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avguy
06-22-2009, 05:39 PM
We moved to our new home 2 years ago. The previous owner had pretty much let the crab grass & weeds get the better of him. Had a soil test done that came back 4.9. The last 2 years I've been amending the soil per the extension offices recommendation.
Last July I tried to kill off the Bermuda in a 14k sqft area ( I have 2 acres) of the front yard with the intention of re-seeding with a bg/fescue mix that fall. My GF threw a fit as she liked the Bermuda even though that area was 90% weeds & 10% Bermuda. So I told her I would re-seed with bermuda this spring after I got the lawn leveled a little bit.
It is mid June here in E. Tennessee & we are now getting married here at the house in Sept. She does not want a dead lawn.
So I told here I'd plant this week & if it comes up it comes up but not to get her hopes up.
So what are my chances at getting germination this late?
Her's a pic of the area I'm talking about.
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2512.jpg Thanks........Scott

doug1980
06-22-2009, 05:56 PM
Well if you aren't watering than I say your odds are very very bad. Plus did you work up the soil at all or just throw seed on the ground? Prep work and maintenance after the seeding is the most important part. Anyone can throw seed on dirt...getting it to grow takes work.

avguy
06-22-2009, 06:07 PM
Sorry I didn't give enough info to make it more clear. I have not seeded yet. I have 25 yards of topsoil being delivered later in the week. They guarantee a ph of at least 6.5 in their soil. The topsoil people recommend tilling the two together. It's hard to see in the pic but this area has a lot of swells, drops & high spots. Once it's leveled (hopefully this weekend) it will be seeded & covered w/straw. I have irrigation as well. Thanks

bigslick7878
06-22-2009, 08:16 PM
If you want to make your wife happy sod it,probably run you in the 5k range but that is the only way you are going to guarantee results.

It is going to take FOREVER establishing grass on that hill because all the water is just going to run right off,and you are going to be trying to do this in the dead of summer.

Good move with the top soil and tilling it in though,that is a good start.And yes it would be good to mix it in with the existing.

White Gardens
06-22-2009, 10:26 PM
Once it's leveled (hopefully this weekend) it will be seeded & covered w/straw. I have irrigation as well. Thanks



If you want to minimize your weeds, don't use straw. If you use straw, get it from an erosion supply house. Their straw usually has been sterilized.

If I were you, I would run the irrigation twice a day for 5-10 minutes in each zone to keep the seed bed moist without over-watering and getting runoff.

As you start to get establishment, cut back to watering once a day, then every other, etc....

Also, I don't know too much about burmuda seed, but, if you can, I would rent a slit-seeder from a rental shop. Set it to half the rate and seed it at least 2 different directions, and then overseed.

Don't forget to fertilize, and don't spray any herbicide until it's mowed at least 4 times.

Whitey4
06-23-2009, 12:17 AM
In my opinion, wait until the fall, kill everything, and then renovate and reseed.

White Gardens
06-23-2009, 12:51 AM
In my opinion, wait until the fall, kill everything, and then renovate and reseed.

Ya, that's the best way to go.

Would you like to have a lawn that looks O.K. for a Wedding, or look like crappy for a wedding.

I would try now. If it were my wife, the last thing I would want to hear for 50 years is how great the wedding was and how bad the yard looked. You know a woman wouldn't ever let a man live that down. :laugh:

Smallaxe
06-23-2009, 08:49 AM
Use a floating row cover rather than straw. Or maybe both. Your seedlings are going to bake in the sun now, no matter how much water you do. Its already started up here.

muddstopper
06-23-2009, 10:27 PM
Avguy, dont pay those northernfolks any attention, they dont know squat about growing bermuda since all they fool with are cool season grasses.

Buy a premium hulled and coated bermuda seed such as Yukon for the cold tolerance in your area. Seed at the 4lb per 1000sqft rate. Dont use any fertilizer when you seed. Set irrigation timers to water for 5 minutes, 6 times a day in each zone, Less if you start seeing puddeling, making sure you have even coverage and you will see green in about a week. Fertilize at two weeks using about 1/4lb N per 1000sqft and adjust irrigation to longer times and less frequently, but still not to the point of puddeling. Repeat fertilization at 4 and 6 weeks and then set up a regular fertilization schedule to reflect the growing needs of the grass. Mow when grass reaches 3 inch in height to a finished cut height of about 2 inches. With proper mowing and fertilization, you will have a sod quality lawn in about 8 weeks, just in time for the wedding, but it will go dormant when the weather starts to frost.

fl-landscapes
06-23-2009, 10:37 PM
Avguy, dont pay those northernfolks any attention, they dont know squat about growing bermuda since all they fool with are cool season grasses.

Buy a premium hulled and coated bermuda seed such as Yukon for the cold tolerance in your area. Seed at the 4lb per 1000sqft rate. Dont use any fertilizer when you seed. Set irrigation timers to water for 5 minutes, 6 times a day in each zone, Less if you start seeing puddeling, making sure you have even coverage and you will see green in about a week. Fertilize at two weeks using about 1/4lb N per 1000sqft and adjust irrigation to longer times and less frequently, but still not to the point of puddeling. Repeat fertilization at 4 and 6 weeks and then set up a regular fertilization schedule to reflect the growing needs of the grass. Mow when grass reaches 3 inch in height to a finished cut height of about 2 inches. With proper mowing and fertilization, you will have a sod quality lawn in about 8 weeks, just in time for the wedding, but it will go dormant when the weather starts to frost.

