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Whitey4
07-08-2009, 10:28 PM
Using a rented sod cutter, cut and remove (with wheelbarrel) 2.2k of mostly dead sod, get it into a dumpster on day one, do soil prep on day two (half day) and lay 2.2k of sod on day 3?

I'm about to find out... am I nuts or what?

turfcobob
07-08-2009, 11:14 PM
Make sure the sod cutter blade is sharp. Dead roots tend to wrap on dull blades making the cutter hard to use. How are you going to pick up cut sod? Little hint....Cross cut the sod at 90 degrees. You can then use a flat nosed shovel and a wheel barrow to quickly pick up the sod. Take a vert i cut or dethatcher over the raw dirt to break it up into fine level dirt. Apply a good fert on the dirt and water it in real good so the soil is very wet on the edge of being mud. This will wash some of the fert into the soil. Let it set overnight and then lay the new sod into the nice wet soil with food in it. Walk over, drive over or roll the new sod so it presses down tight to the very wet soil. The roots will take off after the fert in the muddy under layer for a quick knit to the soil. The sooner you can get the sod to move into the new soil the better ou chance for keeping the sod. I have done this a number of times and it has worked well for me.

Turfcobob

GravelyGuy
07-08-2009, 11:16 PM
I think you should be able to no problem, but I've thought that before and been up **** creek standing there thinking OMG what was I thinking??:laugh:

Whitey4
07-08-2009, 11:30 PM
Make sure the sod cutter blade is sharp. Dead roots tend to wrap on dull blades making the cutter hard to use. How are you going to pick up cut sod? Little hint....Cross cut the sod at 90 degrees. You can then use a flat nosed shovel and a wheel barrow to quickly pick up the sod. Take a vert i cut or dethatcher over the raw dirt to break it up into fine level dirt. Apply a good fert on the dirt and water it in real good so the soil is very wet on the edge of being mud. This will wash some of the fert into the soil. Let it set overnight and then lay the new sod into the nice wet soil with food in it. Walk over, drive over or roll the new sod so it presses down tight to the very wet soil. The roots will take off after the fert in the muddy under layer for a quick knit to the soil. The sooner you can get the sod to move into the new soil the better ou chance for keeping the sod. I have done this a number of times and it has worked well for me.

Turfcobob

Very grateful for the tips.... I actually fried this lawn myself. Thread in the pesticide forum... so I am laying new KGB at my expense. Honest mistake, but my fault. I have a dethatcher.... would it be wise to add some peat when I dethatch the soil? Would that help the new sod to adhere any? I will use a starter fert, and was thinking to add some peat and starter fert, then dethatch, soak it, and lay sod.

This will be the weekend from hell.... cut sod and remove on Saturday, soil prep on Sunday, lay on Monday, and at the age of 54, I guess I will find out what is left in the tank, and attempt to do it solo. :weightlifter: (I hope)

bigslick7878
07-09-2009, 07:17 PM
More detail about how you plan on getting rid of and loading up the old sod.

Wheelbarrow to what? Is a dumpster on site?

Day 1 if a dumpster is on site and you have to just wheel it in and dump it could be done but it is going to be hard labor.

Day 2 what is going to be involved in the soil prep?

Day 3 No problem.

Runner
07-09-2009, 08:13 PM
I like the idea of running the sodcutter both ways. We've always just cross cut it with an edger (longer rolls) and rolled it up, but that would work too, I guess.

fl-landscapes
07-09-2009, 09:00 PM
if your cutting the sod out.....what are you dethatching? I think you can do what you outlined in your original post by yourself no problem for 2.2K One tip I would give you is after you use the sod cutter use a pitch fork to pick up the sod not a shovel and put it in the wheel barrow. It allows a lot of the soil to fall back to the ground and will be much lighter and easier on the back. The new sod will take better in the loose soil that falls back as well.

bigslick7878
07-09-2009, 09:29 PM
I like the idea of running the sodcutter both ways. We've always just cross cut it with an edger (longer rolls) and rolled it up, but that would work too, I guess.

I see no point in doubling your workload for no reason.

One pass with the sod cutter should be all you need,unless I am missing something here.If the depth is set correctly no need to do it twice.

fl-landscapes
07-09-2009, 10:19 PM
I see no point in doubling your workload for no reason.

One pass with the sod cutter should be all you need,unless I am missing something here.If the depth is set correctly no need to do it twice.

I agree two passes will only give you more pieces to pick up.

Whitey4
07-09-2009, 10:22 PM
I have a ten yard dumpster ordered... if it's more than that, it will mean some loads in my pickup. It will be wheelbarrel and manual labor.

I think what Turfco Bob was saying is that dethatching the soil after the old sod is removed will loosen the soil up and help the new sod to root faster in less compacted soil. I have a dethatcher, and this would not take much time to do. I am wondering if adding some peat moss at this stage might help also rooting. This would be my soil prep... some peat, dethatched into the soil and some starter fert.

I might run the sod cutter in a cross pattern every 5 feet or so, just to keep the length and weight of the old sod strips managable.

Frankly, I am scared chitless about this project. I don't lay sod as a service, never used a sod cutter, and never laid sod on an entire lawn before. I'm trying to find a helper for the old sod removal. That is the day that worries me most.

bigslick7878
07-09-2009, 10:39 PM
I have a ten yard dumpster ordered... if it's more than that, it will mean some loads in my pickup. It will be wheelbarrel and manual labor.

I think what Turfco Bob was saying is that dethatching the soil after the old sod is removed will loosen the soil up and help the new sod to root faster in less compacted soil. I have a dethatcher, and this would not take much time to do. I am wondering if adding some peat moss at this stage might help also rooting. This would be my soil prep... some peat, dethatched into the soil and some starter fert.

I might run the sod cutter in a cross pattern every 5 feet or so, just to keep the length and weight of the old sod strips managable.

Frankly, I am scared chitless about this project. I don't lay sod as a service, never used a sod cutter, and never laid sod on an entire lawn before. I'm trying to find a helper for the old sod removal. That is the day that worries me most.

10 yds will be plenty,nothing to worry about there.

The sod will take if it is watered properly,I mean I guess you can run the dethatcher over it it cant hurt but not necessary.

Laying sod is about as basic as it gets,have no fear.

Make sure you roll it afterwards.

Whitey4
07-11-2009, 07:54 PM
10 yards turned out to be just about right... got maybe 9+ yards of debris, but I cut the sod as shallow as I could, tomorrow I will dethatch it to remove/ turn in any leftover roots and get a clean level soil surface to work with.

I did end up getting some help. Good thing, what with the sprinkler heads and other areas the sod cutter could not get into having to spade a fair amount of turf out, and wheel barreling, I think it would have taken me 12 hours today and maybe another 5 or 6 tomorrow.

I got about 11 man hours from a 19 year old who is in pretty good shape, and my 26 year old nephew. They ran out of gas (or maybe motivation) long before I did... I had to empty the last load myself, and this stinkin dumpster did NOT have an end door, we had to throw the debris in over the top.

Pretty bad when a 54 year old who started working at 6:15am can outlast a 19 year old who started at 9am and a 26 year old who started at 10am. We finished up about 3:15.

So, in retrospect, no freakin way I could have done this solo in 12 hours. I can hump with the best of them, know how to pace myself for the long haul, but I was very happy to have the extra help!

The sod cutter.... pita machine. Next time I know to do at least 2 passes on the perimeter first. That allows for turning much more easily. The cut turf gets all bunged up in the blade unless you have a clean clear area to turn around.

Thanks to all for the advice and suggestions. Monday will be the bad day... laying 2.3k of sod solo. I'm up for it.... I can outwork the youngsters! :weightlifter:

bigslick7878
07-11-2009, 10:32 PM
10 yards turned out to be just about right... got maybe 9+ yards of debris, but I cut the sod as shallow as I could, tomorrow I will dethatch it to remove/ turn in any leftover roots and get a clean level soil surface to work with.

I did end up getting some help. Good thing, what with the sprinkler heads and other areas the sod cutter could not get into having to spade a fair amount of turf out, and wheel barreling, I think it would have taken me 12 hours today and maybe another 5 or 6 tomorrow.

I got about 11 man hours from a 19 year old who is in pretty good shape, and my 26 year old nephew. They ran out of gas (or maybe motivation) long before I did... I had to empty the last load myself, and this stinkin dumpster did NOT have an end door, we had to throw the debris in over the top.

Pretty bad when a 54 year old who started working at 6:15am can outlast a 19 year old who started at 9am and a 26 year old who started at 10am. We finished up about 3:15.

So, in retrospect, no freakin way I could have done this solo in 12 hours. I can hump with the best of them, know how to pace myself for the long haul, but I was very happy to have the extra help!

The sod cutter.... pita machine. Next time I know to do at least 2 passes on the perimeter first. That allows for turning much more easily. The cut turf gets all bunged up in the blade unless you have a clean clear area to turn around.

Thanks to all for the advice and suggestions. Monday will be the bad day... laying 2.3k of sod solo. I'm up for it.... I can outwork the youngsters! :weightlifter:

Gonna be another long day....2.3k should take every bit of 8 hours.

Stillwater
07-12-2009, 04:17 AM
Using a rented sod cutter, cut and remove (with wheelbarrel) 2.2k of mostly dead sod, get it into a dumpster on day one, do soil prep on day two (half day) and lay 2.2k of sod on day 3?

I'm about to find out... am I nuts or what?

...........................

Whitey4
07-12-2009, 09:00 AM
Gonna be another long day....2.3k should take every bit of 8 hours.

Well, yesterday without help I was prepared to do 12 hours and another 8 hours today if I had to. I am hoping I get get the sod installed tomorrow, but I have Tuesday morning available to finish the job up.

The more I thought about the cutting and removal, the more I realised I needed some help. I paid the 19 year old, but my nephew refused any money. My sis was there too, and despite my objections, did some work, made the lunch run, etc. Nice to have a good family.

All 3 of them tanked... lol, but the old man was ready to work till datk if I had to!

DiyDave
07-12-2009, 07:50 PM
Just saw this thread today. The way we used to cut sod on the farm in the old days was to open the field, by making a bunch of stripes through the field, at a predetermined distance, depending on the width of the sodcutter. On a 12" sodcutter, we would cut the stripe every 9'. That way, when we changed directions, and cut perpendicular to the stripes, we got a square yard per roll. This was in the day of lots of labor, and few machines. Even today, I still cut a little Zoysia with the Kisscutter, just did 400 SF, cut it and laid it in about 4-5 hrs, but I had the ASV RC30 lifting 4-1/2 yard rolls, all I did was to roll them out!:laugh::laugh:

RAlmaroad
07-13-2009, 06:21 AM
If the sod is already dead, why remove it? That's taking away a lot of valuable top soil. Top soil takes a lot of time to develop with organic material. If the sod is already dead. why not just till it, rake off the dead grass and roots and trash. You'd be helping the environment by keeping valuable topsoil out of the landfill and making a smaller footprint on the earth.

DiyDave
07-13-2009, 07:00 AM
If the sod is already dead, why remove it? That's taking away a lot of valuable top soil. Top soil takes a lot of time to develop with organic material. If the sod is already dead. why not just till it, rake off the dead grass and roots and trash. You'd be helping the environment by keeping valuable topsoil out of the landfill and making a smaller footprint on the earth.

Is it just me, or is anybody else tired of seeing this crappy excuse used to justify any and everything? I'm not in business to crusade about the environment, I am in business to make money, that way I will still be in business tomorrow, when the crusade will have changed to stopping global cooling, or another cause du joir!:laugh::laugh:

RAlmaroad
07-13-2009, 10:16 AM
We all have to live with our decisions. I like to think that whatever I've done in this life will not cause detrimental effects on the earth for my grandchildren. If making enough money in order to stay in business to make more money is our only goal in life, then we would miss most of life. We're all in this together. You also misspelled "du jour".

phasthound
07-13-2009, 10:31 AM
Is it just me, or is anybody else tired of seeing this crappy excuse used to justify any and everything? I'm not in business to crusade about the environment, I am in business to make money, that way I will still be in business tomorrow, when the crusade will have changed to stopping global cooling, or another cause du joir!:laugh::laugh:

Why is someone who advises an economical land care approach being attacked. Keeping the soil with the organic matter of the dead sod in place will help provide a healthy lawn.

whoopassonthebluegrass
07-13-2009, 11:40 AM
Why is someone who advises an economical land care approach being attacked.

Why is someone b1tching at him to completely change his method of attack when things are already planned and set up? :hammerhead::hammerhead::hammerhead:

DiyDave
07-13-2009, 01:30 PM
We all have to live with our decisions. I like to think that whatever I've done in this life will not cause detrimental effects on the earth for my grandchildren. If making enough money in order to stay in business to make more money is our only goal in life, then we would miss most of life. We're all in this together. You also misspelled "du jour".
Money is the principle goal, to deny that is absurd. if you are worried about your grandchildren, I would suggest you vote out the bunch in Washington, now. I personally would take the dead sod back to my compost pile, and save the dump fees at the landfill, and provide me some free compost in the future, kinda like social security, if you get the analogy. Finally, I'm no Frenchman, not even a good speller in English, never claimed to be. But I do know how to get my point across.:waving:

Albery's Lawn & Tractor
07-13-2009, 02:27 PM
If the sod is already dead, why remove it? That's taking away a lot of valuable top soil. Top soil takes a lot of time to develop with organic material. If the sod is already dead. why not just till it, rake off the dead grass and roots and trash.

