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View Full Version : Problems with Prosecutor??


Heidi J.
07-12-2009, 09:57 AM
Anyone use Prosecutor (Lesco Round-up)? Went and did a few valve sites a month ago, and had to re-do alot of areas. The areas were where we used Kabota and Mules and also hand canned. So, it wasn't an agitation issue or the new boom. Basically it came down to the product.. Any feed back would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Heidi J.

RigglePLC
07-12-2009, 10:22 AM
Heidi,
Lesco(JDL) doesn't make it. They buy it private label--probably from Nu-farm. But it will not work if not mixed and calibrated correctly. Look at the registration number. Lesco's number is 10404, as a private label seller. I think Nu Farm uses the number 228 as a manufacturer. Or maybe that is the old Riverdale number.

foreplease
07-12-2009, 11:34 AM
Sorry, I've only ever had good results. I use it in a hand sprayer all the time. I have done two large area renovations in the last year where it was run through a boom two passes each time, two times, two weeks apart. Hand sprayed some surviving nimblewill a few days after second application but germination of new weeds was the larger problem and it became time to get on with planting.

Heidi J.
07-12-2009, 12:04 PM
Heidi,
Lesco(JDL) doesn't make it. They buy it private label--probably from Nu-farm. But it will not work if not mixed and calibrated correctly. Look at the registration number. Lesco's number is 10404, as a private label seller. I think Nu Farm uses the number 228 as a manufacturer. Or maybe that is the old Riverdale number.

Thanks.. it was mixed according to label.. We bought it last year because RU sky rocketed. I will take a look when I get in tomorrow.

Heidi J.
07-12-2009, 12:13 PM
Sorry, I've only ever had good results. I use it in a hand sprayer all the time. I have done two large area renovations in the last year where it was run through a boom two passes each time, two times, two weeks apart. Hand sprayed some surviving nimblewill a few days after second application but germination of new weeds was the larger problem and it became time to get on with planting.

That's the thing.. we were killin' mostly grass. Went back and it was thriving:hammerhead: I wonder if the product was old.. :confused:

I will say my new guy mixed a little heavy on the blue dye.. we will now refer to him as the smurf:laugh:

Thanks alot.. I guess I will have to look into it some more.

mngrassguy
07-12-2009, 12:43 PM
Were your tanks clean? ANY dirt will "nutralize" Prosecutor or RU including dirty water.

Heidi J.
07-12-2009, 01:29 PM
Were your tanks clean? ANY dirt will "nutralize" Prosecutor or RU including dirty water.

Yep.. Been doing this along time (30 years), never had a problem like this. At first we thought it was the new boom, but then we noticed areas that were hand canned, so the only thing we could come up with is the product.:confused: This is the first time we have ever used Prosecutor and not RU..

foreplease
07-12-2009, 04:25 PM
Wish I had something that helped you but I don't. I enjoy your posts. It does sound like a problem isolated to that container of that product. Is there any left you could do a side by side test with against RU? I'm sure figuring it out will make you feel a little better.

bug-guy
07-12-2009, 04:41 PM
could any one taken some product and diluted the container. i had an employee who was trusted with the chemical key and was stealing product and topping off w/water.
after his departure i would always tell guys i would rather give you some free chem for personal use than have them steal and wreck good product and mess up production work. couldn't understand how the product went bad so fast after opening. i have had gly products at home for years and still worked

Heidi J.
07-12-2009, 05:57 PM
Wish I had something that helped you but I don't. I enjoy your posts. It does sound like a problem isolated to that container of that product. Is there any left you could do a side by side test with against RU? I'm sure figuring it out will make you feel a little better.

Yeah.. I guess that is the best thing to do. Needless to say.. we have alot of it! So I want to isolate the problem.. now! :dizzy:

Thanks!:waving:

Heidi J.
07-12-2009, 06:06 PM
could any one taken some product and diluted the container. i had an employee who was trusted with the chemical key and was stealing product and topping off w/water.
after his departure i would always tell guys i would rather give you some free chem for personal use than have them steal and wreck good product and mess up production work. couldn't understand how the product went bad so fast after opening. i have had gly products at home for years and still worked

Well, while I think that guy is an a$$ for doing that, thank goodness he didn't switch some stuff on you. A competitor of mine had that happen.. burned up about 30 lawns using RU instead of trimec!! I felt so bad, I don't wish that on any one.. well, except maybe TG

We have had stuff laying around for years too with out a problem;)

Thanks for the imput:waving:

DUSTYCEDAR
07-12-2009, 06:15 PM
DID YOU ADD STICKER TO IT?
i always add sticker spreader to it and it works great and mine is at least 5 years old and still works
have you sprayed a test patch with it yet?
did it rain right after you applied it?