I agree with mud. Especially for bermuda if you meant too late because of the heat you got it backwards bermuda loves the heat....the hotter the better usually. I would only disagree with the no fert at time of seeding and would recommend a high phosphorous starter fert when you seed. Not saying I;m right he's wrong just different opinions. You will have green within a week and you'll be mowing within 3. Like he said KEEP THE SEED MOIST.

bigslick7878
06-23-2009, 11:35 PM
Avguy, dont pay those northernfolks any attention, they dont know squat about growing bermuda since all they fool with are cool season grasses.

Buy a premium hulled and coated bermuda seed such as Yukon for the cold tolerance in your area. Seed at the 4lb per 1000sqft rate. Dont use any fertilizer when you seed. Set irrigation timers to water for 5 minutes, 6 times a day in each zone, Less if you start seeing puddeling, making sure you have even coverage and you will see green in about a week. Fertilize at two weeks using about 1/4lb N per 1000sqft and adjust irrigation to longer times and less frequently, but still not to the point of puddeling. Repeat fertilization at 4 and 6 weeks and then set up a regular fertilization schedule to reflect the growing needs of the grass. Mow when grass reaches 3 inch in height to a finished cut height of about 2 inches. With proper mowing and fertilization, you will have a sod quality lawn in about 8 weeks, just in time for the wedding, but it will go dormant when the weather starts to frost.

Sounds easy.

Go for it.

avguy
06-24-2009, 08:41 AM
Thanks for all the replies! GF says thank you as well. Lol...the way she's worrying about everything you would think the Pope was going to show up here!

I'm headed to Lesco this morning and will be tilling & spreading top soil this afternoon. I'll update this thread in about 10 days or so. Hopefully the next pic will be green instead of brown:clapping:

Thanks again......Scott

bigslick7878
06-24-2009, 03:06 PM
Thanks for all the replies! GF says thank you as well. Lol...the way she's worrying about everything you would think the Pope was going to show up here!

I'm headed to Lesco this morning and will be tilling & spreading top soil this afternoon. I'll update this thread in about 10 days or so. Hopefully the next pic will be green instead of brown:clapping:

Thanks again......Scott

You will need about 60 pounds of seed to start,and then another 15 to go over it again in a few weeks to fill in some spots when it doesn't come in perfectly.

Its going to take every bit of the 2 1/2 months you have til the wedding to get it established on that hill.Average full coverage and maturity time for Bermuda is 8-10 weeks.

I would water about 5 times a day.

Make sure you use starter fertilizer when you seed the first time.

You MUST roll it after you seed to make sure it is firmly in the soil and not just laying on top so it can wash away.

Good Luck,you will need it.

muddstopper
06-24-2009, 05:38 PM
If you are going to use a starter fert at the time of planting, make sure it doesnot contain any Urea Nitrogen. Urea will convert to ammonium really fast in all this heat. The N conversion and resulting gassing off will result in a seed kill off situation. An ammonium Nitrogen based fertilizer would be a much better choice, but make sure it is well watered into the soil after application. Hulled seed is much more succeptable to the the gassing off effects of the N conversions, hince my recommendations to not use fert for the initial seeding.

avguy
06-24-2009, 07:13 PM
If you are going to use a starter fert at the time of planting, make sure it doesnot contain any Urea Nitrogen. Urea will convert to ammonium really fast in all this heat. The N conversion and resulting gassing off will result in a seed kill off situation. An ammonium Nitrogen based fertilizer would be a much better choice, but make sure it is well watered into the soil after application. Hulled seed is much more succeptable to the the gassing off effects of the N conversions, hince my recommendations to not use fert for the initial seeding.
Went to Lesco today & all they had was hulled seed. Called a few other places & they either didn't know what they had or it was hulled. The Co-op had a brand called Laredo @ $6.19/lb or hulled @ $2.50/lb. Because I'm so late in getting this in the ground I don't think I have much of an option on the seed. Asked all three places about a coated seed & specifically the Yukon & all I got was a constipated look on their faces.

I did get the yard tilled today & got my top soil this afternoon. The top soil was very wet...took the guy 20 minutes to get it off the dump truck as it just stuck to the bed of the truck. To make matters worse I'm moving this stuff around with a compact utility tractor & it doesn't take much of that wet top soil to over load the front end loader. Small scoops & many many trips back to the pile.

I'm going to try to get this wrapped up by tomorrow eve as we are expecting rain here on Fri. Thanks again to all for your help! Scott

bigslick7878
06-24-2009, 07:42 PM
Went to Lesco today & all they had was hulled seed. Called a few other places & they either didn't know what they had or it was hulled. The Co-op had a brand called Laredo @ $6.19/lb or hulled @ $2.50/lb. Because I'm so late in getting this in the ground I don't think I have much of an option on the seed. Asked all three places about a coated seed & specifically the Yukon & all I got was a constipated look on their faces.

I did get the yard tilled today & got my top soil this afternoon. The top soil was very wet...took the guy 20 minutes to get it off the dump truck as it just stuck to the bed of the truck. To make matters worse I'm moving this stuff around with a compact utility tractor & it doesn't take much of that wet top soil to over load the front end loader. Small scoops & many many trips back to the pile.

I'm going to try to get this wrapped up by tomorrow eve as we are expecting rain here on Fri. Thanks again to all for your help! Scott

Bermuda seed is very expensive per pound(the seed is microscopic and there are way more seeds per pound than other grasses).That seed you are getting for that price is garbage and you are wasting your money.

The kind that was recommended earlier (Yukon) should run about $500 for 25 pounds.DO NOT cut corners when picking a seed and settle for a cheap one,it makes a HUGE difference.You get what you pay for,and every seed has a different genetic makeup to combat weeds and all types of other issues that could arise down the road.

http://www.bermudagrass.com/info/yukon.html

You can order it here...

http://www.seedland.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=Seedland&Category_Code=YUKON

$529.00 for a 25 pound bag,You will need 3 when its all said and done.

I'm telling you don't waste your money with that cheap stuff,you will regret it later.

avguy
06-24-2009, 07:56 PM
Bermuda seed is very expensive per pound(the seed is microscopic and there are way more seeds per pound than other grasses).That seed you are getting for that price is garbage and you are wasting your money.

The kind that was recommended earlier (Yukon) should run about $500 for 25 pounds.DO NOT cut corners when picking a seed and settle for a cheap one,it makes a HUGE difference.You get what you pay for,and every seed has a different genetic makeup to combat weeds and all types of other issues that could arise down the road.

http://www.bermudagrass.com/info/yukon.html

You can order it here...

http://www.seedland.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=Seedland&Category_Code=YUKON

$529.00 for a 25 pound bag,You will need 3 when its all said and done.

I'm telling you don't waste your money with that cheap stuff,you will regret it later.
I think I'm going to have to settle for the Lesco @ $4.30/lb. I'm renovating 15k sq ft now but have to address the rest of the lawn next spring. It's a little over 2 acres.
Are you saying the inexpensive Bermuda will always look bad? Or will I just have to seed more often to get it to fill in?

alltoroformetwo
06-24-2009, 08:20 PM
Put down sod. Between the slope the heat and likely water restrictions you are fighting a losing battle.

bigslick7878
06-24-2009, 08:28 PM
Put down sod. Between the slope the heat and likely water restrictions you are fighting a losing battle.

"Losing battle" is a good way to put it.

If he doesn't want to spend the extra $1000 for some quality seed I doubt he is spending 5 grand (and a hell of a lot of labor) to put down sod.

avguy
07-15-2009, 12:04 PM
Wanted to update this & thank everyone again for their input. The lawn was seeded on 6/28 so it's been about 18 days. I had some real concerns about possible erosion but with the exception of the first night we had very little rain for the first 8 days or so which allowed me to control the amount of water it received. Had a 2' x 40' area in front of one of the downsputs that empties into the yard wash out the first night. Repaired it the next morning & ran a temporary drain line to divert the water after that. Lesson learned on that one.

While the yard hasn't filled in as much as I would have liked I do think it will eventually. Going to evaluate this weekend if I should go ahead & slit seed it again now or just wait till next year?

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2599.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2600.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2601.jpg

bigslick7878
07-15-2009, 01:08 PM
If you started now you might as well finish or all those bare areas will be filled with weeds.

More seed,more water..... repeat repeat repeat.

fl-landscapes
08-31-2009, 07:45 PM
its been a couple months....just curious how the repair job looks now that it has had time to fill in??

avguy
09-01-2009, 08:59 AM
I'm very pleased with how much it has filled in given how late it was planted. Still have a few bare spots here & there but they are filling in pretty quick. In the bottom picture you can see a good size area in the middle that has been slower filling in. This is where the dump truck came through the yard with the top soil. The area was dragged & covered with top soil after the truck left. Not sure what was up with that.

So other than pulling crabgrass until my hands bled all is good. Thanks for asking. Scott


http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2599.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2653.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2600.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2654.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2602.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2655.jpg

White Gardens
09-01-2009, 01:05 PM
:clapping:

Not too bad of results for a seeding job.

Is the Fiance' happy with it ??

fl-landscapes
09-01-2009, 01:34 PM
That came out pretty good. The bare spots....problem with soil? Are you gonna seed those areas or wait for them to fill in? With proper care I think seeded bermuda makes a great lawn contrary to popular belief. Nice job!

avguy
09-01-2009, 02:03 PM
:clapping:

Not too bad of results for a seeding job.

Is the Fiance' happy with it ??

She's ecstatic & If she's happy...I'm happy.

That came out pretty good. The bare spots....problem with soil? Are you gonna seed those areas or wait for them to fill in? With proper care I think seeded bermuda makes a great lawn contrary to popular belief. Nice job!

Not sure what the problem with the bare spots was but they are filling in. I expect they will all be filled in in another 30 days or so. I'm kind of anxious to see what it looks like next summer.

