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trailboss
07-01-2009, 12:35 AM
Over the past couple of years I havent used very many well lights due to the problems that I have had in the past with water and fire ants. I am finding myself wanting to use some here and there in my designs but was curious what everybody else was currently using?? Do you like the Par 36 or the MR16 or 11? Which fixture do you find has the best adjustment and durability? I would really like something fairly deep so as not to be looking at the source but I still like a wide beam spread in most cases.
Any input and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Steve

David Gretzmier
07-01-2009, 12:50 AM
I have not installed a par in long time. too many expensive bulbs replaced under warranty was damaging my reputation and pocketbook. Leaves, insects, etc add to the misery. I use wall washers when you really need the floody beams, but mostly 60 degree mr-16's. mr-11's are limited to 30 degrees of flood, and tend to not last as long as mr-16's as a rule. But I do use them on gutter mounts pretty regular.

emby
07-01-2009, 01:02 AM
My experience with well lights so far have been pretty good. I tend to only install in the turf with lots of gravel and piece of pvc about a foot long leading out of the hole for drainage.
Have not used the PAR lamps as I have only used MR 16's. Lots of degrees to play with and wattages.
I am currently working on installing 4 of these into stamped concrete. Conduit is running under the ABS and lots of gravel. The hard part for this application is finding a sono tube that is the same diameter as the ABS. Might have to modify something to create the form for the concrete.
Anyways that's my 2 cents.

Ken

S&MLL
07-01-2009, 01:32 AM
CopperMoons cm360 fits real nice in a 6" sonotube

emby
07-01-2009, 01:39 AM
Thats too funny. That is what I am installing but we measured the brass grate and it was only 5 and three quarters. I was worried that the grate will not cover the hole left by the sono tube. Thanks for the tip I will try it out.

Ken

Lite4
07-01-2009, 02:23 AM
I have not installed a par in long time. too many expensive bulbs replaced under warranty was damaging my reputation and pocketbook. Leaves, insects, etc add to the misery. I use wall washers when you really need the floody beams, but mostly 60 degree mr-16's. mr-11's are limited to 30 degrees of flood, and tend to not last as long as mr-16's as a rule. But I do use them on gutter mounts pretty regular.

Man Dave, I dont' know what kind of pars you have been using but I am getting well over a year on all of mine without any problems at all. I use all GE lamps exclusively on all pars, t-3s, MR16s and 11s. The old tractor light is my preference for washing architecture as I have done the side by sides and it gives a wider, smoother spread than the MRs, especially when you add a lense to it also. Just my preference, I won't knock anybody who uses an MR exclusively though. It is a personal preference and for the way I design the par just works better for me in some instances than the MRs do.

Mark B
07-01-2009, 12:48 PM
I mainly well lights with PARS. I have had bulbs last 2-3 yrs. I do run into every once and a while with the screw on the bulb that will be loose just a little bit. I think the contraction and expansion cause that.

JoeyD
07-01-2009, 03:32 PM
Pars tend to last longer then MR's in my experience......

http://www.uniquelighting.com/product_pages/well_lights.htm

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/lighting/NovaInfinityStar-1.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/lighting/StarGrateInfinityRing.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/lighting/ApplicationShots007.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/lighting/ApplicationShots003.jpg

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/lighting/ApplicationShots006.jpg

JoeyD
07-01-2009, 03:33 PM
Heres the new ROOT Well Light....Lets see the knockoffs copy this!!!

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/lighting/demo375.jpg

Lite4
07-01-2009, 05:10 PM
Whoa!!! That is some aggresive turf grass.

emby
07-01-2009, 05:11 PM
Ok Joey, thats funny.:canadaflag:

Pro-Scapes
07-01-2009, 05:12 PM
I have to yank 15 wells that were swallowed by tree roots. Granted they are 10 yr old nightscaping well lights but they are locked in like concrete among the roots. About 5 inches sticking out of the ground. I thought about just flush cutting them with a sawzall and mulching over it thinking I will do more harm than good getting them out.

Eden Lights
07-02-2009, 12:18 PM
Pars tend to last longer then MR's in my experience......

That was a joke right?:waving:

David Gretzmier
07-02-2009, 03:04 PM
I love the effect of a par 36, but I have had to replace dozens upon dozens under warranty. when I used to install , say, 16 pars on a home, I'd plan on replacing at least 4-6 in the years time before full bulb replacement. I would build in 3 service calls into my original bid to cover service. Par bulbs tend to cost about 2x more than MR's. Mr's are more like one bulb out per install per year, many times none and maybe 2 if they run it all might long. The open par also lends itself to wire corrosion unless you really, really seal those crimp screw ends. also The leaves, roots, etc, what a pain. a fully sealed like Joey's par is great for those close uplighting tree jobs, like a jap maple or dogwood, but the bulb replacement is just too much for me to deal with.

I'd rather see an 80 degree mr-16 and let the par die.

TXNSLighting
07-03-2009, 01:11 AM
Hmmm ive got pars out in the field that are going on 2 1/2 years...Ive replaced more Mr's Than pars actually.

Lite4
07-03-2009, 10:07 AM
Hmmm ive got pars out in the field that are going on 2 1/2 years...Ive replaced more Mr's Than pars actually.

Same here. I use GE on everything and my pars always last longer than the MRs do. The last par I replaced on burnout was burning for about 2.5 years all night long. I thought that was a pretty freakin tough lamp to last that long.

David Gretzmier
07-03-2009, 10:45 AM
oh, I have pars out there that last a long time, but they are the exception, not the rule. given all the negatives, I, like many others have given up on them.

Lite4
07-03-2009, 10:59 AM
Hmmm, I wonder if the atmospheric conditions may play a role here. It seems all the guys from dryer climates dont' seem to have an issue with them and the guys from wetter more humid climates lose them often? The pars are sealed so I am unsure how things like humidity would effect them other than more condensation inside the well at night with heat from the lamp. Perhaps more corrosion on the terminals leading to premature failure. Now that I am in the midwest (more humid) I will have to keep an eye on this and see.

Eden Lights
07-03-2009, 03:29 PM
GE CC 20W BABs at 11-11.5 Volts will do three years easy here running dusk to midnight. Not just a few, ALL. Its a 5,000 hr lamp before voltage drop calculations.

S&MLL
07-03-2009, 06:14 PM
I hate par36's.... Way to much money for 1 non led bulb

David Gretzmier
07-03-2009, 10:32 PM
I've checked voltages on pars til I am blue in the face. It's easy, just flip it over. I've run them yellowish 10.0 to whiter 11.5. I've tried the xelogen, halogen, GE, who cares what you pay, 12 bucks, 20 bucks, and cheapie china ones. I gave up years ago. I'll repeat, great floody beam, MR's can't touch that, but too much leaf/debris and bulb service.

The Lighting Geek
07-04-2009, 02:46 PM
Heres the new ROOT Well Light....Lets see the knockoffs copy this!!!

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/lighting/demo375.jpg

That is some very nice St Augustine. Kikuyu is the most aggressive grass you have every seen. It will grow a 4 to 8" runner in a week! It is a runner type turf/weed than can pretty much choke out all weeds, turf and even chokes out bermuda. It only grows in warmer climates with minimal cold winters. Thank God we don't have it here. It is all over Southern California area.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting
07-04-2009, 05:16 PM
Interesting what you guys 'down there' call grass. We 'up here' have a totally different interpretation!

TXNSLighting
07-04-2009, 06:20 PM
Interesting what you guys 'down there' call grass. We 'up here' have a totally different interpretation!

Ok ill bite...explain.

JoeyD
07-06-2009, 10:53 AM
actually that picture was taken in Florida and those are palm tree roots......GE Par36 Halogen lamps are the best lamps for landscape lighting.... you can argue maintenance and how well lights suck etc etc....but they last a long time properly volted and will take most anything thrown at them........but yet again.....http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb97/ulsjoeyd/deadhorse.gif

David Gretzmier
07-06-2009, 09:43 PM
if I had the funds, I would line up 100 par 36's at 11 volts ( pick any decent lamp), and 100 mr-16's at 11volts ( pick any decent lamp ) . and I would, without hesitation, bet 1000 bucks that the pars will have 2-3 TIMES the bulbs burned out in one years usage. my best guess, the mr's will have 5 bulbs out, and the pars over 20 out of 100. This is not about beating a dead horse. this is about right and wrong. and no one can convince me that pars out last mr's. that is just wrong information, period.

Lite4
07-07-2009, 02:16 AM
if I had the funds, I would line up 100 par 36's at 11 volts ( pick any decent lamp), and 100 mr-16's at 11volts ( pick any decent lamp ) . and I would, without hesitation, bet 1000 bucks that the pars will have 2-3 TIMES the bulbs burned out in one years usage. my best guess, the mr's will have 5 bulbs out, and the pars over 20 out of 100. This is not about beating a dead horse. this is about right and wrong. and no one can convince me that pars out last mr's. that is just wrong information, period.

Come on Dave, just because you have had a bad experience with one type of lamp doesn't mean we all have. If you went with the GE pars only, you probably would not have had such a bad experience. My pars always outlast my MR's. However, I use GE's on everything so I can't speak to what pars other manus put out and the ones you have used.

niteliters
07-07-2009, 09:05 AM
Over the past couple of years I havent used very many well lights due to the problems that I have had in the past with water and fire ants. I am finding myself wanting to use some here and there in my designs but was curious what everybody else was currently using?? Do you like the Par 36 or the MR16 or 11? Which fixture do you find has the best adjustment and durability? I would really like something fairly deep so as not to be looking at the source but I still like a wide beam spread in most cases.
Any input and/or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Steve

I can imagine those fire ants are a real issue, however, the par 36 gives you a brush to paint with that most of your competition won't use. i haven't had your trouble with early outage. I imagine that can be frustrating. We use tham on almost every job. I have found, in our region, that over the years the sealed beam performs better that the bi pin. when the lamp turns off it's going to want to draw in moisture, If it's underground there's moisture all around. It seems, in our soil conditions, no matter how many drain pipes, how deep the pea gravel, that hole from time to time will fill up with water for short periods of time, bi pin socket assembly's fall apart...not the sealed beam. you also have the option of incandescent, halogen, xelogen, and L.E.D. I haven't found a quality l.e.d. yet but it's getting better

JoeyD
07-07-2009, 10:34 AM
if I had the funds, I would line up 100 par 36's at 11 volts ( pick any decent lamp), and 100 mr-16's at 11volts ( pick any decent lamp ) . and I would, without hesitation, bet 1000 bucks that the pars will have 2-3 TIMES the bulbs burned out in one years usage. my best guess, the mr's will have 5 bulbs out, and the pars over 20 out of 100. This is not about beating a dead horse. this is about right and wrong. and no one can convince me that pars out last mr's. that is just wrong information, period.

thats a pretty strong statement..........But I would take that bet......

Eden Lights
07-07-2009, 05:49 PM
thats a pretty strong statement..........But I would take that bet......

20 Watt GE PAR vs. 20 Watt GE MR CC and I will add 1k to the pot, but if I win I want audio from Nate saying MRs are superior to Pars? Who is escrowing the prize money and audio?????

JoeyD
07-07-2009, 06:02 PM
A good Par thread always brings Eddie out! LOL You boys get your change and lamps together and let me know when your ready.........LOL

Spilllight
07-08-2009, 05:03 PM
I agree with using par's. I'll use MRs on particular things but I've used open wells proped up to pond surface with water splashing the bottom of the bulb and it would last as long as others out in the property. Sylvania is not fire sealed though they last along time they may come apart or the reflector will ware off. I've seen the reflector ware on MRs too. Definately socket failure is more of a pain than replacing a bulb. I guess that depends on the fixture though.