Heidi J.
07-12-2009, 06:29 PM
DID YOU ADD STICKER TO IT?
i always add sticker spreader to it and it works great and mine is at least 5 years old and still works
have you sprayed a test patch with it yet?
did it rain right after you applied it?

We add sticker.. no rain and haven't done the test yet.. will do tomorrow. Like I said.. we are not new to this, but this is the first time we have used this product, that's why I wondered if anyone else had any problems.

Thanks :waving:

turf hokie
07-12-2009, 08:28 PM
I have not used it in a good while, but never had problems at the higher rates. I usually went out at around 4 oz per k. I am not sure what rate you ended up using but when I worked at Lesco I know a bunch of guys used to complain that it did not do so good at the 2 oz rate.

bug-guy
07-12-2009, 09:18 PM
i had a freind who i talked into using manor for broadleaf weeds. he bought and used it and had me look at the lawn 10 days later everything he sprayed died! was blaming me for talking him into it.... turns out he had an employee use his truck the day before and emptied his 2.5 gal water jug to hold some mixed prosecutor pro. so my buddy mixed the manor with prosecutor not water.

lifetree
07-12-2009, 09:26 PM
... when I worked at Lesco I know a bunch of guys used to complain that it did not do so good at the 2 oz rate.

Sounds like some first hand knowledge here ... Heidi, you said you mixed it to label, here it sounds like you may need to increase that !!

Think Green
07-12-2009, 09:27 PM
Heidi,
I don't use JDL Lesco products, but do use Cornerstone Plus, as it comes from the co-ops here at around 39.00 a gallon. It is manufactured by Windield Solutions.!
This is the first year of using this product because last year we used Glyphos-Extra and the cost rose, thus the co-ops changed suppliers for the farmer's.
Upon purchasing this stuff this year, the agent told me that last year, a large batch of Chinese Glyphosate entered into our markets that were totally useless and didn't kill anything.!! After that, the sales of round-up plummeted down here and other brands merged into the market.
A couple of weeks ago, one my competitors applicator's stopped me to inquire about the use of our "Target 6" MSMA plus!! He showed me in two separate unopened containers that the consistency of the product was, in fact, different in color and smell.
He did so by taking the sealed plastic off the opening to prove his point. I told him that we haven't had issues yet, but this competitor sprays hundreds of thousands of acres a year all over the county.
I don't think that it is an ingredient issue, it is the inert ingredient product that is the main issue. We don't know what in the hell, these companies are putting in their to offset the cost of shipping and manufacturing.
Back to the issue of your problem, our Conerstone Extra, the label gives us % mixture kill ratio's and we are having to double that dose to make it work for us. This is with the adjuvants included. HHMMMMM?
Our 2% normal rate mixtures are working better at the 5% rate. So there are those subtle differences.!! I have used the Grade A round-up max and had the same responses.
This is with backpacks, that are cleaned out, fresh water, and tracer dye.
Because we use tracer dye's we increase the mixture as it states on the label that these colorants by Becker Underwood may cause reduced affects.
We add the Blue colorants to the mix as visual inspection for the customer only and to reduce missed weeds and less call backs.

bug-guy
07-12-2009, 10:24 PM
Spray Solution
Amount of LESCO PROSECUTOR PRO
Desired Volume 1/2% 1% 1 1/2% 2% 5% 10%
1 Gal 2/3 oz 1 1/3 oz 2 oz 2 2/3 oz 6 1/2 oz 13 oz
2 tablespoons = 1 fluid ounce
For use in backpack, knapsack or pump-up sprayers, it is
suggested that the recommended amount of this product be
mixed with water in a larger container. Fill sprayer with the
mixed solution.

as you can see the rate is 2/3 to 13 oz per gal

it was explained to me buy monsanto that the 2% rate was good for beds and areas of higher maintance(irrigated)
the higher rates are for non-irrigated ares like ditches and other hard to kill places

most people hear use 2 oz per gal
i had a guy using 13 oz per gal and weeds were returning in 2-3 weeks

bug-guy
07-12-2009, 10:34 PM
Upon purchasing this stuff this year, the agent told me that last year, a large batch of Chinese Glyphosate entered into our markets that were totally useless and didn't kill anything.!! After that, the sales of round-up plummeted down here and other brands merged into the market.


alot of gly knock off were made in china (bring the prices down)
china had no govt. regulations on manufacturing.
hence knock off toothpaste with anti-freeze in it(does any one remember that)
here if the labels say 42 % it's checked
china started to regulate and they people stop make gly and went to making something else. and the prices started to go up.
supply and demand.
awhile back 60 min showed exspensive golf clubs being made in china or korea. after the vendor rep left the company ran off thousands more of the same clubs. golf clubs, purses you name and they knock it off

RigglePLC
07-13-2009, 08:06 AM
Well Heidi,
can you compare the suspect lot with an authentic jug? Same color? Same Odor? Same viscosity? Also, the Dept of Agriculture in Michigan inspects products from time to time to see if fertilizer is up to grade, probably they do that also for gly and other products. Talk with them. Also--it is hard to find--but probably some states have public records of agricultural product testing. They may reveal problems of low test percentages in other states. Can anybody find such records? Let us know what you find.