Thats how we do it all the time. Heck we could have done that jobe in less then a day. Till everything up, rake out dead grass clumps, till again, then start raking smooth, roll the yard (I always roll the yard before we ever lay sod, makes the end result as smooth as a babies a$$), then lay sod. Again this is just my method but it works great for us and we stay busy doing sod just simply by referrals.

phasthound
07-13-2009, 08:14 PM
Money is the principle goal, to deny that is absurd. if you are worried about your grandchildren, I would suggest you vote out the bunch in Washington, now. I personally would take the dead sod back to my compost pile, and save the dump fees at the landfill, and provide me some free compost in the future, kinda like social security, if you get the analogy. Finally, I'm no Frenchman, not even a good speller in English, never claimed to be. But I do know how to get my point across.:waving:

Excellent points about using the sod to make compost, and voting out the bunch in DC. I've advocated in favor of that for decades, don't care what party they are in.

But having money as the principle goal is exactly why our country is in this mess. Ethics have been laid to waste. Blaming the politicians does not relieve us of individual responsibility. How we choose to act in our personal lives and how we run our businesses really does matter to those we care for.

I'm fully in favor of the American entrepreneur (that is what I am) and I also believe that there needs to be a balance of corporate power (greed) and governmental regulation (control).

Oh, wait we were talking about lawn renovation. :)

Use the waste product (dead sod, excess soil, etc.) to your best advantage. Till it in, compost it; just don't waste it.

DiyDave
07-13-2009, 08:26 PM
Excellent points about using the sod to make compost, and voting out the bunch in DC. I've advocated in favor of that for decades, don't care what party they are in.

But having money as the principle goal is exactly why our country is in this mess. Ethics have been laid to waste.

I'm fully in favor of the American entrepreneur (that is what I am) and I also believe that there needs to be a balance of corporate power (greed) and governmental regulation (control).

Oh, wait we were talking about lawn renovation. :)

Use the waste product (dead sod, excess soil, etc.) to your best advantage. Till it in, compost it; just don't waste it.
While I agree that ethics have been laid to waste, it is the ethics of those in Washington, like barney frank, and chris dodd, that have caused this mess. They enacted the laws that forced banks to loan people money, who had no assets or income, to pay them back. The goal of accumulating wealth is what this country is based on, nothing wrong, there.
I would like to apologize to the original poster of this thread, for having it end up as a political argument, when RAilmaroad took it political, I couldn't let that garbage go unanswered. To the OP, sorry it headed this way, I see nothing wrong with your approach to the job, only thing different I would have done is to rake the dead stuff off with a harley rake, and haul it back to my compost pile, after that, its all just laying sod, and the only thing to remember there is GREEN SIDE UP!:laugh::laugh:

RAlmaroad
07-13-2009, 09:43 PM
DiyDave: It's unfortunate that you think of caring for the earth as being garbage. It's the earth, air, water and soil that sustains you. Where in my post did I ever take the subject political? If anyone hijacked the thread it was these word by you: "
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAlmaroad View Post
If the sod is already dead, why remove it? That's taking away a lot of valuable top soil. Top soil takes a lot of time to develop with organic material. If the sod is already dead. why not just till it, rake off the dead grass and roots and trash. You'd be helping the environment by keeping valuable topsoil out of the landfill and making a smaller footprint on the earth."
DiyDave's words: "Is it just me, or is anybody else tired of seeing this crappy excuse used to justify any and everything? I'm not in business to crusade about the environment, I am in business to make money, that way I will still be in business tomorrow, when the crusade will have changed to stopping global cooling, or another cause du joir!" Your words--not mine.

Notice that I did type your name correct!

Whitey4
07-13-2009, 10:34 PM
Fellas, I removed less than I added. Yes, some spots were torched, but it was spotty and mixed in with some healthy turf. I cut as little off as possible, dethatched the rest, and dirt that came with the sod was more than what I removed. The spots of healthy turf had to be cut if the lawn was to be resodded, no getting around that.

In any case... sod arrived at 10:15, took a half hour lunch, half hour dinner and quit at 9pm. Got the front done, and most of the backyard, about 2000 sq foot installed today solo. I have to finish it tomorrow, with another 200 sq foot or so of peices that need to be cut.

Not too bad for someone who never laid sod before I think.

Whitey4
07-13-2009, 10:45 PM
Thats how we do it all the time. Heck we could have done that jobe in less then a day. Till everything up, rake out dead grass clumps, till again, then start raking smooth, roll the yard (I always roll the yard before we ever lay sod, makes the end result as smooth as a babies a$$), then lay sod. Again this is just my method but it works great for us and we stay busy doing sod just simply by referrals.

I note the words "us" and "we". Apples and oranges... I am a small solo who is not in the sod biz. I do however do a lot of seeding renovations. Different animal. Roundup, dethatch, rake, top dress with soil and compost. I remove very little when I do seeding renovations... this was different, completely, and something I never attempted before.

Having this thread hijacked is something that the organic people at this site do often. They have their own forum for that nonsense, but that obvously is too limiting for their appetite for attack and hijack.

