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View Full Version : Teaser Z spray Vs T300 video


Rayholio
06-24-2009, 06:45 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oHpdG2oN2E

Tell me what you think! (the straight uphill / downhill tip tests will likely be included in the final review.)

Real Green
06-24-2009, 06:59 PM
Pretty sweet. Looking forward to more videos!
Posted via Mobile Device

rcreech
06-24-2009, 07:48 PM
Pretty sweet. Looking forward to more videos!
Posted via Mobile Device

That's cool Ray!

You are really taking this serious!

Good job!

jbturf
06-24-2009, 08:21 PM
yes that is pretty cool

however,
if you were actually operating the Z with the front casters turned sideways
like that in such conditions, you would probably be flyingdown the slope

unless maybe you decided to stop on the slope and do a zeroturn manuever for some reason

Rayholio
06-24-2009, 08:55 PM
yes that is pretty cool

however,
if you were actually operating the Z with the front casters turned sideways
like that in such conditions, you would probably be flyingdown the slope

unless maybe you decided to stop on the slope and do a zeroturn manuever for some reason

You're right.. but that's a different test.. this was basicly done to show center of gravity, and inhearant ability to stay upright..

it also proves a point.. the extremely narrow stance of the T3k does not make it 'tippy' as many (including myself) believed before experiencing it.

americanlawn
06-24-2009, 09:00 PM
Ray -- That was awesome! Thank you so much for the time & effort you are taking -- to show what folks want to know. (and I realize you are not finished with your full review)

Anxious to see how each unit performs on slopes "while applying products" -- cuz going straight up & down hills is not always possible. I realize the Z & the T have the same "spray width", but... which one can safely steer (with one hand) -- especially if the lawn is not flat? How about turning on slopes? Wet grass is also an important factor to consider. How do you transport each unit? (need a trailer for one of these?). How easy is it to "spot spray" around edges while driving each machine? How many hands & feet would it take to steer a unit while doing this? How 'bout the deflector shield? >>> huge issue with one --not the other? How common is it to cause turf damage on slopes or on wet turf? How "friendly" is one unit to not leave "ruts" in lawns? Which one holds hills better? I don't care if it's up & down or sideways.

rscvp, thanks for all you do. Looking forward for more info & comparisons. :waving:

TurfRyder
06-24-2009, 09:02 PM
yes that is pretty cool

however,
if you were actually operating the Z with the front casters turned sideways
like that in such conditions, you would probably be flyingdown the slope

The key is to keep as much weight off the casters as possible. A couple of weights placed in the back trays goes a long way to giving you some stability. I can take on some serious hills with them. It can be a little scary but you get used to it.

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x220/MasterPlanMan_2007/zspray03.jpg

rcreech
06-24-2009, 09:22 PM
I do a retirement community and will take some "real life photos" next time I am there. I am sure most of you do the same type of hills...but you won't believe it! Scared me to death the first ap and the second was a BREEZE!

Would have NEVER taken my PG on these hills.

Out of 4 acres, about 1.5 is serious hills.

I think this testing is cool...but I test my Z everyday in "real conditions" and it hasn't let me down yet!

Is it better then any other machine? Dunno and don't care...but glad I have one!

If I am on steep hills I keep my rear tanks full and the hopper about 1/3 full.

It is easy!

Rayholio
06-24-2009, 09:32 PM
Hey, COuld I get you to take a level with you, and put it in frame when you take your pics? I'd like to know what angle the hills are at, to see if it corresponds with my machine..

Try to take the pic as straight on profile as possible so I can check it with a protractor, and have it be accurate..

I do a retirement community and will take some "real life photos" next time I am there. I am sure most of you do the same type of hills...but you won't believe it! Scared me to death the first ap and the second was a BREEZE!

Would have NEVER taken my PG on these hills.

Out of 4 acres, about 1.5 is serious hills.

I think this testing is cool...but I test my Z everyday in "real conditions" and it hasn't let me down yet!

Is it better then any other machine? Dunno and don't care...but glad I have one!

If I am on steep hills I keep my rear tanks full and the hopper about 1/3 full.

It is easy!

EVM
06-24-2009, 10:30 PM
The T looks like a nice machine.

rcreech
06-24-2009, 10:44 PM
Hey, COuld I get you to take a level with you, and put it in frame when you take your pics? I'd like to know what angle the hills are at, to see if it corresponds with my machine..

Try to take the pic as straight on profile as possible so I can check it with a protractor, and have it be accurate..

I wasn't planning on getting that technical as I was just going to shoot some video.

I can promise you one thing...I ain't gonna stop and take pics on these hills! :laugh: But I will try and get you some info!

They are wicked!

One thing I might add....

You need to have some weight over your tires and you would do much better with the wider tires on the Z. I know that isn't what you are comparing but that makes all the difference on the Z and hills.

grassman177
06-24-2009, 10:48 PM
that was a very good video review man, thanks for all the effort you put into it, but next time, be safer and have someone else there to assist!

Rayholio
06-24-2009, 11:08 PM
I've talked to lt rich about wider tires... I've disliked these from day one.. but they want like $80 each for better ones.. so....

If they send em, I'll do the testing with the wider tires.. and honestly, the Z will lose with these ball tires.. guaranteed. but that's what the Jr comes with.. so I don't feel that it's unfair.

I wasn't planning on getting that technical as I was just going to shoot some video.

I can promise you one thing...I ain't gonna stop and take pics on these hills! :laugh: But I will try and get you some info!

They are wicked!

One thing I might add....

You need to have some weight over your tires and you would do much better with the wider tires on the Z. I know that isn't what you are comparing but that makes all the difference on the Z and hills.

Rayholio
06-24-2009, 11:09 PM
Thanks for all your support everyone.. It's sorta interesting to film this stuff.. a fun hobby :)

rcreech
06-24-2009, 11:23 PM
I've talked to lt rich about wider tires... I've disliked these from day one.. but they want like $80 each for better ones.. so....

If they send em, I'll do the testing with the wider tires.. and honestly, the Z will lose with these ball tires.. guaranteed. but that's what the Jr comes with.. so I don't feel that it's unfair.

$80....that is nothing if you can do more!

Also...it is my understanding that you can pick what tires you want. Didn't Andy try and talk you into the bigger tires and you didn't want to spend the money?????

Wider tires are always better for better stability!

Rayholio
06-24-2009, 11:37 PM
$80....that is nothing if you can do more!

Also...it is my understanding that you can pick what tires you want. Didn't Andy try and talk you into the bigger tires and you didn't want to spend the money?????

Wider tires are always better for better stability!

no.. He didn't try to talk me into buying wider tires, until after I called to complain about its hill performance.. and $160 bucks is a good bit of cash to drop on a brand new machine.. And worse yet, I'll have the old ATV tires just sitting around after that.. no one would want them.. they're useless.

EVM
06-24-2009, 11:40 PM
I guess the T handles bumpy lawns better too? I like the way the T operates, like driving a car. You can drive a car with one hand easy. I wish the best of both of these machines was put together.

rcreech
06-25-2009, 12:00 AM
no.. He didn't try to talk me into buying wider tires, until after I called to complain about its hill performance.. and $160 bucks is a good bit of cash to drop on a brand new machine.

Since I bought my machine I have added a $400 tank aux tank, a $560 independent tank with pump and a $490 foamer.

Guess I must look at it differntly then you!

If I can make like and my job easier...then I will spend the $$$$ necessary.

Rayholio
06-25-2009, 12:58 AM
Aye... Those are add ons.. not fixes

rcreech
06-25-2009, 07:55 AM
Aye... Those are add ons.. not fixes

Nothing is broke, so what are you trying to "fix"?

Wider tires are an option just like everything else the LT Rich offers.

That is why I stated along time ago that there is no such thing as a stock Z Spray. You can customize it to whatever you want....even tank color. :clapping:

Your splitting frog hairs...what is the difference?

Josh.S
06-25-2009, 10:10 AM
I think you should put two bags of fert in the zspray's trays and two bags of fert on top of the tray on the T3000 and see if the results change... :)

americanlawn
06-25-2009, 07:59 PM
IMO adding extra weight (2 bags of fert) is not needed with a T3000. One can do so if needed, but it's not necessary whatsoever. As far as adding the extra weight on Z's, I can see where it would help with traction while operating on slopes/hills. But the problem there is creating a high center of gravity (one of the main selling points of the T3000 is the low center of gravity allowing the safe maneuvering of the unit). Then one has to consider leaving ruts on soft lawns with additional weight.

Conversely, I admire RC's improvements on his Z Intermediate. I would do the same thing as he did. Plus -- he know's his stuff and he knows EXACTLY how to use his Z. Honestly, if RC's unit brings in $150,000 a year....what's a few hundred bucks?? Plus it beats pushing a spreader and/or pulling a hose.

Each machine is only as good as the operator. I don't care what it is. Lot's of fine ride-on guys here. Rabbit, RC, FDlawn, Real Green, (us) :laugh:, and thousands of others. Even TruGreen (I know one week they ordered nearly 90 T3000's alone, but you didn't hear that from me) :laugh:


I think you should put two bags of fert in the zspray's trays and two bags of fert on top of the tray on the T3000 and see if the results change... :)

turf hokie
06-25-2009, 08:36 PM
Each machine is only as good as the operator. I don't care what it is. Lot's of fine ride-on guys here. Rabbit, RC, FDlawn, Real Green, (us) :laugh:, and thousands of others. Even TruGreen (I know one week they ordered nearly 90 T3000's alone, but you didn't hear that from me) :laugh:

Ordering 90 t-3 does not a good operator make:dizzy:

sprayboy
06-25-2009, 09:22 PM
I happened to run into a Trugreen tech at a gas station today, who had a T on a "trailer". He told me that it won't climb hills very easy due to lack of power. He doesn't feel comfortable on hills as he feels like it will tip. I asked him why all the mud on it and his answer was that it was stuck earlier in the day and he was worn out from trying to wrestle it out. All this while he was admiring my z-max.

