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View Full Version : Getting away from Scotts


kirk1701
06-23-2009, 10:55 AM
Been using Scott's fert for years, from reading here I don't see any of you using it in fact a lot of you don't even recommend it being too high in N and not only that you all say there are other brans out there that are cheaper.

Here's what I need to know, I want to set up a program starting now, another brand but I don't know where to get it? Most of you have mentioned Lesco however I don't have a Lesco close to me. I could travel 35 miles to one IF and only IF it becomes a "no alternative" because of disability I don't drive otherwise it would not be a problem.

I have a Southern States which is local and not "out of the way" so looking to start there but since I'm researching now for probably end of July treatment I got plenty of time.

What you guys recommend I start with. Something close to the Scott's sumer rizer, I definitely need something to control weeds plus a grub control.

recliner5
06-23-2009, 01:41 PM
I just got 5 bags of Milorganite, I'll try it.

drugrep
06-23-2009, 03:34 PM
What I like about Scott's is what they say in their new commercials.

Each granual has NPK in it. It is very even. Other brands are just mixed together.

If you like Synthetics, and I do, I think Scott's is best.

(Fertilome might be same way and I would then say same thing about them.)

Kylec3
06-23-2009, 03:47 PM
just made the transition from scotts to lesco this past year as i got my pesticide license and all....im noticed a lot of improvment using lesco on my lawns that are somewhat shaded or very shady....the scotts just has way too much nitrogen..but the lawns that are in direct sunlight arent nearly as green as when i was using scotts....may not be as green but my lawns have def been healthier and thicker

kirk1701
06-23-2009, 05:27 PM
just made the transition from scotts to lesco this past year as i got my pesticide license and all....im noticed a lot of improvment using lesco on my lawns that are somewhat shaded or very shady....the scotts just has way too much nitrogen..but the lawns that are in direct sunlight arent nearly as green as when i was using scotts....may not be as green but my lawns have def been healthier and thicker

We'll see your hitting the nail directly on the head my friend. I should take a pic of the front now and compare it to some of the pics in some of my other threads. Though I'm not concerned, the area that is in full sun all day just looks brownish but the same front lawn that gets partly shade still looks awsome. Were getting pleanty of rain but temps are in the 90's for the last week so some browning this time of year could be expected, just think its time to get away from scotts.

recliner5
06-23-2009, 05:47 PM
hey whats wrong with milorganite?

lawnproslawncare
06-23-2009, 06:08 PM
Milorganite works great, just a lot of product per 1000 sqft to walk out.

Look into u-maxx and u-flexx from spring valley. Awesome product!

david shumaker
06-23-2009, 10:03 PM
I don't buy in bulk, so I just go to Walmart and buy their brand. It's cheaper than Scott's and I think it says on the bag that it's made by Scott's. Think I paid about $28.00 for 15,000 Sq. Ft. bag.

quiet
06-23-2009, 10:45 PM
Nitrogen is usually applied at a rate of 1 lb. per 1000 square feet, so the people who say Scotts has too much N are not informed. It's your application RATE that determines how much N is being put down.

Your SOURCES of N and the additional macro and then micro nutrients, and their sources determine the QUALITY of the product. And that QUALITY of the product needs to be detemrined by the nutritional needs of your particular turfgrass, and your soil composition.

Fertilization is a very complex subject. Start by reading the recommendations from your local county extension service. Then familiarize yourself with the different SOURCES of products . . . and you'll have only started to scratch the surface!

LushGreenLawn
06-23-2009, 10:55 PM
Nitrogen is usually applied at a rate of 1 lb. per 1000 square feet, so the people who say Scotts has too much N are not informed. It's your application RATE that determines how much N is being put down.

Your SOURCES of N and the additional macro and then micro nutrients, and their sources determine the QUALITY of the product. And that QUALITY of the product needs to be detemrined by the nutritional needs of your particular turfgrass, and your soil composition.

Fertilization is a very complex subject. Start by reading the recommendations from your local county extension service. Then familiarize yourself with the different SOURCES of products . . . and you'll have only started to scratch the surface!

I was going to post somethng similer to this. You beat me to it. I don't understand how you can start a fertilizing business without even a basic understanding of fertilizer. I spend alot of time educating people on the correct way of doing things, after they got bad information from someone claiming to know what they were talking about because they wanted to make a quick buck. If you want to get into a business to make a quick buck, go mow some grass, but learn a little bit before you get into fert and weed control.

Whitey4
06-23-2009, 11:17 PM
Nitrogen is usually applied at a rate of 1 lb. per 1000 square feet, so the people who say Scotts has too much N are not informed. It's your application RATE that determines how much N is being put down.

Your SOURCES of N and the additional macro and then micro nutrients, and their sources determine the QUALITY of the product. And that QUALITY of the product needs to be detemrined by the nutritional needs of your particular turfgrass, and your soil composition.

Fertilization is a very complex subject. Start by reading the recommendations from your local county extension service. Then familiarize yourself with the different SOURCES of products . . . and you'll have only started to scratch the surface!


Not informed? I think not.

In the Scotts so called "4 step" program, the first 3 are combonation products. That means there is an active ingredient... like crab graas preventer (pendimethelin) in step one, weed and feed in step two, and inscect control in step 3. In order to apply these AI's at the rate required for them to work, one must put down far too much nitrogen. A typical 31-0-4 is FAR too much N in their combo product formulations.

Now, the "step 4" is a straight fert... no AI, not a combo product. It is an outstanding fertilizer, IF the recommended aplication rate is cut in half. It won't burn even if over applied in July. It is a preety fool proof DIY fert, and very good.... just don't apply it at the rates they recommend.

Sure, soil analysis and all that stuff is great, but few customers are willing to pay for that science.... they want green, and they want it for cheap. Nothing wrong with regular Scotts straight fert... it's some os the best stuff a home owner can buy. As for me, it's Lebanon mesa with iron. Stuff will burn if the applicatoir gets sloppy however....

EVM
06-23-2009, 11:57 PM
If you want to get into a business to make a quick buck, go mow some grass, but learn a little bit before you get into fert and weed control.


That water and sun rules all, that is all you need to know.

kirk1701
06-24-2009, 12:41 AM
Not informed? I think not.

In the Scotts so called "4 step" program, the first 3 are combonation products. That means there is an active ingredient... like crab graas preventer (pendimethelin) in step one, weed and feed in step two, and inscect control in step 3. In order to apply these AI's at the rate required for them to work, one must put down far too much nitrogen. A typical 31-0-4 is FAR too much N in their combo product formulations.

Now, the "step 4" is a straight fert... no AI, not a combo product. It is an outstanding fertilizer, IF the recommended aplication rate is cut in half. It won't burn even if over applied in July. It is a preety fool proof DIY fert, and very good.... just don't apply it at the rates they recommend.

Sure, soil analysis and all that stuff is great, but few customers are willing to pay for that science.... they want green, and they want it for cheap. Nothing wrong with regular Scotts straight fert... it's some os the best stuff a home owner can buy. As for me, it's Lebanon mesa with iron. Stuff will burn if the applicatoir gets sloppy however....

Your putting it pretty much into the context I was thinking so I guess I'm on the right path or at least thinking on the same line.

In the 3rd step which is the summer rizer ip put down as recomended thats too much N but at the same time if put down lighter then less N but also less inscect control which now won't be enough put down because it being a combo product am I thinking right?

Thats why I said in the original post I want to start with a summer application of something, also a application for insects and grub but your also hitting another note here. Stuff will burn if the applicatoir gets sloppy I'm not sloppy but I do only have a scotts spreader, and overlap just a bit and now should I be paranoid of burning if I move away from scotts?

Whitey4
06-24-2009, 06:24 PM
Your putting it pretty much into the context I was thinking so I guess I'm on the right path or at least thinking on the same line.

In the 3rd step which is the summer rizer ip put down as recomended thats too much N but at the same time if put down lighter then less N but also less inscect control which now won't be enough put down because it being a combo product am I thinking right?

Thats why I said in the original post I want to start with a summer application of something, also a application for insects and grub but your also hitting another note here. Stuff will burn if the applicatoir gets sloppy I'm not sloppy but I do only have a scotts spreader, and overlap just a bit and now should I be paranoid of burning if I move away from scotts?

Scotts goes to great lenghts to ensure their stuff is as foolproof as possible because it is getting applied by people who don't know how to calibrate or use a spreader. Pro products like Lebanon must be applied properly, or they can burn. Scotts spreaders are made for Scotts products. They spread unevenly but that is fine for their ferts... not for pro ferts. For pro products, you need a pro's spreader, and know how to use it safely (burn) ... it isn't rocket scince, but for instance.... if you don't close the chute on a Scotts spreader, it sort of clogs.... do that with an Earthway spreader and Lebanon fert, it will lay a load of fert down when you turn, and burn the crap out of the lawn.

As far as the Scotts combo products with AI's such as the summer guard, you are correct... put it down at a lower than recommended rate, not enough AI for insect control... put it down at the recommended rate, too mucn N.

kirk1701
06-24-2009, 06:47 PM
Scotts goes to great lenghts to ensure their stuff is as foolproof as possible because it is getting applied by people who don't know how to calibrate or use a spreader. Pro products like Lebanon must be applied properly, or they can burn. Scotts spreaders are made for Scotts products. They spread unevenly but that is fine for their ferts... not for pro ferts. For pro products, you need a pro's spreader, and know how to use it safely (burn) ... it isn't rocket scince, but for instance.... if you don't close the chute on a Scotts spreader, it sort of clogs.... do that with an Earthway spreader and Lebanon fert, it will lay a load of fert down when you turn, and burn the crap out of the lawn.

As far as the Scotts combo products with AI's such as the summer guard, you are correct... put it down at a lower than recommended rate, not enough AI for insect control... put it down at the recommended rate, too mucn N.

Thanks Whitey4, due to being "paranoid", not having the right spreader, and the not knowing how to use it nor know how to calculate and all the other variables I assume it's best for me to stick with Scott's, put it down lighter and just buy extra AI (and what does that stand for AI?) purchased separately.

That being said, what insect control you recommend and what grub control you recommend? I'm seeing Beatles starting to fly and if what I read here is correct when you start to see the Beatles fly is the time to put down the grub control. :drinkup:

Thanks.

Whitey4
06-24-2009, 09:42 PM
Thanks Whitey4, due to being "paranoid", not having the right spreader, and the not knowing how to use it nor know how to calculate and all the other variables I assume it's best for me to stick with Scott's, put it down lighter and just buy extra AI (and what does that stand for AI?) purchased separately.

That being said, what insect control you recommend and what grub control you recommend? I'm seeing Beatles starting to fly and if what I read here is correct when you start to see the Beatles fly is the time to put down the grub control. :drinkup:

Thanks.

AI is the active ingredient.... pendimethelin in Scotts step one for crabgrass prevention fotr example. Scotts calls it Halts. You want to use that? Buy straight "Halts" and keep your weed control program seperate from your fert program.

As for poison... I don't use it very often. If a lawn has a known history of grub problems, or if a large number of flying adults are around, then I would apply grub control HERE when the adults are flying. That for me is around Aug 1. I won't use insect control unless I diagnose the problem first... not a believer in preventative poison applications.

quiet
06-24-2009, 10:36 PM
Scotts goes to great lenghts to ensure their stuff is as foolproof as possible because it is getting applied by people who don't know how to calibrate or use a spreader.

As far as the Scotts combo products with AI's such as the summer guard, you are correct... put it down at a lower than recommended rate, not enough AI for insect control... put it down at the recommended rate, too mucn N.

You're contradicting yourself here. I've used a Scotts combo product maybe twice in 7 years, but the times I did use it, I recall calculating it out for the proper AI, and found that it also corresponded with about a 1 lb/1000 sf N rate. One product I recall worked out to 1.15 lbs N/1000 sf

Now if you're claiming that a 1 lb N rate is too high in some instances on Northern turf grass, OK. But Scotts markets nationwide. Your turf, your region may need less N at time when the AI needs to be put down at a full rate.

And that's why I disdain combo products in the first place; plus you tend to get two cheap products in one.

kirk1701
06-24-2009, 11:14 PM
AI is the active ingredient.... pendimethelin in Scotts step one for crabgrass prevention fotr example. Scotts calls it Halts. You want to use that? Buy straight "Halts" and keep your weed control program seperate from your fert program.

As for poison... I don't use it very often. If a lawn has a known history of grub problems, or if a large number of flying adults are around, then I would apply grub control HERE when the adults are flying. That for me is around Aug 1. I won't use insect control unless I diagnose the problem first... not a believer in preventative poison applications.

We'll as for the grub/insect control, I want it for two reasons 1. the Beatles eat just about everything in the garden and we keep sevin on them for that but I feel if I put a grub control down, less Beatles and 2. The dam moles just run me ape in the spring, now I know their main source of food is earthworms but killing off what grub I can does minimize them too. Plus, I got seven of the victor traps this year in my arsenal and the moles seem to know there is danger present so they stay away now :laugh:

Sounds like I'm sticking with scotts, what do I want for grub? Probably put down another app of deminsion also.

LushGreenLawn
06-25-2009, 06:30 AM
We'll as for the grub/insect control, I want it for two reasons 1. the Beatles eat just about everything in the garden and we keep sevin on them for that but I feel if I put a grub control down, less Beatles and 2. The dam moles just run me ape in the spring, now I know their main source of food is earthworms but killing off what grub I can does minimize them too. Plus, I got seven of the victor traps this year in my arsenal and the moles seem to know there is danger present so they stay away now :laugh:

Sounds like I'm sticking with scotts, what do I want for grub? Probably put down another app of deminsion also.

So, your going to start a commercial lawncare program using scotts homeowner products?:hammerhead: