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grassyfras
06-23-2009, 01:35 AM
I'm trying to figure out a rough idea of my material costs per 1,000 sqft for a five step program. I think my program will cost about $100 per 5,000 sqft not including broad leaf or crabgrass control. The program includes crabgrass control and grub control. What does it costs most smaller guys per 1000? Do you try to keep material below 25% of what you charge your customer? This is for next year when I'm licensed.

VARMIT COMMISSION
06-23-2009, 09:18 AM
not including broad leaf or crabgrass control. The program includes crabgrass control and grub control.


Your program doesnt include then it does include crabgrass control! Does it or doesnt it?

$100.00 for 5000 sq ft would be $20.00 per 1000 correct? That is way off.
Get your cost for each item you will apply and break it down to cost per 1000/ sq ft.
Example: 3-way cost $55.00 per 2 1/2 gallons. 2 quarts an acre
cost me $11.00 an acre or .26 /1000 if you use max rate.
Do this for each item you will use and know you will be using different products each round. Each round will cost different.
Round #1 is atleast twice the cost of round #5

Josh.S
06-23-2009, 10:43 AM
not including broad leaf or crabgrass control. The program includes crabgrass control and grub control.


Your program doesnt include then it does include crabgrass control! Does it or doesnt it?

$100.00 for 5000 sq ft would be $20.00 per 1000 correct? That is way off.
Get your cost for each item you will apply and break it down to cost per 1000/ sq ft.
Example: 3-way cost $55.00 per 2 1/2 gallons. 2 quarts an acre
cost me $11.00 an acre or .26 /1000 if you use max rate.
Do this for each item you will use and know you will be using different products each round. Each round will cost different.
Round #1 is atleast twice the cost of round #5


I agree with him.

Also, a "standard" program will normally include crabgrass and broadleaf control while grub control is probably an option.

Like stated above, you need to figure your cost per round. Because Pre-M herbicide w/ fert is way more expensive than winterizer.

As a rought estimate depending your average cost will be $.75-1.50 per 1000 feet. I know that is a wide spread but it depends on what products you get, where you get them, volume, ect.

grassyfras
06-23-2009, 04:06 PM
Ok here’s my plan for next year, Sorry for being un clear the first time. I broke down most my numbers like suggested. Grub control will not be included. I need to know if this plan is crazy or what.

5- Step

March 15-30th 7-0-22 with.15 dimension Material Cost- $3.61 per K

May 1st –August 30th 5-4-0 Auxinite (similar to ironite) Material Cost- 2.4 per K


September 1 18-0-9 with 2% iron-Material Cost- $1.7

October 1 18-0-9 with 2% iron-Material Cost- $1.7

November 15th 40-0-0 100% slow release- Material Cost $2.4

Total Per K= $11.81

Weed control will be done with a back pack spot spaying. I plan on using a three-way, Drive 75 and Manage. I plan on using a gallon or less of herbicide per 5,000 sqft. I’m estimating that on average a gallon will cost less than $5 of material.

Josh.S
06-23-2009, 04:49 PM
March 15-30th 7-0-22 with.15 dimension Material Cost- $3.61 per K

Why are you putting down so much potash? For dimension or barricade your product cost should only be 1-1.5 per k. Ours was $1.30 per k for 13-0-0 .28 barricade this spring.

May 1st –August 30th 5-4-0 Auxinite (similar to ironite) Material Cost- 2.4 per K

Seems like you would want to get a slow release. I just got a quote from a supplier and for 25-0-5 w/ 51% MESA a bag is $16. If you are applying .75 lb/k of n your cost per k is $0.96. And MESA is generally considered high end, especially when compared to SCU. I'm not familiar with the product you are referring to though...

September 1 18-0-9 with 2% iron-Material Cost- $1.7

Even with slow release and the iron you should be able to get it for under $1 per k.

October 1 18-0-9 with 2% iron-Material Cost- $1.7

November 15th 40-0-0 100% slow release- Material Cost $2.4

A lot of people go all mineral (no slow release) with their winter round and you can get costs down to $.75 per k. I think it is a waist of money to buy 100% slow.