Young Bros
06-25-2009, 09:55 PM
Nice video Ray. Can't wait for more videos. It will be nice when we can upgrade our PG.

rcreech
06-25-2009, 10:25 PM
Thanks for your kind words Larry! You are giving me way too much credit! :laugh:

Josh,

Good point on the fert.

Due to the dry carryingcapacities of the machine...the Z would have 100# of fert over the rear wheels (the extra fert or liquid if tanks) where the T-3 would have it up on the tray in between the operator and the dry hopper. Probably wouldn't make a lot of difference...but I would test them that way also to see what shows up.

That would definitly change the center of gravity on both machines.

FdLLawnMan
06-25-2009, 11:26 PM
I happened to run into a Trugreen tech at a gas station today, who had a T on a "trailer". He told me that it won't climb hills very easy due to lack of power. He doesn't feel comfortable on hills as he feels like it will tip. I asked him why all the mud on it and his answer was that it was stuck earlier in the day and he was worn out from trying to wrestle it out. All this while he was admiring my z-max.

Well I would disagree. I climb hills no problem and I am very comfortable on hills. As far as getting stuck, if it is muddy enough anything can get stuck. That would have been his fault, not the machines.

rcreech
06-25-2009, 11:31 PM
Well I would disagree. I climb hills no problem and I am very comfortable on hills. As far as getting stuck, if it is muddy enough anything can get stuck. That would have been his fault, not the machines.

:clapping:

Exactly Mike!

sprayboy
06-26-2009, 07:30 AM
I agree.

I am just repeating what a 20 yr exp tech told me.

I have read a few posts on this board saying that they won't get stuck.

Most of us have probably hit those soft spots that don't look that bad that will suck you in. Not fun.

br549oicu8
06-26-2009, 05:48 PM
I love seeing the Trugreen trucks around!!!! They talk folks into starting a program and spending money, and then when the customer sees how much better results our customers get, they switch to us!!! Gotta love those guys!!
Guess I'll look around to see if the local TGers get any new ride-on stuff. Like I said...gotta love those guys!~:rolleyes:

grassman177
06-26-2009, 06:59 PM
i wouldhave to agree with my dad, tg had been a big help in getting us customers!!

Larry, what about me? i am a big ride on user!!!:)

turf hokie
06-26-2009, 08:07 PM
I saw T/G on a large condo next to one we do today. I banged a quick U-Turn when I saw the T-3000 on the property.

I talked to the operator for a couple of minutes. He loves it. Says it will out produce, pull hill better, stick on a hill better and is overall better than a PG. He admired my z but said he had never run one and was happy with the T.

I can say the site that he was on was about 12 acres and he got it done in about and hour and a half slower than I did mine with the z. (He started before me and finished at about the same time) The site is also very hilly and has spots that I guarantee a PG wont go. He had no problem on them, as I dont have a problem on my side with the z.

He did comment that he wished the hopper was larger and he rigged it to go faster. He said it was too slow for him. He took the yellow handles off and replaced it with a pair of vise grips.

I asked him how long it took him to get used to it and he said after running the PG it took him about a day to get comfortable on it and a week to have a good idea of what it would do.

He was real happy with the spray system and spot hose as well.

I test drove one in a parking lot at Valley Green (Tremor's place) and was not all that impressed. But after seeing it in the field I am reconsidering one for the spring. Hell if a T/G tech can do what I saw him doing today and was comfortable with it, why not us too!!!!

They were carrying it on a rack behind a large hippo truck, it was a BIG rack that he said that got from B&B directly. They were using 2 large ratchet straps to tie it down.

Just wanted to throw a little gas on the debate. The more I see the videos here and after what I saw today, I think my business would benefit from the addition of one of these machines as I am so frustrated with my ultras and they are getting older. I would never replace my z-max with one but I think having both in the mix would be tremendous.

americanlawn
06-26-2009, 10:18 PM
IMO T3000's or Z-Sprays are the way to go. Most Z's have more product capacity than T's, but this is not an important issue with our particular company cuz we can spread & 'completely spray' an acre & a half before refilling....which only takes us two minutes to do so. IMO unless Permagreen changes their unit, they will lose market share -- I'm guessing they already have.

I don't want to get into a match re: Z vs T, cuz the T3000 was originally designed to compete with units like Permagreens. But it is now evident that T3000's also offers advantages many Z-Spray owners want. Same spray width, plus can be transported on carrier racks behind a pickup truck. Example: Two LCO's in my town recently bought T's instead of Z's. Main concerns were transportation & handling hills. Both guys demo'd Z's as well as T's. They were impressed with the 'hands-free' thing as well as the 'using one hand to turn ....especially on slopes.

Digital angle meter -- (verified by me). A T3000 will climb slopes as high as 45 degrees (actually a little bit more). No loss of power either. And it safely goes down the same slope in a safe manner. This would be a death wish using a PG.

Z's & T's have similar features regarding great weed kill, 12 foot spray pattern, etc. This is why we consider Permagreen units a thing of the past.