Heidi J.
07-13-2009, 12:00 PM
I have not used it in a good while, but never had problems at the higher rates. I usually went out at around 4 oz per k. I am not sure what rate you ended up using but when I worked at Lesco I know a bunch of guys used to complain that it did not do so good at the 2 oz rate.

He said he was mixing a little hot.. not sure what the mix was for sure, I believe he was mixing 2 quarts per acre.. Thanks for the imput!

Heidi J.
07-13-2009, 12:02 PM
i had a freind who i talked into using manor for broadleaf weeds. he bought and used it and had me look at the lawn 10 days later everything he sprayed died! was blaming me for talking him into it.... turns out he had an employee use his truck the day before and emptied his 2.5 gal water jug to hold some mixed prosecutor pro. so my buddy mixed the manor with prosecutor not water.


:hammerhead:YIKES!!:)

Heidi J.
07-13-2009, 12:04 PM
Sounds like some first hand knowledge here ... Heidi, you said you mixed it to label, here it sounds like you may need to increase that !!

Yeah.. like I said he mixed it a little hot. Crazy..

Runner
07-13-2009, 01:59 PM
He said he was mixing a little hot.. not sure what the mix was for sure, I believe he was mixing 2 quarts per acre.. Thanks for the imput!

I think there in lies your problem... It is going on WAY to light for a moderate foliage kill. Let's look at it this way. 2 quarts per acre....
32 oz. per 43560 sq. ft.. This amounts to
1.36 oz./M.. Essentially, 32 oz. is only enough to do about 11M (at the rate of 3 oz./M,...the rate that I use).
Even at 2.5oz./M, it is only enough to do 12 - 13 M. You are mixing it 3 to 4 times lighter than what you need to be.
you go much lighter than what you are mixing it, and you don't have a nonselective herbicide, ...you have a growth regulator (which believe it or not what glyphosate was originally formulated for).:)

turf hokie
07-13-2009, 02:52 PM
I think there in lies your problem... It is going on WAY to light for a moderate foliage kill. Let's look at it this way. 2 quarts per acre....
32 oz. per 43560 sq. ft.. This amounts to
1.36 oz./M.. Essentially, 32 oz. is only enough to do about 11M (at the rate of 3 oz./M,...the rate that I use).
Even at 2.5oz./M, it is only enough to do 12 - 13 M. You are mixing it 3 to 4 times lighter than what you need to be.
you go much lighter than what you are mixing it, and you don't have a nonselective herbicide, ...you have a growth regulator (which believe it or not what glyphosate was originally formulated for).:)

Joe good explanation except that 2 quarts would be 64 oz. which would be 1.47 oz per k

Heidi J.
07-13-2009, 05:05 PM
Spray Solution
Amount of LESCO PROSECUTOR PRO
Desired Volume 1/2% 1% 1 1/2% 2% 5% 10%
1 Gal 2/3 oz 1 1/3 oz 2 oz 2 2/3 oz 6 1/2 oz 13 oz
2 tablespoons = 1 fluid ounce
For use in backpack, knapsack or pump-up sprayers, it is
suggested that the recommended amount of this product be
mixed with water in a larger container. Fill sprayer with the
mixed solution.

as you can see the rate is 2/3 to 13 oz per gal

it was explained to me buy monsanto that the 2% rate was good for beds and areas of higher maintance(irrigated)
the higher rates are for non-irrigated ares like ditches and other hard to kill places

most people hear use 2 oz per gal
i had a guy using 13 oz per gal and weeds were returning in 2-3 weeks

Well Heidi,
can you compare the suspect lot with an authentic jug? Same color? Same Odor? Same viscosity? Also, the Dept of Agriculture in Michigan inspects products from time to time to see if fertilizer is up to grade, probably they do that also for gly and other products. Talk with them. Also--it is hard to find--but probably some states have public records of agricultural product testing. They may reveal problems of low test percentages in other states. Can anybody find such records? Let us know what you find.


Actually, everything seemed fine with it. Without question, JDL is taking back and replacing:) Thanks for all the input!!

Heidi J.
07-13-2009, 05:11 PM
I think there in lies your problem... It is going on WAY to light for a moderate foliage kill. Let's look at it this way. 2 quarts per acre....
32 oz. per 43560 sq. ft.. This amounts to
1.36 oz./M.. Essentially, 32 oz. is only enough to do about 11M (at the rate of 3 oz./M,...the rate that I use).
Even at 2.5oz./M, it is only enough to do 12 - 13 M. You are mixing it 3 to 4 times lighter than what you need to be.
you go much lighter than what you are mixing it, and you don't have a nonselective herbicide, ...you have a growth regulator (which believe it or not what glyphosate was originally formulated for).:)


Hmm.. very interesting. I will have to check the exact rate and get back to you.. He is out of town today.. so I haven't had time to talk much to him. I am going to grab the label as well..

Thanks, I appreciate all the advice:waving:

americanlawn
07-13-2009, 06:51 PM
Huge ditto with Runner (way to go bud) ---- we've used Prosecutor (thanks LESCO) & Roundup Pro for years. Same use rates. We never use a spreader/sticker either. Always a 100% kill. We always mix in some 3-way (at a low rate) as well -- this way you can quickly see if you missed any areas. Keep in mind that certain target weeds require the higher rate of gly. With BWC, you can begin to see results in less than 24 hours. Gly always takes several days to notice a difference.

Bottom line: With Gly, it's always best to mix it too strong rather than not strong enough. IMO This avoids resprays.

Runner
07-13-2009, 11:50 PM
Joe good explanation except that 2 quarts would be 64 oz. which would be 1.47 oz per k

Hoooly MACKeral! What planet was I on! I wasn't even figuring the MIXING formula right! (certification 101):rolleyes::hammerhead::laugh:

LOL...Maybe I better just turn to the "glug" method!:dizzy::drinkup: Heidi, I sincerely apologize for the misinformation,...and it is very uncharacteristic of me. I had the right idea,..just th wrong numbers. I had my mind on a few other things at the time, and was taking a call for Operation Greencare at the time...I DO remember that.....:)

greendoctor
07-14-2009, 03:00 AM
Its all about knowing the target weeds. I know a 2 % Glyphosate solution will kill most escaped turf grasses and grassy weeds, but not all broadleaves. If I need to have everything dead the first time, that is why the Garlon 4 is added. Does not take much either. If I need sedges gone in one shot, Certainty is added to the mix. Note that these cute mixes are never used around ornamentals. Only on noncrop areas and turf renovations.

foreplease
07-14-2009, 04:59 AM
I was sitting here after work last night reading this thread and had only scrolled down as far as your post and thought 'something looks off here.' Punching it into my desktop calculator I scrolled down further and was going to write something like "I get 1.46, but right idea" - the tape is still sitting here as the last thing done on the calculator. And I was thinking how did he get a tenth of an ounce different than what I got using half the ounces - and whether or not I even wanted to point it out. Then I saw turf holke had weighed in and had caught it. So I was real surprised, as I kept reading - while thinking Heidi J. had said it had been mixed according to label but this is the first numbers we have seen - to see americanlawn patting you on the back and thought 'well he had to have seen hokie's reply too and while I can see overlooking your answer it's hard to fathom how he could say "way to go bud" after also seeing hokie's.' I thought 'I'm staying the he11 out of this, I'm not the first to catch it and now we're not even in agreement (apparently) on how to divide one number by another.'

So, I laughed out loud at your remark below and agree that it was uncharacteristic of you.

I don't think I posted anything in that thread a couple weeks ago about the person working on an i-Phone application for mixing pesticides that would contain rates and info for all labels. However, I remember feeling I would not be interested and thinking "I only trust my own figures since I am the one responsible when these things come out of the nozzle" but these kinds of mental mistakes are what I had in mind.

In any event, welcome back - hope you had a nice trip!


Hoooly MACKeral! What planet was I on! I wasn't even figuring the MIXING formula right! (certification 101):rolleyes::hammerhead::laugh:

LOL...Maybe I better just turn to the "glug" method!:dizzy::drinkup: Heidi, I sincerely apologize for the misinformation,...and it is very uncharacteristic of me. I had the right idea,..just th wrong numbers. I had my mind on a few other things at the time, and was taking a call for Operation Greencare at the time...I DO remember that.....:)

Runner
07-14-2009, 12:44 PM
LOL...Yeah,...I think American's "Way to go Bud" was just for the basic lookout FOR the rates; not the wonderful genius mathematics that I "so blessed" this thread with.:rolleyes::laugh:
Even now,...I am hungry, diggin' in to my lunch, so if I mess up again, please understand.:)

jlouki01
07-15-2009, 03:14 PM
It's very very slow. What rate / gal were you using?