't jump on the RT diagnosis bandwagon based on the pics.... only looking at it, preferably in the morning would convince me it isn't pythium.

RigglePLC
06-21-2009, 10:38 AM
Prostar is great on red thread. Also strobin fungicides are highly effective--best for red thread. Safer--because you need only a few ounces per acre. Heritage, Compass, Disarm, Insignia. See this site NCSU:
http://www.turffiles.ncsu.edu/Diseases/Red_Thread.aspx

DUSTYCEDAR
06-22-2009, 12:20 AM
crank up the n baby

JWTurfguy
06-23-2009, 06:23 PM
One last idea, just thinking outside the box a little....

Yes, there's a good chance you've got the beginnings of a Pythium outbreak (not hard to believe considering how much rain and humidity we've had) but, unless those gray areas in the pic are actually mycelia (resolution in the pic isn't that great when I try to magnify the image so it's hard to tell), make sure you check for sod webworm before you spend money on a fungicide app.

Before everyone jumps on me for this one, check out the attached pic. Again, it's hard for me to tell if the gray spots are mycelia because of the resolution of the image in your pics. If it's mycelia, it's fungus (obviously).

Hopefully the pic attaches.

Shane

JWTurfguy
06-23-2009, 06:25 PM
Sorry, forgot to cite the source of the pic.

http://extension.usu.edu/saltlake/htm/horticulture-gardening/sodworm

turf hokie
06-23-2009, 09:02 PM
Thanks for the help guys. The landscaper (very knowledgeable) and a good friend of mine took a look at it for me.

it was a touch of red thread but the biggest problem was the fact that I did not know where the pics were taken in the lawn. The pics were from a shaded area under a large white oak. this area has been a problem in the past and with all the rain and lack of sun it made the problem a bit more noticeable.

BUT.... the 2 pics I posted were the only spots in a 10k lawn that were not damn near perfect.

The homeowner actually got on his hands and knees and told my buddy that the lawn was thin and he could see dirt as he spread and pulled at the grass. He wanted to know why his lawn was not as thick as the grass at his country club. It was explained to him about different types of grass and how it might be possible to see dirt on any grass if you dig hard enough.

When he stated that he just did not believe us and was p-d off that his lawn was not perfect my buddy walked off the property.

Time to find another LCO and another lawn service. This guy has called to complain at least once a week all year. Enough is enough.

And that is the end of my venting.