Thanks for the comments! Scott

bigslick7878
09-01-2009, 10:46 PM
Not bad at all, that sprinkler must have been running 24/7.

Congrats.

avguy
09-02-2009, 08:48 AM
Not bad at all, that sprinkler must have been running 24/7.

Congrats.

As I said earlier I really got lucky as there was very little rain the 1st couple of weeks which allowed me to control how much water it got. I had some real concerns about erosion & there was a definite pucker factor anytime it did rain.

Water bill wasn't too bad....right at $100 over normal. Watered 3-5 times a day until it really started to come in then dropped to once a day. Thanks. Scott

RigglePLC
09-02-2009, 10:06 PM
Bravo! Congrats Scott. I am impressed. A steady diet of fertilizer will help it fill in faster--say every 30 days. Cut back when the mowing becomes burdensome, and it is thick enough. It is Ok to transplant some sprigs from thick areas to thin areas to help it fill in. You do not have to pull crabgrass. Cut it off flush to the soil with a saw-tooth steak knife or drywall saw. It is an annual; roots do not sprout. Local area guys can advise you on weed control and perhaps chemicals you can use on crabgrass--but calling a professional would be quicker.

bigslick7878
09-03-2009, 12:41 AM
For next year to avoid the crabgrass issues I would go over the lawn very carefully and mark any even slightly thin areas and overseed to fill them in. Do it like a grid after you mow or something to make sure you dont miss any spots. It might take some time but it isd better than having spots where crabgrass can come in next year.

Most of it looks pretty thick but I can see some areas that are thin from the pics. More than likely those will fill in through normal fertilization but why take that chance, just throw some seed in those spots to be SURE they fill in properly. Its an ideal time to do it right now.

If there are any thin areas like that next season that crabgrass will invade in a heartbeat, the best way to avoid that is to have the grass so thick it has no room to come in and ruin the work you have done.

Keep us posted.

avguy
09-13-2009, 08:01 AM
THANK YOU!!!!!!

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2675.jpg

bigslick7878
09-13-2009, 12:40 PM
Congrats!

Now get all those damn cars off the lawn!

phasthound
09-13-2009, 01:51 PM
That's one hell of a party just to celebrate a new lawn! :)
Good job! :clapping:

fl-landscapes
09-13-2009, 04:23 PM
Hey! Get those cars off OUR new lawn!!:)

avguy
01-22-2010, 09:15 AM
Hello again and another thank you for all of your help last fall! I received a ton of compliments on the lawn at the wedding & gave all the credit to you guys. Funny as I had several (mostly older) people a little puzzled say "who helped you"? I just laughed & said some people on the internet :laugh:

Anyway, I've got some strange grasses/ weeds that have popped up over the winter. My question is now that the bermuda is dormant is it ok to go ahead & spray them now with some gly or should I wait until spring? I don't want to do anything that will have a negative effect on the bermuda. Scott

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2815-1.jpg

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2816-1.jpg

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2817-1.jpg

avguy
01-23-2010, 08:12 AM
Never mind....got my answer on the pesticide forum. But again thank you! Scott

DKJLawnCare
01-23-2010, 09:39 AM
Hey Scott, that Lawn of yours turned out beautiful. Glad you found your answer. And Congrats on the wedding.

Barefoot James
01-23-2010, 02:18 PM
You could lightly spot spray those fescues, ryes and clovers popping up with no more than 2% gly per gallon while the bermuda grass is dormate. But with reg compost top dressing and tea that bermuda should and will stangle out everythng. Take a http://www.grassstitcher.com/ - seed and cover with a light compost top dressing this spring those problem areas. You could slit seed an annual rye this fall and have green all year. Rye only cost you about - $70 for 14,000 sq ft.

avguy
01-23-2010, 04:06 PM
DJK....I see your just down the street from me. Thanks for the compliment!

Barefoot....Thanks for the 2% info. That's what I'll do. The front yard has actually filled in since I posted that last pic. Very few bare areas now... it just needs a season to fill in.

This spring I have a 41,000 sqft area in the back that I will be renovating like I did the front. Little larger area but at least it is semi-level ground. Still undecided whether I'm going to plant bermuda or blue grass. I prefer the looks of the blue grass over the bermuda but I haven't forgotten about the drought we were in a couple years ago. Might be a game time decision :laugh: Scott

superintendent
01-23-2010, 07:28 PM
No bg just go bermuda and overseed with Rye and you'll have the best looking grass all yr round between bermuda and rye. It does look like you let the bermuda go into dormant dry.

fl-landscapes
01-24-2010, 02:01 PM
No bg just go bermuda and overseed with Rye and you'll have the best looking grass all yr round between bermuda and rye. It does look like you let the bermuda go into dormant dry.

Was going to suggest the same thing. Overseed with rye when your bermuda goes dormant and you will have a great lawn year round.

avguy
01-24-2010, 04:46 PM
No bg just go bermuda and overseed with Rye and you'll have the best looking grass all yr round between bermuda and rye. It does look like you let the bermuda go into dormant dry.

What do you mean by go into dormant dry?

The winter rye idea might just be enough to push me to the bermuda. Also, I already have several stands of bermuda in the back scattered between the weeds & crabgrass. If I go with the BG I feel like it'll be a fight to keep the bermuda already there from coming back eventually.

Do you plant the rye at the same time as the bermuda? Scott

Barefoot James
01-24-2010, 07:46 PM
You would need to over seed the bermuda with rye every fall - Oct in your case with annual rye.

bigslick7878
01-26-2010, 10:24 PM
No bg just go bermuda and overseed with Rye and you'll have the best looking grass all yr round between bermuda and rye. It does look like you let the bermuda go into dormant dry.

I second that, with the way that bermuda came in no sense in messing with a good thing. That type of grass really thrived in your area after you planted it.

In your part of the country bluegrass could be very problematic when it gets hot during the summer.

Stick with the bermuda, if it is flat land like you say it will be much easier to establish as well compared to planting on that mountain in the front of the house.

avguy
01-27-2010, 11:41 AM
Here's a couple of pics of the area I'm talking about.
I guess bermuda does make the most sense in my situation + my wife likes it..... although she thinks the yard looks just fine the way it is :confused:
Hard to tell from the pics but it is rough as hell out there...I almost need to wear a mouth guard when I mow.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2821-1.jpg

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2826.jpg

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2823.jpg

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2818.jpg

bigslick7878
01-27-2010, 02:19 PM
One of the reasons the front came in so good was because you amended the soil, make sure you do that again. It makes a HUGE difference!

Get it from the same place and you should be good to go.

But that area will be much easier to do then the front, the water will actually sit and not just run off like a lot of it would on that slope.

Is that fescue planted now and a warm season dormant with all the brown spots?

avguy
01-27-2010, 02:54 PM
Those brown spots are patches of dormant bermuda, not sure what the other grasses are. Tons & tons of weeds, crabgrass, you name it out there. A lot of moss along the woods line. The entire yard was originally seeded in bermuda 13yrs ago when the house was built. The previous owner kinda let the lawn get away from him. I've been working on it (amending the soil) since we moved here 3 yrs ago. I'll get a 2nd soil test done this spring before I do anything. PH 3 yrs ago was 4.9

Hard to tell from the pics but the entire area is pretty rough. I think the lawn was graded with a box blade & tractor. I think I might just see what it would cost to get a bobcat & operator for a day & see if they can level it out a little more. If the soil checks out I think I can just move it around a little & not have to bring in more top soil. Thanks Scott

bigslick7878
01-27-2010, 05:00 PM
Well obviously if the dormant spots are bermuda the rest of the grass is a cool season and it looks like fescue to me but hard to tell from the pictures. But I am going to go with tall fescue pretty sure.

That said, I have never switched from a cool season to a warm season like bermuda especially on a lot that size. Usually warm season grass will take over a cool season, but I would kill off all that existing (except the bermuda) and then replant if it is a lot of weeds and crabgrass like you said.

And I would still get some top soil right before you seed even if it is a light coat on top, it will ensure the seed gets good contact. Having all those uneven spots filled in is crucial as well, you need it nice and level if you don't want problems later on with weeds and water retention/drainage.

Smallaxe
01-27-2010, 06:47 PM
The actual grass, you do have, in those photos, are much too good to be Bermuda. or , any other Southern grass I've seen.

Whatever you have, that, what, is still alive, in the photos,, needs to be alive , and, in the bare spots, as well...

If it's ,Fescue, I would not be looking for what makes it go... so much as... What made it stop.
Find out what happened in the "Kill Zones", and go from there...

avguy
01-28-2010, 09:29 AM
The actual grass, you do have, in those photos, are much too good to be Bermuda. or , any other Southern grass I've seen.

Whatever you have, that, what, is still alive, in the photos,, needs to be alive , and, in the bare spots, as well...

If it's ,Fescue, I would not be looking for what makes it go... so much as... What made it stop.
Find out what happened in the "Kill Zones", and go from there...

The dark green grass I think is tall fescue....seems to grow in clumps. The bare ground you see in the 3rd pic was taken at the back of the property. That area is under a cedar tree that was completely grown over with briars/thickets/vines etc. that I cleared when I moved in. I also found cinder block, pea gravel, lanscape timbers & a couple of old christmas trees back there.

Bigslick....I think the reason the bermuda never overtook the other grasses is because of the poor condition of the soil. I was told by the extension office that did the soil sample that the soil was so acidic back there that just about all that would grow would be weeds until I got the soil amended.

This will be my 3rd year of adding fertilizer & lime to that area. Scott

avguy
06-28-2010, 04:43 PM
Well I finally got my renovation done!

Sprayed with gly...

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2957.jpg

Set the tiller depth to remove about 95% of the grass trying to leave as much of the topsoil as possible.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2972.jpg

The skid steer then skimmed the old grass off & loaded it into the dump truck. Took 6 loads of grass out of here.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_2970.jpg

Ran the harley rake and then the rockhound. 13 hours start to finish. I used Sunstar Bermuda recommended by the guy at Lesco. It's considered a medium grade bermuda. Has a pretty fine blade to it. From what I can see so far I think it's going to look very good.

Mixed the seed with sand & then used a push spreader to spread it. I have a spreader for the tractor but I wanted the soil loose for the seed & was afraid I'd compact it too much driving over it.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_3004.jpg

Lol....my poor man's irrigation system. I had 13 sprinklers out there. I'd run them 1 at a time for about 30 minutes twice a day. Opted not to use straw this time either....

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_3029.jpg

The seed was spread on 6/5. Had germination 6 days later. Couple more pics...

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_3034.jpg

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_3041.jpg

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_3048.jpg

These last 2 photos were taken this afternoon. I still have a few areas that need some attention but over all I'm very pleased. Still fertilizing & cutting every 3 days.

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_3058.jpg

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/100_3056-1.jpg

Once again.....thanks to all for your input! Scott

bigslick7878
06-28-2010, 08:01 PM
Last pic looks sweeet!

Everyone take note this is the result you get if you take the time and effort to do it right.

dahammer
07-31-2011, 11:24 PM
Very impressive, avguy. I have a question, probably a dumb one, but a question nonetheless. Why scrap the old grass off with the skid steer and remove it? Why couldn't you just leave it or else burn it off before tilling?

Smallaxe
08-01-2011, 08:34 AM
My question is: How can a spring seeding work at all!??!!!? Doesn't that just grow weeds? shouldn't you have pre-m out as soon as things start to green??!!? :)

avguy
08-01-2011, 11:39 AM
Very impressive, avguy. I have a question, probably a dumb one, but a question nonetheless. Why scrap the old grass off with the skid steer and remove it? Why couldn't you just leave it or else burn it off before tilling?

We didn't till the soil as it was too large of an area for me. After removing the old grass we went over the area with a rockhound & then a harley rake. The front lawn at the beginning of this thread was completely tilled & the existing grass/weeds were just buried. That worked as well. Thanks for the comments!

dahammer
08-01-2011, 10:18 PM
We didn't till the soil as it was too large of an area for me. After removing the old grass we went over the area with a rockhound & then a harley rake. The front lawn at the beginning of this thread was completely tilled & the existing grass/weeds were just buried. That worked as well. Thanks for the comments!

Ahh, I see, was just too much for the little tractor and tiller, gotcha. I have around 4 acres here and when I built the house I "attempted" seeding bermuda on an area around the house probably about an acre in size. But I didn't have anywhere near as good results as what you got. I keep telling myself that I'm going to redo it and do it right this time, but I haven't yet.

avguy
08-02-2011, 07:57 AM
Lol....it wasn't too much for the little tractor, it was too much for little me :laugh: I'd already brought in top soil, tilled and then drug a 14k sqft area in the front previously. I knew how much work that was which is why I took a different route for the back & brought in the skid steer. I spent several days working on the front & knocked out the back in one day.

Have you had a soil test done? If not you should. My soil was very very poor & I spent a couple years amending the soil before I even tried to seed.

Patriot Services
08-02-2011, 10:06 AM
I have made a concentrated effort this year to hype Bermuda yards. People were getting tired of replacing sod every year from frost and other ills that plague SA varieties. The newer Bermuda strains are easy to establish, can be patched with seed and can be over seeded with annual rye for year round color in the summer climates.Easy to keep weed free. Bermuda's bad rap needs to be laid to rest. Good luck with the wedding plans. The lawn was a piece of cake compared to those.:usflag:

Nice pool BTW.

Patriot Services
08-02-2011, 10:12 AM
My question is: How can a spring seeding work at all!??!!!? Doesn't that just grow weeds? shouldn't you have pre-m out as soon as things start to green??!!? :)

Bermuda is one of those grasses that will germinate from April to September down here. Heat, water and fert just makes it expolde. I mow my personal yard 3 times a week right now. It rains and grows an inch in a day. Bermuda is almost self weeding when its healthy and cut to proper height. Weeds dont like the short and frequent cutting requirements.:usflag:

avguy
08-02-2011, 10:53 AM
Patriot thanks for the comments! Wedding was 2 years ago & went great!
My 1st preference was a cool season blue grass mix but after the drought like conditions we've had the past couple of years I'm ecstatic that I switched to the Bermuda instead. Like you, I feed my 2 acres monthly & cut every 3 days....if I wait 4 days it's almost too much to cut. I used Sunstar Bermuda seed which is considered a medium grade seed but it really looks good. Absolutely could not have done it with out the help of many on this board.

dahammer
08-02-2011, 08:05 PM
Lol....it wasn't too much for the little tractor, it was too much for little me :laugh: I'd already brought in top soil, tilled and then drug a 14k sqft area in the front previously. I knew how much work that was which is why I took a different route for the back & brought in the skid steer. I spent several days working on the front & knocked out the back in one day.

Have you had a soil test done? If not you should. My soil was very very poor & I spent a couple years amending the soil before I even tried to seed.

Yes, I got a soil sample, which called for a tremendous amount of lime. I had a guy come and put lime out with a truck that fall, then I planted it the following summer. What I should have done was kept working on the soil until I got it right, but all I had was winter grass so I had to do something quick.

avguy
08-02-2011, 08:25 PM
Yes, I got a soil sample, which called for a tremendous amount of lime. I had a guy come and put lime out with a truck that fall, then I planted it the following summer. What I should have done was kept working on the soil until I got it right, but all I had was winter grass so I had to do something quick.

I was told by my extension office that it takes a couple of years for the lime to work it's way into the soil. Over a 1 year period I put down 300 bags of lime on my 2 acres. What I've discovered is that getting the soil right is 95% of the battle. I've also realized there are no quick fixes, at least for me. I'm going to get a soil sample here again pretty soon to see where I'm at. I'd be willing to bet I'm going to need more lime. We'll see.

Stay after it though......may take a couple of years but it'll be worth it in the end.

grassman177
09-12-2011, 05:14 PM
dude, super nice job.

avguy
09-12-2011, 05:51 PM
Thanks Grassman!.... but the credit really goes to all the professional people here on lawnsite.

1999frontier
09-13-2011, 09:06 AM
Awesome work!! I've been trying to decide whether or not to keep trying fescue or go with bermuda since I've got a few patches now. What height are you cutting your bermuda? If I decide on bermuda I think I may seed some annual ryegrass for this winter until I can seed bermuda in the spring.

avguy
09-13-2011, 12:19 PM
Awesome work!! I've been trying to decide whether or not to keep trying fescue or go with bermuda since I've got a few patches now. What height are you cutting your bermuda? If I decide on bermuda I think I may seed some annual ryegrass for this winter until I can seed bermuda in the spring.

I'm no expert, but your weather over there in NC is pretty much the same as ours is here in East Tennessee.......hot & dry. Before I started my renovation my intention was to replace the bermuda/weed mix I had for some type of cool season grass but after some contemplation ( and watching the existing pretty much die from lack of irrigation) I decided on the bermuda.....and boy am I glad I did. We got .2 inches of rain here the entire months of July & August. I watched pretty much most of the lawns in my area just wither up & die. My lawn was so green my neighbor asked if I was watering.

I started out the season cutting at 2" & slowly raised the height to about 3 1/2. I fed it every month & cut every 3 days. Sometimes my work schedule wouldn't allow me to cut when I needed so I would raise the deck up so I wasn't cutting more than a 1/3 of the blade.

1999frontier
09-13-2011, 01:51 PM
I don't have irrigation either, I have to drag the hoses out to water. I got slack on watering this year and I can really tell it in the fescue. Do you think it would hurt if I put some annual ryegrass out this fall and then mow it short in April and seed with bermuda in May?

wolfy
10-30-2012, 04:19 PM
AVguy, this is great! I im in the Kansas City area, and am looking to do this on the back part of my acre lot as well.

So just to verify you got your seed at Lesco, which is part of john deere landscape right? There is a place here that I can get La Prima Bermuda, but its like 20 bucks a pound. I get roughly half off due to landscape company.

Anyway I was just wondering how you are continuing to like your choice in seed? If you have any updated pics that would be appreciated.

Thanks again for this thread, its been very helpful thus far!!!

avguy
10-31-2012, 07:13 AM
AVguy, this is great! I im in the Kansas City area, and am looking to do this on the back part of my acre lot as well.

So just to verify you got your seed at Lesco, which is part of john deere landscape right? There is a place here that I can get La Prima Bermuda, but its like 20 bucks a pound. I get roughly half off due to landscape company.

Anyway I was just wondering how you are continuing to like your choice in seed? If you have any updated pics that would be appreciated.

Thanks again for this thread, its been very helpful thus far!!!

I bought Sunstar bermuda from my local JD/Lesco. It is a medium grade seed. If you look back toward the beginning of this thread you'll see some of the seed recommendations from the pros here. The Sunstar was a good choice for my needs but had I been renovating say a 1/4 or 1/2 acre lot in a subdivision I might have opted for a finer blade seed like a Yukon.

Another thing to keep in mind is the continuing costs associated with trying to maintain a large area like this. I live in the country surrounded by farm land. Where I live people don't have "lawns" lol.....they have "yards"....you know.....where you park your cars and throw stuff that came from your house. I have absolutely the best neighbors anyone could ever ask for but they look at me and my lawn just like Kevin Cosner's neighbors looked at him when he plowed his corn under in Field of Dreams....lol. I probably spend between $1000 - $1500 / year in maintenance. Good luck!

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/frontlawn.jpg

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/DSC_0245.jpg

wolfy
10-31-2012, 09:39 AM
I bought Sunstar bermuda from my local JD/Lesco. It is a medium grade seed. If you look back toward the beginning of this thread you'll see some of the seed recommendations from the pros here. The Sunstar was a good choice for my needs but had I been renovating say a 1/4 or 1/2 acre lot in a subdivision I might have opted for a finer blade seed like a Yukon.

Another thing to keep in mind is the continuing costs associated with trying to maintain a large area like this. I live in the country surrounded by farm land. Where I live people don't have "lawns" lol.....they have "yards"....you know.....where you park your cars and throw stuff that came from your house. I have absolutely the best neighbors anyone could ever ask for but they look at me and my lawn just like Kevin Cosner's neighbors looked at him when he plowed his corn under in Field of Dreams....lol. I probably spend between $1000 - $1500 / year in maintenance. Good luck!

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/frontlawn.jpg

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m171/avguywife/DSC_0245.jpg

I do like the looks of that for sure!!! I totally understand. I have an acre lot, so not near as big as yours! Thanks for the follow up on your seed choice. I will for sure go over to the JD store around the corner and see what they have this late spring! Just wanting to get my ducks in a row now;)

I love mowing and having a nice yard. Its great! Now with the acre, and no irrigation system, its impossible for me to keep enough water on it in the summer to keep it alive let alone green. So I am going to seed the bermuda along the side yard first to see what I think.

Thanks again for your help on this thread! Fantastic help, as this is almost exactly what I will be doing. And like you said a while ago, the prep work is the biggest! Soil samples and tilling and ......

Thanks again!!!

chefcam864
06-07-2014, 11:23 PM
I know this an old thread, but I just had to compliment AVguy on his lawn! You did it right, and the results really show. I'm seeding 7,500 Sqft on Monday with SunSport, and was just cruising posts to look for ideas/advice. I sprayed the area twice with Gly to kill most of the vegetation. I had a buddy bring over his little Yanmar and tiller today, and we got it tilled. The soil is black, and looks great! It's kind of odd considering the red clay we're known for. I had a soil test and it was slightly acidic, but not as much as I would have expected. I hope mine turns out as well as yours! you did a jam-up job on that!

It's really funny reading some of the posts from guys from up north, as they really don't have a clue about these grasses. From the sounds of it, they think you seed everything just like it was Fescue or KBG. I'm not trying to talk smack either. Obviously, Bermuda is not something those guys would grow up there, and as such, I wouldn't really expect them to know why we plant warm season turf in late spring.

avguy
06-08-2014, 12:32 AM
I'm glad you found this thread helpful. There are many ways to renovate a lawn and this is just how I did mine. I hope your results are what you are looking for.

I'm actually getting ready to top dress a large portion of the back lawn with river sand in the next month or so. I'll add some pics of that as well.

I appreciate your comments and good luck with your project!

chefcam864
06-10-2014, 01:09 AM
I'm glad you found this thread helpful. There are many ways to renovate a lawn and this is just how I did mine. I hope your results are what you are looking for.

I'm actually getting ready to top dress a large portion of the back lawn with river sand in the next month or so. I'll add some pics of that as well.

I appreciate your comments and good luck with your project!

Avguy, I meant to ask you what setting you used on your lesco spreader for the seed? Did you mix with sand both times? If not, do you think the sand made a noticeable difference?
Thanks, chef
Posted via Mobile Device

greendoctor
06-10-2014, 01:55 AM
I'm glad you found this thread helpful. There are many ways to renovate a lawn and this is just how I did mine. I hope your results are what you are looking for.

I'm actually getting ready to top dress a large portion of the back lawn with river sand in the next month or so. I'll add some pics of that as well.

I appreciate your comments and good luck with your project!

Once you get your topdressing done and the sand has settled in, it is time for a gang reel. Those mowers do a good job on common bermuda at 1" HOC.

avguy
06-10-2014, 06:03 AM
Chef I'm sorry I do not remember the setting I used. The Bermuda seed is very small so I mixed it about 3 to 1 with play sand. Make sure the sand you use is dry and will flow freely through the spreader. Start out with a smaller setting and adjust as you go. I went both ways on my lawn.

Greendoctor I would love to have a nice gang reel to use but I have some pretty good swails up closer to the house and I'm not sure how it would handle those? Right now I mow it at 2" with an Exmark walk behind always keeping the blades razor sharp.

greendoctor
06-10-2014, 06:18 AM
Gang reels are usually on an independent frame where each 21" reel is able to follow the ground.

avguy
06-10-2014, 03:32 PM
Any recommendations on a gang reel manufacturer?

chefcam864
06-10-2014, 11:08 PM
Forget the gang reel. This is where it's at!
http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t488/chefcam81/Mobile%20Uploads/F42742C0-BAAB-41E2-AC87-71E07A4A12F5.png (http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/chefcam81/media/Mobile%20Uploads/F42742C0-BAAB-41E2-AC87-71E07A4A12F5.png.html)

If you have untold thousands to spend, that is....
Posted via Mobile Device

greendoctor
06-11-2014, 03:29 AM
Back to reality. I like the 6 blade Pro-Mow. Simple and an affordable entry level reel for large areas. The quality of cut is nice at 1" as well. Does not work very well under 1". After that, there are the Toro pull behind gang reels for fairways. $$$$$$$$$$$. If I had to mow over a half acre, I would be looking at the triplex trim mowers and buying a unit being retired from golf course or sports field use. Not as bad as buying brand new.

avguy
06-12-2014, 01:43 PM
I have 32 tons of sand being delivered in the morning. My plan was to aerate before spreading the sand. Does anyone know if the aeration is an unnecessary step?

greendoctor
06-12-2014, 02:31 PM
Has the lawn been used as a football field? Parking lot on a daily basis? Otherwise no. Sand it, get it level and reel cut it.

avguy
06-12-2014, 03:14 PM
Thanks Greendoctor.....