Are you getting single bag prices from Lesco or something?

grassyfras
06-23-2009, 04:59 PM
My prices are from a independent dealer for single bag prices. I guess I should ask him what the discount is for when I buy more. It sounds like my prices are still really high.

Rayholio
06-23-2009, 05:11 PM
You need to find a distrubuter like lesco, or BWI.. I find that my AVERAGE cost on MATERIALS ONLY is around $2.00 per k.. that price is designed to be just a bit high.. as prices sometimes rise thruout the year.

phasthound
06-23-2009, 07:13 PM
May 1st –August 30th 5-4-0 Auxinite (similar to ironite) Material Cost- 2.4 per K

Aux-n-ite is a very slow release biosolid that will also add enzymes and other valuable organic substances known to make plants hardier with better heat and drought tolerance.

Think Green
06-23-2009, 09:39 PM
Grassy,
If you are able to get $20 per K, then I am moving to St. Louis!!
What I have done for our 5 step program is distinguish what we plan to use throughout the season to control the weeds. Then add in the fertilizer for the season!
It is correct to say that your cost per K is a bit too costly and can get it in bulk or smaller containers for less.........I do!! I figure out how much for the entire season will cost and divide it out in 5 bangs. That way our bills are consistant to the customer.
If grub control is wanted as part of your program, then figure that cost into the total equation also.
IF I charged the custome for round-1 XX amount of dollars and then charge XX for round-2, it will seem odd unless the customer knows this up front.. Why would they expect to pay more.? Figure it evenly!!
When a customer calls for 5 steps, I figure out my cost for the whole season and do the markups--travel--fuel--labor--water,etc. Then divide that cost by 5. Our first 2 rounds cost us a little more, but then it all equals out....
If the customer has more problems such as insect's, they call us to do this application and it is an add-on, billed right then. But to say that the casual cost of 2.00 per K is somewhat accurate depending on locale and each product you use. Then what is your markup? Your overhead will and may be significantly larger than someone else's. But around here all the lco's use the same thing and some different fertilizers. The cost per customer K has been set........it all depends on how fast you can get an acre done in an hour.

rcreech
06-23-2009, 09:46 PM
Where is the N in your program?

Why are you using a 100% slow release going into winter?

Maybe I am way off...as I don't know your turf or weather but that program sounds very different then anything I have ever heard!

You need to feed the turf and I don't see much N up front or much along the way.

Is this a typical program in that area or did you come up with it yourself?

grassyfras
06-23-2009, 10:53 PM
The fertilizer dealer came up with it. I have used it on my lawn this year and so far it looks good. I never really drilled him on the reasons for using the formulas he uses except that he thinks the aux-in-ite is the best thing for the soil. The guy seems knowledgeable and also teaches some at the local college. I'm still learning this stuff so if you anyone in my area can give me adivce on their program I'm more than willing to listen.


I called Scotts to get a quote on my lawn. They wanted about $72.00 an application to treat about 12,000-15,000 sq ft and that's doing 7 applications a year. They also wanted $425 to aerate and seed the lawn. I thought this was high. Anyone think so?

Think Green
06-23-2009, 11:20 PM
Quote---"They wanted about $72.00 an application to treat about 12,000-15,000 sq ft and that's doing 7 applications a year. "

That sounds about right for our area...... 6.00 per K.
TGCL did an over the phone bid with me on my rental lawn of 8,000 sq.ft. and they quoted 7 apps at 4.00 per K on the first app, and the remainder apps would be 5.00.
Generally, that is what we are getting!!!!! Like I said--or should have said--It all depends on what you put in the tank,how much, and how fast you can get it down.
Doing the work with a backpack sprayer is totally killer........you won't do it for very long unless your lawns are 5,000 and under!!!! Seriously!
As far as aerating and seeding, it all depends of seed availability and prices.