DiyDave
07-14-2009, 07:09 AM
DiyDave: It's unfortunate that you think of caring for the earth as being garbage. It's the earth, air, water and soil that sustains you. Where in my post did I ever take the subject political? If anyone hijacked the thread it was these word by you: "
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAlmaroad View Post
If the sod is already dead, why remove it? That's taking away a lot of valuable top soil. Top soil takes a lot of time to develop with organic material. If the sod is already dead. why not just till it, rake off the dead grass and roots and trash. You'd be helping the environment by keeping valuable topsoil out of the landfill and making a smaller footprint on the earth."
DiyDave's words: "Is it just me, or is anybody else tired of seeing this crappy excuse used to justify any and everything? I'm not in business to crusade about the environment, I am in business to make money, that way I will still be in business tomorrow, when the crusade will have changed to stopping global cooling, or another cause du joir!" Your words--not mine.

Notice that I did type your name correct!
The highlighted section is what I was referring to. If you don't see the politics in it, then you are blind. Furthermore, I typed your name, as it appears in my screen, roadapple!:laugh::laugh:

RAlmaroad
07-14-2009, 07:35 AM
"when RAilmaroad took it political"....Talk about being blind...Namecalling..."roadapple"...I rest my case.
Sorry Whitey, but you did well in that job. Just keep that sod as wet as possible and make sure that it is in good contact with the soil. We have to water every day for a couple of weeks because of the extreme sandy soil leaching out the moisture. Maybe your soil has a little more clay than ours but keeping those roots wet is super important.

Whitey4
07-14-2009, 03:28 PM
Well, one man can lay 2.2k of sod in a day and a half, even with lots of cutting. However, I am totally shot and pretty freakin sore. Taking the afternoon off, and will do my Tuesday and Wednesday mowing accounts tomorrow. I just am totally shot. *trucewhiteflag*

At least this nightmare is behind me.... and it was a nightmare.

Took about 14 hours to lay it, cut it and cleanup. It looks good, as I took extra time to bend the ends of the sod back to level (they would sort of bend up in the air and make lousy looking seams if I didn't) and now I have to hope it all roots well. Customer is irrigating as much as he can. Each zone is getting 40 minutes in the morning, 40 minutes in the evening, as no rain is forecast.

Thanks for those who offered advice. It was helpful.

cgaengineer
07-14-2009, 05:06 PM
If the sod is already dead, why remove it? That's taking away a lot of valuable top soil. Top soil takes a lot of time to develop with organic material. If the sod is already dead. why not just till it, rake off the dead grass and roots and trash. You'd be helping the environment by keeping valuable topsoil out of the landfill and making a smaller footprint on the earth.

This is what I was thinking. I had some sod die and I power raked it and laid new sod right on top. I didn't do it because I was lazy or didn't want to put it in a landfill, I did it because it was easy, quick and the only way I knew of using the tools I had at the time.

Whitey4
07-14-2009, 05:20 PM
This is what I was thinking. I had some sod die and I power raked it and laid new sod right on top.

So, you would power rake both dead and healthy sod, and lay new sod down on top of that? If you expect new sod to root over dethatched healthy turf, well... I think that would be a very bad approach. First off, the power rake would remove dead thatch easilly, while leaving the root system and thatch under the healthy turf intact. That IMO, is all wrong.

The new sod will not root where the healthy turf was... no soil for root development. The lawn would also be as lumpy as the Catskills. The detatcher would remove a lot where the turf was dead, but very little where it was still healthy.

If I had my druthers, I would have spayed the whole thing, kill it all, and then dethatch, but there was no time to wait for a 2 week kill. This nonsense about dethatching a lawn with dead spots and spots of healthy turf are frankly, ridiculous. The new sod needs a clean soil base to root, period.

cgaengineer
07-14-2009, 05:35 PM
If you would have seen the area I resodded you would have been amazed. There was nothing left to the old sod when done except dirt, it was also smooth when finished.

I'm not arguing with you, I am just telling you what I would have done and it would have saved you some time and money. To each his own.

We also have bermuda around here...it can just about grow on concrete provided there is enough water.

RAlmaroad
07-14-2009, 05:45 PM
Whitey: Did you get to roll the sod? If not, suggest to you client to use a riding lawn mower to go over it one time letting the tire track just touch. You don't need a huge person doing this. The weight of the tractor is almost enough. We've had the best success with warm season turf rooting this way.
5 pallets a day is a good day for even two men with trimming. You've got a lot of fortitude there.
How would you feel looking at two tractor/trailer loads with rain in the forecast. Big big day even for a crew of 12 who only spoke Spanish. Got it all down from 8:30 in the morning till about 7:00. Made KFC happy also.
Take some photos for your own use--prospective clients and maybe just some insurance.
What did you put down anyway? Bluegrass?

White Gardens
07-14-2009, 07:02 PM
Just found this thread Whitey, glad it turned out well for you.

The only thing that might have saved you time would have been to rent a Toro Dingo and soil cultivator. It would have shredded the turf and buried any of the big chunks leaving a perfect seed bed.

http://www.toro.com/professional/sws/loaderattach/ground/23102.html

Glad you got it done though. Big sod jobs can be worse than going to the dentist.Thumbs Up

Whitey4
07-14-2009, 08:05 PM
OK, thanks for getting back on topic here.... I am no sod expert, and while I have my own opinions on it, am open minded and very willing to listen to other strategies.

cgae: After a shallow sod cutter pass, the areas of previously healthy turf had what I will call root and thatch "lumps". They were also high spots. Dethatching with a delta blade ripped them up pretty good. Then I was able to rake debris, and get a decent soil base to lay sod on.

Remember, this is a damge repair job, not a sod job for profit. I was not about to bring in all sorts of soil and compost unless the customer was willing to pay for that, including leveling.

I wanted to do it right, but drew a line between damage repairs and improvements. I was not about to bring in amendemnts and relevel as a part of my turf repair costs.

I just wanted to resod, and have it take, without lumps that were not there previously. I did some minimal leveling, but that was it.

As far as time and money... I rented the sod cutter, own a power rake. I was not about to rent anything else for this job. That would be $ out of pocket. Sod is not my biz... and I don't have the equipment for it.

If you can get to just dirt, then I'd say whatever techique and equipment you used is a fine approach. Even with a sod cutter, a delta reel double pass dethatching, I still had spots I manually broke up with a shovel.

RA: Yes, not gonne be humble here.... this job as a solo was an absolute mother-bear. Last night the customer turned on the backyard floodlights for me, it was dark. I did not cut any corners, and did not rush the job. I turned sod farm cut ends in for a better seam. If I wanted to just get it done, I could have cut 4 hours off my own labor. I'm just not built that way. Maybe I cut one corner.... I didn't roll it. That would have meant another rental and more time. I stomped on the chit. :laugh:

If it were a for profit job, yes, I would have rolled it, would have brought in a yard of soil, leveled it perfectly.... but it wasn't, and I did not do a "patch" repair job as most would have done.... I did the freakin lawn.

WG: It was on my dime, and cost 1800 bucks. If it were a for profit job, then I would be willing to rent more equipment, but it wasn't, every dollar spent came out of my pocket. I wanted to do it as best I could, do it well enough, do it right, but even another hundred dollar rental would have meant me and the beer dog not eating for a week. I cannot live without beer.... the dog can catch squirrels....:laugh:

bigslick7878
07-14-2009, 08:43 PM
You did it the way it was supposed to Whitey,its just the typical lawnsite "I could have done it better" responses.

Whitey4
07-14-2009, 09:09 PM
You did it the way it was supposed to Whitey,its just the typical lawnsite "I could have done it better" responses.

Bro.... thanks. You made my day, and I needed some support.... the whole thing has been like the nightmare on Elm street. I ante'd up, accepted blame, did the fix, far more than most would have done, and it's over. Thanks for your advice.

Good news is.... one of my fert n squirt only accounts left a message. I was scared chit there was another problem. I had looked at her lawn after this bizarre occurance, it was fine. Did a drive by this morning.... lawn still looked great. Turns out her mower crapped out, and she wants the full monty now. Some renovation work too. Just goes to show what this one event did to me.... the phone rings, I expect disaster, I'm diving under the bed. I guess I'm a little shaken, shell shocked from this experience.

Your supportive words are welcome, and I'm grateful.

White Gardens
07-14-2009, 09:21 PM
WG: It was on my dime, and cost 1800 bucks. If it were a for profit job, then I would be willing to rent more equipment, but it wasn't, every dollar spent came out of my pocket. I wanted to do it as best I could, do it well enough, do it right, but even another hundred dollar rental would have meant me and the beer dog not eating for a week. I cannot live without beer.... the dog can catch squirrels....:laugh:

The wheeled dingo and cultivator would have saved you the expense of the dumpster, unless it was cheap for you to dispose of the sod.

You then would have cut out half the manual labor and had the help (wouldn't of been burned out from prep work) when it counted most... laying sod. You also would have cut a day out of the job, and you would have been well on your way back to your regular schedule.

If it was more economical in your approach, then so be it, just trying to look at it from a different angle. I'm just glad you got through it with positive results.

You did what you had to do.

My question is, what happened to have to do a renovation, do you have that info posted somewhere else ???

Whitey4
07-15-2009, 11:08 AM
The wheeled dingo and cultivator would have saved you the expense of the dumpster, unless it was cheap for you to dispose of the sod.

You then would have cut out half the manual labor and had the help (wouldn't of been burned out from prep work) when it counted most... laying sod. You also would have cut a day out of the job, and you would have been well on your way back to your regular schedule.

If it was more economical in your approach, then so be it, just trying to look at it from a different angle. I'm just glad you got through it with positive results.

You did what you had to do.

My question is, what happened to have to do a renovation, do you have that info posted somewhere else ???

There is a tread about triclopor started by me in the pesticide forum that explains why a sod reno was needed at my cost.

The dumpster did come in handy, and the organic people will freak out again... I had 200 sq ft of leftover sod, and I don't have any place to compost that sort of volume. It went into the dumpster. Keep in mind, the rental rate on the dumpster was based on the fact that all the contents can be used by a local company that makes... compost. This stuff won't go into some landfill, it will get recycled.

The prep work wasn't what killed me... it was laying 2.2k of sod solo with a lot of cutting that has left me barely able to walk.

Swapped out my blades this morning to gators, put the mulching plate on for the summer, and have stalled long enough... time to start another 10-11 hour day of mowing to get caught up, as I have to do two days of my mow schedule today in one day. By the end of today, after I finish up, this will then be completely behind me.

cgaengineer
07-15-2009, 11:38 AM
There is a tread about triclopor started by me in the pesticide forum that explains why a sod reno was needed at my cost.

The dumpster did come in handy, and the organic people will freak out again... I had 200 sq ft of leftover sod, and I don't have any place to compost that sort of volume. It went into the dumpster. Keep in mind, the rental rate on the dumpster was based on the fact that all the contents can be used by a local company that makes... compost. This stuff won't go into some landfill, it will get recycled.

The prep work wasn't what killed me... it was laying 2.2k of sod solo with a lot of cutting that has left me barely able to walk.

Swapped out my blades this morning to gators, put the mulching plate on for the summer, and have stalled long enough... time to start another 10-11 hour day of mowing to get caught up, as I have to do two days of my mow schedule today in one day. By the end of today, after I finish up, this will then be completely behind me.

Glad you got it done, hopefully you can take it easy this weekend.

Whitey4
07-15-2009, 05:15 PM
This took more out of me than I thought. By 3 o'clock this afternoon, I got a headache, felt ill, dizzy and still extremely exhausted, not to mention pretty sore too. I can say this, the older you get, the longer the recovery time gets. Hopefully by tomorrow, this 54 year old will be fully back on the saddle. Even with a short day, I caught up a bit, but am still a few lawns behind schedule.

Glad I have this site for advice, and even to vent a little bit... conversing with others in the biz is a great outlet. Thanks again you guys.

bigslick7878
07-15-2009, 07:38 PM
Hey Whitey this guy Proscapes says he can lay 500 ft in about 40 minutes.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=280860

Amazing isn't it?

Didn't you say that 2.2k took you about 10-11 hours?

I bet those legs are aching my friend,moving that amount of weight in a day is KILLER!!

2.5k is the most I have done solo in a day and I couldn't feel my legs when I was done.

Oh well its over now live and learn......the hard way.

DiyDave
07-15-2009, 08:03 PM
This took more out of me than I thought. By 3 o'clock this afternoon, I got a headache, felt ill, dizzy and still extremely exhausted, not to mention pretty sore too. I can say this, the older you get, the longer the recovery time gets. Hopefully by tomorrow, this 54 year old will be fully back on the saddle. Even with a short day, I caught up a bit, but am still a few lawns behind schedule.

Glad I have this site for advice, and even to vent a little bit... conversing with others in the biz is a great outlet. Thanks again you guys.
Its good to do a sod job every now and then, to see why you don't do them everyday! While you were doing this one, I cut 400 sf of zoysia sod, with a kisscutter, rolled it up and hauled it about 7 miles, and laid it out. Time wise, I took about 2 hrs to cut it, and 2hrs to lay it, but I rolled it into 4-1/2 yard rolls, and moved it with an ASV RC30, no heavy lifting for me. I used to work at a sod farm, so I know a few shortcuts, but you still get winded, doing it yourself on an 85+ degree day, plus, I got about $950 for my efforts, which is always a good incentive!:waving:

Whitey4
07-15-2009, 08:28 PM
Hey Whitey this guy Proscapes says he can lay 500 ft in about 40 minutes.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=280860

Amazing isn't it?

Didn't you say that 2.2k took you about 10-11 hours?

I bet those legs are aching my friend,moving that amount of weight in a day is KILLER!!

2.5k is the most I have done solo in a day and I couldn't feel my legs when I was done.

Oh well its over now live and learn......the hard way.

Remeber, I've never laid sod before! I started to lay it around 10:30, took a half hour or so lunch, took a 45 minute break at dinner and worked till 9pm. So, that was about 9 hours, then another 3 of just laying and cutting the next day. So, closer to 12 hours. Then there was dumping 200 sq foot back into the dumpster, and cleanup.

I could definitely have done it faster, but like I said, to get good seams, I had to unbend the ends to get them to lay flat. The seams are tighter than... well, you know. I also used a sickle shaped hand knife for cutting. I'm sure there are faster ways to cut, but I doubt any of them can measure up to the precision of using a knife. I had to resharpen it after every few cuts.

This is a typical small lawn here... about 3k of turf, and I replaced about 2.2 of it. Lots of rounded walkways, a rounded patio and many beds. Lots of cutting. The lot was also in an irregular shape... so more cutting.

Just laying sod with little or no cutting.... that is easy as heck. I could slap down 3k in an 8 hour day with no cutting easy.... but around here, almost half the rolls need to be cut one way or another.

This was the first time I ever really felt my age creeping up on me. In the past, a good night's sleep and I might have been sore, but could go all day the next day. Today, I learned what exhaustion was. My body just started to shut down.

Sure am glad this disaster is in the rear view mirror.

bigslick7878
07-15-2009, 08:32 PM
Remeber, I've never laid sod before! I started to lay it around 10:30, took a half hour or so lunch, took a 45 minute break at dinner and worked till 9pm. So, that was about 9 hours, then another 3 of just laying and cutting the next day. So, closer to 12 hours. Then there was dumping 200 sq foot back into the dumpster, and cleanup.

I could definitely have done it faster, but like I said, to get good seams, I had to unbend the ends to get them to lay flat. The seams are tighter than... well, you know. I also used a sickle shaped hand knife for cutting. I'm sure there are faster ways to cut, but I doubt any of them can measure up to the precision of using a knife. I had to resharpen it after every few cuts.

This is a typical small lawn here... about 3k of turf, and I replaced about 2.2 of it. Lots of rounded walkways, a rounded patio and many beds. Lots of cutting. The lot was also in an irregular shape... so more cutting.

Just laying sod with little or no cutting.... that is easy as heck. I could slap down 3k in an 8 hour day with no cutting easy.... but around here, almost half the rolls need to be cut one way or another.

This was the first time I ever really felt my age creeping up on me. In the past, a good night's sleep and I might have been sore, but could go all day the next day. Today, I learned what exhaustion was. My body just started to shut down.

Sure am glad this disaster is in the rear view mirror.

How exactly did you get in this mess in the first place again??

DiyDave
07-15-2009, 08:36 PM
Remeber, I've never laid sod before! I started to lay it around 10:30, took a half hour or so lunch, took a 45 minute break at dinner and worked till 9pm. So, that was about 9 hours, then another 3 of just laying and cutting the next day. So, closer to 12 hours. Then there was dumping 200 sq foot back into the dumpster, and cleanup.

I could definitely have done it faster, but like I said, to get good seams, I had to unbend the ends to get them to lay flat. The seams are tighter than... well, you know. I also used a sickle shaped hand knife for cutting. I'm sure there are faster ways to cut, but I doubt any of them can measure up to the precision of using a knife. I had to resharpen it after every few cuts.

This is a typical small lawn here... about 3k of turf, and I replaced about 2.2 of it. Lots of rounded walkways, a rounded patio and many beds. Lots of cutting. The lot was also in an irregular shape... so more cutting.

Just laying sod with little or no cutting.... that is easy as heck. I could slap down 3k in an 8 hour day with no cutting easy.... but around here, almost half the rolls need to be cut one way or another.

This was the first time I ever really felt my age creeping up on me. In the past, a good night's sleep and I might have been sore, but could go all day the next day. Today, I learned what exhaustion was. My body just started to shut down.

Sure am glad this disaster is in the rear view mirror.
A machete of good quality steel will stay sharp enough for a day's work, as long as the sod doesn't have rocks in it.

Whitey4
07-15-2009, 09:15 PM
How exactly did you get in this mess in the first place again??

Look in the pesticide forum.... a thread titled Triclopor started by me.... it''s all there, and a very bizarre story, if I say so myself.

Dave, this sod did have some rocks, not too much.... but with the knife I had, I found cutting easier with regular resharpening. Probably a lousy knife, but it seemed to work ok when I kept it sharp. It had a curve like a machete. A machete would have been much better me thinks.

I want NO part of sodding as any regular part of my biz.... that is work that requires a crew, no sane man working as a solo would do this sort of install vountarilly IMO.