Turf Tech
06-26-2009, 11:26 PM
Man you guys are cheap. I get 10.20 per 1000 for pre and post applications add liquid fert that is another 3.00 per k. I get 6.39 per k just for the app on any yard up to 15k then I start to come down on price. At 4.00 per k I would go broke. Chemical cost for me is for pre/post product is 3.80 per k.
That is buying product in 15g and 35g drums. I just purchased a tote of 330 gallons of fertilizer that cost me 5.50 per k. So you guys have some special hook up on product. I buy from a very large supplier but I do use name brand products. Pre Emergent I use Pendelum Pen Aqua, Trimec Southern, Trimec Plus, Speedzone and MSMA.

VARMIT COMMISSION
06-27-2009, 12:07 AM
I just purchased a tote of 330 gallons of fertilizer that cost me 5.50 per k.



WOW! My fertilizer cost per k is only a dollar. And that is the good stuff! But--that is granular. Your liquid.

Think Green
06-27-2009, 12:28 AM
Turftech,
It is all about the source!!!!!
It is easier because we are in a agricultural mega-district.!!

I am getting Trimec 992--Pendi--Target6--ferts, locally at large farm suppliers.
Their profit margins are really low, but they are funnelling out drum after drum to all the farmers. If I had to buy it outright from a far off source, it would cost all of us Local LCO's an arm and a leg. 6.35-7.00 per K is fair in the middle to ours. I am using ag. grade ferts on grass.........slow release N........Iron.......Sulfur!! Our grasses are greener than frog turds and thick.

bug-guy
06-27-2009, 10:25 AM
turf tech where are you located?
here the price per k is going near 10-12 mark (6 to 7 apps a yr)
the guy's getting 6 per k do nothing but complain about prices but they sign up new cust. all day long.
i tried to tell them that if they go on 5 est. and sign them all up... they are way to cheap, they are not that good of a sales person

alot have gone to monthly treatments(remember this is fla.,not ohio) the cost per k is not as high on these and include lawn, ornamental(beds included) with broadleaf and sedge control.(grubs aren't that big of an issue here). on several apps only backbacks and some onamental fert are needed. these guy's usually have a sound agronomic plan and have little problems in their lawns.

rcreech
06-27-2009, 10:56 AM
Man you guys are cheap.

Who says we are cheap?

I can charge half of what you do and make 50% more at with your product costs.

It is all about your costs and overhead.

You need to shop around and get better prices.

My product cost is right around $1.12/k. That is both liquid weed control and a 30-0-10 with 50% SCU.

Good luck with your pricing structure! :laugh:

YardBoss Lawncare
06-27-2009, 11:28 AM
Step 1: Pre-emergent and Post-emergent
Step 2: Granular fertilizer (36-0-0)
Step 3: Granular fertilizer (36-0-0)
Step 4: Granular fertilizer (36-0-0)
Step 5: Winterizer

I start my programs around the end of March and space them about 5 weeks apart. I only sell them to my regular clients. When i'm there mowing every week, I use the backpack sprayer to spot spray stubborn weeds in the lawn that the blanket app of Step 1 didn't cover. I also use the backpack to wipe out anything that comes up thru graveled areas, cracks in the sidewalk, etc.
As far as pricing, I measure the areas that the applications are going to cover. I have a price per 1000 sq ft. I also have a minimum base charge. However many 1000 sq ft X my price per 1000. Then I add that number to my minimum base charge.

RigglePLC
06-27-2009, 03:44 PM
Grassfrass,
I hate to mention this--but--about 1980 when I worked at truFreen we tried to keep our chemical cost below 20 percent of the price. If we charged 50 dollars, our product cost was supposed to be about $10. In fact, one year the cost came in at the end of the year, at about 18 percent of sales.

If you think like them, if you charge $4 per thousand, your average chemical cost would be about 80 cents per thousand. Shop around--let other dealers work for your business. Squeeze out a discount. You may have to pay little more for your crabgrass control, but you can balance that with cheaper fertilizers later on. These days try to hit about 25 to 30 percent chemical cost.

Weed control should cost you less than 35 cents per thousand. If you are spot spraying weeds, you only use about one-tenth gallon per thousand--so the cost is less than 4 cents per thousand. Actually the time and labor involved is far higher than the weed control chemical.

Turf Tech
06-27-2009, 05:50 PM
Who says we are cheap?

I can charge half of what you do and make 50% more at with your product costs.

It is all about your costs and overhead.

You need to shop around and get better prices.

My product cost is right around $1.12/k. That is both liquid weed control and a 30-0-10 with 50% SCU.

Good luck with your pricing structure! :laugh:

Rcreech where are you buying fertilizer with 50% SCU for that cheap all. I looked all over the state and cant find anything close to that price liquid or granualar. Unless I buy an 18 wheeler load.

Since I live in Texas there is alot of chemical farm supplie places within 15miles of me. Problem is alot of the products are labeled for farm use only and not for residential applications. Our local TDA inspector checks my records 6 times a year. He is very particluar on not straying from a label or he will nail you. I would love to get my prices down but haven't had much luck. The main supplier here is my best friend from high school and is cutting me a good deal. I have seen what he is paying from BWI and he is only charging me a small markup.

Example I pay 835.00 dollars for 15 gal of Pendelum. I use 3.2 oz per 1k which is the high rate but I get excellent results that comes out to 1.39 per k. Trimec Plus cost me 1.90 per k buying in 30gal. Fert is 2.56 per/k for liquid with 50% slow release. I purchased some Lesco 3 way last year for .18c per/k but I got really crappy results and had to go back a spray with Speedzone.

I guess I am high on my prices but I have all the work I can do for now. Once I get my z spray I might come down on my prices so I an pickup more clients. I currently spray about 1M sq/ft per round which keeps me busy as a part time job.

rcreech
06-27-2009, 06:08 PM
Rcreech where are you buying fertilizer with 50% SCU for that cheap all. I looked all over the state and cant find anything close to that price liquid or granualar. Unless I buy an 18 wheeler load.

Since I live in Texas there is alot of chemical farm supplie places within 15miles of me. Problem is alot of the products are labeled for farm use only and not for residential applications. Our local TDA inspector checks my records 6 times a year. He is very particluar on not straying from a label or he will nail you. I would love to get my prices down but haven't had much luck. The main supplier here is my best friend from high school and is cutting me a good deal. I have seen what he is paying from BWI and he is only charging me a small markup.

Example I pay 835.00 dollars for 15 gal of Pendelum. I use 3.2 oz per 1k which is the high rate but I get excellent results that comes out to 1.39 per k. Trimec Plus cost me 1.90 per k buying in 30gal. Fert is 2.56 per/k for liquid with 50% slow release. I purchased some Lesco 3 way last year for .18c per/k but I got really crappy results and had to go back a spray with Speedzone.

I guess I am high on my prices but I have all the work I can do for now. Once I get my z spray I might come down on my prices so I an pickup more clients. I currently spray about 1M sq/ft per round which keeps me busy as a part time job.

I usually do buy several truck loads at a time...but even if I didn't...30-0-10 50% SCU is right at $1.00/k buying it 1 pallet at a time.

With Threeway that would put me at $1.22 at today's current prices.

It would pay to to travel and buy cheaper.

If you buy enough...I could deliver to you and we could both make a lot of money! :cool2:

GreenmanCT
06-27-2009, 07:25 PM
I usually do $10/1000, and after 10K i knock it down to $5/1000....but alot of time i do it at cost if theyre a mowing customer so i can make sure there is grass to cut everyweek.

Turf Tech
06-27-2009, 07:42 PM
I usually do $10/1000, and after 10K i knock it down to $5/1000....but alot of time i do it at cost if theyre a mowing customer so i can make sure there is grass to cut everyweek.

I dont do any mowing just fertilizer and weed control. I use to do the mowing but got tired of it after 10 years. I sold it all off and started doing applications.

Josh.S
06-28-2009, 04:03 AM
Rcreech where are you buying fertilizer with 50% SCU for that cheap all. I looked all over the state and cant find anything close to that price liquid or granualar. Unless I buy an 18 wheeler load.

Since I live in Texas there is alot of chemical farm supplie places within 15miles of me. Problem is alot of the products are labeled for farm use only and not for residential applications. Our local TDA inspector checks my records 6 times a year. He is very particluar on not straying from a label or he will nail you. I would love to get my prices down but haven't had much luck. The main supplier here is my best friend from high school and is cutting me a good deal. I have seen what he is paying from BWI and he is only charging me a small markup.

Example I pay 835.00 dollars for 15 gal of Pendelum. I use 3.2 oz per 1k which is the high rate but I get excellent results that comes out to 1.39 per k. Trimec Plus cost me 1.90 per k buying in 30gal. Fert is 2.56 per/k for liquid with 50% slow release. I purchased some Lesco 3 way last year for .18c per/k but I got really crappy results and had to go back a spray with Speedzone.

I guess I am high on my prices but I have all the work I can do for now. Once I get my z spray I might come down on my prices so I an pickup more clients. I currently spray about 1M sq/ft per round which keeps me busy as a part time job.

Just to give you an idea of what others are paying, I paid 16 per bag for 32-3-6 50% XRT. This is at single pallet prices from Advanced Turf Solutions. Applied at 3lb per 1k your cost would be $0.96. Remember this is for premium product (not SCU) and applied at just under a full 1lb of N per k. If you applied .75 lb of N per k your cost would be $0.73

Weed control I buy Escalade 2 (which has dicamba) for around 50 per gallon. Applied at .8 oz per gallon (label rate is .7-1.1), which yields good results, costs around $.32 per k.

So for a premium slow release product and weed killer my cost per k would be $1.28 for 1lb of N and $1.05 for .75lb of N.

colombomt
06-28-2009, 09:42 AM
$3.50 Comm
$4.00 Res

rcreech
06-28-2009, 01:28 PM
Remember this is for premium product (not SCU) and applied at just under a full 1lb of N per k. If you applied .75 lb of N per k your cost would be $0.73



Josh,

What does that mean? I can see you saying that XRT is premium product over all mineral but not SCU.

I think you are listening to the saleman too much. :laugh: I have never used XRT but would question you saying the XRT is premium product compared to an SCU.

An 8-10 week feeding is an 8-10 week feeding. The coating may be a little different but green grass is what they both yield!

Actually it is a PPSCU and is an awesome product, providing excellent results.

Just wanted to clarify!

Turf Tech
06-28-2009, 09:50 PM
All of the products that you all are listing are basic 24d product. Nothing with MSMA. Main problem we get here in Bermuda yards is Johnson Grass and Dallis grass. So I need a good broadleaf with MSMA or I have to use a 24d and mix MSMA with it which pretty much makes the cost even.

VARMIT COMMISSION
06-28-2009, 11:45 PM
MSMA and Certainty mixed together is what I use for Johnson Grass. MSMA will take control of quite a few broadleafs too. IMHO 24d and MSMA mixed together and sprayed in our temps. will fry bermuda right now. You would have to back way off the application rate of 24d. And MSMA is discontinued to use past Dec. of 2010. No replacement for it yet here. Even if there is broadleafs around MSMA will burn them down and buy's you time to wait for fall for that 3-way application.

Josh.S
06-29-2009, 02:31 AM
Josh,

What does that mean? I can see you saying that XRT is premium product over all mineral but not SCU.

I think you are listening to the saleman too much. :laugh: I have never used XRT but would question you saying the XRT is premium product compared to an SCU.

An 8-10 week feeding is an 8-10 week feeding. The coating may be a little different but green grass is what they both yield!

Actually it is a PPSCU and is an awesome product, providing excellent results.

Just wanted to clarify!

Well I guess from my understanding XRT is better than SCU. I should not have stated it that way. I stand corrected. :laugh: